Posted in Islam

Whose Islam? Umno: Muslim Malay; PAS: Malay Muslim (2)

By anonymous

Original comment @ 2013/02/27 at 12:11 am | In reply to vector

You need to realize that in Malaysia, Malay and Islam is viewed as synonymous, and Malays view Islam as not only a religion but a way of life. You can see this through various things like the syariah courts, Islamic banking and such.

A Malay party embracing Islam and therefore implementing Islamic details is inevitable. The existence of Islamic-based party like PAS helps to push it along, after all political parties want to win the people, and the Malays are an Islamic people. You seriously can’t expect for UMNO to be left behind.

As for Arabisation, I don’t see it much coming from UMNO types, while PAS politicians, well, you can just see it through their favorite uniforms. In fact, let’s just remind you that DAP in order to win PAS people wear Malay clothes and tudungs.

Seeing you dismiss UMNO going against PAS brand of Islam as just merely promoting their own brand clearly shows you don’t see how importantly Malays view Islam. Like I said, their religion is part of their way of life. You can just see for yourself the PAS types how they live and what they want implemented to see what their priorities are. It doesn’t need a non Muslim to see that whatever kind of Islam they are applying they are way behind the times.

By the way, what kind of progressive form of Islam do you have in mind and what party In Malaysia do you think would be closest to it?

Original comment @ 2013/02/27 at 4:16 pm | In reply to Conrad

You are asking for the impossible. The retro Malays you admire is something that remains in old movies and photographs.

Those were the times when Malays were Malays instead of Muslim Malays.

Yes, it changed over the years, be what the reasons, it doesn’t even take Malaysian Muslims to be responsible for the change. With globalization more Malaysian Muslims are are more involved in international Muslim matters. Whatever happens outside Malaysia changes the Malaysian Muslims as well. Also the changes can also be triggered by what Malaysian non Muslims do. What Lim Guan Eng did on Christmas is just stabbing his PAS partner in the back.

After what non PAS supporters have and still endure in the PAS strongholds, you saying PAS taking the moderate stance is unbelievable.

Maybe it just seems that way to non Muslims. So maybe cosmetics and outward appearances are that important after all, if they manage to make non Muslims think so.

On the other hand you have DAP politicians entering mosques and preaching using Koran to PAS supporters, even when everybody is real clear on what DAP’s position is towards the core of PAS principles. So I guess it’s a two-way street.

Original comment @ 2013/02/28 at 5:28 pm | In reply to Conrad

Well, even though you and I both probably want this argument to end, I just hope for you to see things from my viewpoint.

First, UMNO is a Malay party foremost, PAS on the other hand is an Islamic party. Over the years, the Malay identity come to strongly identify with Islam. You may doubt UMNO moderation, but let’s not forget that UMNO’s strength has always been due to its role in a coalition with Chinese and Indian parties since independence.

This relationship has been under fire by both PAS and DAP since a long time ago, with one side claiming UMNO betraying Malays by cooperating with Chinese and DAP claiming MCA’s being under UMNO . That by itself is proof that BN’s components have been settling at compromise since long ago. There is little hypocrisy involved unlike Pakatan’s relationship which is opportunistic, capitalizing on Anwar’s split with UMNO.

UMNO is a a party of Malays. It is only appropriate that they voice out the fears of the community they represent. Can’t say anything about the Malays who are against them, maybe they are just against UMNO (ABU?) or maybe they have other things at mind, like getting along with their current allies.

You think that Najib’s visit only sows disunity in the Palestine conflict. May I remind you that Najib visit is to the last elected representatives that the Palestinians voted to lead them, granted that elections that should have been held afterwards stalled, but that’s not solely Hamas’s fault. Besides Najib’s visit serves to lend legitimacy to Palestine that just been granted observer state status, and strengthen Malaysia’s support to Palestine that had started long before the Fatah Hamas conflict.

Also, it’s unfair to claim this when Anwar, leader of PKR allied with PAS himself supported the enemies of all Palestine with his own words.

UMNO’s role in inculcating Islamic values is limited to supporting Islamic institutions such as the fatwa councils, syariah courts, Islamic banking, and probably the occasional Islamic slogan which would be conveniently forgotten when the PM adopting it is out of office. It is necessary since Malays are Muslims and Malays are the majority of the country.

It’s ridiculous to imply UMNO instructs them all what to allow in and what not. They are not clerics and ulamas. Might as well imply that UMNO instructs courts who to win and lose cases. Come to think of it, you might have that prejudice too.

Now, the problem with PAS. PAS objective has always been the creation of an Islamic state and governed with Islamic laws. We’re talking about the party’s objective, not Islam itself when I mentioned that PAS betrayed itself even by allying with DAP in the first place.

By turning a blind eye to DAP’s further insensitivity, PAS not only manages to alienate its own followers, but also opens its whole existence up to ridicule. It’s only fitting payback for the insults and hatred that PAS itself has heaped on UMNO and their followers over the years. Even more satisfying that they made it happen themselves. It is unbelievable that PAS let this happen other than for whatever political purposes that they have.

Anyway, sorry for the long thing, I hope you don’t feel like I just want to get the last word or something.

Continues from:

Whose Islam? Umno: Muslim Malay; PAS: Malay Muslim (1)

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6 thoughts on “Whose Islam? Umno: Muslim Malay; PAS: Malay Muslim (2)

  1. This is funny, because readers probably don’t even know what religion these 2 guys are, so how strong would their opinions be if say, they are both not muslims?

    Anybody can have opinions nowadays.

    So…could I ask a question? What is it with that shuzheng blog? Whoever writes that blog really don’t like you.

    1. Since the commenter goes by the name ‘anon’ which is gender, race and religion neutral, then I guess his (default pronoun) opinions will have to stand on their own merit whatever you think his religion is.

    2. While I acknowledge the importance of an internal dialogue within the Muslim community, I think it does serve some purpose maybe even utilitarian, if Islam in Malaysia is discussed in a civil and rational manner regardless of who is doing the discussing and their professed religious affinities.

      As far as opinions go, I always liked Harlan Ellison’s take on it:

      “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

  2. Interesting topic Helen. Sunni & Shi’a I guess represents most of the Muslims in the world. Sunni with Hanafi, Shafi’i, Maliki,Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi’I , Ahamadiyya along with their down line. Then you have Shia with Ismailism, Jafri, Zaidiyyah and the sub branches.

    Trust me!!, you have the same thingy with the Hindus and Christians as well. Now how does all these subdivision equate into a moderate Malaysia. Does it need to be a religious element or what is humane on our intertwined culture? Are we telling ourselves that now religion is the most important thing in a Malaysian culture when our forefathers where more concern in working together in ensuring the development of the nation with religion as the last thing in their mind. I think we just have too much time in hand to delve everything in a religion equation and naturally that plays right into the hands of the politicians.

    Certain rightful human issues for fellow Malaysian irrespective of their beliefs should transcend religion fanaticism that is currently being stroked by the artificial politicians.

    I am no expert on Islam or its teaching, but I am an expert with my fellow Malay pakciks/ makciks /brothers/sisters as I grew up in a Kampong and on my own personal experience, they are the least fanatical people you can find unlike the door to door salesman who sells Christianity.

    I think the Malays in Malaysia need to address this question for themselves on their tolerance for the Non Malays whether it is religious or not but what is humane for their fellow Malaysians like how it was in the yesteryears. My two cents thought.

  3. I said this

    “I am no expert on Islam or its teaching, but I am an expert with my fellow Malay pakciks/ makciks /brothers/sisters as I grew up in a Kampong and on my own personal experience, they are the least fanatical people you can find unlike the door to door salesman who sells Christianity.”.

    No offence to the Christians, but having lived more than half my life in western world, I find it disgusting that you need to induce your religion upon another.

    Trust me, it is not just in Asia even in western countries they do have a door to door concept. This is a fact. Religion is something personal not shoved into your throat or how materially it enhances you.

    Please forgive me if I have offended Christians commentors in this blog as true Christians don’t use their religion just like the others to suffocate fellow beings for what is humane.

  4. As the final words on religion..hmm… lets just say that Islam as a whole is experiencing changes as the Arabs, the Malays etc watched the world unfolding on the internet.

    Islam progress will mirror that of Catholic Christianity or Evangelistas or mormons etc. They thrive on ignorance and fear of the unknown. The west is a perfect example where Islam is going. There might be some spike but overall no one would believe that JEsus the Jewish priest would live again. Unless of course you are a believer.

    Its all hogwash. But this mythology was easily accepted in ancient times and now among the Godless Chinese DAP group. Why? Because being Godless is a vacuum and hence they embraced the outdated Chrisitianity mythology of the European.

    Reverend Moon is an example of how he could persuade couples to fornicate in marriage thousands at a time. Why? Because he was able to fulfill their needs.

    Hanna Muniandy would never cross her mind to kahwin dengan Keling but general precept of religion that all men are equal induce her to discard normal Chinese disdain for Indians. The lack of decent Chinese men who would not play around with their assistants could be another reason.

    There in lies the trick of religion. They generally taught intuitive good social norms but with a twist to benefit the sponsors. Just like multi level marketing, these purveyors of religion used similar concept of downline getting more downline. And the guy/woman who started it at the top is the top honcho who benefited from the small donations down the line. That in the crux is how ancient society works. Some smart guy selling fake hopes and benefiting.

    What about Islam? Is it growing or diminishing? This is the important question with regard to Malay and Malaysia. Just like Christianity, the purveyors of Islam is finding it difficult to compete with youtube. Things that are taught by the Arabs just dont gel with modernity and technology. what will make Islam obsolete will be the natural result of knowledge and openness.

    Some Malays are still making money, more money for tudung, ceramah, books. But all these would never come to anything because the internet makes things so open that islamic values like prohibition of women body meaningless.

    The malays would probably listen and laughed at the crowd pleasing penjual ubat like Azhar Idrus but they will go home and watch naked women on the internet with a good feeling at least they are on God side. The exposure of hypocrites like Mat Sabu from PAS would never have been known without the internet. And the hilariously buttock scratching amoi servicing the top PKR Islamic leader can also be watched on the internet.

    So what is Islam to the Malays? Mat Sabu and AI are perfect examples of what Islam is to the Malays. These were caught and they are at the top of Islamic bodies like ABIM or PAS. What about those not caught on internet. So it seems the Malays put on a pretension of being islamic like what the Arabs would like them to be according to the Kitab but in reality, Islam as arabic lifestyles doesnt make sense.

    The problem would be when these new generation of sekolah Arab or Maahad comes into psychological conflict with what they see on the internet. Their pent up sexual feelings may result in sexual weirdos or offenders as reported.

    They would either blithely pretend to be arabised while enjoying the good things in life or they could discard islam which is less likely.

    These changes in Islam is reflected in Arab country itself. Islam home is Saudi Arabia just like God lives in the Vatican for Christianity.

    The so called fundamentalist are people who take themselves too seriously and for reasons that are beneficial to them. Can the Arab youth withstand the onslaught of naked women and men on the internet? In an islamic society where women and sex are repressed, this seems unlikely. The only thing keeping Islam together are the royal monarchy of Saudi Arabia. The King is aging. There will be power struggle among the tribes in Saudi Arabia just like Sunni and Shite Islam.

    As more Malays get exposed to Saudi Arabia and IRan then they will realised that Islam is just the extension of these societies. Thus any relevance to the Malays would be limited to the civilising and common values like truth, fairness and justice.

    The Malays would see that the sexual repression propagated by the Arabs are not followable even by PAS or ABIM. Hudud and Syariah are Arabs ways of life in the 7 century which cannot reconcile with respect and love for women kind. Not allowing women to drive the new technology not found during the time of their prophet, the car, is a clear example of how really idiotic tneir islam is in the eyes of the world. And the Arabs themselves know the world are laughing at their backwardness…

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