Posted in Evangelis

Perbincangan murtad yang logik

“Anak-anak kaum muslimin mustahil akan terpengaruh dengan Bible jika mereka membaca al-Quran. Ada yang kata: masalahnya mereka tidak baca al-Quran. Kita tanya; jika al-Quran pun mereka tidak minat baca, macam mana pula mereka berminat membaca Bible?” (… kelakar juga ya, Dr Maza nih)

PetikanMurtad: Antara emosi dan realiti

Rencana sepenuhnya oleh bekas mufti Perlis Dr Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin di Utusan.

Bagi sesiapa yang berminat membaca Dr Asri dalam bahasa Inggeris ada terjemahan.

Saya cedok (lihat bawah) beberapa perenggan daripada rencana yang sama di buku Dr Asri, ‘Islam in Malaysia: Perceptions & Facts’ yang merupakan kutipan rencana-rencana kolumnya dalam Utusan.


“Likewise, let us not be deceived by our enemies into believing that the number of apostates has reached the hundreds of thousands. There certainly are apostates, but they do not number so many, and we should not declare others apostates on the basis of rumour.

“Do we really wish to create an environment of constant mutual accusation? This will bring only disorder to the Ummah.

“Emphasising the large number of apostates does nothing but advance the agenda of the enemies of Islam. It causes the world to bring pressure on our country so as not to ignore the rights of those hundreds of thousands, and so apostasy will receive support from the world at large.

“Secondly, by acknowledging such claims we will break the spirits of those intending to embrace Islam and we will defeat efforts to invite others to Islam. How embarrassing it is when the Muslims in the West, while under a great deal of pressure, still successfully bring many in the West to Islam, whereas here we panic about stories of apostates. No government bestows special treatment on Muslims in the West, what more provide for Muslim law.

“Here — in a country with many mosques, frequent public sermons, religious departments and mufti, many Islamic organisations, a Constitution that speaks of Islam, many religious teachers who prosper from preaching fees, where muftis are accounted wealthy, where Islamic slogans are heard everywhere — here we announce that hundreds of thousands have committed apostasy. But Muslims in the West, who live in more challenging environments, announce that hundreds of thousands have embraced Islam.” <Unquote>

Mutakhir: Isu murtad dan statistik (Mujahid Yusof Rawa)

Juga: Seminar di Johor: ‘Ancaman Kristianisasi terhadap umat Islam’


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13 thoughts on “Perbincangan murtad yang logik

  1. Huyoo

    I fear you Helen. Hahaha. You know more about Islam than a lot of us practicing Muslims. I don’t agree with some core Islamic issues of Maza, but I do agree with him on this. However, those few that he spoke of, should have been taken care of by the state authorities. My comments are venomous on this issue because the party that prided itself as Islamic, not only did nothing to help, instead hampered the actions of those who were. They have enormous resources in Selangor, but on this issue they could do nothing?

    There are other factors, but it will only ‘buka pekung di dada’ for Muslims.

    Semoga kita semua dapat hidup aman di negara bertuah ini

    1. What Huyoo means by saying, “I fear you Helen. Hahaha. You know more about Islam than a lot of us practicing Muslims.” is that “You know more about my own religion, Helen, because I myself don’t care putz about it.”.

      And what he/she means by saying, “I don’t agree with some core Islamic issues of Maza, but I do agree with him on this” is that “whenever Dr Maza speaks and writes anything about enjoining amalus-Salih, and perbanyakkan ibadat or read Quran or follow sunnah, bleaaah—I hate him to the core. But whenever he sounds apologetic about Islam, hey! He’s my Man! For how else can I manifest in me what Allah says in al-Baqarah 14:- “And when they meet those who believe, they say: “We believe,” but when they are alone with their Shayatin, they say: “Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking.””

      But what Huyoo would REALLY like to say is “Can we please not print any more of this Kak Long comments. Quoting Qur’an here and there. Who does she think she is. A good muslim? Not that we gonna die whenever people exploit the truth, if you get my meaning”.

      Kak Long

      Kak Long,

      I don’t know enough about Islam, really. Perhaps it is only relative to other Chinese Malaysians that I appear more open-minded — due to greater exposure to the Malay community as well as speaking in BM and participating in inter-faith events (b’cos I’m in an NGO). And of course I read.

      After having said the above, this blog as a channel for communication is open to Muslims like you & Penyokong Ketuanan to clarify, to inform & to discuss. Your input will broaden my knowledge as well as the perspectives of the non-Muslim readers here.


  2. Peace be upon you, Helen Ang.

    May you find the answers you seek, and find the truths behind them.

  3. Somebody should really come up with valid figures about these claims. I think that is more logical than any thing else.

    1. There’s anon with a small “a” now. Welcome to the discussion – on my own behalf as a participant in this blog.

      I’ll continue with Anon capital “A”. Will pop in with relevant comments another time.

      1. On second thought, maybe it doesn’t really matter whether it was hundreds or hundred of thousands that were converted from Islam into Christianity.
        Only the facts on whether such an organized and widespread attempt is taking place or not, who’s behind it and who’s supporting it.

  4. Salaam Helen, back in Malaysia now and feel the difference in atmosphere.. I fear all parties who are trying to ‘test power’ by being provocative will foolishly sacrifice our peace. Warning signs are already there eg KFC incident, Alhamdulillah we are not the same people we were 43 years ago.
    It is true what Dr Asri says, in the US even with the daily slandering of Islam on TV and the fear-mongering by bloggers and mainstream press like Newsweek, Americans are embracing Islam in droves. Some scholars opine that it is ‘tanda Kiamat’ where the sun will rise from the West, not literally the sun but the ‘nur’ of the enlightened ones. Allah says at the end of Surah Muhammad in the Quran that if we Muslims do not appreciate and practice sincerely the message He has given us, He will ‘replace us with a people who are not like us’. Entah lah. Allah knows best. Peace.

    Glad you’re back in this forum. — Helen

  5. I like to share my experience in this topic. I am a Muslim and had behind me 12 years’ early education in an Anglican Church in Singapore. It was rare in the 50s & 60s for Malays to study in Christian missionary school then. My late dad took the gamble sending me to that school and it was certainly a blessing. Contrary to most Malays at that time, I was was able to speak and write fluently in English and had in depth knowledge ot the bible. In the beginning, I was amazed by some similarity in the name of prophets of both religion. But later, I found the doctrines and faith are far part. Nevertheless, I’m glad that I’ve studied and read the bible from A to Z. Therefore, Alhamdulillah, I’m confident and firm in my Islamic faith and always feel confortable when socializing with Christian friends.

    Good on you, sir. — Helen

    P.S. Did your family pindah after 1965, if you don’t mind sharing your story?

  6. Good day to you too, maam.

    I left my Singaporean parents & siblings in 1977 to migrate permanently to Malaysia due to indifferences with the PAP policy. Throughout 35 years as Malaysian, I notice only the late Tun Razak & Tun Dr. Mahathir had tremendously brought eminent progress and development to the nation,

    For your info, it was compulsory for me to say the Christian prayer and sing the hymnal song at everymorning school assembly through out my 12 years’ schooling. However, my late dad arranged me to attend the Islamic Religious in the afternoon, at nightime reciting the Glorious Al Quran with guidance from an Ustaz.

    So when there is a discussion or a dialogue about this 2 religion, I am always at ease. I remembered telling my teacher ‘No Muslim is a Muslim if he do not believe in Jesus Christ (Isa Al Masih). Jesus believes in One God. Jesus circumsized, Jesus fasted. Jesus stayed away from wine and pork. Jesus & Moses prayed by throwing their face to the ground. All these accounts are narrated in the bible where Muslims continue to practise. Maybe we should give a thought about that.

    Which part of PAP policy, may I ask? Methinks some Penangites would be quite happy if their ‘country’ were to become Republic of S’pore North, haha. — Helen

    1. “Methinks some Penangites would be quite happy if their ‘country’ were to become Republic of S’pore North”

      dear helen, funny you should say that…

      last week, i wrote the response below to one of your other commenters but i never posted it. can’t remember why, probably because i changed my mind about its relevance.

      your remark makes me think that maybe i wasn’t really seeing shadows [of pertinence is the second part of my comment, about a surmise], so here goes:

      … from the distance of my perch, i dare say it is the result of a new risky DAP strategy. it is of fomenting issues that have always festered with the chinese community but have advisably been skirted around before for the sake of shared prosperity. now DAP has convinced the chinese malaysians that prudence a la
      MCA/GERAKAN is so last century. : )

      this recent move of throwing all cautions to the wind suggests that their strategists feel that it is now feasible to achieve whatever it is DAP has always wanted to achieve* in the long and short runs. i’m sure many agree that the opportunity presented itself to DAP in the events that led to the toppling of the paklah administration when PKR and PAS not only offered to share a bed but their backs as well.

      from the perspective of political moves, who could fault DAP if they see this risky opportunity as timely. they once dared 513 in 1969 when the malays were supposedly less “liberal”. now with so many proudly beating “liberal” chests, including PAS supporters who before were notorious for their belligerence about things “kafir”, they probably anticipate a different outcome. [even as i say best of luck to DAP, i have to say God help malaysia! ]

      now this next surmise of mine is pandering a bit to conspiracy theory. in all honesty i have nothing to justify my suspicion, but the idea has been gnawing in my mind that this new strategy was hatched or had been given substance when LKY made his historic visit to malaysia sometime back, when he pointedly sought out LGE in penang.

      i admire LKY very much for his achievements with spore, but lately i’ve come to suspect that the old man probably never quite got over being ousted from his country of birth in spite of being able to spectacularly thumb his nose about it in his lifetime. getting pulau batu putih must have been sweet. but what a coup it would be to his festering grudge if the other island off semenanjung, the other pearl in the former british empire, were to be wrested too, even if only emotionally.


      1. Indeed Mekyam, God save Malaysia. Bulan jatuh ke riba DAP is al-Nakba, a catastrophe, for the Chinese community.

        You’re correct in your reading that DAP knows how to press all the right buttons in order to activate the long-held grievances & resentments of the Chinese community. Hence the emergence of the DAPster Syndrome.

        I concur that they’ve thrown caution to the winds with their risky ‘all or nothing’ gambit but what they’re gambling is not their own political capital but the hard-earned assets of the Chinese community, like our schools.

        Looking at the way they treated the Kg Buah Pala villagers, we can see how they would have treated poor people in S’gor if they had indeed been given the opportunity to exercise power in 1969. Even today, through the lopsidedness of S’gor Times they’re showing their true colours.

        Emotionally the Chinese on Penang island are … well … incipient DAPsters. That’s why DAP previously tried their Tanjung 1,2,3 projects in Penang. Chinese in M’sia are naturally opposition supporters just as Malays have traditionally been pro-establishment. In 2008, the planets were finally in alignment for DAP.

        There seems to be a general consensus that Koh Tsu Koon is a “gentleman” despite all the ridicule & curses (fanned by LGE’s lieutenants & terracotta warriors) that have been heaped on him. This could have something to do with his Chinese educationist background.

        The mock Caliph is regarded as a streetfighter, and this view given voice by the top BN personalities past & present. The tragedy for opposition voters today is that DAP evangelists – in whom they have placed the reins of state government – understand neither the Chinese nor the Malay.

        Yeopies (and more particularly DAPsters in Pg) nowadays can’t even open their mouths without a stream of invectives flowing out & spewed at BN – like invariably calling the PM “N-a-j-i-*”, his wife “Fat Mama”, CSL “**** star”.

        I really don’t see how the rest of the country can co-exist with them. I for one, wouldn’t want them as my neighbours.

      2. PAP rode the communist tiger to get into power in the 60″S.
        It was part of LKY tactics later to screw on.

        Remember how LKY said to LGE, “we will teach you ”

        And also how LGE tries to be hero for ‘Chimp peng’, again trying to gain support from the old communist diehards in Chinese community.

        So now DAP is riding the PAS kerbau/ donkey.

        Wait and see ‘siapa yang kena’

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