Ahli politik PAS dan ahli politik Umno kedua-duanya bertudung dan berbaju kurung.
Ahli politik Umno dan ahli politik PAS kedua-duanya bersongkok dan berbaju Melayu.
Bekas ahli politik MCA dan ahli politik DAP sekarang keempat-empatnya nampak sihat sekali.
Ini sekadar gambar hiasan, gadis-gadis cilik Cina dan molek Melayu. Ada persamaan (lihat juga gambar leng chai bawah), ada perbezaan.
Zairil Khir Johari, yang juga CEO Penang Institute iaitu ‘think tank’ parti DAP, sering diketengahkan di pentas Melayu DAP.
Di forum ‘Wacana Islam Melayu DAP’ yang diadakan di Shah Alam pada minggu lepas, Zairil berkata dalam ucapannya bahawa para pemimpin Cina DAP masa kini tidak seperti para pemimpin Cina DAP zaman dahulu.
Mengikut kata Zairil, para pemimpin Cina DAP hari ini sudah begitu KeIslaman dan keMelayuan, dan [perubahan Jom Ubah! ini mendorong] mereka selalu sahaja menghadiri acara buka puasa serta menggunakan bahasa Melayu di ceramah-ceramah mereka.
Tanggapan Dear Leader Kim sebagai seorang anti-Melayu adalah prasangka buruk yang jauh menyimpang, kata Zairil dalam satu kenyataan akhbar bertajuk ‘MCA’s attempt to paint Guan Eng as a political opportunist and a racist is not only inexplicable but also irresponsible’.
Kenyataan akhbar tersebut cuma dalam bahasa Inggeris sahaja (lihat senarai kenyataan-kenyataan akhbar DAP untuk bulan April, screenshot).
Cadangan terbaru untuk mengadakan muzakarah membincangkan perpaduan Melayu ditimbulkan bukannya oleh Umno tetapi oleh Mursyidul Am PAS Tuan Guru Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat serta diiyakan oleh Tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang.
Daripada dua parti lawan PAS dan Umno bermuzakarah baik dua parti kawan PAS dan DAP bermuzakarah. Lagipun sekarang DAP ramai ahli-ahli Melayu-Islam.
Zairil patut dilantik juga untuk mengiringi rombongan DAP – yang pastinya diketuai Khalifah Umar Abdul Aziz Lim – untuk bermuzakarah dengan ustaz-ustaz PAS serta ahli-ahli Dewan Ulama dan Dewan Syura.
‘Jadikan isu ini sebagai topik persamaan bagi permulaan proses muzakarah’ — baca Din Turtle sini.
‘Bleak future for mother-tongue education under Pakatan Rakyat’ — kenyataan akhbar hari ini oleh Chong Sin Woon, pengerusi biro pendidikan Pemuda MCA
This blog’s vernacular school (VS) series:
Vernacular School: Learning Tamil
VS: What do the Chinese want, really?
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Recommended: The ‘size of balls’ no joke with MCA
Helen Ang 
Reblogged this on KIYAIjr_@com.
“kenyataan akhbar hari ini oleh Chong Sin Woon, pengerusi biro pendidikan Pemuda MCA”
– the land issue by ssg were rebutted many times, mca still sleeping?
– mca haven’t rationalise the reason to recognise degree from university in china but not the uec cert from cis ie the qualification to enroll into university in china. ironic isn’t it?
– if uec not recognised by public university, so ptptn is mainly given to those that enroll into private university, the cari makan university?
mca ia pathetic on issue related to vs, i think they shd talk less, and buat tak tahu is a better strategy.
”mca ia pathetic on issue related to vs, i think they shd talk less, and buat tak tahu is a better strategy.” This probably apply best to you, Hua Yong. You only need MCA to fulfil your personal needs and at the same time, you humiliated them without any facts and truths. You are the typical Ultra Kiasu fanatics from DAP.
Sis Helen…siapakah zairil? adakah dia berdarah melayu? Pasti ramai yang bertanggapan sebegitu, sila buat sedikit kajian latar belakang beliau. Ramai juga beranggapan beliau dari hasil perkahwinan campur melayu & cina..maksudnya ada DARAH melayu…you will surprise!!
Zairil is not Malay. His mother married Khir Johari when the boy was 16. In other words, Zairil is the stepson of the late Khir Johari. To put it clearly, Zairil is a phony Malay, he has neither Malay blood on his mother’s side nor his father’s side. A 100% phony. A fraud.
Dia sudah ‘potong,’ so in DAPster book he is malay la. OOPS MUST CHECK THAT ‘ONE’ LA.
what I find interesting is that the more the MCA fights for Chinese education or any other issues dear to the Chinese community, the more the Chinese votes migrate to the DAP. But then again, this is a strategy of the Chinese electorate. The more the MCA gives in to their “demand” and “aspirations”, the more they support the DAP. Well, this could be the way they say to MCA “you’re not doing enough for us, so we’re not going to switch our support to you. Do more and we might reconsider. Until then, we will stick with the DAP. But this strategy could backfire really. There is only that much that the MCA can do for the Chinese community. At some point, the MCA could well conclude that it is not worth it, They say among themselves “we’ve done as much as we could, still we are still in this predicament.
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Agree. MCA got the China degrees recognized & is working on getting recognition for UEC. But all the thanks they get from HuaYong is “mca is pathetic on issue related to vs, i think they shd talk less” & “mca still sleeping”. What has DAP ever done for VS? — Helen
Well Helen, the divide and rule strategy is viable if there are 2 or 3 sides contesting to win your support. What happens when only 1 side is left in the contest ?
When the MCA is no more or when the MCA has had enough of all this shenanigans, they’ll just quit and tell the Chinese electorate “since you support the DAP so much, ask them for help. We are exhausted. There is nothing that we can do for you anymore”.
The greatest threat to vernacular schools is not whether the Government of the day (either BN or PR) is going to abolish them. The greatest threat lies in efforts made by the Government of the day to alter the character of vernacular schools/education.
I’ll give you an example. If for instance, a Chinese or Indian school has 300 students, of which 100 of them are Christians. The parents of these Christians students make a request to the school, saying that they would like the school to provide for a chapel for the students. If the school authority says no, what happens next ?
Well for starters, these parents could turn to the Government of the day (BN or PR) and say : the school does not allow us to have a chapel for our children and so we would like you to help us to persuade the school’s authority to allow us to have a chapel for our children”. If the Government of the day says “we will help you” and goes to tell the school’s authority to allow for the a chapel to be built for the students and if you refused, we’ll reduce funding assistance, then what ? What are you going to do ?
Well, if you need government money to get by, you will eventually allow such a thing as having a chapel for Christian students to happen even reluctantly. As I understand, well to be honest, my understanding of vernacular school is limited, vernacular schools, to be precise, Chinese Schools are secular in nature.
So when you introduce religion into a secular institution, what will happen next ? Helen, could you please enlighten me and fellow readers of what will happen when you introduce religion into a secular institution ?
AI,
It depends on the Chinese parents themselves whose kids are in VS. e.g. HuaYong commented:
HY’s remark was made wrt to my posting ‘Sebab Cina dan India menolak sekolah kebangsaan‘ where I’d suggested that one of the reasons Chinese parents are wary of SK is b’cos national schools have become too ‘Islamic’ (with baca doa in class, korban in the school compound, etc) or in your words, “non-secular”.
From HY’s response above, I’ll deduce that he might raise no objections if SRJK (C) were to acquire some Christian features if that is the will of the majority, i.e. his son’s classmates and their Christian parents.
HY also acknowledges the trend today that “There are more than 50 million Christian in China” and as such he is aware of the same development taking place among Malaysian Chinese, especially DAPsters.
It’s none of our business what religion urban Chinese nowadays choose to convert to in droves as faith is their own private affair & constitutional right.
Your Q. (this needs to be restated to save ourselves from arguing unnecessarily off-topic) is what happens when the same evangelical Christianity that we see now played in the DAPster arena is carried into Chinese schools — a new future development.
Helen et al,
“MCA got the China degrees recognized & is working on getting recognition for UEC.”
No one will take it seriously that MCA has a role to recognized degree from China university, when they are still WORKING ON getting recognition for UEC. The Chinese Community not that sure what DAP can or cannot do, but they seem to be very certain what MCA can’t do though they do have representative in the cabinet (MCA word).
In your kenyataan akhbar link, MCA assert that “MCA on the other hand, through our representatives in the Cabinet and in various other positions in the BN federal government, has shown our commitment to the development of vernacular schools and mother-tongue education.”
HY “i think they shd talk less, and buat tak tahu is a better strategy.”
AI “At some point, the MCA could well conclude that it is not worth it,”
Are HY and AI not more or less in the same line of reasoning?
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HY,
Deputy Higher Education Minister Hou Kok Chung announced M’sia has recognized degrees from 146 institutions in China (Star, March 2012). Our students had gotten into those China colleges/unis using their local UEC (= O-Levels) qualification.
We have to ask AI himself for clarification: Q. Do you think that Najib, looking at Chinese behaviour (e.g. like when he was heckled in London recently) — “At some point, Umno could well conclude that it is not worth it” to appease Chinese requests like recognizing UEC, solving teacher shortage etc?
Helen
helen, uec is a-level equivalent. so no remove class + one year less compare to stpm = 2 years. worldwide recognition except malaysia, but most parents are aware when decision made wrt which school to attend, just that the recognition of china degree raise more question than answer. it doesn’t boost mca but instead make them look like clown.
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UEC comes in the 6th year of secondary education, which if we place in parallel to the M’sian system (SPM 5th year of secondary, STPM 7th year) leaves it straddling the middle. Why are you looking a gift horse in the mouth? MCA got the China recognition but you say this move “make them look like clown”. — Helen
On the other hand, if the Chinese community wants to know what will happen when their vernacular schools are exposed to religion, just take a look at our national schools. I m really sad with the reality of our national schools today. When Moses the Raven/Crow preached the Heavens to our national school students viola ! such is the state of our national schools. Even Malays have started to turn to private education to keep the children from the clutches of these Moses the Raven/Crow “promise the Heaven” loonies and spinners.
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Musa Hitam as Educ Minister (1978–1981)? Can you pls elaborate? — Helen
Well Helen, What I meant was, when you insert religion into schools, you create divisions within the schooling environment, when that happens tensions occur, a sense of unease when certain parties are too aggressive in promoting their agenda. And those Moses the Raven types as exemplified in Animal Farm, they distract people from questioning as to what actually is happening in the real world by promising a “wonder world” that is beyond the grasp of the ordinary people. After all, young minds are impressionable.
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Are there many Malays who think as secularly as you? — Helen
What I think, the way I see it, is this. Religion is important. But when something as secular as education gets all tangled up with religion, you’re going to get a mess. Religion is a guide, a way of life as Islam mentioned, but we also need secular education to get on with making a living.
Are there secular Malays ? Yes Helen, but our numbers are not that great, most of us live in urban areas and most of us are not willing to speak up. Since that is the case, we do what we can, send the kids to private education but we also provide adequate religious education to the kids. After all, there has to be some form of balance. I m single and I intend to do the same thing in the future when I get married.
Pengertian sekular bermaksud dunia, alam atau reality. Dalam bahasa Latin ianya “ saeculum” yang bererti “alam”. Interpretasi fahaman sekular ialah pemisahan agama(gereja) dari urusan kemasyarakatan dan juga politik. Terkandung dalam fahaman tersebut ialah pembersihan dogma ketuhanan gereja katolik dan pemurnian diri dari perkara-perkara yang bersifat rasional. Ini adalah fahaman sekular pada period pertama yang dibicarakan oleh filosof Barat.
Pada tahap kedua, fahaman sekular bukan saja sekadar fahaman pada period pertama tetapi lebih jauh dari itu iaitu untuk menguburkan agama serta menghilangkan peranannya dalam tatacara kehidupan manusia. Dengan perkatan lain, kaum sekular berhasrat menghapuskan agama secara total di muka bumi ini.
Manakala dalam Islam pula, ilmu terbahagi kepada dua iaitu fardhu Ain dan fardu Kifayah. Terpenting dalam subjek fardhu Ain yang mesti dipelajari sebagai seorang muslim iaitu mengenal tuhannya. Makrifatullah. Kemudian memenuhi tuntutan Rukun Islam dan Rukun Iman. Manakala subjek fardu Kifayah seperti kejuruteraan, perubatan, ekonomi dan perniagaan, kewangan dan perakaunan serta lain-lain displin yang berlambak di pasaran pusat pengajian sekarang ini hendaklah dimiliki ilmunya oleh setiap individu muslim dalam kelompoknya, jika tidak semuanya akan menanggung dosa.
Apa yang sangat penting dalam mengejar ilmu fardhu Kifayah ini ialah setiap individu muslim mestilah membesarkan tuhanNYA dalam apa jua bentuk dan cara mahupun pemikiran, tuturkata dan perbuatannya. Tidak ada pemisahan dalam apa juga subjek yang dipelajarinya dari membesarkan tuhanNYA. Jika perkara ini tidak berlaku bermakna benih-benih sekular telah tersemai dalam jiwa penuntut ilmu tersebut.
“Dan katakanlah: Segala puji bagi ALLAH yang tidak mempunyai anak dan tidak mempunyai sekutu dalam kerajaanNYA dan tidak mempunyai penolong(untukmenjagaNYA) dari kehinaan dan agungkanlah DIA dengan pengagungan yang sebesar-besarnya.” – (Al Isra :111)
Watak pemikiran sekular menurut Muhammad Imarah adalah seperti berikut : –
1.Menyamakan nash-nash Islam dengan karya manusia.
2.Agama adalah persoalan peribadi yang tiada berkaitan dengan persoalan kemasyarakatan, politik dan ekonomi.
3.Adanya pertentangan antara konsep agama dengan ilmu pengatahuan dan teknologi.
4.Adanya pandangan dan pendapat yang mengatakan Barat adalah satu-satunya alternatif penyelesaian untuk mencapai kemajuan dan kemodenan.
Sebab apa ahli politik dan pemikir Islam menentang sekular..? Kerana ianya dapat dilihat adanya keupayaan menjauhkan nilai-nilai agama dari kehidupan.
Fahaman saudara tentang sekularisme penuh dengan prejudis dan prasangka buruk. Apa bezanya muda dengan taliban? Panjang lebar persuratan saudara tentang sekularisme, tetapi setakat konsep pengasingan antara kerajaan dan institusi keagamaan itu pun disalaherti…
Of course there are Helen. UMNO is a secular Malay nationalist party! hehehe… PAS is the theocratic Malay party
We dance, rock, mix, shake hands males and females, make women judges, appoint them Gov Bank Negara, SC, dont wear tudung like them, go dating, watch movies together, sleep together if possible. or even agnostic Malay like AI pay for sex.. sodomise men on the quiet etc.
Even socialists like A Samad, Kassim Ahmad. Why do you think Trengganu is run by UMNO? PAS is a no fun party and Malays love fun, gossip funfair, sure heboh all secular activities.
Musa Hitam married Peruvian, posed with women golfers something that Hadi wont do… The simple things that make Malays secular is what our lifestyle is.
And of course the basic definition of secularism..separation of the Catholic Church from the Government.. like in US or Europe. We are a Parliamentary Monarchy not theocratic Iran.
‘I hate N’Sync’
Terimakasih saudara/saudari kerana memberi komentar terhadap pandangan saya. Boleh tuan/puan perincikan bentuk prejudis dan prasangka buruk yang saya telah ketengahkan dalam tulisan saya tersebut.
Juga, jelaskan konsep pengasingan antara kerajaan dan institusi keagamaan yang telah dihadam oleh tuan/puan. Jika saya tersalah,saya sangat berbesar hati dan mohon tuan/puan perbetulkan. Sudah tentu ianya sangat menghiburkan saya. Prasyarat utama untuk menjadi seorang yang kritikal ialah tidak menerima bulat-bulat apa saja yang disogokkan oleh orang lain kepada dirinya.
Sekadar membuat tuduhan tanpa cadangan dan jalan penyelesaian ianya tidak membawa kita ke mana-mana…! Sedangkan saya sendiri tidak mengetahui adanya persamaan di antara saya dengan Taliban.
Cuba bersikap tenang dan lapangkan dada dalam memberi hujah di atas perkara yang kita bahaskan agar kelihatan terserlah keintelektualannya.
Untuk pengetahuan saudara/saudari, saya tidak punya authority untuk memberi takrifan dan pengertian sekularisma. Saya sekadar memperpanjangkan sahaja maksud tersebut apabila Ahmad Ibrahim dan Helen berhujah tentangnya. Takrifan tersebut datangnya dari sarjana barat seperti Hobbes, Locke, Leibneitz, Rosseau dan juga sarjana Islam seperti Sa’dah dan Arkoun.
Hubungi mereka untuk mendapatkan kesahihannya…!
Wahai saudara muda,
Since I am not paid to enlighten you, dan saya tak ada ijazah pendidikan, do bear with me kalau terkasar bahasa. Benda free-kan, memang ada cacat-celanya.
Asal-usul perkataan sekular tak penting. Yang penting adalah maksud konteks dan tujuan aplikasinya dalam perbincangan kita. Yang sedang dibincangkan adalah konsep negara sekular or a secular state. Kalau diperincikan Perlembagaan Malaysia, jelas negara kita tidak memenuhi takrifan klasik negara sekular (agama rasmi Persekutuan itu Islam).
Apabila muda melalut ke fahaman sekular dan kaum-kaum yang sewaktu dengannya, serta membawa masuk fardhu ain dan fardhu kifayah, saya dah mula rasa pelik. Taktik ini sudah membelakangkan lunas perbincangan kita, yakni, pengaruh institusi keagamaan dalam urusan berkerajaan. Kemudian saudara muda mulalah dengan carutan yang tak masuk akal bahawa fahaman sekular itu hendak “menguburkan” dan “menghapuskan” agama “secara total di muka bumi ini”.
Kemudian muda dengan gah mengatakan setiap orang Islam akan berdosa kalau tak mengerjakan kedua-dua fardhu ain dan fardhu kifayah. Ini sudah masuk bab peribadi individu, bukan institusi kerajaan. Kalau Malaysia berpaksikan al-Quran dan Sunnah dan bukan Perlembagaan Malaysia, mungkin apa yang diperkatakan muda itu boleh diterima. Hakikatnya, Perlembagaan Malaysia jelas bukan negara teokrasi, dan juga bukan negara sekular tulen, tetapi mengikut konvensi sistem negara UK.
Bodohlah seseorang kalau dikatakan pengaruh keagamaan itu dapat dipisahkan daripada kehidupan harian kita. Tetapi, konsep negara sekular itu bukan menyuruh seseorang itu menjadi atheist, deist atau agnostic. Konsep pemisahan antara institusi agama dan institusi kerajaan berpunca daripada pengaruh Vatican, gereja katolik yang mencampuri urusan kuasa raja-raja dan pembesar negara Eropah. Seperti dulu, Khalifah itu ketua agama dan juga ketua negara, tetapi hari ini, sistem demokrasi berparlimen telah mengasingkan peranan tersebut. Even Iran has separate authorities for religious edicts and governmental administration.
Apa yang perlu kita hayati adalah tanggapan dan persepsi menyimpang bahawa pengasingan institusi keagamaan dan institusi kerajaan itu sebenarnya anti agama. Saya rasa, itu satu kesilapan. Parti PAS sendiri pun menyedari bahawa kepimpinan golongan ulama dan mufti sahaja adalah tidak mencukupi untuk mencernakan hala tuju perjuangan moden. Apatah lagi negara kita negara pelbagai ras dan kaum dan sudah berperlembagaan?
Saudara muda membelakangkan Perlembagaan Malaysia dan memperjuangkan agar al-Quran dan Sunnah dijadikan sumber kuasa tertinggi perundangan Malaysia, saya faham. Tetapi, ketika ini, punca kuasa institusi kerajaan di negara ini adalah berdasarkan Perlembagaan Malaysia, bukan kepala lutut awak atau saya. Jadi, apakah tujuan dan niat saudara muda membobrok dan menyelar konsep dan elemen negara sekular yang sudah termaktub dalam Perlembagaan Malaysia? Kalau tak boleh terima, boleh berambus dan pergi negara lain-lah, bukankah begitu jawapan standardnya?
Masalah saudara muda, Hobbes, Locke, Jefferson dan Rosseau tu sudah lama mampus dan lainlah kalau saya ada kecenderungan untuk bunuh diri, menghubungi jasad-jasad kaku ini mungkin agak sukar. Setakat petik daftar istilah itu bukan keintelektualan, hanya kebukuan.
Realitinya, kebanyakan negara-negara di serata dunia hari ini “have varying degrees of separation” antara kerajaan dan institusi agama. Yang harus ditekankan di sini adalah pengasingan antara INSTITUSI keagamaan dan kerajaan, bukan agama dan kerajaan. Kita ada majlis agama, ada majlis raja-raja dan kedudukan Islam adalah terjamin. Pada masa yang sama, Perlembagaan Malaysia turut menekankan bahawa tidak ada diskriminasi dari segi agama dalam perundangan dan tatacara kenegaraan.
Di bangku sekolah kita belajar tentang pelbagai agama dan fahaman pengetahuan, dari konsep evolusi ke konsep creationism – ilmu fardhu ain dan fardhu kifayah katakan. Lunas-lunas dan rasional untuk menjalankan sesuatu peraturan baru mesti berlandaskan alasan yang bernas dan sekular (kepentingan awam atau public interest), bukan tekanan majoriti atau diktat buku suci. Selagi saudara muda tak faham atau buat-buat tak faham, tuduhan melulu dan melampau tentang fahaman sekular itu hanya omong kosong saja.
This is a strange question from you Helen, seeing that UMNO is a secular party is the biggest Malay party in Malaysia..haha. PAS is the theocratic society trying to score points saying that the Prophet was not a nationalist.
The Malays are secular that is why we rock, roll, sing, dance, mix freely, shake hands freely, celebrate valentine, have parliamentary monarchy, allow votes for women, make women judges all things that are abhorent to Middle East/Indian Islam.
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Hi,
I just retrieved your earlier comment from the spam queue where it inadvertently landed. Among my filter settings for Reader Comment is a cap (limit) of two embedded urls. In your case, you could have been spammed by WordPress due to suspect e-mail address (just informing you). Cheers.
Helen
And Helen, as for the assertion that “if one day he doesn’t feel like to carry on, just get out and say bye bye to Jesus, life goes on”, from my own personal experience as I too have Christian friends, once you get into Christianity, you don’t get out. You stay there, you become more evangelical and your level of evangelicalism is determined by how feverish your fellowship is. The more feverish, the more evangelical.
“at some point, the MCA could well conclude that it is not worth it” meaning that despite providing the help and still the MCA is not making any progress with regards to the Chinese electorate, might as well stop helping and see what happens next.
What I m really interested is when the MCA stops all that it is now doing for the Chinese community and says to the DAP “we’re not going to do anything anymore from now on. Now you said you fight for the Chinese community, so you help them”.
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Agree. MCA should take a one-election term sabbatical. Let DAP fend for the Malaysians First (‘Chinese’ label taboo to them). — Helen
But then Helen, the rabid DAPsters will simply say “who needs you anyway MCA” ha ha ha ! That typical attitute of the DAPsters.
one-election term sabbatical? maybe the rejected otk have that guts, but he dont even last one term.
Please read https://ifilesjs.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/prologue/ and subsequent chapters especially with regards to Anwar Ibrahim roles of Arabicationing of the Malaysia education system during his tenure as Minister of Education.
I concur with the story because during the years of 70s and 80s, my primary and secondary schooling year; there is no religious indoctrinization in the 70s and it changes drastically during later year of the 80s.
Anwar Ibrahim screwed up our Primary and Secondary education system and subsequently the Higher Learning Institution.
Exactly what I wanted to point out when I said “when Moses the Raven/Crow preached the Heavens to our national school students and viola ! Just as Moses the Raven/Crow in Animal Farm regaling the denizens/animals with tales of a wonderful place called Sugarcandy Mountain, to distract the animals from doing their work, Anwar the Messiah screwed up our national education system with his religious indoctrination program, of course with some help from Mahathir. (Mahathir provided help by saying nothing about Anwar’s religious indoctrination. Sometimes the best form of help you can give is actually to say nothing while the other guy is doing his thing).
even if there is no anwar ibrahim, there would still be another one like ahmad ibrahim, no one could reject the wave at that time, mahathir just ride on it, he wanted to be the leader of muslim world.
Good observation here. But wrong correlation. Saya setuju dengan Ahmad Ibrahim di bawah. There was a wave after de colonisation and the loss of European influence in Asia in the 70s and until now.
There was nothing perhaps AI and Mahathir could do because they were a generation product of colonisation itself trying to find their feet. But they could have done better instead of rolling along. The Indonesian fared better against Arabisation with their Pancasila.
What should be of concern is to make people realised that the so called is Islamisation is nothing more than Sekolah Arab in a different guise. Sekolah Arab has long existed where enthusiastic missionaries spread and benefited from it. But that was before and the Malays cannot allow this 1400 years old lifestyle engulfed the Malays wearing white jubah to equate with purity. I pointed out to my nephew that the Arabs wear the jubah to football games…
Dear Hua Yong,
“Helen, my son seek my opinion whether he could join his friend church activities, i told him please go ahead, i don’t mind even if he become a Christian, and told him if one day he doesn’t feel like to carry on, just get out and say bye bye to Jesus, life goes on.”
If your son seek your opinion whether he could join his friend Surau/Islam activities, what would be your answer?
Saudara Man Jebat, he will say to his son “son if you join them, when you convert to Islam, you have to get circumcised. Think carefully son”.
“…and son, when you doesn’t feel like to carry on and say bye bye, it will never grow back as it was before, life still goes on but you will always remember the past when you look at it”.
wow pakard, very precise and lovely written. but that is the reality here, sad isn’t it?
..no la Huayong,..its just another side of me,..the sacastic old man.. when people talk about convert to Islam is all about cutting out a piece of man most precious belonging, i just cant resist making fun out of it…but when you wrote “that is the reality here, sad isn’t it?’, that makes me sad.
Man Jebat, sorry to intrude and minta ampun. Firstly you state “Please read https://ifilesjs.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/prologue”
Secondly your question to HY “If your son seek your opinion whether he could join his friend Surau/Islam activities, what would be your answer? Now do you want me to answer what is politically expedient or shall I strip you naked on your agenda. Now how does Anwar’s crap like BN has served the common folks or how does it matter how HY deals with his children.
Don’t you guys/gals ever learn. I maybe wrong in my perception, but I think this blog is not for scumbag politicians or political notion but rather what Malaysian amongst each other can enhance without the typical greed & lust for power but rather for the betterment of the community amongst each other irrespective of our origin that can dictate how we want it to be.
Dear MalaysianinNewYork,
“Now do you want me to answer what is politically expedient or shall I strip you naked on your agenda. Now how does Anwar’s crap like BN has served the common folks or how does it matter how HY deals with his children.”
1. Strip me naked of my agenda? What is my agenda?
2. Did you read that link from Prologue to Chapter 4?
3. Government policies do not guide Malaysia?
Learn what MalaysianinNewYork? What ever you write or propogating have to be accepted by all me or any other readers, if not; me and other readers are not a learned person?
hey scumbag from new york..mulut busuk macam longkang..typical westerner to use drain language.
As I wrote in another comment, a chinese lady openly admitted to me how she disliked the smell of Arabs. If it weren’t for the big money and zero taxes, i doubt she’d work in the MidEast!
Of course, I can tell that that same chinese lady (or others like her) would extend a similar ‘compliment’ to other people of color in regard to odor.
In her defense (how polite of me to defend a chinese!), I do point out that due to genetics, there are differences in the sweat glands between chinese/orientals and non-orientals, hence the smell differences.
Does that smell issue explain, in part, the unfavorable attitude chinese people have towards the Islamic religion, which involves doing prostrations and being extreme close proximity to other people– brown people, especially– during prayer??
Would HuaYong have said to his children, after you do a trial prayer in mosque, make sure you don’t come home smelling like a Muslim??!
PS I don’t want to share what muslims think about the smell of pig eating Chinese. As you can imagine, it ain’t good.
Incidentally, as with virtually all things in life, science has a way to explain :-
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/smell-pork-genetic-component-study/story?id=16261564
OB, interesting. I often thought smell have more to do with where u live, what you eat and hygiene rather than who u r? in your view and your experience, is the smell of pig eating chinese the same with pig eating caucasian, black or indian?
Hua Yong: “my son (wants to) join friend church activities, i told him go ahead, i don’t mind even if he become a Christian..”
This is so perverse, showing Hua Yong doesn’t know he isn’t acting Chinese.
Another Chinese father, true to Chinese-ness, will answer straight, “no” and that’s that. If he has to explain, he’d tell the son to have his friends come to the temple or join the calligraphy class or camp at PD without the preacher. That is, HY doesn’t act the Chinese father that he is and should be because the son has no other, more reliable dependent.
Hua Yong represents many DAP Anglophiles: they pick up English and along the way ideas like “human rights”, so HY thinks he’s being progressive or liberal to permit “freedom of religion” to his son. But it’s Christians who are denying the son freedom from their Christianity, the freedom to be influenced and to be threatened with condemnation in hell.
Hua Yong is utterly delusional: note, too, that permission was sought only for joining activities, not to be Christian. HY instead takes it a step forward for his son – become Christian. How could he be so stupid if not because of his delusion?
No prizes for guessing the seed germinating into this delusional outcome prevalent among DAP Anglophiles but it is a seed being watered by the SSS camp.
hmmm wrong. chinese is relatively progressive and liberal on religion matter so there is no cigar for you, but I would not go further because i’m not qualified to explain certain concepts to an idiot that talking excitedly about his own vapid onanism like you, that may require professional psychiatric training.
Dear Man Jebat,
I presume you are sincere to know, hence i answer in good faith. My son goes through exactly the same as what I encountered during my school days, I even had the unforgettable experience to hold hand and hug the sexy and nice-looking evangelist, just too bad I am not into it at all whenever religion topic was brought up, I even told my preacher friends I found Islam more logical compare to their sermon. They gave up on me finally.
I think your question is moot because I could never imagine a Muslim would extend such invitation since no one ever asked me. But if such case do happen, and to be frank my wife would straight away say no, I personally would ask more question like what is the program and intention, and why, and inform my son what Islam is about in our Malaysia context, my answer would be yes if the purpose is to learn more about Islam and Muslim.
I believe in ‘fate’ （缘）when come to religion.
PS/ AI do have a point if issue on convert arises. but I too read many writing from Muslim in various blog like R2W, Khalid Samad and from Mat Saman Kati. I think their sincerity and good faith change my perception in a great way toward Islam, but no freedom of religion is a fact pertaining to Islam, at least in Malaysia.
Dear Hua Yong,
Thank you for your answer.
There is a male Account Manager (Sales) in late 20s of a local congrolemate servicing me, courting for a million Ringgit Malaysia transaction.
He is a Malaysian Chinese from Penang (Both parent are Buddhist). Over dinner we strike a conversation with regards to his family and him personally. To cut a long story short, it came to a friendly discussion with regards to religion.
At present time he is actively involved with the envalegical Christian of the DUMC fames.
I had asked, what exactly makes him attracted to the Christianity as his religion and whether he had explored and research about all other religion that available on this world or Islam especially? His answer, his girlfriend introduce him to the DUMC Church and the shocking answer is “I can never learn or research about Islam. If my parent know, they will disown me. Learning about Islam is equal to converting to Islam and converting to Islam is equal to “Masuk Melayu”!”
His parent totally accept Christianity because converting to Christianity means he remain Chinese and converting to Islam means he is no longer Chinese and became Melayu!
Islam as religion is “NO” because of hatred towards Malay?
There is more Muslim in the population of China than the whole population of Malaysia itself.
Dear Man Jebat,
Thanks. I don’t think this has anything to do with hatred but regrettably, it seems the perception toward ‘masuk melayu’ is common. I am not going to articulate in detail because I often thought we know the answer. I cited here links of well-known KMT Muslim (Hui) general Bai Chongxi, and his son Bai Xianyong, an author. I first learn about Bai Chongxi when i read history of contemporary China, and I read Bai Xianyong work since school day, he was one of the best writers in Taiwan during 70’ and 80’. He is now a Buddhist, his son is a Christian. Would this make anyone of them more, or less Chinese?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_Chongxi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pai_Hsien-yung
From wikipedia:-
How very ‘Muslim-y’ of him! PAS would consider him kafir on the spot!
I can tell you one thing, there is something about Islam’s image that makes the western world think it’s the brown man’s religion.
The yellow man has always sought to be white by adopting the white man’s religion– christianity.
Let me tell you it’s not isolated to the chinese. A few months ago in the US, I met up with an Arab UCLA post-doc, and NASA JPL scientist, also Arab. Both married white, European-American women. I’d bet in a couple of generations, their children would care not to be associated with the brown man’s religion.
I would suggest a solution to this image problem, but PAS and probably even UMNO muslim won’t like hearing it.
OB, do u consider bai a kafir as will? the last 2 century is obviously a white hegemony in almost every aspect, are not most malaysian elite have their education in the west, or adopt a westernised system locally? like i said, chinese is relatively open when come to religion, but at the same time, we dont like religion to dictate how we live our lives. just curious, what is your view on freedom of religion, let say if you are not a malaysian?
MCA and Gerakan are already a spent force. As the saying goes in Malaysian politics, ‘Take what they give but vote for the other side.’ What else can the MCA and Gerakan offer to the Chinese? They have done almost everything that should be done, and still the support is not there.
As long as there is Pakatan, DAP will stand strong because the Chinese will have hope of one day the Malay tide will turn in their favour, and to do that, they must stand behind DAP and Pakatan and not let it fall.
The way things are looking, I think GE is a foregone conclusion. BN will still win GE13 but whether there is going to be 2/3 majority for them, is still a question in limbo. That’s why Najib is delaying the polls because he needs the 2/3 majority for his political stature. He already has the Malay, pribumi, Indian and some Chinese votes, but he really wants the Chinese votes which, unfortunately, is not forthcoming at this moment.
Perhaps he should just focus on what he can have realistically, and deal with the Chinese issue after the election, and then win back the Chinese votes in GE14. Considering the way he has to deal with the morale of UMNO and BN after GE12, he has done remarkably well to heal the confidence of BN and turn the table on Pakatan.
Even if he does not get the 2/3 he wants, he has done the improbable in such a short period of time. Give him the chance and we’ll see what happens to his dealings with the Chinese. Better days may come.
I have been trying to tackle a beautiful Chinese girl for quite some time. I have done many things to impress her. Visit her, help her, gave her flower and present and always willing to help her. But she was looking at somebody else — a handsome guy and charismatic guy name Anwar.
Of course with Anwar around, I am no match against him. I am ugly, short and brown. I was ignored however hard I have tried.
After years of trying, I give up. I was attracted to an Indian girl and after few months of courting, we get married. It was a productive marriage as we have five kids now.
On reflection, if I keep on trying to tackle the Chinese girl, I may still be a bachelor.
My advice to the BN, you have tried many things and yet was ignored by the Chinese. As they were ignoring you, please pay more attention to others; the Malays, other Bumis and the Indians … They will appreciate you more than the Chinese.
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LOL at your “five kids now”. My neighbours must have heard me cackle. — Helen
I once courted a Chinese woman. She was utterly white on the inside and yellow on the outside, a banana. After a while we broke up. A friend of mine, a white guy told me this : hey buddy, there’s no need to court those bananas. They are not the real deal. If you want a real deal, get a white woman. The counterfeit stuff, they are not the real deal, they can’t provide real satisfaction. They only make you feel worse off, like you’ve been cheated of something. I laughed out loud after that. A counterfeit Doll. Ha ha ha !
hi..ada sesiap yang boleh tolong saya macam mana nak add blog melalui wordpress ni tak?
Swee leong,
That maybe the reason why Malays are criticizing Najib for giving so much attention to Chinese when they do not support him.
Najib maybe forced to give more attention to groups that supports him. As for the Chinese, it is up to them. If they are with Bn, then I am afraid there will be fewer Chinese in Cabinet.
Awesome discussion… Politics, religion, education… We truly have one of the most complex societies on earth…
I have a question about trust. Why do the Malays not trust the Chinese? My own postulation is that it is difficult to trust a people whose religion is money. Is this a ‘sangka buruk’ on my part? When we wish ‘a happy and prosperous Chinese New Year’, does it imply a wish for more wealth?
As we all know Muslim (Malays) believe in afterlife and Judgment Day where all good deeds and bad deeds will be rewarded and punished accordingly (although many of us forget..amazing that we forget since it is mentioned on almost every single page of the Qur’an, and those who forget are of course, often untrustworthy). We also believe that everything we have is from Allah swt and not from our own ‘talents’ or from other people. Anything He gives us, He can take away just as easily. So these two worldviews are very different from each other…
How do these worldviews then compare to the Christian one ie ‘salvation’ is through Jesus alone and *not* through good deeds (many evangelists go to town belaboring this point which i find bizarre). Accept Jesus as your ‘saviour’ and you get a free pass. When Christians ask us how we Muslims will be ‘saved’… What do they mean? Islam is so simple to understand.
How do these worldviews contribute to our behavior and how treat each other?
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A quick note (since I’m in the middle of writing a post, coming up shortly): I’ve been mulling over Shamshul Anuar’s many comments on 153 & figure the article hinges on our “complex” societal structure which is unique in the world hence our VS system & secondly the Chinese profit motive. Yup, clearly seen in the mercenary behaviour of The $tar. — Helen
Iqraq, the whole Malay archipelago is an enigma to Chinese. In China 1.3 billion people. In its history (Chinese), flooding, earthquake, war, famine, sickness…. people die by thousands not just hundreds, like cockroach… A few million die, so what… so many more looking for food and need to face tomorrow….
That is why Chinese first question isn’t “salam, apa khabar?” but “have you eaten? (dah makan?)” Eating and filling stomach better than being polite (no time).
Like everyone, Chinese also believe in akhirat (afterlife). Otherwise, why prayer for dead & burn offering so that they have safe journey between earth & after life or hell to heaven? They burn hell money to try help (buy) get relative out hell to heaven. No money, no talk. The more money you have, better chances to try to buy “merit” to offset what you do in this life.
Could be some oversimplying here by a Cina celup but my point…. the Chinese try ways to survive. So that is why they arrived on Malay shores, gold mines in Australia or railroad lines in the New World (US). They try to pass whatever they have to the next generation & hope for the best… Akhirat? Try to work things out now & hope for the best in the next life (hopefully better). Therefore, its not right or wrong but a matter of perspective.
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I would look at the glass as half full instead of half empty. The Chinese possess traits such as industry, resilience, stoicism, resourcefulness, continually striving for upward mobility (i.e. self-improvement) and caring for their young, i.e. providing the best for their children as well as observing filial piety / enabling several generations & extended families to live under one roof. — Helen
Helen, I appreciate your grasp of this issue & putting it in a succient manner, as always. You noticed my “caveat” – “oversimplying” the issue. Upward mobility is in the human genes, a hope for a better tomorrow. Let’s not go into the great European migration but just talk about the Chinese & Indians. Since the beginning of time (genesis of these two cultures) they have ventured outside their lands for trade & looking for greener pastures (the human dream).
They carried with them the traits you mention. However, sometimes in search for survival, one had to either forgo these principles. Worst, Chinese congregated in enclaves called China towns leading to a sense of “exclusivity.” What was an apparent fear of the new environment and seeking solace with one’s own kind became a mental fortress, shutting off any contact with the locals. Therefore, assilmilation became harder.
In Malaysia, we have gone a long way in assimilation & integration. However, our full acceptance of others and their culture has many shortcomings. Its sad when the most prominent example of who and what Chinese are is seen through the lenses of DAP (since MCA & Gerakan are so inapt and lost their voice in representing the community either through in-fighting, scandals, lost of focus or taking the Chinese community for granted).
Like you said, I hope DAP doesn’t test the full limit of communial relationship where integration comes with a heavy price.
Worst, Chinese congregated in enclaves called China towns leading to a sense of exclusivity.”
Is the Chinese alone? What about Thai Town, Little Saigon, Little Taipei, Little Tokyo, Korea Town, Little India, Japanese Town Ethiopia Town, Little Cambodia, Little Italy in many parts of US? I believe the American rather call this multiculturalism and not exclusivity.
If chinese schools were so damn good, why do the chinese still send their children to private tutors? Obviously they are not good enough!
good is relative, and i believe we dont even share the same definition of good in this case, it is more likely a better choice after scrutinize the various factor that concern the parents. there are many national school that are equally good or better, just not many enough to accommodate all.
One thing about the Malays you need to admire no matter how you see them. They have this thing called ‘tolak ansur.’ You can see this in Najib. He is a typical manifestation of this ‘tolak ansur’ element. The Chinese should not be ashamed to learn this examplar attitude. Less of kiasu and more of accomodation. Najib has been trying very hard to accomodate the Chinese wishes but you cannot have it all. See Dong Zong who pulled out of the discussion on Chinese education? Now you show your tiger skin. One day you will only have a cat skin to show. Be humble. Have tolak ansur. Be willing to learn from others. This will add to your greatness of character.
Helen,
I hope you are not offended with my remarks. I am not against chinese. I am just saying what the Malays feel.
I am irritated when some Chinese complained about being treated as 2nd class. What do they mean? Dont they have at least the courtesy to recognise that in Malaysia the govt fully funded their schools yet does not try to control the school.
What Malays realise is that many Chinese are unwilling to integrate with the rest of Malaysians as they look down on people with darker complexion.
Many of my Chinese friends are surprise when I told them the sentiments of vast majority of malays are not as depicted in STAR or Chinese newspapers.
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The Chinese, if they had any cow sense at all, should make more of an effort to realise how the Malays really feel about the present situation and how the other races are fast losing patience with their DAPster behaviour. They’re really testing the limit. — Helen
Mat Jebat, you say “Learn what MalaysianinNewYork? What ever you write or propogating have to be accepted by all me or any other readers, if not; me and other readers are not a learned person?”. Sorry and do apologize if I sound too intimidating. I am a regular Joe/ Jane like you who at times can get overzealous in my approach when we continue round around the bush without indentifying the core issues. I am sure you have the same good intention as the rest of us. I hope that you would accept my apologizes in characterizing you.
Hey Forestcat, you say “hey scumbag from new york..mulut busuk macam longkang..typical westerner to use drain language”. Really!!!. I do apoligize for being the scumbag I am, the mulut busuk macam longkang I am in your perception. Maybe you can educate me who lack the intellectual capacity and moral fortitude to engage in an honest and informed civil debate for the malaysian society besides the cursing. Maybe you are perfect, and do excuse me for my deficiency as a scumbag but I am willing to listen and learn what you can contribute to me to be educated in besides the obscenity .
Helen,
My father related this story to me. At times when Kuan Yew was trying to replace MCA as representative in Malaysia, it tried to woo UMNO.
UMNO although at position of strengh told PAP that its relationship with MCA is longer than its ties with PAP. It will not abandon ties with MCA just to placate PAP.
PAP went on questioning Malay rights, thus upsetting Malays. UMNO was very upset. Some UMNO politicians wanted to put Kuan Yew into jail. They went to Tunku asking his permission to sent troops to Singapore and take over the singapore state govt.
Tunku just had to say “yes’, and Kuan Yew would have ended in jail. But the magnaminity of the Malays in Tunku made him refuse the suggestion.
In other countries, LKY would have been dead. Look what happen in Acheh, Timor timur, Chechya, Xinjiang , MIndanao, pattani what some state politicians showed defiance against Federal Govt. In no time, the supreme leader would have sent in the troops.
I hope the Chinese in general do not test he Malays to the limit. Do remember the tragedy when the goodwill just vanishes.
By all mean, criticize and offer suggestion. But stop questioning provisions for Malays in Constitution.