Posted in Papa DAPster

It’s Umno’s fault! Umno made the Chinese do it (support Alvivi)

Last Saturday, Raja Petra Kamarudin wrote ‘Chinese hypocrisy at its best‘.

One reader responded to his Malaysia Today column saying, “RPK, you are wrong about the Chinese.”

The commenter ‘woorabinda’ (screenshot in footnote) told Raja Petra that if he were to follow the comments on the Alvivi saga coming from participants in Malaysiakini, Raja Petra would realise that almost all the portal’s Chinese subscribers were initially supportive of charging the duo for “their foolish act”.

The Iguana Eng storyline now goes like this:

(1) Actually ah, the Chinese really support the gomen to take “stern action” against Alviva ya.

Punish them, they’re a disgrace, says Guan Eng of sex bloggers - The Malaysian Insider 2013-07-23 05-22-43
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/punish-them-theyre-a-disgrace-says-guan-eng-of-sex-bloggers

(2) But then ah the Chinese see that the gomen practise “double standards” wor.

Aiyoh! If like that how to support the gomen for taking action against Alvivi, lah?

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/refusal-to-charge-ibrahim-zulkifli-shows-double-standards-says-guan-eng
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/refusal-to-charge-ibrahim-zulkifli-shows-double-standards-says-guan-eng

(3) Why our double standard punya gomen no tangkap the President of Perkasa? Can let off Perkasa Vice President just like that also, meh?

(4) And then some more, judge didn’t allow bail. Cannot lah like that.

The commenter ‘woorabinda’ told Raja Petra when the Chinese saw all of the above, then all the Chinese reacted negatively — “This really put us off”.

‘woorabinda’ said: “When such an unfair treatment is meted on the duo, condemnation for him [and his demure kindergarten teacher friend] turns to support.”

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/censure-abdul-rahman-for-racist-support-of-ibrahim-ali-guan-eng-says
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/censure-abdul-rahman-for-racist-support-of-ibrahim-ali-guan-eng-says

So listen, it’s like this, okay.

Actually the Chinese no support Alvivi one. Never support such “disgraceful” behaviour one.

But then the Chinese see the gomen so double standard one, what to do?

Because see Umno gomen punish Alvin and Vivian but never punish Ib Ali and Zul Nordin, then the Chinese ubah from wanting Alvivi punished to complaining that it’s all so unfair.

So the Chinese anger against Alvivi suddenly turn into support lah.

This is the real reason the Chinese are making excuses for Alvivi. Umno made them do it.

Endnote:

Chinese hypocrisy at its best (UPDATED with Chinese translation) 2013-07-23 05-09-19
http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/no-holds-barred/58278-chinese-hypocrisy-at-its-best

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

128 thoughts on “It’s Umno’s fault! Umno made the Chinese do it (support Alvivi)

  1. The difference between Ibrahim Ali and the the pornstar is that Ibrahim Ali is a public figure who makes political statements as part of his day job to make controversial statements. The pornstar is or rather was a private person whose act can be seen as intentionally trying to provoke Muslims and stretching the limits of personal freedom.

    1. Ibrahim Ali = Upset with Christian (Chinese DAP) over their insistence on using “Kalimah Allah” in the Malay Bibile”. Thus he made the remarks. As a Muslim I support him 1000% due to the following:

      According to Islam Jesus is just a Prophet but to the Christian, Jesus is The God, The Son and The Holly Spirit. This is stated in the Quran.

      al-Ikhlâs – The Purity

      In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

      Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
      Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
      He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
      And there is none like unto Him.

      Alvivi = They upsets the Muslims with their antics for no reason .

    2. In the stupid alvivi case the gomen is practicing double standard!!! TAPI gomen bagi duit to SRJK , BR1M ambik…lepas tu support DAP…ini BUKAN double standard !!!! Kalau dah jenis anak haram tu memang lidah iguana yang bercabang jugak lah…

      1. anon,

        Just like to clarify BR1M money does not come from some elusive UMNO coffer contributed exclusively by UMNO members.

        It comes from public fund, tax etc.

        Giving out money like this, I, as a tax payer also hati sakit.

        1. “Giving out money like this, I, as a tax payer also hati sakit.”

          Macam dia seorang dan bangsa dia aje yang bayar income tax kat Malaysia ni….

        2. Ho,ho (HH),

          The gomen of the day is UMNO lah HH.. so the money is from UMNO lah.. u the chinese want to change the gomen that is u want to change UMNO.. but when the money the gomen (UMNO) gave, u said it is not from UMNO!!! See how u putar belit ur tongue.. Lidah anak haram DAP balls carriers sama aje dengan their leaders – BERCABANG!!! Iguana lah kan..

  2. The Bastard UMNO minister indeed is acting unfairly against the Chinese. If he said it is ok to burn the ‘wrongly’ printed bible, is it ok tht a non Muslim burn the Quran that they think is printed wrongly as well?

    UMNO is trying to make herself appeared as defender of Islam on earth and as usual made the non Muslim especially the chinese as bogeyman.

    1. Ha aha ha

      So unfair to Chinese Christians, all this time they were waiting to read BM bibles with Allah instead of Tuhan or Buddha now.

      All hail Lim, defender of Christianity and BM bibles.

      Don’t worry about the Quran, Muslims burn misprinted Qurans themselves. It’s one of the allowed ways to dispose of them.

      1. Muslim of course can burn the misprint Quran but can a non Muslim declare the Quran is misprint and burn it just like how the Muslim declare the Bible is misprinted?

        1. Wah… perkataan Allah nak pakai buat dakwah ke orang Melayu, lepas tu ada hati nak nak bakar Quran pulak, tak taulah otak korang pikir macam mana, cuma nak tambah nyakitkan hati kaum lain je.

          Patut pun sampai ada yang berani ejek makan babi, bubuh tanda halal, cakap buka puasa heh? Perangai memang kurang ajar tak abis-abis, beri betis nak paha, bagi paha naik atas kepala.

          1. perkataan tu milik bapak ko ke? and who are you to “beri betis”? stop talking like u are the rightful owner of everything and non-muslims have to come begging to u whenever we need something. if only you ppl could stop sniffing glue, then maybe you would see the bitter truth that nobody is falling for that ketuanan melayu bullshit.

            1. 1. “Perkataan tu milik bapak ko ke?”

              Memang bukan mak bapak aku punya, tapi kepunyaan umat Islam sedunia. Bukan Christian, Bukan Yahudi, Bukan Buddha, Bukan Hindu etc.

              2. “Stop talking like u are the rightful owner of everything and non-muslims have to come begging to u whenever we need something”

              Listen SWEETIE even if you beg and crawl on your knee you won’t get it . TAK SUKA? SILA BERAMBUS

              3. “if only you ppl could stop sniffing glue, ”

              Well just tell that all your “Towkay CINA DAP” who keep selling to the Malay youngsters. I raised this issue long time ago in one forum, maybe I should raised it again.

              If you ‘ppl” (I quoted you), could stop consume less “BABI” than “YOUR PERANGAI PUN TAK AKAN SERUPA BABI” right/

              4. then maybe you would see the bitter truth that nobody is falling for that ketuanan melayu bullshit.

              Be thankful that we are Malay + Malaysian. Otherwise learn a lesson or two from here WILL YOU Precious. [YouTube]

            2. Go ahead, show your true colors wootwoot! Obviously every thing wrong is with the other side and people like you never think about any one other than your selves.

              It would make it so obvious to other Malays here are deep your anti Malay sentiments are and how certain people are using manufactured issues like this to get supporters like you. And then people like you cry like babies when there’s backlash from Malays. Did you really expect Malays to just roll over and die and surprised when they fight back?

              Keep nurturing those anti Malay sentiments. Those Malays that some people call rural and backward can sense it and fight back.

              No wonder UMNO managed a bigger come back last election and PAS and PKR performed worse than DAP. It’s almost like Malays subconsciously anticipated Chinese tsunami.

              Yes, keep insulting.

    2. He said he will burn bibble that uses Allah name in it. Whats wrong with that?? Allah is not ur god.. U guys are a thief. No honour in ur religion. Manipulative. Who is ur God? Anyone n anything that fits ur manipulative n conniving motive.

      We do burn quran if its printed wrong. All the quran has to be the same. No addition or omission is allowed in in its text. Each word has to be the same. For years since the inception of Quran, it remains unchanged. Each letter and word remains the same. No modification, no alteration. The purest book.

      1. If u think the quran is printed wrongly, please show us the proof- which part. We only object to the word Allah being used in ur bibble. Nothing more. Understand!

  3. Yang baik-baik itu datang daripada kami!
    Yang jahat-jahat itu datang daripada UMNO!

    More or less Non Malays line of thought! They love to pick on UMNO aka the Malays aka the bhiksu with minority complex.

  4. I’m sure glad somebody especially some known website master also recognized that the bkt is not just pork argument is moot and hypocritical and backed it up with Alvin and Vivian’s own apology.

    So I read that article and I’m surprised that some people are still sore about Ibrahim Ali’s blunder with the white ang pows. To me, this reflects badly on the Chinese considering at the time not only they took it but also didn’t protest at the time he gave them. So after that don’t expect leniency and goodwill from others. Malays only get spit even after they give to the Chinese. Apparently DS Najib is not alone.

    I don’t know what race is May, but bringing up the cow head incident to me only shows May’s hatred for Malays rather than concern for Indians. What can I say, there’s a limit to baik sangka, it’s not like I could expect any coming from May.

    Also those people seems to forget that Ibrahim Ali’s bible statement is caused by the opposition provoking Malays with their Allah in BM bible. Lim Guan Eng must be laughing.

    1. re: “I don’t know what race is May”

      I believe she is that prolific Chinese evangelical writer. You can find her usually in TMI and MK. And sometimes in Haris Ibrahim’s blog.

  5. using the same logic, iguana eng must also be charged for his call to share the kalimah Allah with christian under sedition act. if abdul rahman and ibrahim ali are to be reprimanded for inciting hatred and uneasiness/restlessness among Malaysians, so do iguana eng on the same matter.

  6. “It All Umno Fault” should be Chinese/DAP slogan. Than they can used it freely meh. It also fast becoming DAP tagline. Everything under the sun was Umno fault…. is that including their mistake during CEC????? I wonder…

    :D:D sarah

    1. It All Umno Fault should be Chinese/DAP slogan”

      Good idea. Suggest The J-Star use it instead of its present tagline “The People’s Paper”.

  7. Helen,

    4 lelaki didakwa culik Mun Tatt – Utusan Malaysia 23 Julai 2013. Hanya kerana bertindakbalas terhadap kebiadapan pasangan Alvivi, di mana Mun Tatt sendiri mengaku meletakkan babi di surau, mereka boleh dikenakan hukuman mati atau penjara seumur hidup dan jika tidak dihukum mati boleh dikenakan sebatan setelah didakwa mengikut Seksyen 3 Akta Penculikan 1961 yang dibaca bersama Seksyen 34 Kanun Keseksaan.

    Di Malaysia, orang Melayu sudah sampai tahap hilang sabar dan terpaksa mengambil tindakan sendiri memandangkan terlalu banyak kebiadapan cauvinis cina yang terlepas begitu sahaja.

    Adakah jika tidak kerana 4 lelaki ini, Alvivi mungkin masih bebas lepas berjalan tanpa perlu ditahan?

    Ya salah Umno juga kerja percaya kepada sokongan yang menikam balik setelah memberi layanan emas.

    1. re: “bertindakbalas terhadap kebiadapan pasangan Alvivi”

      Mengikut laporan The J-Star, 4 lelaki Islam yang ditangkap itu (bersama 2 orang lagi yang belum diberkas polis) telah menculik mangsa kerana mahukan wang tebusan RM3,000. Bermakna penculik-penculik itu akan mendapat (RM3,000 bahagi 6 =) RM500 setiap seorang.

      Mengikut laporan awal The J-Star, mangsa seorang remaja yang hanya berusia 15 tahun.

      Mengikut laporan The J-Star, mangsa tidak ada apa-apa kaitan dengan tindakan menghina agama Islam.

      Maka sesiapa yang membaca suratkhabar milik MCA itu akan beranggapan bahawa Ketua Polis Negara adalah seorang pembohong kerana mengaitkan kes penculikan ini dengan bab Alvivi.

      1. this issue have a potential hazard to trigger another curfew that any of us want.. under the provision of law in our country the sentence is death.. remember what ignites the 13th May racial riot?

        well i don’t know about all of you guys but if it does happen and due to the current situation and many untoward incident i guess it’s just around the corner… buckle up guys and to all my non malay countrymen, seek shelter under your malay friends arms…. that’s why we need the Internal Security Act…

        1. “that’s why we need the Internal Security Act…”

          We the Malays mostly want it but not the non-Malays. Even Utayakumar’s wife said the situation is better under ISA.

  8. I don’t understand why those people need to bring up old stories of Ibrahim and Abdul Rahman? Theirs are different. It was more of a reaction in the heat of the moment at that time. Out of what they perceived as undermining the religion of Islam in Malaysia’s Muslim majority country.

    Compared to what Alvivi did, those couple had went a little too far with their banter. It is a blatant act of disrespectfulness and total disregard of religious sensitivity towards fellow Muslims.

    Theirs were unprovoked and done out of sheer sickening joy. It was juvenile sense of humor, Siap ada logo halal yang tak tahan tu..

    Do you know you can’t played around with that kind of thing. Did you realized how sensitive it is? The Malays Muslims hold that emblem with highest regards as it is the first thing they look for before they put anything in their mouth.

    What they endured now should be a lesson for those who have the attention to do the same.

    Next time if you want to compare, please compare apple to apple.

    1. BS. The Christian also value their bible with highest regards but a Muslim minister can declare that the bible is wrongly printed and allow them to be burn! Can the same principle be used for the non Muslim to comment on Quran?

      1. MALAYSIAN,

        Muslims are not the ones insisting to use “jesus’ as their God.

        Let us not be hypocrite. The word ‘allah” was not even once mentioned in the bible, old or New King James version.

        1. Why not burn the Sikh bible as well who also used Allah for last 100 hundred years? After all your Allah and Christian is the SAME God but different in term of interpretation. What would God act if He see the 2 brothers killing each other just because the use of His name? Jesus is also one of your Prophet. What would Nabi Mohammed act if someone like these 2 idiots insulted Islam? Put them in jail? Kill them? or educate them about beauty of Islam?

          1. 1. “Why not burn the Sikh bible as well who also used Allah for last 100 hundred years?”

            They have adopted it since the founding of their religion that was in 15th. Century and in their own Motherland (In Punjab to exact). They just don’t suddenly come here want to adopt it like what the Christian in Malaysia want.

            2. After all your Allah and Christian is the SAME God but different in term of interpretation.

            This is where you are wrong. The Allah that our prophet Jesus and the Muslims believe in is the one only Allah. But according to Christianity Jesus is God, The Son of God and The Holly Spirit. So it is not the same.

            al-Ikhlâs – The Purity

            In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

            Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
            Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
            He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
            And there is none like unto Him.

            3. Jesus is also one of your Prophet.

            Yes you are right but he is not our GOD as opposed to what is stated in Christianity. You see the different between what is God and is Human?

            4. What would Nabi Mohammed act if someone like these 2 idiots insulted Islam? Put them in jail? Kill them? or educate them about beauty of Islam?

            Good question. It has always been our Prophet Mohammad’s quest to preach and educate people about Islam since he becomes the prophet. Depending on the extremity of the offense, there are various accounts of stories where he would take a diplomatic approach and failing which a more severe approach will be taken. Mind you that was the time where is no internet and it takes months to travel from one place to another sometimes. It is the beginning of Islam and awareness about it lacking.

            It is different now and I think everyone knows that PORK is HARAM to the Muslims and even Alvivi know that. In this disputed case, both of them are charged under secular law not the Syariah law. They will have their day in court to defend themselves.

            1. There you already stated the problem. Just because you don’t agree the trinity of God in Christianity doesn’t mean your definition of Allah must be true from the perspective of Christian and worse forcing them to agree with your Islamic point of view.

              The use of Allah is not only in East Malaysia, it is used in the most populated Muslim country in the world as well. Everyone think their religion view is the ONLY correct version. You hold this view as well as to the Malaysian Christian who are entitle to have their own view.

              But UMNO Muslim decide to force their view upon the non Muslim in Malaysia. This is unacceptable. This is why Islam is perceived as oppressive. This fiasco is mainly created by UMNO to use religion as their political tool. UMNO Muslim think that Malaysia Muslim are so weak in their faith that merely this word can change their religion.

              1. 1. “Just because you don’t agree the trinity of God in Christianity doesn’t mean your definition of Allah must be true ”

                As stated in Chapter Al-Kafirun

                Say, “O disbelievers, [1] I do not worship that which you worship, [2] nor do you worship the One whom I worship. [3] And neither I am going to worship that which you have worshipped, [4] nor will you worship the One whom I worship. [5] For you is your faith, and for me, my faith.” [6]

                It is not a matter of disagreement, it is a matter of difference and we as Muslims are to be abide by it. In brief this surah stated “your religion is your religion and my religion is my religion.”

                We are not the one who want to use Jesus as God in our Quran but you the Christian who wants to use Allah in your bible.

                2. But UMNO Muslim decide to force their view upon the non Muslim in Malaysia. This is unacceptable.

                Do you read bible in Bahasa Melayu or even have a good grasp of the Bahasa Melayu?

                Does at any time UMNO prevet you to practice your religion and your bible in your version with the kalimah Allah?

                No right? When you cross the boundary that is where we ask you to back off.

                Why not you all fight for Al Arqam, Kerajaan Ayah Pin, Al Maunah, and various deviant Islamic teaching that also uses Allah in their teaching and has been banned for good?

                4. The use of Allah is not only in East Malaysia, it is used in the most populated Muslim country in the world as well.

                Where ever you are you are abide by the law of the country.

                E.g. in Singapre the Muslims are not allowed to play loud Azan, they abide by it. In France, The Muslim are not allowed to wear Hijab; In the UK only recently they allowed the Azan for the Iftar to be aired on TV; In the US it was never aloowed.

                Except for the Hijab case in France where the Muslims did protest in any other country they abide by the law and they are still citizen of the respective countries.

                While in Greece acts like a Greek, While in Rome acts like a Roman. Dimana bumi dipijak di situ langit di junjung.

                5. UMNO Muslim think that Malaysia Muslim are so weak in their faith that merely this word can change their religion.

                It reflects the same view that the non-Malays especially the CINA DAP has on Pengajian Tamadun Islam.

                1. Edit:

                  Does at any time UMNO prevet you to practice your religion and your bible in your version without the kalimah Allah?

                  1. Please don’t insult the One True God with your 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 confusions.

                    It is not that we are not confident of our faith. We just couldn’t let you guys insults Allah SWT with the Council of Nicea BS.

                    Even Jesus peace be upon him, did not claim that he was God.

                    1. Islam1st,

                      Precisely. No problem if Christians wants to worship Jesus. by all mean, go ahead.

                      But do not try to equate Allah as what Muslim believe with that of Christian understanding. And please stop this moral high ground.

              2. Yes, yes, it’s all UMNO’s fault.
                Blame everything on UMNO.

                UMNO this,UMNO that, I’m not even an UMNO member or a voter and I think you’re all full of crap.

                Why don’t we all start asking why certain quarters want to use Allah and BM bibles so much in the first place?

              3. If u think god is Allah, why not insist god in all version of bibles be it mandarin, tamil, english, etc u name it to be changed to Allah. Why Iguana Eng insists on malay version only? This political animal is trying to pit the majority christian people of Sabah/Sarawak against Malay controlled Federal govt in order to obtain their votes in the last election. Why now, after the election, things are quiet now. Ask LGE, a stout christian himself, whether he actually believe his god is Allah!! The “father, the son and holy wife” is the biggest HYPOCRITE

      2. Is Allah ur God? Is it??

        If u guys value ur bible with highest regard, then by all means have some integrity with regards to who is ur god. Be true to ur religion. Be true to ur God. Or ur god can be anyone n anything that suits ur manipulative fancy.

        We never sold the name of our God nor change his name to suit our purpose. We know who is our Allah. His characteristics. Its all stated in Quran n its not the same as the god u worship.

        If u value ur bibble with highest regard, then by all means know ur god n stay true to him, n never ever sell him out!

      3. YES..YES.. kalau Quran is wrongly printed and you Chinese can prove it.. go ahead bakar the Quran ..but remember, the moslem has their own way of disposing Quran.. nor simply burn as surat khabar lama…

  9. You can’t ever burn enough “Allah-for-Tuhan” bibles to eradicate an abomination of Divinity, but the Quran tells us that God Most High is so jealous of human devotion that He will condemn to hell-fire those who make the One Absolute God a multiple entity like a 3-in-1 deity.

    Muslims are warned expressly against this abomination in surah 18 of the Quran. Ibrahim Ali may have been undiplomatic over this issue but really his move may save all those guilty of wilful scriptural amendments, from an eternal damnation!

    By the way, the first 10 verses of chapter 18 are recited for protection against the wiles of the Anti-Christ or Dajjal as he is known in Islam; who we are forewarned will be very powerful but who will bear false witness about God on High, and claim divinity for himself over humanity. May God on High save us all from our wilfulness!

    The Chapter of The Cave (surah 18 Al-Quran) verses 1-10
    [YouTube]

    Sebabnya turun wahyu surah Al-Kahfi: [YouTube]

    1. “You can’t ever burn enough “Allah-for-Tuhan” bibles to eradicate an abomination of Divinity, but the Quran tells us that God Most High is so jealous of human devotion that He will condemn to hell-fire those who make the One Absolute God a multiple entity like a 3-in-1 deity. ”

      al-Ikhlâs – The Purity

      In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

      Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
      Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
      He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
      And there is none like unto Him.

      1. Even the non-zionist traditional Jew would verify Allah as One and Only, a truth which some bad-hearted evengelicals are determined to corrupt: [YouTube]

        1. If the Christians especially Parkiam supporters can agree to God as described in the Surah Al Ikhlas, then we as Muslims see no problems to the call to use Allah in the bible. Otherwise you can stick to Tuhan.

          Allah is arabic. Bible Bahasa Melayu should use Tuhan.

          And I don’t think we should ape the Indonesians in this. Not ever. Their confusions is theirs and should not be made into one of ours.

          Furthermore we surely should not be aping the way they have treated their keturunan Tiong Hua over there. Hopefully malaysian and Malaysians can appreciate and see some senses in this.

          1. As I have said before when come to the use of “Allah” they refer and compare with the Indonesian . But when we want to abolish the SRJK as the Indonesian does, they refused .What a double standard mind…

  10. Helen,

    Aptly said.

    They (from DAP) will twist and turn. Final result is very predictable, though. All all said and done, now UMNO is to be blamed because porn couple simply refused to use brain before doing something foolish.

    Though I am critical of western world, I nevertheless sometimes do admire their “straight to the point” attitude when handling criticism. Guan Eng would not survive political arena say in UK or USA. He is too “double faced” and “too imperialistic”.

    It is a very simple issue actually. A couple who are not ashamed of their indiscretion went further by insulting a religion. Before, they brought shame to their parents, families.

    Now, they insulted a religion.

    So, what should be the action of Muslims in Malaysia? The majority of Muslims happen to be Malays. And predictably, they decided not to take lightly. They voiced up their anger.

    Initial “tidak apa” attitude of bereaucracy took notice. Now they too think this has gone too far.

    So, action was taken. The price being the couple needs to spend some time in “lockup” before the trial. Period.

    DAP being DAP will of course “akan fitnah sana sini”. Not surprising though. It is “inherent” nature of guan eng.

    Guan Eng practises it to perfection. Who could fault him? After all, his mentor is his father, for as long as I can remember, is known for “fiitnah”.

    A parting advice to Najib. If he intends to keep his job, then please perform. No need to “jaga hati”. What is required is a firm hand.

    If he cant do that, nobody will blame him. But please set aside. Nobody is indispensable, including the President oif UMNO.

    Malays saved UMNO at the last election. Next time around (if UMNO going to be so timid), they might not be that charitable to Najib.

    1. “Malays saved UMNO at the last election. Next time around (if UMNO going to be so timid), they might not be that charitable to Najib.”

      All of us will live HAPPILY EVER AFTER with Pakatan under DAP right?

      1. Lol,

        Living under DAP-Pakatan is tantamount living under Yahudi’s rule. Period.

        I must say that UMNO won partly by default. As Malays simply have no better alternatives. Simply they reject PAS for not having principle.

        Besides, Anwar is seen as paranoid. So, naturally the Malay votes went to UMNO. Not that they entirely pleased with Najib. Najib has the iirritating attitudes of pleasing those who reject BN. Worse still, he is seen as indifferent to Malay feeling.

    2. A parting advice to Najib. If he intends to keep his job, then please perform. No need to “jaga hati”. What is required is a firm hand.

      -bila cakap najib lembik+lembab, orang marah, tapi itu faktanya. kenapa nak bagi jaga hati cinabeng semua? hati melayubeng letak di mana?

    3. Agree… Najib should be toppled down within UMNO if he decided to stay till PRU 14.

  11. The Chinese (not all) are “sick” people. Sick in the heart and sick in the head. They just love to complicate matters – already well explained by Lafaylkuyi.

  12. Komtar Potentate : The kool aid is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

    Average wannabe politician : Is it possible to learn this power?

    Komtar Potentate : Not from an Umnoputra

    Bloody hell. Perhaps I am becoming jaded. I should stop posting for awhile.

  13. Firstly in the Alvin-Vivian case, people who place trust in our judiciary system do have legimate grounds for concern when the duo were not allowed bail when offenders with more serious crime were not denied bail. This naturally make people question will this going to be a fair trial or a trial shaped by public opinion?

    Secondly, how diferent is the sudden public support for ‘offenders” different in the Ng Mun Tatt case vs Alvin-Vivian?

    Ng mun tatt had denied insulting Islam. So the burden of proof is on the police. (Though the chief kept insisting it is related ) Some Malays had hailed the abductors Wira. My curiosity is how the Muslim community in general see the kidnappers?

    1. In this country, the Malay and Islam especially those from UMNO must be seen as right and correct. If they said Ng Mun Tatt hina Islam, that must be true.

      1. You are right. He is innocent until proven guilty. And he should be assumed innocent until evidence is turned up to prove otherwise.

        His assault was a vigilante action which is against the law and very troubling.

        My issue is with The Star‘s inaccurate reporting and possible misrepresentation of a worrying situation. I would be very, very worried by what had happened to him whatever version of the story is true.

        The fact that a Chinese youth was assaulted, allegedly by the 4 Muslim suspects – and even more worrying is the graffiti scrawled on his chest – is a cause for great concern beyond the individuals directly involved.

        1. “You are right. He is innocent until proven guilty. And he should be assumed innocent until evidence is turned up to prove otherwise”

          Ng Mun Tatt has never been charged for insulting Islam. Please don’t twist the news.

          In J-star he denied of knowing or having insulting Islam but in Utusan he admitted that he had thrown pig heads in the Surau.

          If you Dapster you will definitely tend to believe J-Star, If you are UMNO/Malays you are definitely tend to believe Utusan.

          1. Okay. So the Dapsters believe that Utusan is the Umno mouthpiece.

            The pro-establishment people believe that The J-Star is the DAP mouthpiece.

            So both newspapers have a trust deficit among the supporters of the opposite side.

            That’s why I think The J-Star is problematic when it said in its headline that the victim was a “teenager” who is 15 years ago as well as suppressed other details of the story.

            1. “That’s why I think The J-Star is problematic when it said in its headline that the victim was a “teenager” who is 15 years ago as well as suppressed other details of the story.”

              What about the unbelievable small amount of ransom of RM3000?

              Proton Versus Alphard?

              All his belongings were return to the girlfriend before the abduction?

              1. Now polis say it was a Perodua Alza. – Utusan, ‘Empat suspek kes culik bakal didakwa’ (19 Julai 2013)

                1. Some blogs tuduh the guy runner for kongsi gelap manning gambling cyber cafe?

                  Helen can you please shed some light on this?

        2. I FIRMLY STANDS BEHIND THE KIDNAPPERS if it’s true mantat or what ever the hell his name is did what he has been accused of.. if you crossed the line there’s a price you gotta pay.. no matter on what grounds… for all chinese evangelist out there… don’t trust the history books… ask your elders about who Malay really are..end of the story.

          1. I don’t.

            As much as I don’t support Bersih’s violent demos. I don’t support any act of violence on anyone, period. Not even towards the police or FRUs and definitely not on the reformasi demonstrators years ago by police and FRUs. I have seen it with my own eyes by the way.

            They four on the other hand may have different take on such issues. Just like some of us here think that it is OK to insult others and get away with it. From both of the divides, of course.

            Having a weak, non responsive government towards public sentiments also does not help. Weak leader breeds weak government which in turn will breeds social unrest and chaos.

            Tun M would not have let the problems see the light of day, let alone prolonging the mess, like what we have seen lately.

            Seriously Najib is simply out of touch. His utter silence on most issues crop up are simply baffling to say the least!

      2. “In this country, the Malay and Islam especially those from UMNO must be seen as right and correct. If they said Ng Mun Tatt hina Islam, that must be true.”

        It is the same as saying ” Apa Apa Pun Salah UMNO kan”, but never CINA DAP rigth?

    2. 1. “Firstly in the Alvin-Vivian case, people who place trust in our judiciary system do have legimate grounds for concern when the duo were not allowed bail when offenders with more serious crime were not denied bail.”

      They have three charges against them, insulting Islam is one of them, another is pornograhpy.

      Semalam, Timbalan Pendakwa Raya Noorin Badaruddin memohon supaya kedua-dua tertuduh tidak dibenarkan diikat jamin kerana pertuduhan dihadapi mereka mengikut Seksyen 298A (1) (a) Kanun Keseksaan dan Akta Penapisan Filem, adalah kesalahan yang tidak boleh dijamin.

      http://www.bharian.com.my/articles/Alvin_Vivianfailpermohonansemakankeputusantidakdibenarikatjamin/Article/

      2. “Ng mun tatt had denied insulting Islam.” So the burden of proof is on the police. (Though the chief kept insisting it is related ) .

      So did Alvin and Vivian both denied all charges against them. So did Melinda Gooi. So did the guy who insulted the Permaisuri Agong in Penang with his middle finger and even dare to challenge the Police by saying allegedly ” INI PENANG CINA PUNYA”. Not knowing that Penang still belongs to Kedah and only under a lease.

      You see the hypocrisy of your statement. “Ng Mum Tatt” is not guilty even before the case goes to court and the Police is the “untrusted” one.

      3. Some Malays had hailed the abductors Wira. My curiosity is how the Muslim community in general see the kidnappers?

      As a Muslim I don’t condone what the kidnappers did but if it is proven that they did it due to protect Islam, yes they are WIRA to me, otherwise they deserved the severe punishment awaited for them.

      1. “As a Muslim I don’t condone what the kidnappers did but if it is proven that they did it due to protect Islam, yes they are WIRA to me, otherwise they deserved the severe punishment awaited for them.”

        That’s why Islam is perceived as religion of violence because of Muslim like you who gave the bad name to Islam by condone the use of violence against non believers.

        1. I am glad to be labelled as one. In case you haven’t heard that there is a word call “Jihad”, to defend Islam.

          “That’s why Islam is perceived as religion of violence….”

          Who killed the Muslims in Palestine? Jew

          Who killed the Jew in Germany during Holocaust? the Christian

          Who killed the Muslims in Arakan Burma ? The Buddhist

          Did the Iraqi went into the western countries and attack them? and don’t give me the 9-11 and weapon of mass destruction (which was never found as an excuse.

          What do you have to say about that? Need a glass of water to wash your foot down in your mouth?

          1. Who killed the Armenians (Christian) in Turkey ? Muslims

            There are many words in Islam, most of the time they act as fait accompli.

            Pax Americana and the House of Saud has resulted in a kind of Islam that is the antithesis of what those Arabist found so appealing in its socialist ways.

            1. Conrad/Lol,

              It will go on and on.

              But the truth does hurt. With due respect to Conrad and to Christianity, I must say that Islam’s record compared to Christianity is much better.

              There is no “conversion or die” in islam. Territories were invaded but the subjects were not forced to embrace Islam.

              In Spanish Arab rule, Jews and Christianity were allowed to live and practised their faiths. The same thing did not apply when Isabella and Ferdinand took over in 1492.

              And for centuries, European Kingdoms had pogroms to kill the Jews, forcing them to migrate to Ottoman ruled territories.

              And Spanish flag also brought misery to native Latin Americas. The choice given was not pleasant: Convert or die. The same stories heard in Philipines when Muslim sultans were forced to renounce Islam and become Subject of Kings of Spain.

              Who could forget how British supplied opium to weaken China. And they showed no mercy when the burnt down the Imperial china Summer Palace

              Territories divided at their own pleasure. In 1824, Britain and Netherland in treaty in London divided Malay archpilego into two spheres. territories south of Singapore becomes Dutch sphere of influence. But they ignored the fact that they did not owned the territories in the first place. It belonged to Sultan of Johore then.

              So, Conrad, before you want to say about Islam, do check your facts on Christianity. Just because it is “full” with atrocities does not mean other civilisations are the same.

              I am not denying Islamic countries weaknesses. Rather I just want to remind you cruelty inflicted in the name of “Cross” is the worst.

              1. Shamsul,

                The “truth” does far more damage to your contention of the “weakness” of Islamic countries then it does the historical barbarity of Christianity.

                Colonialism brought much harm but it also brought much good. Although it would be disingenuous to make the claim that all Colonialist were the same, in terms of infrastructure, healthcare and education, In other words the colonial legacies has left the tools required for certain States to thrive in the modern world.

                You are mistaken about the “conversion or die” elements with regards to Islam and if you like I could provide links although it would just add to the tit for tat nature of conversations like these.

                The Cardoba example always crops up in conversations like these but the truth is far more complex. It is like saying that the Crusades was merely about a clash of cultures.

                Anti Semitism has a rich tradition in the Western world but the fact is it had been thoroughly documented. However to claim that under the Crescent everything was rosy, is a gross distortion of the truth.

                However you look upon the history of Malaya it would also be wise to note that the craving up of the country happened with the consent of the “Malay” rulers. Nobody certainly not me in any of my pieces has denied the negative impact of Colonialism.

                However perhaps it is you who should read up on the history of Islam to facilitate a better understanding of your Religion. A good place to start would be Milton Viorst’s sympathetic look at the Muslim world in “In the Shadow of the Prophet”.

                If you think that Islamic civilization is some how “better” in terms of its lack of barbarity, then perhaps Titas (as envisioned by the State) is not the right way to go.

                1. ‘Colonialism brought much harm but it also brought much good. Although it would be disingenuous to make the claim that all Colonialist were the same, in terms of infrastructure, healthcare and education, In other words the colonial legacies has left the tools required for certain States to thrive in the modern world.’

                  Surely they don’t come to kick start us to be modern nations. You must not be serious do you?

                  ‘A rough estimate, in many references indicates that about a Billion dollars in today’s dollars was transferred to Britain every year for about a hundred years. With this much drain over such a long period of time India was turning into a poor man. And when the British left, there was nothing else left for them to loot. If they wished to continue with their ways, then cost of transferring this amount of monies may exceed the cost of containing the independence movement, which was already afoot. Hence they left.’

                  Then how would you explain this?

                  Surely the British was not making Malaya from 3rd to 1st also. The reverse was certainly true.

                  But they seriously wants you to think so though. And it seems that they have been quite successful too.

                  1. Re: “Surely they don’t come to kick start us to be modern nations. You must not be serious do you?”

                    I never said they did. If you bother reading any of my post instead of assuming you know my position you would realize that I said that the rise and fall of Western Colonialism was predicated on political Christianity.

                    Re:”Then how would you explain this?”

                    Um…as the very nature of Colonialsim ? You may want to read my posts again and realize that the legacy of colonialism in India also includes a civil service, infrastructure and a special relationship with the West which made it easier to become a nuclear power.

                    Re: “Surely the British was not making Malaya from 3rd to 1st also. The reverse was certainly true”

                    Um, they certainly did better then many of the other powers , we were paying tribute to before they came.

                2. Conrad,

                  I understand. the truth hurts. Nobody can deny cruelty inflicted in the name of the “cross”. i meant no disrespect to christianity.

                  My point is very simple actually. Every time you mention about other religions, they too can remind you the unpleasant and brutal era of Conquistadores.

                  Crusade is not cultural clash. It is about religion used for personal gains, sacrificing ten of thousands knights from impoverished European kingdoms, not to mentioned casualty in Arab land.

                  I never paint anything about Crescent as rosy. I just stated the fact their records is comparable if not better than Christianity. Again no insult meant for Christianity.

                  As for “craving up of the country…” for the uninitiated then the sovereign sultan that ruled Labuan was not interested to cede Labuan to the British. But the presence of gunboats threatening to bombard the island changed his decision.

                  That is one example. History books were littered with narratives on how they deposed Sultan, emperor, King, Chiefs for not “kowtowing” to British.

                  1. While we may disagree with “their records is comparable if not better than Christianity”, I do think we are on the same page when it comes to this issue, that is “It is about religion used for personal gains”

                    Re: “History books were littered with narratives on how they deposed Sultan, emperor, King, Chiefs for not “kowtowing” to British.”

                    Very true. And I am glad you bring this up.

                    But on the whole British colonialism of Malaysia was more often then not done by the pen and not by gunboats. I think on this we can agree on.

                    1. Conrad,

                      Not so sure about that. Sultan Ahmad of Pahang refused British request in 1888 for a British Resident on His majesty’s royal court.

                      British responded with a veiled threat. Besides, they were then very manipulative.

            1. And the Hindus in the Babri Mosque massacres. Of course we can go tit for tat on who’s killing who forever.

              Associating Islam with violent by parroting Islamophobes around the world is very lame and in fact childish, mostly done with malice in mind.

              Christians colonialists had killed more Muslims worldwide. And this has not stopped. And what are we, the good people regardless of religion are doing to stopped?

              Pax Americana with the House of Saud had done more harm than good. This I would agree with Conrad.

              Sheikh Imran N Hosein had talked about it and also had criticised the way Constantinople was conquered extensively in his lectures.

              Perhaps Muslims and others may want to read and listen more to the great Sheikh as a change.

              1. Re: “Of course we can go tit for tat on who’s killing who forever.”

                Exactly my point. I realize lol didn’t start it and was merely responding to another poster but the thing to remember is, that political Islam is not something beyond criticism any more than American Neo imperialism, British Colonialism or the emerging clout of China.

                1. There is no such thing as Political Islam. Islam is Islam. Should not be taken partly as one fancy. Islam has always been political too. Not that I’m in agreement with the way PAS wants us all to go to. But Piagam Madinah is a testament to this.

                  Political Islam is an American Neo Imperialism rekayasa term. Just as they fancy to label observant Muslims, as fundamentalists and extremists then. And Islamist now. Islamo-fascism, the fancy coined term by Kissinger and his clouts is to legitimise uncle Sam and its Judeo-Christian Zionists pact to bomb Yemeni, Pakistanis and Afghans via drones.

                  As the saying goes, they are better off dead. So nobody should waste time defending these lunatics. The perang saraf on Islam and Muslims is ever more complicated and complex.

                  If Muslims involving themselves in the political movement being label as propagating (a failed) Political Islam, something that we should be wary of and perhaps put a stop too, then how would we label Angela Merkel’s CDU party? Political Christian? Shouldn’t we stop them too?

                  1. For reference readers may be interested in this piece for a view supporting islam1st :

                    http://syedsoutsidethebox.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-failure-of-political-islam.html

                    The term “political Islam” is not a misnomer for a variety of reasons, although I will concede like most American terms open for interpretations. Dismissing the term political Islam would be like dismissing the term “sub altern” merely because it is a post colonial term.

                    The fact that you disagree with the stance of PAS is indicative of a wide range of perspectives within the Islamic faith. Something which is implicit in the concept of political islam but which is always dismissed by the people who say there is only Islam as if it is some monolithic/heterogeneous ideology.

                    Furthermore the post Colonial fall of certain governments to varying strain of Islamist rule sliding on a secular scale (Malaysia included) who purport to establish themselves as Islamic models as opposed to secular ones is a far more persuasive argument than just dismissing the term as a neo Imperialist term.

                    I actually have no problem using the term Political Christianity but it would be more of reviving the term as opposed to a new phenomenon merely because the history of the Western world is predicated on the rise and fall of “political Christianity”. Also refer to the fluctuating base of the Republican party.

                    1. I have read the piece. I don’t even care to comment when I did, because Pak Syed had his own way of showing his love for Islam, I’m sure.

                      But the fact that you have to quote his piece to educate me about the so called failure of Political Islam is very telling. Reading his piece the other day had me thinking of the few who might want to quote this to belittle Islam furthermore, in good faith or otherwise. Although that may not be Pak Syed intention in the first place.

                      And when I read your comment putting up Political Islam, my mind had already gone Outsyed. Of course the term is nothing new. But the timing seems suspect enough.

                      Can you now see why I kept saying the MO is pretty ONE WAY?!

                      American pushing for their NWO agenda is telling the world that it is nothing wrong with Islam now, despite Bush’s Crusade remark. America had not changed it policies. What they did, sneakily too, is to rebrand the Islam that they wish to fight so that it won’t be seen by Muslims and non Muslims worldwide as a war against Islam.

                      Divide and Conquer still rules

                      By isolating and dividing the Muslims with term such as Political Islam they Judeo-Christian Zionist had successfully making us all, reasonable citizen of the world that they are not at war with Islam. What they are trying to stop is Political Islam.

                      What is really Political Islam?

                      Surely you can read the list listed by Pak Syed and be very enlightened. You might wanna come back and teach me a thing or two about my religion and my ummah.

                      To me, simply whomever (of course, Muslims first and foremost, otherwise the narratives would go bonk) is getting in the way of the Judeo-Christian Zionist NWO would be made obsolete once and for all. By telling the world about the advent of a failed Political Islam is only to condition the rest of the world including the Muslims themselves, to make them be zombie-like prepared, so that the process of eradicating these Muslims won’t be faced with a lot of resistance.

                      Me being Muslim, writing about this may not be a fitting narrative for me to be stylishly trustworthy as oppose to me being Muslim and writing about something to the likes of ‘The Problem With Islam’ for instance.

                      NWO has been quite successful so far of getting their way, ‘my way or the highway’ only, putting their hand into any cookie jar, they had lay their eyes on to. Anytime. Anywhere. Except maybe, Somalia, North Korea or Zimbabwe. Maybe.

                      Perhaps maybe you should be reading more of Tony Cartalucci and Robert Fisk.

                      BTW Fareed Zakaria is a liar!

                      Do ask me for url links if you can’t find any.

            2. Or Muslims killing Muslims in the Iraq/Iran War.

              Or the Taliban killing Muslims

              Or the FLN killing Muslims in Algeria and of course the French (Christian) killing Muslims in Algeria

              or maybe just maybe the politically correct term of Religion of Peace is a misnomer for any religion but especially egregious when applied to a Religion whose adherents insists otherwise.

              1. To an extent this is true. But dig deeper you will see the Judeo-Christian Zionists and its agents involvement. This has not been unreported. Talibans are CIA trained to fight the Russians.

                Iraq during the Iraq-Iran War has been armed by the American Military Complex under the guise of US supports just like whats happening in Syria right now. American, the Saud, Qatar and EU has been financing and arming Al Qaeda to overthrow Assad, the very soldier of fortune that has been used in Libya successfully!

                The NWO has been put in place and right now it seems that they need to weaken and subdue the Muslims and their countries. Arab Spring is not of arab origin. Don’t let the label fools you!

                And under the great scheme of things small country like us is not spared, it seems.

                1. On a thread mocking the sentiment of blaming UMNO for everything, you blame the vast Yank-Jew cabal….for everything.

                  However you are right about the American involvement in Afghanistan and lets face facts, the Middle East.

                  However their involvement does not take away from the fact that Muslims have been killing each other for centuries.

                  The Americans are only guilty of profiting from it and using them as proxies in another version of the Great Game.

                  1. For a non-Muslim, this is a fair view. I don’t expect you to be on toes on everything Islam and Muslims, for naturally you have other issues to worry about. That I understood.

                    But, I might want to add that the Judeo-Christian Zionist pact is not a myth. You don’t have to be a Muslim to read about it. And me putting up about the pact that may be foreign to you, would not tantamount to me denying about stupid Muslims killing one another as what we are seeing in Egypt, Syria or even Pakistan. They have only themselves to blame for their ignorance. But the fact that CIA’s having their hand in these countries is also a possibility for us to factor in to understand the issues. Haven’t you heard of the confessions made by John Perkins?

                    You might want to read on the CIA’s involvements in South Americas for some part of the document has been made available to the public with the introduction of the Freedom of Information Act.

                    1. Oh, I have no problem acknowledging the various secret and not so secret pacts between Zionist and Americans and Zionist and Arabs but however you should clarify that it is the Muslims themselves in certain regimes who seek out those alliance because they are suffering under autocratic Muslim rule. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

                      A good example of a mix of Muslim, South American and CIA malfeasances is the Iran/Contra scandal. I am very well aware of these hidden hands (to put it in a local context) that exist in the Muslim world.

                      And please remember that if Anwar is linked to these forces the same can be said of UMNO who have just as many tendrils attached to such forces merely because a stable autocratic Muslim rule has always been preferable to a unstable democratic rule.

                    2. Their hands are tied brother. But surely maybe not all of them. Yes you might have a point there. I agreed to a certain extent that they have nobody but themselves to blame.

                      But don’t tell me when FIS (that is Political Islam to you, I might add) had won the 1991 Algerian general election in the first round, a coup de tat was put in place because the people had asked for it. The literally poor Algerians has been put into the political mess and later by the civil war by none other but NWO and its agents trying to perhaps control regional politics. As simple as it may seems to sound. Lives lost are mere collateral damage. Just like what we are seeing in Syria.

                      Perhaps Egypt post Morsi may also comes to mind. You see the MO is pretty ONE WAY. It is not hard for you to see the pattern.

                      And what about after the brouhaha of the Palestinian 2006 election which had won by Hamas (that is also Political Islam to you, I hope you will be seeing how ridiculous the term is as more and more example thrown at you) for which the Uncle Sam choose to sidelined the democratically elected government of the day by giving them no legitimacy and bypassing them in the Palestinians discourse and financial aids.

                      It seems that Uncle Sam now would only wants to talk Peace Process with Fatah, the corrupt and inefficient party, it criticised time and again for the failures or the deadlocked of the peace process. Truly the Americans are not keeping their word to honour whomever the Palestinians may elect, prior to the election thinking Hamas would be made redundant by the democratic process. This is an Islamists (their term that I mirror, Muslims are Muslims not err nor but about it) who had fielded a Christian candidate and won. If they are the dangerous terror group, Palestinians should stay away from, why wouldn’t they banned the group altogether.

                      So how does that helps educating the Muslims that they do have freedom to choose their leaders and governments? And taking up arms is not the only way to go when faced with Judeo-Christian Zionists pact?!

                      And when I talked about South American’s governments being subjected to CIA’s dirty work. I really meant it. No, I’m not talking about the Irangate at all. I was referring to CIA intervention in Cuba, Chile, Guatemala, Mexico, Guyana, Ecuador, Brazil, Peru, Uruguay, Panama, Venezuela, El Salvador, Honduras, Haiti and few others. Its all over on the net, you might want to check it out.

                      ‘And please remember that if Anwar is linked to these forces the same can be said of UMNO who have just as many tendrils attached to such forces…’

                      Wrong. How could Anwar a person may be similar to UMNO with more than a million registered members? These are the logic that I would find hilarious if not stupid.

                      I may be in agreement with you should you implicate Najib of the same accusation since both are leaders in their own right. So you see why I kept saying that by blaming UMNO is definitely be dumbing down because it does not make sense most of the time. But hey I may be hating UMNO now more than you could imagine. But that’s is of course another story. Cerita dalam kain we don’t normally shares with strangers, you know.

                      By blaiming Najib I can seriously see the link since my theory has always been that these ‘forces’ will position themselves strategically from the both divides. Republican and Democrat. Anwar and Najib. Both have the Georgetown University connections.

                      ‘merely because a stable autocratic Muslim rule has always been preferable to a unstable democratic rule.’

                      Not all the time. Both are equally important. To a certain degree at certain time they may want to install a different sets of regime. Hosni Mubarak has been good. So has Saddam Hussein, Muamar Gadafi and other dictators (including Assad’s father) installed to suppressed Islamic revivalism post Ottoman’s Caliphate.

                      But when the people demanded more of civil liberty as in the case of the Arab Spring, then the Judeo-Christian Zionists pact would be putting in place populist leaders while trying to get their hand on these people. Should they failed in any manner to do so they would do a coup de tat. These are very flexible and very able group of professional people.

                      You might want to read about Hosni Mubarak rise to power. As well as others, including South Americans dictator like General Pinochet etc.

                      You might also want to read on the CIA-Ikhwanul Muslimin-Nazi link.

                      You might want to read about the Obama phone calls to Morsi telling him to give in, or face coup de tat. And isn’t it surprising that America would not label it as coup de tat nor it will stop the financial assistance to the illegitimate military junta? Egypt is an extremely poor country that rely on US aid for it to function. Stopping the financial aid would simply exhausted the junta onto its knees.

                      And maybe then, just a maybe, you will be able to see that, these people, the Judeo-Christian Zionists are quite flexible most of the time. You would need to study them hard enough for you to be able to almost smell their deeds from miles away.

                      Both ways won’t make them lose a bit! That’s why me and my circles smirk at the taught that real democracies are coming to the Arab’s world in the name of an Arab Spring, especially when some of us are aping these Arabs not knowing the fact that they have been taken for a ride of their life, and death!

                      The Arab Spring was already been discussed and simulated by study groups in various American think tank bodies. Sheikh Imran N Hosein also had foretold this years before it is actually took place years ago in Tunisia.

                      You might want to read about the worldwide population control put in place by various bodies too in various of ways. War is definitely one of the MO.

      2. lol,

        Press statement by Lawyers of Liberty on the denial of bail for Alvin and Vivian, calling it “heavy handed and overkill.”

        http://www.lawyersforliberty.org/2013/07/lfl-alvin-tan-and-vivian-lees-prosecution-and-denial-of-bail-are-heavy-handed-and-overkill/

        Quote: [So did Alvin and Vivian both denied all charges against them. So did Melinda Gooi. So did the guy who insulted the Permaisuri Agong in Penang…..]

        Those people you mentioned only denied the charges against them, they are not denying they never committed the act. I think this is a very big difference. For example, I accidentally hit another person and when I am brought to court, somehow the court charged me with attempted murder. Naturally I will deny the charges against me for what happened was not intentional and definitely not a murder attempt. So I am denying the charges, but I’m not denying I knock down that guy with my car. I know this is not the best illustration but hopefully you get the gist of it.

        Ng Mun Tat dude vehemently denied he ever insulted Islam straight out. The chief coming out to the press and saying otherwise is uncanny.

        Quote: [As a Muslim I don’t condone what the kidnappers did but if it is proven that they did it due to protect Islam, yes they are WIRA to me….]

        It is a frightening supposition taking the law into your own hands are OK if it serve your purpose. The question people who share your view should address is why on earth do you think Islam is not adequately protected in Malaysia?

        On a side note, why would the 4 defenders of Islam think they should be compensated with a few k for their righteous hard work?

        1. I think the four should have just apologise and put it on youtube. Maybe they can say that it was a stupid prank. Lets just see how the alvivi defenders fare this time…it would be interesting to study their take on it.

        2. “Those people you mentioned only denied the charges against them, they are not denying they never committed the act. I think this is a very big difference. For example, I accidentally hit another person and when I am brought to court, somehow the court charged me with attempted murder. Naturally I will deny the charges against me for what happened was not intentional and definitely not a murder attempt. So I am denying the charges, but I’m not denying I knock down that guy with my car. I know this is not the best illustration but hopefully you get the gist of it.”

          Spin all that you want and while you still can…

          Please learn to compare apple to apple and not apple to orange. In your given example about a case of “accidentally hit another person” and charges with “attempted murder” . In their case they have insulted Islam and Ramadhan (they have admitted it in youtube), They posted pornography in their FB.

          Please read a different view over the same issue here by non-Malaysian.

          http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20130723-439183.html

          Let them have their day in court…..

          1. lol

            Quote: [Spin all that you want and while you still can…
            Please learn to compare apple to apple and not apple to orange. In your given example about a case of “accidentally hit another person” and charges with “attempted murder”..]

            Spin? I said Ng Mun Tatt denied insulting Islam and you implied his denial meant nothing considering others (you named Alvin-Vivian, Gooi, etc) also denied their charges despite overwhelming evidence. Only then I proceeded to explain denial of charges/intent do not mean they (the duo, Gooi etc) are denying they never did what they did. Unlike Ng.

            To discount the veracity of Ng Mun Tat’s police statement because others like Alvin-Vivian, Gooi etc ‘denied their charges’ is lacking in the fairness department.

            By the way, those who still doubt whether the Ng abductors extorted 3k ransom from him or not, the charges against the 4 men is self explanatory….

            “SHAH ALAM (July 22): Four men were charged in the Magistrate’s Court here today for abducting an unemployed man for ransom of RM3,000 and then left the victim, who was stripped naked, along the Duke Expressway last week.”

            Read more: http://www.fz.com/content/4-men-charged-abducting-ng-mun-tatt#ixzz2ZuoRZbuq

            1. “By the way, those who still doubt whether the Ng abductors extorted 3k ransom from him or not, the charges against the 4 men is self explanatory….”

              Well shouldn’t we all not doubt about charges against Alvin and Vivian too?

              Hypocrite…

        3. “On a side note, why would the 4 defenders of Islam think they should be compensated with a few k for their righteous hard work?”

          There you go again. There is a contradicting story over the ransom, even Helen feel that it is too small of ransom. Let the court decides whether there is actually money involved. They are being remanded and let them have their day in court.

  14. isu pokok d sini tindakan pornstar couples mghina org Islam dgn bkt.

    Ibrahim Ali nak bakar Bibles yg ada perkataan Allah krn Allah tak blh d gunapakai dlm Bibles berbahasa Melayu d Semenanjong Malaysia.

    jd tidak kah tindakan pornstar mghina Islam? klu ye ngape pertikaikan?

    adakah tindakan Ibrahim Ali itu selari dgn keputusan kerajaan dan Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan? klu selari ngape marah sama Ibrahim Ali marah lah Majlis Fatwa???

    masalah skrg isu2 perkauman dan agama d putar belitkan oleh politikus2 yg tak bertgungjawab krn terdapat politikus2 ini bekas banduan, bekas tahanan politik, bekas tahanan EO yg sepatotnya “ban/bar” mereka dpd memegang sebarang jawatan politik.

  15. Someone just put a photo in FB alleged Sekolah kebangsaan Sri Pristana putting the non Muslim in TOILET to have their food during Puasa month. Hope this is just a red bean army work, otherwise is going to cause a storm again.

    1. “On why the Malaysian authorities charged the couple over the pornographic images only last week, Mr Singh said they might have been prepared to give the duo a chance.

      “However, the two continued to push the envelope. They became bolder,” he said.

      EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING All This While

  16. Re Islam1st, post 83

    I did not intend to educate you on your religion or political Islam. The only reason why I linked to it was because 1. It supported your point and 2. Unlike some people, I really want people to be exposed to a diverse range of ideas.

    Could you please direct me to where I belittle Islam? So let me get this straight, Shamsul gets to talk about how Islam is better than the Cross but I don’t get to refute that? Is this how Islam is better?

    Now, you may object to the term political Islam but you have not engaged with my points as to the relevancy of the term. My definition of the term (which you are free to agree with) includes, a diversity of thought, schisms, interpretation of dogma, etc.

    The problem with your MO theory is that you interpret any criticism of Islam as an attack on Islam. You don’t rebut or concede points merely dismiss and claim that everything wrong with the Islamic world and Islam is the result of a vast American/Zionist/Christian conspiracy in support of a NWO.

    Americans are not the only ones attempting to rebrand Islam, Muslims do it all the time. Now the popular fallacy is Religion of Peace.

    Closer to home, PAS and UMNO are attempting to push their own brand. Helen and I had this very discussion on the changing face of Islam and the Malay community.

    There is no war against Islam. Remember only Islam as someone here reminded us, has the concept of Jihad. The yanks love the Arabs and wants the House of Saud/Wahhabis to be in control. Currently they are making nice with the Taliban.

    Does this mean there is no clash of civilizations (sic)? Perhaps but if there is petro dollars will fund both extremist sides when this happens.

    Muslims isolate themselves. Besides the major schisms, they have been embroiled in countless wars in the Middle East, in which the Americans and Saudis have profited from.

    On a cultural level their integration rate in foreign culture is anything resembling reasonable and in their own cultures they are at war between reformers and conservatives.

    You will have no argument with me about American foreign policy but American foreign policy is not the sole problem of Muslims. And yes Zakaria is a wanker but this does not detract from the fact that there are many serious problems with conservative Muslim thought.

    BTW, I think Robert Fisk is perhaps one of the greatest journalist alive. I think his magnum opus The Great War For Civilization : The Conquest of the Middle East, should be required reading for anyone interested in Islam and the Middle East.

    If you have the book you should read to his musing on the Syrian press and the nature of hypocrisy. It is applicable here.

  17. Re islam1st #89

    You are preaching to the converted when you list down, examples of American hegemonic interference in countries around the world. However in all those cases you miss an important point. Muslim or groups of them were interested in hegemonic interest of their own.

    The Americans merely facilitated these interests because it suited their agenda. Well when I say American , you can substitute specific Western powers when applicable.

    Re: “So how does that helps educating the Muslims that they do have freedom to choose their leaders and governments?”

    Take a page from Robert Frisk. Muslims have to decide from themselves if their insular worldview with regards to their religion has helped or hindered them. As he says blaming everything on the West conspircay is convenient but not helpful when it comes to reformation.

    Re: “Wrong. How could Anwar a person may be similar to UMNO with more than a million registered members?”

    Look back the numerous examples you gave and discover the personalities or individuals behind them. Anwar and Najib are puppets leading differing power bases. American hegemonic interests always, always target individuals to further their interests.

    Re: “…..then the Judeo-Christian Zionists pact would be putting in place populist leaders while trying to get their hand on these people.”

    See, you do understand this concept. Now revert back to Anwar and
    Najib and the fallacy of assuming that blaming UMNO or PKR or the DAP or PAS for everything is wrong in this context.

    1. Reply to islam1 #81

      The Anglo-Siamese treaty is but one example but really we are dealing with a pre colonial feudalistic history.

      1. Tell me more about the paying tribute thingy?

        Who is paying to whom?

        Tell me more of our feudalistic history if you must.

        1. Re” Who is paying to whom”

          I have already given you an example, Google it and get back to me. I don’t expect you to do my work for me, don’t expect me to do yours.

          Re: “Tell me more of our feudalistic history if you must”

          Go read anything by Syed Hussein Alatas specifically :

          Modernization and Social Change in Southeast Asia but more importantly his : Feudalism in Malaysian society : A study in historical continuity

            1. Which country do you want to talk about ? I referenced India. Do you want to know the side effects of colonialism on Malaysia ?

  18. Re: Shamsul post #84

    The British were filled with threats, that’s how they got people to sign on the dotted line. However they were also filled with violence as those who refused to sign discovered.

    As I always say, the difference between a negotiated independence and a fought one, is the difference between ink and blood. However these days some in Malaysia have this revisionist line of thinking that we were never a colony. If that’s the case, what you and I say here and now is a moot point.

    1. Conrad,

      The argument whether we were once a colony or mere protectorate is academic.

      But if letter of law is to be followed, the 9Malay states were not colonies. They were known as protectorates, Meaning they had their own set of administration recognised by the whole world. No doubt that a British resident overlorded the ruler.

      Which bring the fact that in order to change the status to outright colony, London despatched an envoy to get the Malay ruler’s consents. Not because London loved the Rulers. Rather while London being a colonial empire known for being cunning, they were also legalistic.

      Again, at eve of independence the instrument of independence was actually signed by Malay Rulers and Queen of England(represented by her Majesty’s High Commisioner).

      BUT IN REALITY, the world itself never had time to differentiate between colony and protectorates. It makes no difference to the world.

      The colonies were Penang and Malacca.

      So, actually it is not wrong to say we(meaning the 9 states) were not colonies. Even British did not say we were colonies. To them, Malay states(9 states) were protectorates. ONLY LONDON treated us like colonies despite saying otherwise.

      As for negotiated independence, this is where I salute British. They unlike other colonial powers know when the leave. and they left with pomp ad pageantry.

      Just compare with Holland that simply refused to accept reality that the days of imperial rule was over in indonesia. They dragged on waging war with Sukarno for 4 years until it was clear that they already lost Indonesia.

      But British when the realised that they cant prolong the rule in Malay states agreed to leave. As such, we have a colourful ceremony in Stadium Merdeka to proclaim Independence.

      And the last British Envoy was given a proper sent off.

      The British simply knows how to leave in style.

      1. Shamsul,

        I was going to get into with you about the whole revisionist history but your last line “The British simply knows how to leave in style.” was a kicker in a good way.

        Well played.

        1. Conrad,

          Revisionist is one thing. Refusing to accept reality is a bigger issue.

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