Converting minors to another religion

July 5, 2013 at 9:25 pm 42 comments

“CF” is Christian Fellowship.

Hannah Yeoh’s tweet said that she – Speaker of the Dewan and the “6th most powerful woman in Malaysia” – attended a Christian Fellowship rally for schools in Subang Jaya on June 29.

Selangor has an evangelista sitting as the state powerful Speaker. Selangor has a state newspaper that appears to believe Jerusubang is the Selangor capital.

hannahyeoh Attended CF rally for schools

The Subang Rally is not something new. It is held annually.

Last year’s event was held at the same venue as mentioned in Hannah Yeoh’s tweet above, i.e. “Taylor’s Lakeside Campus”.

The Subang Rally is notorious. Their dedicated blog had previously made the call to Christians to “Rise up it’s time to take Subang for Jesus”.

Now look at this blog entry below from the 2011 edition of the Subang Rally.

“20 people accepted Christ”

The Subang Rally organisers declared that “Around 20 people accepted Christ in the first session”.

In plainer words, it means that during the Rally’s first session alone, the evangelist missionaries in Subang Jaya succeeded in converting 20 students to Christianity.

Brainwashing impressionable young minds

It is a known fact that the Christian missionaries are very aggressive in converting Indians and Chinese. They even try to convert Malays.

I’ve been informed they’re doing this in schools, which comes as no surprise since it is something that has been going on for some time already.

What is new, however, is that the missionary programme has intensified since the DAP became more and more powerful in Selangor, and their people are being appointed to various official positions.

hannah yeoh

I’ve also been informed that Tamil schools are vulnerable to the Christian proselytization activities. I cannot vouch for this but I leave it up to the relevant authorities to look into the veracity of the allegation.

Now let’s examine some of the older photos (2010-11) from the Subang Rally.

Christian Fellowship Subang Rally

Christian Fellowship Subang Rally

Christian Fellowship di mana Hannah Yeoh memberi khutbah

Subang Jaya the evangelist youth capital

prayed for her and her assistants, gambar dari http://subangrally.blogspot.com

prayed for her and her assistants, http://subangrally.blogspot.com

SRchangeFB

Hannah Yeoh the VIP speaker at Subang Rally

Edward Ling (Hannah Yeoh's pol-sec), speaker at Subang Rally

Edward Ling (Hannah Yeoh’s pol-sec), speaker at Subang Rally

SRtshirt2Jy2011

Participants wearing ‘Subang for Jesus’ T-shirt

iiSRtshirt

iiSRJy2011

Rally banner says “Subang for Christ”

Continues to ‘Is MCA becoming the Malaysian Christian Association?

.

“Subang for Christ”?

Jais dan Mais tak pantau, ke?

Apa kata Hasan Ali? Ada apa-apa pendedahan baru?

***  ***   ***

Note: I have amended to title of this post from ‘children’ to ‘minors’ to be more accurate. — updated 9.36pm

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Entry filed under: Mama DAPster, Uncategorized. Tags: .

Anwar’s fatwa and the mysterious missing hadith Is MCA becoming the Malaysian Christian Association?

42 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Sham  |  July 5, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Helen, all religions tend to proselytize. It is because the followers of each religion believes that theirs is the only way to heaven.

    Reply
    • 2. Helen Ang  |  July 5, 2013 at 10:04 pm

      Islam and Christianity proselytize. We don’t have controversies over Malays wanting to become Buddhists or Hindus.

      However Malaysian law does not allow other religions to proselytize to Muslims.

      The recent tabling of the Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act Amendment Bill 2013 caused a furore.

      Although there are cases of Hindu and Buddhist children being converted to Islam against the will of one parent, the conversion of Chinese and Indian minors to Christianity is far more rampant.

      Why are the politicians not weighing both controversial developments using the same standards?

      Reply
      • 3. AC-DC  |  July 6, 2013 at 11:07 am

        But is there any legal punishment if a Christian leaves the religion, or does not practice it? Apart from “apostates will be condemned to hellfire” rhetoric and noise from more conservative groups, the ex-Christian will not be arrested, detained, or punished. Even societal shunning is minimal. I know ex-Christians who still get along well with their Christian friends.

        Reply
        • 4. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 11:25 am

          The part of the Bill objected by MCA is the bit on the conversion of minors to Islam.

          We’re not talking about YOUR ex-Christian friends.

          We’re talking about conversion of minors to Christianity — like those 20 kids converted during the Subang Rally.

          And whether brainwashing and peer pressure makes it realistic/possible that these kids can remove themselves from the clutches of the evangelical cult later in life.

          Reply
        • 5. Sham  |  July 6, 2013 at 4:34 pm

          Yes, agree with AC-DC; this is exactly the reason why conversion to Christianity is not so worrying. When these minors grow-up and decide that this is not the religion for them, they can just leave it.

          Reply
          • 6. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm

            While I can agree with the ‘exit’ factor, I do take issue with the MCA’s attitude nonetheless.

            The DAP evangelistas control S’gor and for several years running, the current Speaker has been patron of the Subang Rally where conversions of kids to Christianity takes place.

            This is a development that deserves press coverage like the DUMC affair but MCA keeps on allowing The J-Star to cover up for the DAP evangelistas.

            Something is very wrong with the MCA.

            Reply
    • 7. Christianity and Colonisers  |  July 8, 2013 at 4:15 pm

      Christianity is dangerous because it is the religion of the colonisers. The Europeans were murderous people because they hyped up by the believe in the Jewish priest Jesus. The Romans and the priests find it easier to govern the masses together.
      The Roman Catholic Christian Monarchies killed people all over the world and enslave the natives.
      Even Malays were not spared as they enslave and brought to South Africa by Catholic Portuguese.
      Until today you can find the slaves in South Africa.

      Reply
  • 8. Lousy.Engineer  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:15 pm

    “… all religions tend to proselytize…”

    Not really lah. Only Islam and Christianity tends to do so. But my impression is that Christians are a lot more active in this sort of activity (they’re so active that they even try to proselytize in book store like Borders, to some strangers like me!).

    One thing I don’t get it is why most worshipers looks like they’re crying (like the boy in the following picture after HY picture in her speaker garb); any Christians here care to comment ah? Not a sarcastic question, just curious.

    Reply
    • 9. Conrad  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:40 am

      Well as a heretical Christian, my answer may not be the most accurate one but the official answer is,…… it boils down to being overcome with emotion in the presence of something greater.

      I just assumed that these people had low self esteem.

      Reply
      • 10. Conrad  |  July 6, 2013 at 1:05 am

        Don’t worry about it. Standards fluctuate. We even have ‘Shampoo’ commenting. — Helen

        Reply
    • 11. Fakin' Fake Calvin  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:49 am

      Their version of “accepting” or “receiving” Christ / Holy Spirit.

      It is an act prevalent in charismatic groups. When I say charismatic, it refers to their “spirited” style of prayer which involves praise & worship, praying in tongues, praying over etc.

      I’m not sure about other mainstream denominations but charismatic prayer groups exist in the Catholic church. A typical prayer meeting goes like this:

      1. Praise & worship where they’ll sing hymns praising & invoking God. The hymns are normally sung in a medley as you go from one to another. They’d sing anywhere between 3 to perhaps more than 10. When the last song is sung, the music’s volume is turned down as the participants hum the tune & the prayer leader says the opening prayer.

      2. This is followed by scripture readings, normally one from the Old Testament & one from the 4 Gospels of the New Testament. This is normally followed by a short explanation on the bible passages, not unlike the Sunday homily (sermon) by the priest.

      3. This is then followed by prayers for intentions made. The leader will invite everyone to offer prayers for the intentions of those present. As for the hands raised, it is know as “praying over”. This is when someone present needs prayers & the crowd is invited to pray over the person,hence the gesture. This is also where the debatable “praying in tongues” normally occur.

      4. The prayer meet is ended with another round of singing followed by a closing prayer.

      Going back to your question over the fella crying. Christians believe that we are guided by the Holy Spirit through the wisdom granted us. Thus, you will hear phrases like “May the Holy Spirit guide us” or “May the Holy Spirit grant us wisdom” etc etc.

      Apparently when someone cries or wails like a baby during prayers, the leaders will proclaim that the person has received the Holy Spirit thus his/her tears as a sign of regret for past transgressions which they’ve realized with their enlightenment. Personally I find that somewhat shady. In fact, I find the whole idea of a prayer meeting with their outlandish claims of healings, enlightenment to be nothing more than self serving grand standing.

      This is why the Catholic church has refused to include such meetings in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) as part of the liturgy. As Catholicism is sacramental driven in worship, the weekend mass centres around the sacraments instead of hymns, music & prayers.

      For the evangelical churches however, are more fun driven thus their singing, music & animation of the hymns. As they are not governed by any authority they’re free to decide their directions,teachings etc.

      Reply
  • 12. Conrad  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    Re: “However Malaysian law does not allow other religions to proselytize to Muslims”

    Fair enough, then why there is no evidence adduced to prove that the Evangelists are converting Malays. I have heard everyone from RPK to Ibrahim Ali claim that this is a common occurrence but so far, no evidence has been offered in lieu of rumor, innuendo or posts like these that attempts to link the voluntary conversion of Non Malay minors Christianity to plots to convert Malays.

    Unless you are claiming that, these minors were forcibly converted.

    Leaving aside the phenomenon of forced conversions of Non Malays (which includes Orang Asal) minors to Islam or suspect conversions of Non Malays when the religious department turns up to claims the remains of the deceased, what we have here is a dominant religious majority using their religion as a weapon and at the same time claiming victimhood.

    If the conversion of Chinese and Indian minors to Christianity is “rampant” then the question becomes if this was done without the consent of the parent.

    However since conversion to Christianity has no major legal ramifications (unlike converting to Islam or converting a Malay minor), beyond personal ramifications, I see no reason why politicians should weigh in as they do when the issue of Islamic conversion is shoved down our Non Malay/Muslim throats.

    Apropos nothing but “Rocking themselves to One Way” sounds vaguely autoerotic.

    Reply
    • 13. Helen Ang  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:41 pm

      I read and understand the Sultan of Selangor’s titah as saying that DUMC did proselytize and convert Malays.

      https://helenang.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/kemelut-dumc-diberi-betis-nak-peha/

      Reply
      • 14. Conrad  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:42 pm

        Then why have there been no arrest made ?

        Reply
        • 15. Helen Ang  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:45 pm

          Because the Malays are willing to mengalah in order to keep the peace. What do you think would have happened if the S’gor religious authorities had pressed the matter?

          Reply
          • 16. Ibni Ismail  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:55 pm

            Sakit mata membaca ulasan puan dan berdesing juga telinga ini. Namun inilah kenyataan yang terjadi di Selangor..

            Reply
            • 17. alwieabdullah  |  July 6, 2013 at 6:37 pm

              tuan ibni ismail…saya juga merasakan hal yang sama dengan tuan…

              Reply
          • 18. Conrad  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:55 pm

            Nonsense.

            When “Malay undercover reporters” spat out the Holy Sacrament, there was no shattering of the peace.

            When protestors dragged a cow head and then had a press conference sitting beside the then Home Minister, there was no shattering of the peace.

            These are not the actions of “Malays” who are willing to mengalah to keep the peace.

            The Selangor religious department has never been afraid to trespass on issues considered scared and profane to the Non Malay/Muslim communities, even to the extent of barging in during funerals.

            In fact I would argue that there is a greater majority of Non Malays (including Christians) who would be horrified if proof that the Evangelists have been converting Malays and disregarding the law of the land is adduced.

            Reply
            • 19. islam1st  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:51 am

              you would surely be surprised!

              Reply
          • 20. Orangkampung  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:14 am

            As Helen says. And also an element of shame, guilt, disgrace. Not something you want to shout from the rooftops. If you were to do a survey, no Malay would dare confess he has converted. The only known and openly mentioned case is that of Lina Joy. Conversion is The No. 1 SIN, and on top of that there are legal ramifications. Malays would rather confess to being gay first rather than being a convert.

            Reply
            • 21. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:26 am

              re: “Malays would rather confess to being gay first…”

              I was under the impression that sections of the Malay community – at least in the older times – were tolerant of gays.

              Not in the Islamic sense as the religion prohibits. But more like the “don’t ask, don’t tell” even though it may be an open secret.

              That’s why more Malays are visibly transsexuals (I don’t have hard data on this, just anecdotal) compared with Chinese or Indians. It boils down to the tolerance that the Malays possess (or used to possess but losing by the day).

              Am I correct or mistaken in my assumption?

              Reply
            • 22. Conrad  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:35 am

              This is a very interesting perspective. It neatly divides the cultural (Malay) and religious (Christianity) within the community. Just to be clear, I would not put it pass these Evangelists to convert in a sub rosa manner, just that if we are going to have a discussion on a topic like this, it would be constructive if we relied on hard evidence so to speak, rather then appeals to emotion.

              Helen’s point about transgendered Malays is also quite fascinating. Reading Malay tabloids and certain mainstream (Malay) papers, one would assume that there is a kind of “acceptance” in the from of the sometimes benign condemnation.

              Not that I am arguing that the LGBT experience here is all rosy……

              Reply
          • 23. islam1st  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:57 am

            mengalah is the word tapi it won’t be for long, it has been around for far too long but it seems, as bro conrad had pointed out, nobody is giving credits were its due.

            Reply
  • 24. Ibni Ismail  |  July 5, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    Helen,

    Pindaan yang sedang diperkatakan ini sebenarnya sudah pun dikuatkuasakan oleh sebahagian besar negeri negeri lain. Tiada polemik yang timbul kerana tiada publisiti yang diberikan.

    Saya lebih ingin menarik perhatian mengenai ketidak adilan dan penganiayaan yang timbul akibat dari masuknya seorang ayah/abang/saudara lelaki kepada islam. Senario sekarang ini seolah olah seorang lelaki yang memeluk agama islam telah terlepas dari tanggungjawab kepada anak2/ibu/bapa mereka sendiri yang belum atau idak mahu memeluk islam.

    Mahkamah Syariah yang saya faham (betulkan jika silap) tidak mengambilkira langsung akan hal nasib tanggungan seorang mualaf itu keatas tanggungannya yang bukan islam. Kita kena perkasakan undang undang Syariah agar turut mengambilkira kepentingan tanggungjawab mualaf tadi terhadap tanggungan nya. Islam adalah agama yang adil saksama. Sebagai Khalifah Allah kita diwajibkan berlaku adil kepada semua makhluk Allah.

    Mungkin boleh dipertimbangkan satu fasal dalam undang2 syariah kita yang membolehkan tanggungan (yang belum memeluk islam) kepada Mualaf ini mengadu hal kepada Mahkamah syariah / Kadhi akan kecuaian mualaf tadi dalam melaksanakan tanggungjawabnya.

    Saya berkeyakinan, Allah memerintahkan kita melaksanakan tanggungjawab kita kepada ibu bapa serta anak anak kita tanpa langsung menyebut ibubapa itu mestilah islam atau anak anak itu mestilah islam. Selagi ‘permintaan’ ibu/bapa/anak tidak bercanggah dengan ajaran Islam maka wajiblah kita melaksanakan tanggungjawab kita kepada mereka.

    Sebagai perumpamaan, Saya mengahwini seorang perempuan cina (memeluk islam), makanya pastilah ibu bapa isteri saya (Buddha) itu saya anggap sebagai ayah yang menjadi sebagai sebahagian dari tanggungan saya. Inilah keadilan Islam yang janganlah kita abaikan hingga dilihat seolah olah hukum islam ini zalim kerana memisahkan kasih sayang sesama saudara.

    Reply
  • 25. Mas  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:30 am

    This is looking like the Sky Kingdom of Subang. I don’t like this cult stuff. Scary!

    Reply
    • 26. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:32 am

      Another photo for you. This one is of youths at a Subang Jaya church but not taken during the Subang Rally itself.

      null

      Reply
      • 27. islam1st  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:59 am

        Helen, it seems that you are concern about Buddhists being made Christian, are you?

        Reply
        • 28. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 1:19 am

          I am concerned about the Christian militancy precipitating a Sino-Malay clash as our friend Shamshul Anuar keeps warning us (about the Chinese on a collision course with the Malays).

          https://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/historical-cycle-every-time-dap-is-strong-racial-tensions-peak/

          Taking the election years,

          MCA beat DAP: 1974, 1982, 1995, 1999, 2004
          DAP beat MCA: 1986, 2008, 2013
          DAP & MCA equally strong: 1969, 1978, 1990

          When MCA was on top, peace was kept.

          I don’t see MCA being able to recover. Consider the party dead.

          With the DAP’s 90 percent Chinese support alongside the DAP Christian activism (e.g. the churches being anti-government), I foresee conflict more likely to arise from religious differences which in Malaysia overlaps with race as all Malays are Muslim and most peninsular Christians are anti-establishment.

          I see that MCA is capitulating to the Christian push.

          Reply
          • 29. islam1st  |  July 6, 2013 at 1:36 am

            Yea, I did read that post of yours. Maybe that is where it is heading to be.

            Can we do something about it, with our limited resources? You did. But are you doing a good job preventing it? I doubt it, because the Chinese, simply don’t read your blog.

            Do you have any data as of your readers racial breakdown?

            Reply
            • 30. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 1:50 am

              Some metrics: Blog-‘follow’-(my)blog — mostly Malay. E-mail subscribers, as far as I can tell — mostly Malay. The silent majority readers — mostly Malay.

              My blog is on the blogroll of mostly the Malay blogs too.

              I don’t see that the Chinese will change course. If oppo got 90 percent Chinese support in GE13, I predict 95 percent by GE14.

              Reason: The politics of hate has an iron grip and their character assassins like ‘Nizam’ will ruthlessly and without any scruples do a hatchet job on any Chinese dissenters.

              Reply
          • 33. Conrad  |  July 6, 2013 at 8:17 am

            Although I do appreciate this argument, I think it conflates a wide range of issues.

            One of the biggest if not the biggest expressions of Non Malay anti Establishment militancy came in the form of Hindraf.

            At first glance racial and religious divides seem like two different beasts but the reality here in Malaysia, is that racial issues are more often then not issues concerning religion.

            I don not think that when MCA was top dog peace was kept. The process of Islamisation points to a culture of appeasement of Non Malay component members.

            Of course now MCA has been infiltrated by the Evangelists which is why its propaganda organ would be more interested in highlighting the fact that an intrusive State religion which should be applicable to Muslims only intrudes on the lives of Non Muslims – read Christians.

            Not that I think that this kind of Corporate Christianity is anathema to the kleptocratic agenda of UMNO. MCA is willing to be ravaged by the Rapture crowd because at the end of the day, they realize a new technocratic plutocracy is in the making.

            “Just followed all my interns on twitter, made it compulsory for all of them to have twitter accounts.” – Ong Kian Ming

            Reply
            • 34. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 8:56 am

              re: DOCTOR (PhD) Ong Kian Ming’s interns on Twitter

              Umno masih tidur lagi?

              re: “MCA is willing to be ravaged by the Rapture crowd because at the end of the day, they realize a new technocratic plutocracy is in the making.”

              Alright. So where does that take MCA vis-a-vis its relationship with Umno-BN?

              Reply
  • 35. i hate n'sync  |  July 6, 2013 at 2:08 am

    This is really old news to me. And like Ibni Ismail says, it is not something novel nor recent. The various state Islamic laws have something similar right from the get go.

    Anyone who took a paper / course on family law (civil & syariah) would have understood the problem. Syariah law automatically dissolves a civil marriage when a party converts into Islam, but the union remains intact under LRMDA unless divorce proceedings were initiated. The matter on custody of children from a civil union stems from the root problem – an artificial divide between civil and syariah courts. The latter has been doing itself no favours while the former consider themselves tied up under the 1988 amendment in Article 121(1a).

    The late Ahmad Ibrahim himself has stated in his published tome that a marriage union formed under LRMDA must be dissolved and (matters arising) resolved BEFORE the syariah law takes effect or gain precedence. This, of course, invites the question whether the barriers to Muslim converts in this country amounts to discrimination as converts of other faith are not subjected to such treatment. Then again, the argument is that non-muslims do not have a separate set of family laws governing them.

    Please do not listen to politicians and go off tangent on whether a child is best raised by the mother or the father, or the ones who go on a race-based discourse. The truth of the matter is that there is a loophole in the current family laws governing muslims and non-muslims which is being exploited by irresponsible individuals. It is not just about child custodianship but also alimony and harta sepencarian issues. I hope Malaysians realize what is at stake and not, again and again, fall back on the us vs. them mentality when dealing with the problem.

    Muslim converts should not be penalized or hindered in their choice of faith. However, any union arising from an act of law should be handled based on the ORIGINAL consensual agreement. In this case, if you are married under the Law Reform (Marriage and Divorce) Act, you cannot convert to Islam and use Syariah law to gain unequal legal advantage over your ex-spouse.

    Fix this damn loophole already!

    Reply
    • 36. Ibni Ismail  |  July 6, 2013 at 5:26 pm

      i hate n’sync,

      ” In this case, if you are married under the Law Reform (Marriage and Divorce) Act, you cannot convert to Islam and use Syariah law to gain unequal legal advantage over your ex-spouse.”

      To charge Mualaf under Law Reform, for sure nearly impossible as we already agreed about the position of Islam in our beloved country..

      The best thing is to reform Syariah Law. There must be a place/enactment in syariah law to ensure interest of the family (children & parents that not convert to Islam) being taken care. Government must look into this matter seriously. Don’t let Islam to be seen so unfair and cruel. We (muslim) call ourselves as “khalifah Allah” so let acting like Khalifah.

      Reply
      • 37. islam1st  |  July 7, 2013 at 7:25 am

        Very much in agreement with you on this, Sir.

        Reply
      • 38. i hate n'sync  |  July 7, 2013 at 8:27 am

        I believe it cuts both ways. The jurisdiction problem is obvious, as Syariah courts have no legal power over a union made under LRMDA. The only person that Syariah laws can target is the muallaf, but to affix conditions on converts can sometimes be unjust and discriminatory. Both sides need to fix their laws, not just Syariah.

        Reply
  • 39. I am Mulan  |  July 6, 2013 at 11:31 am

    “Now let’s examine some of the older photos (2010-11) from the Subang Rally.”

    Do you see any poor people, disabled people, foreign workers or Bumiputera Christians in the pictures? Do you see anyone dressed in anything cheaper than a Calvin Klein? Are the poor, disabled, BC, FC or humbly dressed welcomed?

    Reply
    • 40. Helen Ang  |  July 6, 2013 at 12:06 pm

      The newer pictures are probably off-limits to the general public like how some of Hannah Yeoh’s tweets are now only accessible to the 80,000 Twitter followers.

      Reply
  • 41. I am Mulan  |  July 6, 2013 at 11:51 am

    FW (Foreign workers) not FC sorry. Please edit for me, Helen. Thanks

    Reply
  • 42. AK47  |  July 7, 2013 at 12:50 am

    We now see with our eyes what happens when a group of people from a 5,000 year old civilization that has been DE-TRIBALIZED. through urbanization and the NEP. And also, the decades of neglect and self-serving attitude of the MCA leadership. The bongo bongo voodoo choral and dancing troupes of Subang Jaya have now taken on a sinister meaning.

    Reply

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