March 8, 2013 at 12:28 am
Gambar-gambar di bawah ini dirakamkan di mana? Cuba teka …
Untuk mengetahui lokasi dan nama jurugambar, sila klik sini.
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The difference between Gan Ping Sieu and Saifuddin Abdullah BN based on racial formula, Pakatan based on racial formula
Lim Tat | March 8, 2013 at 12:45 am
Tanpa klik pada link, saya teka….Sunway Lagoon! 8 Mac, ulangtahun peringatan ke atas mangsa-mangsa bencana tsunami di Selangor, Perak, Pulau Pinang & Kedah.
-tafakur selama setengah jam-
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 12:47 am
Lim Tat | March 8, 2013 at 2:44 am
Ingatkan ada dapat tiket free masuk iCity water park..hehe
Fakin' Fake Calvin | March 8, 2013 at 1:07 am
Namun begitu masih ada yang mendoakan ombak gadang yang lebih besar akan melanda negara sehinggakan pemimpin pemimpin PR dihanyutkan ke pintu Putrajaya.
Kalau itu lah kesudahan PRU13, bersedialah untuk bertafakur selama 5 tahun.
Btw, was updating my mobile app earlier & browsed around whole waiting. Someone actually created this game app called “Conquest of Putrajaya”. And the graphics based on the screenshots had cartoon likeness of the PM, DPM, CSL & DSAI.
Lim Tat | March 8, 2013 at 2:40 am
Perrgh..5 tahun..Tak sanggup rasanya. Anak dah masuk pra sekolah, rumah mampu mimpi pun mungkin tak siap-siap lagi. Btw, saya try untuk main game “Conquest of Putrajaya” tu di FB apps semalam, tapi tak tahu button mana satu nak tekan kalau pakai keyboard. Maklumlah saya ni noob benda-benda baru ni. Memang kreatif la pencipta game ni. Tapi kalau saya tak silap, team selection DAP vs BN. Tak nampak pula bendera PR atau komponen lain.
Rabbit | March 8, 2013 at 8:17 am
What? No Sabahan politician? I will sue the developer.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 6:51 am
While I loved the pictures which seems like something out of a Terance Malick flick, I have an outlier (when it comes to this blog) position of March 08′.
On the whole I am glad it happened. I support anything that shakes vested interest and makes people question the status quo. I may not agree with the alternatives and some times feel that what we are offered is the same shit with a different shovel, but this is one of the few good things that has happened in the Malaysian political scene in a long time.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 10:09 am
re: “shakes vested interest and makes people question the status quo”
das ist gut
“offered is the same shit with a different shovel”
Now we know … Shovel #1 smells but that’s after scooping shit for 55 years, Shovel #2 stinks and this is only after 5 years
re: “but this is one of the few good things that has happened in the Malaysian political scene”
Yes, it had to happen to give us the basis for comparison. If March 8 hadn’t happened, we wouldn’t have known what the oppo were really capable of
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 11:29 am
The thing is Helen, I do not really know what the Opposition is capable of. I am willing to go the distance and see what Federal power does to them. I already know what Federal power has done to BN.
But most days when it comes to (Malaysian) partisan politics, I feel like Rorschach from the Watchmen …”and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.”
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 11:34 am
Look at what state level power has done to LGE and his cohorts.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 11:41 am
Eh? No worse then what it did to the people they replaced and in many ways those who lost had it coming.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 11:43 am
As a virus, Pakatan is a more virulent strain. Only 5 years and already.
The International Jew | March 8, 2013 at 12:20 pm
it took PR just 5 years but BN needed 55 years to get to this current level of perversity. so on the score of efficiency, PR win hands down. so the choice is obvious.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Yes, “efficiency” is the keyword.
They will be more efficient at corruption.
They will be more efficient at covering up their corruption.
They are already much, much more efficient at brainwashing their supporters into believing that it’s quite impossible for the DAP politicians to be corrupt.
Salhas | March 8, 2013 at 7:39 am
Looks like the entrance to hell. Those coconut trees in the distance are unmistakeably Zamboangga, the headquarters of Misuari, the corrupted former Governor of Muslim Mindanao whose economic programme for his people centred around kidnapping of foreigners and pillaging neighbours and distributing funds from Manila amongst his cronies, leaving his people to eke out a living from coconut small holdings and selling seaweed to the nearest Chinese shopkeeper.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 11:51 am
I just do not see it that way but then again I am not filled with partisan zeal, with the exception of certain issues. If I do vote this time it would be for Pakatan.
Barisan had its chance and now they need to be benched. Once Malaysians get into the habit of holding their political parties accountable the sooner those parties will realize that its not our gratitude but their hard work which will keep them in power. I would have no problem kicking out PR after one term.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Not so easy to kick out once they’ve hooked on to power. e.g. Under BN previously, there was no CMI (Chief Minister Incorporated) in Penang nor MBI (Menteri Besar Incorporated) in Selangor. Once in office, the Pakatan pollies have quickly created new agencies to give themselves more power.
There’s the Komtar 28th floor cabal, for instance.
Under BN, there was no Buletin Mutiara in Penang or Selangor Times. One might argue that these state propaganda tools were created b’cos Pakatan did not have access to federal propaganda tools like BTN or RTM.
But examine how they USE power when it is in their hands. This will lend an insight into the kind of people they are.
Buletin Mutiara featured 50 photos of LGE and his wife in a single 28-page edition. Selangor Times must needs have the evangelistas featured every week without fail and as a propaganda sheet, it’s a worse rag than any of the papers that the Dapsters like to criticize.
When pointed out, the Dapsters will give the excuse that ST does not have a national reach unlike the mainstream media. But the paper is distributed at the mosques during Friday prayer. Again this move shows the length (opportunism) they will go to and the distance between their talk and their walk.
Those who voted Pakatan in Penang and Selangor in 2008, let’s say now in 2013 after one term, they want to kick out LGE and his parachutists, or the DAP mafia who’ve sunk their claws into the underworld — but it cannot be done. DAP will remain in power in Penang and Pakatan most likely in S’gor.
Doubtless the BN imposes its version of the national narrative and this is labelled indoctrination. But compare the behaviour of the Dapsters and the PASters as a manifestation and reflection of brainwashing.
If the spindoctors accuse this or that BN personality is a murderer, the Dapsters will believe. Dapsters do not need proof to swallow hook, line and sinker any outrageous allegation levelled against BN. But turn the tables, and when convincing proof is provided to back up allegations against Pakatan, they will adamantly reject and start with their hysteria (conspiracy theories, etc).
When BN suffered losses in 2008, their defeats were inflicted by the Umno voters themselves.
In 2013, it’s hard to imagine that DAP supporters can punish their party the way some of the Malays punished Umno, and to a greater extent the BN supporters of the other races punished Gerakan, MCA and MIC.
It’s the mind-hold which Pakatan exerts that is dangerous because the grip is through the politics of hate. Very intense hate as shown by all the insulting name-calling that they’re capable of.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Arguing one form of hypocrisy over another does not a credible argument make. After all as far as legitimizing control through institutions, it was Mahathir that claimed that gerrymandering was an acceptable political tool for example.
The BN/UMNO levels of bureaucracy and the years it took to cultivate them far outweighs those of the Opposition as if the argument is that PR would do the same thing, but we should still vote for BN, than this is a morally bankrupt argument.
I see very little difference in the so-called brainwashing of PR and the propaganda of UMNO. BTN courses, the MSM ect are mirrors of the tactics PR uses and good for PR. If the argument is that these Rovian tactics are despicable and should not be used by any side, then I would agree with you
However, if the complaint is that one side is using more effectively than the other is in a medium, which they have conquered because, they do not have access to the federal propaganda organs, then I would say, that is politics. Deal with it.
RPK always argues that it was the Chinese that sustained Mahathir/BN all these years. The propaganda you perceive that holds sway over the Chinese community as evidenced by their online conduct is misleading.
The Chinese community is just as frustrated with BN as they are enamored by the DAP and to claim that this frustration is merely the politics of hate is disingenuous.
You may not believe that DAP supporters could punish the DAP as UMNO supporters did but you forget that the reason that the DAP is in ascendance is because the Chinese community abandoned the MCA which they perceived as a lame duck. Once a precedent is set it is difficult to break.
Moreover, the only reason the DAP holds sway now in PR is because PAS and PKR do not have the Malay vote locked down. If there is a shift and there very well might be, the Chinese within the DAP will not have as much influence as they do now and this would make it easier to shift allegiance when pragmatism comes a calling.
Pakatan Rakyat did not create the politics of hate. It was always there nurtured by UMNO/BN. The only thing PR has done extremely well is to reflect it back at BN.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm
It boils down to the dangerous behaviour of the mob.
BN supporters hardly believe their leaders to be angels. They bite the bullet in that they’re opting for the lesser of the two evils.
e.g. Khir Toyo has been convicted of corruption. His career is over. When he was sentenced, you didn’t get crowds of Umno people packing the courtroom clamouring for his reinstatement in politics.
On the other hand, we don’t hear the DAP supporters demanding that either the party disciplinary committee or the MACC get to the bottom of the Kelantan logging land concessions awarded to the Perak warlords.
Nor do we do hear the LGE worshippers questioning the wisdom of a multi-billion undersea tunnel to be constructed and the project greenlighted even when no EIA has been done.
For Pakatan supporters, their leaders walk on water.
They claim the moral high ground which is hypocrisy b’cos anything that the BN does, they do the same. One most recent example: Najib was derided as “demeaning himself” when he played the Chinese drum in CNY advert. Shortly after, ST featured Azmin on its front page doing the same.
The BN carries out indoctrination, the Pakatan carries out brainwashing but the Pakatan practise double standards all the time. When the BN does it (indoctrination or any other thing) it’s wrong. When they themselves do it, they will pretzel to declare that it’s justifiable. The frogging episodes are case in point.
re: “DAP is in ascendance is because the Chinese community abandoned the MCA which they perceived as a lame duck. Once a precedent is set it is difficult to break.”
The MCA’s duck is cooked.
re: “Moreover, the only reason the DAP holds sway now in PR is because PAS and PKR do not have the Malay vote locked down. If there is a shift and there very well might be, the Chinese within the DAP will not have as much influence as they do now …”
PAS and PKR have already lost a bulk of the Malay vote which has moved back to Umno.
DAP holds sway now because it has 29 MPs (to PAS and PKR’s 23 each) and it has 85 Aduns compared to PAS’s 84 and PKR’s 43.
After GE13, DAP will have even more MPs and Aduns whereas PAS will have a lot fewer and PKR Malay candidates will lose too (its Chinese candidates may still win).
Therefore the future of Pakatan over the next 5 years election cycle is writ large in Dapsterism.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Re: Mob behavior, biting the bullet and the lesser of two
Actually choosing the lesser of two evils is not confined to
BN supporters. Behind the feel good rhetoric there is
always the idea that PR is the lesser of two evils especially
or should that be ironically when it comes to the question of
Pas attempting to claim the middle ground and DAPster cavorting in mosques is an example of this. As far as mob behaviour is concerned PERKASA and the kind of resistance PR encounters in the heartland is the kind of behaviour that BN inspires.
Re.Khir Toyo and the mentality of PR supporters
There was nobody clamoring for his reinstatement because UMNO abandoned him because of his lame duck status.
In fact, I would argue the only reason why he was sacrificed was because he became an embarrassment to the UMNO powers that be.
As far as the MACC is concerned, I do not see BN supporters jumping up and down for investigation into the numerous scandals that infect the coalition, in fact what they normally do is point to the scandals of PR or claim that they are being fitnah-ed online.
I would argue that it is irrelevant even if they did. The same goes for PR supporters.
It is incumbent on the MACC to investigate allegations of corruption and present credible evidence and not for supporters of coalitions to demand that they do.
Well to be honest if people were principled and nonaligned they would as I would and I assume you would, but party supporters, c’mon…..
Re. Pakatan leaders walking on water and indoctrination
You argue as if Pakatan is the only ones who claim the moral high ground. Both UMNO and PAS claim that they represent Islam and voting for the other is unIslamic.
And really each side accuses the other of brainwashing the public through their respective propaganda organs. Anwar is a traitor and splitting the Malay vote is an example of hypocrisy esp since this charge is usually added with “working with the Chinese to achieve his goals”.
Really? What the hell was UMNO doing with the MCA all these decades not to mention it is the definition of the BN racial formula.
If there is a difference then it would be that Pakatan supporters think their leaders walk on water whereas BN (UMNO) leaders think they actually can walk on water with all the bluster of only they being able to protect Malay rights and Islam.
Re. Malay vote and Dapsterism
Well yes. This is why the DAPsters are holding sway now. I think the Malay vote may swing while you are convinced that UMNO has already locked it down.
My point was that if it swings to PKR’s and PAS’s advantage then the level of Dapstermism would be tempered, you think otherwise.
If UMNO were convinced of the Malay vote then it would not have a problem pulling the election trigger since MCA and the MIC are dead weight. I think it could either way but I am not convinced that PR could take Putrajaya.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 2:33 pm
Re: “Pas attempting to claim the middle ground”
The centre cannot hold if it does. Witness the flip-flop — ‘Isu bukan Islam guna kalimah Allah: Dulu sokong kini bantah’ (Berita Harian, 15 Jan 2013)
And then, a month and a half later, another sidestepping. “The Kelantan mentri besar, however, maintained that the term cannot be translated to mean ‘God’ or ‘Lord’.” (TMI, 1 March 2013
Keep your eye on the ball, okay. The TMI headline reads, ‘Nik Aziz maintains ‘Allah’ can be used by non-Muslims’. (1) Christian can use ‘Allah’ BUT (2) cannot use ‘Allah’ to mean God or Lord. See the inherent contradiction? It’s irreconcilable, just like the Pakatan unholy matrimony.
re: “and DAPster cavorting in mosques is an example of this [claiming the middle ground]”
I disagree. DAP cavorting in mosques is moving the Chinese electorate into PAS-type religious politics. The ones doing the cavorting are religious extremists.
Hannah Yeoh – the mosque cavorter – has declared that “if they [voters] do not want to change, if they continue to tolerate unrighteousness, they cannot enter the Promised Land. […] Vote for righteous leaders…”. How different is this from ‘Pangkah PAS, masuk syurga’?
re: “As far as mob behaviour is concerned PERKASA and the kind of resistance PR encounters in the heartland is the kind of behaviour that BN inspires.”
Perkasa’s mob behaviour is physical. Dapster mob behaviour is verbal. Perkasa would physically constrain the freedom of movement of their opponents. Dapsters would through their DAP Super Cyberbullying constrain the freedom of expression of their opponents (follow the travails of Ellese in the ABU blog).
(a) It’s difficult for Perkasa to ride the moral high horse that they’re defending any form of freedom of expression. (b) But Dapsters make as if they are the champions of free speech and fair media.
The thing is enough Pakatoons believe that (b) really is.
re: “reason why he was sacrificed was because he became an embarrassment to the UMNO powers that be”
Khir Toyo suffered a backlash from the Malay public (themselves) esp. over the broom incident. On a parallel track, do the DAP evangelista pollies, when they do something equally bad (cause someone to be humiliated), receive any backlash from their own?
Take Nga’s “hitam metalik’ and ‘haram jadah’ jibes. The DAP derision of mamaks is consonant with their constituency.
re: “It is incumbent on the MACC to investigate allegations of corruption and present credible evidence and not for supporters of coalitions to demand that they do.”
But sustained public pressure will force compliance. This pressure (demanding that the powers-that-be take action) was exerted in the TBH case where the authorities had to accede to an RCI.
re: “Well to be honest if people were principled and nonaligned they would as I would and I assume you would, but party supporters, c’mon…..”
Precisely my point about the destructive behaviour of the party supporters. In the case of Shahrizat’s cows, there was undoubtedly the spin trying to defend her but half the Umno Malays were disgusted and some quarters (pro-establishment Malay writers/bloggers) spoke up against her.
Is it possible that half the DAP Chinese will be disgusted by the Ngeh-Nga logging land case? Will anti-establishment Chinese/Christian writers/bloggers speak up against Ngeh and Nga? Or against Guan Eng over the sPICE and Bayan Mutiara land deals? And now over the tunnel-swap-for-land project?
Re: “Both UMNO and PAS claim that they represent Islam and voting for the other is unIslamic.”
Yes but PAS is parti Islam and the slogan of Umno is ‘Untuk Agama, Bangsa dan Negara’.
DAP on the other hand claims to be a secular party but it is claiming that BN is the anti-Christ (message during the Sibu by-election campaign) and that voting for BN is unrighteous in the eyes of God. Look up LGE’s ‘talks’ on YouTube when he is speaking specifically to the Christian groups.
re: “What the hell was UMNO doing with the MCA all these decades not to mention it is the definition of the BN racial formula.”
All these decades, PAS has accused Umno of being kafir for working with MCA. Well, now PAS is sleeping with DAP, so the kafir trope has been conveniently shelved. It’s the hypocrisy and double-standards. Much thicker among the Pakatan b’cos at least BN admits to its Race formula.
re: “If there is a difference then it would be that Pakatan supporters think their leaders walk on water whereas BN (UMNO) leaders think they actually can walk on water with all the bluster of only they being able to protect Malay rights and Islam.”
BN leaders delude themselves that they are this-and-that. Pakatan leaders successfully delude their hordes of zombies that they can accomplish this-and-that.
BN leaders yell charge, and nobody follows. CSL is a general without any lieutenants and foot soldiers. LGE has got a human chain formed around him when he walks into a dinner venue. The security is to protect him from fans and admirers!
To me the mass delusion is far more dangerous than a leader’s self-delusion.
Re: “If UMNO were convinced of the Malay vote then it would not have a problem pulling the election trigger …”
Google ‘Selena Tay’ and her prediction every fortnight the last two years on the election date. It’s the Pakatan supporters who keep trying to force Najib’s hand to call the election.
For me, I support the inertia of dragging it to the very end. More time for Pakatan to shoot themselves in the foot. Time favours BN, y’see. The Allah controversy that has hurt Pakatan since Christmas is one illustration of this theory.
The International Jew | March 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm
its not difficult to kick out PR after one term. but it will be difficult to undo the damage PR did since, in terms of perversity, PR is A grade.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 12:25 pm
LGE cannot be kicked out from Penang after one term. He is worshipped like a tokong there.
forrrestcat | March 8, 2013 at 12:56 pm
I am already working adult, whoever wins would not make such an impact on me, but I do agree with Conrad, let the young uns suffer for five years… my grandmother had her WW2 Japanese beheadings and rape stories, my generation the financial crashes of 1998, the Reformasi experiences to tell.. the coming generation may have 5 years of Tokong and Anugerah Tuhan stories to tell their young ins.
The Jap had change of political power briefly ala PR kick BN in 2008-2012, it didnt do amazing thing to the Japanese economy let alone democracy but what thing it is observed it helps to reduce the govt power.
Frankly, I think good time to change power is when the super old statesmen like Mahathir, Anwar (not that old but been around long enough) and Nik Aziz move on as they are dividing/controversial figures as much as they inspire.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 5:55 pm
Response to Helen Ang #21
Re: The [Islamic] center cannot hold
This remains to be seen. Whereas there was consensus over the “Allah” issue when it came to Pakatan until LGE’s shit stirring and a reticence in UMNO in fast tracking the appeal (the rhetoric now has changed), the middle ground is still PAS’s to claim.
The internal discontent with the rise of the so-called Endrogan’s is indicative that this close to power, PAS understands that the door to Putrajaya is only opened by the middle ground key.
In addition, flip-flopping is not anathema to the success of a coalition seeking power. UMNO/BN has done its share of flip-flopping over the years. Right now political pundits marvel at how Najib says something and his cohorts do another.
This flip-flopping whether it is on policies matters or internal UMNO matters is part of how things seem to be going in this country. MCA and MIC seems to be playing from their own playbook and the political process seems like something out of Alice in Wonderland.
Re: Moving the Chinese into PAS type religious politics
The Chinese not to mention Malaysians were moved into extremist religious politics in the UMNO years. My whole argument in my PAS/UMNO post was that Islam had been used as a political tool to control the Malay polity and Hannah Yeoh’s type of religious politics is a reaction to this.
Hannah is preaching to the converted and I doubt her religious polemics has any deeper hold of the Chinese community unless the point is that the whole of the Chinese community all over Malaysia has since 08’ embraced Evangelical Christianity.
Yeoh’s rhetoric is merely one expression of many (the one that for obvious reasons gets the most play) of the dissatisfaction that the Chinese community feels towards UMNO/BN.
Now, you may argue that the DAP is becoming a religious party what with all the nutjobs that seem to infect the party but I would argue that the same can be said of UMNO which proclaims that it values Islamic morals but engages in the most pecuniary of con jobs.
In other words in the end money always trumps God, as evidenced by LGE capitalistic tendencies which the majority of Chinese would subscribe to if not his party’s sudden Christian zeal
Re: Constraining freedom of expression PERKASA vs. DAPster
The reason why DAPsters and not PERKASA can claim the moral high ground is because
(1) PERKASA is the mouthpiece of a political party that has in its place laws that restrict freedom of expression such as the ISA, the Printing Press act etc. They are the natural extension of controlling the discourse through racial rhetoric – criticizing public institutions means criticizing the Malay community – that UMNO/BN has practiced all these years.
They seem to be immune from the very laws that were put in place to ensure national harmony was maintained at the expense of freedom of expression and in many cases PERKASA argues for such restrictions.
(2) Cyber bullying happens on the internet which is the wild west of freedom of expression. Nothing is stopping UMNO/BN from engaging in the same behavior and indeed UMNO/BN has always been at a loss as to how to firm up support for its own cyber bullying squads. In typical UMNO/BN fashion, the solution is for calls to censor the internet.
All these years UMNO/BN controlled the discourse in the mainstream media and now they have no idea of how to mount a coherent counter attack on their political adversaries using a medium which is becoming or is an indispensable tool in politics.
I would even argue that the state propaganda organs of PR is fair play in this political arena but the real litmus test when it comes to freedom of expression is when or if PR assumes power and repeals those restrictive UMNO/BN laws.
Until then they may not exactly have the right for the moral high ground but they can make a decent argument of occupying it.
Re: Khir Toyo and the broom backlash.
I do not find it credible that he suffered a backlash because of the broom incident. If the Malay community were so easily moved, they would have voted out Malay leaders who offended their sensibilities years ago. Mahathir for instance has mocked the shit out of them but some in the Malay community revere him.
No, I think Khir and his “zero opposition” stance underestimated the rancor that many in Selangor felt. It was a combination of events that led to his undoing but I think, UMNO allowed him to wonder of the reservation because he became a political liability because his scandals and his grudge (can’t recall at the moment) with another influential UMNO member.
This most probably sealed his fate. I do not understand the arcane formula that UMNO uses to judge and reward loyalty because there have been many lost sheep over the years who have been allowed to return to the UMNO fold while others have not.
As for the Ngah’s racist quotes, the argument was never if the DAP was not racist. Certainly, they are but so are many politicians in this country. For some odd reason UMNO sanctions some and allows others a free ride. I do wish to see DAP politicians suffer the same if random reckonings.
Re: Public pressure and the MACC
Public pressure is part of it and it is channeled through the propaganda organs of the various parties. If UMNO/BN cannot muster enough support to organize such campaigns whose fault is that? However, the MACC does not need public pressure to carry out its functions. In fact, they have received numerous reports from both sides of the political divide without much fanfare.
Their job is to investigate and discover which complaints are credible and which are not. But like most institutions in this country it suffers from credibility issues most often by its own rhetoric and conduct.
Re: The silence of cows
Sharizat is a problematic example. Pro establishment bloggers who condemned her were most probably part of the internal feud that she was a part of in her role of wanita umno head. Sharizat made a number of enemies and her scandal was payback. It would be difficult to separate genuine altruistic calls for head and the messy retribution of UMNO politics.
Actually S.Thayaparan Commander (rtd) wrote a very interesting response to UMNO’s disciplinary councils comments of her in a letter to the Sun. My Google Fu is weak but I will attempt to discover it later.
As for the DAP’s alleged corruption and the lack of Chinese opprobrium, I think if the MACC were to launch an investigation into the alleged misdoings and something on the scale of the cow gate saga is exposed, then I think we can judge for certain instead of drawing problematic analogies with UMNO’s misconduct and the response to it.
Re: BN is the anti-Christ and UMNO/PAS Islam.
The distinction you make between PAS and UMNO is meaningless. I mean my whole argument in the UMNO/PAS retro Malay post was that
the influence of Islam in this country has been defined by UMNO and the moderate stand was given up by UMNO a long time ago.
In its recent general assembly UMNO claimed that it was a party chosen by God which contradicts its “Untuk Agama, Bangsa dan Negara” slogan and firmly places it in the terrain of PAS. As for the DAP’s loss of secularism, I agree but then again if everyone is playing the religious card why not them?
Is it hypocritical, why yes it is, but I think for many people secularism means living without the UMNO religious threat hanging over their heads. Is teaming up with PAS a good way to achieve this? Maybe. If PAS wants to ever run this country and a fractured Malaysian, polity defines the middle ground.
Re. Kafir trope.
On this, I agree with you whole heartedly.
Re: Mass delusion.
LGE walks around with a chain of supporters around him because the rhetoric against him translates to physical threats. Nurul Izaah walks around with her supporters because the same is leveled against her. It is disingenuous to claim that protection such as this amounts to mob delusion and the same cannot be said of UMNO.
If PR supporters were as violent to UMNO politicians, the full weight of the law would come down on them. In fact, I would argue that this is exactly what UMNO wants.
UMNO politicians don’t need protection because they realize that any attempt of violence like the kind thrown PR’s way would be met with the full force of the law. If UMNO leaders yell charge and nobody follows maybe it because they are not worth following. I can tell you this was not always the case.
Re: Election date and dragging it to the end.
Well if this Lahad Datu incursion is any indication, maybe the Malay vote will shift back to UMNO in a big way. I do not think the 15% will get any new followers. The same applies to the Allah issue. Perhaps the only party that would benefit is UMNO.
The MIC and MCA would certainly not benefit in any way. But then again maybe not. I certainly did not foresee the tsunami of March 8 and the variables that were at play.
Maybe the longer this drag on the petty feuding within UMNO intensifies Anwar firms up his support with his moles within UMNO and PAS makes a determined play for the heartland. Who knows?
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 6:54 pm
I shall have to respond to you in parts.
Was a quarter way through typing, then my mouse ate my text.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 7:09 pm
re: “Whereas there was consensus over the ‘Allah’ issue when it came to Pakatan until LGE’s shit stirring …”
Nope. There was an ‘agree to disagree’ with the PAS ulamas initially agreeing to keep their objections under the lid. After the LGE X’mas challenge, the Majlis Syura had to countermand the political accommodation made earlier by TGNA & TGHA.
re: “The internal discontent with the rise of the so-called Endrogan’s is indicative that this close to power, PAS understands that the door to Putrajaya is only opened by the middle ground key.”
The Majlis Syura final decision shut out the [‘middle’] I prefer the word ‘shared’ ground occupied by the Erdogans with evangelists.
re: “Islam had been used as a political tool to control the Malay polity and Hannah Yeoh’s type of religious politics is a reaction to this.”
And that is why she is a menace.
re: “unless the point is that the whole of the Chinese community all over Malaysia has since 08’ embraced Evangelical Christianity”
The DAP is recruiting Hannah clones. Google “Yeo Bee Yin’, the party’s new recruit tasked with leading their cyber campaign. Ong Kian Ming also speaks at big time (meaning with CEOs, e.g. Ayamas founder) Christian fellowship events.
re: “Now, you may argue that the DAP is becoming a religious party what with all the nutjobs that seem to infect the party but I would argue that the same can be said of UMNO …”
Die lor, like that. After GE13, Umno gonna come out top dog and DAP second top dog. Perang salib lawan perang jihad, nih.
re: “in the end money always trumps God, as evidenced by LGE capitalistic tendencies which the majority of Chinese would subscribe to if not his party’s sudden Christian zeal”
The Prosperity Gospel manages to merge the two so that they can be Calvinist capitalistic and at the same time still regard themselves as emissaries of Elohim (temporary name until they win the battle to call the Christian God ‘A****’ just like Hannah Yeoh’s older child is a “Chinese for the time being” until her mother succeeds in bending the NRD to her will.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 7:30 pm
re: “The reason why DAPsters and not PERKASA can claim the moral high ground”
I’m giving you a Munch scream, like the one in my avatar.
re: “PERKASA is the mouthpiece of a political party that has in its place laws that restrict freedom of expression such as the ISA, the Printing Press act etc.”
Am not sure how far the actual process has reached but ISA is (agreed to be) repealed and it was Najib’s Umno that consented to do this.
re: “[Perkasa] seem to be immune from the very laws that were put in place to ensure national harmony was maintained at the expense of freedom of expression”
LGE is single-handedly more damaging than Perkasa. The number of police reports against him on the charge of hasutan must be a pile high, and they’ve been filed by Buddhists (for menghasut in his Wesak day message), for menghasut on Hindu temples, for so many menghasuts. And he got jailed for menghasut, not for “defending the modesty of a Malay girl”.
re: “Cyber bullying happens on the internet which is the wild west of freedom of expression. Nothing is stopping UMNO/BN from engaging in the same behavior …”
Like I always like to say, the question that should be asked is: “What kind of people are they?” Tak kan you want Umno to match the DAP Super Cyberbullies in sinking to their low.
re: “I would even argue that the state propaganda organs of PR is fair play in this political arena but the real litmus test when it comes to freedom of expression is when or if PR assumes power and repeals those restrictive UMNO/BN laws.”
You print lah, if you dare you print lah and then you see what I do to you / Gag order here, gag order there …
re: “Until then they may not exactly have the right for the moral high ground but they can make a decent argument of occupying it.”
Google Dr Looi’s online experience over the Lynas issue. He called them the “Red Guards”. They would be more at home occupying the killing fields of Cambodia.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 7:44 pm
re: “I do not find it credible that he suffered a backlash because of the broom incident. If the Malay community were so easily moved, they would have voted out Malay leaders who offended their sensibilities years ago.”
It’s bigger than just the actual individuals who were recipients of the broom. It was a slap in the face of the Malay civil service, so Umno lost their vote. Also it’s against Malay adab untuk mengaibkan seseorang itu secara terang-terangan like that.
Of course there were other factors in combination too. I didn’t claim the the broom incident was the sole reason.
re: “If UMNO/BN cannot muster enough support to organize such campaigns [like TBH’s] whose fault is that?”
Ahmad Sarbani also ‘fell’ out the window of the dangerous MACC building. The Dapster “perpetual hysteria” has something to do with the differences in response.
I’m not advocating a non-response by the public to the TBH homicide but I’m making a comparison between the responses to the two deaths. Could PKR and PAS have whipped up the same level of racial response as DAP did over TBH?
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm
re: “As for the DAP’s alleged corruption and the lack of Chinese opprobrium”
The taker of the bribe is condemned but not the giver of the bribe, like in traffic offences and other greasing of the palm to acquire permits and contracts, etc. What does that tell you about the race associated with giving bribes?
Re: “In its recent general assembly UMNO claimed that it was a party chosen by God”
Aiyah, one Umno Youth office holder said so when he had the rostrum. Some PAS Adun or MP (not sure which) also called on his party members to vote a fellow Muslim (and Malay presumably) over his coalition partners kafir candidates.
Re: “As for the DAP’s loss of secularism, I agree but then again if everyone is playing the religious card why not them?”
That is where we have to draw the line. What’s the point of having DAP or the oppo in power if in the process of their consolidating and increasing their power they up the ante on the religious card, which I see that they’re doing with traipsing into mosques, dsitributing CNY oranges in mosques, holding buka puasa in mosques and printing Biblical verses on CNY angpows.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Here’s the last one of the batches interrupted by dinner.
Re: “LGE walks around with a chain of supporters around him because the rhetoric against him translates to physical threats. … It is disingenuous to claim that protection such as this amounts to mob delusion…”
I wasn’t being sarcastic when I mentioned the human chain to protect him from fans and admirers. I mean these fans and admirers in the literal sense of the word, i.e. Dapsters who worship the ground he walks on and would mob him the way Hong Kong and Korean pop stars are mobbed.
Anwar is called ‘anugerah tuhan’. There are those who actually call LGE “god’s gift” and other hyperboles that make me cringe.
In my comment, I had said “dinner venue” which nowadays means usually at restaurants and for paying (ticketed) diners. Now if Perkasa or Umno Youth groupies want to kacau him, they would do so at public forums in the padang, not at dinner venues where they have to pay and some more not guaranteed of halal food.
We were informed that a recent Subang Jaya fundraising dinner held in a four-star joint featuring him had cost the Jerusubangites RM150 per pax.
Re: Lahad Datu
9/11 helped Bush and the Republicans. The Sabah situation likely to benefit Umno.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 10:56 pm
Just so that my response is complete before the next round which may be delayed.
RE: LGE groupies and hero-worship of Opposition politicians
As far as this phenomenon is concerned, I do not really see the problem. The cult of personality of politicians is not something new, maybe new in Malaysia but not something that causes me much loss of sleep. I understand the need for protection at public speaking events and adoration of groupies that throng to him in Hong Kong fashion at private ones.
I am sure that there is an “Obama effect” when it comes to these Opposition politicians, as I am sure [they] will feel a sense of disappointment when these politicians cannot deliver on what they promised.
However, my feeling is that all this is magnified because of this prolonged foreplay election period.
Once the dust settles I am sure people will regain their senses and go “wtf were we thinking” much like how the Obama effect wore off after his first term.
Now one could argue that this would mean a loss of objectivity when it comes to the issue but the reality is that objectivity has no real place in partisan politics and most people are blinded for a variety of reasons when it comes to the coalition of their choice.
I think you may have the right of it but who knows. The anti UMNO sentiment may be inflamed if the situation drags on and UMNO loses its grip on the propaganda war concerning LD.
Looking back at my response to the difference in responses between the deaths of TBH and Sabrani, what I missed was the
conflicted response from the Malay community that is divided.
The Chinese reacted as one but the Malays were torn between their partisan obligations. This too is also a factor in the “disparity” of the responses between the two deaths.
Conrad | March 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm
Helen, I will respond in one block of text, sorry-lah more convenient for me. I may take some time with my next set of responses but I will get back to you. This has been very interesting for me. Thanks.
Re: Agree to disagree
This is a perfectly acceptable form of consensus and enjoys a long tradition in disparate political alliances. I would argue that the MCA and UMNO did this pretty well in the past but unfortunately for whatever reason the dynamic changed.
Re: Shared ground occupied by Endrogans and /evangelists.
I would not disagree with this definition. Both religious groups seek power and it is up to them to decide on how to go about making acceptable compromises. Both groups have to withstand not only external pressure but also internal conflicts. I would rather these divisions be apparent than the sub rosa maneuverings of the BN groupings.
Re: Hannah Yeoh and DAP recruiting Hannah clones.
While she may be a menace I do not see anything wrong with the DAP recruiting more people like her. In fact I wish the MCA had its version of Hannah Yeoh as a counter balance. As you know I abhor the religious card being played but that deck, has already been shuffled and dealt.
Re: UMNO top dog and DAP second top dog.
Already in a war-lah. If the Malays do not bite the bullet and wholly endorse UMNO (and give it its two thirds majority (still possible without the non-Malays right? You would have more knowledge and experience with this) or PKR/PAS then UMNO will be weak, so it would be a top wounded dog and the DAP will be a noisy miniature Doberman.
Re: Prosperity gospel
Yeah I am down with what you wrote except I think the Evangelists overestimate the whole Allah issues. I will have more to say when I organize my thoughts on this subject.
Re. Munch scream.
I am pointing at you and screaming like Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978).
Re: Repealing the ISA
I have no idea if UMNO is serious about this. If it is a bait and switch like the Sedition act and the National Harmony act, this does more damage than good.
Re: Perkasa, LGE, and menghasut
Law suits filed by either side does not mean you can quantify who is the bigger threat.
Re: Cyber bullying and what kind of people they are
UMNO already sinks to lows unimaginable in the mainstream media. You are damn right I want them to counter the propaganda thrown their way.
Truth is defense-lah. If you print lies then you suffer the consequences. That is why you need cyber bullies to propagate your point of view. Still way, better than being detained under the ISA (“for her own protection”)
Re. Dr. Looi
Agreed with you on this point but this still does not mean that they can’t make a credible argument for occupying the moral high ground especially in the context of freedom of expression and the laws constraining it in Malaysia.
I mean UMNO goons or was it PERKASA harassed Karpal in front of parliament when he is wheel chair bound, I would put this in the same league as cyber bullying.
Re: Ahmad Sarbani and whipping up response.
As to your question. The reason why PAS/PKR cannot frame it as a racial response as the TBH case, is because Sarbani’s death was Malay against Malay violence. Furthermore I think the propaganda organs makes a difference. THE DAP has the Star and the alternative press. What has PAS and PKR have?
For instance, UMNO propaganda organs can whip up racial sentiment and disseminate it widely. Therefore, how loud the response is also depends on the medium the Opposition controls.
Re: Chines opprobrium and bribe taking
Cherry picking quotes ain’t the way to go. If you have an example in the league of the cow gate scandal and the lack of Chinese/DAP response to such, please cough it up.
Re: Party of God.
Therefore, yeah, you agree that there is not much difference in the rhetoric of UMNO and PAS. This was my point. The point is not that nutjobs from either side make individual statements but rather said statements passed unremarked upon by the majority. In situations like these silence means consent.
Re: DAP and upping the ante
I do not see why we have to draw the line. On the other hand, at least the line you are drawing is not something I agree with. I am a secularist in the strict sense of the term, so I do not for one minute buy the crap the DAP is shoveling.
However it (upping the ante) is only reckless if the DAP were alone in this and so far they have the backing of PAS and PKR. I see more internal discussions of Islam within the Muslim because these issues are being pushed and I think this is a good thing.
Helen Ang | March 8, 2013 at 10:14 pm
Was out for dinner so actually I hadn’t finished my reply to your previous. One more chunk of text to go.
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