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	<title>Komen bagi: Behind the bible-burning that failed to materialize (update breaking news)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 18:03:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: Atas pagar</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Atas pagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are 12 millions migrants who live in the Uncle Sam&#039;s backyard and they have no papers!

If they have to follow the immigration law strictly, all those migrants would be forced to leave or else face the music.

From the above, we can conclude that when it come the a large number of offences even the most muscular entity couldn&#039;t flex its muscle on the offenders!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 12 millions migrants who live in the Uncle Sam&#8217;s backyard and they have no papers!</p>
<p>If they have to follow the immigration law strictly, all those migrants would be forced to leave or else face the music.</p>
<p>From the above, we can conclude that when it come the a large number of offences even the most muscular entity couldn&#8217;t flex its muscle on the offenders!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: Helen Ang</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Helen Ang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An update on the state jurisdiction over kalimah Allah.

In case you missed this,

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/allah-for-muslims-only-says-former-chief-justice/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An update on the state jurisdiction over kalimah Allah.</p>
<p>In case you missed this,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/allah-for-muslims-only-says-former-chief-justice/" rel="nofollow">http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/allah-for-muslims-only-says-former-chief-justice/</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Oleh: I hate n'sync</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I hate n'sync]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The question of murtaad in our syariah laws is a conundrum atm for several reasons, not the least because the limitations of the Islamic courts in Malaysia.

It can only pass sentences of not more than three years imprisonment, a fine of up to RM5,000, and/or up to six strokes of the cane. I believed that&#039;s the new limit, it used to be less. The real question is, do our state lawmakers really want to go somewhere they might regret?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of murtaad in our syariah laws is a conundrum atm for several reasons, not the least because the limitations of the Islamic courts in Malaysia.</p>
<p>It can only pass sentences of not more than three years imprisonment, a fine of up to RM5,000, and/or up to six strokes of the cane. I believed that&#8217;s the new limit, it used to be less. The real question is, do our state lawmakers really want to go somewhere they might regret?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: rakyat</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rakyat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i hate n&#039;sync,

&quot;The question has always been whether our religious authorities are trying to legislate something that is not governable.&quot;

Good point. The government can legislate and create as many act/enactment. We have first class laws but third class enforcement. Harussani Zakaria alleged in 2006 that about 100k Muslims have renounced Islam. His statement is reported by Mkini. Until today, there is no prosecution on the proselytizers under the relevant state enactments. 

Similarly, there is no remedial action taken on the converted persons. Harussani didn&#039;t sue Mkini for defamation and the government also didn&#039;t take action against him for spreading &#039;lies&#039;. Perak government also didn&#039;t sack him. So, who is speaking the truth here? I am really confused.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i hate n&#8217;sync,</p>
<p>&#8220;The question has always been whether our religious authorities are trying to legislate something that is not governable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point. The government can legislate and create as many act/enactment. We have first class laws but third class enforcement. Harussani Zakaria alleged in 2006 that about 100k Muslims have renounced Islam. His statement is reported by Mkini. Until today, there is no prosecution on the proselytizers under the relevant state enactments. </p>
<p>Similarly, there is no remedial action taken on the converted persons. Harussani didn&#8217;t sue Mkini for defamation and the government also didn&#8217;t take action against him for spreading &#8216;lies&#8217;. Perak government also didn&#8217;t sack him. So, who is speaking the truth here? I am really confused.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: atas pagar</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[atas pagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 06:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Likely?

If it is used by your opponent, it become bullshit but if it is used by  you and the likes, it become sacred bullshit? Don&#039;t you think your opponent also has the right not to take you seriously?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Likely?</p>
<p>If it is used by your opponent, it become bullshit but if it is used by  you and the likes, it become sacred bullshit? Don&#8217;t you think your opponent also has the right not to take you seriously?</p>
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		<title>Oleh: jonnymalaya</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22606</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonnymalaya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 03:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yawn, in last few years, right wingers of the umno perkasa variety have threatened all sorts of actions. Perhimpunan Amuk, Panglima Perang, race war, over 9000 silat masters to counter bersih, and now burn Bibles... straight from IA&#039;s mouth. What happened? Nothing.

So its also likely the leaftets may have come from the those guys.

And why should I also take unspinners seriously? All their stuff is shown to be bullshit anyways...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yawn, in last few years, right wingers of the umno perkasa variety have threatened all sorts of actions. Perhimpunan Amuk, Panglima Perang, race war, over 9000 silat masters to counter bersih, and now burn Bibles&#8230; straight from IA&#8217;s mouth. What happened? Nothing.</p>
<p>So its also likely the leaftets may have come from the those guys.</p>
<p>And why should I also take unspinners seriously? All their stuff is shown to be bullshit anyways&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: i hate n'sync</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22604</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[i hate n'sync]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 02:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The exclusive usage is not limited by race but by religion referenced. To pick an example of Melaka&#039;s gazetted list (Enakmen Kawalan dan Sekatan Pengembangan Agama Bukan Islam 1988 - 33 words and 15 phrases), note that even Assalamualaikum (Peace be upon you) is barred from non-muslim use in Malaysia when in fact it is the suffix w.b.t. that is Islamic. 

Words: firman Allah, ulama, hadis, ibadah, kaabah, kadi, Ilahi, wahyu, mubaligh, syariat, kiblat, haji, mufti, rasul, iman, dakwah, solat, khalifah, wali, fatwa, imam, nabi, sheikh, akhirat, azan, al-Quran, al-Sunnah, hauliak, karamah, shahadah, masjid dan Baitullah.
 
Phrase: Subhanallah, Alhamdulillah, Lailahaillallah, Walillahilhamd, Allahu Akbar, insya-Allah, Astaghfirullah Azim, Tabaraka Allah, masya-Allah, Lahaula Walaquata Illabillahil Azim, Assalamualaikum, Wallahi, Wabillahi, Watallahi dan Auzubillah.
 
The penalty is a RM1,000 fine, most likely administered under the Mahkamah Majistret.

JAIS&#039;s list is shorter (25 words and 10 phrases).

Penang, like the Federal Territories, Sabah and Sarawak, have not gazetted such laws. So I suppose the only PR states in the soup is Selangor, as I don&#039;t forsee PAS ever going to let that happen in Kedah or Kelantan. To Khalid&#039;s credit, I remembered he did proposed such a revision but was immediately shot down. 

I think once you need the law to limit word usage for a particular religion, these are signs of repressive and regressive laws. Our muslim friends must realize that there is some confusion in ISOLATING State Islam (ASWJ) and in PROTECTING Islam. I am actually still trying to undestand how gazetting those words for exclusive use to refer to the Islamic faith will make a difference. I am sure the gazette doesn&#039;t mean non-muslims cannot use it to refer to Islam, it means that proselytizers cannot use the words out of the specified Islamic context. The question has always been whether our religious authorities are trying to legislate something that is not governable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The exclusive usage is not limited by race but by religion referenced. To pick an example of Melaka&#8217;s gazetted list (Enakmen Kawalan dan Sekatan Pengembangan Agama Bukan Islam 1988 &#8211; 33 words and 15 phrases), note that even Assalamualaikum (Peace be upon you) is barred from non-muslim use in Malaysia when in fact it is the suffix w.b.t. that is Islamic. </p>
<p>Words: firman Allah, ulama, hadis, ibadah, kaabah, kadi, Ilahi, wahyu, mubaligh, syariat, kiblat, haji, mufti, rasul, iman, dakwah, solat, khalifah, wali, fatwa, imam, nabi, sheikh, akhirat, azan, al-Quran, al-Sunnah, hauliak, karamah, shahadah, masjid dan Baitullah.</p>
<p>Phrase: Subhanallah, Alhamdulillah, Lailahaillallah, Walillahilhamd, Allahu Akbar, insya-Allah, Astaghfirullah Azim, Tabaraka Allah, masya-Allah, Lahaula Walaquata Illabillahil Azim, Assalamualaikum, Wallahi, Wabillahi, Watallahi dan Auzubillah.</p>
<p>The penalty is a RM1,000 fine, most likely administered under the Mahkamah Majistret.</p>
<p>JAIS&#8217;s list is shorter (25 words and 10 phrases).</p>
<p>Penang, like the Federal Territories, Sabah and Sarawak, have not gazetted such laws. So I suppose the only PR states in the soup is Selangor, as I don&#8217;t forsee PAS ever going to let that happen in Kedah or Kelantan. To Khalid&#8217;s credit, I remembered he did proposed such a revision but was immediately shot down. </p>
<p>I think once you need the law to limit word usage for a particular religion, these are signs of repressive and regressive laws. Our muslim friends must realize that there is some confusion in ISOLATING State Islam (ASWJ) and in PROTECTING Islam. I am actually still trying to undestand how gazetting those words for exclusive use to refer to the Islamic faith will make a difference. I am sure the gazette doesn&#8217;t mean non-muslims cannot use it to refer to Islam, it means that proselytizers cannot use the words out of the specified Islamic context. The question has always been whether our religious authorities are trying to legislate something that is not governable.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: Helen Ang</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Helen Ang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a genuine user of BM, I would like to access to words like iman, nabi and ibadah without some regulation hanging over my head. The list of faith words made off-limits to non-Muslims keeps growing longer and longer.

Agree with you about the Aduns not doing their jobs.

Yeah, Selangor and Penang should walk the talk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a genuine user of BM, I would like to access to words like iman, nabi and ibadah without some regulation hanging over my head. The list of faith words made off-limits to non-Muslims keeps growing longer and longer.</p>
<p>Agree with you about the Aduns not doing their jobs.</p>
<p>Yeah, Selangor and Penang should walk the talk.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Oleh: I hate n'sync</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I hate n'sync]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this has gone on long enough. People are speculating about an event that DID NOT HAPPEN. Normally, when a negative or possibly seditious incident was avoided, it means that common sense prevailed. Whether it is deliberate provocation or planted misinformation, cooler heads prevailed. The fact that the event did not take place does not mean few disagree with what was proposed. Despite that, I will take the whole incident positively, in general.

The muslims can never win, whether bibles were burned or not burned. The Allah row stems from the act of ADUNs who voted to keep such terms away from the use by non-muslims in the late 1980s onwards. Where was DAP and PAS state assemblymen back then? Weren&#039;t they complicit in the entire affair? Tak cukup majoriti? The laws are still here and although it is Syariah in nature, it has been given a civil court enforcement and is applicable to non-muslims. If PKR and DAP support the use of Allah by ALL Malaysians, FIX the State laws la, say start with Penang then Selangor. Grow some balls and actually walk the talk, do the job you are supposed (and paid) to do, which is de-regulate the use of terms like Solat, Kaabah, Allah, etc. 

Jangan bagi sokongan air liur aje, buatlah kerja dan kena berani menegakkan apa yang dianggap benar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this has gone on long enough. People are speculating about an event that DID NOT HAPPEN. Normally, when a negative or possibly seditious incident was avoided, it means that common sense prevailed. Whether it is deliberate provocation or planted misinformation, cooler heads prevailed. The fact that the event did not take place does not mean few disagree with what was proposed. Despite that, I will take the whole incident positively, in general.</p>
<p>The muslims can never win, whether bibles were burned or not burned. The Allah row stems from the act of ADUNs who voted to keep such terms away from the use by non-muslims in the late 1980s onwards. Where was DAP and PAS state assemblymen back then? Weren&#8217;t they complicit in the entire affair? Tak cukup majoriti? The laws are still here and although it is Syariah in nature, it has been given a civil court enforcement and is applicable to non-muslims. If PKR and DAP support the use of Allah by ALL Malaysians, FIX the State laws la, say start with Penang then Selangor. Grow some balls and actually walk the talk, do the job you are supposed (and paid) to do, which is de-regulate the use of terms like Solat, Kaabah, Allah, etc. </p>
<p>Jangan bagi sokongan air liur aje, buatlah kerja dan kena berani menegakkan apa yang dianggap benar.</p>
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		<title>Oleh: Atas Pagar</title>
		<link>http://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/behind-the-bible-burning-that-failed-to-materialize/#comment-22583</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Atas Pagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://helenang.wordpress.com/?p=24607#comment-22583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue here is more about the leaflet not the event. Unspinner was right when they say the leaflet doesn&#039;t belong to Perkasa based on its composition, grammar and arrangement and subsequently the no-show itself is another proof to support their assumption.

Since you didn&#039;t buy their argument, that mean you have your own assumption. So in your opinion who did the &quot;baling batu sembunyi tangan&quot; with regard to leaflet issue? And please bear in mind that you also need to produce the evidence. OK Bro!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue here is more about the leaflet not the event. Unspinner was right when they say the leaflet doesn&#8217;t belong to Perkasa based on its composition, grammar and arrangement and subsequently the no-show itself is another proof to support their assumption.</p>
<p>Since you didn&#8217;t buy their argument, that mean you have your own assumption. So in your opinion who did the &#8220;baling batu sembunyi tangan&#8221; with regard to leaflet issue? And please bear in mind that you also need to produce the evidence. OK Bro!</p>
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