Tunggang terbalik: Kristian berhak membantah Muslim menggunakan kalimah Allah?

January 17, 2013 at 5:42 pm 16 comments

Ini sudah sampai puncak konpiusyen.

Petikan di bawah daripada rencana bertajuk ‘Ya Allah: The final sequel’ di blog Haris Ibrahim hari ini.

Haris ialah pelopor gerakan Asal Bukan Umno.

“Another objection frequently raised by Muslims is that Allah is one whereas the Trinitarian Christians understand him to be 3 persons in one Godhead and that this will confuse Muslims.

“Now the Trinitarian doctrine of Christians was formally adopted at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, long before the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Hence Trinitarian Christians then, and in particular the Arab Christians amongst them, understood Allah to be a trinitarian God. Did they then object to the Prophet using “Allah” to describe the one God as we understand Him to be? If objections were to be made, did the Trinitarians not then have more right to object to usage of the same word that they had been using much earlier and which the Muslims then gave a different connotation to the one they had? Might they not have objected that it might confuse their followers?”

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16 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Kontol Besar  |  January 17, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    haris ni pernah pi masjid ke? Aku tau dia selalu masuk Gereja untuk kerja amal dia…

    Reply
    • 2. Hussin Rahman  |  January 21, 2013 at 12:30 pm

      MasyALLAH, Haris ni memang dangkal. Dia jahil sangat ker tentang sejarah dunia atau sejarah kejadian alam ini? Allah yang menciptakan segalanya dan Islam itu bermula sejak azali lagi. Islam bermula sejak wujudnya Nabi Adam dan Muhammad,pbuh, adalah pelengkap ajaranNYA.

      Reply
  • 3. Melonhead  |  January 17, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    The funny thing is, when i asked my orthodox greek friends, all of them unanimously said: why in the name of heaven must christians use the word Allah to call God? If the Arab Christians did it and still do it, why must Malaysians use it in their Malay bible, since we don’t speak Arabic here? And they also said: what English or Arab bible? The bible was not originally written in English or Arabic, so what are you people talking about?

    For the record, the Orthodox Christians think that the Evangelical Christians and the Catholics are all products of ajaran sesat (don’t marah me, ok…i am just telling you all what my greek friends told me). They (my Greek friends) really hate them, esp the Pope. Shocking, ain’t it?

    My Greek friends said that these people are nothing but trouble, especially the Evangelicals. They even tried converting the Orthodox Christians into their version of Christianity. I was taken aback when they told me this.

    And in Spain, which is majority Catholics, they don’t agree with the Evangelicals either. It seems that the Evangelicals is the most aggressive Christian group out there, trying to convert even amongst other Christian sects. My father in law says that almost every weekend, the group will knock on his door trying to convert him…they are relentless.

    I hope this does not happen here. Even though our country practices freedom of religion, you don’t get people knocking on your door trying to convert you. So far, everyone respects each other’s boundaries….well, at least, the majority do.

    As for Harris Ibrahim, well, whatever that is driving him to do the things that he does, to believe the things that he wants to believe, well, let him. It will still not change the truth, no matter how hard some people want to spin it.

    Moral of the story…you may believe in something very strongly, but that does not mean others do too, and that does not mean you have the right to shove it down other people’s throat. You go your way with your belief, i will go my way with mine. Peace.

    Reply
    • 4. Melonhead  |  January 17, 2013 at 6:30 pm

      And just for Mr. Harris Ibrahim, if he were to have read the Quran, he will know that the concept of Trinity has been explained there. Then, he will not be using the arguments that he have used above (the one that Ms. Helen has highlighted).

      My convert husband has this to say to all the Malay Muslims out there who are busy fighting for others to use Allah in their Kitab, and for Malays to have freedom of religion, i.e. murtad: Of all the things that you can be fighting for, for you to champion, for all the injustices out there, the imbalances out there, you chose THIS to champion?

      Reply
  • 5. Reuven  |  January 17, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Pulau Batu Puteh was originally belonged to The Tanah Melayu but since it was Singapore who has been using it for the maritime industry, therefore they have more rights than Tanah Melayu over the using of that island. Same analogy applies to ‘Allah’.

    Reply
    • 6. Melonhead  |  January 17, 2013 at 6:32 pm

      By that logic, more rights too should be awarded to the Bumiputras and yet, who are the ones that are shouting the loudest on equality and an end to NEP?

      Reply
      • 7. Reuven  |  January 17, 2013 at 7:08 pm

        The latest edition of the Theological Journal has stated that it is the earth which is circling around the sun but not the other way around. But some commentators in Haris Blog argued that based on the 2nd edition of the same journal they still believe it is the sun which is encircling the earth. So how?

        Reply
  • 8. I.D.A  |  January 17, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    H.I. ni sesat jalan. sesetengah orang mmg dibiar dalam kesesatan dan digelapkan hati walaupun lahir Islam. manakala ada yg mendapat hidayah akhirnya walaupun sebelum itu menentang Islam.

    Reply
  • 9. Janganlihat  |  January 17, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Dan lagi sekali para ektrimis kiasu yang ‘Educated’ mengambil pandangan dari seorang yang tidak mempunyai fahaman islam secara menyeluruh untuk menjadikan hujah, bahawasanya Allah itu boleh digunakan oleh orang kristian.

    Pelik, ektrimis kiasu yang menganut agama suci dari tuhan yesus kristus ini lebih menyukaikan pandangan seseorang yang beragama islam, bernama seperti orang islam tapi mempunyai mindset yang bercanggah akan dengan landasan islam itu untuk menghalalkan perbuatan mereka yang mereka ektrimis kiasu ini anggap adalah suci.

    Saya rasa – tidak perlulah para Ilmuan Islam, mufti, cendekiawan Islam berhempas pulas untuk berhujah dengan ektrimis kiasu ini.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I’m holding back the rest of your reverse psychology comment. Sensitive period lah now. We don’t want people to become even more upset. Thanks. — Helen

    Reply
  • 10. marhaeman  |  January 17, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    Kebiadaban terhadap agama tidak pernah berlaku sebelum ini yakni semasa YB Muslim tidak kerap masuk gereja dan YB bukan Islam tidak kerap masuk masjid.

    Ironisnya, kebiadaban terhadap agama sekarang ini berlaku tatkala YB Islam sering masuk gereja dan YB Kristian sering masuk masjid. Apakah ada pertalian atau kebetulan?

    Reply
    • 11. Helen Ang  |  January 17, 2013 at 10:19 pm

      Exactly!

      That’s what I’ve been trying to explain.

      Sebelum ini masing-masing tahu jaga sempadan.

      Sekarang nampak mereka sudah ada lesen naik-turun masjid sesuka hati dan para pengikut pun memandai.

      Evangelista ingatkan diri lagi pakar berbanding Melayu yang lahir Islam dalam bahasa Arab, dalam membuat tafsir kitab al-Quran, dan boleh beri tunjuk ajar yang mana hak, yang mana batil kepada orang “low class” bukan Kristian.

      Reply
      • 12. antireligiousextremists  |  January 18, 2013 at 1:52 am

        Si para DAP tu boleh naik turun masjid sebut ayat, seru orang PAS takbir (that I watched in some youtube video, the PAS people actually takbir) tapi dalam hati agaknya puak kristian tu semuanya macam Patrick Teoh.

        Rasanya ni bukan perasaan sepihak je, walaupun PAS sanggup bagi tanah kat DAP mungkin dalam hati mereka nak DAP 6 kaki bawah tanah. Sedangkan sesama agama Islam dalam UMNO pun bermusuhan dahsyat sekali.

        Rasanya Pakatn Rakyat ni macam pihak Rusia dan German masa WW2. Tunggu Operation Barbarossa je.

        Reply
        • 13. Helen Ang  |  January 18, 2013 at 1:59 am

          re: “dalam hati agaknya puak kristian tu semuanya macam Patrick Teoh”

          You think so?

          Tony Yew pun sependapat. Beliau memblog:

          “The current general sentiment is this ‘anti-establishment’ feel, and the general notion is that there are many more non-Malay voters out there who probably share the same view of Patrick Teoh.”

          http://muststopthis.blogspot.com/2013/01/stoplooklisten.html

          Reply
  • 14. Antihipokrit  |  January 18, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Kalau lihat video pesanan mendiang kanang anak langkau, beliau sama sekali tidak senang dgn tindak tanduk orang2 politik dari semenanjung yg mempergunakan agama untuk mengadu domba. Beliau kata selama ini Kristian Sabah dan Sarawak takde masalah dgn sesiapa pun, dan tetiba Cina Kristian Evengelis nak buat huru hara. Dibantu pula dgn Islam mcm Haris Ibrahim and the geng.

    Reply
  • 15. MalayPrincess  |  January 18, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    I really think that Muslim’s One & Only Allah is so COOL and AWESOME beyond words and explanation that Chinese Christian in Malaysia willing to fight with flesh and blood to get the right to use it in Bible particularly BM version.

    Allah in Islam is EASY to understand and explain because HE is THE ONE and ONLY GOD.

    Allah has 99 beautiful names that describes HIS mighty power which is called as Asma-ul Husna and then followed by 20 Allah Attributes to explain HIS mighty character. Google if you don’t know.

    Then we have one specific Quran verse; Surah Al-Ikhlas that distinguish Allah from His creation, be it human, animals or anything in this world.

    If Harris Ibrahim wants to use ALLAH in Trinitarian Concept, for which God he must refer? For Jesus, God Father or Holy Spirit? Or ALLAH is the new addition in Bahasa Malaysia’s BIBLE?

    If God like human, so what makes God so special that we need to worship Him? Better worship Tokong LGE coz he probably can give DAPSTER almost anything hehehe….

    p/s: There’s one Allah name; Al-Quddūs that brings the meaning of The Holy, The Pure, The Perfect. Allah is THE PERFECT, He doesn’t need anything to support Him.

    But your Holy Spirit is still lacking of its own weight, it needs back up from God Father and Jesus to make it 3. But still you want to steal Allah?

    Reply
  • 16. Antibebal  |  January 19, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Terima kasih kepada Helen Ang,

    Rasional pada isu ini sepatutnya bukan isu orang bukan Islam boleh gunakan atau tidak kalimah Allah itu. Bukan ke Allah yg jadikan kita semua samada mereka menyakini Allah itu Pencipta mereka ataupun bukan? Ironinya diatas muka bumi ini terdapat bermacam-macam bangsa dan fahaman “ugama” yg berbagai-bagai. Cuma dikalangan semua manusia yang Allah telah jadikan ada yang terdiri dari ahli Kitab yang mewakili nabi mereka masing-masing. Contohnya bani Israel nabi mereka bermula dari Nabi Yacob, sehingga la Nabi Isa alaihisallam (Jesus kata orang Keristian). Dari kalangan bangsa Arab bermula dari Nabi Ismail sehingga Nabi Muhammad SAW (penutup sekalian Nabi yang telah Allah utuskan semenjak dari zaman Nabi Adam alaihissalam).

    Logiknya selagi anda adalah manusia baik lelaki atau perempuan memang la terpulang kepada anda untuk menerima Allah atau sebaliknya. Isu utamanya disini selain dari alasan Paderi gereja Katolik yang mengatakan konon nya orang Arab sudah lama gunakan !! Tidak kah penganut Keristian sepatutnya berasa pelik Jesus bukan berbangsa Arab dan apakah Jesus pernah keluarkan arahan boleh menggunakan bahasa lain selain dari bahasa ibundanya sendiri untuk beribadah? Kalau selain dari Jesus yang mengeluarkan arahan “baharu” itu masih ada kredibiliti kah arahan yang direkacipta itu walaupun mereka mengatakan sudah lebih 50 tahun atau 100 tahun mereka mempraktikkan nya? Wal hal dari zaman Jesus sudah lebih 2000 tahun jarak masanya !!!

    Kalau begitu orang Israel dan orang Islam lebih asli pendekatan mereka walaupun mereka (Israel) menggunakan kitab Talmudic untuk “beribadah”, dan kami (Muslim) dengan Al Quran sebab Nabi kami Muhammad SAW berbangsa Arab. Tidak kira apa pun bangsa atau etnik seseorang Muslim itu bacaan didalam solat tetap menggunakan bahasa Arab Al Quran. Padahal pihak Keristian terpaksa modified bermacam-macam dari ayat, bahasa dan sehingga nama Tuhan kitab Bible mereka pun ditukar ikut suka hati mereka. Kalau “benda” (Kitab) ini berupa alat atau injin mungkin untuk memperkemaskan lagi “performance”. Tetapi bila applikasi “modification” itu kita apply pada ibadah dan kepercayaan ugama, ia akan jadi suatu bentuk teori “agak-agak” dan sudah pasti akan menjana “error” atau kepincangan dan menimbulkan persoalan seperti sekarang. Puncanya kerana ajaran Keristian sudah tiada keaslian ajaran yang asal atau hilang authentic nya !!

    Apabila penganut Keristian hilangnya daya berfikir yang “sihat” atau kemahuan untuk mencari keaslian yang bermatlamatkan ajaran yang sebenar maka sikap yang berpaksi kepada taksub pada seseorang yang dianggap bolih dipercayai akan mengambil alih minda “intellectual” manusia seperti mereka. Dan orang seperti ini jugalah yang tiada masalah untuk menerima Allah boleh juga ada anak (Trinity) untuk melengkapi kekurangan yang telah diwarisi oleh fahaman Keristian sejak berkurun lamanya itu. Orang Islam tidak akan setuju dgn kemahuan pihak Keristian kerana nama Pencipta kami telah disatukan didalam Bible yang pihak Keristian anggap Allah pun ada anak jugak !! Bab inilah yang gagal dinyatakan didalam penjelasan olih Dr. Maza untuk pembaca Keristian atau bukan Islam baru-baru ini, pelik jugak !!

    Kalau masih ada pihak Keristian yang tak faham-faham juga penjelasan ini bererti “rezeki” anda utk bab tahap kefahaman ciri-ciri sebenar Pencipta hanya setakat itu sahaja lah kemampuannya. Puncanya kerana taksub dengan paderi Keristian anda atau ego anda sendiri. Selari dengan perkataan Inggeris yang sarat dgn sikap putus asa yg berbunyi “Ask no question you got no lies”.

    Reply

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