“Lim was in his street-fighter element when running down Barisan and mocking Umno.” — Joceline Tan in The Star, on the Chua Soi Lek-Lim Guan Eng debate 2.0 yesterday.
Yes maam, he sure was.
Yet most ironically, “streetfighter” Kim kept haranguing the MCA with “Shame on you”.
This ‘shame on you’ sloganeering is the same theme carried by mrs cmlimguaneng Betty Chew in her banner hoisted at the Malacca state assembly (photo here) as well as by Kim’s understudy Hannah Yeoh just a couple of days ago in her “MCA, Malunya Chua Alahai” retweet (screenshot here).
This story might interest you too — ‘How Penang created the Rainbow Making Machine’
Debate 2.0 topic is ‘DAP & MCA: Whose policies benefit the country more?’
I’m providing url links (click below) to the debate recording uploaded by YouTube user account ‘eTVmsia’ in 14 parts.
Venue: Sunway Pyramid Convention Centre before an audience of 1,500.
Synopsis
I’m not touching on Dr Chua’s presentation but shall point out the worthy highlights of Kim’s high class performance (his scolding MCA “shame on you” several times during the course of the action).
If he chooses to take the moral high ground by characterizing his party’s chief rival as shameful (inferring “low class”) then it is implicit that the Papa DAPster doing the scolding must be, conversely, high class lah.
Minutes 0-1.30: Emcee’s introduction.
The rest of the clip is the moderator’s introduction.
Entire clip is the moderator’s introduction (continued).
Kim is first speaker and wishes the crowd “Salam Bersih kepada semua”.
[All transcripts lifted from yesterday’s The Star. Note: The newspaper did not provide a full transcript. I cannot guarantee either that the transcription is error free — please see footnote* below.]
Kim:
“MCA is not qualified to talk about politics here, as it is not MCA who decides — it is Umno who decides.
“The MCA speaks only for the Chinese, and those from the Peninsula — not Sabah or Sarawak.
“It is different for DAP — we want to speak for all Malaysians. Malay, Chinese, Indians, Iban, Kadazan.”
etc, etc
The MCA president takes the floor and addresses the crowd with “Salam 1Malaysia”. Whole clip covers Dr Chua’s opening submission.
Dr Chua answers moderator’s question.
Kim answers the moderator’s question.
Note minute 1:12:
“Tetapi kita tidak boleh nafikan bahawa Umno begitu berjaya untuk memomokkan kaum Melayu bahawa DAP anti-Melayu, anti-Islam. Sungguhpun saya masuk penjara untuk keluarga Melayu, mereka cakap saya anti-Melayu.”
[Tepukan gemuruh dan ‘standing ovation’ diberikan oleh sekerat DAPster di kalangan hadirin dewan]
(Below: Transcript lifted verbatim from ‘The Star‘)
Question: Many people still see DAP as Chinese-based party. Are you a Chinese party or multiracial party, how would you try to win more support among other races if you are multiracial?
Kim:
“From the very start we are a multiracial party. Our chairman is Indian, we have Indian MPs, have Malay MPs and state assemblymen in the past. We are fair to all regardless of race and religion. Would like the MCA president know that not every Chinese rich as the MCA leaders.
“Not every Chinese can apply for PR in Australia.
“Don’t forget that the Chinese community pays the most taxes in Malaysia.
“At the same time we want to see justice and see our Malay brothers and sisters are assisted.
“Why is it poor Chinese can’t get scholarships but rich bumiputras can?
“Don’t go and talk about DAP forming a kindergarten. We are a political party to determine the future of Malaysia.
“TAR College is clearest example of failure of MCA. Why was it established? Because of unfair quota policies where qualified students cannot enter public universities, so you formed TAR College. Shame on you MCA.
“Don’t say we haven’t built low cost housing. We have built. Don’t lie.”
Dr Chua takes a question from Roketkini editor Wan Hamidi Hamid: “Is MCA scared of Umno that they don’t dare to question corruption claims? Is there equal partnership in BN?”
Kim takes a question from Chor Chee Heung, MCA Minister for Housing and Local Government.
(Transcript lifted verbatim from ‘The Star’)
Question: I’ve read your Buku Jingga, stated among other things that if party win GE, forms central government they are going to abolish all road tolls, PTPTN and give income to houses [households] that make less than RM4,000 to make up that amount. Lots of other goodies. How are you going to implement these policies bearing in mind annual revenue does not exceed RM200bil?
Kim:
“This the first time I’m hearing from a minister admitting corruption cost us RM26bil. Question is, what you doing about it? Are you accepting the fact that BN permits corruption? That’s why I say shame on you again.
“Don’t talk about collections from public. When DAP organises dinners, we don’t give free dinners like MCA or Umno. We charge because we rely on public funds to survive. We don’t steal the government’s money. That is the difference between BN and PR, the difference between MCA and DAP.
“I think you need to read the right Buku Jingga, I think you read the wrong one. Abolish tolls, estimate of RM35mil. If you don’t believe can be done, vote us into power and we show you can be done.”
Monash University’s Prof. James Chin poses one identical question on NEP to both speakers. Kim replies first followed by Dr Chua.
(Minute 1:30) Kim:
“Tapi yang masalahnya berlaku adalah ia [NEP] digunakan oleh pemimpin-pemimpin Barisan Nasional dan Umno untuk membuat mereka jadi sangat kaya.”
He adds that “rasuah sangat teruk”. (See also Star report, ‘Penang CM promises to bring graft-free feat to national level‘)
Questions from the floor for both speakers. First question on independent Chinese school; Dr Chua answers first.
Second question from the floor on national education policy; Kim answers first.
Third question from the floor on whether MCA is a “battered wife” (bashed up by Umno); Dr Chua answers first. While he had been collected and measured earlier throughout, he visibly falters here.
Kim seizes the initiative to go on the offensive (4:35)
“Do not forget two million Malaysians, the best and the brightest, left the country replaced by what? All the unskilled labour from Myanmar, Bangladesh. Are you proud of that, MCA? This is another greatest failure of MCA ah.“
Fourth and final question from the floor on Penang Port Commission. Kim answers first.
Dr Chua’s concluding arguments. He is given 10-12 minutes.
Kim sums up. He is given 15 minutes.
Watch this particular final video clip (towards its end) if you want to see the demagogue doing his rabble-rousing thing plus to hear his unique way of speaking (lenggok).
DAPsters respond
Pink Twitter profile wor. The DAPSubangJaya Twitter account carries Hannah Yeoh’s personal website address.
The DAP supporters think Kim won the debate because he received more noisy applause from the live audience.
For those with an interest, Dr Chua is worth a watch for his contrasting style and also – in Joceline Tan’s words:
“… his forte lies in being factual and analytical and he thinks quite well on his feet. He is no drama king and he does not embellish the facts to entertain the people although he can be quite caustic in his rebuttals”.
But then again because Jos is from The Star, DAPsters will rubbish her assessment.
How the DAP camp evaluate their Dear Leader’s performance is indicated in the tweets by DAPSubangJaya — a Twitter account that is Hannah Yeoh’s alter ego.
How many Twitters and Facebooks does the Star Adun need? It’s clear that DAPSubangJaya was created to give the stamp of officialdom in order to reinforce as well as provide an impression of multiplicity of views.
Hannah does indeed know how to exploit social media and the press, especially the Si Gunting (MCA must beware the Scissors-stab-in-the-back at this critical period of perception war following the debate).
Note:
* In Debate 1.0, The Star transcript had attributed something to Kim Guan Eng which he did not say. The paper subsequently issued the following correction (19 Feb 2012):
“It has been pointed out to us that in the debate with MCA president Datuk Seri Dr Chua Soi Lek on ‘Is the Two-Party System Becoming a Two-Race System’, DAP secretary-general Lim Guan Eng did not make any statement that ‘We do not agree the Prime Minister must always be a Malay because we want people to decide’. The error in translation is regretted.”
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Helen Ang 
Helen,
setakat berdebat ala ceramah, LGE memang handal. Macam juga Anwar Ibrahim. Apa yang boleh dibanggakan sangat tentang DAP dan kerajaan Pulau Pinang yang diterajui nya?
Kita sendiri telah mendengar atau membaca keluhan rakyat Pulau Pinang sendiri akan masaalah yang mereka hadapi. Tetapi LGE hanya ‘brush aside’ persoalan yang dilemparkan, sebaliknya lebih suka mengugut akan menyaman pihak berkenaan. Pemimpin jenis apakah ini? Hanya berlagak tetapi kurang merendah diri.
Tengok sahaja Datuk Sri Najib, walaupun beliau seorang Perdana Menteri saya belum pernah melihat beliau melatah untuk menyaman sesiapa sahaja apabila tidak sealiran dengan beliau. Malah boleh dilihat beliau amat merendah diri dan mahu mendengar dan sentiasa berusaha untuk membantu rakyat dan memakmurkan negara.
Itulah perbezaan ketara tentang sikap dua orang pemimpin yang kita boleh nilaikan sendiri.
dia nak saman apa dia tahu bila ada tuduhan terhadap dia itu tuduhan betul mcm mana dia nak saman? kau ni pun bangang jugak kalau berfikir
According to who? The DAPsters ehhh.. Macam diaorang tepuk tangan tentang statement 2 juta Malaysia yang sangat bernilai telah diganti dengan di bangla dan si Myanmar..
Hmmm perhaps kita patut cadangkan kalau nak bangsa lain jadi majoriti pembayar cukai, mungkin boleh beri bangsa lain peluang sama rata didalam peluang pekerjaan!!
Tapi tak sebangang kau yang mebuta tuli mempercayai propaganda puak puak pembangkang, bercakap berdengung macam tong kosong, habuk pun tarak!
LGE ni pun sama standard dengan Anwar Ibrahim and Mat Sabu rupanya… Cakap aje pandai.. macam tong kosong. Bunyi kuat, tapi takde isi..
“You print, I sue!” sungguh takde kelasss.. tengok PM Najib.. even DS Rosmah… cool aje eventho orang PR fitnah n kutuk macam2..
haha.. kenapa tak berani bawak ke mahkamah?
sebab takut dibongkar segala kecurian itu ke?
Noted on the brightest talent next time we will make sure our janitors, mamak shop workers, constructions workers are from Malaysia and not Bangladeshi or Myanmar, becaused of hiring these foreigners two million Malaysians left the country.. Aduhai these Malaysians kerja mamak shop and become construction workers ke di oversea?? Hmmm suddenly I Teringat the saying bodoh tak boleh diajar, pandai tak boleh diikut!!
Most thinking fence sitters now realized LGE is just another empty tin, mere rhetoric. No content. I would be appalled to have someone of such caliber to represent Malaysia if Pakatan went to Putrajaya.
Terserlah sifat dan sikap sebenar seorang ketua menteri DAP berbangsa cina yang sungguh ego sombong angkuh dan beragak hebat. Inilah sifat kepimpinan yang sangat dibenci oleh bangsa Melayu dan umat Islam.
Melayu Islam umumnya sangat toleran, berbudi bahasa, sederhana dan merendah diri. Lim Guan Eng telah menampilkan suatu sifat yang jelas sebaliknya.
Video debat “ceramah” Lim Guan Eng ini wajar disebarkan kepada masyarakat Melayu, India dan rakyat Sabah Sarawak supaya mereka nampak dan sedar inilah brand DAP tulin yang tersembunyi selama ini.
Masa dia buat Rahim Tambi Chik dulu.. Dia dengan Betty tak pula ingat pasal anak-anak dan maruah keluarga orang tu. What goes around must come around…
At one point he arrogantly said “We can abolish the toll and just give us the mandate or vote” something like that. Toll Sungai Nyior pun tak dapat hapuskan. Inikan pulak nak hapuskan the entire toll in this country. Pegi dah….
Kenapa ‘surname’ LGE tu Helen tuliskan Kim, ingin sedikit penjelasan. Mula-mula ingatkan ‘typo error’. Ada maksud tertentu ke ?
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Sila rujuk http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/
Sebab itulah Tun M cakap debat2 ni bukan stail orang Malaysia. Memangla CSL tak buat mata juling kiri kanan and angkat tangan macam Karam Singh Walia, tapi beliau berpijak pada bumi yang nyata.
KGE macam orang naik Sheikh sebab menang sorak. Belum apa2 lagi keluar dari KGE, DAPSters dah sorak2. Gila glamour jugak rupanya KGE ni. Seriously mengganggu penonton lain nak dengar apa butir kata ‘bernas’ KGE itu.
Tapi paling tak boleh diterima (I rasa lawak), my atok is PAS hardcore, tapi atok I bukan PAS baru la. Dia PAS lama2 dulu time Harun Din tu. Tapi masih tegar. Even dia pun rasa KGE ni chauvinist dan terlalu taksub dgn Anwar. Stail bercakap pun mcm Anwar dah. Dia marah PAS taksub dengan Anwar and DAP, tapi dia sendiri tak boleh tinggalkan PAS. I pun tak paham, tapi memang ada orang yg mcm my atok. Anyone to second this?
macam mana ni, makin lama gua nampak dap lagi tinggi semangat cina dr MCA? MCA lg moderate.. kesederhanaan yg amat sesuai utk multiracial macam Malaysia.. kenapa la dap nak naik kan
takpe lah.. nk pergi duduk australia pergilah.. tgk macam mana diorg layan org asia?sampai org asia kene duduk setempat?? singapore?? negara yg boleh cari makan tp bukan negara utk org berpencen?? hikhik bersyukur lah berada di malaysia.. try duduk kt indonesia lah kalau brani.. ;p
mulut manis tetapi
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Nama ‘Ramli Sarip’ juga :) ? — Helen
Salam Dek Helen,
Tersentuh dengan petikan kata-kata LGE “Don’t forget that the Chinese community pays the most taxes in Malaysia.” Kata-kata ini penuh tersirat rasa bongkak dan sombong penuturnya. Orang bukan cina perlu terima “hakikat” ini. LGE menilai kutipan cukai melalui pecahan kaum dan dia tidak mengamalkan pekauman kerana sanggup dipenjara demi maruah keluarga Melayu.
Mana maruah bangsa Melayu apabila seorang Cina mengungkitkan pengorbanannya mempertahankan maruah satu keluarga Melayu. Dayus atau tidak peka… atau mari kita takbir ramai-ramai buat khalifah ini.
Pak Ard tak ingin menyentuh soal maruah keluarga Melayu yang dipertahankan LGE, cuma nak tegaskan tentang cukai yang disumbangkan komuniti Cina seperti dibanggakan LGE.
Benarlah orang Cina penyumbang cukai terbanyak, jadi orang bukan cina perlu menyahut cabaran ini dan berusaha agar bangsa mereka juga bersaing untuk menyumbang lebih banyak lagi.
Cukai dikutip dari pendapatan bergaji, hasil jualan dan transaksi perdagangan. Untuk memastikan orang bukan Cina dapat menyumbang cukai dengan lebih banyak maka mereka perlu memastikan urusan jual-beli dilakukan diantara sesama mereka. Pastikan setiap sen yang bertukar tangan mengambil kira faktor ini. Apakah kita mahu terus-terusan diejek penerima habuan dari cukai yang disumbang oleh orang lain?
Kebanyakan orang bukan cina adalah pekerja bergaji dan penjawat awam. Mereka adalah pengguna atau pembeli. Atas rasa saling bekerjasama dan sokong menyokong tak timbul soal siapa beri cukai lebih. Tetapi sekarang keadaan telah berubah, perkara ini diungkit. Jadi wajarlah orang bukan cina memastikan mereka berbelanja dan berurusniaga dengan kaum mereka supaya akhirnya dapat menyumbang cukai yang lebih.
Orang cina sudah pasti boleh mengekalkan prestasi mereka walaupun tanpa urusniaga dari orang bukan cina. Ini yang Pak Ard baca dari ungkapan LGE itu. Suasana ini yang diminta oleh LGE dan mereka yang sealiran dengan beliau. Bagi Pak Ard mudah saja… kita selalunya diberi apa yang kita hajatkan, lalu kita tunaikanlah hajat orang jika itu yang diinginkan. Malanglah kalau kita tak mahu sedar….
Sekadar catatan akhir, cukai jualan dikutip dari pengguna oleh penjual dan dibayar kepada pihak berkuasa. Jadi sebuah syarikat yang membayar cukai jualan cuma wakil bagi pihak pengguna tadi yang merupakan pembayar sebenar…..
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Pak Ard,
Rasa-rasanya orang CEO asing dan MNC beroperasi di negara kita yang membayar cukai banyak tidak pun mengungkit hal sumbangan mereka serta menuntut hak mencampurtangani dasar kerajaan atas alasan mereka pembayar cukai.
Helen
Dear Helen,
It was very interesting to follow the Malaysian political scene. Though I am no expert, but I can summarize in one single sentence:
“If is DAP, PAS & PKR: all the words are true. If you support BN, all of your words are LIES.”
I am so much (but less) surprised why the debate took place, if you are just there to tell someone’s “shame” and treating the opponent unequally?
What transpires the debate, just for the name of name of showing off?
We have yet to achieve the mentality as in western countries. Take for example, I was following recent debacles in England with regards to NatWest, Barclays as well as house of lords and benefit-package (dole).
You can be from any party, be it from government: You dont like thing, you say NO. Even if you are from the opposition and a plan goes for the people’s benefit, they still support it. In Malaysia, the mindset goes that: NO TO EVERY GOVERNMENT ACTION, DESPITE IT SHALL BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE PEOPLE.
It is soooo lame with our oppositions. In UK, you promise that, people will hunt you until you fulfilled. In Malaysia, you can promise anything and you dont have any obligation for that.
Where is our value? Our words (Malaysian) will one day, will not worth a penny.
Helen
The debate is titled ” Which party, MCA or DAP serves the community better?” (meaning Chinese community?)
This is oxymoronic. Why?
Reason No 1: The MCA, as a very senior partner in the BN government, had served the community via the BN Government. Citizens of Chinese descent all over Malaysia had been served well by the Government.
Simple proof: Go to the Government hospital, they get served by qualified doctors, and free medicine!!. Even in the USA, the richest country in the world – their Government do not, and had never given free medical treatment to the people.
And the DAP — what have they done that could outshine the services MCA had provided to the people?
Reason No 2: Is is doubtful (I would say impossible) that the DAP could serve the community better than the MCA in the future. Why?
The DAP and their Pakatan partners could not even name their shadow cabinet since winning big in 2008!!. What talent would they bring to serve the community better?
The MCA had been in the Cabinet since 1957. The CHinese community had benefitted from the services of the Government that involved the MCA. The CHinese community should tell the DAP esp Kim Guan Eng to stop dreaming. Go form the Shadow Cabinet and then tell us, day by day, policy by policy, action by action, what you would do differently compared to the BN Government and by extension, the MCA.
It is also oxymoronic for Kim Guan Eng to blame the MCA for the 2.0 million (is the figure correct?) Chinese who had migrated. Why?
KIm should have been asked by Dr. Chua – which country in this world has zero immigration?.
Yes. we can think of one country. The country whose leaders are also named Kim!!
If it was true – 2.0 million Chinese had migrated – Kim should also be asked who are these people? How come they are so mobile? Did they migrated to North Korea (and starved?) or to China (and get exploited) or to Africa (and get slaughtered) OR they had migrated to the USA, CANADA, the UK or to AUstralia and New Zealand?
WOuld it be the policy of the DAP and Kim if he occupies Putrajaya, to stop this migration. How dare he?
Being mobile is in the Chinese psyche. Dr. Chua should have reminded Kim – immigration was what brought KIM’s grandfather to Malaysia. He should embrace immigration rather than blame the MCA for it!
Is is also not true that these migrants were able to multiply their earnings 50 to 60 times compared to if they had remained in Malaysia?.
Is is also not true that they are able to earn big bugs not because their hosts countries take a big liking for them BUT because they are highly educated, intelligent and productive?
Is it also not true that these people who had migrated studied in the Malaysian schools and universities provided y the BN/MCA government?
The shame is not on MCA but on Kim Guan Eng and his party, the DAP and his PAKATAN for trying to fool the Chinese into thinking the MCA had been cruel to them.
The shame would also be on the Chinese community if they are fooled by Kim and could not see through his evil behaviour!
It is also moronic to ask the question Is the MCA afraid of UMNO?
Why?
UMNO, as one of the partners in the BN Government, since 1957 had agreed to many pro-Chinese policies and programs. Just to name a few –
1. The generous grants and rapid development of the New VIllages communities, and
2. The public money and support used for SRKJ(C) schools, TAR College, TAR University and many more.
UMNO own struggle is to alleviate the poor rural population and to promote the use of Bahasa Melayu. By agreeing to MCA to develop the new village communities, establish the Chinese Language (mandarin) based education institutions, does it mean UNO is afraid of the MCA?
The moron who asked this question – should be told of a word in the English dictionary – COMPROMISE.
But back to KIm and his gang — we all know from incidents like the ‘over my dead body’, DAP, PAS and PKR are only joined by the self serving reason of ‘ the enemy of my enemy is my friend’
While this warped political logic may serve DAP-PAS-PKR, it is no recipe for a better Government for all Malaysians, the CHinese community included.
SO who can serve the CHinese community better MCA or DAP?
Thank you
Who is Kim Guan Eng? Why keep saying Kim Guan Eng?
I only know of Lim Guan Eng.
Who is Lim Guan Eng? I only know Kim Guan Eng, the arrogant chauvinist hypocrite Cthief Minister of Penang from Melaka.
Never seen any leader as arrogant and egoistic as Kim. Even the fiery looking Karpal talks in generally polite manner in public. But the Kim, oh my…so “berlagak and sombong”
There was this interesting and independent analysis on the cost of Buka Jingga. Basically the verdict is Buku Jingga will bankrupt the nation.