Posted in DAPster

Bersih 3.0: DAP, Christians, churches

• Former premier Dr Mahathir Mohamad yesterday described the rally as an attempt to topple the government.

• “… the Election Commission deputy chairman Wan Ahmad chose to parrot the BN politicians’ accusation that Bersih aim to topple the BN government through mass rallies, or at least help the opposition build momentum to capture Putrajaya”, observed BK Ong, northern region coordinator with election watchdog Mafrel.

Compiled below is a sampling of some familiar names – and some of them connected with DAP – and excerpts of what they’ve said about Bersih. Knowing who these people are will help connect the dots to the Bersih canvas being painted.

DAP’s good friend Aliran

• Aliran past president P. Ramakrishnan stressed that if Malaysians want change, then they have to change the government. He said this at the high-tea hosted by Aliran for Pak Samad and other Bersih steering committee members which was attended by 500 people in Penang two days ago. (source: Anil Netto)

• ‘The debacle of mishandling‘ — Dr Hsu Dar Ren

(11 July 2011) “Contrary to what the authorities tried to portray, those who took part in the rally were multiracial; not just Christian groups as would have been the case if the allegation of Christian funding was true.

[Dr Hsu is a Malaysian Insider columnist and he wrote the above regarding allegations that Bersih 2.0 was funded by Christian groups; bold emphasis mine]

Pre-Bersih 3.0

‘The Christian mandate vs a stolen mandate’ — Bob Teoh

(25 April 2012) “Should Christians support Bersih 3.0? I say yes, without any hesitation.”

• ‘Are churches misusing the pulpit? Yes, they should!‘ — Alwyn Lau

(25 April 2012) “Bersih 3.0 is around the corner. Election fraud is imminent. Putrajaya’s war drums are sounding. What do Christians do?”

Answer: “Put bluntly, Malaysian preachers are ALREADY — by their actions, online activity, conversations, etc. ‘telling their congregation who to vote for’. Yet, on the pulpit, everyone expects preachers to be ‘neutral’. Since when is the pulpit a mini-Geneva?”

[Alwyn Lau, who in his article says he’s a Christian, writes that preachers are obligated to utilize their pulpits even if it should involve the church telling its members to, among other things, kick Barisan Nasional out of Putrajaya.]

‘The pulpit, the pastor and politics‘ — Rama Ramanathan

(26 April 2012) “The question being debated [among Malaysian Christians] is, ‘Should those who step into the pulpits of churches and address millions in Malaysia every Sunday tell their audiences whom to vote for?’ Variations of the question include this: ‘Should Christians participate in Bersih 3.0’?”

[A churchgoer, Rama Ramanathan exhorted: “See you at Bersih 3.0”.]

Post-Bersih 3.0

• ‘Yes, Prime Minister, we need answers!‘ — Dr Hsu Dar Ren

(30 April 2012) “Or was the crackdown meant to punish the people, 99.9 per cent of whom were peaceful and harmless?”, said Dr Hsu who was formerly the Gerakan chief of Cheras. He quit the party after complaining: “I am sick of race-based politics”.

Dr Hsu commented how “many [people at Bersih 3.0] really showed their hatred”.

Several Penang BN leaders have alleged that chief minister Lim Guan Eng has been playing hate politics and fanning hatred among DAP followers. (Also read HERE)

• ‘The gov’t that fights civil society won’t last long‘ — Stephen Ng

“From the forum organised by Tindak Malaysia on ‘How clean will the 13th general election be?’ on Tuesday night, I can feel the pulse and the anger of the people. The people are simply angry with the BN administration, which has overstayed the hospitality of the Malaysian people for far too long.”

Who are hogging cyberspace?

In the ongoing postmortem, the general consensus has been that Saturday’s rally drew a bigger crowd than its predecessor Bersih 2.0 and could arguably have been the biggest street protest ever to have taken place in the country.

It can also be argued that 428 (April 28) is the demo which saw the Chinese taking part in unprecedented numbers.

Christian opposition supporters command the social networks, including chain mail and online chat forums. Therefore, they are the ones who are in control of the narratives, myth-making and shaping public perception in the virtual world, especially in English.

Anti-Lynas activist Wong Tack, the Himpunan Hijau chairman, complained about the police’s “ill-behaviour” towards the “peace-loving crowd”.

“A true Malaysian pastor” recounts his experience

• ‘Joy in seeing spirit of Bersih in so many

“It was so much easier to mobilise my church members to go. Many who regretted not taking part in Bersih 2.0 out of ‘fear’, managed to overcome the invisible fear barrier and made their physical presence felt.

“We were much better prepared physically, spiritually, emotionally and psychologically for Bersih 3.0 compared to 2.0. As a church we could openly pray about the situation and condition of our beloved nation and where it is heading.

“There was obviously more Chinese people present this time around. More young people were in attendance.”

• ‘A mum’s reasons for attending Bersih 3.0

“The (LRT) trains were just full of Malaysians, all of whom would have stories to tell, the out of towners were tired but still needed to take trains to their homes. It took us more than three hours to reach our homes, though we live in the suburbs of Subang Jaya …”

• ”I looked at the police and feared for my life‘ — Christina Foo

“What surprised me was that there were so very many Chinese there. For a long time we Chinese have been in a comfort zone and therefore have always seemed to take a back seat when it came to things like this. As such it was a pleasant surprise to see so many youngsters and many had their parents with them.”

Christian testimony

The Malaysian Insider is currently running a series called ‘My Bersih 3.0 story’ where its readers share their experiences. Most of the narrators thus far have been Christian.

• ‘Cowardice is the mother of cruelty’ — May Chee Chook Ying

“You must come to my church, St. Theresa, Malacca, to know what I mean. Our choir, lectors, commentators, cantors, etc are largely made up of youth. This is rare, to have youth so generous with their time for God. I believe when they showed up at Dataran Pahlawan [for Bersih 3.0’s state chapter], they did it with God in mind.”

• ‘Bersih 428: A personal perspective‘ — Dr Goh Chee Leong

“I met so many ex students, current students, colleagues, church friends, old school friends in the four hours we were there. I was particularly proud of our students and graduates for participating. It gives me hope for Malaysia’s future.”

“I saw whole churches with their pastors who had organised group outings for this. To me this is great.”

• ‘When will we stop being a police state?‘ — Rama Ramanathan

“We have now seen the videos of the police acting brutally. We’ve seen groups of men in blue kicking and punching lone individuals. These videos will never be shown in the mainstream media; these stories will never be told in the mainstream media.”

• ‘Bersih 3.0: Two visions for democracy?’ — Kevin Soo

“So for all of you who went peacefully and courageously, who didn’t throw the first stone (literally) and who turned the other cheek (figuratively): blessed are you peacemakers.”

The righteous speak up too

Motto of the self-righteous

‘Bersih 3.0: My side of the story’ — Adam Tan

“I will go again, if the purpose of the demonstration is right. Why? Because I care enough. Because this is my land. Because I want to make a difference. Because I am Malaysian. I believe some of you might disagree with what I shared. Good. Now go write your story.”

Witnessing the death of democracy — Shazuan Ali

“In the future, when my children ask, I would say, “Son, I was there fighting for your future and on that fateful day I witness the death of democracy in our country.”

• ‘The seed of hope‘ — Jun W.

“They [BN] have a huge war chest and they will do whatever to desperately cling onto power. We know but can’t blame the poor amongst us who sell their votes for a sack of rice.”

• ‘Liberation Day @ 428‘ — CL Tang

“Malaysians who missed the rally will learn the truth – of the bravery and courage of thousands of their fellow Malaysians who stood up to demand what should have been rightfully ours from the very start – free and fair elections.”

• ‘Dataran Merdeka: Who provoked the violence?‘ — Jackson Ng

“In a mass rally or gathering, everyone knows that it takes only a small spark to cause mayhem. And human nature, as well as animals, is such that defence is the only response to attack. So, let us analyse what happened at Bersih 3.0 before we fall into the propaganda trap of the evil BN government.”

[Adam, Shazuan and Jun’s articles appeared in The Malaysian Insider while CL Tang and Jackson Ng’s appeared in Malaysiakini.]

I’m not sure how you would read Jun’s assertion that there are those who sell our votes to BN cheaply but it may cross your mind that followers of Pakatan possess a superiority complex.

They appear convinced that while they themselves cast their vote righteously, anyone else who on the other hand gives his or her vote to BN must be corrupt, ignorant and immoral.

They also seem to think that those who attended the rally are brave, courageous and heroic whereas those who did not are presumably selfish cowards.

For them, Malaysia is conceived starkly in terms of black and white, good and evil. They feel quite sure that they are on side of light and right.

Hannah Yeoh’s Twitter buddy Gan Pei Ling is a reporter with Selangor Times. She is seen in the photo above receiving a mock cheque for her ‘journalism award‘ from Lim Guan Eng’s political secretary Ng Wei Aik.


I have no Faceook or Twitter.

80 thoughts on “Bersih 3.0: DAP, Christians, churches

  1. Helen, you forgot the very bizarre Bob Teoh piece telling Hishamuddin to quit. The second half was surreal…

    1. Thanks Iqraq. Yeah, I’d missed it initially.

      So you think it was surreal when Bob talked about how “In times like this, please remember we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil.”

      Okay, gottit. BN are not flesh and blood but the personification of Darkness and the spiritual forces of Evil. That’s why the Umno Menteri Besar of Perak was called “hitam metalik”, I guess.

      It can all make sense, you know. You just have to learn to piece the jigsaw puzzle and look at things through their DAP spectacles.

      1. I think religious activism is like consumer activism, feminist or labour movement etc etc etc. The purpose is to fight for more public space and attention, sometimes disproportionately to their actual size – which is very common in a democracy. We can call them pressure groups or advocacy groups or special interest groups, but they all serve their own purpose. I believe that is only normal.

        Our State does not tolerate the encroachment of religious authorities on its power and influence. Even Islam is a tool of the establishment, not vice versa. That is why BN has always kept the muftis on a very tight leash, to the extent of officially scripted Friday sermons. Those who yell that people power is the ultimate power forgot that in Malaysia, that only the Constitution reigns supreme. Look at how the Church in the Philippines affected EDSA revolutions and you will understand that while prayers can give more than spiritual enliftment, it also gave their representatives a strong clout in politics after (see the Bishops’ luxury and SUV cars scandal).

        If the most organized Catholic church is more careful, the same could not be said of the various Christian denominations in Malaysia. The Catholic church has a lot of history to learn from in their attempts to partake in the affairs of the princes from different countries. Others however, are only learning to flex their muscles, like the Buddhist groups, including internationally linked ones. I must reiterate that this is part of the democratic process, but it is going to be a very sobering learning experience on socio-political power, like how NGOs and other civil societies learn to manage their most vital commodity – non-partisan influence.

        I think Bersih is learning that lesson today.

        1. I hate N’Sync,

          You observe that “religious activism is like consumer activism, feminist or labour movement”.

          Let’s extrapolate: Consumer activists call tobacco companies evil, feminists call patriarchy oppressive, labour movements call big capital exploitative and church activists call BN the Dark Lord.

          Are the consumer activists, feminists and labour movements equally convinced and confident that their adversaries are destined for hell though?

          What be your views on how and where this added dimension will take the opposition (mostly DAP) churchgoers vis-a-vis non-Christian voters as well as the Malay-Muslim majority?

      2. I’ve just read Farish’s take and I think he was being unnecessarily diplomatic by pointing us to more important and larger things around us (and ahead). I think the recent events are important in many ways, and it is not entirely a generational struggle, or entirely a class struggle. Yes, there are more youths in the streets, and I concur that youth disenfranchisement is growing. The question we need to answer, including yours Helen, is where this will take us?

        Whether the crowd turn-out is 30,000 or 300,000, it is still short of the 500,000 targeted. I heard Bersih 4 is aiming for 1 million. I am not sure I understand why there is a need to aim for unrealistic figures. Is the reason why stadiums are rejected because it will make headcount estimates easier?

        You see Helen, Christians don’t make up the majority of those who march. And for those who did march, they surprise each other by their diversity. That is a plus point. Those who march for Bersih and Lynas will understand that people are not pigeon-holed by their race or gender or locality. That is what we are hearing from the testimonies right? Chinese Christians are expressing surprise that there are rural Malays who support Bersih and Lynas and anti-BN. Or Chinese women who are surprised by the politeness of Malay youths. These are all very very important personal stereotype breakers.

        Of course, some other stereotypes persist, like the rude Auntie who made heated exchanges with a reporter, or the the unruly protesters who hurled objects at the police and assaulted the police and reporters, and policemen who used excessive force. However, bear in mind, the force has a strong unspoken code, anytime you attack a policeman, expect a strong retaliation. I am not condoning police violence, but we must put all the events in sequence. As for the police planting agents in the midst, let me just say this outright, this is a normal practise. But it does not necessarily mean that they will instigate violence, that accusation requires some proof.

        A lot of people are trying to turn the Bersih 3 incident into a racial one, that the Chinese (Christian) are taking to the streets against Malay (Muslim) rights. I think that is incorrect. It is more accurately described as a generational and class conflict, an expression of dissatisfaction and anger towards elitist looting and flawed elections that tilt the balance in favour of the BN. I think that’s why the people are in the streets.

        Don’t you think that the heavy promotion of Bersih prior to 428 and now the grabbing of bragging rights in new media is also an ‘elitist’ (Bangsarian, Subang Jaya-ish) exercise? The Christian element is evident. Like Calvin pointed out, the Tamil papers have commented that Indian participation was negligible (in the ratio). — Helen

      3. I think political parties need to play and pander to the gallery to survive. Obama is also highlighting his role in delivering Osama with the looming US Presidential elections. Ini semua politikus ma, kena cari makan, and their battle is often in the realm of public perception, not facts.

        So while the masses are happily aping the lines given to them by their political saviours and spinmeisters, cognitive processes were suspended. We need both the supporters and detractors of Bersih, because it becomes evidently painful that there are a lot of dumb people out there.

  2. I watched the video on the press conference by PKR de facto leader Anwar Ibrahim where one Benji Lim interjected. Anwar was saying that those who went Dataran Merdeka wanted to SIT IN Dataran Merdeka and who are we to stop them? You see how this man, whom many Malays call him dajjal or anti-christ these days, was shifting the blame from HIM to the protesters? Yes, that’s what they want. Not me. It’s they who want to go there. From the beginning, That’s why they went to Dataran Merdeka. To sit in there. Hello, Mr Anwar, are you the organizer? I thought the organizer was one lady by the name of Ambiga and as far as I know, she told everyone to obey the court order. And what whas the court order? KEEP OUT of Dataran Merdeka. You have come. You have raised your concerns. Now disperse. And now Anwar is saying that that’s not what the protesters want. My goodness. Now I understand why more and more Malays are distrusting his words and call him Dajjal. Maybe his doomsdays are near. Dajjal the anti-christ appears when doomsdays are near. That’s what I heard from my Malay friends.

    1. Anwar is really a dajjal. I am confident bila dia mati, kubur takkan terima mayat dia. Kalau Saidina Ali masih hidup, Anwar akan dipancung serta merta. Wahai Anwar, sedarlah kamu ini pemusnah bangsa dan agama.

      1. We should not exalt him to anti god status..he is just too dumb to be the dajjal…a power lust sex pervert would suffice….

      2. kalau tak kerana ter paksa tanggung dosa dia, aku rasa dah lama dia dimampuskan.
        Maklum la ramai tak sanggup nak tanggung dosa dia yang [*** ditapis blog admin] le :)

  3. The silent majority has suffered enough and any more Bersih rally would break the camel’s back. Some would the law into their own hands to teach these Bersih madmen and madwomen. Pak Samad, (a writer I admire), why have you stooped so slow? You are a traitor to the Malay race, the country and Islam for supporting Bersih. But it’s not too late to repent and get back the respect you had lost. How can you make friends with fiends like Ambiga and that liwat rascal Anwar Ibrahim?

      1. I don’t think a misguided fool like you ought to speak for the silent majority.

  4. The cops show restraint beyond the call of duty. There wasn’t a single bullet fired even when their lives were on the line. They were still in the waja when the crowd smashed and overturned it. And the lady cop just took off and didn’t shoot.

    Ambiga lost control the moment the opposition decided to join Bersih. She and all the opposition leaders should be held accountable for what happened. You cannot control a mob that’s been incited to anger and hate.

    It’s hard to believe that Christians preach hate in their sermons, when it’s known for a fact that the bible tells them to “turn the other cheek”. Are they really Christians?

    Semoga kita dapat hidup aman di bumi bertuah ini

  5. here are words on the street
    80% of chinese will vote for DAP.
    80% of indians will vote for DAP
    30% of malays vote for PAS and PKR
    70% of malays will vote for BN
    assuming voters is about 13 million and the racial tone is 6:3:1 (malays,chinese,indians), bersih 2.0 have already achieved target.
    words on the street also said
    bersih 3.0 was a total failure and bad reps. now 70% of all race will vote for BN.
    Thanks Anwar and Ambiga. july 2007 to april 2012 – 5 years of fight gone to drain because you just won’t quit

  6. There are some interesting developments vis-a-vis BERSIH 2.0.

    1. The presence of many Chinese this time
    2. The large and loud presence of Christians and organized Christian groups
    3. Almost zero Indian presence, which many Tamil newspapers have highlighted

    1. It must be pointed out that the Chinese who attended are heavily biased. I think you can safely assume they are racist.

      Take a look at Auntie Bersih: You Tube

      See how rudely she responds to the reporter. Although we can’t see the reporter, her response in Malay can lead us to say the reporter is most likely Malay.

      Obviously she thinks that any Malay reporter is part of govt media. This is her bias. This behavior is common among many Chinese in Malaysia where they enter any interaction by confirming their preconceived notions of other people of other colors/cultures. In other words, they have a lot of ‘confirmation bias’ based on race or RACISM.

      The reporter clarifies he is part of the alternative media, but she shows disbelief.

      To me, it’s so clear that all the Chinese who attended the Bersih protest were all racist (either explicitly or implicitly).

      Also, I think that Auntie Bersih is senile. Racist seniles are the worst.

      1. Guys,

        I’m still trying to square the following contradiction.

        On the one hand, Dr Hsu Dar Ren claims: “99.9 per cent [Bersih 3.0 participants] of whom were peaceful and harmless”.

        And on the other hand, he admits that “many really showed their hatred” by booing the passing police trucks and giving them the thumbs down.

        See also:

        NST article where Tunku Aziz comments on the rally aftermath

        And Overseas Bumi should read this FMT article as well (in case he has the idea that it is only Chinese who harbour a particular mindset)

      2. how in the world is she racist? Are you truly stupid? She’s expressing what the average malaysian feels about the media..which people like you and Helen continue to perpetuate..

      3. ed, suggest you troll tru PR base media first, let see who perpetuate hate and their comments, and advice them first, hopefully without them calling you BN stooge

      4. >> To me, it’s so clear that all the Chinese who attended the Bersih protest were all racist (either explicitly or implicitly).

        wat a sweeping statement by you, basing yor views of 100000 peoplpe just on one person. it reminds me of the time when some fella commented in the internet that “I am not racist, but I hate these keling people”

        there were lots of malay, chinese, indian who were there at the rally. this worries those people who have an interest in dividing the races. thats why they have a hard time trying to racialise this

      5. Ed/Dave- Had auntie ‘alzheimer’ bersih met a media person of chinese ancestry, do you honestly think she would have shown such disdain?

        The problem with Ed/Dave and many many other Chinese is they don’t realize they’re racist. They are in denial.

        I know I am racist, therefore I try hard to counteract it and behave in a fair and civilised manner.

        As for the article Helen linked to, I read it and I am not impressed. i feel it is biased. Liberals and anarchist always have something against police action. Police all around world take similar action against protest. Take a look at the May Day protests today. Western police are BRUTAL. See youtube videos of US police vs occupy wallstreet movement and UK police action against student protest.

        MALAYSIAN POLICE are following the same tactics as western police. It shows we are at least on par and as professional as them.

        I am pretty sure that the Police probably will vote 100% for BN.

        Last bit– I met a Chinese Malaysian overseas who now HATES the Opposition! She said she can’t wait to vote. She thinks the Opposition has put Malaysia in a bad light. The Bersih street violence were on the front pages of many mid-east countries.

        But I don’t know if I can trust her. ok, that’s my racism showing.

        The article I linked to would typically elicit a Pavlovian response from the DAPsters who loved it even tho’ you rate it as biased. DAPsters have successfully occupied English-language cyberspace so much so that contrary opinions cannot appear without the messenger getting shot and riddled with bullet holes. — Helen

      6. Overseas Bumi, tell me if the cops at the labour day protests kicked and punched reporters and passers by…

        btw, there was a rally in kl yesterday. again. this time about 800-1000 people for labour day. march from central market to maybank building. im glad this time there was restrain from both side

  7. Calvin,

    Interesting facts. Another interesting fact that many overlook is who is the real loser here. Among malays, the sore loser is PAS.

    Thanks to technology, PAS members disgusting behaviours are all for see. Malays are asking what spell did Ambiga put on PAS that it “OBEYED” Ambiga as if Ambiga is Nabi Muhammad SAW.

    Do not be misled that majority of malays support PAS or anwar. Maybe 50000 are on the streets literally jumping on polices. But the vast majority do not support Anwar or PAS. In fact, they hate especially anwar.

    “Kenapa la tak pancung saja Anwar ni”.

    “Kalau dizaman Sultan Melaka, dah lama Anwar dengan Ambiga kena sula”.

    “Mungkin elok kita berdoa Anwar mampos”.

    The above comments are manifastation of anger in Malay community. And we are equally angry at Hishamuddin for being “lembik’.


    By the way, that was uttered by a police friend of mine.

  8. Hussin rahman,

    Yes sir. You are right. Anwar is really “dajal”. I never use this word on any human before. But you said it bluntly.

    You are right.

  9. Helen, listen to this [YouTube]….one pure anglophile american called these church going douche bags the same as animals..LOL

    1. these church going DAPSTERS should really get their head out of their asses..hahahahah…the same with the ayatollah wannabes

  10. Here’s my take. Most of all us based our prediction of the outcome of the GE13 based on who will vote for whom. But the way I look at it, the outcome of the GE13 could well be determined by those not voting on election day.

  11. You people Chinese now want to demo (for “unclear mission”).. Say now Malay people demo at Petaling strait or Penang downtown.. Eventhough Guan Eng oppose (but he need back the “brutal” police to support him). Then the Malay get angered then you will see how your business ruin. We Malay just need to block the Penang bridge… then you see the catastrope coming in… I am 45 years now living in KL since kid… I DONT KNOW which part of BN rules has DAMAGED my life, my family or my late father generation. We all live happily and so do you.. Only POLITICIANS make the mess. But with single wrongstep.. the Chinese may lost business…Not the police patrol car damage BUT the factory burn, the shop damaged.. and so on like May 13…. The history now to begin..

    1. Dear Dato Zek,

      Saya rasa ramai juga orang Melayu yang keluar Dato’. Janganlah cuba diperlaga-laga sesama kita dengan tuduhan secara melulu.

      Dato mungkin tak rasa hidup orang lain yang tak berpangkat dan berdarjat. Let them eat cake, Dato?

  12. Dear Helen, let me go off topic for the moment. Me the Cina apek dish washing type in New York recently visited Malaysia without the fear of being deported either in USA or M’SIA.

    I took a cab from Sunway Mentari to SS4 with another typical Cina friend of mine. The cabbie whom both of us engaged and spoke in Malay because he appeared Malay was actually Cina from Terengganu that I found out later when I started asking him about his family and his well being of being a cabbie.

    He told me his wife was Cina, I was taken aback, then he told me he is also Cina although he looks like a Melayu with such fluency in Malay. He further reiterated that he did not care whether it was BN/PR but how it makes things better for him as a Malaysian. Imagine, on appearance, we can be fooled, yet both BN/PR is busy maintaining a status quo with the public who is better. Seriously does it really matter if humanity is a cause we need to heed when we can decide what to do so amongst us.

    Now on BERSIH, Helen appears to be be the only sole voice with fact and substantiated analysis how and why whole agenda is run. Many commentors come aboard with a tit for tat approach for their own affliances but not one that is involves rational thinking.

    BERSIH is not so BERSIH anymore as it is tainted with political motives. The inability of BERSIH to stay free of politics is their deficiency and nothing but a tool like like PERKASA, AMANAH, INDRAF and many other NGO’s that have mushroomed since the HINDRAF heydays.

    So my question is this, besides the bickering of politics of the day on who is better, is there any hope amongst us to recognize humanity amongst us for one another without fear of favor irrespective of our origin or our beliefs even if that sacrifice is needed on our individual part for our fellow Malaysians minus politics, affiance but only on a basis of humanity.

    The current idiocracy agenda currently run by DAP which is probably propelled by the entrenchment of the BN government can and should be obviated if we individually do not lose hope in humanity. Humanity is a ocean, a few drop of DAP & BN agenda in our humane ocean does not make the ocean dirty. Screw the politicians whether it is BN/ PR, enhance humanity amongst us irrespective of our origin.

    1. miny, what is the diff btw bersih n hindraf by looking at the end result as of today? bersih (crowd) still relatively apolitical and the number of participant is getting bigger, what happen to hindraf, where is their humanity that u uphold? r they not talking politic today? show me a political party in the world that are not political but talk humanity?

      1. Hua Yong, talking about size, it is still about 0.2 % of the population.

        Do you allow 0.2 % of share holder to decide the fate of the rest, what’s your logic?

        As for “relatively apolitical and the number of participants”, i think it’s crap. cheers

        IF the majority vote is not in tune with the minority (political minority), it will be called “tyranny of the majority”. screw this line of argument.

        there is no satisfying the loud minority, so screw them. if you feel you are apart of the minority, well to bad. Make the best of rstay or leave, that my suggestion

      2. ktp, who is talking population size? have you not been paying any attention whatsoever? I am talking about bersih versus hindraf, i know u r slow but could never imagine comprehension incapacity is another trademark of yours, should reassess from now onwards whether your comment are similar to those that is too stupid to merit any response. you can screw whatever you wish and that is your freedom, and ur last para show you true colour my fren, be urself like most that comment here in helen blog, at least there r consistant n earn my respect, u? pity.

      3. Hua yong, this the long version for you

        “your comment are similar to those that is too stupid to merit any response.”

        Actually it shows your pompous ,arrogant view of the other ‘ not so smart’ bloggers, a very similar attitude of your idol the Dapster chief LGE.

        Yes i may have jump the gun on the topic.

        As for your following statement

        “what is the diff btw bersih n hindraf by looking at the end result as of today? bersih (crowd) still relatively apolitical and the number of participant is getting bigger”

        Your argument that ‘Bersih is relatively apolitical’ is joke. And justifing that statement, with its increase in size also hold no water. MYNC is correct tht bersih is just a political tool, just like a condom(hemm… is never know of any one using the same used condom three times).

        So bersih represent the view of a minority ( political Minority).

        Mister PHD in english , law degree or journalism. i knew you are going for the Dapster path of minority’s racial brow beating,something along the jew’s anti sematic hate line.

        Like I said, the ‘political minority’, you myopic closet racist. no where did i ask any minority race to leave, i said political minority.

        As i suggested if they, the’ political minority’ cannot live with the voting results or cannot accept it and want to perpetuate this demonstration culture, then they should consider leaving .

        As for you i suggest i think there is always an opening for a pompous english speaker in singapore, if you are not already there. :)

        I know my reply do not merit your pompousness, ahhh my loss.

        P.s. sori for my bad spelling and grammer if it gives you a brain tumor while reading tis.

        For other reader ignore this health warning, valid only for smart alecs like HUA Yong.

      4. y u need a longer version when u just go around in circles, like a dog chasing his tail, fun to watch, I suppose? is that the common habit of the ‘not so smart’ type, not sure if u r one tho, often choose to talk about dap and lge in the hope to make his/her comment look hmmm…. carrying some weight? btw, my reply is in no way an indication that your comment merit response, I just love watching dog chasing his tail.

        and listen please, how many times I have to repeat that my comparison is between bersih n hindraf, n fyi i am writing to one hindraf aficionado,do you seriously have attention deficit? so how many times do you have to rehash the same point and get shot down in the same way before the lightbulb starts to flicker in your head?

        finally glad to tell u that i am okay with reflexive utterances, call me myopic if u like, I prefer to keep my comment short unless lots of explanation to do, unlike u, i dont have any.

      5. Dear Hua Yong,

        HINDRAF did not start as a political party nor it is a political party, in fact it gave the opposition a blank check on the run to GE12 even when their leaders were offered to stand in the election.

        Why do you think both BN/PR have such difficulty to deal with HINDRAF? It is because it is a survival (bread & butter & socio-economic development) issue based movement not a political positioning.

        BERSIH did start well back in 2007 with their electoral reforms (not bread & butter) but now it has become a tool for PR. As you say the crowd is apolitical and getting larger but what is the direction? Is it a political positioning or hell bent like HINDRAF is.

      6. MiNY, no NGO live in a vacuum and we have to face the reality what cause the direction they are leading into. My point is that, i can debunk Hindraf in the exact way you debunk Bersih, would that not make you and me just a clown and nothing else?

    2. “BERSIH is not so BERSIH anymore as it is tainted with political motives. The inability of BERSIH to stay free of politics is their deficiency and nothing but a tool like like PERKASA, AMANAH, INDRAF and many other NGO’s that have mushroomed since the HINDRAF heydays.”

      Myin NY from the above statement are you by any chance , a hindraf aficionado. ?

      If you are following the sword fighting session between Me and Hua Yong below you will understand .

      a simple yes or no will be fine, Thanks

      1. Dear koteypanjang, I am a humane aficionado and on that premises you can say that I am a HINDRAF aficionado as the issues like statelesness, police custody death, temple demolition, education, business opportunity etc faced by the MAJORITY segment of this community is totally inhumane. BERSIH started well back in Aug 2007 but along the way today, it has become a PR political tool.

    3. “BERSIH is not so BERSIH anymore as it is tainted with political motives. The inability of BERSIH to stay free of politics is their deficiency and nothing but a tool like like PERKASA, AMANAH, INDRAF and many other NGO’s that have mushroomed since the HINDRAF heydays.”

      Myin NY from the above statement are you by any chance , a hindraf aficionado. ?

      If you are following the sword fighting session between Me and Hua Yong below you will understand .

      a simple yes or no will be fine, Thanks
      helen sori for double posting, first one wrong location

  13. My fellow Christian friends, the path to righteousness does not lead to self-righteousness, where you believe that you and only you are right, pure, true, uncorrupted etc. just by thinking that, you have failed already on your path to righteousness. So, simmer down on this holier than thou attitude la, we already got it in spades from PAS…now, you pulak nak join? What next? From the pulpit, you are going to say that those who are not with you, are un-christian and would burn in hell? Don’t let your religion be hijacked by politicians disguised as pastors and priests. Learn from what has happened to the malay muslims via PAS…

    1. Melonhead, you have dictated well, must be a a truly humane character.

    2. by reading ur comment, one point clear to me is that ur fellow christian were mostly stupid n cant think for themselves, no wonder some choose nick like melonhead.

    3. I am a Muslim, but i personally, I do not think cutting hands or feet is good for the soul ,thats why I dont vote PAS..heck..past Malay sultanates who were islamic in nature never cut hands or feet but they did drive big sharp sticks into assholes(literally) of pengkhianat like Babiga and Anwar…what matters for simple malay like me is that the government of the day can provide jobs, good homes to people and essential services and opprunities to climb up socal ladder…not ape whatever the West do or become religious extremists…we can see European Union and US failing economically and socially while Iran and its Arab Muslim neighbour languish in a cesspool of stagnancy…malaysia..despite being ruled by corrupt UMNO and its multracial partners fared relatively better compared to the hallowed Christian West and Muslim Arab countries…we should not be either of them.

  14. Helen, mereka ni semua bukan pen’demo’ tapi PERUSUH. There’s totally no peace demo. They showed chaos and terrorism. I’m sick of all this but have to bear it. This is by the way, OUR country. And felt little (a LOT) embarrassed. Lagi malu apabila mereka mengatakan mereka dikira syahid jika tewas semasa ‘demo aman’. Can you believe this? Not only Christian, Islam also being used.

    ‘Tewas’ as in ‘rebah’? Is indelible ink and 21-day campaign period something they think they have to die for? — Helen

  15. Forrestcat, Who the F***k cares if you are Muslim. I am more concern about Malaysian irrespective of origin. Can we be Malaysians if it is the right thingy to do do as I am sure no religion is above humanity if it warrants it unless you think you based on your religion is better than what humanity seeks for Malaysians. If so,go F***k yourself and run your own agenda how Muslim, Hindu Buddhist, Christian you are besides being what is humane for one another.

    1. Hello apek of the dish washing type…being malay muslim, chinese buddhist and hindu indians is true to being our own self rather than you preaching malaysian identity as one and asking us to become anglophhile american slave liekeyou are…care to tell me what is malaysian?….being anglohile like you or become ayatolllah…so let me ay this Fxxk you you moronic dish washing apek…you are truly an apek anglophile.lost to its rot..with your chinese looking like malays taxi driver story..the fact you hurl obscenity shows your asumed superiority over the malaysians that live here..muslims,buddhists and hindus..who are true to their roots….christians and anglophilrs in new york are not welcome ad toyou..being malay malaysia,chinese malaysian and indan malaysian is to be fxxked at…sedar sendiri la woi pendatang ke new york,kamu tu penyangak.

      1. Gotcha!!!, you see it is so easy to rile up Malaysians because we are so sure of ourselves in the cyber blog. Just for fun, couldn’t I be an atheist as oppose to an western nurtured Anglophile as you presume.

    2. Helen, i dunno what this guys is rambling like an idiot about…seems he dont like seeing muslis,buddhist or hindus,..he want us to be fake like the americans i guess…

    3. Why should MiNY care about ‘Malaysians’ only? Why not care for ALL HUMANS?? Go back to the kitchen la and wash those dishes. Hypocrite.

      1. OB, caring comes with responsibility. I am doing the caring by making sure the dishes are clean in NY for my boss’s restaurant as to his responsibility to his customers.The concern for Malaysians per se on the basis of humanity seems to have a select and pick process accordingly to how the politics is played as we can observe by the comments itself. For someone who cannot resist gloating about your globe trotting experience, you definitely lack the international common sense.

      2. OB, just dapat ilham. You the semua tahu and semua boleh Melayu, crip and cry whenever Ketuanan Melayu is challenged need a lesson on humanity. I can understand your position in 1950’s but now today in the present time, do you think it is still valid when it is not a matter of Melayu but just Malaysians. Your Ketuanan Melayu has only created a monster with the likeness of the UMNO elites not an uplifted Melayu community. I think the Non-Malays have done more for the benefits of the Melayu than the Melayu itself. Me like you can be enhanced wherever we are whether I am a dishwasher or you the intellect but the only thing that twines between us is Malaysian. So how does it matter if you know better or I know it better unless we can coexist with such inhumane policies that can enhance Malaysians per se irrespective of our origin.I am proud to be a Malaysian as the ethnicity plays no further role amongst fellow Malaysians.Sure I empathize with the minority and their needs as Malaysian, but to accept a hapless argument for pseudo agenda and nonchalant attitude like you shows who is the true hypocrite.

  16. Dear Helen,

    Thanks for the forum for the sane Malaysians to exchange. I will definitely try hard to be home and vote to ensure the likes of those leaders in the Streets on Sunday will not make it to Putrajaya.

    I too want to see clean election and better governance, but I am not going to destroy the Malaysia we have now. It is not perfect, we can work to improve the Government and the System, but you don’t burn it to the ground!

    In KL I live in Bangsar and I am tired of MP Nurulizzah. Bangsar ia worse off than when she took over from Shahrizat. And I would love to see the Menteri Dalam Negeri changed too!

    I want to see a strong and responsible alternative to BN but unfortunately, PR in the form of LGE, Nik Aziz and Anwar Ibrahim do not make the cut.

    1. Agreed! We can either destroy what we have built for the illusion of something better (which from the looks of Selangor, Penang, Kedah and Kelantan are not), or we can work with what we have and improve on the current system…weed out those that are bad and rotten. For this, we need an opposition that works, not like the ones that we have now…

      And my moniker “Melonhead” reflects my physically big head la Hua Yong…so, tak perlu la insult insult, ok?

      1. u meant big head but small …… ok la, my apology, i think u r insulting the christian, if i am wrong, then my bad.

      2. So evident
        Opposition now looks like saboteurs for their personal gain, not as a balancing force to fight for rakyat.

        Willing to sacrifice limbs and lives just for personal ambition
        Willing to use wide-eyed students and gamble their future.


  17. Look careful at the video. This not Anwar on the lorry (i bet my virgin anus on this), it was never anwar. it that guy from the chinadoll sexcapade la. you all blind ka?

    BN paid him to pretend to be anwar again. The real Anwar was never at Bersih.
    Now they even got Azmin lookalike there too.

    This the real truth, the only truth, so help me god

    1. Yes, Mr Koteypanjang. I think you have a point. The True One was never at the Bersih demo. It was his look-alike. It was Judas Iscariot. Or it could be the Mahdi Ghaib, the Mahdi proclaimed by one of his closest disciples, Badrol Amin, who, after announcing the imminent coming of the Mahdi, got himself into trouble, in a case similar to the Mahdi Ghaib. Yes, The True One was never there. He was somewhere, he was everywhere, and that’s why everyone could see his pointing-finger signal and make a dash for the garden of Eden, the Dataran Merdeka.

  18. Dear HuaYong,
    I am not debunking BERSIH, but rather questioning on how the goal post has shifted for a political positioning. Many have debunked HINDRAF, yet it prevails as it is not a political will but rather what is humane, if you take the trouble to look at their demands. You are right no NGO lives in a vacuum, but so is humanity for another until and when I am, individually per se ready, able and willing to accept it for the mass if you can digest the message.

  19. MiNY, I was from a small town closed to Socfin Plantation. I didn’t grow up with English speaking Indian class whose family was from civil servant, lawyer and doctor. Most of my classmates were from the estate 10 km away and they travel either by truck, or foot, and I think this is the reason why they often conquered the top 10 placing during cross country. Most didn’t complete form 3, or can’t afford to continue even if they pass form 3, and commit suicide among the ladies are common. There is no more Socfin since many years back so where are this Indian end up? Many of the gangsters that active at northern part of Klang Valley are from my small town, I sincerely believe I share your urge of humanity, but I think to indulge and grapple via racial approach (might not be the case but that is the general impression) don’t really help, and frankly, I don’t have the answer. Just my opinion.

    PS/ I asked Muniandy, my classmate, how he goes back home if require to stay back, walk, he said, 1 to 2 hours walk.

  20. You pick and choose and choose to see the links that are not there. There are many Muslims who say the same thing. Will you dare accuse the same thing of the Muslims? You choose to attack Christians because you know they won’t retaliate.

  21. Helen, I am a Christian and I want to sincerely apolgise to you and everyone who is hurt or offended by the actions of the Christians. I believed they have erred in the new found voice and power. As a mere pilgrim on earth, I believe my Christian duty is to be a peacemaker and not even a peacelover.

    My since apologies again.

    Thank you. — Helen

    1. Helen is not anti-Christians. She is just highlighting the tendencies of the Christian zealots in DAP to turn the party into a crusader’s mission against anyone deemed as the devil’s path.

      These zealots are like the neo-cons of the Bush era, chopping you down as quickly as you try to say something at them, and they call this practices of democracy a la DAP-style.

      You see Nga and Ngeh Christian zealots behaviour in Perak, you know what it means. They have no respect for women. Hee Yit Fong is a fine example. The other is Fong Poh Kuan. They were the reason she wanted to quit politics in GE12. Now they want her out for GE13 and sent her to Johor to be with her husband.

      You see, Buku Jingga is fast becoming DAP and Pakatan’s gospel of truth. It is theologically correct and if you say something against it, be prepared to face the Inquisition.

      Thank goodness we still have Yap EH to come out and tell that not all Christians are like the DAP zealots.

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