Badan-badan gereja sekata mahu guna kalimah Allah

Januari 9, 2013 at 10:10 pm 62 comments

Kenyataan akhbar hari ini oleh the Council of Churches of Malaysia (CCM) dan Christian Federation of Malaysia (CFM) serta inisiatif oleh National Evangelical Christian Fellowship (NECF).

We'll continue to use Allah declares churches council - Malaysiakini 2013-01-09 20-47-41
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CFM CJMY - Citizen Journalist Malaysia 2013-01-09 20-09-31
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NgMoonHing

Kristian akan berpuasa

Pesanan NECF:

“Hence during this critical time in the history of our nation, we ask of you to set aside time from your busy church schedules to rally together as a people of God to a nationwide 3-Day fast and prayer [...]

“This is also for us to come together to prepare for the upcoming General Elections to ask the Lord for a special blessing.”

Yang bukan Kristian = “their wicked ways”

ACallToPrayer

Nampaknya kemelut ini diapi-apikan oleh jenis “anak, bangsa, malaysia”.

Sekiranya diserahkan kepada Muslim dan Kristian pribumi Sabah dan Sarawak, mungkin penyelesaian yang baik boleh dicapai. Akan tetapi evangelis DAP mesti mahu campurtangan untuk mendapat untung politik.

Bayangkan kegiatan-kegiatan menghasut mereka di media sosial dan di gereja-gereja Jerusubang.

Twitter hannahyeoh Do not confuse

Amaran KDN kepada Herald

1998: Surat pertama KDN menuntut agar akhbar Herald tidak menggunakan kalimah Allah.

2002: Surat kedua KDN meminta Herald tunjuk sebab (show-cause letter)

2006:

Surat ketiga KDN menegur

Surat keempat KDN memberi amaran

Surat kelima KDN memberi satu lagi amaran

2007: Surat keenam KDN meminta Herald tunjuk sebab / Herald membawa kes ke mahkamah

2009: Herald menang kes di Mahkamah Tinggi. Kerajaan mengemukakan rayuan.

Pengarang Herald Father Lawrence Andrew berkata gereja berniat untuk “to minimize the wrong belief that the spread of Christianity in the local languages of Malaysia is a recent phenomenon of the twentieth century. ‘This is to say that Christianity has been here for a long time: 400 years’.”

MCA bagaimana?

Parti yang menyambut Krismas selama sebulan itu enggan membuat apa-apa pendirian atas isu.

Dengan tiadanya ketetapan ditunjukkan oleh kepimpinan parti Cina BN itu, maka jangan hairan jika Jerusubang Star pula yang tampil ke depan sebagai opinion leader.

Main - Malaysia - MCA man sits on fence over ‘Allah’ row @ Wed Jan 09 2013 2013-01-09 21-53-38

Hannah Yeoh to be in live tweet session 2012-04-25 15-31-08

Berkaitan:

Kristianisasi: Adakah MCA musuh dalam selimut?

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Entry filed under: Evangelis. Tags: .

Kes Dr Novandri dan blogger-blogger pro-Umno Zairil buat laporan polis (mutakhir)

62 Komen Add your own

  • 1. adieu1999  |  Januari 9, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    Some folks really love to play wif fire… guess power is everything to them

    Balas
    • 2. Forrestcat  |  Januari 9, 2013 at 11:46 pm

      Some men just want to watch the world burn.

      We should send these people to act as criminals in the Dark Knight sequels.

      Balas
    • 3. UMNO Apa hal? senyap je..  |  Januari 12, 2013 at 5:17 pm

      Hah apa kata Tok Najib Tok Hishamudin? Ni semua sebab Melayu bahlol lalai jaga negara. Hakim Cina tongsang terpengaruh dengan injil penjajah dibiar jadi Hakim. Anak Melayu yang menentang penghinaan Cina dibiarkan penjara oleh Hakim Hindu 5 tahun. Anak Cina baling kepala babi lepas.

      Tangan namawi Menteri UMNO cium. Apa korang nak cakap? blah,,blah ,,blah kalau di mesyuarat agung lepas tu balek tender, tender, import pekerja asing, amah, satu kepala berapa ribu, potong balak..blah..blah..blah..

      Jamil Khir buat apa? Intai pemuda pemudi, cari jalan rotan orang Melayu ya..bagus..bagus.. Orang Cina semua masuk Kristian.. apa hal? Orang asli masuk kristian apa hal? apa hal ….apa hal

      Apa lah korang…makan gaji buta..senyum ketawa..senyum ketawa..senyum ketawa…

      Apa hal..? UMNO gagal pertahan asas Islam sehingga Sultan Selangor perlu turun padang. Apa hal UMNO senyap je..

      Balas
      • 4. Bujal  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 12:50 pm

        Itu sebab kita perlu ada alternative, ctnya PAS, malangnya si alternative ni pulak , sekejap kiri sekejap kanan, nak harap PKR, terlebih sudu dari kuah, akhirnya semua UMNO salah, longgokkan semua kepada UMNO, yang lain hanya bercakap, berblog, berceramah,berdemonstrasi, isu tak selesaipun.

        Balas
  • 5. rakyat  |  Januari 9, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Helen,

    Ini tafsiran saya:-

    1. Sultan Selangor adalah Ketua Islam negeri melalui peruntukan Perlembagaan Negeri. Kuasa Sultan untuk mentadbir Islam ini datang daripada Perlembagaan Persekutuan yang mengatakan bahawa hal-ehwal Islam milik kuasa negeri.

    2. Sultan mengeluarkan arahan melarang orang bukan Islam menggunakan kalimah Allah. Arahan ini terbit daripada kedudukan Sultan sebagai Ketua Islam negeri. Sebarang arahan berkaitan agama Islam yang dikeluarkan oleh Sultan adalah berkuatkuasa kepada orang Islam di Selangor sahaja. Orang bukan Islam adalah tidak terikat dengan arahan Sultan yang dikeluarkan atas kedudukannya selaku Ketua Islam negeri.

    3. Sesetengah orang mungkin bertanya, Kalau Sultan Selangor mengeluarkan arahan melarang orang bukan Islam menggunakan kalimah Allah bukan atas kapasitinya sebagai Ketua Islam negeri tetapi selaku Sultan, adakah arahan itu berkuatkuasa terhadap orang bukan Islam?

    4. Jawapannya tidak kerana Sultan Selangor tiada kuasa yang membolehkannya mengekang hak beragama penganut bukan Islam. Hak beragama adalah dijamin oleh Perlembagan Persekutuan yang merupakan undang-undang tertinggi negara.

    5. Melarang orang bukan Islam menggunakan kalimah Allah hanya sah di sisi undang-undang sekiranya ia diperuntukkan dalam undang-undang sivil seperti Perlembagaan Persekutuan atau Kanun Keseksaan. Larangan tersebut adalah tidak sah sekiranya dikeluarkan oleh pihak-pihak seperti Sultan, JAIS, MAIS dan mufti negeri. Ini kerana orang bukan Islam adalah tidak tertakluk di bawah undang-undang Islam.

    6. Perlembagaan Persekutuan mengatakan bahawa Islam adalah agama rasmi persekutuan dan juga menjamin agama lain boleh diamalkan dengan bebas. Rujuk Perkara 3 dan 11. Walaubagaimanapun, sekatan boleh dikenakan untuk melarang agama lain daripada mengembangkan agamanya kepada orang Islam.

    7. Oleh itu, melarang orang Kristian menggunakan kalimah Allah yang menyalahgunakannya untuk tujuan memurtadkan orang Islam adalah sah. Sebenarnya, undang-undang sebegini sudahpun wujud di dalam enakmen negeri yang berkaitan. Mengapa tidak digunakan dengan sebaik mungkin?

    8. Tetapi, melarang orang Kristian secara keseluruhannya daripada menggunakan kalimah Allah adalah bertentangan dengan Perlembagaan.

    Mohon dibetulkan kesilapan sekiranya ada.

    Balas
    • 6. Aku Hensem  |  Januari 9, 2013 at 11:59 pm

      Sultan BERHAK menggunakan kuasa melarang bukan Islam menggunakan kalimah Allah dalam Bible sekiranya tindakan tersebut dilihat mendatangkan kekeliruan kepada umat Islam, mampu memurtadkan orang Islam mahupun mencabar kedudukan agama Islam sebagai agama rasmi Malaysia.

      Balas
      • 7. rakyat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:13 am

        Aku Hensem,

        Macam mana pula dengan orang Kristian yang menggunakan kalimah Allah tetapi tidak mendatangkan kekeliruan di mana penggunaan tersebut hanya terhad kepada penganut Kristian? Adakah Sultan Selangor mempunyai kuasa untuk campur tangan selaku Ketua Islam Negeri ataupun selaku Sultan?

        Balas
        • 8. Kristian tu penjajah  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 6:40 pm

          Ko ni melayu bodoh. Sesiapa boleh kata Allah. Siapa nak larang. Kat rumah ke kat gereja ke siapa tahu siapa peduli? Tapi kalau buat buku, buat kitab buat injil kata Allah itu Kristian, itu dah kira menghasut. Menghina, Campur tangan dalam hal islam di selangor. Ada faham? Lagi-lagi kalau kata, dgr khabar, DAP nak cetak 100,000 injil ajar ajaran Kristian baru dengan Allah sebagai Tuhan tak ke haru? Tak ke ni ajaran sesat islam yang baru?

          MCA memang betul diam sebab Kristian bukan ugama orang Cina. Mereka buddhist atau apa2 lah. Tapi kalau mereka juga nak kata buddha itu Allah tentu itu satu ugama baru.

          Apa kaitan MCA dengan Kristianity? Katolik Kristian bukan ugama orang Cina. Ia ugama paderi Eropah. Paderi Yahudi yang disalib oleh Roman Pontius Pilate. Ini menunjukan DAP membuat ugama baru kononnya Kristian tapi Allah tuhan nya.

          Tak de dia paderi Pope nak kata Allah tuhan dia. Sebab itu ugama orang arab.

          MCA dah lama dengan Sultan-Sultan Melayu. Mereka tak pernah dahulu mempelopori ugama penjajah Katolik Kristian.

          Ini ko mesti ingat. Kristian itulah yang menjajah Sultan-Sultan Melayu dulu!

          Balas
        • 9. rakyat  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 8:27 pm

          Kristian tu penjajah,

          “Sesiapa boleh kata Allah. Siapa nak larang. Kat rumah ke kat gereja ke siapa tahu siapa peduli? Tapi kalau buat buku, buat kitab buat injil kata Allah itu Kristian, itu dah kira menghasut. Menghina, Campur tangan dalam hal islam di selangor.”

          Saya nampak ada dua kumpulan pengguna kalimah Allah di sini. Pertama, orang yang menggunakan kalimah Allah tetapi tidak mendatangkan kemudaratan kepada agama Islam seperti yang disebut kamu “Sesiapa boleh kata Allah. Siapa nak larang. Kat rumah ke kat gereja ke siapa tahu siapa peduli?”

          Kedua, orang yang mendatang kemudaratan kepada agama Islam “Tapi kalau buat buku, buat kitab buat injil kata Allah itu Kristian, itu dah kira menghasut. Menghina, Campur tangan dalam hal islam di selangor.”

          Kumpulan pertama mempunyai kebebasan beragama yang tidak harus diganggu oleh mana-mana pihak kerana mereka tidak mengganggu Islam. Mereka adalah umat Kristian yang tidak cuba memurtadkan orang Islam dan menggunakan kalimah Allah untuk tujuan keagamaan sendiri.

          Kumpulan kedua pula boleh dihukum di bawah undang-undang yang melarang penyebaran agama bukan Islam. Contoh, Enakmen Jenayah Syariah Selangor 1995 dan Enakmen Ugama Bukan Islam (Kawalan Pengembangan di Kalangan Orang Islam) 1988. Mereka mungkin adalah ahli politik atau paderi gereja yang mempunyai agenda jahat dan menyeleweng kalimah Allah.

          Isu di sini ialah kerajaan hendak melarang kumpulan pertama daripada menggunakan kalimah Allah kerana tindakan segelintir kumpulan kedua. Persoalan di sini:-

          1. Mengapa tiada tindakan di ambil terhadap kumpulan kedua? Apa yang JAIS, MAIS, pendakwa Syariah dan mahkamah Syariah di Selangor sedang buat?

          2. Adakah adil untuk menidakkan hak kumpulan pertama yang tidak bersalah kerana salahlaku segelintir kumpulan kedua?

          3. Di manakah peruntukan undang-undang yang membolehkan kerajaan untuk mengenakan sekatan menyeluruh terhadap orang Kristian? Undang-undang sedia ada hanya menyekat agama bukan Islam daripada disebarkan kepada orang Islam.

          Balas
          • 10. Aku Hensem  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 10:52 pm

            just want to tell you one thing
            bila 13 Mei berulang kembali…
            tidak ada satu undang-undang yang mampu menghalang tragedi itu berulang
            u can keep on writing about law but remember…
            Laws are made to be broken
            Do not test the wrath of the Malays
            I know because I was there during the 13 May…

            Balas
    • 11. Antihipokrit  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:26 am

      Helen,

      Majlis Raja-Raja Melayu di atas Perlembagaan Persekutuan. Jangan nak riak sgt dgn artikel 11. Sekali ATM rampas kuasa melopong lu orang parlimen kena gntung. Jgn lupa ATM di bawah Raja-Raja Melayu. Malaysia dulu rakyatnya hidup aman damai. Datang musibat Evengelis habis huru hara.

      Balas
      • 12. rakyat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:31 am

        Antihipokrit,

        Sila tunjukkan di mana dalam perlembagaan yang menyatakan bahawa MRR Melayu itu adalah lebih tinggi daripada perlembagaan. Ingat bahawa Malaysia mengamalkan sistem raja berperlembagaan di mana kuasa-kuasa Raja/Sultan/Agong itu adalah ditetap dan dihadkan oleh Perlembagaan Persekutuaan dan Negeri. Masih ingat Rukun Negara? Konsep Keluhuran Perlembagaan.

        Menggunakan kaedah menakutkan orang dengan rampasan kuasa oleh ATM dan penggantungan Parlimen bukan penyelesaian. Malaysia akan menuju ke kancah kegawatan sekiranya rampasan dan darurat berlaku. Negara mempunyai sistem undang-undang dan kehakiman untuk menyelesaikan isu kalimah Allah. Sekarang, kita patut tunggu keputusan kes rayuan kalimah Allah. Sehingga keputusan rayuan diketahui, status quo haruslah dikekalkan iaitu penggunaan kalimah Allah oleh bukan Muslim haruslah dibenarkan.

        Forum terbaik untuk menyelesaikan pertikaian ini bukan di Mahkamah Syariah kerana ia tiada kuasa terhadap bukan Muslim. Juga bukan Enakmen Islam negeri kerana enakmen ini tiada kuasa terhadap bukan Muslim. Juga bukan Sultan kerana tuanku tiada kuasa untuk mengehad kebebasan beragama orang bukan Islam. Juga bukan JAIS, MAIS, mufti negeri dsb kerana mereka tiada kuasa terhadap bukan Muslim.

        Forum terbaik adalah melalui Parlimen dan sistem kehakiman yang mempunyai kuasa terhadap semua rakyat tanpa mengira agama. Parlimen patut meluluskan undang-undang baru atau meminda perlembagaan untuk melarang orang bukan Islam menggunakan kalimah Allah. Kehakiman akan membuat keputusan kes berasaskan undang-undang yang dibuat Parlimen.

        Balas
    • 13. Antihipokrit  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:28 am

      Nak MAGERAN sekali lagi ke puak Kristian ni?

      Balas
  • 14. Forrestcat  |  Januari 9, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    To quote Gopal Rak Kumar from Takemon

    This clause in the Constitution expressly acknowledges that Islam is the religion of the Federation. Not subject to or existing alongside any others.  The Constitution in this clause is unequivocal in respect of the paramouncy of Islam over other religions in Malaysia.

    As to the second part of the clause (1) of Article 3 of the Constitution, the expression “in peace and harmony” , it is clear from the conditions that exist as a result of the action of the Catholic Herald’s action that ‘peace and harmony‘ is threatened and cannot be maintained (by who ever and for whatever reasons. The Constitution is silent on the point).

    The absence of or threat to ’peace and harmony’ as referred to in clause (1) of Article 3 again without equivocation, gives rise to a discretion in the hands of responsible government to exercise its powers in maintaining that ‘peace and harmony’.

    In preventing a debate of this nature from deteriorating into a conflict situation that threatens national security, political stability and civil strife, government is well within its rights and is empowered to act, even if that means curtailing the rights of some or all sectors of the community.

    Clause (4) of Article 11 provides; 

    State law and in respect of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Lubuan, Federal law may control or restrict the propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam. 

    Clearly the judge was selectively oblivious to or had no understanding of the powers provided to the various states and territories in clause (4) of Article 11 of the Federal Constitution with respect to “the control or restriction of the propagation of any religious doctrine or belief”.  The issue of propagation of the Catholic faith amongst Muslims,which the Catholic Herald as a medium of the Catholic Church is peceived by Muslims to be carrying out is further reinfroced in the minds of the Muslims with the use of the word Allah.

    The government sees the widespread availability of the Herald (not a restricted publication) as having a distribution capability of reaching ‘persons professing the religion of Islam’ referred to in clause (4) of Article 11 of the Constitution.

    That power provided to the government at State, Territory and Federal level was for some reason overlooked by the judge in an extraordinary decision  without providing any further explanations for the decision.

    Further, clause (4) of Article 11 does not impose conditions upon the government as to when it should or may use or apply that power at all. It is discretionary. Arguably a discretionary power in government which lies in the words “may control”.

    If in its wisdom (something the Bee Lian Lau J clearly misunderstands) the Federal or other governments within Malaysia decides that a particular act or omission by a religious group (in this case the use of the word Allah by the Catholic Church) amounts to propagating its faith amongst Muslims, then the government has a duty to act under the Constitution to prevent its use and the greater mischief that would result from its use. Its duty to act in this regard need not necesaarily be confined to its duty to Muslims but also to Malays because they constitute a not insignificant majority in a democracy.

    The Catholic Herald is not restricted in its distribution and is difficult to restrict in its reach throughout Malaysia.

    Balas
    • 15. rakyat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:57 am

      Forrestcat,

      Very good write-up indeed.

      But may I comment?

      Lau Bee Lan J in her decision said that “use of the “Allah” by Christians is protected by the constitution as long as it is not used to proselytize Muslims.” Meaning that any Christians using the word Allah to confuse, proselytize and convert Muslims are not protected by Constitution and these actions are punishable under the relevant state enactments.

      This is a fair judgment in the sense that ‘innocent’ Christians that use the word Allah within the confinement of the Christian community is merely exercising freedom of religion. Why want to impose a blanket ban on the entire Christian community just because of the misdeeds of selected few? Go and sanction those ‘irresponsible’ Christians that misused the word Allah to confuse, proselytize and convert Muslims. Leave the rest of the Christians untouched.

      Balas
      • 16. Helen Ang  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 10:27 am

        Forrrestcat said he was quoting Gopal Raj Kumar whose commentary on Justice Lau can be read in GRK’s blog, here

        On the question of “blanket ban” and whether only the relevant segment of missionaries can be instead sanctioned while leaving the rest of the Christians untouched, it’s beginning to look impossible because the differentiation is not visible.

        It sounds like another form of the question previously directed at me, i.e. why are all the Christians (incl. native Sabahan and Sarawakian Christians who genuinely use BM and have been truly calling God ‘Allah’) being punished collectively for the evangelista actions.

        Perhaps this analogy will serve: With an estimated 90 percent of the Chinese electorate seen as pro-DAP, the Umno Malay hardliners do not distinguish any diversity of political opinion among the Chinese anymore.

        It doesn’t seem that many Christians are willing to speak up to rebut/refute some aspects of the public campaign to use ‘Allah’, the “facts” which are misleading and a misrepresentation.

        It’s the distasteful way the Christian polity have been carrying themselves while trying to argue which does not engender trust in the other side.

        Conflict resolution requires goodwill.

        The Christian camp is displaying bad faith with their endless putar-belit when presented with clear-cut and commonsensical arguments on why Allah is the God of Islam, period.

        Balas
        • 17. rakyat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:07 pm

          Helen,

          The dispute between the publisher of the Herald and the government is currently pending the decision of the Court of Appeal, if not mistaken. As such, we should be confident with the wisdom of the judiciary and let the court decide.

          The fact that the publisher has decided to refer the matter to Court for adjudication means that prior discussions or resolutions to settle the conflict amicably have failed. Both parties, i.e. the publisher and government (including the Islamic authorities) are taking a non-tolerant approach that eventually lead to the current issue being litigated at court.

          Anyhow, most people interpret the matter from their own religions’ point of views. That is the reason we always hear religion based justifications. Muslims would justify based on their religion and Christians would do the same too. We hear arguments like ‘mengelirukan akidah’, ‘sama Tuhan, maka sama agama’ etc. This method will not solve the issue as the opposing camps are two distinct religions, i.e. Christians vs Islam.

          People also argue from the political point of view depending on their political affiliations. So, we hear theories like ‘PAS subservient to DAP’, ‘DAP try to provoke Islam’, ‘Negara Kristian’ etc. Again, this method will not solve the issue as well as the opposing camps are two distinct groups, i.e. BN/UMNO vs PR.

          But few people would examine the matter from the legality point of view, i.e. by referring to the relevant laws in the constitution, state enactments etc. Bear in mind that the dispute of kalimah Allah is now being resolved by the courts of law, ie. the High Court. I have explained at length above on the legality perspective. Refer to my comments:-
          (rakyat | Januari 9, 2013 at 11:30 pm)

          Hence, I separate the Christians into 2 groups:-

          1. Minority Christians that misused the word Allah in order to confuse, proselytize and convert Muslims. The position on this group is very clear. We already have laws to deal with them. Authorities should go all out to sanction them. Charge them and put them in jail. It is perfectly legal for the government to do so.

          2. Majority ‘Bona fide’ Christians that use the word purely for their own purposes and confined to followers of Christianity. The position on this group is also very clear. Firstly, the law should not punish or deprive the majority ‘innocent’ people just because of the misdeed of selected few. Second, they have the freedom of religion to use the word Allah as long as they are not confusing, proselytizing and converting Muslims.

          Let us not be ‘selfish’ by merely looking from our religions’ point of view or our political parties’ point of view. Try to look at the law and balance the conflicting interests of both opposing camps.

          Balas
          • 18. Helen Ang  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:33 pm

            re: “Bear in mind that the dispute of kalimah Allah is now being resolved by the courts of law, ie. the High Court.”

            Lau Bee Lan is a High Court judge and she had delivered her judgement on the case. So wouldn’t it now be put before the Court of Appeal since the govt. is appealing to overturn her decision?

            If the appeal is pending, the issue was also quiet until Lim Guan Eng reignited the spark in his recent Christmas (eve) message. If anyone is selfish looking at it from their political party’s POV, it is the Dapsters.

            Does it look to you like the Christians would accept the next court decision if the judgment were to go against them?

            When the judgment went against the Muslims in the first round, there were the firebombings of the churches.

            As to your opinion that the law enforcement officers can separate the bona fide Christian ‘Allah’ users (permitted to use) from the missionaries out to convert Malays (not permitted to use), I don’t reckon that the officers on the ground will be able to do that.

            Or in other words, the situation on the ground is not such that the two groups – in practical terms – can be distinguished from each other by the legal authorities (say the Jais, Mais officers) doing the rounds checking on dakwah activities.

            By the majority of the Christians condoning the evangelista behaviour, I think we’re en route to the ‘collective punishment’ option. The temporary respite brokered by Idris Jala was mocked and rocked by the opposition from the get-go.

            It was the same type of response that Bersih 2.0 gave the EC when the commission actually tried to address their 8 demands with some sincerity.

            Balas
          • 19. rakyat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 2:43 pm

            Helen,

            1. I stand corrected. The matter is now pending adjudication by the Court of Appeal due to the appeal filed by the government. Lau Bee Lan J already disposed the matter at High Court level.

            2. Since the appeal is pending, then the status quo has to be preserved until the CA decides otherwise. I.e. the Christians can use the word Allah until the decision of the HC is overturned by CA.

            3. LGE is a politician, hence his statements is always political. he can say a lot of things. Ultimately it is the court that will decide.

            4. If the Christians are not satisfied with the decision of the CA, they can appeal to the Federal Court. Every litigation must come to an end and the decision of the FC is final. All parties must submit to the decision eventually.

            5. If the law enforcers are not able to separate between bona fide and mala fide Christians that use the word Allah, this is the weakness of the enforcement system in the country. We always have good laws in the statute books but poor enforcement. We have laws that prohibit propagation on Muslims but the enforcement agencies, muftis, courts, prosecutors etc seems unable to invoke the law to sanction propagators. Perak Mufti claimed that as much as 100,000 Muslims have renounced Islam back in 2006. Is there any action taken on those 100,000 murtads and propagators that caused these people to renounce Islam?

            6. What do you mean by “By the majority of the Christians condoning the evangelista behaviour, I think we’re en route to the ‘collective punishment’ option.” How do you gauge that the majority of Christians condone the behaviour of evangelista?
            _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

            I merely gauge but we can wait and observe the outcome (people reactions) which is not necessarily the court decision alone but events surrounding the last leg of the journey to the final arbiter, the FC as you say. — Helen

            Balas
          • 20. jonnymalaya  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 7:54 pm

            rakyat,

            The problem here, especially on this blog, are readers that are adamant on dictating minority groups how to practice their faith & culture. Even when their initial reasons have been disproved, they would come up with more excuses, despite having less ground.

            At first, we had them arguing the majority of Christians in Malaysia are Chinese & don’t speak Malay, blatantly ignoring the fact that Bumiputeras make over 60% of the Christian population chiefly in Sabah & Sarawak. Also disproved is the excuse the ‘Allah’ usage by Christians is only a recent phenomenon… it has actually been used long before 1963 & Merdeka.

            Faced with these facts, they go on to the argument “it is against our religion that teaches… etc..”, forgetting that it is two distinct religions we’re discussing about here… as you’ve mentioned. And finally, the “we are the majority, do as we say or we threaten bloodshed”, which basically removes the mask & exposes what their underlying agenda really is… bullying minorities, and disregarding the guarantee of freedom of religion by our Constitution.

            Balas
            • 21. Helen Ang  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 8:09 pm

              Oii, “before 1963 & Merdeka” is not “400 years” as being claimed by the evangelistas.

              Read Ellese’s comment @ http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/wajib-baca-lagi-penipuan-kristian-atas-isu-kalimah-allah/#comment-20322.

              And secondly you’re misrepresenting the majority outrage as something murderous and unreasonable. I’ve read so many attempts by Islamic scholars – the latest Syed Naquib al-Attas (google him yourself) – to explain reasonably but all their dissertations are like mencurah air ke atas daun keladi.

              It is the Christian claims in this dispute that are berbelit-belit.

              Balas
          • 22. jonnymalaya  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 10:38 pm

            >> Oii, “before 1963 & Merdeka” is not “400 years” as being claimed by the evangelistas.

            The term ‘Allah’ has been in use for hundreds of years in the Nusantera. The elephant in the room is that it has also been used by the Sabah Sarawakians even before independence and the formation of Malaysia without conflict, and only in recent history have some people chosen to create an issue.

            I’ve read Syed Naquib al-Attas speech from Zul Kulim’s blog… and he makes the claim that ‘Allah’ & Bahasa is only recently being used by Christians, unaware of how it is in East Malaysia.

            That’s the way they put it. So my answers to them, “Why you have to change praying into Bahasa Malaysia. You have been praying in English all the time. Why suddenly change into Bahasa Malaysia?”

            Helen, some of your commenters here have been babbling about going on some sort of pogrom to slay Christians, Chinese, Sikhs, etc. But any reproach from you? Perhaps you intentionally blind yourself to these comments?

            But rest assured if some people make a silly Twitter entry about Rosmah, they will be featured in almost every entry of your blog as long as there’s stars & moon in the sky…

            Balas
            • 23. Helen Ang  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 11:04 pm

              (1) Re: “it has also been used by the Sabah Sarawakians even before independence and the formation of Malaysia without conflict, and only in recent history have some people chosen to create an issue.”

              The issue has been dormant since 2010. In very recent history, i.e. 24 Dec 2012, “some people” like the Chief Minister of Penang chose to light a match.

              Before Independence Sarawak was ruled by the White Rajah Brooke(s) and North Borneo (Sabah) was British territory. They were not a part of a Federation – as they are now – that is a hybrid between Islamic state and not-secular-state.

              (2) Re: “Helen, some of your commenters here have been babbling about going on some sort of pogrom to slay Christians, Chinese, Sikhs, etc. But any reproach from you? Perhaps you intentionally blind yourself to these comments?”

              You reply them lah.

              (3) Re: “But rest assured if some people make a silly Twitter entry about Rosmah, they will be featured in almost every entry of your blog as long as there’s stars & moon in the sky…”

              I have to make up in frequency what I lack in quantity. You see, the Star reporter who silly twits has a potential audience of a million and his Twitter chatterer friend has 56,000 followers.

              Since each blog entry of mine only reaches a few thousand, therefore I have to reblog multiple times to match up against their mass machinery lah. Can or not?

              Balas
      • 24. marhaeman  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 9:37 pm

        “Allah” is mentioned 2304 times in the Quran. This show the importance of kalimah “Allah” in the teaching of Islam. And more importantly all of Them relates to one single Entity.

        Balas
        • 25. rakyat  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 10:28 pm

          marhaeman,

          No point justifying from the theological point of view. If you ask a Muslim, he will say that Allah is exclusive to Islam and justify it with Islamic theological reasons which the Christians will not accept simply because they are not the followers of Islam. Only a Muslim will believe Islamic based reasoning. The same situation happens if you ask a Christian. Theological justifications from two different religions will never able to strike a balance between the two.

          For example, assuming you are a Muslim and I am not. I can consume pork and alcohol. No matter how haram you said about these consumables, I will treat your reasoning as ‘bullshit’. Similarly, no matter how I persuade you on the good taste of these consumables you will dismiss my justification as ‘bullshit’. Your mind and my mind will never meet simply because we are from two different faiths.

          Hence, forget about all these religion based point of view. Let us look at the relevant laws of the country to decide whether or not the Christians should be allowed to use the word Allah. Why look at the laws? Irrespective of religion, as long as we are citizens of Malaysia we are bound by the law. Moreover, the matter now is pending disposal by the Court of Appeal which will look at the laws relating to freedom of religion.

          So, the question is this:

          Can a faith be allowed to dictate or interfere in the manner of how another faith practises its religion?

          Balas
          • 26. Helen Ang  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 10:47 pm

            re: “Can a faith be allowed to dictate or interfere in the manner of how another faith practises its religion?”

            Isn’t the Non-Islamic Religions (Control Of Propagation Amongst Muslims) Enactment 1988 a piece of civil legislation?

            Then there is 298A of the Penal Code “Causing etc disharmony, disunity or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will or prejudicing etc the maintenance of harmony or unity, on grounds of religion”. The Allah dispute seems to fit the description.

            Or say there is a “faith” (like doomsday or deviant cult) … would you still advocate no interference? Claiming the cloak of religion shouldn’t be a carte blanche.

            In fact, I thought that some Christians were “dictating” to everyone else to acknowledge that their Subang Jaya window smudge is the holy virgin.

            Balas
          • 27. rakyat  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 11:08 pm

            Helen,

            You rightly pointed out the relevant pieces of legislation, i.e. the state Enactment 1988 of Selangor and the Penal Code. The former is applicable in Selangor and the latter in entire Malaysia. Let us not dispute whether the relevant provisions in the Enactment 1988 and S. 298A Penal Code are unconstitutional or otherwise. These two pieces of law provide for criminal sanctions against individuals. There is no mention of ‘collective punishment’, i.e. innocent majority can be punished or sanctioned due to the misdeed of minority.

            Meaning that if politician XYZ or priest ABC committed any offenses under the said Enactment or Penal Code, the authorities should detain, investigate, prosecute and punish him accordingly. Any politician or priest that misused the word Allah to confuse, convert, weaken and proselytize Muslims is punishable under the said laws.

            You said “The Allah dispute seems to fit the description.” How would it fit under the Enactment 1988 or the Penal Code? Even if it fits, the sanction is criminal in nature like imprisonment or fine or both on the accused person. Where is the provision that allows the government to impose blanket ban on Christians from using the word Allah?

            Balas
            • 28. Helen Ang  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 11:33 pm

              The other states have similar anti-propagation laws. Kelantan’s is 1981, Malacca (1988), Negri Sembilan (1991), etc.

              Or otherwise it’s tucked away in the Syariah, which begs the question of grey jurisdiction like this one in Wilayah, Bhg II, Seksyen 5: “Mana-mana orang yang mengembangkan doktrin atau kepercayaan agama selain daripada doktrin atau kepercayaan agama Islam di kalangan orang yang beragama Islam adalah melakukan suatu kesalahan …”

              But I get your point about individuals being sanctioned versus a pre-emptive ban.

              Article 149 of the FedCon might apply, i.e. Legislation against subversion, action prejudicial to public order, etc

              (1) If an Act of Parliament recites that action has been taken or threatened by any substantial body of persons …

              (c) to promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or other classes of the population likely to cause violence

              (f) which is prejudicial to public order in, or the security, of the Federation or any part hereof

              Balas
  • 29. Forrestcat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:22 am

    Its really silly and irresponsible for Karpal to involve the Sikhs. while true that Sikhs may refer to Allah, but it does not refer to Allah as God, Sikhs do not worship Allah in their scripture, plus, the Sikh religion does not have a missionary intent to convert other religions and mainly hereditary nature. Hence under the constitution and even the consideration of the incumbent government, the likelihood of Sikhism proletyzing Muslims is low. But the Sikh leadership who interfered has opened the door for Karpal to capitalize this issue.

    Balas
  • 30. Antihipokrit  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:24 am

    Nampaknya Kristian ni nak main kasar.. Tak cukup ke kebebasan dgn beribu gereja kat Malaysia ni. Inilah bahana Tunku dulu bagi FREE CITIZENSHIP.

    Balas
    • 31. jonnymalaya  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm

      Antihipokrit,

      Kalau anda menelaah sejarah Malaysia, anda akan tahu majoriti penganut Kristian adalah bumiputra yang sudah lama bertapak di Sabah/Sarawak.

      Lagipun, mereka bersetuju join dengan Malaya 1963 dulu

      Balas
  • 32. Orangkampungpeninglalat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:30 am

    But why do the churches here persistently insist on using the word Allah? Enlighten us please. Here’s the scene.

    As a Muslim, when I walk into a mosque in china, India, Kenya, England America germany France, when I pray I use the word Allah. So, are you fighting for the right to use my god’s name because you use the name Allah in your prayers in Rome, the Vatican, Poland, china, India and Jerusalem too?

    And if you tell me the issue is not the same, please tell me what exactly is the issue for you because I can bet you that for most of us Muslims who are against your using the name Allah, THIS is really the issue. The kampung Muslims all geleng kepala tertanya apa kejadah depa nak pakai nama Allah, tuhan depa tak de nama ke, depa dah lupa nama tuhan depa?

    Balas
    • 33. forrrestcat  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 1:53 am

      They have Elohim, God, Deos, Tuhan, they themselves are confused or follow their shepherd down a ravine.

      Balas
    • 34. shamshul anuar  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 8:56 am

      Orangkampung,

      tak perlu pening lalat. Jawapannya sudah diceritakan dalam AlQuran.

      Bukankah allah SWT berfirman bahawa “kami (yakni orang islam) tidak menyembah apa yang kamu (bukan Islam) sembah”. Ayat dalam surah yang sama menegaskan hal umat Islam adalh hak umat Islam sepenuhnya.

      Dan bukankah AlQuran berkata orang Yahudi dan Nasrani tidak akan puas hati selagi kita tak ikut cara mereka.

      Kerana kekuatan iman, tok nenek kita berjuang berhabis-habisan menentang Portugis. Kerana iman juga menurut aruah bapa saya ada iman dan Tok lebai dipancung dizaman komunis kerana mereka masih tetap mengaku sebagai Umat nabi Muhammad walaupun komunis Bintang 3 mahu mereka tidak mengiktiraf Nabi Muhammad SAW sebagai nabi.

      Kerana iman jugalah orang melayu sanggup menentang British menolak Malayan Union dan British ketika itu adalah kuasa dunia yang mempunyai tanah jajahan paling besar dan baru pula menang Perang dunia.

      Namun kerana kekurangan iman jugalah orang melayu sanggup “menyembah” DAP dan cuba beri gambaran palsu bahawa “Allah” boleh digunakan oleh Kristian selagi tidak gugat ugama Islam.

      Mereka tahu bencana yang menimpa namun kuasa punya hal, akidah dibuang. Nasihat Sultan ditolak jauh. “Arahan” Guan eng dijunjung mulia. Nasihat dan pandangan dari orang parti sendiri yang masih ada iman ditolak. Pandangan paderi Kristian juga yang perlu dimuliakan.

      Soial akidah dikelirukan sebagai rancangan UMNO untuk kenakan PAS. walhal mereka enggan berfikir sejenak bahawa ianya isu akidah.

      “LULUS JARUM LULUSLAH KELINDAN”.

      Balas
      • 35. rakyat  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 2:45 pm

        SA,

        “Namun kerana kekurangan iman jugalah orang melayu sanggup “menyembah” DAP dan cuba beri gambaran palsu bahawa “Allah” boleh digunakan oleh Kristian selagi tidak gugat ugama Islam.”

        Itu sememangnya kedudukan undang-undang di Malaysia sekarang ini. Orang Kristian boleh menggunakan kalimah Allah untuk tujuan keagamaan Kristian selagi mereka tidak menggunakannya untuk mengelirukan, memurtadkan dan melemahkan akidah orang Islam.

        Mana-mana orang yang menyalahguna atau menyeleweng kalimah Allah untuk tujuan mengelirukan, memurtadkan dan melemahkan akidah orang Islam boleh dihukum di bawah Enakmen Negeri yang berkaitan.

        Oleh itu, JALAN PENYELESAIAN adalah bukan mengenakan sekatan ‘blanket’ terhadap keseluruhan orang Kristian tetapi adalah menangkap dan menghukum individu-individu tertentu yang menyeleweng kalimah Allah. Jangan menidakkan hak majoriti orang Kristian yang tidak bersalah.

        “Nasihat Sultan ditolak jauh. “Arahan” Guan eng dijunjung mulia.”

        Sila kenal pasti ‘jurisdiction’ terlebih dahulu. Sultan mana? Adakah Sultan Selangor? Adakah Tuanku mempunyai bidang kuasa terhadap orang di luar Selangor? Lagipun, adakah Sultan mempunyai kuasa terhadap orang bukan Islam?

        “Dan bukankah AlQuran berkata orang Yahudi dan Nasrani tidak akan puas hati selagi kita tak ikut cara mereka.”

        Surah mana dalam Quran?

        Balas
    • 36. I.D.A  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:03 am

      orang kampung tambah pening lalat sbb presiden pas pun tumpang sekaki jilat tapak kaki evangelist

      Balas
  • 37. Shaz  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 8:11 am

    Laws are there for protection. Some laws can be dumb in todays context and interpreted to side with personal gain. People with power who uphold laws are after all “human” & Democracy allows a free for all in all this talk-talk-talk and debate.

    But one thing is certain, if there is a God and his name is Allah, everyone should use it; if it’s not his name, no one should use it. If he doesnt care what we call him, why bother with all this debate.

    If he is God, should he care? How many names do each of us mortals carry after all; in our short time on earth?

    Bottom line is nobody knows->there’s zero proof on this name thing, except for historical evidence in usage. Historical Usage does not prove that this god introduced himself as so&so.

    Besides, what was the original god the ancients refered to when they used allah? Did it originate even before Christianity or Islam?

    If it did, and both Christianity and Islam refer to the One Creator God, then could it be that neither should use this name?

    But of course, if it it originated at the birth of Islam, no one else should use it.

    Balas
    • 38. kiasu  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm

      “Allah” swt adalah nama khas yang disebut “Tiada tuhan melainkan “Allah” or “La illah ha il “Allah” di dalam Al Quran dan nama “Allah” disebut hampir 2,700 kali di dalam Al Quran yang sama yang satu2nya kitab yang diperakui tidak pernah diubah isi kandungan asalnya.

      Muslims di seluruh dunia menguna satu2nya namakhas tuhan iaitu “Allah” dalam ibadah agama dan kehidupan bila merujuk dan worship kepada tuhan in Islam.

      Adakah Lim Guan Eng, Hannah dan company menyebut Allah semasa dia sembahyang dalam gereja atau sebelum meminum alkohol meminta keberkatan tuhan?

      Adakah Lim Guan Eng meminum alkohol yang merupakan a sin dalam bible juga? Jika dia engkar perintah tuhan bible dia yang melarang minum alkohol, mengapa dia tidak demand supaya semua penganut alkohol termasuk Tokong sendiri berhenti minum dan jual alkohol, brandi, beer, wine?

      Mengapa? Ya, mudah sahaja, sepertimana permainan Tokong ini dengan perkataan Allah, adalah semata2 kerana UNDI KERISTIAN dan penyebaran agama kristian di Malaysia. Tentunya kristian peminum alkohol brand beer wine akan tolak DAP jika Lim Guan Eng haramkan ini semua atas perintah tuhan.

      Balas
  • 39. Calvin Sankaran  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 8:21 am

    I wonder if LGE’s comments were calculated to forment clash between the Muslims and the Christians. Knowing that the Kalimah Allah issue is sensitive and in the past led to attacks on Churches by some misguided morons, perhaps DAP is hoping for a repeat so that it can fish in muddy waters.

    I also surprised that PAS and especially Taleban in Chief Nik Aziz has endorsed Allah to be used freely by non Muslims.This probably shows that PAS is eyeing the Christian votes in the coming GE. I suggest that since Nik Aziz is so understanding of the Christian feelings in this issue, he takes the lead in allowing Churches use Al Kitab in Kelantan.

    Balas
  • 40. Calvin Sankaran  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 8:24 am

    BTW, I am puzzled by the reference to “constitutional” rights by the Christian Talebans. Do they mean that the national constitution allows the Christians to use Allah in Al Kitab? Why are they trying to deceive people by making such claims? And why bring this issue up when it is in the courts? I am no lawyer, but shouldn’t the discussion on this issue is act of contempt of court? Had the talk initiated by the other party, I bet Karpal and Bar Council would have jumped into and loudly protested “contempt of court”.

    Balas
  • 41. azhar  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:25 am

    walau bagaimana pun tafsiran Kristian pada kalimah Allah berbeza dengan islam.

    hal ini mereka tak mampu menipu dan memperdayakan orang lain.

    apa saja nama tuhan didunia ini nampaknya ia kalimah tuhan agama kristian.

    sebenarnya kerja mereka yang sebeginilah membuatkan Islam itu diikhtiraf oleh Allah sebagai agama yang lurus ,benar ,sempurna dan diredhai.

    Balas
  • 42. Rashid  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:37 am

    If not mistaken, previous reports state the Bible are imported from Indonesia, hence the language is in Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Malaysia?

    Balas
    • 43. Helen Ang  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:41 am

      The Bible Society of Malaysia printed 35,000 copies of their own translation into BM which was distributed in 1997.

      Balas
  • 44. marhaeman  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Jumlah penganut Kristian di serata dunia hanya kurang lebih 25% dari penduduk dunia dan angka berkenaan tidak menunjukkan peningkatan meskipun ia telah lama ujud sebaliknya ada tanda-tanda yang ianya sedang menurun terutamanya di Barat itu sendiri. Keadaan ini mungkin ada kaitan dengan fakta berikut:

    1. Penganut sedia ada keluar agama secara terang-terang atau secara gelap-gelapan.

    2. Kebebasan mutlak yang di beri pada generasi baru di Barat menjadikan generasi ini memandang agama halangan untuk mengecapi kebebasan.

    3. “Agama baru” yang berasaskan sains dan ilmu lebih cocok dengan jiwa Barat berbanding agama yang berasaskan ritual dan spiritual.

    4. Penjajahan fizikal sudah berlalu, makanya berlalulah jua penyebaran agama menerusi muncung tombak, pedang dan senapang.

    5. Meskipun barat menguasa W.W.W. namun dalam konteks penyebaran agama ia tidak mampu mengatasi ‘keberkesanan’ penyebaran agama secara fizikal dan ‘keras’.

    Balas
  • 45. Melonhead  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 10:57 am

    I still don’t get their obsession with using Allah to refer to Tuhan in the Malay bible. And I still don’t get why the need for Malay bible in Pen. Malaysia. Is it to be used by all the churches in Pen. Malaysia? Are the sermons now all going to be in Bahasa Melayu? Are they and their congregation even fasih berbahasa Melayu? I thought none Malays do not converse in Bahasa Melayu amongst themselves, preferring English. So, all this while I was wrong…
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Kiasu sampai Allah pun dema nak kebas. — Helen

    Balas
  • 46. Shaz  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 11:25 am

    How many followers team A or B has, does not make the god of team A or B any more relevant to justify it’s existence or even support which is better to society/mankind.

    [Can i say that because i have 20 children from a couple of wives, that i'm a better provider than the widower with 2 kids?]

    What matters is evidence and reason that supports the claims of team A and team B.
    There will be hypocrites on both teams, but that aside, can either team PROVE that their god is real, and the one true god?

    And.. why on earth does God need man to argue for Him on things like “whatshisname”?

    Balas
  • 47. marhaeman  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Catatan tentang sejarah lampau terutama semasa Jesus dan era sebelumnya hanya boleh diukirkan di atas batu. Tak mungkin ada catatan yang dibuat atas lain-lain bahan (kulit haiwan, papirus, dll) mampu kekal hingga ke hari ini.

    Makanya dalam konteks sejarah Arab, kalau ada catatan sejarah yang masih kekal dan boleh dipercayai maka ianya mestilah berupa ukiran yang terdapat di gua-gua, batu-batan, tiang-tiang, dinding-dinding kuill dan tokong-tokong purba yang masih terdapat di serata Timur Tengah terutamanya di Mesir.

    Justeru kalau ada pihak (Muslim, Kristian, Dll) mendakwa bahawa perkataan ‘Allah’ telah lama digunakan oleh orang Arab sewaktu era Jesus, jahiliyah dan zaman Firaun, makanya pihak ini kenalah buktikan bahawa ejaan “Allah” ada terukir di mana-mana bangunan purba yang terdapat di sana.

    Pertanyaan khusus saya untuk Mursyidul Am ialah, bagaimana tuan tahu bahawa Arab Jahilliyah menyebut perkataan ‘Allah’ sedangkan di kala itu tidak ada pita rakaman yang dapat mengesahkan Arab Jahiliyah menggunakan sebutan berkenaan dan perkataan berkenaan merujuk kepada salah satu tuhan mereka?

    Dan kalau betul ‘Allah’ telah lama digunapakai oleh tamadun lampau, boleh tak tuan tolong tunjukkan bukti bahawa perkataan ‘Allah’ ada terukir dimana-mana dinding piramid, tokong dan kuil purba? Dan lebih afdal kalau semua bukti berkenaan di masukkan dalam Youtube agar semua pihak dapat bersetuju dengan pandangan Tuan.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    marhaeman,

    Bagi rekod Taurat, boleh tengok ni, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50239063/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/dead-sea-scrolls-online-library-launched-google-israel/#.UO460awXqHE

    Helen

    Balas
    • 48. marhaeman  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 1:03 pm

      Saya telah baca cerita berkenaan skroll itu beberapa bulan yang lampau tetapi hingga kini saya tidak pasti apa kandungannya. Kalau ada tolong berikan linknya.

      Cuma saya tidak pasti sama ada Mursyidul Am ada membaca mengenainya dan kalau ada tetapi bukti tidak memihak pada beliau, apakah beliau akan menarik balik kenyataan sendiri yang berbunyi: “Arab Jahiliyah sembah ‘Allah’?

      Seperkara lagi apakah ianya benar-benar berusia 2,000 tahun? Apakah sudah disahkan usianya menerusi kaedah saintifik?

      ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/dss/contents.html

      http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Analyzing-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-evolves-from-carbon-to-1215393.php

      Balas
  • 49. I.D.A  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    anak,bangsa,malaysia tu patut kena tangkap sebab menghina sultan selangor. ingat kes uncleseekers vs sultan johor? suruhanjaya multimedia boleh tangkap manusial ni sekejab saja… rakyat selangor yang taat setia, sila buat laporan polis segera.

    Balas
  • 50. pissedoff  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Is this Malaysia or Arabia?

    Why would they want Arab words over existing Malay words for a bible written in a language they only have contempt for?

    Why do they stand behind Lim Guan Eng and DAP? Race issues not enough? Need to stir up shit in the religion department as well?

    All just a diversion.

    BTW, very nice lah Hannah, wear tudung and ceramah in mosques to lull all those gullible muslims, then back stab them with this issue, very politician like.

    Balas
    • 51. MalaysianinNewYork  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 1:04 pm

      We have so many GODS and religions, they become handy to justify anything. It is a pity that the nature of human to justify his/her action is based on GOD and religion rather than humanity itself to prevail. The talent for self-justification is surely the finest of the human evolution, the greatest achievement of the human brain. When it comes to justifying actions, every human being acquires the intelligence of Einstein, the imagination of Shakespeare, and the subtlety of their GOD minus the truth and reality for humanity.

      Our own denial for humanity to sustain is the preface to our own individually driven justification for survival. What more can I say. If my survival and the delusion for truth and reality caused another to perish, then death would be sweeter and more beloved for me. Viva Malaysia

      Balas
    • 52. Orangkampung  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      That’s my pov. >50 tahun mereka masih tak tahu berbahasa kebangsaan tiba-tiba beriya-iya nak guna Allah yang bukan pun perkataan melayu.

      Balas
  • 53. marhaeman  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Negara kuasa ekonomi Asia rata-ratanya adalah negara di mana Kristian hanyalah minoriti. Kristian di negera Tembok Besar hanyalah mewakili kurang dari 5% penduduk di situ. Dan apabila negara Tembok Besar diramalkan bakal menggantikan negara Kristian sebagai kuasa ekonomi terbesar dunia sebelum 2040, barulah media Barat ambil berat tentang statistik 5% itu. Satu soalan yang besar ialah kenapa sekarang dan kenapa tidak sewaktu mereka berada di puncak kekuasaan ekonomi dunia?

    Balas
  • 54. Servant of God  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Dear Helen,

    I have a question I would like to ask here. Apologies that this is a c&p of my own comment in STL, but I would like to see what kind of answers I get, if any.

    ——

    I would like to ask visitors on this Allah issue.

    Obviously, there are those who think that the Christians should be allowed to use the word Allah in the bible.

    The question is why?

    Yes, we are talking about God. But the God that Muslims believe in and worship has a nature that is completely different from the nature of the God that Christians believe in.

    This is clearly stated in the al-Qur’an Chapter 112 (Surah “Al-Ikhlas”/”Sincerity”), which has four verses:

    1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
    4. And there is none like unto Him.

    On the other hand, Christianity believes in the Trinity God. That there is the “Father” and the “Son” is proof enough that the nature of God in Christianity is entirely different from Islam’s. In Islam, God has no father, and has no offspring.

    So clearly, if you’re praying to the Lord, you’re not referring to Allah SWT. So why use a term that might cause confusion, especially among those who are just coming to grips with their respective religions?

    I mean, if a guy from Scotland wants to open a service garage using his family name “McDonald’s Service Garage”, there is a good possibility that the McDonald’s burger company’s legal action against them would fall through. But if the same Scottish guy were to open “McDonald’s Burgers”, then I do not think any court in the world would allow the name to stand. The brand name is too similar to a well-known corporation’s, as is the products being offered.

    So if we are willing to seek clarity on worldly names and issues, why create confusion over something that has everlasting impact?

    Balas
    • 55. I.D.A  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 3:07 pm

      perbandingan yg menarik, SOG.

      jawapannya…teeeettt…ada udang sebalik mi…teeeeettt…menangguk di air keruh…teeeettt…boleh dapat political mileage…teeeeettt.

      [kempen mencabar melayu Islam sedang giat dijalankan dapster dengan dibantu oleh melayu pas penjual agama.]

      Balas
    • 56. Servant of God  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 9:28 am

      How disappointing. I had thought some people, such as commentor “rakyat” would jump on the opportunity to legitimize the issue.

      But, it seems that the “Allah” term issue is just another political tool by PR, with no real substance behind it aside from political mileage, as IDA had pointed out.

      Even God is not sacred to PR bastards… I don’t know what else to say.

      Balas
      • 57. rakyat  |  Januari 11, 2013 at 10:45 pm

        SOG,

        The issue now is pending the decision of the Court of Appeal, a court of civil jurisdiction. Hence, the court will not look at theological reasoning as it is a judiciary of civil nature. The CA is not a religious court like Syariah Court. It will look at the laws governing freedom and restriction of religion under the Federal Constitution and relevant state enactments. And yes, the issue now is a question of legality and constitutionality. The CA judges will disregard what the Quran or Bible say, what the Ulamak or Bishop say but will only look at what the law says.

        Balas
        • 58. Servant of God  |  Januari 14, 2013 at 4:24 pm

          I was not asking about the development of the legal process. I was asking why do the Churches want to use a name that contradicts the very nature of God that Christians believe in?

          Do you understand me? For Muslims, God begets not, nor is He begotten.

          In Christianity, God begets a Son (which is also Him? sorry, I don’t really understand the concept of the Trinity).

          So, by taking the name of Allah, you are contradicting the nature of God that you subscribe to. WHY?

          Balas
  • 59. dexs  |  Januari 10, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    Buat orang islam lepas ni sendiri pikir lah. ..sokong pr pru nanti bererti sokong benarkn nama allah dalam bible. ..kalau dulu anak tanya gsmbar jesus. .kita boleh cakap tu jesus. .tapi bila dah bagi kebenaran. .ada ke yg nak cakap. .tu allah. ..perghhh. .

    Balas
  • 60. bourne identity  |  Januari 12, 2013 at 12:07 am

    simple je – christians are being rammed from behind by Lim Guan Eng to gain votes – even my neighbour’s monkey knows that.

    Dont tell me the christians here are downright stupid to allow themselves manipulated by some of their christian church leaders who are slowly becoming the PAS version of Christians here?

    All this while muslims have never had any troubles with christians and let’s see what happens during Hari Raya and Xmas – bet you muslims and christians will avoid visiting each other’s houses! And there goes the real Malaysia…no thanx to idiots like Lim Guan Eng and his gang!

    Id shudder to think perhaps Ustazah Hanna mightve touched babi during her meals before donning a baju kurung and tudung and berceramah inside the mesjid. In a way, the muslims who invited and allowed her into the mosque are also idiots!

    Hari Raya and Christmas will NEVER EVER be the same again…

    Balas
  • 61. kelakar  |  Januari 12, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    memang tak faham dengan apa yang sudah jadi dengan malaysia. mentaliti rakyat dan pemimpin politik begitu rendah. daripada 1001 isu, kalimah allah yang menjadi pilihan. begitu banyak masa dan tenaga dibazir. semata-mata nak tentukan siapa ada hak untuk guna kalimah allah. tak ada isu lain ke? siapa-siapa boleh namakan negara mana di dunia ini yang ada isu serupa. tak kisah lah sama berebut guna kalimah allah atau perkataan jesus, tuhan buddha atau tuhan hindu.

    Balas
    • 62. I.D.A  |  Januari 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm

      boleh sebut negara lain yg ada pemimpin politik mcm LGE yg minta dibolehkan penganut kristian guna kalimah Allah? takdak kan? sebab tu lah malaysia pelik dari negara lain, sbb beruk-beruk diangkat jadi pemimpin, kaldai jadi strategist, ular jadi ulamak. itulah sebabnya – rakyat yg memilih.

      Balas

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