One commenter mdsabu @ 2013/07/25 at 6:46 am had insisted that the Sekolah Kebangsaan Seri Pristana principal “would have made the decision to let the non-muslim eat in the renovated ‘dining room’ so that it would not be inconvenience for the strong based muslim that are studying in his school!”
I replied: “How would allowing 28 non-Muslim pupils to use a small section of the canteen cause any inconvenience for ‘the strong based muslim that are studying in his school’?”
Below is mdsabu’s further response.
With all due respect,
Despite of most muslim (except in Dubai and Saudi) being ok with people (non) eating in front of them during puasa, it does not mean that it is convenience.
The truth is, it is inconvenience. If the non muslims pupils eat within that small section of open canteen…publicly showing them indulging..what do you think the muslim kids feel?…as I said it does cause inconvenience to the majority muslim.
Having said all the above, I personally couldnt care less whether you guys want to eat front, left, right or back of me.
I live here in Australia where majority is non muslim. A lot of my white friend when I told them that I am fasting naturally refrain from eating within my sight. I dont even have to instruct or force them to do so…The irony is back in Malaysia where muslim is majority, it seems like everything has to be the hardway..the difficultway…
By the way, I have also lived in UAE, if you eat publicly over there in Ramadhan, you will even get jail. My white friend has to resort to eating in toilet…that is literally a toilet with the mangkuk tandas not the “super clean” changing/shower room kind of toilet.
mdsabu’s comment originally @ 2013/07/25 at 12:01 pm
I dunno if the majority of Malay readers agree or disagree with his views. But I’m sure all of us non-Muslims are curious to know.
345 thoughts on “School canteen: Getting upset when see non-Muslims eating (?)”
” If the non muslims pupils eat within that small section of open canteen…publicly showing them indulging..what do you think the muslim kids feel? ”
sorry. I dun agree on this. fasting is fasting and we shud know why we are fasting. we dun hv to worry about other ppl eating around us as long u know what and why u are doing it … in a multi racial community like malaysia .. this is quite norm and I dun really mind even since my schooldays … then what if those ppl working in a fast food restaurant …?? we have to segregate ” yang harus and yang wajib ” … respect others so that others will respect you …
Never was a concern when I was a kid. Never go to the canteen so I dont know whats going on.
Its these hindus and catholics trying to demonise muslims just like in europe. Really I dont know of anyone who object except for that stupid colunist in NST who grumbled about chinese starting to eat first. Hell i used to eat first too as I dont fast hehehe nowadays.
This is the curious thing. Some Malays nowadays become concious of fasting showing how good and pious they are. At the same time they show impatience and feeling of righteousness which was never there before and should not be.
Kalau kita makan depan orang puasa we always joke this will add to the dugaan and therefore tambah pahala.
That stupid NST editor is really the epitome of selfconucious piety of the rich malays. Eating in hotel. 80 ringgit is not much but that is enough to bring his ego no religous attitude out.
In the first place Malays are always humble almost to the fault. Breakfasting in an expensive hotel is wasteful and dosa eough but to expect others to fast too is really un Malay. I think the Arabs forced foreigners not to eat in public.
but we are malay and many malays dont fast.
re: “That stupid NST editor [who grumbled about chinese starting to eat first] is really the epitome of self-conscious piety of the rich malays.”
Why don’t he start a Projek Pemutihan Buffet to compel the hotel/club to make the buffet exclusive so that only Muslims can dine (just like some restaurants serving pork are non-Muslim exclusive) to synchronize the timing so that all the diners can tuck into their first bite only after the call of azan.
“Kalau kita makan depan orang puasa we always joke this will add to the dugaan and therefore tambah pahala.”
1. Definasi memperolok-olok agama Islam.
Adapun definasi memperolok-olok agama, dalam bahasa arab disebut dengan (al-istihza’) dia adalah masdar dari kata istahza’a yastahzi’u yang bermakna mengejek atau bergurau secara halus, atau memperolok dan mempermainkan.
2. Hukum memperolok-olok agama
Adapun hukum memperolok-olok agama adalah kufur dan termasuk salah satu dari sepuluh perkara yang boleh membatalkan keislaman seseorang, seperti telah disebutkan oleh para ulama. Dan ini adalah termasuk dalam sifat orang munafiq yang paling utama. Dan dalil-dalil yang menegaskan hal tersebut sangat banyak:
Maksud firman Allah;
“Mereka (orang-orang munafik itu) bersumpah dengan (nama (Allah,
bahwa mereka tidak mengatakan (sesuatu yang menyakitimu).
Sesungguhnya mereka telah mengucapkan perkataan kekafiran, dan telah
menjadi kafir sesudah Islam, dan menginginkan apa yang mereka tidak
dapat mencapainya”.(QS. Al-Taubah: 74)
Allah SWT berfirman bermaksud:
“Sesungguhnya orang-orang yang berdosa, adalah mereka yang dahulunya (di dunia) menertawakan orang-orang yang beriman. Dan apabila orang-orang yang beriman lewat di hadapan mereka, mereka saling mengedip-ngedipkan matanya. Dan apabila orang-orang berdosa itu kembali kepada kaumnya, mereka kembali dengan gembira. Dan apabila mereka melihat orang-orang mukmin, mereka mengatakan: “Sesungguhnya mereka itu benar-benar orang-orang yang sesat”, (QS. Al-Muthafifin: 29-32)
Allah SWT berfirman bermaksud;
“Dan jika kamu tanyakan kepada mereka (tentang apa yang mereka lakukan itu), tentulah mereka akan menjawab: “Sesungguhnya kami hanyalah bersenda gurau dan bermain-main saja”. Katakanlah: “Apakah dengan Allah, ayat-ayat -Nya dan Rasul -Nya kamu selalu berolok-olok?”.
(QS. Al-Taubah: 65)
How do u know many Malays dont fast? Jangan mempersendakan keimanan seseorg.
veteran, the Malays that i know dont fast for their own reasons. Sakit, letih, tak tahan lapar, kerja berat etc. Bulan puasa..bulan lah puasa.
The one that fast sound like you. Keimanan seseorang tuhan saja yang tahu.
Kalau fikir anda alim ahli syurga itu ko punya hal. Kita orang tak puasa kita punya hal lah.
Puasa orang pun ko nak ambik tahu. lol.
Orang arab pergi space tak puasa. Org melayu sibuk mcm mana nak puasa, satu hari cuma 10 minit je..lol..haha.
Ko dan lol contoh islam totok. Orang Mesir pun tak nak Muslim Brothers haha..
Kenapa gua melayu gua perlu ambil serius apa orang arab cakap? Relax bro.
Kau berdua patut ikut contoh panglima PAS Mat Sabu dan Tok pa. Bantai je..hehe. PAS…pasti ada seks.
“Ko dan lol contoh islam totok.”
Ko pula KAFIR HARBI ke? Kalau bukan ingat-ingat MAUT yang sentiasa hampir setiap detik berlalu.
Alhamdulillah, kami masih orang Islam.
Kacang merah tu. Tengok BM lubang jamban dia pun kenal!
Actually the kids dont feel anything. Its the adults malays, some new religion conciousness that go to tarawih as a pride, putting pictures of themselves in telekung, jubah etc.
Its not spritiual islam but a new fad I would say where everyone enjoy putting on a religious show as it feel good. Its the new Islamic freedom.
You can have your cake and eat it too. You can be pious like the arabs yet fuck like a monkey in hotel rooms or train.
Its the new Malay religion. Wear tudung and sing jazz like Yuna, mix freely with men and go to alcohol bar. She is a pure soul untouch by her surrounding or so she would like us to believe.
This is almost the same as the famous AI, wear a jubah, Tok Sheikh, yet main belakang. the Malays take it all as joke. PAS, Secretary General small genital is for all to see but he is still the Islamic party Sec Gen. That is why this can be term the new malay religion.
But who can blame them. Who can live like Arabs?
“Its not spritiual islam but a new fad I would say where everyone enjoy putting on a religious show as it feel good. Its the new Islamic freedom.”
Just because you don’t practice or do it, who gave you the right judge other people religious conviction.
“This is almost the same as the famous AI, wear a jubah, Tok Sheikh, yet main belakang. the Malays take it all as joke. PAS, Secretary General small genital is for all to see but he is still the Islamic party Sec Gen. That is why this can be term the new Malay religion.”
Are you saying that just because there is a few rotten apples, everybody else is the same as well?
Personally I disagree and some Arab countries practices and laws just should not be followed.
Well, that’s for Arab countries, we also have the most populous Muslim country just next door, what do they do for Ramadan?
Non Muslim restaurants and food stalls still open, people can still eat in public, I have seen even Muslims in veil eating so if you have an excuse, even Muslims don’t have to fear getting accosted. However, restaurants usually put up curtains or things of the sort so that fasting Muslims don’t see people eating. Also probably helps to cover up Muslims not fasting, hahaha. They have the same in Malaysia, right?
Though there are extremists who actually raid and harass open food stalls, and the most notorious, an Islamic Defenders Front has a lot of supporters and detractors equally among Muslims.
IMO, maybe this is more a matter of mutual respect and tolerance rather than laws.
I agree with you, whatever reasons people have with regard to this issue it is still at best a matter of mutual respect and tolerance.
if they were the muslims pupils eating in the so called ‘toilet’….will they care?? i dont think it be any issue for them.
We the malay/muslim give in too much, maybe because we are “lebih berhemah”, and bcoz of the “lebih berhemah” character we are being taken advantage off.
This just show how strong yt Muslim faith and determination in fasting. I thought in Ramadan Muslim are suppose to show how strong you are in resisting urge to eat. If you are easily be swayed by merely the sight of seeing others eating, there is no point of you to fast in this holy month.
‘This just show how strong yt Muslim faith and determination in fasting. I thought in Ramadan Muslim are suppose to show how strong you are in resisting urge to eat.’
Most of us surely are.
‘If you are easily be swayed by merely the sight of seeing others eating,…’
The Aussie up there talking about kids. And that is a matter of his opinion. He is being Aussie blunt.
‘…there is no point of you to fast in this holy month.’
Who/What give you authority to say that, again?!
Look, young kids need to train and practice fasting. During their formation years, this is the period where we the parents educate them on the practices of Islam. Don’t talk about your iman to a 7, 8 year old kids. It’s just not the same. Perhaps the non Muslim too ought to teach their children tolerance, understanding and respect towards Muslim pupils who are fasting, just as much as you demand the Muslims to respect yours. Heck, we even proclaimed public holidays for your holy days. What gives?
You mean to teach them to respect the Muslim, they have to hide and eat?
The non Muslim in the schools are being asked to take the food at specific time (recess time) and specific place (canteen).
You can even put them in a small corner but not making them feel that eating is some kind of sin for them.
You can teach the young Muslim that this is the difference of being a Muslim in this particular month and be proud of it.
This is totally out of context….just because you are not easily swayed by an act of something…does that make it convenient?
As you yourself said, In fact a lot of act of ibadah like fasting, praying, not having missus involve ones to refrain himself from this “urges” to some extent.
It is because we endure this inconveniences, that it is called ibadah and dapat pahala insyallah…
Excuse me please mdsabu your expressions are quite blurry:
WHAT is totally out of context? (use “REFERENCE”)
RE: “It is because we endure these inconveniences that is called ibadah and dapat pahala insyallah…”
So if this is your position, that the inner self-control is what makes for rewardable ibadah, so your original complaint sudah takde problemo bukan? You dah jelas on the matter kan? But your position on the matter keeps shifting from your original complaint.
Please refer to comment #88 for my “inconvenient” context.
I think you totally missed my point with “So if this is your position, that the inner self-control is what makes for rewardable ibadah, so your original complaint sudah takde problemo bukan? ”
It never has been a problem to me…..go read back carefully what I wrote…
The fact that it is no longer a problem does not mean that it is no more inconvenience.
The fact that it is tak apa does not also meant that it is not an inconvenient…
If you fail to comprehend this then what more can I say?
Thank you for stating: ” your position on the matter keeps shifting from your original complaint”.
Now pray tell me where in this whole comment section did I change my position?
I have always been saying that it is inconvenient and never one did I backflip saying that it is convenient….???
Teach your kids to respect others, explain to them that their muslim friends are fasting and what muslim fasting is all about, unlike fasting by non muslims where certain food and drinks can be taken.
Instill the respect for others in them from young and i am sure all will benefit.
Well for me – I totally disagree. How can I be inconvenienced by non-muslims eating in front of me? If I am doing it (read: fasting) for God, and I am doing it with sincerity, food/drinks/cigarettes will not matter to me.
anakjamil dan imran shaari,
tentunya saya pun sama tak setuju dengan pendapat md sabu. non-muslim makan dan minum di depan saya yang berpuasa kerana Allah tentu tidak menjejaskan saya.
sebab….? sebab saya seorang muslim dewasa.
tetapi, apa yg mdsabu maksudkan ialah perihal anak-anak di sk pristana termasuk anak-anak muslim di semua sk yang baru tahun 1. ada antaranya baru belajar puasa…
tentulah tak sama dengan org dewasa dalam berpuasa kan?
mungkin ada benarnya apa yg dikatakan md sabu…….
Memang benar murid sekolah rendah lebih mudah terjejas sekiranya murid bukan Islam makan/minum di hadapan mereka.
Tetapi, adakah ini alasan untuk meletakkan murid bukan Islam makan/minum di bilik persalinan?
Tak kira apa jua alasan sekalipun, kita selaku orang dewasa yang matang tidak akan menyuruh murid sekolah rendah untuk makan/minum di bilik persalinan tak kira mereka itu Islam ataupun bukan Islam.
What we have become? Aren’t we having no balls anymore? The Muslim majority in this country no longer brave enough to stamp their authority. Afraid of being accused of and being called names by the minority. We are increasingly becoming weak and hopeless. Always being bullied.
re: “Always being bullied.”
You mean if you’re fasting and I take my lunch break, I’m bullying you?
Why do you come to the canteen then which is a place for people to have meals. You cannot go to the school library, meh?
Or why not during recess, you sit in the empty canteen and I take my home-packed sandwich to eat instead in the library. Also can, as long as the bully and the bullied are separated in different public spaces.
‘Why do you come to the canteen then which is a place for people to have meals. You cannot go to the school library, meh?’
Yea, I remember this, going to the library. And it would be a shame for anyone to be caught being in the canteen.
Maybe bullied in the bigger sense of the word. Any issue also our fault kut. Probably that is what he is saying, I guess.
This is the result of PRU13. This is the voice of the silent majority Malays. After Tun M, we feel that the government always pay more attention to issue brought up by DAPster and the 90% Chinese.
Whenever Perkasa, Ibrahim Ali and Zul Nordin voiced their strong view, it will be labelled as racist by this particular group. Very often than not the government will concede. But if group like Dong Zong, and people like Karpal Singh, LKS, LGE, Theresa Kok, Hannah Yeoh voice their concern, it will be viewed as protecting their right and interest.
I don’t thing that the Malay majority will sit still and be diplomatic about any issue affecting them anymore.
Ngeh Brothers. Nga, Namewee, Melissa Gooi and puking kakis on FB, anyone care to add to the list. Let us brought their name and their seditious acts to ask the gomen to take action instead.
Talk some senses won’t work it seems. Dah lama dah…
We are weak because our PM is weak and a mengampu Cina. I hope come UMNO ge, he will be replaced by a more able leader and an ultra Malay like our Tun Dr Mahathir.
Guru besar dah minta maaf, begitu juga dengan Kementerian. Kenapa mahu dibincangkan lagi isu ini?
Sebenarnya secara sedar atau tidak, ada golongan bukan Melayu mahu menunjukkan bahawa keputusan mereka tidak menghantar anak ke sekolah kebangsaan adalah betul kerana kalau dihantar ke sekolah kebangsaan yang ramai Melayu, anak mereka akan “ditindas” seperti ini.
Padahal sebelum ini, di tempat yang sama orang Melayu pun pernah makan.
Sebenarnya pelbagai alasan akan dicipta untuk tidak mahu bersekolah di sekolah kebangsaan.
Saya mahu cerita isu lain pasal kes Alvin dan Vivian, bila hakim mahkamah sesyen tidak bagi jamin dikatakan hakim Melayu tidak adil. Bila hakim Mahkamah Tinggi membenarkan jamin dikatakan terlalu tinggi RM30,000 untuk pasangan yang tidak bekerja.
quote,”Guru besar dah minta maaf, begitu juga dengan Kementerian. Kenapa mahu dibincangkan lagi isu ini?”unquote.
Helen seems very persistent to continue with the discussion and debate over the issue in her blog. Well, Helen, it’s reported in the J-Star online that the poor Guru besar was told to take one week off and stay away from the school. Is there anything else that you want the Education Minister to do to appease you?
I won’t comment any longer on this issue in your blog.
At first I thought Helen was different from the cHINA DAPigs but apparently I was wrong. Helen is now beginning to show her true keCinaan color! This case should not be an issue anymore as the HM has apologized.
re: “Helen is now beginning to show her true keCinaan color!”
Some Muslims expect that young pupils should be put away in a dark, stuffy corner and hidden from view if they are hungry (they’re little kids, of course they’re hungry — they didn’t bersahur) and want to eat during recess (break time allocated for meal) in the canteen (proper place set aside for dining).
The way you say it, some Malays similarly expect that we should be put away our “true Kecinaan colour” in a dark, stuffy corner and hidden from view too just because we live in a Muslim-majority control where the political sphere is thoroughly controlled by the Malays.
I can also say it back to you that you are revealing your “true keMelayuan colour”. Ironically, saying this (accusation of keMelayuan) won’t have a negative impact in my blog. But said in the Dapster watering holes, it will.
re: “This case should not be an issue anymore as the HM has apologized.”
It will be an issue until the truth is unearthed. There has been police reports made against the HM.
Even now the media is taking sides.
Because of your race has become more biaDAP, most Malays, myself included have become ultra Malays and racists.
What went wrong? Small issues have turned into big issues and anti-Malay/anti-Islam bashing!
Since the HM case has gone to the authorities, let them handle it. Why should you keep on harping on the same issue? Oh! I forgot! You are also one of those who support vernacular schools. That another prove about your keCinaan color!
re: “Small issues have turned into big issues and anti-Malay/anti-Islam bashing!”
Same-same. Anti-Chinese bashing going on as well.
I just think that is a bit unfair to Helen. We should not be jumping the gun as yet. Everyone here is equally guilty to be talking about this. Helen put it up to the floor and it is who give colours to the debate.
Just because this valid concern (it is valid however seditious the mom wrote the so called pleas) became the issue this time, we can’t be accusing Helen being racially motivated. She is a cocern citizen.
The concern was/is genuine. Why are harassing her at her blog. We can just leave right? She is the tuan rumah anyway. Think that she don’t walk the talk. Stay away from her blog. Simple right?
“It will be an issue until the truth is unearthed. There has been police reports made against the HM.”
The HM has also made a police report after receiving a call with death threat fyi.
“Helen seems very persistent…”
That’s because there will probably be another similar Sri Pristana episode waiting to happen in the future, just a matter of time.
And also, isn’t this merit a serious discussion because this concerns our kids and the state of our education system in general? Most people failed to see that this is one of the reasons why non-Malay parents are shunning national schools (and why vernacular schools are gaining resurgence in recent years).
Here’s what Art Harun wrote yesterday:-
“The small number of non-Malay kids also gives a sense of false superiority complex to the Malay kids as well as teachers.
Thus, my race and my religion are more important than you, your religion and everything else.
Hence the closure of the school canteen during Ramadhan.
This is prevailing in many national schools. Apparently, this is done to “respect” the Muslim students who are fasting.
Forget the fact that non-Muslims do not fast and they, like any other human beings or animals, have to eat and drink.
Forget the fact that there are Muslim kids who do not fast.
Anybody who just about mentions the word “food” would have been taken as insulting Islam.”
re: “Hence the closure of the school canteen during Ramadhan. This is prevailing in many national schools. Apparently, this is done to ‘respect’ the Muslim students who are fasting.”
I’ve been hearing the same. Seri Pristana is not an isolated case wrt closure of canteen. Therefore the issue can be considered already a trend.
Child psychology makes it a little hard for little ones to control their appetites especially when they see their good friends happily munching food. But isn’t it a training for the real world outside? Then those who are eating ought to be sensitized to the presence of other people around them who are fasting. At the end of the day it’s about training for understanding and self-control, even among adults isn’t it?
Thank you. Now let us see where would this end…
Whether we agree or not is not an issue, because the opinion of one individual cannot be taken into account. We have to address the issue more objectively, not because one or two fellows think that is is offensive to eat in front of fasting people.
The issue should be
1. Is it dangerous for the kid to eat next to a canteen under renovation?
2. What about eating outside under the tree in the hot sun and breeze of haze?
3. Is it really a toilet (confirm not)? So if not, is the changing room proper for dining?
p.s. When I was in primary school, my school had only one chinese boy and 3 indians. During ramadhan, the chinese would bring is food and hide behind the building to eat. He felt ashame to eat while all his friends were fasting.
Here are photos of the canteen under renovation:
First, they claim the canteen was closed at the start of the fasting month for renovation works…
From Mazidul’s blog:
“Kantin sekolah ditutup sejak hari pertama bulan Ramadan kerana kerja menggantikan pintu kayu dengan pintu kaca. Pihak pengurusan sekolah bimbang jika dalam proses pembinaan itu, mungkin pelajar menggunakan kantin akan tercedera,” jawabnya.
Installing a glass door should not take more than several days.
Now we are told the work was done and finished during the weekend.
Something is fishy about the frequent change in statements coming from the school authorities.
Well during this puasa month i bring my kid to eat at food court, restaurant whenever we went out. I slamba jer. I dont eat, but my 5 year old needs to eat. I will wait for him to finish his lunch. People do look but so wat.
At home when i “cuti” i can eat in front of my husband. Dia tak kesah pun. Even my dad tak kesah if i ter makan in front ofhim when its “the time of the month”.
Hope this answer ur question, helen.
Its not a big deal. Dont make an issue out of this.
Dekat Malaysia ni aku rasa tak kisah sangat, mungkin sebab orang Cina dan India pun hormat orang Muslim yang berpuasa. Kalau ada satu dua yang ‘tak tau Melayu’ tu kita pun buat tak tau jugak. Aku harap kita semua dapat terus hormat menghormati antara satu dengan lain. Anggaplah itu suatu keistimewaan yang boleh kita kongsi walaupun tak seagama.
Aku respect OKM yang berpuasa, dan aku respect perarakan kavadi dan juga sambutan chap-go-meh. Tapi apa yang dibuat oleh Alvavi dua ekor tu memang memang memang memang memang sial…
bukankah sudah dijelaskan bahawa tempat itu telah digunakan oleh semua murid (termasuk murid islam) sejak bulan mac. ianya bukan pasal bulan ramadan. kantin sedang diubah suai jadi murid yang makan terus menggunakan tempat sementara itu.
ini adalah provokasi keterlaluan.
re: “bukankah sudah dijelaskan bahawa tempat itu telah digunakan oleh semua murid (termasuk murid islam) sejak bulan mac.”
Itu cerita guru besar. Ada murid dan ibubapa yang berkata perkara ini hanya bermula selepas masuk bulan ramadan.
re: “kantin sedang diubah suai jadi murid yang makan terus menggunakan tempat sementara itu.”
Mengikut cerita, satu pintu sahaja diganti. Berapa lama masa yang diperlukan untuk mengganti sebuah pintu dan beberapa panel kaca? Lagipun kerusi meja yang disusun kemas tidak membayangkan kantin sedang diperbaiki. Sebaliknya ia membayangkan bahawa kantin tersebut sengaja ditutup.
Re: “Itu cerita guru besar. Ada murid dan ibubapa yang berkata perkara ini hanya bermula selepas masuk bulan ramadan”
Saya tidak rasa yang Guru Besar itu cuba berbohong pada bulan Ramadhan. Apa yang saya baca dari kenyataan beliau, ia digunakan sejak March dan disambung hingga sekarang.
Mak budak yang complain tu pun baru saja masuk ke sekolah itu 7 hari lalu. Mungkin dia tidak mengetahui keadaan itu.
Re: “Sebaliknya ia membayangkan bahawa kantin tersebut sengaja ditutup.”
Ini telah dibincangkan dalam entri dahulu atas dasar perniagaan/keutungan pada pengelola Kantin ianya sengaja ditutup. Bila pihak sekolah lihat tidak ada komplen dari pelajar-pelajar bukan Melayu (mungkin mereka takut nak komplen atau ok dengan keputusan itu) ianya diteruskan, hinggalah ibu pelajar baru tersebut post dalam FB beliau.
Persoalannya selarang bila dah jadi isu besar, menteri pun dah datang kenapa ibu pelajar tersebut tak datang?
Sekarang ini semua orang sibuk bercakap tapi apa yang mereka hendak sebenarnya?
re: “Saya tidak rasa yang Guru Besar itu cuba berbohong pada bulan Ramadhan. Apa yang saya baca dari kenyataan beliau, ia digunakan sejak March dan disambung hingga sekarang.”
Okay. Kalau betul dia telah berbohong, lagi besar dosa.
re: “Mak budak yang complain tu pun baru saja masuk ke sekolah itu 7 hari lalu. Mungkin dia tidak mengetahui keadaan itu.”
The Malay Mail aka The Christian Females paper hari ini mewawancara bapa kepada seorang lagi murid.
Re: “Ini telah dibincangkan dalam entri dahulu atas dasar perniagaan/keuntungan pada pengelola Kantin ianya sengaja ditutup.”
Tu pengomen kita Jamie yang kata. Mengikut cerita pengetua sekolah, ia kerana kerja-kerja pembaik-pulihan (yakni mengganti pintu) sedang dijalankan.
Jangan sekali-kali menganggap hanya kerana dia berpuasa dia tidak mungkin berbohong.
Sebenarnya gurubesar sek.keb Seri Pristina sepatutnya dari awal mengakui keselapannya tetapi apa yang berlaku ialah pembohongan demi pembohongan dan dolak-dalih yang tak masuk akal sehingga percubaan publisiti stunt buka puasa di bilik persalinan.
Mula kata, kantin sedang diubahsuai. Kemudian kata pintu kaca sedang dipasang. Agaknya berapa jam nak ambil untuk pintu kaca dipasang?
Kemudian kata kantin tak cukup muat semua pelajar waktu rehat tapi dalam kantin dibuat renovasi untuk kantin/bilik makan guru pulak. Apa guru tak boleh makan dibilik guru? Takkan tak ada tempat.
Kemudian kata semenjak Mac semua murid juga guna bilk persalianan untuk makan tapi ibu-bapa kata bilik persalinan diguna hanya bermula bulan ramadan.
Nak tanya kalau kantin dah siap dan dari gambar jelas kantin dah siap kenapa tidak buka untuk murid bukan Islam. Sebenarnya gurubesar tutup kantin sengaja tak biarkan pelajar bukan Islam guna kantin.
Lepas itu tunjuk gambar konon ada lelaki buka puasa dalam bilik persalinan pula. Kenapa tak buat majlis buka puasa dalam bilik gurubesar atau bilik guru ataupun di kantin yang sudah boleh digunakan. Ingat renovasi yang gurubesar berdolak-dalih ialah tukar pintu.
Pokoknya,jangan kita beranggapan orang pakai kopiah atau puasa tidak akan bercakap bohong.
Dah ramai saya nampak bila dituduh merogol anak siap datang mahkamah pakai kopiah atau baju Melayu dan dalam satu kes apabila tertuduh cuba menggunakan nama allah untuk mengatakan dia tidak melakukan kesalahan yang terkutuk hakim Melayu membidas mengatakan jangan guna nama tuhan kerana ada orang biar guna nama tuhan tetapi berbohong juga.
Dalam bahasa Inggeris boleh kata sebegini” the headmaster got caught with his pants down”.
Brader dia pakai sebab dia punya lawyer cakap kasi hakim kesian. Lawyer mahu cakap dia sudah insaf. Kasi kurang denda atau hukuman.
“Mula kata, kantin sedang diubahsuai. Kemudian kata pintu kaca sedang dipasang. Agaknya berapa jam nak ambil untuk pintu kaca dipasang?
Kemudian kata kantin tak cukup muat semua pelajar waktu rehat tapi dalam kantin dibuat renovasi untuk kantin/bilik makan guru pulak. Apa guru tak boleh makan dibilik guru? Takkan tak ada tempat.
Kemudian kata semenjak Mac semua murid juga guna bilk persalianan untuk makan tapi ibu-bapa kata bilik persalinan diguna hanya bermula bulan ramadan. ”
Ooi Jangan la pandai-pandai nak buat rumusan sendiri. Apa yang kau tulis tu semua diceduk dari pihak-pihak lain, bukan HM tu saja. Kalau dah memnang dasar DAPSTER, itu saja kerjanya suka spin cerita.
RED BEAN ARMY DAP MAIN KOTOR JIJIK ISU MAKAN DALAM TANDAS !
“Akaun-akuan palsu menggunakan nama masyarat India pula mula digunakan kemudiannya…berakhir dengan ia mula menjadi isu perkauman antara masyarakat Melayu dan India.”
Who is the biggest liar of them all?
Nak kena cakap jugak ka? Kita tau kut…
Kang dilabel Racist pulak kita ni…LOL
Dah mangli dah, saya tak kisah langsung. Lagi orang kata saya racist lagi saya buat2 racist. Sekarang mode saya macam ni. Dah tak dapat nak tolong. Dah lama dah…
Tidak usah ‘mengikut mengikut’ cerita Helen tapi siasat dulu. Mungkin benar kantin telah ditutup bermula sejak Mac 2013.
Sekarang saya bersikap rasis, adakah kerana yang bercakap itu guru besar Melayu, maka kata katanya diragukan?.
Dia sepanjang masa berada di sekolah tentu lebih tahu dari ibu bapa yang bercakap ( ibu bapa itu non Malay ke ? Itu sebab kata katanya lebih dipercayai !)
Satu pengajaran dari isu ini, toilet yang dikatakan tempat makan pelajar itu ternyata bilik persalinan! Sesuai tidak sesuai dijadikan kantin sementara itu lain hal.
So dari mula cerita ini memang kurang tepat! Jadi bila dengar cerita, siasat, siasat, siasat sebelum buka mulut!
Mcm mana pula u nak jelaskan gambar ada guru2 Melayu/Islam yang turut makan/berbuka puasa dan budak2 Melayu yang makan sebelum bulan puasa dalam bilik persalinan tersebut..
Jgn cepat melenting kerana hal2 yang belum pasti kebenarannya..
Non Malays always being really vocal bila kononnya ditindas…mcm mana pula you nak jelaskan pesakit Melayu yang di caci maki oleh doktor bukan Melayu di Pulau Pinang?? Sehingga ada yang digelarkan bodoh dan sebagainya.. Ada tak yang ambil peduli pasal pesakit tu?
Mana satu isu diskriminasi bangsa dan agama yang sebenarnya?? Klu isu membabitkan non Malays cepat jer bising2, klu kena pada Melayu diam seribu bahasa….
Isu non muslim makan depan muslim sedang berpuasa itu bukan halnya… you nak makan banyak mana pun depan muslim makan la…Bagi saya tidak ada masalah kerana Muslim berpuasa bukan setakat menahan lapar dan dahaga sahaja..
re: “ada guru2 Melayu/Islam yang turut makan/berbuka puasa” (Jgn cepat melenting kerana hal2 yang belum pasti kebenarannya.. )
Ada sesiapa tak yang boleh tolong beri sedikit pencerahan? Bila gambar itu dirakam — sebelum atau selepas ibubapa murid yang terbabit membuat aduan di Facebook?
re: “budak2 Melayu yang makan sebelum bulan puasa dalam bilik persalinan tersebut..”
Boleh tolong kongsi pautan url?
I hate to say this, but maybe, just maybe the picture was taken after the complaint has been made.
Click here http://www.bharian.com.my/bharian/articles/Siasatisumuridmakandekattandas/Article/.
The principle was wearing the same shirt as in this picture:
But then yesterday in Buletin Utama, TV3 did interview one of Malay student’s parent, and she said that her daughter has been eating in the changing room as well. No problem for her (that was what she said).
Quoting Berita Harian “Dalam pada itu, Pengarah Pelajaran Selangor, Mahmud Karim berkata, murid di sekolah berkenaan terpaksa makan dan minum di bilik persalinan sejak Mac lalu sebagai tambahan ruang kantin yang ketika ini gagal menampung murid yang ramai iaitu 1,375 orang.
Katanya, berikutan itu pihak sekolah menaik taraf kantin bermula 17 Julai lalu sehingga semalam. Dakwaan pihak tertentu kononnya tapak berkenaan tandas adalah tidak benar, sebaliknya ia bilik persalinan yang bersih serta sudah diubah suai menjadi tempat makan.”
The changing room has been used since March, and renovation for the canteen only started on 17th July. It should be reopened last Monday, but the HM was away and nobody has instructed the canteen to be opened. FYI, ini adalah kes biasa yang jelas menunjukkan sikap ambil mudah dan ketidakcekapan penjawat awam.
Orang Melayu tahap toleransi tinggi. Sikap tidak apa tebal. Tapi janganlah kalau kita rasa bersih dan ok makan kat, kita nak suruh lain bagi anak depa makan kat situ. Bertimbang rasa la sikit. Lain padang lain belalang!
Nampaknya kau pun dah jadi batu api, Helen….:)
Baik pihak berkuasa Kementerian Pendidikan buat siasatan rapi.
(1) Adakah bilik air itu sudah digunakan sejak bulan Mac atau ia hanya mulai digunakan sejak bulan Ramadan?
(2) Kenapa meja di kantin disusun begitu rapi seolah-olah ruang makan itu ditutup? Setakat manakah kerja pembaik-pulihan dijalankan dan untuk tempoh berapa lama kerja-kerja itu berlangsung?
(3) Kalau setakat ganti sebuah pintu, kenapa kantin terpaksa ditutup untuk sekian lama?
Antara factor saya amat meminati blog saudara kerana sikap adil dalam memberi pendapat walaupun perkara yang membabitkan kaum Cina.
Tapi dalam isu kantin SK Pristina ini anda mula berpihak. Perkara ini ok, kalau saudara telah sama sama pergi sendiri melihat keadaan di situ, bercakap dengan guru besar, ibu bapa yang terlibat atau tidak.
Tapi berdasarkan pemahaman saya, komen komen saudara lebih kepada apa yang dikemukakan oleh pihak pihak tertentu.
Amat menyedihkan “another heroine fall from her pedestal”
( maaf kalau perumpamaan itu silap atau ada kesalahan ejaan. Dah lama tidak baca Mills and Boons )
Seri Pristana mempunyai 1,376 murid. Mengikut laporan media, hanya seorang sahaja yang Cina.
Saudara menyalah tafsir komen saya di atas. Apa yang saya bangkitkan bukan isu Melayu, Cina atau India tapi sikap saudara yang selalunya rasional dalam apa apa isu yang berbangkit, jelas tidak kelihatan dalam isu ini!
Kebanyakan isu yang saudara tulis dalam blog ini, saudara sertakan dengan data data ilmiah untuk menyokongnya. Malah ada pengunjung blog Ini yang memberi pujian aspek ini.
Tapi dalam isu ini jelas saudara berpihak kepada ‘penentang’ Guru besar tersebut tanpa data data yang menyokongnya..
Contohnya hasil interview ( secara rawak) dengan guru, staf sokong, Pekerja Am, pelajar dan ibu bapa.
Atau paling mudah kunjungi sekolah tersebut, jalan jalan keliling kawasan tanya tanya sedikit. Pada saya hak saudara untuk membuat penilaian sendiri walaupun kalau ianya berpihak kepada ibu bapa tersebut.
Sebagai guru yang bersara, saya sudah mengalami pelbagai situasi masyarakat ‘menghentam’ pihak sekolah. Ada yang benar dan ada yang tidak. Sebagai guru rasa kekecewaan kalau ‘disalahertikan’ terhadap tugas yang dilakukan, amat amat mendalam. Malah timbul juga rasa putus asa.
Saya tidak menyebelahi pihak sekolah kerana saya tidak tahu apa sebenarnya yang berlaku. Berita yang diperolehi hanya diketahui melalui media dunia maya dan sedikit sedikit dari akhbar arus perdana .
Helen betul juga la Helen, mungkin kau emosi sangat kut nak pertahankan sekolah vernakular?
Then padan muka itu HM! He deserved it! By why is that nobody is saying anything about the so called mother bringing in ‘Malay’ and ‘Allah’ into the picture. Who is she trying to incite?
Ini hanya menunjukkan ketidakmatangan pihak pengurusan sekolah. Tak kira apa jua alasan, kita orang dewasa yang tahu berfikir tidak akan melayan kanak-kanak dengan menyuruh mereka makan di bilik persalinan. Tak kira sama ada murid-murid itu beragama Islam ataupun tidak.
Lagipun, bilik persalinan itu begitu kecil. Rujuk gambar-gambar yang luas tersebar. Sekolah itu ada lebih seribu orang murid. Adakah dengan menggunakan bilik persalinan yang kecil itu kaedah berkesan untuk mengurangkan kesesakan di kantin?
i dont get upset when seeing non-muslims eating/drinking in front of me during ramadhan…..but if they smoke i tend to get away …..tak tahan mak bau asap rokok…..hehe….
the real question to my muslim friends is…. kenapa nak upset sangat kalau orang tak puasa makan/minum depan awak? biaq pi la kat depa….. depa bukan orang Islam pon…..
ini semua poyo…..
This is wrong in malay context be it Malaysia or Indonesia…..
Might be true for the Arabs though….
Who said that muslim is “upset sangat” bila org kafir makan depan diorang??
i believe the kids had no trouble at all…
it is us, the adults who trying to make things worst…
KIDS, STOP GROWING! As you grow up, you lost some points off your intelligence and sanity.
“KIDS, STOP GROWING!”
Knock! Knock! anybody upstairs?
The truth is most never grow dear brain as they grow up as we can witness presently around us.
I don’t know how my kids will feel because they are still small.
However, I hope that the sight of people indulging in eating during Ramadhan will not bother them. They might be bothered at first, but I hope I can reason to them to endure for life will not always convenient.
This is exactly my point….life is indeed not always convenient….
Just because we are ok or we “endure” something does not in any way make it “convinience”.
What mdsabu said about the fasting situation in UAE was true fact. I was there circa 2009-11 and experienced many` thoughtful` mat salleh refrained themselves eating in public or faced punishments and even my own white co-executive too took pain to prevent me seeing him drinking or eating even in our own office. The Seri Pristina issue is a small matter make big by non Malay just to raise the issue to say that they too have big mouth just like the majority and not checking deep enough to see that even malay/muslim students and teachers too using the said room most of the time due to over capacity in the canteen.
This is sure good way to incite further hatred of the muslim towards non muslim here. Just like Razko said in his previous comments: ` Time will come when bumi muslim run amok` . Allah/God/Buddha/Jesus/ToPekong forgive us when the day come…. It is the day when you and me dread living here but unfortunately we all have no other places to go!
“How dare those kafir Indians question the headmaster’s decision to shut the canteen and make them use the changeroom?!”
Patut gurubesar oleh kerana kantin tak boleh muat semua, pindah bilik bilik gurubesar ke bilik persalinan. Baru kita respect. Ini temberang pulak.
Mat Sallehs are more understanding and tolerant compared to our nons. I live in the US and work as a Social Worker at a nursing home. There are 4 of us Social Workers sharing the same office room. We also eat our lunch in the office eventhough there is a lunch room provided for the workers. Now it is fasting month and knowing that I am fasting, my colleagues, out of respect for me, have their lunch in the lunch room instead.
One thing about Mat Sallehs here. They never feel and behave like a superior race unlike our cHINAkuis who think they are more superior than the other races. Our cHINAkuis like to quote that they are more superior because they have undergone 5,000 years of civilization. But according to my American husband who took Chinese History at Yale, only 1% of the Chinese population that really benefited from the so called 5000 years of civilization. They were the ruling elite and the rest lived in ignorant and abject poverty. We know very well that the cHINAkuis in Malaysia were descendants of coolies, gangsters and secret societies, they definitely not from the 1% elitists. So why should they feel superior? They are loud and like to complain a lot even on small matters. That is very true but superior? Definitely not! We still consider some of you as merely “Pendatangs”!
In your comment you name-called “Cina kui” and “pendatang”.
Maybe I have a soft spot for. I don’t think I dia to be honest. But I’m just a little bit malu for the anons and newbies with their blunt comments to say the least. What have become? Helen do you think these comments are genuine or another RBAs at work working their magic, taking potshot at you now that the time seems right? Something is fishy here…
This thread’s Anon(s), genuine.
Nizam ka-ching, ka-ching = imposter.
Also, this another “Sharifah Salmah” @ https://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/tsunami-cina-baling-batu-sorok-tangan/#comment-35130
methinks is RBA masquerading as Muslim.
Sigh … what kind of people are they? https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/wanita-cina-menyamar-sebagai-muslimah-dengan-niat-menipu/
DAP pollies wearing tudung and traipsing into the mosques. MAIS dan JAIS tak pantau ke?
Ini susah la nak cakap. Kalau enforce nons tuduh moral high ground la. Bullies nons la. Tak semangat 1Malaysia la. Sebenar Perlembagaan jelas tentang perkara ini seperti citing Quranic verses dan lain-lain perkataan yang dilarang, boleh tengok dekat laman web Jakim, kalau tak silap, tapi kalau tegakkan nanti macam-macam kena krtitik dan Menteri Melayu masuk campur suruh batal atau senyapkan.
Melayu/Muslim dah lama kena macam ni. Ada yang komplen dan ada yang buat bodo. Mungkin juga ada yang sudah tidak kisah sebab tahu tidak akan ada tindakan yang akan diambil.
Macam kes ratu cantik, Anna Lim tak tahu ke Muslims tak boleh masuk. Kan ada fatwa dulu. Kan dan jadi ikutan Muslims di Malaysia tak boleh masuk. Kenapa nak test the water?
Mungkin juga kadang-kadang itu kalau tidak keterlaluan, Muslim dan mungkin juga penguatkuasa (malas dan tidak apa mungkin juga) tak nak kecoh-kecoh dan gunakan konsep Rahmah dalam Islam.
Tapi Alvivi sememangnya tak bolehlah nak berRahman pada pandangan saya. Mereka ini dah kira kafir harbi!
Why are you blaming and cursing the Chinese when it was an Indian mother who blew the whistle on this?
Did you read the news about the issue? Or did you post to the wrong topic?
I do not think the Chinese are any more superior, but I know your hypocrisy is certainly much larger than your intellect.
Its good your white American colleagues are considerate of your religious practices although you are a minority. But you yourself are inconsiderate of the minority here who do not fast, and do not see a problem stopping them from using the normal canteen.
wow another bragger that thought yale = fact, no one teach all this snob in high school to always back up arguments with evidence ka? for example, the top 1% of american control 43% financial of the financial wealth is stating of fact, a stupid opinion 1% bla bla bla by a stupid american is not fact. and doesnt american know opinions are like xxxholes?
I disagree with msabu views that it would be an inconvenience to the Muslim students if they see their fellow non-Muslim students eat at the canteen.
It never bothers me since I start fasting at a young age when I see people eating/drinking in public places during Ramadan time. I teach the kids to tolerate these kinds of “challenges” that fasting Muslims face during Ramadan. Heck, I had to spend one whole particular Ramadan month supervising construction work at site and I preservered. Fasting is not a difficult task to do laa…
Just look at the buka puasa time at the hotels.. The muslims have to observe puasa and yet all this non-muslims couldn’t care less and just eat whatever they want in front of the muslims while the muslims will have to wait until buka puasa. .
Yea. But I don’t complaint since I know it is my personal ibadah, and not theirs. But most non-Muslims who had the berbuka with the Muslims kawan would wait and makan sama-sama. This I observed prevalent among other tables as well. Maybe different if they were on their own. To some 6.30pm is already makan time. We couldn’t/shouldn’t be asking them to do otherwise.
Non-Muslims in Malaysia are very insensitive. I remember years ago, after graduation I worked at a CPA firm as a company secretarial assistant. I was the only Malay in the Company Secretarial Department and the rest were all Chinese. During fasting months, they would eat in front of me but I didn’t really mind. One day one of them who sat in front of me, ate her char siew on my desk until our supervisor reprimanded her. So, the Alvivi case is not a surprise!
Personally, I do not bother if someone eat in front of me when I am fasting. BUt most non-muslims in my office would refrain from eating in front of other muslim friends. They dont even drink in front of us.
I have even told some of them that it is OK for me if they want to eat/drink in the office, but they said “NO-lah, it is not nice-lah. Not polite”.
You see, they refrain out of respect to someone’s religion.
On the same token, when I am out for lunch with my indian colegues at any warong or restaurants., I refrain from eating beef. Again, out of respect for them. It works both ways. You respect others and they respect you.
So in the case of SK Seri Pristina, I think, the HM is trying to instill, at a very young age for these students, to respect other people’s belief. Besides, young children who are just learning to fast, are so easily tempted to break their fast when they see others eating, They simply cannot tahan! My 10 year old son is no exempt.
I dont think the HM has any ill intention in doing what he did. In fact, I read that decision was endorsed by PIBG also and has been implemented since March.
Helen, not Indian collegues but Hindu. Not all Indians CANNOT eat beef. I am an Indian too but a Malayalee Christian. We have two great dishes beef stew and pork vindaloo. Sheer heaven!
Kat Malaysia ni meriah kan!
The non Muslims in my office eat melantak in front of us, I never complained or minded.
Helen – You should read syed’s take on this matter.
the guy (syedoutsidewhatever) have been trying to potray himself as intellect and progressive muslim…..to me i think he is a chameleon…
In many issues I do find his thinking as brilliant but when it comes to religious view….I strongly suggest you look for second opinion…
In many occasion I have tried to publish opposing comments in his blog that (i claim of course) as equally factual and logical….those comment never seen the light of the day….
It is quite frustrating though when you wrote sometimes at length and then never got published.
At least here in Helen blog…she still publish my comment eventhough it is starkly against her view in some topic especially this one….
For that I give her (Helen) a salute
‘but when it comes to religious view….I strongly suggest you look for second opinion…’
Setuju. Not everyone can understand this. If you read him to understand Islam, the advice is please don’t, no offence to the man. But if you understand Islam and would want to read his view on Islam and others, please do so, you may learn a thing or two, or more and get to laugh like most did.
‘At least here in Helen blog…she still publish my comment eventhough it is starkly against her view in some topic especially this one…’
Setuju. Although she had ‘muted’ me on numerous occasions, and at times I seriously felt the comment made was fair, I never forget that she is the tuan rumah. Same goes for Pak Syed.
re: “Although she had ‘muted’ me on numerous occasions”
Aiyah, the last one I muted you called Conrad a “pambu”.
For those of us not familiar with the term ‘pambu’, why is it offensive?
For the record, islam1st said “good snake”.
If the people who made the fuss of the matter had bothered to investigate the matter further it was not even an issue. But unfortunately some people always wants to create issues out of non-issues so that everything will be inter-racial and inter-religious issues and then they can blame the government for the ‘problem’.
Just what I put in Annie blog,: They don’t have an issue, so they spinning gasing lah. They take an info, churn it in blender and make a smoothy……….
And throw in Malay and Allah for kicks!
re : The truth is, it is inconvenience. If the non muslims pupils eat within that small section of open canteen…publicly showing them indulging..what do you think the muslim kids feel?…as I said it does cause inconvenience to the majority muslim.
I hear you. But the thing is why would the Malays even bother to go near the canteen during fasting month. During my school days, I remember we didn’t bother passing by the canteen unless it was necessary.
But then again, let’s call spade a spade.
1. This is a case of “misjudgement” of the school authority and I believe that they didn’t do it on purpose with malicious intend. The HM and school authority (I think) have apologized and admitted their oversight.
Note: This is apparently not good enough for the Dapsters, at least not until the HM is being transferred out of something. Even LGE has blamed BN on this issue.
2. To impose the non-Muslims students especially young children by segregating them into other section during recess is just plain stupid; although informing them about being mindful of etiquette with regards to Ramadhan is just necessary. anyway, I think most non-Malays kids are aware about that.
re : “Having said all the above, I personally couldnt care less whether you guys want to eat front, left, right or back of me.”
Very true. I feel the same too. Sometimes some of us even “Puasa Sunat” (optional fasting) during other month and we just do as well while most others are eating in front of us. The “Puasa” to us is not only just about refraining ourselves from eating and drinking from sunrise to sunset, but we also have to watch our words, thought and action.
Macam ni, memang la tak selesa. Sama la kes macam saya puasa ganti, suami makan ais krim Baskin robbin depan mata, mestilah saya terliur (wanita dibenarkan tinggal puasa disebabkan uzur (period), mengandung, dll, tapi kena ganti balik). Ataupun kes suami puasa di bulan Ramadhan, saya lunch di rumah dgn anak2.
Bagi saya, respect bukan boleh dipaksa. Mcm saudara Md Sabu cakap, ada sesetengah org yg tidak berpuasa volunteer secara suka rela untuk tidak makan di hadapan org yg berpuasa. Baguslah macam tu, tapi kita tak boleh paksa semua org mcm tu.
Dalam kes sekolah ni, saya percaya mesti ada juga pelajar melayu yg tidak berpuasa. Ni sekolah rendah, bukan sekolah menengah. Jadi tak ada masalah la setakat nak makan di kantin secara terbuka.
Macam saya kecil2 dulu berpuasa. Bila rasa tak tahan godaan makanan, tak payah lalu depan kantin. Bila masa rehat duduk bwh pokok tepi padang atau main2 di korridor.
Budak2 kena diajar tahan godaan dari kecil sbb kita tak boleh paksa semua ikut ‘convenience’ kita. Pendapat saya senang, kita kena respect hak masing2. Lainla kalau ada org yg paksa2 kita buka puasa dgn tonyoh2 ais krim / makanan dekat mulut.
At least someone here understood what I meant…
A lot of people seems to miss my point including you Helen…When I say it is inconvenience, all that I meant was that when you are hungry and someone is eating in front of you, you do feel discomfort because you really want to eat..and of course the IMAN refrain yourself from eating…
It does not meant that muslim get upset when the non eat in front of them or they should compliant and whinge about it.
The fact that you bring your kids while you are fasting and your kids eat in front of you and you dont feel a thing is an individual thing…My kids ate in front of me as well…so what? Do I feel upset? Sigh…
Why do you think that some non muslim e.g. see previous comment felt that it is cruel to eat in front of a fasting muslim and that my white friend refrain from doing so even without me asking? It is a simple common sense…Becoz it cause inconvenience to the fasting muslim…
Why do you think those UAE and Saudi have/enact those “draconian” Ramadhan law? Because they feel convenient watching your people ate while they fast?
deii, kenapa dulu2 perkara mcm ni tak jadi isu. aku bersekolah di SK tahun 80an, ramai student india dan cina. saling hormat menghormati. tahu batasan masing2. Mungkin alaf baru ni nak liberal sgt. Minoriti semakin mengada2..
Kalau Hindraf jadi Menteri ini lah jadinya!
Minoriti semakin mengada2?
Hmmm… Saja seronok2 nak tuntut hak kot? Sebelum ini ingatkan tak ada hak…
Kerana dulu, pelajar bukan Islam dibenarkan guna kantin sebagai ruang makan semasa bulan puasa.
Saya pernah belajar di sekolah kebangsaan rendah dan menengah. Kantin kami tidak pernah ditutup untuk kegunaan pelajar bukan Islam sepanjang bulan puasa.
msabu is a joke
the world doesnt revolve around us muslims. just because muslims form majority inhabitants of this country or the world muslim should feel superior bordering arrogant towards others?
your comment implies that muslims’ faiths is as thin as onion skin, weak and easily torn by the littlest seductions..
how do u like if the table is turned? i.e muslims living in non-muslim majority country.. fyi, our muslim uighur brothers are prohibited to observe fasting ritual and penalized by china authority if found doing so. this china authority and you have this same thinking- just because your kind form majority, so you think it’s okay to suppress others’ needs.
i dont think i am liberal. i think it is just what a muslim with common sense would think and do
You are either seriously deficient in English or deliberately exaggerating what I was implying…
Please tell me which sentence of mine imply that ” muslim faiths is as thin as onion skin, weak and easily torn by the littlest seductions”
the one where I said ” if the non indulge in public…how does that make muslim feel?”
Does this mean I said when non indulge in public, the muslim in small group or en masse will throw away their puasa and join the makan?
If there is a naked girl right in front of you…and if I say how would that make you feel? does that then I imply that you are will start to take off your pant and start XXXXXXXXXXXXXX??
Now if the “table turn” meaning that from letting the non indulge in a super clean changing/shower room to muslim uighur being prohibited from observing fast? or the buddhist whacking the rakhine muslim en masse?
Is this fair comparison??….this is down right a deliberate exaggeration….I wonder what sort of “table is this” ? must be the one with one side being heavier….
With this kind of response I should have just said bluntly that Malaysia should just force the nons to puasa as well so that I can fairly “turn the table” to Uighur muslim being prohibited to puasa….
It is just disapointing to have to response to this nonsense from an allegedly non liberal muslim like you….
Mdsabu stay cool I don’t think he is a syed to begin with. These people MO is one way. Take a statement spin it hard so that it would look ever more ridiculous. This is how they bully. cjb is one. These are parachuted commentators. Suddenly with post the comments increase few fold in matter of days. Perhaps Helen could clarify?
re: “Perhaps Helen could clarify?”
I noticed one particularly scummy Anon came in on the thread where I said that Annie’s blog is swamped by the DAP cybertroopers all commenting under Anon.
This week’s Anons I think could be non-regulars who visited via social media (100 references) as my Seri Pristana posting got facebooked 91 clicks and twitted 8.
How can you guys stay cool with all this spinning???
My ears are red and my brain is boiling…huh…
Anyway its a good debate exercise I guess…in the end everybody has their own opinion…
Cool down Bro,
I understood your statement quoted by Helen was about inconvenience to Muslim Kids. Am I right?
Somehow people take it as inconvenience to all Muslim in general.
off course it is more for the young kids, given the topic that we are discussing.
I have actually anticipated some of the response…The one that hurt the most is actually the one that come from our fellow muslim..
It is interesting to see their reaction…how (as anticipated) some of them, as if they couldn’t wait to jump to the defence of the “nons” at the very first opportunity if possible whacking my “inconvenience” statement so that to show how tolerate and accommodate and progressive they are as a muslim.
Somehow you can smell this in their writing…I know its magical..how can you smell anything from writing…somehow I did…
The word “inconvenience” has become like a taboo and a NO NO… :)
This is what I like about my fellow muslim. I hope my fellow nons would do the same….
madsabu, Helen may be mangli already, given the constant nasty words thrown at her; How many years already Helen?
Me on the other hand had different ways of looking at things here. I can really say. I can claim to be the most level headed among us here too. I’m sure some can agree.
I can’t really say. I can’t claim to be the most level headed among us here too.
To all Dapster maybe this can give you some idea to reflect your present hypocrisy:
The Toilet Bowl Concept Restaurant. There is one in Sungai Wang PLaza.
Looks like there is even a lot of muslim here that disagree with my view….Maybe I was wrong…but I am certainly true to my feeling…
Those that say that they dont know what their kids felt need only ask themselves…what they feel when they were kids as a muslim…
To put this inconvenient issue into perspective…here is an example:
my neighbour did a kenduri along our street and the khemah stretch even infront of our home…of course with my own permission… I had to park across padang because i cant even access my own driveway…Is this convenient? NO….but I am certainly ok with it…
Now coming back to this “toilet dinner hall” issue; the same storey as above except that this time actually there is a balai raya that you could do the kenduri right nearby and you still insist on doing it on the street causing traffic problem…..This is I think a fair comparison….
What codswallop, the articulation of Md Sabu. Going by the sensitivities, have you been sensitive enough to ensure no beef is served at functions when Hindus and Buddhist or Taoist attend. So, enough of talking about demanding respect for sensitivities when you do not recipocrate the same.
The truth of the matter was the canteen was closed from being used by non-muslims. The so called renovation was merely the replacement of a door. So what renovation went on.
If that is enough there is a publicity stunt of a buka puasa in the changing room. Now, pray tell me why would a buka puasa happen in an inconvenient place when school and particularly a Malay majority school is dismissed way ahead before the breaking of fast. Pelik bin Ganjil, that the prim and proper canteen was not opened for the buka puasa but a public relation stunt of having some questionable men breaking fast in a changing room.
Respect begets respect. If you cannot respect another then you do not deserve any respect. I think its time we put a stop to my god is better than your god bit.
By the way at the Johor Bar, all our lawyers functions do not serve pork and since a resolution by me some years ago, no beef is served. So Muslims and Christians, Hindus and Buddhist are all happy.
“By the way at the Johor Bar, all our lawyers functions do not serve pork and since a resolution by me some years ago, no beef is served. So Muslims and Christians, Hindus and Buddhist are all happy.”(Norman Fernandez).
Thanks for showing sensitivities to the christians, muslims, hindus and buddhists. It is more convenient that way isn’t it. Mdsabu should thank Norman for that magnanimous and considerate act…
Yeah… I will take that into consideration… in fact I will go more… I’ll cater for the vegeteraian as well… no meat or seafood whatsoever….
Yahoo… we are all happy people now…
I conveniently concur with you surmise. Convenience doesn’t seem like an alien concept to us all, does it Norman?
I guess i don’t have to invite my hindu friends to raya open hse at my place anymore since beef masak kicap and kurma will be served but heck they have been asking for the date.
Because we really up front and always inform them weather the rendang (these they request especially) was beef or not. Usually, we prepared for them an additional dish like rendang ayam so that everyone will also get to enjoyed themself. That what I do usually and every year my indian friends will asked my open house date to enjoy my rendang ayam and my chinese for my rendang daging. The kids usually asked for kuah kacang.
I had bought a separate knife to cuts some buah-buahan for my one and only vegetarian friend. I don’t think Norman can top that..hehe
Heheh… actually I also used seperate knife and landas for different work in the kicthen. I never mix up the knife or landas used for poultry, fish and vegitables. So you can imagine how my kicthen will look like and how much assoceries for cooking I have…
I use one sponge for washing cups and glasses, one for plates, one for Tupperware, one for pots and one scouring pad for frying pans.
Ada masa ke buat house chores… kat sini pun komen dah dekat tiga ratus… Alvivi dah keluar kandang, banyak benda nak kena tulis ni…
Are women or men better cooks?
Apparently someone as far as Johor knows better about the ‘Malay majority school’ makan di toilet incident.
As for the ‘Malay majority school’, I’m still waiting for people like you, the concern citizen do something about it to change the racial make up. Maybe NOT!
My God is certainly One True God. Just because you are less sure, does not mean that I have to be one too…but no worries.
I don’t even eat at the No Pork served restaurants. It is not Halal. Thanks for the effort Norman, but it does not mean anything to me. But I guess I’m not part of the Johor Bar, so what do I know, anyway. You surely knows a lot!
Just a side kick here;
What if the sexploit couple decided to do their “sex thingy” life in our public parks or packed commuters, just like the cats and the dogs? What if they are atheist or pegans ie no religion to forbid them from doing such act in the public.
Should we reserve them a corner to do their thingy? After all sex is part of nature and they have their rights to express themselves.
So why then all the ban on free sex and ponography?
I think the non muslims are free to eat anywhere they please as the Muslims are free to fast anywhere they like.
Non Muslims offending the muslims? Maybe if you have idiots who feel good teasing the Muslims by showing off their eating in front of the Muslims.
After all didn’t we have the idiots who make fun of the Muslims by the bak ku teh thing. And by jolly they are plenty behind them trying to justify the act by saying that A is not A. So they you go its not as straight forward as it should be with the dapsters in the fray.
Semua yang komen di sini semua old timers, jadi kalau orang bukan Islam makan dalam bulan puasa dihadapan mereka tentu tak masaalah. Tetapi yang menjadi isu ialah murid-murid Islam ini adalah di SK berumor bawah 12 tahun, sudah tentu mereka tak boleh puasa punya bila lihat murid bukan Islam makan di hadapan mereka. Tindakan guru besar waau pun tak sesuai tetapi tak harus dipersalahkannt..
Setuju. Yang tak sesuai adalah tempat yang dipilih.
Old timers dulu pun kanak-kanak jugak. Anak-anak dididik berpuasa sedikit demi sedikit. Dia akan tahu bahawa banyak cabaran yang akan dihadapi Puasa akan melatih kita dalam menahan nafsu dalam segala segi dan serentak dengan itu merasa bagaimana mereka yang tidak bernasib baik menghadapi hidup. Melihat orang lain makan ketika kita berpuasa hanyalah salah satu cabaran.
I have hinted this to Helen many times. I regard the HM action as unintentional because that what some Muslims think. Not just in Malaysia but elsewhere. Especially for children.
What ticked me is the Hindu mother who complained on her Facebook, relating this to Allah, Islam and Malay. And that the place was dirty. If you watch Buletin Utama and read Mazidul Akmal blog, the shower heads diterbalikkan ke atas and there are signs about basuh tangan and don’t use the place to kencing and berak.
I think can’t blame the hindus because they are really pissed off with Malays right now with issues like child conversion. But hey they also angry at Christians who actively convert Tamils and other Indians into Christianity.
re: “I regard the HM action as unintentional because that what some Muslims think.”
Unintentional, or then again maybe not.
Let us keep this question in mind. There will certainly be more revelations in the days to come.
After the earlier incidents with two other HMs Siti Inshah and Ungku Aznan Ungku Ismail, we non-Muslims are beginning to suspect that there are Malays in the bureaucracy who do this sort of things intentionally.
Not even you spared from the narratives, I guess. So we can all stop pretending that we are better than the very people we part critique on 24/7 don’t we?
re: “spared from the narratives”
It is not something we (‘nons’) plucked from thin air. The Education Ministry itself investigated Siti Inshah and Ungku Aznan.
In those two cases, countless police reports were made. So there would be the police files too.
re: “So we can all stop pretending that we are better than the very people we part critique on 24/7 don’t we?”
This is even sadder. At first I did give the benefit of the doubt to the principal but I’m beginning to change my mind.
So even a 10 percent Chinese BN voter like me smells something fishy in the Seri Pristina story.
If you keep up your present trajectory on this controversy, I shall think that you’re doing an Alvivi (those folks who menegakkan benang basah insisting that the bak kut teh is not pork).
For all those who have urged “siasat dulu”, itu saya sokong.
I shall help do my part. One of my contacts went to the school on Tuesday. I’ll see what else I can find out. I’ll also try to find out (from those who can read Tamil) what the Tamil press is reporting — which is a lot.
But let me say that the Malay press coverage has been scanty and biased.
But Helen haven’t I blamed the HM enough already? What more do I need to say?
You seems absolutely muted on the mother Malay and Allah remarks?!
What do you mean scanty and biased, read Harian Metro, there are pictures of the changing rooms with colours yesterday. And today one page is dedicated to the issue with a picture showing the kids now eating at one section of the canteen.
Utusan (Wed): Page 14, one article, length: 289 words, no picture
Utusan (Thurs): Page 14, one article (‘Kantin sementara dipersetujui PIBG’), picture of Deputy Education Minister (MIC) visiting the premises
Utusan (Fri): Page 15, column (‘Fitnah kantin dalam bilik air, isu CEC DAP’), no picture
Ok. I will wait for the revelation for days to come as you said. I have my sources too that told me they have used that place before since March.
Ok, it’s a deal.
Refer to this tweet https://twitter.com/ainaqey search for 23 July.. This is an ordinary Malay.. Her sister was eating there before.
Thanks Zack. Aina’s tweet is here, https://twitter.com/ainaqey/status/359566842878107648
a lesson i learned from this particular issue. if you want attention from the public, report an incident and blame it on the malay and/ or islam. you’ll certainy receive a lot of attention from the malay’s and/or islam’s hater….
The children in the photos look to be between 8 and 10-12.
Be fair. Unlike Hannah Yeoh and Ong Kian Ming (I couldn’t resist adding this bit, please indulge me — it’s my blog), the kids were not seeking publicity lah.
One of the parents complained that the changing room was stuffy. This is generally true of changing rooms – at least the ones I’ve been in in Malaysia.
What about the adult mother take on Malay and Allah? I’m sure you know too well what she had written accompanying the kids pics? What say you about her stunt?
re: “What say you about her stunt?”
Invocations like hers — she reportedly wrote in her facebook “Can ur Allah accept this?” annoy the hell out of me.
I find such posturing “Can ur Allah accept this?” as irritating as Hannah Yeoh donning tudung as a political ploy fashion accessory.
Okay thank you. Its unbecoming of you to stay muted on that.
re: “yes it is your blog and i’m just a humble visitor. i have no doubt whatsoever about my status here …”
You have misunderstood me. When I said “please indulge me — it’s my blog”, I was making an in-house joke about how I possess this remarkable ability to drag in Hannah Yeoh’s name into any of my various postings, and this time here by comparing her publicity craze with the affected kids who are not publicity seekers.
The regular readers do indeed indulge me by putting up with my predictability in dragging in Hannah Yeoh’s name even though I may start my posting on some other footing.
Re: “what would be the reaction of christian if i were to point out that Guneswari Kelly is a christian. would it augur well with them?”
Bingo! We’ve hit jackpot.
The head master reportedly received a death treat. What Malaysia has become?
That, I certainly do not approve.
So what do you do about that? Do you read how much hatred the comments on Malaysiakini, Freemalaysiatoday and else where about the issue? It is like what the headmaster has done is worse than murder.
this is quite interesting .. taken from dhanyaraam’s blog …
” My kids go to this school. n for those who are saying this is a big school should go and check it yourself b4 u start spreading more lies. i have personally been 2 the room, meetin up my kids. it is very clean. kids who stayback after koko, can have their shower, eat n rest in the room. So, tell me, how many schools are THAT considerate to the kids? they are given a special place to rest before they start their school. parents who put up the pictures in the first place are not actively involve with their kids’ activities in school. merely know how to criticize and spread lies. if parents deemed as it is inappropriate, believe me, it wont have survived from mac-july. so, please, enuf said about this issue. we are sick and tired of others who dont know and act as if you are above the others!! ” @ Mazilawati Maarof
Well ma’am, its OK coz you are Malay … If you are NOT then it will not be OK ….. sigh….! Welcome to the New Malaysia … cant wait for GE14 to see the consequences ….
re: “kids who stayback after koko, can have their shower, eat n rest in the room”
Another story version going around is that the “changing room” is clean b’cos it has never been used.
But here is a parent purportedly saying that her kids showered there after their co-curriculum activities. So which is it?
And then we have the Youth Minister’s staff saying, ““And it’s not just changing rooms. There were clearly shower stalls in there. And you know what happens in the showers.”
Does the Kementerian Belia dan Sukan know something that we don’t?
From what I gather the place has been used before to eat and read book.
The only way to ascertain is to ask the pupils there. The school also claimed the have a meeting before to discuss the matter. I am sure for any meeting there should be a minit mesyuarat as a proof.
The HM is reported going to sue people who slander him.
re: “The only way to ascertain is to ask the pupils there.”
re: “The school also claimed they have a meeting before to discuss the matter. I am sure for any meeting there should be a minit mesyuarat as a proof.”
Could very well be true. But there are only 28 non-Muslim pupils out of an enrolment of 1,300-plus. Doubt that the Indian & Chinese parents are represented in the PIBG.
You miss my point. The meeting did not say that Indian pupils to eat in changing room. Instead the meeting will decide that the changing room to be used as a temporary place to eat. So who is trying to turn this into a racial issue?
re: “Instead the meeting will decide that the changing room to be used as a temporary place to eat.”
I got you the first time, Zack.
Repeat: I think there could well have been agreement/approval from the PTA. After all, the members appeared in the widely circulated ‘buka puasa’ photo.
It is a racial issue in that only 6% of the student population in SKs is Indian, Chinese, dll. And in that there are Chinese schools and Tamil schools and after this incident, Chinese and Indian parents will be even more unwilling to enrol their kids in SKs.
I think that would be unfortunate. But either way, non-Malays are already shunning SK even when the SK has shown good results and performance.
A case in point is Sekolah Taman Tun Dr Ismail, where more than 90% of the students are Malays and the school constantly performs in public exams, yet the non-Malays refuse to send their children.
You can say TTDI is a rich neighborhood with liberal Malays so I guess this sort of insensitive thing will not happen. But it does not matter, the rich non-Malays prefer to send their children to international schools.
re: “non-Malays are already shunning SK even when the SK has shown good results and performance”
The Firsters like to recycle a favourite argument that if English schools were brought back, then the Chinese parents would return to the national stream b’cos they place high standards and quality of education above all else.
In other words, the Bangsar Malaysians clamouring for a return to the glory days of mission schools are saying that the first consideration for Chinese parents is the best standard of teaching and that is why there was a time during when English stream was offered, the Chinese schools had less take-up.
However going by what you say – and I agree that the premier SK students are showing excellent academic results – even this carrot no longer holds any allure for the Chinese parent.
English medium is a facade only. Sorry for saying this.
The real issue is Chinese are themselves want to separate from other Malaysians(mainly malays). They do not show effort to “know” Malays but insist Malays to appreciate that white angpow is an insult. to them, No need to understand Malays. But malays must always understand the chinese sentiments
And the talk on Chinese culture is mere rubbish. Singapore does not have vernacular schools. But these people never fail to say why cant we be like Singapore.
No need (if possible) to learn Malay Language. But they create a scene by insisting to use “Allah” as if they will die if “Jesus: instead “Allah” is used.
But their political icons wear tudung and berpuasa, wor.
I know you support vernacular schools Helen, but Yap is an idiot and DJZ is not championing an integrative multilingual education system.
Anyone who can read will realize that the UNESCO endorses mother tongue education in early/primary education, national language in primary/secondary education, and acquisition of another international language at secondary/tertiary levels.
Click to access 129728e.pdf
UNESCO supports bilingual and/or multilingual education at all levels of education as a means of promoting both social and gender equality and as a key element of linguistically diverse societies.
(I) ‘Communication, expression and the capacity to listen and dialogue [should be encouraged], first of all in the mother tongue, then, [if the mother tongue is different from the official or national language,] in the official [or national] language in the country, as well as in one or more foreign languages’ through:
_‘the early acquisition… of a second language in addition to the mothe tongue’;
_the introduction of ‘the second language… as a subject of instruction’ the amount of which ‘should be increased gradually’ and which should not become the medium of instruction ‘until the pupils are sufficiently familiar with it’.
_‘further education in this second language at primary-school level based on its use as a medium of instruction, thus using two languages for the acquisition of knowledge throughout the school course up to university level;
_intensive and trans-disciplinary learning of at least a third… language in secondary school, so that when pupils leave school they have a working knowledge of three languages – which should represent the normal range of practical linguistic skills in the twenty-first century’
Chinese Malaysians must realize that vernacular PRIMARY schools are meant for the minorities to JOIN the national secondary schools and NOT as an alternative to the Malay-language medium.
Bahasa melambangkan bangsa. Bangsa Malaysia menggunakan Bahasa Malaysia.
re: “Bangsa Malaysia menggunakan Bahasa Malaysia.”
Such a crisp argument. Yet how come BN losing the perception war to the Firsters?
“And in that there are Chinese schools and Tamil schools and after this incident, Chinese and Indian parents will be even more unwilling to enrol their kids in SKs.”
No issue about the Chinese since they have the option of SJKC and big network with the Chinese Business Community to absorb the students after school plus Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But what about the Indian? SJKT does not have that kind of network and dynamic, thus leaving the Indian community more separated from the rest.
It is not a racial issue. It becomes a racial issue when someone purposely saying that non Muslim students forced to eat in toilet.
In the first place, the ruling involves all students, not limited to non Muslim student only
Second, it is not toilet . rather more like a changing room with shower facility.
So, what is the big deal. It is not an issue in the first place. But for some, the head master must be crucified to make Malay/Islam or even UMNO looks bad.
re: “In the first place, the ruling involves all students, not limited to non Muslim student only”
True if the ‘changing room-canteen’ had been in use since March.
Not true if the ‘changing room-canteen’ was being used only since the start of Ramadan.
That is why it is of paramount importance not to lose focus on the real issue. So many things said until the real issue was forgotten.
The ruling involves all students. Whatever criticism on the head master, let us not forget that he has a good reason to use the changing room.
Unfortunately some politicians (example Guan eng) feel it is OK to crucify the head master just to whack Malay/islam/UMNO.
Remember the case of Guan Eng lying about a petty issue: a chair for him on one official function. Guan Eng lied by saying a chair was not prepared for him(capacity as head of goverment). He lied.
And remember how he manipulated Muhyiddin’s statement on alleged allegation against Guan Eng’s son.
And i believe we have a case against a parent (in the canteen Sri pristana) who purposely painted a racial issue when there is none.
re: “painted a racial issue when there is none”
Let’s see over the next few days if there will be any revelations.
Whatever the truth will be, both opposing sides have already made up their mind.
1. The pro-establishment think it is a none issue based on the explanation given by the School, HM, papers and portal;
2. The opposition will not stop until their version of the verdict is accepted by all;
I didn’t hear any of my nephews, nieces and friends who went to SJK complained before about the canteen, although they know that the canteen is selling non-halal food. To be fair they are full paying students as well at the school and they never ask for a special treatment of any kind.
re: “The opposition will not stop until their version of the verdict is accepted by all”
Yup. You have described the oppo to a ‘T’.
Parallel example: All them election petitions that Pakatan filed. They will not be satisfied until their candidates are declared the ‘real’ winner in all those seats where they claim they lost due to electoral fraud, Bangladeshis, blackouts, not indelible ink and Opah’s black cat crossing their path.
It seems like a lot of people here think that I imply that muslim is upset when the nons eat in front of them?….
And it seems like a lot of people here think that I imply that the muslim should force the nons to observe puasa since they are fasting?
the fact is none of the above are true….
And those story about the UAE and Saudi is for everybody to ponder how lucky we are living in Malaysia…not to say that we should be turning into another arabic countries!
And I find it really funny/amazing that some of us here keep on pounding on the changing/shower room issue….truth be told that here in Australia (due to limited amount of surau, now talking of giving hoot to the minority eh) I often went to the parent room (which consist of toilets with mangkuk tandas ok/ and cleanliness about the same as those that is now becoming issue) to SOLAT/Pray…yes…I solat there…
to muslim this is far more important than makan…yet…I did it there…anybody here me complaining/whining about it?
the winner are RBA
as an adult the fact that having other people eating in front of me while i’m fasting does not shake my fasting spirit a bit. however it does make me sad to know that most of the non muslims who are malaysians did not even have the courtesy and respect to those that fast.
as for the school..there’s nothing wrong if they want to provide a place for the non muslims to eat away from those who fast. It would be more torture for the muslim students who just start to learn how to fast to be challenge this way and they maybe tempted to break their fast as their will is still not strong enuf.
for certain places like dubai to impose on strict rules against eating in public during fasting month…i do actually applaude them…as they are actually helping to prevent muslims from temptation of breaking fast and i notice the non muslims actually do respect these rules and respect those who fast more this way.
re: “as for the school..there’s nothing wrong if they want to provide a place for the non muslims to eat away from those who fast.”
The canteen IS the place provided for every pupil to eat in school.
The non-Muslims kiddies eat. Let them eat in the canteen in the space provided for the purpose of eating.
The Muslim kiddies are fasting. What in the world are they doing in the canteen which is the usual place where people eat?
Let the fasting kids stay in the library / the text book room, or use the resource centre / the music room …
FYI, you do not need to be at the canteen to see the canteen…
Back in my school days, our canteen was beside the playground….so as kid, every recess you go to the playground to play regardless of the puasa…
It seems that you are more rile with the notion of “hiding” the nons when eating in Ramadhan than the fact that they are eating in the “toilet”?? am I correct?
If that is the case, then the only mistake on the part of the HM is that when renovating the “toilet” into dining room he should have also changed the wall and the door into glazing…you know the transparent type…so that you people can display the pleasure of indulging your food…
And I say it again…not that we (muslim) mind.
So mdsabu, perhaps you should not leave your house in the daytime to go to work, or travel for business reasons. God knows, you might pass by an open restaurant, hawker centre, KFC, McDonalds with patrons inside and see them eating, right?
ac dc…better still…maybe i should force the kfc, mcdonalds etc to close down their shop so that I could pass them without accidentally seing you eating inside eh?
‘And I say it again…not that we (muslim) mind.’
Do you even read properly?
True… a canteen is the place to eat. but as what the head mentioned the canteen was undergoing constructions. thus the reason why the changing room was turned into their temperory place for them to eat.
Khairy Jamaluddin’s press secretary Regina Lee (tweet below) appears to find it hard to believe that the canteen has been under renovation since March.
Itulah sebab Melayu lari dari UMNO. Orang Cina jadi pembantu Menteri UMNO kutuk Guru Besar Melayu tanpa siasat dan dengan buruk sangka.
Khairy perlu di lepaskan dari Ketua Pemudanya. Guru-guru melayu mesti tunjukan kuasa mereka dalam pemilihan UMNO.
Kurang ajar Cina pembantu Khairy mesti dibalas.
Enrolmen 1300 budak kecil bukan satu hal mudah. Pening kepala guru-guru Melayu tapi di hina oleh Khairy Jamaluddin yang kononnya mewakili orang Melayu.
Ambil tindakan sekarang kerana nampak dah berlarutan dalam UMNO.
Majlis Tindakan Melayu
Melayu dalam UMNO sanggup ka? Ni memang sesuatu aku nak tengok. Ahli UMNO ni selalu pemaaf dan cepat lupa?!
Marah pun sat saja tu yang cepat lupa tu!
Betul tu. Pentadbiran Najib ambil sikap “ambil mudah’ dengan orang Melayu. Tetapi menatang orang cina seperti menatang minyak yang penuh.
Awal awal lagi Najib mansuhkan Kementerian Pembangunan usahawan. Dan Najib ada sikap terhegeh hegeh. Itu yang buat orang Melayu menyampah.
Buat apa le lantik budak hantar pasport sebagai Menteri. Tak mahu bertanya apa perlu seorang Ketua Pemuda pergi hantar pasport Anwar Ibrahim. Ada apa apa ke?
Tak pasal pasal Najib mansuhkan ISA. Dan dia buat semua orang terperanjat mahu letak SPR dibawah Parlimen. Apa salah SPR dibawah Majlis Raja Raja. Meletakkan SPR dibawah Parlimen akan buatkan segala fasik, Kafir Harbi berpeluang kuasai SPR.
Dina, it goes the other way as well, that there are many Malaysian Muslims who do not have the courtesy, respect, and understanding that non Muslims do not fast.
The proper place for the non muslim students is the canteen. With a majority of students fasting, the canteen should be empty and the non Muslims be allowed to eat inside. Not a changeroom, which should never have been made into a canteen in the first place.
So you applaud the UAE and Saudi Arabia restricting public eating in Ramadhan. How do you feel about European nations banning the tudung?
again i have to explain the context of my writing is based on the head saying that the canteen is undergoing constructions. u want the kids to eat at dusty and messy place with all the noise and dusts??? why dont u try and eat there during all that renovations?
why do non muslims have to get mad of the non eating in public places policy? are u banned from eating at all ? they dont allow u to eat at all is it???? FYI in dubai restaurants in hotels are allowed to open. So respect lah sikit org yg betul2 puasa…sorok sikit lah kalau nak makan pun…we all tak marah…sbb we all dah di ajar utk puasa n sabar sejak kecik.
Muslims always get attack. This is too much.. tak payah emo sgt lah Helen. U go straight to the students tanya if it bothered them or not. The school board comprises the kids parents pun give their blessings to the school admnistration… org luar pulak nak sebok buat bising.
re: “U go straight to the students tanya if it bothered them or not.”
If it had not bothered them, they would not have complained to their parents, and their parents would not have complained in Facebook.
re: “The school board comprises the kids parents pun give their blessings”
The school enrolment of 1,376 pupils comprises only 28 non-Malays. This ratio of be reflected in the PTA.
As for the ratio goes which I’m sure will be reflected in the PIBG, no onw can blame the HM nor the school could they? It is what it is. I’m not suggesting non Malay parents to start sending their kids there anymore, cause they sure now will used this as one of their refusals. Opportunity lost again. What a shame.
reno since march …so why brought this issue now? because its the fasting month and only the non muslims are eating thats why this issue is blown out of proportion for the purpose of whacking muslims and malays in this country…. fikir guna otak lah sikit. muslims have very high tolerance. but to have us be provoked over and over again …melampau lah…ur blog shd be banned now for inciting religious n race issues such as this.
re: “reno since march …so why brought this issue now?”
Renovation since March, reno April, reno Mei, reno Jun sampai pertengahan bulan Julai?
Apa benda yang dibuat reno ni?
Senang saja. Minta kontraktor tunjuk invoice penaiktarafan yang selesai dijalankan.
re: “Renovation since March, reno April, reno Mei, reno Jun sampai pertengahan bulan Julai?”
Come on Helen, you pun tau yang start March tu bukan reno tapi buka changing room tu sebagai extension untuk kantin. Dalam kes sekolah Melayu yang bermasalah ni banyak pulak soalan2 yang you bangkaitkan masa nak balas komen walhal dah obvious dan tau jawapannya. Terasa macam RBA pulak yang tanya. Kalau nak cari the truth, contact saja kawan you si Dhanyaraam tu, mintak dia jawab atau dapatkan jawapan.
Ada dua tiga komen yang menegur dan aku taknak komen seperti “Nampaknya kau pun dah jadi batu api, Helen….:)” ( -komen 64) diulang lagi,
I do believe him to be a credible witness when he said that he immediately went to the school to check on the status.
Dhanyaraam is Putera MIC lah and got his tugas pegawai — the issue had become a hot potato for Kamalanathan.
Kalau GB dah diarahkan cuti seminggu, Kamalanathan pun patut kena tindakan yang sama.
Even Muhyiddin pun kena jaga sikit mulutnya sebab awal2 lagi dah arahkan tindakan tegas akan diambil ‘jika ada asas’. Sekarang ni semua tindakan tegas secara otomatik terarah ke sebelah kerajaan/BN/UMNO/Melayu/Islam.
Mungkin PRU14 nanti elok diserahkan tampuk pemerintahan Malaysia ni kepada pembangkang pulak, biar dema pulak rasa. Aku pun teringin jugak nak rasa air free, anak cucu aku tak payah bayar balik loan PTPTN, nak beli kereta murah dll. Dan mana tau aku boleh dapat lot rumah free macam PAS beri (60,000 lot?) masa memerintah Trengganu dulu…
ye betul …helen dah jadi batu api sangat…padahal org lain dah ok terima penjelasan HM ..guru2 dan ibu bapa kanak2 di situ…..yg indian lady who brought up the issue pun dah senyap takde apa tindakan pun….si helen pulak lebih2. why dont u brought up the issue regarding the chinese doctors yg refuse to treat the malay patients in Penang??? u have finally shown ur true colours lah Helen….. a chinese backstabber. u think renovation buat skjap jer ke within one day?… my chinese neighbour already renovate his house for more than 5 years tak siap2 lagi ok.
re: “.yg indian lady who brought up the issue pun dah senyap takde apa tindakan pun….si helen pulak lebih2.”
Bukan si Helen yang melebih-lebih. Sudah 18 laporan polis dibuat.
Indian lady who brought up the issue pun dah senyap sebab dia menerima ugutan bunuh serta ugutan untuk menculik anaknya.
Lihat sahaja pada tajuk berita hari Sabtu.
‘When truth is spoken, life is threatened’
‘Facebook page set up to back Seri Pristana HM’
‘Mum who exposed ‘shower canteen’ gets kidnap threats’
‘Teachers unprofessional if pupil bullying claim is true’
‘Acting police chief claims ‘seditious’ photo misquote’
‘DAP: Act against Utusan for lying about Selangor CPO’
Yang senarai di atas itu Malaysiakini sahaja dan belum lagi termasuk The J-Star, The Malay Mail (aka The Christian Females paper), The Sun dan The Malaysian Insider.
Dina, if you have been reading the news, the “renovations” were to install a glass door, a process taking no longer than a couple of days. No demolition, roofing, tiling, plumbing, electrical or cementing work in progress. Here is a photograph:
And the students were allowed to use the canteen as a solution.
Yes, I agree that respect should be given to people who are fasting. But respect does not mean blocking off the empty canteen since the start of Ramadan two weeks ago, and making them use the changing room to eat. Need to understand there are people of other religions and they do not fast.
so tak kisah lah tukar glass door or watever reno they wanna do.. what is so bad for the kids to clean at a clean room the school provide? just because u see a shower room there so? its not even use pun…
funny how some people kecoh pasal this issue but cina makan babi which is the dirtiest animal ever can be tolerated.. such hypocrites. as for the 18 lapuran polis… biasa lah ibarat orang menangguk air yg keroh… what happen to the other parents of the 28 who did not make police reports?
They probably understand the school’s situation… as usual org luar mcm helen ni lah yg sebok…. bet she still hasnt gone to the school yet but she can bitch about it in her blog…. typical.
re: “what happen to the other parents of the 28 who did not make police reports?”
You contradict yourself within one paragraph. First you kutuk those who made the police reports as “ibarat orang menangguk air yg keroh” but at the same time you also kecam the parents who didn’t make the police reports as if by not lodging complaints with the police it can be taken that they’re not unhappy with the situation.
Not everybody likes to present themselves at the police station, you know. But if the reluctant parents are assisted to make the reports, then people like you will say that they’re only being used by the Indian NGOs and political parties who facilitated them.
re: “as usual org luar mcm helen ni lah yg sebok”
Seri Pristina is only one of many schools that closed their canteens during fasting month. Therefore it is representative of a trend and a larger issue.
Since it is a larger issue, from the MCA for example, the Wanita MCA president Yu Chok Tow, MCA Youth Education Bureau chairman Chong Sin Woon, MCA Youth National Chairman Wee Ka Siong (former Deputy Education Minister) as well as the MCA Young Professionals Bureau chairman Chua Tee Yong have made statements on the Seri Pristana controversy.
It is a hot issue, so why shouldn’t my blog comment on it? If the issue doesn’t interest you or if you think that it’s inconsequential, then there is no need for you to come and and read my “bitching”.
tau pun marah…so how come dont want to comment about makan babi kotor and all but make noise when issue about a clean eating place provided by the school is raised?
and since when is mca even relevant?
‘not everybody likes to present themselves at police station..’…realllllyyyyyyyy???
Before we get too emotional about this issue, I’m sure Helen only wants to get to the truth. Women are more emotional when children are involved. It’s a natural protective instinct. :)
Anyway, I’m pretty sure the HM did not do this as an insult because great care has been taken to make the place comfortable and clean.
Bad judgement as to the location? yes.
Keeping non-fasting students out of view? maybe.
HM caught lying? maybe.
Trying to cover up? I think there is a high possibility. Out of panic perhaps coz it has become national news.
To me, the intention is more important. Did the HM intentionally do that to punish or insult the students of other races? This has to be established.
If it was truly done with malice, action must be taken on all the people involved.
If it was unintentional, I don’t see anything wrong in forgiveness… After all, I believe everyone deserves a chance… must we always be baying for blood? It’s Ramadhan after all :)
We are only human. The HM & PTA, I presume consisting of mainly Muslims, might have been too focused on the needs of the Muslim students. This happens. I’m sure all of us have found ourselves in similar situations, where we sometimes “forget”.
What I do not agree with, is the way this issue was raised. I’m not sure if the parents involved have raised their concerns with the HM before going public with it. If they had, and were ignored, well… what can I say.
I suppose now the students, parents, and teachers in that school would find themselves in an awkward situation.
It will be difficult for the affected students to continue their schooling there. Well, seems everyone has forgotten about the kids.
The mom for one sure wasn’t thinking about her kids, when she brought in Malay and Allah into that mess! I don’t feel she cares enough not too.
Ty Helan ,
Malaysia Oh Malaysia. Dasar apartheid Melayu Islam yang apparent. Puasa nak tujuk tujuk, nak respect, tak nak orang lain berjamu makan depan awak. Komang.
Aku dah puasa 30 puluh tahun jauh dari kamu nobody knows i fast. In fact they only knows when I asked for 2 days holiday on Hari Raya.
Is it already known that among the ibadah only Puasa is for Allah s.w.t., only he knows you fasting?
You tungang tongek sembayang people see, you go to haji people see, you deposit wealth for zakt fitrah, people see. Only puasa Allah knows.
Why do you have to segregate? Let people eat normally, and you fast normally.
Building a better Muslim for Muslim.
Jangan mempertikai amal ibadah orang lain. Keikhlasan seseorang itu hanya Allah SWT saja yang tahu. The fact that you are bragging in here about your ibadah is already considered as “RIAK”.
RIYA’ (riyak) iaitu perkataan Arab yang terbit dari kata kerja ra’a, yura’i, yang turut dituturkan dalam masyarakat Melayu, merujuk kepada suatu perlakuan, sifat dan sikap yang buruk.
Ia boleh diertikan sebagai memperlihatkan, menunjuk-nunjuk, menonjolkan atau mempamerkan amalan dilakukan kepada yang lain dengan tujuan mendapat tempat di hati mereka.
Berdasarkan al-Quran dan hadis, ulama sepakat riya’ hukumnya haram termasuk dalam kesalahan dosa besar yang merosakkan nilai ibadat.
Antaranya, nas yang bermaksud: “Sesiapa yang menghendaki kehidupan dunia (semata-mata) dan perhiasannya, Kami (Allah) tunaikan kepada mereka (balasan) amal-amal mereka di dunia (ini sahaja) dan mereka tidak dirugikan.
“Itulah orang yang tidak memperoleh di akhirat kecuali neraka dan lenyaplah di akhirat itu apa yang telah mereka usahakan (di dunia) dan sia-sialah apa yang telah mereka kerjakan.” (Al-Quran, Hud:15)
Beberapa perkara penting dijelaskan dalam ayat terbabit, antaranya perbuatan syirik dan tujuan keduniaan, malah perhiasannya yang merosakkan nilai amalan soleh dan ibadat.
Nabi s.a.w melalui hadisnya ada memberikan penjelasan susulan, seperti hadis dari Abu Hurairah r.a, maksudnya: “Aku (Allah) adalah Yang Terkaya (secara mutlak) dari disekutui (dikongsi). Maka sesiapa yang beramal dengan suatu amalan yang disekutukan bersama-Ku dalam amalan terbabit dengan yang selain dari-Ku, Aku tinggalkan bersama sekutunya.”
Memang Allah Terkaya, manakala yang lain adalah fakir serta bersifat serba kekurangan dan lemah, sentiasa memerlukan kepada-Nya.
Dengan sifat yang melebihi segalanya pada Allah, tidaklah layak sama sekali untuk-Nya menerima suatu amalan yang disekutukan dengan selain-Nya.
Justeru, kesempurnaan dan kekayaan-Nya yang mutlak itu memastikan segala amalan dihadapkan niat dan tujuan kepada-Nya sahaja.
Menurut ulama, setiap amalan yang dilakukan dengan tujuan riya’ adalah rosak dan terhapus nilai pahalanya, bahkan boleh menyebabkan dosa.
Tetapi nilai dosa dari perbuatan riya’ berbeza mengikut perbezaan peringkat ibadat yang menjadi bahan dalam riya’ dan berbeza mengikut kelainan tujuan perbuatan terbabit.
Ulama memperincikan riya’ kepada beberapa peringkat:
1. Riya’ yang jelas iaitu yang menjadi pendorong kuat kepada amalan dan ibadat seseorang. Jika tidak kerana adanya riya’, seseorang itu tentu tidak melakukan amal ibadat terbabit.
2. Riya’ yang tidak jelas dan tersembunyi. Jika kerana riya’ saja dia tidak melakukan ibadat, misalnya seorang yang biasa bersolat tahajud, kadangkala diselubungi kemalasan, tetapi apabila ada teman atau tamu bangun beribadat malam dia menjadi rajin pula.
Ibadatnya itu didorong sedikit oleh riya’ yang tidak jelas dari dalam dirinya. Riya’ yang tidak jelas ini menurut ulama, tidak membatalkan pahala asal, tetapi menjejaskan nilai pahalanya mengikut kadar riya’ terbabit.
3. Riya’ yang lebih tersembunyi dan terlalu samar. Riya’ ini bukan yang mendorong amal ibadat atau berasa ringan untuk beribadat, namun sifat itu terpendam di dalam diri.
Jenis ini hanya boleh diketahui dan dikenali melalui tandanya seperti berasa bangga dengan pujian.
Misalnya, seseorang itu melakukan ibadat secara ikhlas, tanpa ada dorongan riya’, malah benci kepada sifat terbabit, tetapi apabila amalannya itu diketahui orang, dia berasa gembira.
Jika gembiranya semata-mata sebagai tabiat fitrah manusiawi dan tidak mengharapkan amalannya itu diketahui orang, riya’ seperti ini tidaklah merosakkan pahala amalan terbabit.
Ada yang lebih tersembunyi dari itu, hanya dapat disedari mereka yang mempunyai hati bersih lagi halus sebagaimana diterangkan Rasulullah s.a.w bahawa riya’ lebih tersembunyi daripada rayapan kaki semut hitam di waktu malam.
Semua ini untuk menjelaskan betapa perlunya kita sentiasa berwaspada daripada terperangkap dengan riya’.
Jika mengatasi riya’ yang jelas, belum tentu terselamat dari riya’ yang kurang jelas, malah jika di peringkat terbabit janganlah pula berasa diri terselamat dari segala bentuk riya’.
banyakkan berdoa mintak di jauhkan perassaan riak tu…
tu semua tipu daya syaitan untuk menghalang kite dari buat kebaikkan…
Allah tahu ape niat kite….
re: “Ia boleh diertikan sebagai memperlihatkan, menunjuk-nunjuk, menonjolkan atau mempamerkan amalan dilakukan kepada yang lain dengan tujuan mendapat tempat di hati mereka.”
Macam DOKTOR (PhD) Ong Kian Ming menunjuk-nunjuk dia berpuasa, bersahur and iftar?
Mamat kat atas tu bukan Meor. Dan bukan juga dah berpuasa 30 tahun. Penipu kacang merah tu. Lenggok bahasa pun fail. Berterabur. Bagus juga depa ni hanya mampu toilet bowl BM!
Meor ke tu? Nampak macam Michael Chan or Michael Lim je…
Aku rasa dia jealous tu… 30 thn duduk US puasa kat sana tak balik Malaysia… memang lah tak happening…. tak ada langsung suasana puasa dan raya.
Kat sini pun sama….Alhamdulillah tahun ni aku balik Malaysia Raya….
Orang beribadah secara Ikhlas akan seboleh-boleh menutup ibadah yang dilakukan dari pengetahuan orang lain. Contoh lain, seperti besedekah atau menderma, orang yang ikhlas biasanya akan guna “anonymous” atau lazim bagi orang Islam sebagai “hamba Allah”. Tapi kalau menderma dan bersedekah supaya satu dunia tahu…APAKAH MAKNANYA ITU?
This episode is another symptom of how ill Malaysia as a country has become. We all become extremely touchy and ultra sensitive. We all have a very strong distrust of each other.
It does not help that the the Political Leaders are always seen as too quick to ‘melatah’ and the opposition leaning newspapers always eager to fan racial/religion sentiments.
Am waiting for a strong sensible Statesman to call the newspaper owners, political leaders and religous heads together to knock them on their responsibilities of healing this nation. I guess that is not going to be our ever nice YAB PM….. sigh!
I think this is a very interesting thread. While I may not agree with mdsabu, good for you, mdsabu for making an argument and articulating your points and kudos Helen for choosing this topic as a launch pad to discuss ideas.
To be clear and not conflate issues, as for the topic of fasting and sensitivity, I am in agreement with the points raised by anak jamil, AC-DC, Norman Fenandez, Helen, et all.
I do find it interesting though that those Malays who are taking the “moderate” stance when it comes to sensitivities on fasting are making compelling arguments based on spiritual/religious rationales, while those taking a more “hard line” stance are resorting to majoritarian/democratic principles citing precedent from Muslim majoritarian countries etc.
As to the Pristana fiasco itself, I think the question of race will always be present whenever issues like these crop up. The level of distrust of the Non Malays when it comes to public institutions will always be high simply because of experience and the fact that certain right wing Malay quarters champion these institutions as “Malay” institutions.
On the flip side, Malays would view with suspicion any dissatisfaction coming from Non Malay voices as an attempt to racialize the issue because of the rhetoric coming out from certain quarters on the incompetency of a System based on the desire to protect Malay hegemony.
Making the situation worse are politicians, a partisan press and a lack of transparency. What we can say for sure, is that the Establishment is doing a horrendous job of reassuring its citizens that there is nothing to hide.
The recent facile warning from the Selangor police that spreading pictures of the kids having meals in the shower rooms could be investigated under the Sedition Act.
Not only does this give the impression that there is something to hide, it furthers the narrative that the Establishment (UMNO) has something to do with an incident which could very well turn out to be the incompetence of a single individual.
Apparently the Selangor police denying making such statement and claim Utusan has misquoted them. Apparently the link to the statement on Utusan Online has been replaced.
Actually, some parent just voiced her grouses in facebook.
Then the facebook posting was reposted in some pro opposition blog. Her attempt to appeal to muslim emotions had the opposite effect.
What IMO happened next:
1. The school didn’t think the children’s situation is that bad, for their own reasons. or excuses. They had a buka puasa to show that there’s no problem eating there. Wow, like this won’t back fire.
2. Lots of angry people with angry opinions from all sides.
3. The school getting confused and scared because besides angry parents, we also have one angry deputy minister. If you were to believe their explanation that students have been eating in that place approved by PTA meeting since months ago, then this whole mess would be confusing, if you ask me.
4. Obviously the first parent, like most people posting statuses on facebook, probably would have no idea this would escalate into a matter of national interest. Fight or flight response. If zack is correct, then she chose trying to escape. Wouldn’t blame her.
Ah, facebook. Truly a wonder web site.
Expose bad management from the school authorities, and you will be called a ‘keling estet’, pariah’, ‘snake’, accused of being on the payroll of a mythical Mexican Jumping Bean Army, told to go back to India, and as icing on the top, some people will ask for a Hindu Holocaust.
Jesus faced a mob that was eager to execute a woman caught in adultery. He put a stop to it with a simple challenge: anyone who has no sin in their life should step forward and throw the first stone.
AC-DC, silakan cast the first stone…
Maybe I should have put something about opportunists, agitators and provokers on the number 2.
On the other hand, people have no problem getting mad on their own. It’s just tinder getting added to an already kindling fire.
i like your phrase “Not only does this give the impression that there is something to hide, it furthers the narrative that the Establishment (UMNO) has something to do with an incident which could very well turn out to be the incompetence of a single individual”
Somehow the phrase “there is UMNO to be blame for everything” rings loud in my ears.
How does Selangor police remark “that spreading pictures of the kids having meals in the shower rooms could be investigated under the Sedition Act.” connected with UMNO? This is way beyond my comprehension….
One word: Utusan
Wait it is beyond your comprehension that the state security apparatus has a habit of acting on behalf of UMNO ?
Maybe you missed the internal memo where the PDRM stated that an IMPC would hurt UMNO and the PDRM or the fact that a retired air force officer said that the armed forces should be grateful for all UMNO has done for them or the fact that an UMNO mouthpiece (Utusan) made the (probably false) claim.
As far as the HM is concerned he does represent the Government hence UMNO (well it used to be BN). Are you trying seriously making the argument that the political party and the government should be distinct ?
Because, you know that this is counter to what UMNO has been saying, since…..forever.
I am actually amazed that you asked me “are you trying seriously making the argument that the political party and the government should be distinct ?”
Are you serious????
The truth is I dont even have to be serious to try to make argument to show to you that political party and government should be distinct.
My Dad was a K.P. the highest position you could attain (without being in politic) in one of the civil servant…he is not even UMNO member…Some decision he made is actually slanted towards Oppo…I myself used to support Oppo until 2008 though…
It is common to see/heard; UMNO being slammed by the Oppo.. for claiming that UMNO bagi itu …UMNO bagi ini..UMNO buat pembangunan bla bla…whereas the money is actually government money a.k.a duit rakyat…It is not UMNO money…All that they do is manage the money…
I am perplexed by your ease of equating government with Political Party…
And you said “Wait it is beyond your comprehension that the state security apparatus has a habit of acting on behalf of UMNO”
Are we going to argue on hearsay now or what??? Maybe you should substantiate your word…
Those might be the habit of the state security, whereas for you and your kind is the habit to shift all the blame to UMNO…
Seriously…dude…that is not healthy!
Since we are relying on personal anecdote.
My father was a high ranking member in the security apparatus (and was extremely angry when Ibrahim Ali claimed that if there a military base in his constituency he would surely win) and served faithfully for decades. My mum was a member of the civil service at the tail end of Operation Isi Penuh and other such initiatives. I have been involved in the educational system both in the private sector and the civil service,
If all they do is manage our money then why is it initiatives such as BRIM and other such endeavours are used for UMNO and component parties ? Why is it Dr.Jeyakumar has to go to court (and lose) to get funds which were mandated for his constituency ? These are but just but two examples.
If you are perplexed with my ease at relating government with a political party have you not seen any of the rhetoric, never mind the deeds of UMNO which demonstrate this. Do you want examples of government policy being decided in UMNO supreme councils meetings, which there are many ?
Like I said, there is nothing hearsay about this. There are far too many examples which are in the public domain. Your “shift the blame to UMNO” merely means “UMNO is completely blameless”, that’s not a healthy attitude and I will not even bother referring to it as a belief held by “your kind” but rather symptom of the disingenuous nature of partisan politics.
Edit to add: (Apologies I accidently edited this out of my response)
Re: “My Dad was a K.P. the highest position you could attain (without being in politic) in one of the civil servant…he is not even UMNO member…Some decision he made is actually slanted towards Oppo…”
Right, by your own words here, do you see the contradictory nature of your post, which supports my point or do I have to go into detail ?
UMNO is a large institution. By laying blame on UMNO, you are effectively putting the responsibility of all the bad on every member of UMNO, which should not be the case.
Even after WW2, not all Nazi party members were blamed for the holocaust. Many escaped prosecution because they were not directly involved, though they had knowledge of the atrocities that occurred.
What you should be doing, Conrad, is to identify the bad actors and expose their criminality based on facts and evidence, not rumours or blog posts.
Re: “What you should be doing, Conrad, is to identify the bad actors and expose their criminality based on facts and evidence, not rumours or blog posts.”
This has been the theme of most of my post here, if you bothered reading anything I have posted, you would notice that I have always, always base my arguments on fact and evidence, esp the post you were responding to.
If they had knowledge of the Holocaust….oh, never mind. If you have any specific problems with my post kindly point them out but as for your rejoinder, it would have across as sincere if you directed it at some of the more vocal and provocative posters around here.
Am new here, so I had to throw in the Nazi reference for good effect.
Welcome and Nazi are always a good effect.
Yup some were made Pope and worship by UMNO bashers!
Perhaps, one was made Pope!
Hey it was UMNO who invited the Vatican in.
And if you think Nazis are bad, let me tell you of those extremist who do very well in Islam.
Hey don’t shoot the messengers. I know for a fact that your people are good at inquisitions. Having any lately?
Either there is something wrong with your English or there is something wrong with my English!
It seems like the confusion is whether the government is distinct from the party or the government should be distinct from the party?
Can you see the difference? The two statements imply different thing…
In case you have a short span of memory…Here is your own statement: “Are you trying seriously making the argument that the political party and the government should be distinct ? ”
Had the answer to “should the government be distinct from the political party” be NO….as you implied…then UMNO has every right that all the government expenditure is UMNO expenditure…Nobody has the right to cry foul that it is not UMNO money but the tax payer money….
Had it been that UMNO = government then all the BRIM and other endeavour would have gone to just UMNO member…
And you said: “Your “shift the blame to UMNO” merely means “UMNO is completely blameless”, that’s not a healthy attitude”
Seriously…do you realize what you have just wrote there? How can me saying “shift the blame to UMNO” meaning “UMNO is blameless”….Any neutral headed person would not have made those connection…
Jerusubang Dapster headed might have made those connection though…
I think you people are just being intelectual lazy….you know…taking the easy way out…
next time when your car broke down…aiya this is UMNO fault!..
When you get traffic fine…aiya its UMNO fault!
when your kids had to eat in the makeshift toilet dining hall also….UMNO fault!
Roket tak boleh naik pun, salah UMNO jugak!
Oh I get the distinction but the question is, do you ?
See, all this started because you got all squirrely because I said that the PDRM’s statement on disseminating pictures reflected badly on UMNO. This is where you claimed I was “shifting the blame to UMNO”. I guess your spidey sense was tingling or something.
When I pointed out the numerous instances where the security apparatus of this country by their own words were in collusion with UMNO and other examples where UMNO used the Federal/State coffers as their own private piggy bank, you suddenly raised the argument about separation of the State and political party.
Hence my incredulous question in the form of the text you quoted. I didn’t imply anything but disbelief that someone who always jumps to the defence of UMNO would be advocating a basic democratic concept such as that, a concept I might add that some in UMNO have disavowed.
After all it was former PM Mahathir that prattled on about “guided democracy” (sic) which merely meant that there is no separation from Government and political party.
Honestly I am a bit confused on your rather confusing dissecting of my question. To put it simply, whenever UMNO partisans like yourself claim that anyone is “shifting the blame to UMNO” it merely means “UMNO is always blameless”.
How do I come to this conclusion ? Well, your last example of the car breaking down is indicative of the kind of thought process that goes in in discussions like these.
If there is any intellectual laziness in this discussion, I assure you it is not from my end.
Boy you’re good. Was is it that you do again?
And you’re not no matter what you do.
I concur with a lot of your views.
I see many of the hardline comments here show they do not see any problem with pushing minority children to a corner (by blocking the canteen space and making them use the changeroom cum canteen), and expecting them to submit and obey. When somebody objects, they get angry and all sorts of racial expletives come out.
The same people here accusing Ms. Guneswari of maligning their religion have uttered far more vile and insulting comments toward other religions. Just look up the comments section in this blog’s religion-related articles, for instance.
A Muslim friend once told me that during Ramadhan, “the devil is locked in hell for a month”.
He also added “..but sadly many Muslims come out to temporarily take his job with acts of faked-piety, arrogance, hypocrisy, greed, and holier-than-thee behaviour”.
re: “The same people here accusing Ms. Guneswari of maligning their religion have uttered far more vile and insulting comments toward other religions. Just look up the comments section in this blog’s religion-related articles, for instance.”
Please show us which comments in this blog’s religion-related articles, for instance, that you mean. Much appreciated.
re: “A Muslim friend once told me that during Ramadhan, “the devil is locked in hell for a month. He also added “..but sadly many Muslims come out to temporarily take his job with acts of faked-piety, arrogance, hypocrisy, greed, and holier-than-thee behaviour”.
“many Muslims come out to temporarily take his job” — and a few faux Muslims (evangelistas who war tudung) too.
“with acts of faked-piety, arrogance, hypocrisy, greed, and holier-than-thee behaviour”
You mean like the fake puasa and holier-than-thou show of bersahur by Ong Kian Ming?
You might be reasnobly thinking of Doctor OKM. He surely pointing his fingers on Doctor OKM enemies.
Not to forget shaving head at the Temple while one is not even Buddhist.
Mrs Iguana Eng.
Brother (I’m assuming “brother” is appropriate) AC-DC,
Needless to say I think we are on the same page.
I heard on the news (radio) that the PTA of the school in question said that it was within their ambit to make decisions like these without informing the parents. They concede that the parents were not informed.
I find this troubling. If the PTA (if I’m not mistaken) really did make such a claim, it would mean that some parents were aware of this and that they really didn’t think it was important enough to inform all the parents in the form of an official statement before embarking on this course of action.
If this is really the case it offers a small scale view of how people are expected to fall in line with whatever those by virtue of rank or positions of influence say.
Because of the nature of how the System is set up, Malaysian generally reach down and pull out their race and religion cards whenever issues such as these crop up.
On partisan blogs the invectives come fast and furious and any form of reasoned debate is loss in the vitriol. Part of this I suppose is venting.
As far as religious slurs on this blog, one example that comes to mind is the poster Warrior(number) who went off on a rant against Christianity in one of the older threads. I may be mistaken because I generally quick read older posts when I have the time, to get a feel of the way how the discourse is handled on this blog.
I think what is far more common, is the demonizing of the Non Malays communities esp. the Chinese community. However since Pakatan partisans have their own axes to grind and have their own “acceptable” Malay dogma, I engage when necessary and overlook the ranting unless it becomes obvious that a response is warranted esp because in partisan blogs (and this one happens to be Pro Establishment) silence means consent, so to speak.
Re: “…….“..but sadly many Muslims come out to temporarily take his job with acts of faked-piety, arrogance, hypocrisy, greed, and holier-than-thee behaviour”.
To be honest when it comes to Religion, I think the devil was fired a long time ago and humanity has taken over his job full time.
Sarte would surely be proud of you!
What do you think of his work ?
Certainly managed to fool some fools!
Kwang! Kwang! Kwang!
So does Religion and it has a longer tradition.
I’m sad for you. Really. And I don’t even like you. Funny eh?
Of course you like me or at least you like attempting to troll me. That’s why you stalk me on every thread. It’s ok, I have had many admirers before and you at least reference Mos Def.
I don’t normally explain myself. Not to people like you at least. But stalking you on every thread is not my bread and butter.
Just because you make this blog your daily routine now, me reading the articles with commentaries thread by thread (I don’t like to jump thread mind you), does not mean that I limits my thinking process to your dua sen only, ok? So lets be clear on that.
The rest of your opinion on me, is for you to keep. I’m not planning to make a friend out of you just yet. So I don’t care.
Be jumpy if you must!
“If this is really the case it offers a small scale view of how people are expected to fall in line with whatever those by virtue of rank or positions of influence say.”
Unfortunately, top-down decision making without considering stakeholders involved (or even their views) is too common in our country. I once read in a business journal that we have a very high power distance index. Leaders expect acceptance from those below the hierarchy, and differing opinions are not easily tolerated.
“Because of the nature of how the System is set up, Malaysian generally reach down and pull out their race and religion cards whenever issues such as these crop up.”
True. The mother/whistle blower has been accused as part of an elaborate plot to “defame Malay leadership” because she disagreed with the decision to shut the canteen and use the changing room. I will not touch on the anti-Indian epithets they used, it is enough to explain their mind set.
She could have been more tactful in her expose (in similar level and vein with statements such as “…..is this how you Christians follow the teachings of your Lord?!” or “…..this is how Hindus behave??!”). But as I mentioned, some readers of this blog have made far more offensive comments towards other religions. Such as that ‘warrior’ person you mentioned.
“To be honest when it comes to Religion, I think the devil was fired a long time ago and humanity has taken over his job full time.”
God creates, Man complicates.
re: “But as I mentioned, some readers of this blog have made far more offensive comments towards other religions. Such as that ‘warrior’ person you mentioned.”
That ‘warrior’ person has been banned from commenting.
Now you claim that “readers of this blog have made far more offensive comments towards other religions”.
I’ve asked you to pinpoint those offensive comments towards other religions that you allege. You made a accusation. Now back it up.
Something sneaky is working here…trying to implicate your blog kut Helen…mmm
be wary Helen, ini baling batu sembunyi tangan of the highest order
You should leave off the YDP too lest there are more grounds to implicate my blog.
Are you talking about the Hindraf commentaries? It was in context of our discussion la Helen. How can we not, when we are discussing about that group?!
“You made a accusation. Now back it up.”
Yes, he was banned, but he commented. I was not attacking you so do not get to jumpy.
Besides warrior’s postings, something I Googled up.
“Awas donngeng eropah menjalar | Oktober 21, 2012 at 12:49 am
It is frightening (menakutkan) ketaksuban orang ulu dan native borneo percaya bulat2 ajaran dongeng eropah.”
Why are you so averse to Jaclyn Victor’s song, by the way?
re: “percaya bulat2 ajaran dongeng eropah”
Is this the best that you can come up with about my blog commenters insulting other religions?
‘A Muslim friend once told me that during Ramadhan, “the devil is locked in hell for a month”.
He also added “..but sadly many Muslims come out to temporarily take his job with acts of faked-piety, arrogance, hypocrisy, greed, and holier-than-thee behaviour”.’
Ahh. Third party story, how convenience. Are you in sales or something?! Surely you are no angels. And it seems bird of a feather flock together too.
Not just third party…the third party also happen to be a “muslim” so as to make a lesser impact (in terms of him or his race being labelled racist as such)
you know…instead of saying that it is actually his own opinion and true feeling…. :)
C’mon there are many who have used personal anecdotes in their responses. The two of you certainly have. Let’s not go down this road simply because you don’t like the ideas that some Muslims may have.
My group of Muslims friends are divided into the hard core progressives and the hard core regressives. The latter forming the ideological foot soldiers of PAS and various sects.
Edit to add.
What I find amusing is that these same Islamic demagogues are now holding hands with the Christian evangelists , each hoping the other would repent and see the light.
Failing which divide Malaysia along religious lines where each would have control over their religiously enthralled supporters.
I’d add your comment to my next rojak posting coming up shortly.
‘My group of Muslims friends are divided into the hard core progressives and the hard core regressives.’
I’m equally surprised that they had not torn you to pieces. You know the extremist kind whom you detest and always had your suspicions on.
Why would they tear me to pieces. They are hard line not homicidal. Well not yet anyway. You have no idea what I detest only what you detest and project on to others.
Enjoying your piece of Sarte lately?
Why you think you may have something to contribute, after all you brought him up?
You have no clue do you? Pity indeed.
sebahagian pembaca di sini mungkin dah terbiasa dengan pendirian Helen yang dalam kebanyakan masa sealiran dengan mereka. Sebab tu kot sampai timbul tuduhan “Helen now shows her true color”. Jujurnya saya sendiri tak sering sependapat dengan Helen, dan isu ini saya ikuti dengan hati gundah. Bukan apa, asalnya ia adalah isu pengurusan tetapi sekarang meleret jadi isu perkauman dan keagamaan pula.
Pada pendapat saya, pengadu (ibu murid) sepatutnya berjumpa dengan pihak pengurusan sekolah terlebih dahulu untuk mendapat keterangan dan penjelasan. Kalau perbincangan tak berhasil boleh dipanjangkan aduan ke PPD dan seterusnya hingga ke pihak atasan. Salah faham, kekeliruan dan ketidakpuasan hati antara 4, 6, 8 mata lebih mudah nak diuruskan berbanding meluahkan di Facebook yang dibaca beribu malah berjuta mata.
Kita sibuk bertikam lidah tentang, patut atau tak patutnya non-muslim makan depan orang yang berpuasa di bulan Ramadan, adakah extended canteen tersebut tandas, bilik persalinan, digunakan lagi atau tidak? etc.. Sampaikan ada yang bersuara, kalau muslim berpuasa, yang non muslim pun tak boleh makan?
Kalau nak melentur buluh, biarlah dari rebung. Kalau dari kecil anak-anak bukan islam diajar untuk hormat rakan islam yang berpuasa dengan mengelakkan makan dan minum depan mereka, saya percaya ia akan jadi tabiat hingga mereka dewasa. Perkara ini (adab di hadapan orang berpuasa) sudah tentu tak diterapkan di rumah oleh ibu bapa mereka, jadi mereka belajar benda baru. Tak jadi masalah untuk makan depan orang berpuasa, tapi lebih manis kalau di belakang mereka. Dan bagi anak-anak islam, adab bila berhadapan dengan orang berpuasa memang diajar, kalaupun tak dipraktikkan oleh semua. Saya sendiri walaupun bercuti puasa, tak pernah tunjukkan pada anak-anak dan keluarga yang saya sedang bercuti! Saya bersahur dan berbuka sama seperti hari lainnya. Tapi itu semua bergantung kepada individu, ada yang kisah, ada yang tak kisah pun dengan adab ni.
Patutkah bilik persalinan jadi bilik makan sementara? Saya percaya kebanyakan kita tinggal di rumah, di mana kedudukan tandas bukan terletak 100m di belakang? Ruang makan dan dapur yang mempunyai akses ke tandas bukan sesuatu yang pelik pun. Akan jatuhkah ‘martabat’ ruang makan rumah saya di mana tandas terletak antara ruang makan dan dapur? Yang penting pintu tandas sentiasa bersih dan bertutup, apa aktiviti di belakang tandas, itu belakang cerita. Kalau dilihat dalam gambar, bilik tersebut dihias cantik, meja beralas. Secara lahiriahnya menepati fungsinya sebagai kantin tambahan sementara.
Dan kita juga lupa untuk melihat hikmah disebalik kejadian, yang mana kemudahan sekolah sebenarnya masih kurang. Dalam hal ini, sekolah seharusnya perlu dilengkapi dengan kemudahan kantin yang lebih besar untuk menampung keperluan pelajarnya. Itu yang seharusnya diberi perhatian lebih. Dan Helen, tak ada orang islam yang marah @ akan marah pun kalau bukan islam makan di depan mereka. Dah berapa lama masyarakat cina, india dan melayu islam tinggal bersama di Malaysia? Pernah kita dengar orang bukan islam kena tumbuk sebab makan di depan orang islam? Pernah mereka ditangkap kerana makan di tempat awam ketika Ramadan?
Anak orang Islam juga perlu diajar untuk menghormati orang Hindu agar jangan makan daging lembu depan orang Hindu.
Salah seorang ahli PIBG, Mejar Hardeep Singh. Siapa kata bukan Islam tidak diwakili?
Kantin sudah dibuka semula
Kuala Lumpur: Kantin Sekolah Kebangsaan Seri Pristana sudah dibuka semula mulai semalam bagi digunakan murid bukan Islam untuk makan ketika waktu rehat persekolahan.
Tinjauan Harian Metro mendapati pihak sekolah menyediakan beberapa meja untuk kegunaan murid bukan Islam makan di kantin itu selepas insiden kononnya murid dipaksa makan dalam bilik persalinan sehingga mencetuskan rasa tidak senang orang ramai.
Bagaimanapun, buat sementara waktu ini tiada perniagaan dijalankan di kantin itu sebaliknya murid perlu membawa bekal makanan sendiri dan dibenarkan makan di meja disediakan.
Ahli Persatuan Ibu Bapa dan Guru (PIBG) sekolah berkenaan, Mejar Hardeep Singh berkata, kantin dibuka semula mulai hari ini (semalam) dan murid bukan Islam diarahkan makan di tempat disediakan itu.
Menurutnya, hanya sebahagian ruang meja dan kerusi disediakan untuk kegunaan murid terbabit.
“Kami menganggap kekecohan berlaku beberapa hari lalu itu disebabkan salah faham dan kini sudah selesai,” katanya ketika ditemui.
Murid sekolah berkenaan, Kashvita Suresh, 12, berkata, dia memang sedia maklum mengenai bilik persalinan sekolah berkenaan dijadikan tempat untuk murid makan ketika waktu rehat.
I hope they (parent who complaint and School management) settle their differences.
Buang yang keruh ambil yang jernih.
She deleted her Facebook and did not meet the Ministry and school administrator on the day they visited the school.
masalahnya..dah tak ada yang jernih dah untuk mereka mereka ni…yang ada keruh je…especially for the one that start instigating this by posting it in facebook with the extra vile…Allah/Islam remark…
she (the complainer) deleted her facebook and did not meet with the minister?
I guess that just show you the true intention behind her posting…to incite more racial/religious division among us…
This is unfortunate and sad.
Looks like yang “menang” jadi arang yang kalah jadi “abu”….
Sorry to say, it serves her right.
Meantime, please read here:
i was about to say thank you for the balas you gave for my comments ,lol.
Now I have to retract.Did you cut and paste those aspiring accounts about “riak”.?
You balas Helan posting with”Sorry to say, it serves her right.”
What happen to you.?
The lady can used whatever means to expose inhumane acts, any means.
Yes I cut and paste, plus I remember those from one of the Kuliah Maghrib as well. I put a link below that for you to read further as well.
Re. You balas Helan posting with”Sorry to say, it serves her right.”
I am a Malay Racist after PRU13. So my view is totally bias towards Islam and Malay. Helen is aware of that.
FYI, I wasn’t referring to Helen.
you should still be thankful to him for “cutting and paste” the articel about “riak” for you to find and read.
From reading your absurd rant above, out of your 30 yrs of puasa experience.. it seems like you havent found and read those articel.
So have fun reading and thanks to lol…
i fast quietly, i ask you and your kids to do the same. not so loud pls. welcome to the rest of mankind.
We are all still learning and will to continue to do so until the last breath; in particular about Islam as Muslim. I am not trying to show off but rather share what I have learned.
Me no “saint” here fyi. For instance, I would like to thank Helen for deleting part of my post in response to “Janji Bantai”. Dunno what moi was thinking when writing it last nite.
The headmaster had to make police reports.
So Helen, what is your point?
re: “So Helen, what is your point?”
Not very observant, are you?
I put the link in reply to mdsabu’s contention that the (Indian woman) parent’s Facebook had been taken offline.
Guneswari said she had received death threats over her Facebook. That would be a good reason to shut down her Facebook, would it not?
Well, you could have added that in your post. No need to claim that I am not observant. I wasn’t involved in the entire thread.
My post was clearly a ‘Reply’ post to the post that comes just before it.
The indented comment box indicates ‘Balas’ (since my blog is formatted in WordPress Malay language).
Minta maaf. Saya tak pandai bahasa malaysia.
Obviously MI chose to black out the Malay School and Allah remarks for which she posted.
‘”How else am I supposed to express my concerns? Can’t they understand this?” questioned Guneswari in response to her tormentors.’
Err, leaves Malay and Allah out of it. For one its not even Malay school that you sent your daughter too. Malay Schools had been abolished to make way for Sekolah Kebangsaan which were shunned by these kakis, btw. Perhaps we should resuscitate Malay School. At least kena fitnah pun tak lah sakit hati sangat!
‘Guneswari insisted her posting had never been about race and the issue has always been about the students’ welfare.’
This is funny, considering the seditious remarks posted.
‘”This is emotionally stressful and it is all very upsetting. How is this fair?”‘
Serves you right.
I hope the police investigate the content of her very own posting. Grill her about the racial and religious remarks. And charge her if its need be. She definitely knows how to.
As a non-muslim, I know Ramahdan is a time for muslims to incalcate lofty values in life, among them are strong will power, patience and tolerance. If he says that seeing non-muslims eating in Ramahdan will cause incovenience to muslims, then he has lost sight of the teachings of Islam.
He is not referring to Muslim too generally. As far as I can understand, he is referring to Muslim kids.
It is even more important for parents to help kids to cultivate good attitudes in life, instead of misleading them at young age,
He also did not say about misleading them at young, he stressed about kids being kids.
Washine, you obviously know nothing about Islam. This religion is rather intolerant of many things, depending on the interpretation.
I suggest you comment on what you know (pigs and beer and what not), and let the muslims comment on their own religion.
What/Who gives you the authority to speak about Islam again?
Can you please share more on this very religion being intolerant on many things and how is that your concern, in the first place?
Jampi doesnt need authorization…He has his “jampi bowl”…he can see and understand everything….Just jampi in the bowl.
What are you taking about. Students eating in the changing room is simply because the canteen is too small for the number of students.
It has nothing to do with Muslim students cant see non Muslims having their lunch
I think this MdSabu has some nice white friends. However, he loses his argument by describing them as ‘white’, which in a way suggests being white is synonymous with being ‘non-muslim.’
The larger issue, however, is the behaviour of Muslims in countries with a non-Muslim majority. Muslims in such countries tend to accept non-Muslims drinking alcohol or eating pork or doing other things Muslims can’t or shouldn’t do. They accept this not because are they are more tolerant, but because they know they don’t have the power to object. And even if they do find it objectionable, they have little choice but to walk away from it.
Having explained that, I want to highlight that some people, be they muslims or non-muslims, know how to imagine the situation or sentiments of people around them. This is called empathy. MdSabu’s non-muslim friends probably used empathy when they refrained from eating in front of him.
The school headmaster lacked empathy when he assigned the non-Muslims to the changing room for their lunchtime meals. He should have tried to put himself in the shoes of the non-muslim students and their parents. Certainly, if he had used the feeling of empathy, he would have understood that some people might feel humiliated about eating in a changing room.
It is impossible to know the headmaster’s intentions or thought processes. Perhaps he had a lapse of judgement or perhaps he assigned the changing room for the sake of expediency, but I certainly doubt it was due to malicious intent. It is unlikely he gain the position headmaster of a Sekolah Kebangsaan had he harboured ill-will towards children of other races. Other people would have picked up on his bias and prevented him from reaching such a lofty position.
Then again, probably not.
I think a growing number of non-Muslims in Malaysia harbour the belief that Malays/Muslims in positions of authority are insensitive towards their needs and feelings. They think the whole system, –dominated by Malays/Muslims– is rigged against them. Such people believe that, in general, any Malay leader is not mindful of the non-Muslim needs and sentiments.
So who is guilty in this changing room lunch debacle? Which side is biased? Both sides.
I just wonder if the protests and anger would be as great if the same decisions were made by a headmaster who was non-Muslim. Or, consider another hypothetical situation. Imagine if a few Malay students in a Chinese vernacular school were made to eat in a changing room, would there be such an uproar?
wow….that is very brutal…..
There are people up there writiing at length trying to make me “loss my argument”.
This jampi bloke with just ” However, he loses his argument by describing them as ‘white’, which in a way suggests being white is synonymous with being ‘non-muslim.” has already defeated me.
true to his name….Maybe there is some powerful jampi serapah involved as well…
Helen, you might as well just delete those hundred of comments above and just leave jampi’s comment in this posting…..apparently I have already loss!
It seems like my argument revolves around whether the “white” that I refer to being synanomous to non or not……huhu…which is yeah….. the main point that i was trying to convey to everybody…
mdsabu, when one decided to take a plunge into cyber world commenting, he/she has to be thick face enough. So don’t worry too much about losing an argument or what not. But that’s my own thinking.
Btw, since you mentioned that you’re in Australia, if you have kids, how do you make sure they can fast properly in school when the rest of the Mat Salleh kids are eating during Ramadhan?
I dont care winning or losing…..if I win …would the malay become united? would majority of the nons become more softer if their minority-majority approach?
How do I make sure my kids stay fasting?
You dont and you cant….if they want to break their fast…nobody will knows…only Allah knows….
That is not just in Aussie…that would be the same all over the world including Malaysia…
You never “make sure”….all that you can do is prepare them with knowledge..
I sort of understand where you are going with this line of questioning……
The issue that I am trying to put forward by “forcing nons to eat in toilet” is not “to ensure the muslim kids will stay fasting”.
It is more the question to nons….”Why cant you voluntarily do this when there is a chance esp when you know your fellow muslim is fasting?”.
If you dont want to….fine…no body could force you
And I say it again…not that we mind you nons doing it….
“And I say it again…not that we mind you nons doing it….”
u just go around in circles, i dont how many times do u have to rehash the same point, which obviously contradict yr own mind, and u r thick face enough to claim others miss yr point.
Yeah I have said it over and over again…because people keep on intentionally misinterpret it including you…
Ohh…I was the one who wrote the statement and if anything I am the most qualified to clarified my own…
I may have thick face….but the thickness of your face must be double of that…because you have the audacity to reject when even the owner of the statement itself refuted your interpretation of his statement…….because after many of repeating the same thing…
Yeah…and you still miss the point….I guess not just thick face…but thick head as well…
Maybe you should clarify the “contradiction”.
Apologies to MdSabu. It was not my intent to diminish his point.
However, I am glad that I raised a few eyebrows and got the attention of this blog.
If the HM were a non- Malay/non-Muslim and if Malay students in a Chinese school were made to eat in a changing room, this would be a non issue.
Most Malays are known to be timid and not vocal. The Malays have to change their mind set or else kena tindas by the minorities. From this day onwards, the Malays should wake up and do the same as the nons. Put up any discriminations we encounter from the nons in FB and let it go viral.
Anon, I don’t share your opinion that if the situation were reversed and it was Malay students put in the changing room to segregate them from pork-eating Chinese pupils in vernacular school, that there would be no fuss kicked up by the Muslim parents.
I’ll put up your comment for general reflection. Thanks.
“I’ll put up your comment for general reflection.”
Aiya! I sudah cakap la pasal ni, my anak-anak saudara dan kawan-kawan yang pergi SJKC tapi tak pernah komplen pasal tempat makan dekat kantin, Mereka semua bayar youran penuh dan tak pernah pun minta layanan istimewa untuk dapat tempat makan yang lain; sebab kantin SJKC tak Halal.
re: “tak pernah komplen pasal tempat makan dekat kantin”
Were they put in the “changing room” opposite tandas?
Eating at the same canteen (their own food), where non halal food is serve.
I am not sure about now. But in 1990’s in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, 5-Star hotels serve Halal and non-halal food at the same buffet table.
Can someone here verifies how it is now over there?
When I was there (Dubai) some years back upscale restaurants served pork but I personally never came across it on the same buffet table.
I hear there have been tightening of rules on such food but I don’t think getting non halal food is a problem.
This may be helpful with regards to Dubai:
There is no need to be paranoid. Be critical, not paranoid.
On the other end of spectrum, you may want to know that vast majority of Malays feel that other races(meaning Chinese in general) only think about them (Chinese) only.
Despite whatever said about Malay(meaning UMNO), I must say that UMNO’s rule is a hallmark of benevolence, generosity that continue to draw inspiration.
Of course you will laugh. where in the world you will find a government funds vernacular school. where in the world once an immigrant just a fortnight ago appointed as a Governor of state(Leong Yew Koh as Governor of Malacca).
Malay’s sin(as per chinese view) is only because they hold the power. It is already a sin to hold power. A good Malay political party must be a party of “melukut ditepi gantang” like MCA.
A good Malay must be ‘papa kedana”. A good Malay must be racist. A good Malay would be the like of Mohd Sabu who everyone loves but not respected because he is viewed as a court jester.
A politician like Dr Mahathir must be bad as as a Malay politician should be “dungu”. Better still, a good Malay politician must have attitude of disdain but only to Malay interest.
YUP. THE PROTEST WOULD NOT BE THAT GREAT if the reverse is the truth.
AND YOU WOULD NOT READ “disgusting” as the headline on a daily if that happen in vernacular school.
re: Leong Yew Koh
He was a Catholic and his daughters were nuns.
re: The J-Star headline
The editors thought the incident was “distasteful” (a word that is liked by the evangelistas such as Hannah Yoeh, aside from their other favourite word “low class”).
Yup. It is “distasteful” as the headmaster is a Malay. I bet you will not find the headline if the situation is reversed.
I agree with you on this one Shamshul. The J-Star is a nest of snooty evangelistas.
I am not paranoid. I am just asking the hypothetical questions. I am not in Malaysia currently, so I can’t measure the temperature on this issue. All I know is that this story has been picked up in international news, including in the Gulf, where I currently am.
Aside from newspaper reports, I want to tell you such sensational stories are carried and amplified by word of mouth.
In a recent ramadan gathering at the Malaysian consulate, a Chinese-Malaysian wore a T-shirt that read “I ‘heart’ Malaysia”. I found that amusing. Does he need to declare that loves Malaysia with a T-shirt? Coming to the Malaysian consulate alone would suffice.
“In a recent ramadan gathering at the Malaysian consulate, a Chinese-Malaysian wore a T-shirt that read “I ‘heart’ Malaysia”.
I think he is genuine about it, I may be bias towards CINA DAP most of the time, I can relate to a story of one of my DAP college mate told me this “Malaysia is still the best” after his first trip to Europe.
“Aside from newspaper reports, I want to tell you such sensational stories are carried and amplified by word of mouth.”
It has always been like that…..
After reading some of the comments on this (I cannot bear to read all), I would like to think that Allah (because the HM is Muslim) has given the HM a task to create this scenario to expose the weakness in humans.
Whomever can learn from this and become a wee bit wiser will be the winner and move closer towards their own spiritual enlightenment.
I still salute the MAJORITY Muslims who show restraint and tolerance towards this and other difficult issues in this holy month.
Salam and Selamat Berpuasa.
Surprising to read that a person with a name like “Casey” can channel the idea it was ‘Allah’ who gave the ‘task’ to one of his believers.
I guess Vishnu, Murugam or a whole host of Hindu gods motivated the Hindu mother to post on facebook?
Well, everything happens for a reason. It is just that for different levels of spiritual understanding, the Almighty one will always test in different ways.
“Allah” as I know from my Malay friends, is Almighty and nothing you try to write will sway my understanding of that.
When a spiritual leader was asked what he would do if someone flushes his religious books down the toilet bowl, his simple reply was “I would call a plumber”. Well, that is spiritual maturity.
Casey = KC, which is my initial.
“Everything happens for a reason” is the same new-age ideology propagated by spiritualist and shamans everywhere. Some things happen by accident, due to negligence or poor judgement, not always as you surmise by a ‘reason,’ secular, divine or otherwise.
The school canteen issue has been blown out of proportion. The headmaster was stupid, full stop.
Fortunately, no one was hurt physically, despite threats to the contrary. Had the kids contracted food poisoning or died, like the Indian kids in the state of Bihar, then we should all show solidarity and outrage.
This issue fits a theme that shows that non-Muslims are bullied or persecuted in predominantly Muslim countries, while the reverse is allegedly uncommon.
Muslims are really unsophisticated when it comes to the media, and they generally lack the ability to make cogent arguments in their defence. Serves them right if they get the short end of the stick.
Surely not helping to when people are talking behind their back!
Reply to islam1st #230
“Hey don’t shoot the messengers. I know for a fact that your people are good at inquisitions. Having any lately?”
How’s that imprisoning of rape victims coming along? Feeling aggrieved, yet, kemosabe ?
Denials is good eh?!
I dunno’, you tell me ? You got nothin’, man. Just the urge to type. But that’s ok, as long as you amuse me.
‘I dunno’, you tell me ?’
It is good. Alive and kicking!
Good to hear. Still have no idea what you’re going on about but at least you seem happy.
Reply to islam1st #251
“I don’t normally explain myself…….”
Not explaining yourself is axiomatic. The fact that you stalk me on every thread and take umbrage that this blog is my daily routine, when it is evidently yours, is just hypocritical.
I could care less if you want to be my friend but what I do mind is your pathetic one liner troll post and your inability to keep from commenting on my post which by the way you claimed you were not going to respond to.
You care enough to stalk me on every thread, even when by now you should realize that our interaction for the most part is toxic.
It is you who have no clue. You never will but I tell you what. Since you can’t keep your dick in your pants when it comes to me, I won’t respond to your troll posts or anything you ever say.
Sounded very intellectual until you wrote ‘I could care less’.
Let David Mitchell explain [YouTube].
Are you the same Conrad who used to frequent RPK’s Malaysia-today website?
Well I don’t write to sound intellectual. I go with the flow as far as Malaysian English patois is concerned.
Helen’s blog is the only local political blog I comment on.
But I am curious as to who this other Conrad is. Are our posting styles similar ?
Quite similar, as I recall. But RPK recently erected a registration wall. I guess he should expect visitors to his site to drop precipitously.
So, are you not happy with my dick now? I guess I’m pretty small!
Mari kita sokong sama-sama:
Sokong guru besar
Seorang ibu pelajar sekolah berkenaan memberikan komen bahawa dia tiada masalah dengan guru dan pengurusan sekolah yang membuat keputusan mengubah suai bilik persalinan itu kepada tempat makan dan sudah dimaklumkan kesulitan itu sejak sebelum puasa lagi.
“Orang luar yang tidak tahu hujung pangkal berkongsi perkara yang belum sahih lagi.. tolonglah jangan jadikan Facebook ini sebagai medium mahkamah (menjatuhkan hukuman sebelum disabitkan).
“SK Seri Pristana ini sangat kecil, ada empat kelas untuk setiap darjah. Tahun ini bilangan kelas bertambah dan murid terpaksa mengharungi kelas terapung. Jadi, hentikan semua tohmahan.. bukan anak anda yang belajar di sekolah itu pun,” katanya.
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