Hudud: Papa must smack Guan Eng on his long, long nose

August 2, 2012 at 7:56 pm 28 comments

Umno extremist in wanting hudud for all, says DAP‘ — article in The Malaysian Insider today.

TMI reported:

“Umno is promoting religious extremism by pushing for the enforcement of hudud or the Islamic criminal code for all citizens instead of just Muslims, the DAP’s Lim Guan Eng said today.”

Really?

Did the Umno president ever say his party wanted to implement hudud?

Najib Razak clearly said, “Hudud laws cannot be implemented as we have to take into consideration the environment and the reality.” (See The Star, 25 Sept 2011)

Did the Umno deputy president ever say his party wanted to implement hudud?

On the contrary, Muhyiddin Yassin said, “Our stand is that in Malaysia, we cannot implement it in the present situation. I do not think in the present condition, it is suitable for implementation.” (See The Sun Daily, 23 Sept 2011)

Did Umno sec-gen Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor ever say his party wanted to implement hudud? Who in the Umno leadership said so?

Oh. Umno’s Kemelah state assemblyman Ayub Rahmat recently made a call for hudud to be implemented in Johor, is it?

Umno has 32 Aduns in Johor out of BN’s 50. Does YB Ayub – who represents 1/50th of the total BN state seats in Johor – speak for Umno’s national policy?

The Umno spokesman, by the way, is Ahmad Maslan, head of information.

Guan Eng also cites Penang state opposition leader Azhar Ibrahim and Kepala Batas Wanita Umno division as having passed resolutions “supporting hudud for all”.

Well, Azhar is retiring from politics due to ill health. (See The Sun Daily, 19 July 2012)

He will not be around in the political arena in future to see his purported resolution through, particularly as his state Penang is presently DAP-controlled … unless Guan Eng lacks confidence that the Pakatan electoral pact will retain Penang (?)

As for the Kepala Batas Wanita Umno division, it is a women’s wing among 191 Umno divisions. Has the Kepala Batas Umno main division passed a resolution to implement hudud? The Kepala Batas Umno division is headed by Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.

Abdullah has stated that Umno is consistent in its stand on hudud. (See Malaysian Digest, 27 Sept 2011) If the former premier had wanted hudud implemented, he would have said so during the six years that he was prime minister.

So what exactly is Lim Guan Eng talking about when quoted by TMI as saying the Pakatan

“common manifesto for the 13th general election makes no mention of an Islamic state or enforcing hudud at the federal level. He said this was in stark contrast to Umno leaders nationwide who recently backed a Johor Umno politician’s call to implement hudud in the southern state.”

Which Umno top leaders specifically and which area in the peninsula (there’s no Umno Sarawak), pray tell, Guan Eng?

On the other hand, every single PAS national leader and the PAS constitution itself as well as the Islamist party’s raison d’etre calls for hudud to be implemented.

Is Guan Eng comparing the PAS sebangsa sejiwa voice to the scattered Umno voices of Kemelah Adun and Wanita Umno Kepala Batas?

By the same token, can we take the voice of DAP Klang – currently gagged by Teresa Kok from making any comments on hudud – as the voice of the DAP?

Instead of Guan Eng throwing a hissy fit, he should instead address some evergreen issues once raised by his own father.

Oh Papa, what has your son done?

Lim Kit Siang, as the then Parliamentary opposition leader, DAP secretary-general and MP for Kota Melaka, made the following speech (refer pdf here) at the Petaling Jaya Old Town branch committee meeting on 24 April 1986.

In his 1986 speech, Kit Siang berated the “group of very enthusiastic non-Muslim Chinese running around in Chinese society selling the PAS’ objective of an Islamic State”.

Since the DAP-PAS marriage of convenience in 2008, there have been many groups of very enthusiastic non-Muslim Chinese running around everywhere saying they no longer have any fear of hudud nor any objection to its implementation. On Muslims. To chop off the hands of “Umno thieves”.

This dulu lain, sekarang lain situation reflects the differences in DAP 1.0 then headed by Lim Sr and DAP 2.0 now headed by Lim Jr.

In 1986, Kit Siang was worried that “the present Constitution would have to be scrapped, replaced by an Islamic Constitution based on the Koran, and where only Muslims can interpret and amend the Constitution”.

Well, that’s exactly what PAS wants to do. The PAS president said so unequivocally. See ‘Hadi: We will amend Constitution‘ (NST, 2 May 2012)

However, with DAP 2.0, it’s clearly a case of belakang kira. Putrajaya first, sort out the fine print later.

Kit Siang also warned – and tagged his warning with an exclamation mark for added emphasis – that “in an Islamic State, non-Muslims cannot vote to influence the national direction or the laws. This is because in an Islamic State, power is no more derived from the people (as at present) but from the Koran!” [note the yet another exclamation mark]

Ask: How does Kit Siang appraise what his son Guan Eng is doing today?

In 1986, Kit Siang had accused the group of very enthusiastic non-Muslim Chinese running around promoting PAS as being “only interested in giving support to the PAS struggle” in order to help MCA and Gerakan candidates to win by default through splitting the votes.

What does the DAP stalwart say about his scion-cum-successor’s very enthusiastic evangelical coterie doing the very same today?

In 1986, Kit Siang had called on the very enthusiatic Chinese people “who are working for the PAS cause for the coming general elections to come out openly to explain to the Malaysian Chinese community why they are supporting the cause of an Islamic State in Malaysia”.

In 1986, Kit Siang cautioned that if the Islamic State were to come to fruition in a far quicker time span, then it is “the ‘election strategists’ who want the Chinese to support PAS” that are to be blamed.

In 1986, Kit Siang queried the very enthusiastic groups of Chinese campaigning for PAS if they would “also support an Islamic State movement by the Umno government after the next general elections?”

What was a rhetorical question by Kit Siang in 1986 has been turned into a grow-long-nose answer by his son today.

***   ***   ***

A copy of Lim Kit Siang’s speech can also be found in his website, http://bibliotheca.limkitsiang.com/1986/04/24/chinese-support-for-the-pas%E2%80%99-struggle-of-an-islamic-state-in-the-coming-general-elections-will-only-give-umno-an-opportunity-to-seriously-implement-an-islamic-state-in-malaysia-after-the-polls/

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28 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Goondoo  |  August 2, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Saya sokong hudud yang dinyatakan dalam Al Quran dan juga hudud yang diyatakan di dalam Kitab Injil dan Torah.

    Saya rasa tak perlu ahli ahli DAP bermuka-muka..Sepatutnya mereka dengan lapang hati menyambut hudud kerana hukum hudud juga disebutkan di dalam kitab kepercayaan mereka. Nabi Isa pernah berkata, Matthew 5:17,

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Maknanya hukum tidak boleh makan babi, hukum bersunat dan hukum hudud yang diamalkan oleh kaum Yahudi perlu juga diamalkan sepenuhnya oleh orang Kristian. Kalau tidak maknanya orang Kristian tidak mengikut ajaran Nabi Isa, kan! dan tidak boleh masuk syurga.

    Reply
  • 2. forrestcat  |  August 2, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    DAP, classic reincarnation of doublespeak…..i expect a ministry of love when they come to power…

    Reply
  • 3. norman fernandez  |  August 2, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    When non-Muslims oppose hudud, they’re are not opposing or are anti Islam. They oppose hudud simply because they have yet to see hudud implemented judiciously and fairly with each claiming their version is the correct and true version and the others is not in accordance accordance with Islam.

    The Talibans in Afghanistan say their version is in accordance with the Quran. Then we have the Pakistani version, the Egyptian edition and nearer home, the PAS version is not accepted by BN. So the big question is which is the right version?

    Next seeing how hudud is applied, non-Muslims are not convinced by the argument either it will be applied fairly or that hudud will not be applied to non-Muslims, which is pure baloney. Not only hudud will be extended to non-Muslims but non-Muslims will pay a greater and heavier price.

    Reply
  • 4. Joe  |  August 2, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Kim’s special officers only undrstand Hokkien… that’s why they mistranslated quotes for their Boss.

    Reply
  • 5. shamshul anuar  |  August 2, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Helen

    Kalau namanya Guan eng, memang kerjanya menipu.

    Reply
  • 6. herakoz  |  August 3, 2012 at 7:07 am

    Helen…saya pun pelik kenapa KGE suka menipu. Ada inferiority complex syndrome ke?

    Reply
  • 7. shamshul anuar  |  August 3, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Herakoz,

    Jangan pelik. Guan Eng tak ada apa-apa kelebihan. Dia jadi Ketua Menteri sebab bapa dia Kit Siang ‘maharaja DAP’.

    Pada hal yang patut jadi ketua menteri ialah Pengerusi DAP Pulau Pinang. Saya faham Azizan jadi ketua menteri sebab dia Pesuruhjaya PAS Kedah. Tetapi siapa Guan Eng?

    Bila berdepan dalam debat, dia tak boleh jawab walaupun dengan Dr Koh yang lemah lembut ni.

    Kalau tengok perangai bapa dia, begitulah perangai anaknya.

    Reply
  • 8. Ahmad Ibrahim  |  August 3, 2012 at 10:20 am

    LGE, the man just can’t stop *****

    Reply
  • 9. Ahmad Ibrahim  |  August 3, 2012 at 10:56 am

    I forgot to post one comment though. Where were the DAP big guns when the Terengganu PAS youth head called Karpal outdated for opposing hudud ? What silence ? Phew !

    Reply
  • 10. badtamperman  |  August 3, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    As Muslim, we want and strive Hudud BUT it must based on the current environment and meet the criteria (All non-muslim have been briefed and understand what is the Islamic Law and all Muslims are well knowledge and understand their religion). In Malaysia, we already have Islamic Banking, Islamic Insurance in which both Muslim and non-Muslim benefited from it. We built mosque and we let also the non-muslim built their temples and churches. We as Muslim have never interfere with their religious practices and we respect their beliefs and practises as what said in Quran in Surah-Al-Kafirun:-

    Katakanlah (Wahai Muhammad): “Wahai orang-orang Kafir”
    Aku tidak akan menyembah apa yang kamu sembah
    Dan kamu tidak mahu menyembah (Allah) yang aku sembah
    Dan aku tidak akan beribaradt secara kamu beribadat
    Dan kamu pula tidak mahu beribadat secara aku beribadat
    Bagi kamu ugama kamu, dan bagiku ugama ku

    Islam is the most fast growing religion in the world not because it as a religion but as the way of life. There are a lot of tolerances in Islam whether with Muslim or Non-Muslim.

    Lim Guan Eng made a mistake when he said “Umno extremist in wanting hudud for all, says DAP”. The truth is “All Muslim in the world want Islamic Law for all, says World Muslim”. And as Muslim it is MUST for us to taking care of our Non-Muslim neighbor as what our Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. taking care of a blind woman Jewish by giving her food daily and taking care of her health until his end of day. So make no mistake, Muslim do want Islamic Law not only HUDUD.

    By the way Helen, it is better for you to study the differences between Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jammah, Syiah and Khawarij. Majority Muslims in Malaysia are Ahlul Sunnah Wal-Jammah but lately there are many threats from Syiah and Khawarij from certain political religion parties.

    Reply
  • 11. Sharifah  |  August 4, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Helen, what can you expect from the son of the urinator and from the urinator himself??? Biasalah, bapa borek anak rintek. Kalau bapa kaki urinate, anak pun sama.

    Reply
    • 12. Helen Ang  |  August 4, 2012 at 7:52 pm

      For the record: LKS has reiterated his denial, and repeated that he was campaigning in Sabah post-GE 10 May 1969. (The polling was only in the peninsula and Sabah had yet to hold its separate state election.)

      LKS also pointed out that:

      “The White Paper issued by the National Operations Council in 9th October 1969 entitled ‘The May 13 Tragedy’ made no reference to any such urination incident.”

      He further expressed his reservations about the film, saying:

      “If the movie Tanda Putraja (sic) gives a biased and unbalanced account of the May 13 tragedy in 1969, it will be the cause of grave national misunderstanding and discord …”

      at his blog today, http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2012/08/04/tanda-puteras-urination-episode-downright-lie-and-dangerous-falsehood/

      Reply
    • 13. Salhas  |  December 14, 2012 at 7:20 pm

      The flagpole at which the senior kim urinated on had grown in length by three inches. That’s the potency of kim’s rocket.

      Reply
      • 14. Helen Ang  |  December 14, 2012 at 7:26 pm

        What makes you believe the urban legend?

        Reply
  • 15. lousy.engineer  |  August 4, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    I have a disconcerting feeling that most Malays probably have no problem with hudud and actually wanted the implementation based on the supposed justification that the crime rate would be lower (hence a safer society).

    I just had a conversation with a Malay colleague whom I counted as someone who’s open enough and she’s telling me exactly that, and that kind of disturbing to me. I’ve asked her to read Helen’s post on this and I hope she would re-think about it.

    On the other hand, this policy incompatibility between DAP and PAS will forever be a nagging issue. Non-Malays who says hudud is a non-issue, are basically clueless with what they’re getting into.

    Reply
    • 16. Helen Ang  |  August 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm

      Your colleague’s rationale is a perceived safer environment, compared to simply a religious acquiesce, i.e. some Muslims believing that hudud is a must b’cos the Quran says so. Outsyed the Box is a good blog to read on the details of what’s actually contained in which (Quran or Bible) holy book.

      I don’t blame the Malay POV b’cos they’re Muslims and quite naturally, they would tend either not to object or otherwise inclined to support.

      But the non-Malays who say hudud is a non-issue is b’cos of DAP political reasons and not religious conviction.

      How many of your Chinese friends have been converted into agreeing with hudud?

      Reply
  • 17. Gan  |  August 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Ala BN in power,Hudud will never be a law becos the hands to be chopped off first are those of BN men. That can be said a sure fixed promise or janji di tetapi!

    Reply
    • 18. Goondoo  |  August 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm

      Are you sure?.. The first to be stoned to death will be the dear Opposition Leader for sodomy and adultery..

      Reply
    • 19. shamshul anuar  |  August 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm

      Gan,

      What is hudud actually. It is mentioned sparingly even in AlQuran. PAS uses it to its advantage by claiming UMNO is not keen on that.

      Malaysia is not a secular country like Singapore or Indonesia or USA. Neither it is a theocratic country. The fact is that Malaysia lies in between.

      Dr Mahathir is right to say that Malaysia is an Islamic country. Worldwide Malaysia being ruled by muslims is seen as a Muslim country.

      Dr Chua cant be blamed for rejecting Hudud. Who among non Muslims would want Hudud after seeing how Muslim community around the globe in messy situation, oppressed with despotic tyrants or plain speaking at mercy of everybody.

      and I as a Muslim reject PAS. Not hudud. But PAS. I pray PAS is not “granted” power by Allah SWT after seeing how “munafik” or hypocrites PAS leaders can be.

      What PAS systematically avoiding to tell is “hikmah” or how to implement. Saying it wants Hudud is one thing, showing the path to implement is another story. That is more important.

      Saying that I do not mind staying in a country here rapists are hang hand being chopped for “meragut”.

      Which explains why a lady can leave her trendy handbag and go to toilet in Qatar or Saudi Arabia. The handbag will be there after she finishes her business. bUt again all citizens of Saudi arabia is “umat Nabi Muhammad SAW” which make such policy necessary and expected.

      Reply
  • 20. lousy.engineer  |  August 4, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    How many of your Chinese friends have been converted into agreeing with hudud? – Helen

    I wouldn’t say they agree with hudud per se, but because most are stuck in the ABU mentality, they have pretty much overlook this issue and merely dismissed it (because they believe DAP will be able to check on PAS) when I brought it up.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Why are they stuck in the ABU mentality and what makes them believe DAP will be able to check on PAS? — Helen

    Reply
    • 21. lousy.engineer  |  August 5, 2012 at 11:01 pm

      Helen, the ABU thing is a tiring stuff for me to re-thread here but based on my circle of friends/colleagues, there’s emphasis on the economy angle, which I partly concur; the perception that the current government is mismanaging the country’s resource for far too long, which in turns made people wonder how long we can continue to ride the gravy trains. One friend just pointed me to this article last week. It doesn’t help that a web organisation like this has been preaching economic gloom and doom.

      In addition, most Chinese works in private sectors, so they’re the first to bear the brunt of any economy recesssion. I personally had a pay cut and zero pay increment during fiscal year of 2008/2009 when the great recession (caused by housing bubble in US) happened. Some of my friends who work in one MNC have not been getting any raise for few years already and of course fearing possible retrenchment. A young Chinese engineer just related to me few months ago how he’s feeling insecure about his career as his current job is only a contract position and CEO of the company has always been talking about variable cost (limiting fixed cost as much as possible, i.e. lowering permanent headcounts). Coupled that with rising property prices and higher cost of living, it probably just increases the frustration. People just don’t see how all these program transformasi could help them.

      Regarding DAP checking on PAS- I didn’t seek more clarification from them so I’ll dig more from them during another kopitiam session later.

      Reply
      • 22. Helen Ang  |  August 5, 2012 at 11:25 pm

        Thanks for your feedback.

        Food for thought, have a read of this (vis-a-vis the complaint by your circle of friends), http://econsmalaysia.blogspot.com/2012/03/nexus-of-corruption-and-higher-income.html

        It’s Part I of the thread, from which you can work your way to Part V.

        Reply
      • 23. lousy.engineer  |  August 6, 2012 at 12:24 am

        Thanks for the link. On the other hand, I feel the urge to correct my blanket statement on PM’s transformation programs in my earlier comment.

        It appears that some of Najib’s initiatives have actually triggered some funds being trickled to private sectors like MNCs. An example is hiring of fresh graduates in MNC. There’s some sort of apprentice program in some MNCs that hire fresh graduates for a period of time and the graduate will only be able to continue on permanent basis if the job performance is good enough. I’m told that the government is actually subsidizing the pay of these graduates.

        Also, some private technology companies are getting grants from government to fund their R&D activities.

        Reply
    • 24. shamshul anuar  |  August 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm

      Helen,

      Chinese in general does not want Hudud. But they support PAS. Not out of love. But in general they will be the group most benefitted should BN lose power.

      Remember PAS does not even coming close to what UMNO to BN. So, if BN loses power, the political power shifts from UMNO to DAP.

      Reply
      • 25. Helen Ang  |  August 6, 2012 at 2:46 pm

        I concur with your cost-benefit analysis, Shamshul.

        However, realistically I don’t expect Umno to lose power as the elections have always been weighted in favour of the ruling party, i.e. malapportionment, gerrymandering, rules and regulations, resources, etc, etc.

        Therefore, I’m at a loss to understand the irrationality of the DAPster behaviour.

        Reply
  • 26. shamshul anuar  |  August 6, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Helen,

    that’s the beauty of incumbency. Naturally you have the advantage. But the most important reason why BN always win (though sometimes in less spectacular performance) is due to the fact it is the only coalition that comprises all races in Malaysia.

    Despite its weaknesses, it still delivers. As for UMNO, even at its weakest time, it still manages to win the largest block of Malay voters.

    As for DAP, it thrives on on slandering and creating imaginery enemies in Chinese mind. That in order to safeguard their Interests, the must be “segregated” from the rest especially the Malays. and not to forget its hallmark of clashing with everything that are dear to the malays.

    what the Chinese seems to ignore( sat their own peril) is that DAP is bringing them to collide with the Malays, LITERALLY SPEAKING.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    (1) “the fact it is the only coalition that comprises all races”; it may not be so post=GE13 … then how?

    (2) “DAP thrives on on slandering and creating imaginery enemies in Chinese mind” … and vice versa. The Chinese are created as imaginary enemy in the Malay mind; take away PM’s post, take away Malay political power, rights, opportunities. — Helen

    Reply
  • 27. shamshul anuar  |  August 7, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    Helen,

    Many chinese assume that UMNO said many bad things about DAP or chinese.

    Actually that is half true. UMNO said many bad things about DAP. and UMNO said the truth. DAP is for Lim Dynasty only. Chinese interests are mere pawns used to gain power.

    But the malays who are willing to think and be critical will have no problem in seeing DAP’s true color. Despite lamentiing hows things in malaysia often perceived from racially tinted perspective, DAP is actually promoting racism in Malaysia.

    It simply does not want Chinese to integrate with the rest of malaysians. It slanders UMNO leaders day in day out. It made the suicide of TBH a political issue. The result is predictable. At the end UMNO was blamed.

    It looked down on darker colored people. Remember insulting remark by a rude DAP politician against Dr Zambri, a PHD holder.

    It demolished Malay stalls simply because the owners are malays. It resists low cost houses to deny Malays to buy affordable houses.

    HELEN,

    i was not born yesterday. malays have no problem with Chinese. Whatever said about Malays, they are more tolerant than Chinese.

    Do you expect Ong tee Keat can win without Malay support. Malays due to their Islamic background although do not trust DAP does not hinder or cruel to chinese. Chinese rights in Malaysia is a model unchallenged in this world.

    Only malays realise they are dreaming to expect same treatment from Chinese should the latter come into power.

    I am saying from the bottom of my heart. No offense. The reason why Malays do not trust chinese is simple. they see Chinese politicians( many of them) as “forked tounges( from DAP) and behaving like “pendatang” . worse still these useless pendatang is very active waging war against the Malays.

    how? By insisting to let christian to use ‘allah” when none of numerous pages in Bible has a single word “allah”.

    Or by creating illusion that their identity compromised if they study under one roof with Malays.

    By saying that I am not advocating hostility against Chinese. It is simply wrong to say UMNO instill “imaginery’ enemy on Malay mind. UMNO does say DAP is enemy to the malays.

    and it is saying the truth.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    No Chinese I know believes TBH committed suicide. — Helen

    Reply
  • 28. Anak Watan  |  December 14, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    It’s kind of sad to see how majority of the new generation Chinese are supporting DAP. Being a Malay, I have to admit that the system is far from being fair, but what is fair in this world?

    I can never support DAP, not because it is a Chinese Party (They can deny as much as they want by saying it is not). But because, any party or individual that says we must give up our identity is not worthy of my support. If you are a Chinese, be a Chinese, fight for the Chinese – I am fine with that. I just simply can’t accept the hypocrisy bullcrap called “Bangsa Malaysia”. Seriously, what the heck is that?

    I grew up admiring the Chinese , and learning from them is what made me successful today. But the Malaysian Chinese today is not the Chinese of yesteryear. Instead of working hard, they whine, instead of being a great role model like their grandparents, they are now weak, westernised and delusional – thinking they are better than the Malay kids on their own merits and not of the previous generations. If I have kids some days, the Malaysian Chinese will no longer be candidates to serve as their role models.

    Reply

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