You want, you ask upfront, direct and straightforward lah.
Continues from yesterday’s posting, ‘Pesanan Persekutuan Kristian M’sia kepada gereja-gereja berhubung PRU’. Please revert for url link, pdf and screenshot of Bishop Ng Moon Hing’s letter to Malaysian churches and the country’s Christians.
The Bishop interprets the Bible’s message regarding the duty of a Christian. He asserts that “Christians have not only been granted rights of leadership but also the responsibility of stewardship (of the Earth)”.
And that’s why even though Chinese Christians are a minority and Buddhists are the Chinese majority in Malaysia, yet it is the Christians who lead the community. There! Mystery solved.
The reason is not because Buddhists are less bossy. The real reason is because God granted his Christians “the rights of leadership”.
Bishop Ng cites the following verses in the Bible (Matthew, chapter 5, verses 13-15):
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
Imagine if we were to take verse 13 and replace the word ‘salt’ with the word ‘BN’.
“But if the BN loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.”
Wink.
Two verses preceding the ‘salt of the earth’ verse is Matthew, chapter 5, verse 11:
“Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
“Righteousness” is Hannah Yeoh’s favourite word. Her blog slogan is “Righteousness exalts a nation”.
Whining about “persecution” kinda reminds me of Chan Lilian (Lim Guan Eng’s special officer) who tweeted about persecuted Christians and who was questioned twice by the police in their investigation into her possible sedition.
The succeeding verses in Matthew extort Christians to be “righteous” (chapter 5, verses 16-20). The preacher sounds like a politician and the politician sounds like a preacher. In some specimens, you get 2-in-1.
And here is the Bishop holding a Bersih T-shirt … he claims in his letter that “CFM (of which he is chairman) is not politically motivated nor is it endorsing any one political party”.
Wink and nudge.
The Christian Federation of Malaysia comprises:
- National Evangelical Christian Fellowship (NECF)
- Council of Churches of Malaysia (CCM)
- Roman Catholic Church
“In terms of our vision for a better Malaysia, CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priorities — A nation guided by the ethics of respect for human dignity.”
Cross refer to Lim Guan Eng whose Malaysian First speech said, ‘“DAP submits that being Malaysian should depend on certain universal values we share and subscribe, focusing particularly on democracy, freedom, justice, integrity and human dignity.”
The CFM letter also uses the words “democracy, freedom, justice” – but okay lah, after all the Bishop and the DAP sec-gen are both hostage to the same white man tradition.
And to the stock-in-trade words employed in motherhood statements. Other stock Christian phrases include “we’re all brothers and sisters”, “we’re full of love” (but ya’all, unlike us, are only full of hate and venom), “we’re one people”, “everyone are children of God”, yadda, yadda.
Bishop Ng encourages Christians “to use the power of the vote to elect a government that will ensure justice with equity and the well-being of our nation”.
In terms of their vision for a better Malaysia, CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priority:
- A nation where extremism of all kinds is rejected and quickly curtailed. Racial and religious bigotry, manipulation and lies that have now come to define the social sphere, the print media and political posturing must end immediately.
Allow me to fill in the blanks. “Racial bigotry” — reject Umno! — “manipulation and lies that have now come to define the social sphere — curtail BTN! “”manipulation and lies that have now come to define the print media” — Ganyang Utusan!
CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priority:
- “A nation free of corruption” — ABU! ABU! ABU! — “putting in place strengthened state and public institutions whose members conduct themselves with integrity, transparency and accountability“. SelC-A-T (Competency, Accountability, Transparency).
CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priority:
- A nation that works towards the fair and equitable distribution of wealth and ensuring well-being for all, regardless of citizenship status, ethnicity or creed.
“Regardless of ethnicity” (?) Just like Papa and Mama DAPSter browbeating how everybody must be colour blind and beyond race just as their Firster children are.
CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priority:
- Every citizen and every community should be empowered and enabled to pursue economic activity and achieve advancement duly and fairly supported by the government where needed and necessary without favour or discrimination and without being overly or unfairly supported by the state.
Sounds to me like a call to do away with the NEP.
CFM encourages Malaysian Christians to think about the following priority:
- A nation where language and education are de-linked from political expedience.
Yessss, let’s bring back English and mission schools!!
Helen Ang 
The only righteousness I can associate with Hannah Yeoh and DAP is “self-righteousness”, which is just as bad as hypocrisy!
I hope the Church is aware that SELCAT refers to “jual pussy”, i.e. prostitution and the mushrooming of massage parlors / brothls in Pakatan states. Just ask Ronnie Liu…
“The CFM letter also uses the words “democracy, freedom, justice” – but okay lah, after all the Bishop and the DAP sec-gen are both hostage to the same white man tradition.”
whats wrong with this white man tradition?????
or u think fhe 3 values applies only to white man. we need not follow? what then should we follow? values ala KKK’s? or nazi maybe? you might say they are white men too,,,,i give up,
Justice would be fairly universal but the application of it varies. The Taliban, for example, would in their own mind hold that what they’re meting out is the best justice there is.
Democracy as I’ve pointed out before comes from the Greek words ‘demos'(people) +’kratos'(power). The
MalaccaSeremban DAP secretary talks about “Athenian principles“, and Guan Eng’s similar vocabulary derives from his mission school upbringing and outlook.Please read Pak Ard’s comment on the same topic in previous posting regarding “teras negara” which has a bearing on our discussion.
Personally I’ve no issues with the concept of democracy but when the bishop makes such a political appeal, then he must not forget the type of government that this country has — which is a constitutional monarchy.
See the citizenship (naturalization) pledge in the first schedule of the FedCon. It says: “… and I do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to his Majesty the Yang Di-Pertuan Agong …”.
Unless the structure of Malaysia is radically revamped, then the DAP/evangelists charging around like bulls armed with their Christian-White Man/Western Colonizer values are setting up a clash of civilizations with all that is already in place, i.e. despite that we have non-Malay elected MPs & Aduns, there is nonetheless the bureaucracy which is Malay-Muslim and the Sistem Raja-Raja Melayu.
Ditto Freedom, same plank of discussion as Democracy. There is the slow burn approach like trying to make the bureaucracy evolve into a more ethnically representative body. But read the Bishop’s letter again carefully and digest what he’s advocating and what he desires to be the outcome.
We do not have unfettered freedom to do and say as we like, and therefore the word should not be bandied about lightly as rhetoric for the political mileage of DAP. It is most hypocritical of the opposition to tout freedom when at the same time, they cannot even guarantee that non-Muslims will be free of hudud.
helen, but at the same time the far right people here claim the pakatan will turn malaysia into a chinese communist republik state led by lim guan eng, or something like that. so which is which?
in any case, youre making the bishops statement into an issue, a mountain of a molehill. ditto with other articles where you claim christians are doing this or doing that to ‘kena’ the muslims… it feeds the prejudices of some readers here, like moths to a lightbulb
so let me ask, why do you want to steer things into some sort of muslim vs christian issue in malaysia?
Dave, when the word ‘komunis’ is used against the Kim regime, it connotes ganas, bengis and Bintang Tiga. It recalls a race history where their own older relatives in the kampung were brutalized when the communists – in effect – took over, i.e. during the brief interregnum following the Japanese surrender in WWII before order was restored.
‘Komunis’ would not conjure up an abstract Marxian theory of capital and labour, or of statecraft (i.e. practised previously in ‘real’ communist states like Cuba or behind the Iron Curtain). B’cos the People’s Republic of China is ostensibly a communist country, the word becomes linked, whether consciously or nor, to all the prejudices held against the Chinese.
The behaviour of DAPsters is doing everything to entrench these anti-Chinese prejudices.
On your accusation that [ I ] “want to steer things into some sort of muslim vs christian issue in malaysia”. Hullo! The arson and church-bombings occurred before I started blogging at end-July 2011.
Your question should really be directed to the Christians and the Pakatan pollies whom they worship.
On the other hand, I do not want the evangelicals to drag the rest of us (Buddhists, Hindus, etc) into the crusade that they’re waging.
And yes, the word “crusade” was used by Kim Guan Eng in his 2011 Wesak Day message. Only in typical DAPster fashion, he accused Perkasa of “perang jihad” against the minorities.
And KGE had exploited his Wesak Day greetings to appeal to the rest (Chinese Buddhists, Indian Hindus) to join up with his DAP Christians to fight Umno, Perkasa, Utusan and the rest of the Malay-related organizations that had been causing him grief.
Helen:
Nicole Tan, the antiquity loving fruit and water wench, is Seremban DAP if my memory is correct. If my recollection is wrong, at least I get to write “wench” again. :)
Thanks for pointing out the erratum, Joe. Have corrected. Malacca on my mind due to Madam Betty and Mademoiselle Rainbow.
helen, the anti chinese n indian prejudices is being cooked up by bn right wingers afraid to lose power. chinese, indian, other religions as a whole are being scape goated to try n scare malays into supporting bn. no amount of effort by you to try and tai chee their hatred toward the english educated christians is working. just look at the recent comments by people here; they want to close your chinese school, and still have prejudice to all indian n chinese.
but then it seems every single thing is used by you to put the blame on christians. now you also accuse the star of having christian agenda.
for your info, the church attacks started after the court agreed with the catholic church to allow them to use the word so long as it doesnt use to preach to muslims. the court case started after the church was prohibited by government from using the word in their magazine.
quote: “On the other hand, I do not want the evangelicals to drag the rest of us (Buddhists, Hindus, etc) into the crusade that they’re waging.
And yes, the word “crusade” was used by Kim Guan Eng in his 2011 Wesak Day message. Only in typical DAPster fashion, he accused Perkasa of “perang jihad” against the minorities. “
didnt perkasa ibrahim ali said himself earlier he want to launch jihad? it looks like the only crusade/jihad is being waged by ibrahhim ali n fanatics like him
The prohibition on ‘Allah’ word was in the statute books since the 1980s but not enforced.
Previously authorities were lax in enforcement, that’s all.
You have to ask yourself why the earlier willingness to close one eye is no longer there. Don’t just blame the Muslims and Malays alone for a situation where two parties are unable to compromise.
How could Dave understand? His elders in the Church probably brainwashed him good and proper on the crux of the matter. You think the Ministry of Home Affairs has nothing to do than to prod a hornet’s nest?
The Herald is pivoting on its declaration from the court that it cannot be prohibited from using “Allah” in its Malay publications by the Ministry. The government is not stopping anyone from using the term in their prayers, song, worship etc. This restriction was already deemed beyond the powers granted under the printing and presses act, and correctly so.
Until the ministry figures out where the state syariah enactments stand on this matter, the Herald’s rights are clearly protected under the civil laws unreachable by the claws of the gazetted bans. I understand why the Herald went to the courts, but I don’t think it is a decision made on the matter of “Allah” usage alone.
quote: “The prohibition on ‘Allah’ word was in the statute books since the 1980s but not enforced.”
which brings us to the question. why was there a ban in the 80s? why ban a word that has been used by malay speaking christians way long before merdeka and the union with sabah n sarawak?
as for ihns, he should read the facts about the case before jumping to conclusions
Under the Control and Restriction, Propagation of Non-Islamic Religious Enactments by the various states, the civil court can hear cases of non-Islamic proselytization among Muslims. The question here is that a Malay bible does not automatically qualify as an offensive material, and the gazetted list of words made under the national fatwa council forms another area of dispute.
The timeline of events clearly showed that the government wants to control the use of the Malay bibles (specifically words like Allah etc., and conditioned its use with the mark of the cross (salib) and stated purpose (for Christian / Christian publication) on the cover.
However, the Churches banded together to resist, and the KDN began sending letters to the Herald on their use of Allah in their Malay section. Has the Ministry banned the Herald? No, but the Church decided to go to the courts to get its day under the sun in 2007. That’s when the Alkitabs were stopped at the ports – after the last round of tits and tats.
The Church arsons happened in 2010 when the court judgements came down, and since then, goodwill on both ends of the divide is practically nil.
Dave kept asking, why was there a ban, why the ban?
The fact is, for every action there will be a reaction.
Perhaps the government is genuinely concerned about potential misunderstanding and confusions? That has been the official excuse for the past 30 years anyway.
I, for one, believe it is about handicapping the effort to propagate Christianity among the Malay-speaking crowd. Isn’t it clearer to be honest? I doubt any Taoist or Buddhist publications in Malay are using those terms anyway.
yes, that is very clear.
so basically, the government (or some overzealos official) decided one day that words which bumi christians have been using for several hundred years can suddenly be a threat to the akidah or confuse malaysian muslims. despite being no recent increase trend in murtad cases.
just like how in 2002, the iban language bible (bup kudus) was also banned, but reversed by prime minister badawi who said it was the work of overzealous officials in the home ministry.
and so a decision was made to prohibit use of the word, because confusion may happen. but what did happen was affected freedom of worship for bumi christians n the availability of bahasa christian literature to them.
Helen,
I am not surprise. Church in last election endorsed anything but BN. They do not “like” BN as it is firm on “allah” issue, the main stumbling block that stand between Church and Muslims.
The church finds it more “appealing’ in dealing with PR as it is led by DAP.
what the Church does is certainly not my business. oh well, since the Church has the support of the opposition, and the opposition is backed by my Jewish masters, ah whatever…….nobody knows who is going to win the next general election, so might as well sit it out and wait for the outcome. the opposition is led by my Jewish masters by the way, not the Chinese DAP since the opposition is trained and funded by Jewish associated entities.
I’ve always wondered. the opposition has, for the most part, failed to articulate a very compelling vision for this country. But then again, my Jewish masters have always said that it is because of this reason that they back the opposition because the opposition is easier to control.
so the conclusion implied from helen’s own post (not the bishop) is:
– bn has no respect for human dignity
– bn has no respect for rights as guaranteed under the Federal Constitution
– bn are racial, religious bigots, n manipulaters
– bn is corrupt iwith no integrity, transparency and accountability
– and so on…
指鹿为马
The bishop says “CFM is not politically motivated nor is it endorsing any one political party”.
He’s holding a Bersih T-shirt, photo from CCM Youth website that says he’s “supporting clean, free and fair elections in Malaysia”.
Bersih says the movement is not politically motivated nor is it endorsing any one political party.
Given all the statements made by Bersih committee members, their background and the activities they’ve associated themselves with, the fact that in Bersih 1.0 Anwar & the rest of the Pakatan pollies presented the memo to the Agong, that Anwar had once said he can tell Ambiga to call off the rally, that in the Bersih press conferences, the Pakatan pollies are sitting beside Ambiga … you believe that Bersih is politically non-partisan?
I believe the Malay-Muslims would be more open to bertolak ansur if, instead of adopting this kind of disingenuous posturing, the evangelicals presented their case honestly rather than wearing camouflage.
I think you interpreted the Bishop wrongly. Helen did not write the manifesto, the Bishop did. He is the one asking the voters to vote wisely for a government that will give Christians all the above.
Be consistent, you are the one who kept giving us examples of BN’s religious intolerance, prosecution and curtailment, hahahaha…
“He is the one asking the voters to vote wisely for a government that will give Christians all the above.”
and he did not say who to support. it was helen who put in her assumptions.
and werent you the one claiming there has been no intolerance, prosecution and curtailment in malaysia? sudah lupa ke?
Dear Dave,
As logic would have it, you know very well which party the Bishop is asking the Christians to vote for. Is it a Christian trait to feign pretense and be deceitful? The bishop could have grown a pair of balls and be straightforward so that his cheap insinuations that the Christians have been “unduly curtailed” can be examined in the open. The cowardly and sneaky manner in which a man of cloth throws his rock and then hide his hand is plain and obvious.
That is why I argue that if there is indeed any prosecution (go read up the dictionary on what that word means), then let it be stated outright in the open. What are the Christians being victimised for? Did the courts failed to protect the minority religion’s interest? Did the government closed down churches? Understand the issue of the orang asli churches, and ask the Kelantan government under PAS about what they have been doing all this while. Unlike the Malaccan incident, the Kelantanese government had actually torn down one in Gua Musang.
My mistake if the Bishop is actually making an endorsement for BN. I must thank you for correcting my error that the good man was actually plugging for Najib and co.
quote: As logic would have it, you know very well which party the Bishop is asking the Christians to vote for. Is it a Christian trait to feign pretense and be deceitful? The bishop could have grown a pair of balls and be straightforward so that his cheap insinuations that the Christians have been “unduly curtailed” can be examined in the open. The cowardly and sneaky manner in which a man of cloth throws his rock and then hide his hand is plain and obvious.”
“The Christian Federation of Malaysia (CFM) therefore invites and encourages all Christians to be conscious of their political rights – to vote, and to use the power of the vote to elect a government that will ensure justice with equity and the well-being of our nation. The CFM is not politically motivated nor is it endorsing any one political party.”
….
“The CFM encourages Christians to pray that good leaders will emerge from the 13th general elections who will not only fulfil the above criteria, but who have the interest of our beloved nation and its people as their first and only priority.”
all he’s asking for is for christians to vote, and as i mentioned before… no endorsement of any party.
for some, they may see pakatan as the key to better freedom n bn as an obstacle.
for some, they may prefer bn for other reason, like pas hudud/hassan ali types
your mistake is you (and a few others here) want to read too much into this to fulfil your own biases. it looks like you want him to endorse pakatan so you have perfect ammunition to go on a anti-pakatan, anti-christian frenzy.
“The CFM is not politically motivated nor is it endorsing any one political party.”
– CFM
Yeah, that’s what they all say, including the Cardinal Sin in the Philippines. Please, didn’t Bersih made the same claims too?
Helen,
When rhetoricians had a difference of opinion about certain issue, laying their card on the table is not the usual option but the beating around the bush seemingly is a more favorable approach instead.
A good example of rhetoricians and a liking for not mincing their words is the issue of wanting to implement a new version of religion based state (a welfare state) and as expected: there comes the super fast “over my bearded chin” kind of knee-jerk response
And now, there is an outbreak of unending verbal diarrhea in many spheres.
Helen Ang = Anti-Christ
nuff said!!!!
I think you give too much credit to Helen…
rubbish. you give her too much credit
Dave gives his own self way too much credit…
Dear Julie,
That depends, how many anti-christs are there according to your gospel?
Julie, this has nothing to do with anti Christ, but just shows how religious movement is being used for political purpose ie in this case for PR. Pre GE12, most politicians did not use religious organization to sway political agenda.
The only religious affiliated organization within the political segment is PAS, the rest is more based on the origin of the ethnicity. UMNO simply ran on a Melayu agenda, just like their mandores in MCA and MIC and the rest but religion was left aside.
After GE12, the story is all about religion not Melayu, Cina, Indian or lain-lain as political parties begin to indulge on religion as a factor that creates further polarization from ethnicity to religion based amongst their prospective voters. I think it is childish and immaturity on your part that contributes to say Helen is anti-Christ.
At all instances, the religious organization should stand down on political positioning but rather continue to reach out to their followers to act humanely amongst each other when the need arises for the reality that faces those aggrieved in a genuine manner rather than politicking based on religion.
Helen,
Dave still refuse to believe that generally Malay Muslims community is not pleased with church inclination towards DAP. And Dave still refuse to believe that church using pulpit for a change of government.
He claimed that the sentiment is orchestrated. The sentiment is genuine. Malays are not anti chinese. Rather anti DAP that abusing Chinese interest and that of other faiths to gain political power by portraying how “bad’ UMNO (meaning Islam, Malays are).
As for Guan eng, he is creating his own enemy. So used to “bulldozing” views within DAP, he is so comfortable trying to force his way on others outside realm of DAP. He has no qualm in being hostile to Malays especially.
His tactic is so crude. Blame whatever any grievance from Malays as ploys by UMNO.
And he moves on. He made threatening remarks to reporters over simple questions. He can simply solve the problem by admitting or denying the “alleged” rumour. He was so paranoid, thus confirming what people think on the rumour.
He did not even think twice to use his one son to whack Muhyiddin. Contrary to morons in DAP, others can clearly see that it was Guan Eng who happily manipulating his son, not Muhyiddin.
Bitch! Enough said!
You must be a chihuahua. You’re yelping.
Spot on, bitch and I’m on heat. Woof! Woof! Woof! How about it? Wink, wink?
Dog, I have this for you “A dog of this kind was used as a metaphor for an utterly despicable person (Deuteronomy 23:17-18; 2 Kings 8:3); someone who is utterly reprobate” No it is not Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism or any other following, but Christianity that says this. So are you one.
So do you represent someone who is viciously opposed to the message of humanity, and who would, if possible, gather together with other dogs to attack those who proclaim it. When the hand of truth and humanity is extended to them, this kind of “dog” snarls and snaps at it. No!!! Learn your scriptures well before barking or snarling.
Malaysian New Yorker,
The OT scriptures have loads of pretty badass metaphors, don’t they? In the NT, Jesus also compared the Samaritans (the woman at the well) to dogs, right? Whatever!
Actually I’m your best friend, you know, dogs are man’s best friend. So, take it easy dude or I might just bite your head off. Woof! Woof!
Offtopic (maybe not),
Was Jesus a communist revolutionary ? Of course not. Only a communist would say that, right ? What if i tell you that such claims can be found in The Herald ?
What about Jesus’ “Render unto Caesar what belongs unto Caesar” quote ? Is Jesus condemning Capitalism and condoning Communism ? Silly, right ? What if i tell you this is yet another claim that can be found in The Herald ?
Human rights. Social Justice. Peace and justice. Such themes have become the norm in almost all Catholic sermons. Do you know who’s behind all this ?
There is a third-rate political party making rounds going to Catholic parishes and promoting such theology and encouraging political activism, under the guise of voter education, social justice and human rights. This political party’s ideology is… Marxism. Read full story below (with verifiable links).
http://www.freewebs.com/henry97/
This is not something that is just starting out. This has been going on for years. The transformation is complete. The RCC is fully in the Marxist camp. Marxist anti-government, anti-capitalism, anti-American and anti-Vatican ideas are rife within The Herald (albeit in subtle language).
The biggest institutional supporter of Communism in Malaysia is the Roman Catholic Church!
Maybe you’re thinking this is a Catholic problem. Wrong. If you’re a Methodist, it’s coming soon to a parish near you.
http://friendsinconversation.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/442/
Other denominations will be next. They’re coming with sweet words on their lips like human rights, social justice and peace and justice. Christians always fall for that…
henry savari rayan
Ipoh
Oh, I should have read the thread first. I’m pretty sure DAP is not the one whipping up anti-government sentiment within the churches, it’s the PSM.
Dr Jeyakumar and friends (various front organizations) are behind this.
NGO’s like Community Action Network, Pax Romana ICMICA and Dignity International. Individuals like Jerald Joseph, Paul Sinappan, Eric Bryan and others.
Dr Jeyakumar first held a forum (plight of estate workers) at my parish in 1999. He’s still doing that, but on various topics – Bersih, voter education, human rights, etc. (just a cover really). It seems every 3 months there’s a forum inside a church somewhere in Ipoh.
It’s Dr Jeyakumar, folks. And Anil Netto too.
Orang Melayu Bertelingkah – Mubaligh Kristian Masuk Kampung Melayu Mendakyah Blog Membela Islam – http://membelaislam.wordpress.com