Posted in Evangelista Bintang Tiga

Anwar’s fatwa and the mysterious missing hadith

Blogger Oik65 is perplexed. He tried looking for the hadith that Anwar Ibrahim is referring to with regard to child conversion to Islam but could not find it anywhere.

Can anyone help Oik please? Recommended reading ‘Oik65’s blog‘.

For a backgrounder to the Anwar fatwa, read the Anwar herald — Terence Netto: ‘Anwar’s intervention frees conversion debate from bind‘ (Malaysiakini, 3 July 2013)

The same Terence Netto-Malaysiakini article can also be accessed for free (without subscription) @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bmalaysia/message/92935

I think every Malaysian should try to read Terence Netto at least once in his lifetime.

Consider this – i.e. read the aforementioned Netto article – as my challenge to you, just like how I’m challenged to try bungee jumping at least once (no way Jose!) or to ride a roller-coaster (no, I won’t either).

But you do please give Netto a read.

A bonus recommendation – for readers of this blog – is a short article by Oik65 on the “ploy that politicians often use when caught in sticky situations”.

Oik65 is in this instance referring to the ruse used by the Lim Father & Son who crafted a “carefully worded denial”. See Oik HERE.

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

26 thoughts on “Anwar’s fatwa and the mysterious missing hadith

    1. Jadi pihak yang bukan Islam langsung tiada hak? Tanggungjawab pada pasangan bukan Islam berakhir pada saat bila pasangan memeluk agama Islam?
      This is where Islam is seen as ‘unfair’ and intimidating against non Muslim.
      Because we know in Malaysia, the Syariah court will be biased against the non Muslim, some spouse decide to convert to Muslim last minute and convert their children as well in order to gain the custody of the chidlren and relieve their responsibility to their spouse. If this is what the UMNO Malays want, then this is an utter insult to the religion Islam which do not force people into their religion.

      1. Yes, that is pretty much the consensus view. To Muslims, Islam is the one true path, so from their point of view what is most beneficial for the children is to prevent them from straying from this path. It may seem unfair to the non-Muslims, but it is what it is.

        Given that we are a multiracial country, it may not be a good idea to adopt the Islamic view on this and make it into law. After all, there are already so many other areas where our laws don’t agree with Islamic law.

        The problem with Anwar is that he is misrepresenting what Islam says to suit his own political agenda. If he is against the Bill he should just say it is because he thinks it is unfair and leave Islam out of it.

        1. Pandangan yg waras. Dahulu kita memandang sinis Indonesia yang dalam keluarganya ada Islam, ada Kristian, ada Buddha, ada Hindu malah ada yang tidak beragama. Malaysia harus memutuskan adakah kita mahu jadi seperti di Indonesia? Atau menjadi Islam sepenuhnya dgn memperhebatkan Islamisasi. Dlm sejarah kerajaan2 Islam nampaknya yang mengalah adalah orang bukan Islam kerana Islam itu adalah tinggi dan tiada yang lebih tinggi daripadanya. Daripada ketuanan Melayu kita akan berubah kepada ketuanan Islam. Perlu diingat bahawa definisi Melayu adalah mereka yang mengamalkan Islam dan adat Melayu. Melayu itu bukan orang yang lahir drp keluarga Melayu. Jadi secara teknikal Ridhuan Tee adalah Melayu dan begitu juga Ann Wan Seng. Begitulah salah satu cara hendak mengislamkan seluruh Malaysia. Sama seperti yang diamalkan kerajaan Islam zaman dahulu yg mana mereka yang masuk Islam diberikan pangkat.

        2. Beginilah cara Islam akan mengislamkan seluruh dunia. Adakah kita akan menjadi seperti Indonesia yang mempunyai ibu dan bapa berlainan agama serta anak yang boleh memilih agama sendiri termasuk menjadi atheis.

          Dari segi sejarah kerajaan-kerajaan Islam, bukan Islam yang akhirnya akan mengalah. Kerana itu tamadun-tamadun yang dijajah orang Arab Islam akan mengambil pakai budaya Islam dan menjadi masyarakat Islam. Dengan memeluk Islam mereka mendapat pangkat yang tinggi dalam kerajaan dan manfaat-manfaat lain.

          Perlu diingat definisi Melayu dalam perlembagaan Malaysia adalah mereka yang beragama Islam dan mengamalkan budaya Melayu. Jadi Ridhuan Tee dan Ann Wan Seng secara teknikal boleh dipanggil Melayu kerana adat Melayu itu sendiri semakin mengambil bentuk Islam yang ‘strict’.

          Jadi daripada ketuanan Melayu mungkin Malaysia akan beralih kepada ketuanan Islam.

          Dan sebab itu juga mengapa Islam dan bukan Islam itu akan terus bertentangan.

          1. Sekurang-kurangnya dengan kuasa Allah subhanawataala, kita dapat melihat orang yang sama, kadang2 datang sebagai tooyid dan kadang2 datang sebagai zack.

            hmmmmm. Avatar tu dah sesuatu. Sekarang kita dapat baca, komentari yang hampir sama, dengan lenggok bahasa dan alur pemikiran yang sama.

            Agaknya, kenapalah tooyid aka zack aka tooyid aka zack ada split personality?

            Helen, boleh beritahu kami kat sini, ISPnya sama nggak?

            1. zack aka tooyid aka zack aka tooyid, stop beating around the bush, and tell us exactly what are you trying to ‘sell’ to us, will you?!

      2. Muhyidin kena main lagi dengan Tamil.
        Sape yang nak lari bawa anak dari bini? Orang India.
        Mereka guna Islam untuk bawa lari anak dan dapat perceraian secara otomatik.

        Orang India mcam ini pun Muhyidin nak bawa masuk Islam?

        JAWI tu penuh dengan Taliban PAS menyorok dalam Kerajaan UMNO.

        Sape yang membolehkan perempuan Melayu di rogol asalkan kurang dari 4 lelaki? Pegawai JAWI lah?

        Sape yang protect lelaki yang sodomise lelaki lain keranan tak bawa 4 saksi? JAWI lah.

        Siapa yang sebat anak perempuan Melayu kerana mengandung luark nikah? JAWI lah.

        Semua bahlol seks kat JAWI tu. Penganut Islam totok.

        Semak semua undang-undang yang dibuat oleh pegawai JAWI yang menganiayai perempuan Melayu atas nama ugama orang ARAb.

    2. Ala Anwar kan Tamil. Apa saja dia boleh belit ma.. inikan hadith.
      Sape lah bodoh benor tanya Anwar Ibrahim pasal ugama.
      Tu Amoi kat video tu pun ada hadiths..haha…

      Anwar jawap persoalan ugama anda..muahaha…

  1. alahai Helen…

    kesiannya pada sesiapa yang mahu percaya setiap kali anwar Ibrahim bercakap.

    kesiannya pada sesiapa yang mahu orang lain percaya bahawa kata-kata anwar Ibrahim itu fakta.

    kesiannya pada sesiapa yang fikir bahawa rujukan terbaiknya adalah merujuk kepada kata-kata anwar Ibrahim.

    kesian sungguh kepada sesiapa yang kata-kata anwar Ibrahim ini diterima sebagai ‘Fatwa’…..

    sesungguhnya umat islam di Malaysia yang memetik ‘keta-kata’ anwar Ibrahim sebagai ‘fatwa’ sebagai benar amatlah mendukacitakan.

    pada saya, tiada ‘fatwa’ di dalam apa jua kata-kata dan ucapan apatahlagi dalam tindak-tanduk seorang manusia bernama anwar Ibrahim….period.

  2. If anyone can highlight the ref that Anwar made, I too want to know. Not only me, the entire 14 Mufties, whom are placed responsible to advise our Sultans and Raja on the subject will want to refer to ‘Anwar’s Hadith’ as to its relevance to this particular issue.

    We can’t take populist’s version on this matter.

  3. Netto is Anwar ‘s propagandist. How effective he is debatable since he writes like a secondary school twit who has just discovered the existence of a thesaurus.

    I doubt there is even such an “anecdote” as I doubt Netto has ever read, Kant and Aristotle .

    As usual, when it comes to the mendacious UMNO moves using Islam, Pakatan does not have the balls to confront it head on.

    So what those of us who believe in a secular government get is this Opposition filled with “true Muslims” who make the appropriate noises when there is very little consequence/repercussions and remain mute, when action is called for.

    My only joy from this is that one day perhaps soon, UMNO (like the rest of us pendatangs) is going to find itself on the wrong end of the Islamic scimitar it is toying with.

    1. Edit to add.

      Oik65’s In defence of Big Dog, is impressive. Extremely good job by a pro Establishment blogger.

      1. Good on Oik then.

        I find the Iguana Eng and his coterie to be extremely slippery creatures.

        For this reason, despite Umno and the Malays holding the blunt instruments of state (or wielding the club, so to speak) I see them as the underdogs when it comes to the war of putar-belit attrition where the DAP side employs fine, poisoned needles.

        In an earlier post, I’d said that the Chinese bully all the other races in Malaysia. Big Dog barks ferociously no doubt, but in the oppo treatment of him you can discern the refined Chinese cruelty.

        1. Iguana Eng, I like that.

          Well you know me, I find it acceptable that UMNO is the underdog in the online propaganda war simply because the instruments of the State has profound implications on my very existence as a citizen of this country. I would feel the same if the JeruSubang Politburo did the same as UMNO in another guise.

          As usual I find your “Chinese bully all other races in Malaysia” an interesting observation. Here’s a quote from Harry Lee :

          “Mine is a very matter-of-fact approach to the problem. If you can select a population and they’re educated and they’re properly brought up, then you don’t have to use too much of the stick because they would already have been trained. It’s like with dogs. You train it in a proper way from small. It will know that it’s got to leave, go outside to pee and to defecate. No, we are not that kind of society. We had to train adult dogs who even today deliberately urinate in the lifts.”
          ― Lee Kuan Yew

          I’ll will leave it at this for the moment……

          1. re: “Iguana Eng”

            It is admittedly brilliant but I can’t claim credit tho’. Came across it somewhere in the deep cyberspace.

  4. Helen,

    Anwar ini mempunyai keistimewaan yang tersendiri. Dia mempunyai segerombolan pengikut yang akan mempercayai apa jua yang keluar dari mulut nya. Gerombolan manusia pengikut dia ni tidak bertambah mahupun berkurang. Akan sentiasa ada yang keluar dan masuk. Ini juga punca anwar tidak akan menang sampai bila bila dan dia juga tahu akan hal itu. Perdana Menteri dalam gerombolan dia ni pun dah cukuplah untuk dia dalam meniti usia emas nya tu.

    Isu yang lebih teringin saya nantikan adalah reaksi PAS. Apa agaknya Nik Abduh dan Tantawi nak ulas tentang isu ini.

    Menjawab soalan anda, saya juga tidak pernah terdengar akan hadis ini ataupun kisah sejarah mengenai peristiwa sebegini. Mungkin Anwar teringat hal perjanjian Hudaibiyah tu.

    1. re: “Akan sentiasa ada yang keluar dan masuk.”

      Memang. Para pengikutnya ibarat ‘revolving door’.

  5. Waiting game works for Pakatan.

    Cabinet has withdrawn the conversion Bill for “further study”.

    1. Edit to add.

      And don’t you find it interesting that it was “non Muslim/Malay BN lackeys” that kicked up the most fuss.

      No doubt the apparatchiks would just paint this fact as some sort of “sandiwara”,

      The fact is that Malay/Muslim members of PR were unwillingly to take this head on. So much for “UBAH”.

      It is a pity UMNO did not choose to drag this further. It would be interesting to see the squirming in PR.

      But then again, another piece on this from Netto…..

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