Hanya Muslim yang rapuh iman boleh begitu mudah konpius, kata juru strategi DAP

Januari 2, 2013 at 12:39 am 80 comments

Di bawah ialah petikan rencana oleh Ong Kian Ming – juru strategi kempen pilihanraya umum DAP – yang disiarkan di Malaysiakini (31 Dis 2012).

Tajuk: ‘Allah row – what’s the name of the game?

Ong Kian Ming mengajukan tiga hujah.

Yang pertama, hak kebebasan beragama mengikut Perkara 11 Perlembagaan Persekutuan harus disama-ertikan dengan hak orang Kristian menentukan istilah pilihan untuk kegunaan dalam kitab suci mereka.

Katanya:

“Surely this right as enshrined in the constitution should include the right to determine the words which are used in one’s Holy Scriptures?” [...]

“To say that Christians should change the word Allah to Tuhan is to DISRESPECT the rights of a religious group – Christians, in this case – to have autonomy and control over their own religious texts.”

Yang kedua, katanya larangan ke atas ‘Allah’ akan mencelarukan kerja pengalihan bahasa dengan menggandakan sebutan ‘Tuhan Tuhan’ (sepatutnya Tuhan Allah sebagai terjemahan yang betul bagi Lord God).

“Secondly, the proposal to replace the word Allah with Tuhan ignores the fact that Tuhan (or rather TUHAN) is already being used in the BM bible.” [...]

“If Allah is to be replaced with Tuhan, we would find Tuhan appearing twice in the same verse. For example [...] This relatively well known passage from Revelation 1:8 would read:

Akulah yang pertama dan yang terakhir”, firman Tuhan, Tuhan (rather than Allah) Yang Maha Kuasa, yang ada, yang sudah ada dan yang akan datang” (“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord Lord (rather than God), “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty”)

.
Yang ketiga, dia kata penggunaan Allah oleh orang Kristian tidak akan memberi apa-apa kesan (impak) ke atas umat Islam di Malaysia.

OngKianMingAllah

OngKianMingAllah2

Tegasnya lagi Muslim takkan boleh begitu senang terkeliru:

“The notion that somehow the mere usage of the word Allah in the Alkitab can somehow confuse Muslims is as ABSURD as the supposed usage of solar-powered Bibles to ‘convert’ Muslims to Christianity (not to mention the fact that it is an INSULT to the intelligence and faith of the Muslim population in Malaysia).”

Dia mengharap agar orangramai akan dapat membahaskan perkara kalimah Allah dengan “matang” serta tidak membuat tuduhan yang tidak berasas terhadap golongan Kristian.

Ong, seorang Kristian, menjelaskan bahawa hujah-hujah yang dikemukakan adalah pandangan peribadinya dan bukan pendirian parti DAP.

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$omething seriousl¥ wrong with arrogant M€A Nah! Ini dia blogger-blogger yang dimaksudkan Dr Chua

80 Komen Add your own

  • 1. Sugeh Mewah  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:18 am

    yang orang kristian ni beria ia nak guna perkataan Allah itu kenapa?
    Cuba faham apa yang YB Zul dah jelaskan…
    Jangan suka suka nak cari kemarrahan orang lain..
    kebebasan buka bermakna semua bebas..
    hak sama bukan bermakna Allah juga nak dikongsi ..

    Balas
  • 2. oviruses65@kiyaijr.com  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:25 am

    Reblogged this on Oviruses 65.

    Balas
  • 3. grandmarquis  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:29 am

    The main issue is not about confuse or not, but it is about attempt of minority to provoke the sensitivity of the Majority. I also personally believe that this minority is intentionally trying to test the response of majority to see how they would retaliate on the issue. And the evil politician make use of this as a tool to gain vote.

    About the translation, what is so difficult to use the word Nya, which has been used in Quran translation as well. For instance

    “Akulah yang pertama dan yang terakhir”, firmanNya, Tuhan…

    Balas
    • 4. Helen Ang  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:42 am

      Grandmarquis,

      Ong Kian Ming wrote:

      “Christians have been using Allah in Sabah and Sarawak for many years without ‘confusing’ or ‘misleading’ the Muslims in both states. Sabah and Sarawakians who worship in BM in churches in Peninsular Malaysia, including using Allah in worship and in the Alkitab, have similarly not offended the sensibilities of the Muslims in the peninsula.”

      The Sabahan natives do not offend the sensibilities

      The Sarawakian natives do not offend the sensibilities

      The Baba-Nyonyas do not offend the sensibilities

      The Sikhs do not offend the sensibilities when they all use Allah

      However, the evangelists in the peninsula do cause grave offence

      Isn’t that the 800lb gorilla in the room? No confusion at all. G-O-R-I-L-L-A.

      Their behaviour is offensive. THEY are offensive, period.

      They offend me when they even want to prevent other Chinese from using the word 神 – ‘Melampau! Kristian buat hal istilah ‘Tuhan’ orang Cina juga

      Balas
      • 5. atas pagar  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 2:36 am

        Ask Dap whether they are aware about this fact: hudud they planned to support would be imposed on anyone who worship God.

        And when Dap talk about hudud but at the same time they prefer the word a-l-l-a-h than anything else, is that an indirect signal to Pas to include them as well? Really?

        Balas
        • 6. Kpee,Kpanjang  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:56 am

          YES , hudud law is for believer of allah, So those who belief in Allah ,the hudud law must apply on them .Now let them use it then apply hudud on them that’s the way to go.

          It very clear now LGE /Dapster support Hudud!!!

          Balas
      • 7. Norlin binti Arshad  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 8:09 am

        Politikus DAP,

        Isu ini amat mudah diselesaikan. Tuan punya sudah tidak membenarkan digunakan istilah Allah. Kalau faham bahasa yang mudah ini, tidak usahlah digunakan!

        Tidak perlu beri pelbagai alasan. Hak orang hak orang juga. Tidak akan jadi hak sendiri!

        Balas
        • 8. oj  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:40 am

          diorang ingat hak diorang saja. hak umat Islam letak tepi?

          kepada orang2 dap, daripada kamu bising pasal kalimah Allah itu. lebih baik kamu perjelaskan isu tanah di kelantan yang dapat kat nga ngeh tuuuuu..

          Balas
        • 9. abdullah  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:21 pm

          Norlin,

          Apa maksud “Tuan punya sudah tidak membenarkan digunakan istilah Allah.” Adakah perkataan Allah itu ‘kepunyaan’ orang Islam di Malaysia sahaja? Orang Islam Arab tiada bantahan pun terhadap orang Kristian Arab menggunakan perkataan Allah? Padahal kedua-dua orang Islam di Malaysia dan Arab juga menyembah tuhan dan Quran yang sama. Mengapa hanya orang Islam Malaysia yang menuntut hak ekslusif terhadap perkataan Allah?

          Balas
          • 10. atas pagar  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 12:04 am

            Anda kata kalau Arab benarkan orang kristian gunakan perkataan allah maknanya semua bukan Arab sepatutnya benarkanlah penggunaannya. Maksudnya satu dunia Islam harus seragam. Betulkan?

            Kalau dunia Islam harus seragam bukankah dunia Kristian juga harus seragam? Kalau dunia Kristian harus seragam makanya mereka akan ikut siapa? Kristian Arab atau Kristian Eropah atau yang mana satu?

            Bayangkan kalau dunia Islam dan dunia Kristian adalah seia dan sekata (seragam)…sudah tentu dunia ini tidak ada kekeliruan dan semua penganut akan mendapat ‘syurga’ masing-masing. Namun, semua itu tidak akan berlaku, kan,kan?

            Balas
          • 11. abdullah  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:23 pm

            atas pagar,

            Kitab agama Kristian ini sudah diterjemahkan dalam banyak bahasa. Contohnya versi bahasa cina, tamil, arab, indonesia dan melayu. Sebab bukan semua penganut agama Kristian ini fasih berbahasa Inggeris. Maka, dalam versi terjemahan tersebut perkataan ‘tuhan’ itu juga diterjemah. Contoh, versi Kitab bahasa Arab menggunakan perkataan Allah untuk merujuk kepada Tuhan Kristian dan bukannya merujuk kepada Tuhan Islam. Tiada kekeliruan di sini.

            Adakah orang Islam akan ‘terambil’ Kitab bahasa Arab, lalu ‘terbaca’ ayat-ayat didalamnya dan ketika melihat perkataan Allah, terus ‘terkeliru’ bahawa perkataan itu merujuk kepada Tuhan Islam? Orang Islam yang benar-benar memahami susunan, struktur dan maksud nas-nas Quran tidak akan ‘terkeliru’ walaupun di tangannya dia memegang buku Kitab yang menggunakan perkataan Allah.

            Balas
          • 12. atas pagar  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 3:09 am

            English juga juga bukan bahasa asal injil, namun apabila injil diterjemahkan kedalam bahasa Inggeris tidak pula mereka mahu mengunakan perkataan ‘Allah’ kerana Kristian Barat sedar agama Kristian tidak sama dengan agama Islam.

            Dalam kata lain Kristian Barat tidak gunakan ‘Allah’ kerana tidak mahu para kongregasi mereka terkeliru. Namun, rambut sama hitam tetapi hati lain-lain’ makanya tidak hairanlah kalau Paderi Belanda menongkah arus dalam soal terjemahan.

            Meskipun perkataan Nigger dan Keling telah digunapakai berkurun lamanya, namun akhirnya ditukar jua. Maknanya, hendak seribu daya, tak hendak seribu alasan.

            Balas
          • 13. abdullah  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 1:32 pm

            atas pagar,

            Agama Kristian ini dianuti oleh pelbagai orang di merata dunia. Sebab itu, wujud banyak bible terjemahan ke bahasa lain. Perkataan yang dipilih untuk merujuk kepada Tuhan Kristian adalah bergantung kepada konteks pemakaian bible yang sudah diterjemah itu. Kalau bible itu untuk kegunaan Kristian di Barat, mestilah mereka tak gunakan perkataan Allah untuk merujuk kepada Tuhan Kristian sebab konteks pemakaian tidak sama dengan Kristian di Arab.

            Akhbar The Herald terbitan Roman Catholic Church di Malaysia ini mengandungi 4 edisi, iaitu Bahasa Inggeris, Mandarin, Tamil dan Bahasa Melayu. Kesemua edisi menggunakan perkataan yang berbeza untuk merujuk kepada Tuhan Kristian. Yang menjadi kontroversi adalah edisi Bahasa Melayu kerana menggunakan kalimah Allah. Edisi yang lain tiada masalah. Walaupun keempat-empat edisi menggunakan perkataan yang berbeza, perkataan itu adalah merujuk kepada Tuhan Kristian dan bukannya Tuhan agama yang lain. Lagipun, akhbar The Herald ini adalah cetakan dikhaskan untuk penganut Kristian di Malaysia dan bukannya penganut agama lain.

            Balas
  • 14. moya  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:34 am

    http://warnjohoe.multiply.com/journal/item/36/Sejarah-Kesultanan-Brunei?&show_interstitial=1&u=%2Fjournal%2Fitem

    Lihatlah pada Sultan Abdul Kahar (TM 1524 – 1530) dari salasilah kesultanan Brunei. Sepanyol sudah masuk dan conquer Pulau SALUDANG ( LUZON ), yang mana Sultan Sulaiman telah dikalahkan di Amanillah ( Manila ).

    Di sinilah bermulanya tulisan Bible yang berbahasa melayu dan menggunakan Allah untuk ‘memikat’ orang Melayu. Tetapi, Melayu di Brumei bukan sahaja membakar Bible tersebut, orang Sepanyol dikalahkan. Mereka bernasib baik dari orang2 Melayu-Islam di Pulau Saludang, Sibu ( Cebu ), mereka dipaksa dan di Philikan ( Putera Philip dari Sepanyol ).

    Bukan perkara baru orang melayu “terpaksa” “veto” perkataan Allah digunakan oleh ugama lain, kerana ini soal akidah. Jangan sentuh hal ini.

    Believe me, kalau cina-DAP yang kristian dah biasa guna perkataan “God” dan sekarang mau “test water” gunakan perkataan Allah dalam bible bahasa melayu, you will see unprecedented repurcussions. Tindakbalas dari pihak orang Islam akan lebih menyeluruh.

    Yang tak beri guna perkataan Allah ini bukan datang cuma dari ketua atau pemimpin UMNO atau PAS, para alim ulama orang Melayu-Islam telah bersuara. Ini bahaya kalau diteruskan.

    Budak2 brownshirt DAP di Penang tak cukup untuk kerja-kerja mereka, percayalah… just stop it. Jangan kocak air yang tenang….

    Balas
    • 15. oj  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:42 am

      setuju!!!

      Balas
      • 16. Zz  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:19 am

        Setuju!!! Yang nak berebut sangat perkataan ALLAH tu kenapa? Ada ke kat Vatican city dia orang guna nama ALLAH masa menyebut nama tuhan mereka atau dalam bible meraka? Ini kes ‘beri betis nak peha’. Sendiri mau faham….

        Balas
  • 17. atas pagar  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:54 am

    Kak Helen,

    13 Mei hanyalah satu tarikh dan sebagai satu tarikh ia tidak ada bezanya dengan lain-lain tarikh. Maknanya satu tarikh tidak sepatutnya menjadikan seseorang yang rasional tersentuh emosinya atau tersinggung perasaannya apabila tarikh tersebut disebut-sebut.

    Namun hakikatnya tidak begitu, ada pihak yang melihat tarikh lebih dari sekadar tarikh. Bagi pihak ini tarikh tertentu secara tidak sedar (subliminal) mengingatkan mereka terhadap sesuatu yang istimewa atau mungkin juga sesuatu yang tidak menyenangkan.

    Contohnya, ‘filem 13 Mei’ hanyalah sebuah lakonan yang memaparkan satu peristiwa yang telah didokumentasikan dan dicatatkan dalam sejarah. Sepatutnya tidak ada pihak yang melatah kalau filem sejarah dipaparkan di layar perak. Namun itu tidak berlaku, bantahan dibuat sebelum filem itu masuk panggung. Apa maknyanya? Sensitiviti mengatasi segala-galanya.

    Ini berbeza dengan Barat. Pengkarya Barat buat filem “innocence of Muslim” atas dasar mereka ada hak untuk berkarya. Meskipun filem berkenaan menyinggung perasaan pihak tertentu, ia tetap diteruskan tayangannya. Bagi Barat, hak pengkarya mengatasi kesensitifan mana-mana pihak. Hak pengkarya mengatasi hak masyarakat terbanyak.

    Namun, dalam masa sama Barat juga hipokrit. Kehipokritan mereka terserlah apabila mereka fobiakan perkataan Osama atau semirip nama berkenaan. Kalau ada filem super hero “Osama penentang kejahatan Barat” ditayangkan di mana-mana tak tahulah apa reaksi mereka.

    Justeru apakah orang Timur hendak ikut Barat atau tidak dalam soal hak dan kepekaan? Kalau, Timur hendak ikut Barat… hak berkarya mengatasi kepekaan masyarakat… pastikan jangan ada hipokrasi dan double standard. Maksudnya benarkanlah filem Tanda Putera memasuki panggung sebagai bukti semua pihak adalah terbuka dan memiliki hati batu.

    Dan oleh kerana LPF tidak ikut Barat dan masih berpegang kepada prinsip kepekaan masyarakat mengatasi kebesan berkarya… tidak ikut Barat… makanya kalau nak tunggu Tanda Putera masuk panggung, pastikan kucing bertanduk terlebih dahulu. Dan OKM kenalah tunggu kucing bertanduk kalau pendapatnya itu mahu diterima seadanya.

    Balas
  • 18. Waris Malaya  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 2:29 am

    OKM is #DAPsterCancer. Just one alphabet away from PKM.

    Balas
  • 19. Yang Sudah Melihat Sendiri 'Syaitan bertopengkan Nama Gerakan Islam'  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 3:50 am

    apa nak dikatakan ttg ini lagi wahai orang muslim dan majoritinya orang Melayu (harus ditegaskan juga kerana ini fakta, orang muslim di negara ini majoriti adalah melayu). Bagaimana nak dipertahan dan dijelaskan apabila golongan2 seperti OKM ini didukungi oleh orang2 melayu dan muslim yang sealiran fikiran seperti mereka, atas nama liberalisma dan juga dasar hak asasi manusia. Tidak hairan golongan seperti OKM akan menjadi lebih berani dan kuat kerana ada dokongan oleh orang melayu muslim yang “sesat” kerana ingin ‘diterima’ oleh golongan seperti OKM.

    Lihat dengan jelas di situ “hanya Muslim rapuh iman …” tentu sekali, tanpa perlu kita fikirkan, sekiranya yang sudah kuat imannya, dengan izinNya tidak akan mudah terpengaruh dengan ajaran2 lain, namun isu disini adalah mereka yang tidak kental iman, yang rapuh atau agak rapuh, golongan2 ini yang mudah keliru dan harus dilindungi – dan bukan sahaja dalam Islam malah golongan Kristian jugak misinya adalah untuk meramaikan penganut masing2, termasuklah kumpulan penganut yg lain.

    isunya, mengapa kini digembar-gemburkan? mengapa kini diinginkan sangat pemakaian nama Allah ini yang selama ini mutlak eksklusitivitinya kepada orang2 muslim. Mana2 di dunia, nescaya Tanah Arab sendiri tempat lahirnya agama Islam dan terdapat juga penganut2 agama lain – meski menggunakan bahasa Arab tidak menggunakan nama Allah selain Islam. Didalam kita injil itu tidak pernah wujud nama Allah, kerana mereka mengakui nama Allah itu mutlak rujukannya kepada agama Islam.

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    • 20. abdullah  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:25 pm

      “mengapa kini diinginkan sangat pemakaian nama Allah ini yang selama ini mutlak eksklusitivitinya kepada orang2 muslim.”

      Pernyataan anda tidak tepat. Golongan bukan Islam di Timur Tengah juga menggunakan perkataan Allah untuk merujuk kepada tuhan masing-masing. Sama juga dengan orang bukan Islam di Indonesia. Kerajaan di negara-negara Timur Tengah dan Indonesia tiada halangan terhadap orang bukan Islam menggunakan perkataan Allah. Lagipun, Islam muncul lebih lewat daripada perkataan Allah itu sendiri.

      Lagipun, hanya orang Islam Malaysia sahaja yang menuntut hak mutlak ke atas perkataan tersebut tetapi orang Islam di Indonesia dan Timur Tengah tidak berbuat demikian. Adakah ini bermakna tahap keislaman golongan Muslim di Malaysia ini lebih tinggi daripada orang Islam di Indonesia dan Timur Tengah? Padahal semua orang Islam menyembah tuhan yang sama dan membaca Quran yang sama. Mengapa orang Islam Malaysia tersinggung dengan orang bukan Islam menggunakan perkataan Allah tetapi orang Islam Indonesia dan Timur Tengah tiada masalah.

      Selain daripada mentafsir isu ini dalam konteks Malaysia sahaja, ada baiknya jika orang Islam Malaysia dapat melihat bagaimana saudara mereka di negara lain menangani isu yang sama.

      Balas
      • 21. atas pagar  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 3:18 pm

        Sebagaimana Helen katakan politikus kristian di negara yang anda sebutkan tidak mencemari masjid dan mereka juga tidak berkehendakan hudud.

        Di sini, politikus kristian bukan saja memasuki masjid tapi menyokong hudud walhal dalam masa sama membolot hutan balak untuk mengkayakan lagi diri sendiri.

        Makanya kalau didapati berlaku penyalahgunaan kuasa, hukuman apa yang hendak dikenakan pada mereka? Konvensional atau apa?

        Balas
        • 22. abdullah  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:52 pm

          atas pagar,

          Kalau macam itu, bukankah penguasa politik sekarang sepatutnya mengambil tindakan terhadap politikus Kristian yang mencemari masjid? Mengapa hendak dinafikan hak penganut Kristian majoriti yang lain hanya kerana tindakan segelintir politikus? Bukankah ini sama seperti menghukum orang yang tidak bersalah? Adakah ini waras?

          Adakah terhadap apa-apa peraturan di negara kita bahawa golongan Kristian tidak boleh memasuki masjid? Kalau tiada larangan undang-undang, apa salahnya masuk masjid?

          Kalau ada peruntukan undang-undang, mengapa tiada tindakan di ambil terhadap golongan politikus evangelista yang pernah memasuki masjid? Adakah kerajaan sedang tidur?

          Balas
          • 23. atas pagar  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 12:14 am

            Abdullah,

            Tindakan apa yang kamu nak cadangkan kepada KM Pulau Mutiara untuk diambil terhadap politikus yang mencemari masjid dengan ‘khutbah’ politik?

            Tindakan apa yang kamu nak cadangkan kepada MB Darul Ehsan untuk diambil terhadap politikus yang menggunakan masjid untuk menyebarkan dakyah politik partisan yang menjurus kepada perpecahan umat?

            Berilah cadangan…

            Balas
          • 24. abdullah  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:00 pm

            atas pagar,

            Prinsip undang-undang asas adalah jika sesuatu itu tidak dilarang, maka ia dibenarkan. Saya lihat tiada tindakan yang diambil terhadap orang berikut:-

            1. bukan Islam memasuki kawasan masjid;
            2. menggunakan masjid untuk dakyah politik.

            Walaupun kamu meminta cadangan walau dari sesiapa pun, ini bukan penyelesaiannya. Kena rujuk pada Enakmen Islam negeri yang berkaitan sama ada di Selangor atau Penang untuk mengetahui apakah hukuman untuk tindakan di atas.

            Saya lihat langsung tiada tindakan undang-undang di ambil ke atas orang-orang tersebut. Saya kira perbuatan mereka itu bukanlah suatu kesalahan di bawah mana-mana Enakmen Islam. Saya minta jasa baik mana-mana pembaca untuk membetulkan kesilapan saya, sekiranya ada.

            Sesiapa yang bersalah, dialah yang patut dihukum. Kalau golongan evangelista memasuki masjid dan berkhutbah, hukumlah mereka. Mengapa nak hukum golongan majoriti Kristian lain yang tidak bersalah dengan melarang mereka menggunakan kalimah Allah?

            Balas
          • 25. atas pagar  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 3:19 am

            Abdullah,

            adakalanya warga terbanyak harus membayar harga yang tinggi bagi kesalahan yang dilakukan oleh segelintir pihak. contoh klasik adalah berkaitan Amanah Hadi. Seorang politikus buat amanat, satu dunia ummah malaya tanggung ‘dosa’nya.

            Balas
          • 26. abdullah  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 1:18 pm

            atas pagar,

            Maksudnya kamu setuju untuk menghukum majoriti penganut Kristian terutamanya Sabah Sarawak dengan tidak membenarkan mereka menggunakan kalimah Allah hanya kerana perbuatan segelintir minoriti politikus evangelista yang masuk dan mencemari masjid dengan politik kepartian? Adakah ini prinsip undang-undang yang adil. Lagipun, tiada peruntukan undang-undang yang ‘menjenayahkan’ perbuatan orang bukan Islam memasuki masjid.

            Tidakkah kamu rasa perbuatan ini tiada asas keadilan?

            Merujuk kepada amanat Hadi, boleh terangkan apakah dosa yang ditangguang oleh umat Islam? Mengapa tiada tindakan undang-undang di ambil terhadap Hadi walaupun sudah sekian lama? Adakah perbuatannya melanggar atau tidak melanggar undang-undang negara?

            Balas
  • 27. vesper  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 4:14 am

    All this to divert the land scandal, did the diversion work well?

    Balas
  • 28. ASH  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Helen,

    Name of the games ?

    1. Strategi DAP hanya untuk pertahankan Pulau Pinang dan mendapat lebih kerusi di Sarawak .They realise that no way PR can capture Putrajaya . Mereka tahu isu nama Allah akan menjejaskan undi Melayu kepada PAS dan PKR . If they really concern about PAS and PKR isu ini tak akan dimainkan ,dalam kata lain pergi jahanam lah melayu PAS and PKR .Sama seperti pemilihan CEC DAP baru baru ini.

    2. DAP akan menjadi sebuah parti ugama ,mungkin bertukar kepada Christian Democratic Party sebab pejuangan lebih kepada isu isu agama dan penyokong pun dah sanggup BERPUASA untuk parti di Dataran Merdeka .

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  • 29. I.D.A  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:25 am

    cina dapster tak paham satu perkara; org islam (majoriti melayu) tak takut mati kerana membela agama… kononnya nak test water, adakah kualiti umat islam sama seperti buih-buih. banyak tapi lemah. tengoklah nanti; undergrown @ uppergrown akan bersatu memerangi cina dapster. masa tu nasi akan jadi bubur….

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  • 30. Ahmad Ibrahim  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:34 am

    if non Muslims want to use the word Allah, sure can go ahead, but on one condition : embrace Islam. after that you can use the word whatever way you deem it fit.
    now are the Dapters willing to embrace Islam ?

    why ? fear of circumcision ?

    you want to use the word Allah ? fine. I repeat. you just do one, one thing only. embrace Islam. convert. can you do that Dapsters ? can you ?

    don’t tell me you fear………….err ?

    Balas
    • 31. mr. moderate  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 12:50 pm

      Dear Ahmad Ibrahim,

      I would say your suggestion is a bit extreme. You could have belittled the word Allah by saying “after that you can use the word whatever way you deem it fit.” Do you mean the word Allah can be used to denote something else other than god? Like table or chair?

      Please bear in mind that the word Allah precedes Islam, i.e. the word was already in used before the religion of Islam came into existence. People in Middle East used the word Allah to refer to their respective gods. Even the Sabah Sarawak Christians have used the word before Malaysia was formed.

      Sometimes we have to benchmark our actions with our counterparts around the world. Why the Muslims around the world (in Indonesia and Middle East) do not claim exclusivity of the word? Seems like the Muslims in Malaysia have less tolerance in relation to the Muslims in other countries. Why the non-Muslims in other countries are allowed to use the word but the Christians in Malaysia are not allowed to?

      Balas
      • 32. The International Jew  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:13 pm

        he said something not to your liking and you called him extreme. you are the typical opposition supporter. you sure love to put labels on other people.

        as Helen has said countless time, its the context in which the word is used that makes it offensive to Muslims. but to you and people like you, anything goes. the end justifies the means.

        Balas
        • 33. Helen Ang  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm

          Might as well Helen clarify her view.

          The dispute can go off on several tangents of argument but perhaps it boils down to this:

          When the Sabah and Sarawak pribumi, when the Baba-Nyonyas and when the Sikhs use the word, the Malays may not take so much offence because there is goodwill.

          (1) Sabahans and Sarawakians speak Malay and belong to the same ethnic stock (if we take a wider definition).

          (2) Baba and Nyonyas speak Malay too and have historically assimilated.

          (3) The Sikhs do not tramp into mosques like the evangelistas to politick and the Sikhs do not endeavour to convert Malays to Sikhism. I’ve also not heard them calling other folks “low class” unlike the DAP evangelist pollies and their apparatchik.

          If the non-Malay speaking evangelists in the peninsula arguing about Allah today are anything like the above 3 groups, then the issue would not reach the proportions that it has.

          So it’s in part (a large part) a people relationship problem and the more the pro-opposition supporters argue, the deeper the Malays will dig in their heels.

          In the past the Muslims might have might be willing to be tolerant of the practice (as has been done the last half century as claimed) but looking at the evangelist berbelit-belit behaviour today …

          Balas
          • 34. mr. moderate  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:55 pm

            Dear Helen,

            Are you saying that the majority has to be punished or deprived of their rights to use the word Allah just because of the action of selected few evangelistas minority? To me, this is not fair. The government should go ahead and reprimand the so-called evangelistas and not to prohibit the Christians, Baba-Nyonyas and Sikhs from using the word Allah which they have been using even before Merdeka. Tackle the root cause of the problem, i.e. the evangelistas and don’t impose a blanket ruling to disallow the use of the word Allah on the majority Christians, Baba-Nyonyas and Sikhs. Don’t you agree?

            Balas
          • 35. Goondoo  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:13 pm

            Helen,

            In this “Allah” issue, I like to recall my encounter with a Christian lady in a University Student Union Hall, UK 30 years ago. This Christian lady was trying to sell Arab Christian Books. Out of curiosity, I asked this lady why she was selling Christian books with the word Allah printed next to the cross in the front cover?

            It was quite a surprise to me when she told me that Christian Arabs call their God as Allah too.

            On the argument that the Christians Arab , the Indonesians and the Sarawak/Sabah bumiputeras had been using the word “Allah” as “GOD” for centuries . Does this justifiable for the rest of the Christians in Malaysia to use “Allah” as “GOD” too.

            My view that depend on the intention. If they intend to use as discrete as the Sikh, the Nyonyas and Babas… the Malays will not take offence. But if they intend to publicise and promote like the Indonesian Christians by using common words such as “RUMAH ALLAH” to denote church, KITAB ALLAH to denote Bible…they are looking for trouble or maybe they purposely looking for trouble..

            I am worried if this is allowed, another fault line will be created in the next few years in Malaysia..Religious especially religious conversion among the Malays is very sensitive issue. Why provoke ? I believe someone do have a sinister plan to capitalise this issue for their benefits if the country goes down to the drain by agitating the religious tension It was done on purpose, I think?

            Balas
        • 36. mr. moderate  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:45 pm

          Dear TIJ,

          There is big difference between labeling a person as ‘extreme’ as opposed to labeling a statement as ‘extreme’. There is no way for me to know the actual personality of the writer, i.e. Ahmad Ibrahim that wrote this statement “after that you can use the word whatever way you deem it fit.” Hence, I am looking at the context of the statement itself. Bear in mind that the word Allah is sacred. Whether the Muslims, Christians, Sikhs etc in any part of the world, the word is used to denote their respective god. Hence for Ahmad Ibrahim to suggest that the word Allah “can be used in whatever way you deem it fit” is a perversion.

          You said “its the context in which the word is used that makes it offensive to Muslims.” Mind to explain? Are the non-Muslims currently using the word Allah in a different context than it was say 20 or 30 years ago? And how is that offensive to Muslims now?

          Many thanks.

          Balas
          • 37. Helen Ang  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 2:12 pm

            When a Malay friend previously asked me what I’d proposed, I said tutup sebelah mata aje lah.

            That was during the first round 2009-2010.

            Today the live-and-let-live option is no longer on the table.

            You say for the government to reprimand the so-called evangelistas. It’s not possible anymore. Dema tak bisa diajak berbincang apatah lagi untuk bertolak ansur.

            They (opposition) are resorting to street demos. Very soon force will be met with force. LGE and his people are playing with fire.

            Whatever comes after this, history will note that he lit the match on 24 Dec 2012.

            Balas
          • 38. mr.moderate  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:08 pm

            Dear Helen, readers and commenters,

            Let me be straight forward:-

            1. Do you agree that the majority of Christians in Malaysia should be ‘punished’, i.e. to be deprived of their rights to use the word Allah just because of the actions of selected few evangelistas?

            2. Do you agree that in the spirit of freedom of religion, a faith should not be allowed to dictate terms on another religion?

            Balas
          • 39. atas pagar  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 12:58 am

            Moderate,

            The issue here is not about not allowing non Muslims to practice this and that. It is you who see it as the issue here.

            So what punishment are you talking about?

            What I can understand, the issue here is centered around the printing and publication act.

            As we already know, not every can just simply print books and distribute it for public consumption.

            Balas
          • 40. moderate  |  Januari 5, 2013 at 1:20 pm

            atas pagar,

            “What I can understand, the issue here is centered around the printing and publication act.

            As we already know, not every can just simply print books and distribute it for public consumption.”

            Would appreciate if you can enlighten us on the relevant provisions in the said Act that disallow “simply print books and distribute it for public consumption.” Since you are capable of mentioning the Act, I trust you will be able to point out the relevant provisions therein.

            Balas
          • 41. mr. moderate  |  Januari 5, 2013 at 1:23 pm

            Dear Helen,

            I am still awaiting your reply on my comment dated Januari 2, 2013 at 10:08 pm.

            Would appreciate your feedback.

            Thanks.

            Balas
  • 42. zul  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:55 am

    If all Christians in MALAYSIA agree to change the word GOD to ALLAH in all BIBLEs eg english,chinese,spanish,latin then i will allow them to use translation of GOD to ALLAH.. GOD is a translation of TUHAN but ALLAH is ALLAH..

    Balas
  • 43. zul  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:55 am

    please refer to all dictionary in the world please find the meaning of ALLAH..

    Balas
  • 44. marhaeman  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    Helen,

    Konflik antara Palestin dan Israel bukanlah berpunca dari perebutan ke atas dua keeping tanah atau seumpama perebutan ke atas Pulau Batu Putih atau Pulau Falkland tetapi konflik berkenaan timbul kerana apa yang diperebutkan adalah perkara yang bersangkut paut dengan kesucian dalam agama. Kalau setakat perebutan sekeping tanah tentunya konflik berkenaan telah lama selesai. Betulakan?

    Justeru, apakah tidak ada pihak setakat ini yang telah tampil dengan idea atau cadangan atau apa saja untuk membantu menyelesaikan pertikaian dan seterusnya menghentikan konflik berdarah Palestin-Israel dari berterus-terusan? Jawapan adalah, ada. Malah, bukan sedikit keringat yang tumpah dan bukan sedikit masa yang terbuang di pihak PBB dan kuasa-kuasa besar tetapi semuanya seolah-olah sia-sia belaka. Makanya di mana salah dan silapnya mereka? Apakah PBB tidak ada idea? Apakah US tidak ada otak? Apakah OIC tidak ada mata?

    Jawapannya jelas sekali iaitu PBB ada idea tetapi dalam isu ini, idea PBB tidak boleh pakai malah ditolak secara sinis. US ada otak tetapi otak berkenaan bukanlah otak tengah tetapi otak yang berat sebelah yakni kalau otak US diletakkan dalam air otak berkenaan akan senget sebelah Israel. “Oh I see” ada mata tetapi ‘berat mata memandang, berat lagi bahu memikul’.

    Ini bermaksud, tidak ada isu yang sepatutnya tidak boleh diselesaikan tetapi realiti sejarah menunjukkan ada negara yang sanggup mati kerana berebutkan sebuah pulau; ada bangsa yang sanggup bergolok bergadai untuk menuntut sekeping tanah yang telah jadi milik orang lain tetapi kerana berasakan tanah berkenaan dahulunya menempatkan kuil lalu ianya dituntut dari pemilik sekarang.

    Bagi politikus oportunis, mereka seolah-olah amat yakin dengan hanya menggunakan air liur sebagai modal atau mengulang pakai idea gagal, mereka berharap dapat mengatasi perkara yang kompleks. Walhal isu yang kompleks tidak mampu diselesaikan diselesaikan dengan semburan air liur atau pengitaran semula idea yang telah lapuk dan telah terbukti gagal.

    Kalau semua itu dibuat kerana ikhlas dan ‘tiada udang sebalik batu’ maka tidaklah ianya memburukkan keadaan. Tetapi apabila isu ini dimainkan oleh parti yang terang-terang menolak Muslim dalam pemilihan jawatan tertinggi parti mereka baru-baru ini, Dap otomatik hilang meritnya dalam isu sebegini.

    Balas
  • 45. I'm A  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    They can use yesus for jesus, y dun fight to use Isa too??…
    why want to translate God to Allah?…..y dun they use tuhan bapak or sumthin since they acknowledge jesus as son of god??

    Allah as muslim acknowledge, not breeding nor bred. They should respect that.

    Balas
  • 46. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Helen,

    Many people simply refuse to see that the sharing of name actually affects the very core foundation of Islam. It is not a linguistic issue.

    “lulus jarum luluslah kelindan”. It is a Mala y saying reminding us about the wisdom to ‘read between the line’. The cry accusing that Christians are denied rights are mere facade to hide the real intention.

    What is the implication. Once Christians are allowed to use the word, sure enough Pastors will proudly say “samalah ugama kita. Nama Tuhan pun sama”.

    My advice to UMNO is this: If you want to taste the life as “irrelevant Malay poltical party, then support the Christians to use the word. Then UMNO weill be rejected in massive scale. If UMNO doies not want that, with power in its hand, object the idea. Be firm about that.

    No need to advise PAS as it has been reduced as a “vassal” to Father Guan eng.

    Balas
  • 47. babyatma  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Vatican should decide on this.

    Muslims should send letters to the Vatican City to ask for clarifications. Just one small strategy.

    If want it to be bigger, get as many muslims all over the world to make their stand on this and issue a statement and demand Vatican City to answer this confusion among the Malaysian-Christians. We have twitter, fb, blogs, portals, google+ etc. Use it if you want to.

    Ulamak-ulamak Christian and Jesus fearing priests in Malaysia, sepatutnya jawab dan jangan biarkan closeted christians like LGE and other politicians continue to confuse the already confused christians.

    Balas
  • 48. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Babyatma,

    I am afraid that is impossible as no Muslims regard the Pope to have authority over this matter. Besides, Muslims are already forewarn in Al-Quran that Christians would only be satisfied if Mulims submit to their ways.

    What required is actually very simple. All that is required is for Muslims to unite. Tell Guan Eng that he can forget any votes from Muslims should he insist on the word.

    Easier said than done. The trouble is PAS is willing to sacrifice islam to earn Christian votes

    Balas
    • 49. I.D.A  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:23 pm

      PAS can GTH!

      Balas
    • 50. lan  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:57 pm

      Khas untuk orang kristien sabah dan sarawak,aku setuju mereka gunakan perkataan allah sebab ada perbezaan antara bahasa melayu semenanjung dan bahasa melayu sabah dan sarawak.

      kita keluar sekejap dari isu agama.contoh daripada bahasa melayu sarawak…sungguh kacak kereta itu.wanita di dalam kereta itu pun sungguh kacak…dalam bahasa melayu semenanjung,ayat diatas menimbulkan kekeliruan bagi melayu semenanjung tetapi tidak diangap satu kesalahan tatabahasa dalam bahasa melayu sarawak.

      kita sebagai melayu-islam yang bangga dengan keagungan empayar melaka sebagai kerajaan islam timur, kita mestilah mengunakan tulisan jawi dalam terjemahan al quran dan galakkan melayu muslim menguasai tulisan jawi dan wujudkan perbezaan yang ketara bagi terjemahan kedua dua kitab suci (holy scripture) supaya kita dapat menghormati antara satu sama lain

      Balas
    • 51. abdullah  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 9:58 pm

      SA,

      “I am afraid that is impossible as no Muslims regard the Pope to have authority over this matter.”

      Good point. A faith has no jurisdiction over another faith and this is what we called as freedom of religion. No religion should be allowed to interfere or dictate terms on another religion. On the same basis, I would say that the Muslims in Malaysia have no authority or jurisdiction on how the Christians in Malaysia should practice their faith. Don’t you agree with me?

      Balas
      • 52. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 12:11 am

        Abdullah,

        Then perhaps you are not aware that our Constitution clearly spells that the religion of non Islamic faiths are to be practised in a way that do not disturb or offending to Muslims.

        And I am afraid you are wrong to assume that Muslims trying to force how Christians should practised their religions. It is the other way around. It is the extremist Christians fanatics who are so overzealous and refuse to appreciate that Muslims view the issue as affecting the very foundation of the religion.

        Which part of Christian teachings that are “disturbed’ by Muslims? Do tell me.

        May i enlighten you on this verse ‘Lakum di nukum waliyadi..” Meaning literally “my religion onto me, your religion onto you’. Being submissive when the religion is under threat is not a sign of wisdom or respecting the freedom of religion. rather, from Islam viewpoint, it is the manifastation of “derhaka” to allah SWT.

        Balas
        • 53. Kelvin Grove  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 10:38 pm

          Now Abdullah , you use Abdullah name eventhough previously you didnt use the name to associate yourself with Arabic name. How phatetic!

          Balas
          • 54. Abdullah  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 12:12 am

            hey KG,

            Who are you to make conclusion on my identity and also to my name? On what basis you alleged that “eventhough previously you didnt use the name to associate yourself with Arabic name.” Do you know me personally? Have we met before?

            I challenge you to produce proof that previously I didn’t use the name Abdullah. Which occasion is that? What name I was using back then?

            Otherwise, you should really focus on the comments of the readers instead of making baseless accusations on other
            people’s identity.

            Balas
        • 55. Abdullah  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 12:03 am

          SA,

          Please point out to me which article of the Constitution that says “the religion of non Islamic faiths are to be practised in a way that do not disturb or offending to Muslims.”

          What I know is that non-Muslims are not allowed to propagate their religion on the Muslims.

          Let me see the basis of your interpretation in light of the relevant provisions of the Constitution.

          Many thanks.

          Balas
        • 56. Abdullah  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 12:25 am

          SA,

          You asked “Which part of Christian teachings that are “disturbed’ by Muslims? Do tell me.”

          Who is trying to impose terms on whom? The Muslims are the one that is trying to do so. Christians have been using the word in their Bahasa version of bible since before Merdeka. Who is trying to change the status quo?

          One simple question. If muslims know that there is this church that is conducting prayers in Bahasa and using the word Allah to refer to Christian god, what the muslims should do?

          a. stay away from the church and let the Christians pray in the manner they want to; or
          b. ask the church to stop using the word Allah.

          Why can’t the Muslims choose (a)?

          Balas
  • 57. anakjamil  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    if the evangelists really have no hidden agenda, maybe they should consider this ..

    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=47974

    If the Pope even refers to God ( for Christians) as ‘Al-Rab’ instead of ‘Allah’ surely something is weirdly wrong here in Malaysia.

    Oh Crusaders of Jerusubang – Just give it a rest will ya!

    Balas
  • 59. anakjamil  |  Januari 2, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    by the way …using ‘Allah’ is a tool for evangelism. It’s called ‘Camel Training Evangelism’.. http://standupforthetruth.com/files/2012/04/PEACE-Camel-Training-Final-2.pdf

    Balas
  • 60. Nik  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 12:58 am

    Majority of the Muslim cannot accept the Malaysian Church demand into naming their nameless biblical god into Allah is because the Christian have always adopt an idea of the Supreme God have an offspring (another God?). This is the obvious contradiction to the Muslim belief of the Oneness of the Creator. Didn’t the Christian love to belief that a true God should really be One God only?

    The Allah name is an Arabic word originated during Prophet Muhammad time BUT the Jahilliah (non Muslim) Arabs had many many god such as Latta, uzza etc. and not a single Arabic paganistic idol was named as Allah. In the hadith tradition even the Arab Christian missionary that came to see the Prophet for a debate do not accept Allah as their God. For that since when does these people claimed the Arabic Christian had eventually use Allah name in their Bible? What joke does these people are trying to pull? Pls google and see ..the only “Arab” priest that you will see is the Sabahan & Sarawakian.

    A true belief is supposed to be in their original form regardless of time and place. There are no other faiths in the world that really championed these very unique ethical faith of Islam. In fact what we saw today is other faiths or “religious” belief which is still lacking the most needed component to compliment their religion truth? Isn’t it funny ? Religion is not supposed to be an R& D product that need to improvised from time to time. I can tell you that even the infamous “In the name of the Father , the son and the Holy Ghost” was not even part of the New or Old Testament. Was not even part of the Holy Bible words and not a God words. Who created it and wrote its then? And now they want to use Allah name and you got the guts to tell the Muslim and Christian followers that this is the true religion?

    To be a globally acceptable faiths, a true religion is supposed to be in complete original form that must not tend to evolutionize and copycat from other faith. Seems like the Sabahan Christian belief had a “dash” of Darwinism in their belief !! Charles Darwin a renown scientist who proclaimed that human evolved from monkeys. A typical Asian will always seek an “ori” BUT why choose to belief Christian faith whose “God” is strategically being modified into Allah as your God? Do they know that Allah name is Arabic in nature? And do they realized that Christian faith is not Arabic in nature? Doesn’t you people feel funny accepting this modified version faith, any belief that in need of modification from time to time is remarkably full of errors. If this is an experiment then you people are the guinea pig. Do you love to be used as other people tools ?

    Just imagine in the past Allah name is a NO NO NO to them but now they have gone into the extremity to use the constitutional court order. But since the MALAYSIAN CHRISTIAN love Allah name so much would you care to see the words of Allah too? We call the words Al Quran, would you believe in the Al Quran too? When the Christian claimed that their Holy Bible as God’s word did you really meant it? What do you called the book now when the words God or Father or Lord had been strategically changed by a mortal hand call the scribes by the Holy Bible.

    You may want to refer to Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say that we are wise and the law of the Lords (Allah ???) is with us, BUT behold the SCRIBES had made it false to turn it into a lie.

    It is a BIG LIE alright, first of all if you change the word Lord here to become Allah any Muslim child can tell you that is not true. Sober up your mind and see the whole truth!!! Didn’t the text in JEREMIAH 8:8 REALLY TRANSLATE OF WHAT THE MALAYSIAN CHRISTIAN PRIEST ARE DOING TODAY?

    Wake up people !!! The true facts is LIARS cannot teach you the truth as simple as that.

    Balas
  • 61. Mat  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 8:26 am

    The word God is a noun (katanama) in English. A noun when translated into another language is still a noun. How can god, when translated into Malay, means Allah, a proper noun (katanama khas); and guess what, it only happens in when translated in Malay.

    It is just a plain STUPID in the part of the so called Anglicised chauvinist.

    The word Allah by Himself means The One And The Only One! For precise definition refer to Quran surah Al-Ikhlas. How can when used in Malay Bible, it means otherwise; the trinity?

    That’s why the muslim see this is intentional!

    Balas
    • 62. The International Jew  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:13 am

      that’s what I meant when I said “context”. the whole charade is for all to see but as always the opposition hacks will twist the argument by saying that the whole issue concerns free speech and blah blah blah. Allah clearly is the opposite of the Trinity. you could see through the whole charade. these people are clearly out to say that Allah = Trinity.

      Balas
  • 63. Hussin Rahman  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Kasi pancung jer dia orang ni.

    Balas
  • 64. Hussin Rahman  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:24 am

    As true Christians, the people advocating the word Allah in their Bible distributed in Malaysia are not practising the spirit of Christianity, which is to love everybody and not to offend anybody. We Muslims, anywhere in the world, never try to disturb any Christian or any follower of any faith in doing their religious duties. So why must some Christians in Malaysia want to persist in getting their way? Haven’t they learnt from history, the bloodshed and enmity between Muslims and Christians, which were mostly due to the aggression and oppression started by Christians. Do some of the Christians in Malaysia want to see their churches burnt down or their followers killed? Are they inviting the wrath of Allah upon them?

    Balas
  • 65. Hussin Rahman  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:35 am

    I suggest the belligerent Malaysian Christians who want to use the word Allah in their Bibles here can call their god Terence or Bud. The names come from the actors who featured in one of my favourite movies, that spaghetti Western ” My Name Is Trinity”. The film’s main actors were Terence Hill and Bud Spencer.

    Balas
    • 66. Hussin Rahman  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 11:45 am

      Saya juga berminat dengan sebuah filem tempatan, Kongsi. Dalam filem itu ada dialog: ” Lu langsi, Lu mati.”

      Balas
  • 67. Kelvin Grove  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Ya betul! kenapa org kristian mau guna perkataan ini dalam bahasa melayu? 300 tahun tak bermakna penggunaan kamu itu betul.

    Apakah ugama kristian versi melayu berasal dari Indonesia? Adakah ugama kristian boleh berubah-ubah?

    Kenapa tak di standardize diguna dalam bahasa inggeris, cina, tamil, benggali, dll? bahasa thai macam mana pulak? Bahasa Filipina atau Jepun???

    Dalam banyak-banyak istilah bahasa indonesia yang tak sama dgn bahasa melayu, tapi perkataan ini pulak yang sama!! Give me a break. What happen to Father Pakiam etc.

    To all christians, dont insult your own intelligence and please use your brain properly. Even tadika kids can figure out what has been going on around here. Christians are putting their religion and people at the lowest point on ground. Macam-macam ragam kau orang kat dunia nih!! Cukup cukup la buat perbuatan yang tak betul dan merosakkan manusia manusia lain. Cukup cukup la bawak manusia kepada kehancuran masa depan manusia di dunia ini. OK!

    Balas
    • 68. Malaysian  |  Januari 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm

      KG,

      “Ya betul! kenapa org kristian mau guna perkataan ini dalam bahasa melayu? 300 tahun tak bermakna penggunaan kamu itu betul.”

      Atas dasar apa kamu nak mempertikaikan bagaimana agama lain menyembah tuhan mereka?

      Balas
  • 69. Kelvin Grove  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Nampaknya orang kristian bergantung sangat kepada orang Sabah & Sarawak (org Iban/ Kadazan/ Melanau/ Murut dll) untuk melakar kepercayaan ugama kristian mereka di semenanjung. Mereka bergantung kepada orang Indonesia untuk mencipta istilah agama kristian yang baru. Ini betul-betul tak masuk akal.

    Kenapa orang kristian tidak dapat berfikir secara lebih alamiah lagi?

    Apakah mereka menipu kepada diri sendiri dan manusia di luar sana? Points to ponder!

    Balas
    • 70. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 6:18 pm

      Kelvin Grove,

      Correction. Ordinary Kadazan or iban folks even when asked say they worship Jesus . It is DAP together with over zealous Christian churches that portray that christianity is under siege.

      with due respect to christianity, Islam’s record is a model of benevolence. For centuries, Jews found refuge in Muslim ruled territories whenever they were persecuted by Christian Kingdom. And Christianity was forced upon many natives in Latin america and Asia.

      Why the insistence to using “Allah’. Contrary to other races, Muslims are quite difficult to embrace Christianity due to one factor: that is the belief on One God ONLY However bad a muslim is, if he has a shred of faith, he cant accept the concept of Trinity.

      Sharing the same name will eventually “soften” the heart. “nama tuhan pun sama. Jadi samalah ugama kita’.

      Saying that is the start of the destruction of the very foundation of Islam. It is far worse than Portuegese invasion of Malacca or the collapse of Ottoman Empire.

      But again, many politicians find that a good bargain. For useless Muslim politicians namely from PAS and PKR, selling religion is “berbaloi”. Until they meet angels six feet under the ground.

      May Allah in his infinite Mercy guides Muslims along the way to resist the challenge led by Father Joseph Lim. Due to faith in Islam, Malays were then able to resist Malayan Union proposed by an empire , largest ever known, that had just won the World War.

      May the faith remains. Reject the sharing of name due to “faith’ as it is the right thing to do.

      Balas
  • 71. Kelvin Grove  |  Januari 3, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    “Sharing the same name will eventually “soften” the heart. “nama tuhan pun sama. Jadi samalah ugama kita’.”

    I think thats the point Shamsul.

    Thanks to brotherhood & sisterhood established among the Pakatan.

    My hypothesis is they feel they can now calling/convert other malay muslims to christianity after receiving the warmth ‘welcome’ & supports by the Pakatan members of Muslim malays. And so they find easy to penetrate the malay community by having the same name of Allah.

    Wallahualam

    Balas
  • 72. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 4, 2013 at 9:09 am

    Kelvin Grove,

    Yup. Precisely. The only thing that stands againts Christian preachers from converting Muslims to christianity is a simple belief by muslims that there is ONLY ONE GOD.

    Naturally people would think that the religions are same( Islam and Christianity) if the name of God also shared.

    Aptly reminded by a beautiful Malay saying “lulus jarum luluslah kelindan”. Meaning “do read between the line’. And by no less the AlQuran itself , reminding Muslims that Christians and Jews will never satisfy until Muslims submit to them .

    So, what say you Hadi of PAS? Firm in rejecting the call by Christian pastors and you will be condemned as “narrow minded” and “insecure’ BUT bi doing that you will be seen as defending aqidah.

    OR tacitly approve the the Christian pastors move and be hailed as “moderate Muslims”. But by doing that you sacrifice Islam and you maybe surprise that one day your own grandson says “I worship allah, Tuhan Bapa…”.

    Perhaps you should think the answer you should give six feet under the ground before giving the much awaited response.

    Balas
    • 73. mr. moderate  |  Januari 5, 2013 at 3:30 pm

      SA,

      “Naturally people would think that the religions are same( Islam and Christianity) if the name of God also shared.”

      Do you think the people will be so gullible, whether they are Muslims or Christians. No doubt the name may be same, but the underlying concept or identity behind the name is different. A Toyota is a car. A Proton is also a car. Are both the same in your eyes? Surely not. Unless you have never see a car in your life.

      For a follower of a faith, he knows to whom he is praying to irrespective of the name whether it is Allah, Tuhan, God, Goddess, Deity, Dewa and what not. If he is confused, then he is not a true believer of a faith.

      Balas
      • 74. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 6, 2013 at 9:18 pm

        Mr Moderate,

        Sharing the name will naturally and eventually leads to sharing of faith. For Muslims that is tantamount to desruction of Islam itself.

        Call a spade a spade. Actually the fuss on using “Allah” is by Christian preachers as a way to convert Muslims.

        “”… no doubt the name may be the same, but the ….”. Precisely. why on earth allows another religion uses the name that the concept behinds it is totally different .

        “samalah ugama kita. Nama tuhan pun sama’. That is what Christian preachers are waiting to say.

        Balas
        • 75. mr. moderate  |  Januari 6, 2013 at 11:31 pm

          SA,

          “Call a spade a spade. Actually the fuss on using “Allah” is by Christian preachers as a way to convert Muslims.”

          As much we respect your freedom of speech, bear in mind that you are making an allegation of a serious nature. In Malaysia, we have sufficient laws under the Federal Constitution and state Islamic enactments to prohibit and sanction the propagation of other religions on Muslims. We also have Islamic authorities in every state, i.e. the Jabatan Agama Islam Negeri. Go ahead and sanction these so-called “Christian preachers” that are attempting to convert Muslims. Leave the ‘innocent’ Christians alone. Don’t deprive them of the freedom of religion, including the rights to use the word Allah. If you have any evidence of Christian preachers trying to convert Muslims, report to the relevant authorities.

          In July 2006, Harussani Zakaria claimed that about 100,000 Muslims have renounced Islam. Until today, he has yet to substantiate his claim. Islamic authorities have also failed to identify the so-called 100,000 murtads and take corrective actions. Similarly, authorities have not prosecuted propagators. All the so-called ‘threats to Islam’ or ‘attempts to confuse Muslims’ alleged to be perpetrated by Christians are merely perception without substantiation.

          You said “Precisely. why on earth allows another religion uses the name that the concept behinds it is totally different .”

          Who else has the authority to determine whether Christians should use a particular word or otherwise to denote their God if not for the Christians themselves? Can the Muslims give instructions to Christians? Don’t you think that the Christians have the right to refuse to listen?

          Balas
  • 76. Antibebal  |  Januari 6, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Majority of the Muslim cannot accept the Malaysian Church demand into naming their nameless biblical god into Allah is because the Christian have always adopt an idea of the Supreme God have an offspring (another God?). This is the obvious contradiction to the Muslim belief of the Oneness of the Creator. Didn’t the Christian love to belief that a true God should really be One God only?

    The Allah name is an Arabic word originated during Prophet Muhammad time BUT the Jahilliah (non Muslim) Arabs had many many god such as Latta, uzza etc. and not a single Arabic paganistic idol was named as Allah. In the hadith tradition even the Arab Christian missionary that came to see the Prophet for a debate do not accept Allah as their God. For that since when does these people claimed the Arabic Christian had eventually use Allah name in their Bible? What joke does these people are trying to pull? Pls google and see ..the only “Arab” priest that you will see is the Sabahan & Sarawakian.

    A true belief is supposed to be in their original form regardless of time and place. There are no other faiths in the world that really championed these very unique ethical faith of Islam. In fact what we saw today is other faiths or “religious” belief which is still lacking the most needed component to compliment their religion truth? Isn’t it funny ? Religion is not supposed to be an R& D product that need to improvised from time to time. I can tell you that even the infamous “In the name of the Father , the son and the Holy Ghost” was not even part of the New or Old Testament. Was not even part of the Holy Bible words and not a God words. Who created it and wrote its then? And now they want to use Allah name and you got the guts to tell the Muslim and Christian followers that this is the true religion?

    To be a globally acceptable faiths, a true religion is supposed to be in complete original form that must not tend to evolutionize and copycat from other faith. Seems like the Sabahan Christian belief had a “dash” of Darwinism in their belief !! Charles Darwin a renown scientist who proclaimed that human evolved from monkeys. A typical Asian will always seek an “ori” BUT why choose to belief Christian faith whose “God” is strategically being modified into Allah as your God? Do they know that Allah name is Arabic in nature? And do they realized that Christian faith is not Arabic in nature? Doesn’t you people feel funny accepting this modified version faith, any belief that in need of modification from time to time is remarkably full of errors. If this is an experiment then you people are the guinea pig. Do you love to be used as other people tools ?

    Just imagine in the past Allah name is a NO NO NO to them but now they have gone into the extremity to use the constitutional court order. But since the MALAYSIAN CHRISTIAN love Allah name so much would you care to see the words of Allah too? We call the words Al Quran, would you believe in the Al Quran too? When the Christian claimed that their Holy Bible as God’s word did you really meant it? What do you called the book now when the words God or Father or Lord had been strategically changed by a mortal hand call the scribes by the Holy Bible.

    You may want to refer to Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say that we are wise and the law of the Lords (Allah ???) is with us, BUT behold the SCRIBES had made it false to turn it into a lie.

    It is a BIG LIE alright, first of all if you change the word Lord here to become Allah any Muslim child can tell you that is not true. Sober up your mind and see the whole truth!!! Didn’t the text in JEREMIAH 8:8 REALLY TRANSLATE OF WHAT THE MALAYSIAN CHRISTIAN PRIEST ARE DOING TODAY?

    Wake up people !!! The true facts is LIARS cannot teach you the truth as simple as that.

    Balas
    • 77. jonnymalaya  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm

      Antibebal,

      >>To be a globally acceptable faiths, a true religion is supposed to be in complete original form that must not tend to evolutionize and copycat from other faith.

      This statement is ridiculous, as no religion today is the same as it was hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Even Islam has undergone a Darwinian evolution process, new interpretations, and offshoots & sects like the Shia’ Iranians, Deobandi, Wahabbi, Qaidani, Sufi, etc. In Africa, hardline Islamists are going around destroying mosques & Islamic monuments because they consider them to be ‘syirik’. Even Saudi Arabia is destroying their old Islamic cemeteries, forts, and heritage from the time of the prophet so Starbucks & Paris Hilton can open a branch in Mecca:

      http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/20/world/meast/paris-hilton-store-mecca/index.html

      Not to mention a lot of the parts in the Koran can be found in the earlier Bible & Torah.

      Balas
      • 78. rambulan  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 7:56 pm

        The interpretation and practice might be different but more important than that the book must be in the original form at all time.

        Balas
      • 79. Antibebal  |  Januari 12, 2013 at 11:10 am

        jonnymalaya,

        It is not true to say that Islam had undergo evolution like process. For your information Islam is a faith that begun since Adam. The “evolution” that you meant can rightfully be understood as like a child learning mind – human mind should or is trying to understand what it is that Allah message want us to understand and accept. In short the learning process is applicable to human and definitely not to Allah.

        The “Muslim’s sect” i.e. Shia’ Iranians, Deobandi, Wahabbi, Qaidani, Sufi is the human different way in interpretating methods of “seeking” Allah. Some are acceptable but some are simply ridiculous like the Qadianis eg. which is totally unacceptable !! It is not a simple task to identify which is correct which is not. Talking about the Islamic faith, simply put there is a lot to learn here. Whereas the Prophet had clearly remind the people or ummah before his demise (wafat) that all Muslim man and women should return to refer the Hadith and Al Quran should there arises any indifference of arguments between them.

        And … when you said “Not to mention a lot of the parts in the Koran can be found in the earlier Bible & Torah…”. If you care to refer to the Islamic Rukun Iman you will find that it is mandatory for every Muslim man and women to acknowledge and accept the Books (Kitab) that was being given to the earlier prophets before Muhammad SAW.

        And you should do yourselves a favor (if you like) to do research that Muhammad himself do not know how to read and write. How in the world does he have any idea of what was the contents in the Bible and Torah? Or do you think Muhammad could have a “learnt Jews” accomplice to colaborate with him? Very very funny … don’t you think so? The truth is he does have someone to assist him on that ! That very “knowledgable being” is Allah the Creator himself !! That is why Al Quran is always regard as Kalamullah or the words of Allah. When Allah creates everything, how could the Creator do not know what, who and when all the happening past, current or future ?

        To date, what the Prophet had said is very true when currently the “pious” ulamak in PAS had clearly ignored the true Islamic teaching when they deliberatrely “exchange” their prime destiny from ukhrawi (hereafter) to worldly (duniawi) interest !!! One can easily see that not all members in PAS can agreed with Nik Aziz and hadi Awang blessing for the Catholic church to use Allah name in their modified version of the Malay (language) Christian Bible.

        I guess their PAS leaders dream and temptation to become Malaysian Prime Minister is too much for them to realize what does it mean to allow Allah name to be down graded to human and animal standard by The Catholic church. I have nothing much to say bout that but “may Allah have mercy on them …”

        Balas
  • 80. LOL  |  Januari 6, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    This following is an e-mail sent by a Malaysian student who studied in Indonesia quite sometime ago and I have kept it as a reminder to myself and all of my Muslim friends about the important and exclusivity of the use of Allah only to the Muslims.

    “Hati-hati ketika melancong A Church in Java (Jawa) I

    Just nak kongsi pengalaman sepanjang lebih 5 tahun tinggal dan belajar diIndonesia. Saya tidak berniat memburukkan Indonesia They have my respect, dan saya tahu orang2 Indonesia tidak seburuk yang disangkakan di sini..
    (orang Indonesia baik dan ramah, pintar dan rajin.. that’s a fact!)

    Pengalaman ini saya kongsi supaya orang ramai boleh tahu dan membayangkan implikasinya jika penggunaan nama Allah oleh non-muslim dibiarkan. Di satu sisi memang agak lucu, tapi di sisi lain terdapat keseriusan di dalamnya

    Aku ingat satu hari aku bukak TV perdana dia pastu tengok satu program..

    Aku ingat ceramah agama lah.. dia punya penceramah punya semangat berkobar2.. “Kita semua sudah berdosa! Allah Maha Kuasa! Allah Maha Penyayang! Kembalilah kita semua ke jalan Allah! (aku dalam hati, Alhamdulillah.. bagus!) pastu tak pasal2 dia sambung “Kembalilah ke Yesus Kristus dan Bunda Maryam!” aku langsung tergolek… astaghfirullah! ceramah Kristian rupanya..

    Satu lagi kenangan aku kat Indonesia, kalo baca surat khabar sana nanti ada slot obituaries: “Telah Kembali ke Rahmat Allah, Sdr. XXX pada XXX Semoga ruh beliau dicucuri rahmat Allah” Bila tengok balik nama yang mati Eduardus, Kristus, Paulus, etc. (nama org Kristian) pastu ada salib diikuti tulisan kecik “ash to ash, dust to dust, fade to black”… tergolek lagi aku.. wakakaka..

    Satu lagi cerita aku kat Indonesia, satu hari aku ‘bermusafir’ lah ke daerah Jawa Barat naik motor, pastu nak berhentilah solat.. aku toleh ke kiri kanan jalan cari masjid.. Pastu aku nampak ada signboard kalimah Allah (dlm arab!) pastu ada banner “Ayuh kerjakan kewajipan kita kepada Allah dan agamanya!” aku pun pergilah dekat.. tup2 aik, awat lain macam tempat ni, siap ada patung jesus kena salib??!! Tergolek lagi aku.. lah.. gereja Kristian rupenye..

    Satu lagi kat sana nak beli buku-buku agama kena hati-hati.. Aku dulu pernah ‘usha’ buku kat kedai buku.. Ada satu buku aku tak ingat persis tapi tajuk buku dia lebih kurang camni: “Memantapkan Iman Anda Kepada Allah” bila bukak2 browsing per helai aku start confuse, amacam lain macam aje ayat2 dan hadis dia.. Aku tengok balik lah..ayat2 kutipan dari Bible.. tergolek aku lagi.. lah, buku dakwah Kristian rupanya..

    risau gak klu jadi camni kat M’sia di tengah tengah bandar bandung juga terdapat sebuah geraja yg dinamakan “rumah allah”…mcm mcm lagi isu akan timbul lepas ni selagi malaysia mengamalkan demokrasi-sekular ”

    In the above situation, the adult will be able to differentiate between the two religion but for the young one it will create confusion to them, hence easily being manipulated.

    Balas

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