Posted in Evangelista Bintang Tiga

The Malay dilemma is the Chinese

Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s column in the NST online yesterday was headlined ‘The Chinese dilemma‘.

Dr M wrote that the remnant of PAP had set up the DAP to carry on undermining Chinese support for the MCA.

DAPpap
Saka diwarisi

In a companion piece on the same day titled ‘Chinese better off after Merdeka‘, Dr M said that “DAP, by undermining MCA is what causes the Chinese representation in the government to be weak”.

What the ex-premier said in his article yesterday is an extension of his Gelang Patah ultimatum.

R.I.P.

Dr M wrote:

“Battered, accused of being lackeys of Umno, MCA has gradually lost the support of the Chinese. It is now but a shadow of its former self. And with its weakening, the idea of sharing with the Malays political and economic power has become insupportable.”

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In other words, Dr M has declared that Sino-Malay power-sharing has become insupportable. So where does this leave the Umno-MCA relationship?

paste

His arch nemesis Lim Kit Siang immediately responded to Dr M’s article.

Kit Siang’s rebuttal has a very long title: ‘Mahathir is trying to set the agenda for the upcoming Umno party elections with his dangerous myth of “the Chinese dilemma” recklessly and falsely accusing the Chinese out to oust the political power of the Malays‘.

Kit Siang wrote:

<Excerpt>

“When I contested in the Gelang Patah constituency in the 13th general election, former Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad accused me of wanting to create a ‘racial confrontation’ between the Malays and Chinese in Johore.

“This was a pack of lies. In fact, events have shown that it is Mahathir in the past few months who has been trying to create a ‘racial confrontation’, particularly after the May 5 general election results, in his campaign to pit one race against another.”

Kit Siang is adamant that “there is no attempt by the Chinese or any other community to oust the political power of the Malays”.

505Parlimen

Kit Siang believes that what is at stake is whether “Umno and Umno-putras” can be made “to give way to a new Malaysian politics of multi-racialism, good governance, public integrity, freedom and justice”.

He wrote:

“The challenges before Malaysians is not whether the Malays would lose political power but whether the 13th general elections has started a new political trend of more and more Malaysians, regardless of race, taking a stand against the politics of race in support of multi-racial politics and the pursuit of the Malaysian Dream where all her citizens are united as one people, rising above their ethnic, religious, cultural and linguistic differences as the common grounds binding them as one citizenship exceed the differences that divide them because of their ethnic, religious, linguistic and cultural divisions.”

The MCA mouthpreach The J-Star, which delivers daily DAP sermons, peddles the same line.

JuneWong

Aunty June Wong, the paper’s senior editor in a recent column wrote:

“Do we have a de Klerk or Gorbachev among our leaders who will demolish race-based politics and policies …”

Ball in MCA’s court

Kit Siang asked:

“Is the top MCA leadership in agreement with Mahathir’s dangerous and desperate racist vituperations and if not, are they prepared to publicly condemn his dangerous and desperate racist lies and concoction of ‘the Chinese dilemma’ of the Chinese making a grab for political power to oust the political power of the Malays?

“If Mahathir does not know or understand why MCA has lost all credibility and legitimacy as a political party, the reaction of the MCA top leadership to this poser should give him the proper insight and understanding.”

Mahathir Do Chinese want to share or seize power- Malaysiakini 2013-07-28 20-02-05

Dr M has characterized the dilemma for the Chinese as the choice of “whether to make a grab for political power”.

The answer to Dr M’s question is already known.

hanchiangRM

DAP cannot seize power alone. What is the MCA’s role in all of this?

MCA had let slip 90 percent of Chinese support to the opposition.

MCA allowed the media that it owns to campaign for the DAP evangelistas.

One commenter ‘Gig’ wrote @ 2013/07/28 at 6:01 pm:

“Regarding the DAP’s work, do you know some kids as young as Std 2 or 3, whom I doubt would know who the Education Minister is, but knows who Hannah Yeoh is?”

hannah yeoh

The J-Star‘s list of the 10 Most Powerful Women in Malaysia placed Hannah Yeoh at No.6. The list makers said that among the criteria for the public figures to be deemed “powerful” is their score on “media presence”.

Hannah Yeoh’s media presence owes a lot to the Star Group machinery going full throttle including its Scissorati promoting her on their online platforms.

The MCA is responsible for promoting and popularizing a host of DAP politicians including Tony Pua and Ong Kian Ming.

(correction: The MCA’s media is responsible for promoting … — 9.21am)
StarEditorVoteOKM

There is no Chinese dilemma.

The Chinese were 90 percent behind the DAP in GE13 and this percentage will increase to 95 percent by GE14. There is no split loyalties or conflict of allegiance.

It is still a question of the Malay dilemma.

The Umno dilemma is what to do with the MCA.

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

227 thoughts on “The Malay dilemma is the Chinese

  1. UMNO should seek reunification with PAS. But it has to wait for PAS’ old guards to die for the reunification to happen.

    UMNO should let MCA be in a comatose state until MCA decides for itself to wake up and reinvent its political policies.

    1. NST has been used by the Indians to advance their race until both PM and DPM were Indians at one time. Till today, NST give space for this old Indian to give his ludicurous views. [edited-deleted] He has nothing to add to the Malay cause.

      The situation actually is very simple.

      Melayu hanya perlu mengagihkan kekayaan Tanah Melayu dengan adil. Itu saja. Vehicle orang Melayu adalah UMNO tetapi sehingga kini orang India telah mencuri hak dan kekayaan dengan menggunakan UMNO melalui kaum India dalam UMNO seperti Mahathir, Anwar Ibrahim, subahan kamal, nor yakob, ali abul, zambri kader, merican, azeez rahim dsb.

      Orang Cina dan India di MIC atau MCA atau DAP tidak menghalang orang Melayu. Yang menghalang adalah Mahathir sendiri dan PakLah dan Najib. Yang memperkayankan Cina dan India adalah Mahathir sendiri.

      Sebab itu kata-kata Mahathir ni macam psycopath. Di depan Cina dia kata lain. Di depan Melayu dia kata Melayu adalah pengemis. Cina baik kalau mereka bagi anak dia saham dan jadi Pengarah. Macam kepala India. Belit Mahathir dan Anwar ni memang boleh di agak.

      1. Belit mahathir india,

        Now Mr Belit, there is no need to be “kurang ajar” in your response.

        1. La ni ada satu lagi wave untuk pecah dan perintah orang Melayu dengan menanamkan kebencian kepada Mahathir. Kalau ini berjayaaka retorik umum ABC & ABCD akan perlahan-lahan terhapus.

          Orang-orang ini sememangnya cetek kefahaman mereka terntang apa itu Melayu!

          Instigator sebegini bukanlah terdiri daripada orang Melayu seperti juga Initiator projek ini! Dari konteks bahasa juga kelihatan!

      2. Kalau ini contoh orang melayu yang kuat sokong Pakatan, maksudnya ada orang melayu yang amat rasis dan apa yang dikatakan orang Cina sangat benar.

        Kenapa nak kaitkan orang India dengan perangai Mahathir dan sifatnya? Kaki putar belit bukan saja dari kaum india, malah terbukti bahawa orang dari kaum lain pun kuat memutar belit lidahnya.

        1. Jampi awak tak tahu bace ke.
          Penulis menunjukan auta Mahathir yang tk pernah ditunjukan oleh Presiden-presiden UMNO sebelum ini. Senarai aset berbilion yang dipunyai oleh orang Cina sangat memalukan bangsa Melayu dan ahli UMNO.

          Untuk menutup hakikat ini Mahathir cuba membangkitkan perasaan Melayu konon dia bersama mereka dengan mengapikan meraka adalah beggars in their own country.

          Apa kaitan darah India dengan perangai penipuan Mahahtir.?
          Tentu sekali ada kaitan sebab fakta menunjukan Mahathir membuat pertimbangan yang memberatkan orang India seperti Ananda Krishnan, Ali Abul, nor Yakub. Jangan kerana takut di panggil rasis maka kita menutup kebenaran.

          Fatkta menunjukan harta dan aset Tanah Melayu diberi kepada Cina dan India bertentangan dengan perlembagaan.

          Sebab itu kita perlu terangkan dan memahami cara Mahathir berfikir. Tentu sekali bapanya dari Kerala membayangi segala percarturan Mahathir.

      3. ini contoh kebanyakan melayu yg ade dimalaysia,musuh depan mata tak nampak.tapi yg dia nampak adalah pemimpin umno yg rasuah.dan benci nya yg meluap2,memang betul ade pemimpin unmo yg ambil kesempatan tapi tak semua.ade yg ikhlas.so we ,that u all pakatan supporter called as apologist for corruption urging to all the malay muslim in this country stand united together to defend the malay lead goverment.umno must win hundred and twenty or above seat of parliment, in the next general election other wise bye2 lah melayu.umno must take back the seat ,that have been given to other componen such as mca or others.kalu skunk dgn 88 umno dah tak de taring,nak table kan “conversion bil” pun tak boleh,mcm mana nak defend islam.actually we the muslim majority country in a very2 deep trouble..trust me i know it..if we kacau bilau ,esok lusa..bila bangsa asing berkuasa ..nak sembahyang pun tak boleh..barulah tersedar tp dah terlambat…

        1. “actually we the muslim majority country in a very2 deep trouble..”

          Actually, the Malay Muslims in Malaysia will be in deeper trouble if they still do not wake up to the fact that they had and have been used by the mamak bumiputeras who enrich themselves and label Malays “LAZY and STUPID”.

    2. Tun M is saying what MCA should be saying. What a shame, MCA memang hidup segan tapi kiasi!

      The long and winded title of the LKS blog’s article just to prove of the typical kiasu mentality embedded in the genes!

  2. yang sedihnya…umno (read najib) inability to response and reflect the malay ground root sentiments. tun mahathir is literally shouting at najib to do something tapi still sibuk bermain2 dgn kucing.

  3. I felt betrayed by MCA since I voted for MCA in the last election but I found out majority of MCA members in that constituency voted for Pakatan.

    Come next GE, we will lobby hard that UMNO should take over the MP constituency since MCA had lost it twice.

    1. Setem,

      The writing is already for all to see. What happened in Alor setar?

      Clearly Malays were not happy when MCA contested there. as such, one Malay joined in as a protest. The result? He votes for BN was split, enabling a racist from DAP to represent a largely Malay constituency.

      The same result are seen in Bandar Tun Razak, Kuantan to name a few constituents.

      Analysis: The days of UMNO’s habit of babysitting MCA is over. Malays are sending their signals for UMNO to see. Malays already know that MCA is another ‘extension” of DAP.

      1. Tail is waging the dog for far too long already. Si anjing pula mudah berpuasa hati, berlari ke sana ke mari dengan tulang yang diberi!

  4. Ms H. IF THE BRILLIANT LEE KUAN YEW WITH HIS 9 FAILED POLICIES FOR SINGAPORE DARES TO SHOUT ‘SINGAPORE FOR SINGAPOREANS’ AT HONG LIM GREEN SINGAPORE TODAY, MAYBE THE SINGAPOREAN TROJAN HORSE DAP’S PAP SLOGAN ‘MALAYSIA FOR MALAYSIANS’ HAS SOME CREDENCE !

    1. “THE BRILLIANT LEE KUAN YEW WITH HIS 9 FAILED POLICIES FOR SINGAPORE”

      Wow, with NINE failed policies, he can still put a red dot like Singapore amongst the richest countries of the world, imagine what would it be if he had succeeded?

      Since you profess that you are smarter, please do something for Malaysia to make ordinary Malaysians like me feel proud about. I am sure that with all the natural resources, the task would be much simpler for you.

  5. “Regarding the DAP’s work, do you know some kids as young as Std 2 or 3, whom I doubt would know who the Education Minister is, but knows who Hannah Yeoh is?”

    I know in Penang one shopkeeper told me his 3 year old can say Mummy Ubah Ubah Ubah to his wife and will play with the bird toy.

    The kid can even boo Najib.

  6. there is this non voting class, the elites.. The class is made of the old elite, chinese business class and, the newly born elite, malay business class.

    What is understood in PRU 13 is the Chinese want equality, Malays never promise.

    The old and new class issues suggest Malays wants justice. Chinese want equality.

    Kena kongsilah.

      1. Agree. They not gonna get it. They know that, but that will not stop them from trying. They will not give us justice either. But we will not stop trying. We all will die trying. Trust is earn not given away.

        1. MeorUsa,

          They (the nons) will succeed in taking over Putrajaya if the Malays were to continue to split into many smaller factions. Now we see the rise of Shiah followers in Malaysia and if the government of today does not curb its spreading, the Malays will be further divided not only along political lines but also religion affiliations. Do we want to be like Iraq and Syria?

      2. I cannot say anything for other Chinese, but me, I want all Malaysian Malays to wake up and become smart enough to realise that the old man that they trusted had betrayed them and hijacked their rights for the benefit of his mamak cronies who have no qualms about labeling Malays “LAZY and STUPID” after enriching themselves.

  7. A dilemma is an issue or problem involving two choices or two possibilities. I think the Malays have a lot of choices on how to deal with the Chinese, not just two.

    Mahathir was clear about the Chinese dilemma — keep ‘kongsi’ concept going or ‘grab’ power, as he puts it.

    Personally I think Mahather simplified his argument too much. But therein lies his genius. He has the ability to bring together historical context and communal aspirations and distil it to form that is understandable to his readers.

    Lim Kit Siang rebuttal is more of the same thing– no historical context, no ideological explanation and no intellectual credibility. Instead, I saw a lot of big words !

    If LKS was serious about writing an intelligent riposte, then he should have directly addressed the dilemma. Did he declare that DAP has no aspirations for power? Or did he declare DAP will continue with a kongsi concept with its sister parties?

    LKS wrote: “political power of the Malays in Malaysia have never been in danger and there is no attempt by the Chinese or any other community to oust the political power of the Malays.”

    How does he prove the above to be true? He doesn’t explain it in technical terms. He just gives empty rhetoric.

    1. I stopped listening to LKS long time ago when he reneged on his promise that he would quit politics if DAP did not win Penang during the GE in the 90s. DAP failed but he’s still around.

      He epitomizes the worst, baddest, terukest, Cina Malaysia.

      Period.

      1. Try reading LKS blog. Macam berucap on top of invory tower. Like giving a speech at Dap congress. Twist and turn and distort. Itulah tactic dia. Selepas baca kena telun panadol.

        My guess is that he will cling on even if he is 80, blind and rolling in wheelchair. He will be Nik Aziz, Karpal Singh and Stevie Wonder 3-in-1.

    2. Re: “Mahathir was clear about the Chinese dilemma — keep ‘kongsi’ concept going or ‘grab’ power, as he puts it.”

      That’s a dilemma alright. A false dilemma.

      Re; “If LKS was serious about writing an intelligent riposte, then he should have directly addressed the dilemma.”

      The problem with LKS is that he joyously attacks MM’s strawman . If “Malay” power were really in jeopardy, would UMNO still be standing ?

      The fact that the DAP can’t get into Putrajaya without Malay support, is evidence that the Malays would never lose power.

      Heck, even PAS has a chance of getting into power without Chinese support than the DAP without Malay support.

      What is really the issue is that the Chinese in the DAP seem to be on equal footing with the Malays in PR, which vexes the former Prime Minister because God knows, the MIC in the form of Samy Vellu admitted their input meant squat while in BN.

      The MCA as the money men had it better of course, but in the end, it as Mahahtir has said, greed got the better of everyone, as if he had no part to play in it.

      1. Conrad,

        You’re spot on.

        [Quote: The fact that the DAP can’t get into Putrajaya without Malay support, is evidence that the Malays would never lose power. ]

        Tun is the master of diversion. In place of real issues like declining global competitiveness, rampant corruption etc, an imaginary foe in the form of power hungry non-bumis (mostly Chinese) intent on wrestling the Malays of their ketuanan is resurrected.

        1. HH sorry to burst your bubble. But it doesn’t take much to turn the Malays against one another. And if DAP ever gets the chance to re-draw the electoral boundaries, you can expect the parliament to suddenly have a majority of Chinese. From there it would be a hop, skip and a jump to making Malaysia a republic.

          History has shown that it is possible for minorities to rule a country. See

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority

          1. Re: “And if DAP ever gets the chance to re-draw the electoral boundaries, you can expect the parliament to suddenly have a majority of Chinese.”

            Yeah, this is one of those mendacious arguments put forward to demonize the Chinese community. Redrawing the electoral map on that scale would mean that every single Malay MP would have to be on-board with this idea.

            You are very right that there have been minorities who rule a country but if we take a closer look we would discover that it was never because they redrew the electoral maps.

            1. Woah, hold your horses there Conrad. I am not accusing anyone of anything. It is all hypothetical.

              I do remember a pie chart that a pro-UMNO supporter shared with me. It showed that if Pakatan came to power, non-muslims would be the majority in Parliament. I can’t find that graphic now.

              I am sure a non-Muslims parliament would be amenable to redrawing electoral maps. Remember, hitler and mussolini came to power via a democratic process.

              1. I haven’t got a projection of the MPs’ religious affiliations should Pakatan ever attain Putrajaya but below is the current situation whereby the Muslims are in the minority.

                null

                1. Yes but if PAS , PKR and the DAP won every seat they stood for, would Non Muslims be the majority ?

                  1. Edit to add.

                    And jampi, please don’t take my tone as hostility. I am really interested in your perspective even if I may not agree with it.

                  2. I’m aware of the angle that you bring up.

                    Pakatan has 89 Parliament seats. Discounting changes post-delineation and going by the 2013 constituency boundaries, a simple majority requires 112 seats.

                    Current: What would be the religious make-up of the 23 seats of which Pakatan is short?

                    Future: If there are more new urban seats created by the EC, this would give Pakatan the advantage.

                    OKM’s Serdang seat, HY’s Subang Jaya and Yeo Bee Yin’s Damansara Utara seats are humongous and should be sliced into two.

                    If Pakatan controlled the EC, it is possible for the commission to hand over a win to the opposition in GE14.

                    1. Re “Current: What would be the religious make-up of the 23 seats of which Pakatan is short?”

                      Exactly you’re good at numbers, could there be a Non Muslim majority if they had those seats ?

                    2. That would be hard to figure out as a lot of homework needs to be done looking at all 222 seats, and I don’t venture into Sabah & Sarawak politics.

                      Furthermore the delineation will tweak the electoral map somewhat.

                      This is something the Umno strategists and Utusan should examine. They have all the resources and intel.

                    3. Of those 23 seats, it will be unlikely it will be held by the DAP. They will have to contest more seats and take from the allocation given to their compatriots. It is a move they would be foolish to do.

                      The focus is now on East Malaysia, which explains why Najib is trying to keep the Sabah and Sarawakian MP’s from leaving. On the other hand, the East Malaysian BN representatives know they have more leverage to press Putrajaya on their demands.

                      Regarding the issue of 20 percent Christian MP’s vs. 9-10% population, the majority of the Christian representatives you listed are actually from Barisan Nasional.

                      Sabah and Sarawak has many Parliament seats, about 56 seats for 5.5 million people. Sabah and Sarawak also has very large Christian populations.

                    4. Helen,

                      Its cut both ways, Helen.

                      Example :Kelana Jaya with Malay voters form approximately 40% over. So, if Kelana Jaya is to be sliced, it can result in one constituents with heavy Chinese concentration and the other with Malay concentration.

                      Population is not the only factor. Some constituents are so big, as a big as a state( rural Sarawak). It is sparsely populated. But it merits a constituent due to a geographical reality.

              2. re: “It is all hypothetical.”

                Agreed but it’s a hypothetical without a logical foundation. Could Non Muslims be a majority in a PR government ? I just don’t see this happening. The numbers just don’t add up.

                Not only that it would mean that with the current electoral map, the Non Muslims would have to be voted in in lieu of their Muslim counterparts. Don’t see that happening. If there is no possibility of passing even this hurdle why hypothesize on something which just fuels racial divisions ?

                re: “Remember, hitler and mussolini came to power via a democratic process”

                Yes but what exactly has this got to do with minorities redrawing electoral maps ?

                1. re: “Could Non Muslims be a majority in a PR government?”

                  Christians make up 9-10 percent of the population but 20 percent of the MPs — see KJ John’s column that I copypasted.

                  1. Is this the manufactured controversy, column ? If so I’m not getting the relevance.

            2. Very true. The voters who side with the opposition usually reside in the cities, towns, suburbs, and urbanised regions (Kelantan being an exception). Even redrawing boundaries will result in little change.

        2. It is refreshing if not perplexing to have people to think that DAP was merely a bystander as far as imaginary foe is concern!

          Victimisation is one of the most profitable business around. Ones only need to asked Israel and Germany on the amount of euro changing hand anually between these two countries.

          DAP it seems is a fast learner!

          1. Exactly. Their rise has been phenomenal. So I won’t put it past them to wrest power away from other parties. They are really smart at playing the game. PAS are pathetic in their inability to grasp the complexities of politics. Pathetic or just naive. Take your pick

            1. DAP has been around since 1966.

              The phenomenal rise is their evangelistas and not Ye Olde DAP 1.0.

              I won’t put it past them (DAP 3.0) to wrest power away from other parties either and to do it by whatever duplicitous and devious means.

              1. ‘PAS are pathetic in their inability to grasp the complexities of politics. Pathetic or just naive.’

                Both. Certain segment, be it leaders or members are pathetic. Certain is certainly naive. Just like the ordinary Egyptians throwing stones at one another or worse still Syrians killing one another.

                Some are even worse, maybe we can label them as pathetically naive, like the hard headed ulamas, blinded by their hate against UMNO. Anwar had capitalises on this and so is DAP!

                UMNO on the other hand, post Tun M, is definitely pathetic. Looking at it now, post GE13, UMNO is at the height of it!

                Just look at the mess we are in right now!

      2. Conrad,

        I am not so sure about that. PAS does not have a chance to power EVEN with Chinese support. WHY? Because PAS support from Malay community is waning even in Malay heartland such as Kelantan, Kedah. Even in urban area, UMNO received more support from Malays as compared to that of PAS.

        The issue is very simple:that DAP feeds lies to Chinese and gives false hope to them. DAP’s method is by inciting the Chinese to hate UMNO(meaning Malays) . DAP lies by inciting to make Chinese feel that they are badly treated by UMNO(meaning Malay led government).

        Whether Chinese community realises or not, Chinese are being led to confront Malays. and the confrontation is getting physical. Ever heard non Chinese of dark complexion thwarted by racist Chinese on polling days?

        Ever heard of Chinese throwing pigs in to mosques? Ever heard of Chinese racist screaming in fast food restaurants because of toys?

        BUt one thing that i agree is that no one thinks that UMNO is equal to say MCA. The former earns its place by winning head on against PAS in Malay majority areas. The latter(MCA) is dying . Had not for standing in Malay majority constituents, it would have been dead by now.

        MCA now is seen by malays as another version of DAP. I am afraid it will not survive anymore in Malay majority areas. Malays are changing too.

        Not just the Chinese. Just as Chinese are becoming less and less tolerant towards malays, Malays respond by refusing to vote for MCA in Malay areas.

        So, Dr Mahathir is telling the truth point blank.

        .

        .

        1. Shamsul,

          Politicians tell the truth by mistake. Dr. Mahathir is the ultimate politician, which means he would never make such a mistake.

          You may be right about PAS, but my point was theoretically they COULD get into Putrajaya without Chinese support. Meanwhile the DAP with 95% Chinese support would probably just end up standing outside the gate.

          While we could both make an argument that UMNO and the DAP are feeding lies to their preferred racial demographic, the question remains , are the Chinese attempting to seize Malay political power ? The answer to this is simple. Demographically they can’t. And as the years go by, they will eventually learn, that demography is destiny.

          I heard about your polling day incident and I actually brought up the fact that OKM had accused a Malaysian of being a “foreigner”.

          And no I didn’t realize that Chinese was throwing pigs in the mosques, I heard it was a wild boar’s head and they have not found the culprits, yet. As for the rude Chinese customer and unprofessional Malay fast food staff……..lets not get into that.

          While I do see this as an EVENTUAL Sino-Malay confrontation, I do not think that it would go anywhere unless the Malays decide that UMNO and only UMNO could represent them. As it is the Malay vote is split.

          Now UMNO’s polemics may be gaining traction but I would hesitate to make any generalizations until, the Malays make that choice.

          As for your comments on the MCA, personally I don’t think there is even a dilemma. UMNO does not need the MCA as facilitators to the Chinese plutocrats anymore. They can do that by themselves.

          MCA is only a fig leaf for the so called power sharing formula. In other words the majority of the Chinese voting public have decided they do not want to share power with UMNO but rather they want to share power with PKR and PAS.

          This is not the same as saying that the Chinese want to seize Malay power. All political parties want power. But as I read somewhere (sorry can’t remember where), racial politics is a bitch. And apparently an unforgiving one.

          1. Conrad,

            re: “Meanwhile the DAP with 95% Chinese support would probably just end up standing outside the gate. […] are the Chinese attempting to seize Malay political power? The answer to this is simple. Demographically they can’t.”

            Hence the attempt at fudging demography like HY’s tudung and OKM’s puasa and “insya Allah”.

            re: “the majority of the Chinese voting public have decided they do not want to share power with UMNO but rather they want to share power with PKR and PAS. This is not the same as saying that the Chinese want to seize Malay power.”

            But DAP is stronger than either PAS or PKR and hence the primus inter pares.

            1. Re: “Hence the attempt at fudging demography like HY’s tudung and OKM’s puasa and “insya Allah”.”

              Nah-lah. That’s about subverting norms and normalizing Christian demagoguery.

              Re: “But DAP is stronger than either PAS or PKR and hence the primus inter pares”

              This is why in my opinion, the alliance will eventually fail. It’s not because that the DAP is first among equals but rather because, PAS and PKR will find it difficult to define what exactly is the Malay middle ground. I could be wrong though.

              1. No, you’re right. The oppo marriage of convenience will fracture. It is only a matter of time.

                However the evangelist rabble rousers will really screw up the country in the meantime.

            2. quote, “But DAP is stronger than either PAS or PKR and hence the primus inter pares.” unquote.

              yes but only for now. wait until LKS drops dead and we will see how strong DAP is.

          2. Conrad,

            “Ini kalilah” is a slogan with the intention to topple BN( or more specifically the supreme:UMNO).

            No need to be a majority race to seize power. It has been done: In Perak under Nizar, DAP was the controlling party. Malays view Nizar as a mere puppet.

            The truth is that chinese are led into thinking they can topple UMNO and seize power. Anwar was a mere tool just like DAP “kudakan” PAS.

            So, Chinese went all out. so they played out “fitnah” on 40000 Bangladeshi voting when they knew themselves not possible . Come May 6, reality starts to sink in. The government of day is mauled but managed to stand the assault.

            So obsessed with hated towards UMNO(meaning towards Malay), that they abandon long lasting ties with the Malays.

            “Ini kalilah” in reality was an attempt to seize power. Only because DAP fed the Chinese with lies , it did not spend time to study the malays well.

            But do not be “kecewa”. Some Malay politicians too were “obsessed” to get Chinese vote. THe PM for example spend time to get chinese votes to the point he did not spend time to think .

            [edited-deleted]

            Finally , at times that matters the most, Malays (thanks to Allah) were able to see. All because they have not abandonned “iman dan takwa”.

            “kerana iman dan takwa, they were able to see what Najib failed to see”.

            “dan kerana iman dan takwa lah, mereka berjaya halang DAP kuasai Perak”.

            1. Shamsul,

              I get the UMNO talking points, I really do. This is why discussion is impossible. You disregard the fact that not only the Chinese are clamouring for Federal power but also other Malays. I would mention Indians but on last count the Indonesian diaspora is demographically more significant, so I have no idea why Indians would even be represented in the equation.

              While we may disagree about the situation in Perak, I think that for many Establishment Malays, they will always consider Malays aligned to Pakatan as the proxies of the Chinese. The irony of course is that PR Chinese are always worried, that PR Malays are displaying symptoms of UMNOism.

              Meanwhile when the Chinese and Indian reps (or what remains of them) of BN voice out their concerns – which is their job in the alliance- they are considered ungrateful and recalcitrant. The game goes on.

              This is actually old ground we are covering. I get that you view UMNO as the sole guardian of the Malay polity. I get that you view the Chinese community as traitors to the social contract and attempting to usurp Malay power and make the Malays “beggars in their own Land”.

              I was looking over the Kuala Besut results and UMNO after pledging nearly half a billion dollars only managed to increase their majority by a 158 votes or something like that. The previous count was 5k (+) to the Opposition and 8k (+) to UMNO.

              If you keep looking at this as purely as a Chinese power grab, you will miss the fact that the split in the Malay community points to a dissatisfaction then cannot be explained away by just demonizing the Chinese community.

              It would be interesting to see was edited/deleted from your post. You are normally very civil.

              1. Well Conrad, I believe you have read enough of Shamsul’s comments to see that he usually groups an issue into an ethnic block. An economic, environmental, or governance issue will become “Malays this”, or “Chinese that”, as if all Malays or all Chinese are solidly against or for the issue.

                This is despite the reality being otherwise as seen in the Kuala Besut by election, a BN stronghold by the way.

        2. Shamsul, Mahahtir level of thinking is passe.

          He is like an amnesic old man. Saying different things to different group of people.

          The facts is that his sons are billionirares… haha.. So is anwar relatives multi millionaires..

          So are yours..hehe

          What the Malay want now is power and money and asets of the country to be controlled by the Malays.

          The Chinese be damned! For too long they have been stealing diesel subsidies or rainforests. Until today there are not enough diesel because it has been siphoned off to chinesee factories.

          How can diesel consumption be more than petrol when only 10% of vehicles are diesel driven? All with the hlp of MCA of course.

      3. As I highlighted originally, Tun Mahathir simplified his argument too much. This caused his argument to become a shaky dichotomy of possibilities, which someone like you may consider false.

        Indeed it is eminently possible for the Chinese to ‘grab power’ and then share. But he used Singapore as an instructive example. Singapore has not shared power or economic prosperity with the Malay minority. According to Tun, the Chinese in Singapore have taken all, based on the idea of meritocracy.

        If singapore is a model for the future, then expect the Malays to suffer.

        1. Hence the false dichotomy, straw men and the various other mendacious points in his argument.

          The irony is, that by highlighting the so called “suffering” of the Malay community in Singapore, a minority community, he is indirectly conceding that minority communities here in Malaysia have suffered under Malay majoritarian rule or at least that the only possible dynamic.

          Of course claiming the Malays suffer in Singapore is about as moronic as the claim that the Chinese are labouring under an “apartheid like” system here.

          1. I never said Malays in Singapore suffer. I said that if Singapore is an example to be learnt from, then you can expect the Malaysian Malays to suffer.

            THe Malay political and economic position will take a significant hit. In terms of equity Malays overall are still far behind, and once the meritocracy that DAP lauds kicks in, the Malays will certainly fall further back and lose what little they had.

            Think of it this way. If, say, Malays in Malaysia are now with 15% equity, by the time DAP has its way, it will decline to probably 10% or lower. I can imagine DAP’s first order of business would be to attack Malay businessmen. Syed Moktar would certainly lose his billionaire status. There will be a run on his shares, for sure.

            The Singaporean Malays were always below the Chinese, and the only way for them was up, albeit at a slower pace than the Chinese, or the Indians for that matter.

            1. Re” I never said Malays in Singapore suffer. I said that if Singapore is an example to be learnt from, then you can expect the Malaysian Malays to suffer.”

              If the Malays in Singapore are not suffering, why would the Malays suffer in Malaysia, with whatever lessons learnt from Singapore ?

              Re: “THe Malay political and economic position will take a significant hit. In terms of equity Malays overall are still far behind, and once the meritocracy that DAP lauds kicks in, the Malays will certainly fall further back and lose what little they had.”

              Could you point to anything that PR has said or done that would give us any indication that they intend to practise any kind of meritocracy? But let’s say they did, – not considering Dr. Lim Tech Ghee’s findings on Malay equity and economic standing – surely the fact that after decades of rule, the Establishment cannot justify their polices when as you say the Malays overall are still far behind.

              Re; “Think of it this way. If, say, Malays in Malaysia are now with 15% equity, by the time DAP has its way, it will decline to probably 10% or lower. I can imagine DAP’s first order of business would be to attack Malay businessmen. Syed Moktar would certainly lose his billionaire status. There will be a run on his shares, for sure.”

              Good grief, why would the DAP do that? If anything the Ngeh cousins in Perak are cogent examples of how the DAP will play nice with Malay business interests. In fact I would argue that in order to show how Malay friendly they are, they would be more instant Malay businessmen, thanks to the benefice of a well connected DAP plutocrats.

              Re:”The Singaporean Malays were always below the Chinese, and the only way for them was up, albeit at a slower pace than the Chinese, or the Indians for that matter”

              Now you know how the Non Malays feel. But going up even at a slow pace is better then stagnating.

              1. I guess you are not one who plays the stock market? There is this thing called the herd mentality. UMNO / BN wins and the company associated with that party will see its share rise. THe reverse tends to happen, too, when a company falls out of favor with the ruling party.

                Syed Moktar is already being attacked for his alleged complicity and cronyism. See the Massimo vs Gardenia debacle. Do you think it was orchestrated by the ABU crowd?

                I don’t think I have to psychically bonds with the minds of LKS/LGE to predict every instance of when or the extent to which they will implement meritocracy. It is pretty evident from their rhetoric that it would happen, if they were in power. What’s wrong with meritocracy anyway? This is what the Chinese have always wanted, and to a certain degree the Indians.

                ‘Suffering’ may be a strong word to use about the Malays. I was being rather hyperbolic. But comparing the Malaysian Malays to the Singaporean Malays, it is quite self-evident that the economic progress of the Malaysian Malays *relative* to the Malaysian Chinese have outpaced the progress of the Singaporean Malays *relative* to the Singaporean Chinese. I know it’s rather hasty argument to make, but last I checked there are no Singaporean Malay billionaire. I choose number of billionares as a metric to measure success of a community.

                http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2010/08/05/the-malays-in-singapore-no-crutch-mentality/

                1. Re: “THe reverse tends to happen, too, when a company falls out of favor with the ruling party.”

                  But you are assuming that cronyism and the politics of patronage be it race based or otherwise is anathema to PR. Why should this be. PR has their own fair share of Malay plutocrats and the alliance has shown no evidence that they intend to change the system.

                  Re: Syed Moktar and ABU .

                  Sure its orchestrated by the ABU crowd however on another thread, I questioned why if the DAP was so against cronyism and the politics of patronage, do they turn a blind eye when the business community which supports them also has links with UMNO. My suggestion was to name and shame those PR (specifically DAP) companies which did business with UMNO.

                  Re:”What’s wrong with meritocracy anyway? This is what the Chinese have always wanted, and to a certain degree the Indians.”

                  And some Malays too. But it is the manner in which you frame the question. If there was nothing wrong with it, you would not use it as a rhetorical weapon against the DAP/Chinese. You want the Chinese/DAP to concede that are waiting to “impose” meritocracy on the Malay thus validating Mahathir’s concerns where the Malays would be beggars in their own land.

                  I do not see how a true meritocratic system would function in a class or race affirmative action milieu, but these are the inconvenient questions people like me bring up which cause the kool aid drinker to go ape shit.

                  Re: “But comparing the Malaysian Malays to the Singaporean Malays, it is quite self-evident that the economic progress of the Malaysian Malays *relative* to the Malaysian Chinese have outpaced the progress of the Singaporean Malays *relative* to the Singaporean Chinese.”

                  It is a hasty argument to make. So why make it? It would have been for more interesting for you to make the argument of the progress of the Singaporean Malays with regards to the Malay community here and attempt to understand how minorities thrive in ethnic majoritarian rule.

                  1. re:”It is a hasty argument to make. So why make it?”

                    How can comparing the progress of Malay Malaysia and Singapore in relative to their chinese counterpart be a hasty argument..??

                    Care to elaborate a little bit?

                    re: “It would have been for more interesting for you to make the argument of the progress of the Singaporean Malays with regards to the Malay community here and attempt to understand how minorities thrive in ethnic majoritarian rule.”

                    No…to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule..

                    hmmm.. now I feel like going to do some research and get back with some figure hopefully… or anyone else care to supply with the numbers?

                    re: “Of course claiming the Malays suffer in Singapore is about as moronic as the claim that the Chinese are labouring under an “apartheid like” system here.”

                    hmm..try stretch it a bit more…. Why dont you come to Sydney…. go to a place called Arncliffe.. there is a mosque there which is also the Australian Malay Association centre…. You can find many Singaporean Malay there, who would really love to differ with your view of not “Malay not suffering” and share their suffering story…

                    One thing I notice though, they are not as “clever” as their Malaysian chinese/indian counterpart in adding spices to their suffering story… you know la…

                    They haven’t include word like Apartheid Chinese State.. Segregated… Genocide etc….

                    1. Re: “How can comparing the progress of Malay Malaysia and Singapore in relative to their chinese counterpart be a hasty argument..??”

                      Actually I think the original comparison was the comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia.

                      Re”No…to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule..”

                      This is exactly my point. Compare the minorities in ethnic majoritarian rule.

                      Re: “hmmm.. now I feel like going to do some research and get back with some figure hopefully… or anyone else care to supply with the numbers?”

                      Please do. This is a far more honest argument to make. We could compare figures. One thing I find interesting is that there have been relative few scandals (in Singapore) involving Muslim (minority)religious institutes compared to Christian (majority) organizations.

                      Re:”You can find many Singaporean Malay there, who would really love to differ with your view of not “Malay not suffering” and share their suffering story…”

                      And I am sure you could find Malaysian Chineses in Australia, Britain and the United States who would make the same claim about Malaysia.

                      Re:”One thing I notice though, they are not as “clever” as their Malaysian chinese/indian counterpart in adding spices to their suffering story… you know la…”

                      So in other words, you do admit that there is discrimination but not the kind of exaggerations I was dismissive off.

                    2. There are many Singapore Malays who have migrated overseas because they are being marginilized by the Chinese government in Singapore. I know many of them here in the US. Whereas in Malaysia, which race makes up the top 10 richest persons? Apartheid? Segregated? Second class citizens?

                    3. Conrad,

                      re: “Actually I think the original comparison was the comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia.”

                      If that is the case then you might want to re – read Jampi’s comment that you have replied to..here it is:”But comparing the Malaysian Malays to the Singaporean Malays, it is quite self-evident “.

                      Can you see up there “comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia”? Nill…Yilek…

                      I’ll give you a benefit of doubt that you were not intentionally or deliberately misconstrued what Jampi’s has said. Next time, take your time to read those comment that you want to reply…

                      re: “This is exactly my point. Compare the minorities in ethnic majoritarian rule.”….in response to my “No…to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule.”

                      Now my benefit of doubt is getting more shaky :) …..in case you are having one of those memory lapse…here is what you have wrote: “It would have been for more interesting for you to make the argument of the progress of the Singaporean Malays with regards to the Malay community here and attempt to understand how minorities thrive in ethnic majoritarian rule.”

                      I note your last sentence “and attempt to understand how minorities thrive in ethnic majoritarian rule.”

                      It seems like you and I have been talking in different languages..?

                      re: “So in other words, you do admit that there is discrimination but not the kind of exaggerations I was dismissive off.”

                      I have never said that the non Malays has not “suffered”. For that matter do you think that the Malay are all happy over there? No suffering? Why do you think I ended up here not back there in Malaysia..? It is discrimination of Malays against Malay and worse still to the one that the Malay nowadays regarded as the “black sheep” in Malaysia (Yeah you know what race I am talking about..the chinese). This story should be for another page another time…

                      There is almost impossible to find any ethnic minority that has no feeling of “suffering” in any countries with ethnic majority…I think that is given…

                      But the extent of how you (the nons in Malaysia) potray your suffering to me has largely been hyped and influenced by the DAP campaign and propaganda.

                2. Jampi,

                  “I choose number of billionares as a metric to measure success of a community.”

                  I afraid this may not be an accurate measurement tool. Take the local Indian community as an example. We have Indian billionaires like Ananda, Tony Fernandes, Gnalingam and AK Nathan. But majority of the Indians are still poor. I think the notion of “number of billionares as a metric to measure the personal/individual success” is more accurate.

            2. Jampi,

              “I said that if Singapore is an example to be learnt from, then you can expect the Malaysian Malays to suffer. ”

              I suppose if we do a general comparison between the Malays of Singapore and the Malays of Malaysia, the former is very much ahead of the latter in terms of average income, standard of education, non-reliance of government assistance etc. The Singaporean Malays are able to compete in international arenas.

              1. Malaysian2020,

                I like it that you manage to slip this “The Singaporean Malays are able to compete in international arenas”.
                I wonder who this Singaporean Malay is? Why would you put a specific “Singapore Malay”? do you mean by extension that the Malaysian Malay then cant compete internationally?

                Looking at average income would be clearly misleading as well.

                What is the point of getting three time more than Malaysian Malay average when you live in pigeon hole, you cant even afford to own a car? and the cost of living is three times that of Malaysia.

                You see it is all RELATIVE…

                And measures of $$$ is not everything….Muslim like mine would also take Islam into consideration…Azan pun tak boleh ma…..and despite BM being one of the official language of Singapore…it is at the brink of extinction…there are many Singaporean blog that you can read which raised this concern…

                By the way, the suicidal rate in Singapore is more than three times than in Malaysia….in Singapore its average 3.54 per 100,000 and it is only 1.3 per 100,000 average in Malaysia…

                What does that tell you? I let you figure that out yourself.

                Again I concur with Jampi that we must look in RELATIVE terms.

                1. “The Singaporean Malays are able to compete in international arenas”. I wonder who this Singaporean Malay is?

                  Still remember the owner of the company that supplied the infamous indelible ink and of all the stationary to the SPR of Malaysia? [YouTube]

                  “do you mean by extension that the Malaysian Malay then cant compete internationally?”

                  Well, the Malaysian Malay cannot even compete in Malaysia, losing in a big way to the mamak bumiputeras, how do you expect him to compete internationally? Want to give us names of some who could?

                  Still don’t get it, do you? When are Malaysian Malays going to wake up?

        2. Bringing in Cina Tanah Besar China to counter balance pertumbuhan penduduk Singapura natives is definitely not a good sign to the Tanah Melayu natives!

            1. In October 2008, the dysfunctional meritocratic pyramid of yes men with the smartest fellow on top lost US$108 Billions (RM350 Billions) of Singapore citizens Trust money on Wall Street. Vide. Channelasia. Lee Kuan Yew November 2008. All Singaporean Blogs. Financial Times London. Gillian Tett April 2010. The Star. Seah Chiang Nee Column’
              In 2013, 2 Singaporean Ministers announced that future promotions etc will not be based on academic qualifications alone but also on hidden talents. They certainly are efficient in correcting mistakes.

          1. No singapore is not practising meritocracy completely, just as the US/Britain is not practising democracy completely. I don’t think you can practice any form of government in absolute terms. But , Shamsul, would you agree that Singapore is practising meritocracy to a larger extent than Malaysia? I would.

            1. Jampi,

              re: “would you agree that Singapore is practising meritocracy to a larger extent than Malaysia? I would”

              I think Its hard and difficult to say….

              The thing is Malaysia has this formal unmeritocracy way in doing some of its “business” i.e. the affirmative action…so it is easy to say that Malaysia dont practice meritocracy…

              For the Singaporean or even in the Malaysian Private Sector….They may not have formal “unmeritocracy” way but in terms of implementation its actually anything but meritocracy…

              How can it be a meritocracy when it pays more just because you have certain skin colour, eventhough you dont know what the job really is and you have to be taught by someone who is in a lower paid and position wise to actually do the job. And I guess by coincident, that lower paid person who knows how to do the job happen to be of a person from a different skin colour…

            2. Oh one more thing…with regard to meritocracy…

              This one here I think suffered by both Malaysia and Singapore…

              The problem of preferring the white/foreigners over the local talent even though the local has actually more merit…This is definitely not meritocracy way…

              For some reason I just think that both chinese and Malay has acute inferiority complex!

              1. Re. : “The problem of preferring the white/foreigners over the local talent even though the local has actually more merit…This is definitely not meritocracy way…”

                In Singapore Malaysian and other Asian are paid as locals while the Mat Salleh are being paid as expat. While Pinoy is hardly recognized as professional class.

              2. http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201307230046-0022926

                Watch this episode of the Stream entitled “Are we all racists?” on the Al-Jazeera site. The discussion is quite illuminating. Subconscious bias and prejudice is a common phenomenon among all human beings.

                The post-show discussion, which is only shown online, has a suggestion that from one of the panelist, Tim Wise. He suggests before employers make decisions they should be asked to read about ‘implicit bias’, a thought process that causes most people to make knee-jerk judgements based on race, gender, class, age etc…

                I am going to get his book.

                1. Everyone has this racist tendency…it may be just small or big…no one can deny that…

                  I just hope that whatever it is, we can use our “brain” to control this bad tendency…and make the right decision…

                  We shouldn’t condone inequality or injustice…

    3. LKS is adept on the Sun Tzu Art of War… Look East when you want to attack West… There is No Chinese Tsunami No Chinese Dilemma, in actual fact there is and we will catch you off guard in the next PRU and with better strategies to winover PutraJaya… BN leaders? Still dreaming of winning the hearts of the Chinese…

    4. Read the LKS quotation in reverse… Replace “have never been”
      with “have always been”… Replace “there is no attempt”…with “there are plenty of attempts”…. to oust the political power of the Malays.

      This rhetoric started with the PAP (when it was in Malaysia) which made it very clear that it wanted to replace the MCA. Remember what LKY said?…

      The ultimate aim is to have a Chinese as the Prime Minister… in 50 years’ time (which is about now).

      DAP is the worthy replacement of PAP.

      Always read whatever LKS and LGE said in reverse…

      1. re: “Always read whatever LKS and LGE said in reverse…”

        Good idea. I’ll KIV and try out.

  8. Thanks to GE13 the majority Malays are not in the Dilemma anymore. We know who we will vote come GE14.

    Everyday I met a Malay that have stronger sentiment than before. I’m talking about urban voters. Those who dun care about politics or couldnt care less about politics before this have aready set their mind on what shud be done in GE14.

    Its not surprising but in a good way I would like to thank all the majority Chinese that voted for oppo in GE13 for this realisation … and in the end I still agree what Tun M said .. a Chinese Dilemma …!

    But who cares anyway ….

    Setem,

    YES …. lobby hard that UMNO should take over MP constituency since MCA had lost it …

    1. Imran,

      It is actually Najib’s dilemma, not Malay dilemma. So, you are spot on.

      Najib as i said earlier has a penchant of underestimating the very supporting Malay community in favour of Chinese community.

      He is in this predicament simply because he has been taking lightly all genuine advices from all Umat Nabi Muhammad SAW. Instead he places importance on consultants whom everyone suspects.

      As for the Chinese, so sure that they would take over from BN( or rather from UMNO) that they ignored the reality on the ground. Of course, good for nothing Anwar lied to them.

      What is it with Najib that he simply unable to see reality. that no matter what goodies he gives to chinese, they would not support BN anymore. simply because BN is led by UMNO.

      For a Malay party to overlord political arena is already a sin. A “good” Malay party must be like PAS that ever willing to sell even Islam in order to please its master, DAP.

  9. The Chinese must go underground, wage a kind of warfare just like Chin Peng did during the emergency. Now the Chinese have a double assault, through the cyber war, with which they have already the red bean army and now they fight on the conventional warfare. Kit Siang and his son will go underground take up arms. Go to the jungles of Pahang, somewhere near Bentong to set up a regiment there.

    Wage war and organize sabotage to KLIA, PutraJaya, the PETRONAS Twin Tower, the Penang Bridge, the Parliament bldg., the Angkasapuri building, the National Monument, Also all the water and power generation facilities and also the Ports esp the PKFTZ, and the MRT lines.

    Go to Spore and China for arms and military support.

    Master cells to be formed in all DAP and PKR controlled constituency.

    Don’t get PAS because like Lee Kuan Yew, he doesn’t trust the Malay in handling planes as well as arms.

    When the Malays are finally defeated they can appoint their own emperor and declare a Chinese Republic of MaCiland with a merger with Spore.

    1. re: “Master cells to be formed in all DAP and PKR controlled constituency.”

      Immediately after the GE13, the DAP constituencies started recruiting members for their Pasukan Peronda Sukarela.

      1. Are they wearing brown uniform? I think I saw one or two of them a couple of time in B Bintang area.

          1. Few of them came around my area, “Community” something written on their vests on motorbikes.. eve of Ramadan..

            Not locals from this area as their faces are not familiar (been living here for the last 25years so we sorta know everyone of us here). Gives us that creepy feeling.

            Are these people legally registered under some kind of Organization? Where can we get confirmation from?

            1. In Penang they’re legal and under the wings of the state exco (that was before the recent general election). I’m presuming status quo post-GE13.

            2. That’s the root problem when you have strangers whose authentication and credentials you are not confident about, claiming to be communal vigilantes.

              Isn’t it time for our young men from Malaysia’s Khidmat Negara program to act as Vigilante Corps (VC) under the PDRM’s supervision in their own residential districts? For example, they should be liable for 1 year of part-time VC service after their Khidmat Negara basic training.

              At present what the RELA is doing is insufficient to police and assist our neighbourhoods on a day-to-day basis. The VC should be a-political in objective and function.

    2. [Quote: The Chinese must go underground, wage a kind of warfare….. Wage war and organize sabotage to KLIA, PutraJaya, the PETRONAS Twin Tower, the Penang Bridge, the Parliament bldg., the Angkasapuri building, the National Monument,..]

      Geez, you got the wrong intel.

      The invasion had already begun. A weekend surveillance trip to Masjid Jamek, Chinatown and Jln Tunku Abdul Rahman will be most enlightening if you wish to see these ‘foreign invaders’ from Indonesia, Bangladesh and Myanmar…

      1. And, I take it you find these ‘foreign invaders’ disgusting?

        Please enlighten yourself. There are 3.5 million foreign workers in Malaysia. Those brown people you mention are probably the coolies who will be building the next condo you and I will buy.

        Or would you prefer those foreign workers from a country like China ? Of course the government won’t allow that because it will cause an imbalance in the socio-political structure of Malaysia. Better for the government to get from Muslim countries than from China, and maintain the status quo.

        Singapore too made the decision. They took their labor from China because of the belief they Mainland Chinese would be compatible with the local Singaporeans. Now they are paying the price. Local Singaporeans are complaining about the rudeness of Mainland Chinese and their aggressiveness and competitive nature. The Singapore chinese are being sidelined by the Mainland Chinese.

        Now which country would you get your manpower from?

        1. Jampi

          [Quote: And, I take it you find these ‘foreign invaders’ disgusting? ]

          Do you? I don’t.

          Am merely pointing out the reality where Chinatown and Twin Towers are bursting with Indonesians with easy pathway to citizenship while ironically Asri (post #33) was talking about an invasion by Malaysian born Chinese.

          I am not here to debate about manpower issues. Though I find I have legit concerns about allegations of foreign workers aspiring to be citizens through illegal means.

          http://my.news.yahoo.com/stunned-indonesian-ic-confiscated-rci-083655189.html

          http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/02/01/I-got-Malaysian-IC-after-six-years-says-Indonesian-guard.aspx

          1. Re, “Though I find I have legit concerns about allegations of foreign workers aspiring to be citizens through illegal means.”

            I guess it reflects the same influx of illegal Malaysian in the UK and OZ that has tarnished Malaysia good name; of which at one time the UK had restricted the Visa policy towards Malaysian.

            1. Everybody around the expire to be in greener pasture so much so this happens:

            They had hoped that by renouncing their Malaysian citizenship, they would qualify for a British passport.

            Instead, some now find themselves doing menial jobs far beneath their qualifications as they are classed as illegal migrants.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/6316612/Malaysians-left-stateless-in-UK-after-passport-gamble-backfires.html

            2. There is also a call to probe about 50K Chinese Citizen…

            “Tahun 2007, Perdana Menteri pada waktu itu, Abdullah Badawi menyatakan lehairan berhubung kehilangan 50, 000 rakyat China yang datang ke negara ini dengan menggunakan pas lawatan sosial.”

            http://theflyingkick.blogspot.com/2013/05/pendatang-rakyat-china-yang-di-pulau.html

            Shouldn’t this be your concern too?

            1. Lol

              [Quote: Shouldn’t this be your concern too?]

              I voiced my concern about the influx of illegals getting citizenship through illegal means. Shouldn’t my definition of ‘illegals’ encompassed ALL illegals, from the Indon worker at the site to the hot chick (i assumed) somebody met on the lift?

              Chinese illegals won’t have the bin or bt on their fake papers. Indons, mostly Muslims, as Jampi pointed out will automatically reap bumi privileges. (If they are successful in obtaining MyKad)

              Just pointing out. I know you pride yourselves as generous people.

              While at it, Chinese illegals are not here to stay. Most are using fake Malaysian passport for easier entry to other more, let’s say lucrative countries with good currency rates. Malaysia is their stopover hub.

              In case you like to know, my friend told me these resourceful Chinese ladies are even found working in Dubai.

        2. Re. “Or would you prefer those foreign workers from a country like China ?”

          They are also here fyi but in different industry. Once I was the elevator, I bumped into a Chinese girl talking to her Daddy that doesn’t look like her daddy by the tone of their conversation.

          Re. “Singapore too made the decision. They took their labor from China because…”

          Not just labour but also new citizen for the purpose of Gerrymandering. Their population increase was so steep by 500K during 2007 to 2010 and prior to the last General Election. In the next 7 years they are expecting the population to increase by another 1.6 million with yearly increase of 20k of New Citizen.

            1. lol

              Mainland Chinese, mostly high ranking officials are snapping up high end Singapore properties on the pretext of sending their offsprings there for education while in reality the Chinese are laundering their ill gotten gains from their own country.

              1. That is not new news. Singapore and Hong Kong being the Asia Financial Centers have become the largest money laundering destination unknowingly by most.

                These includes Malaysians who have bank account in SG, for tax evasion purpose.

              2. “Mainland Chinese, mostly high ranking officials are snapping up high end Singapore properties”

                They are just investors but the New Citizen are just commoners, professionals or students who were offered citizenship.

                When was the last time you MRT in SG?
                Haven’t you heard the local SG complain about them for several years now?

                http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/05/24/sg-netizen-files-police-report-against-new-citizen-li-yeming/

                “On 22/05/2013 I went to this forum http://www.sgwritings.com/ as usual to browse the contents, and came across a thread [ LINK ], the content of this thread is the threadstarter posted a picture which was supposedly taken onboard SMRT Bus 173, and the picture shows a set of writing written in black marker ink on a part of the bus saying “China people are bad and despicable”.

                A lot of people had since replied to this thread and most of them were discussing about how Singaporeans are biased against China citizens. I am afraid that this would spark hatred between Singaporeans and China citizens, and in turn escalate into something ugly.”

        3. “The Singapore chinese are being sidelined by the Mainland Chinese”.

          At least the Chinese have woken up and they are voicing their concerns.

          Read “The Malaysian Malays are being sidelined by the mamak bumiputeras who betrayed their trust used them to enrich themselves and at the same time label the Malays ‘LAZY and STUPID’ “.

          When are Malays going to wake up and realize the real evil behind their dilemma?

    3. The ones’ FAR more likely to do the sabotaging will be those “serumpun” pirates of the Sulu Sultan that were welcomed into Sabah to skew the voting population.

    1. My SIL been working in Penang for the last 25years, her family being hardcore PAS supporter finally realizes what their “UBAH” calls are all about.

      This GE14 her whole family will definitely UBAH >>> and to change and UBAH their votes for BN!

      Nanti senang2 I cerita why they decided to finally follow seruan “UBAH” Eng Guan.

      1. She is trying to get 2 properties for her kids there (range RM350-RM500) Alas was not able to get even a unit! When she sniffed around, was made to understand most of these new properties are being snapped away by foreigners… satu perubahan mendadak yang telah membuka mata dia!

        1. you dunno meh? That’s how they drive the Malay and Indian out of the Island. It is a form gerrymandering by increasing their ethnic population in the constituency. Look at Kg. Buah Pala for example, although the minority Indian population is still there after redevelopment, there is also an increase on the number of CINA DAP in the same area.

          Lembah Pantai is another example, that is how Nurulizah won the constituency with a mere 1k plus votes. In the next 5 years with new property development, the number of CINA DAP voters will increase the area but the Malay will remain.

          With that trend, BN can forget about Penang altogether, but there is still hope for Selangor where I believe that majority of Malays who supported PAS and PKR in PRU13 will swing their votes after the CINA DAP Tsunami. That’s why DAPster going all out with their MALAY-MUSLIM-CENTRIC act now.

          1. JB and areas facing Singapore westward is staring at the same prospect. Property prices sky-rocket in 2013. Not many Bumiputeras have the means to buy property in these areas anymore. They are being squeezed out to periphery, population wise.

            Gelang Patah have fallen – JB is next.

        2. Most newly built properties in Penang are snapped up by some rich folks who can buy units in bulk (5, 10, 20 units) at one go well before launch. They then will try to sell it out to secondary market people like your hapless SIL at 2 figures percentage profit. These unfortunate working class folks will have to undertake massive home loans to pay for those ridiculously jacked up properties. That’s how capitalism works nowadays. You’re working your butt off to pay off the elites like the banks and rich speculators. That’s also why Malaysia’s household debt is so high now. And I think Malaysia society is going to become an M-shaped society soon.

      2. Tapi bukankah nasi sudah menjadi bubur? Nak ubah jadi BN kena tunggu lagi 4 tahun 10 bulan.
        Now the wonderful people of Penang will realise the silliness of Tokong. Let us see how much business has dropped in Gurney.

        It seems like some Gurney customers deny that there is a jam.
        I told one shopkeeper. If you ask a DAPster, of course dia kata tak jam. If you ask this BN supporter and most motorists, memang ADA Jam.

  10. The screening of ‘The New Village’ is put on hold.

    Hmmm…The movie is said to promote communism, aka rogue Cina Malaysia.

      1. MCA had erected that batu untuk meningati komunis yang terkorban. And the rest is history. Chin Peng will be coming home and made Tun.

          1. I not stupid! Itu saya tau, saya pun tak cakap itu MCA punya…just me showing how organised and one way-ed some Malaysians are.

  11. what do u expect from these pork eating people…. kalau dah makanan pun kotor… dalaman diaorang pun kotor. dah beri betis nak peha. since they dont know how to appreciate malays lets show them what we can do to them now. Forget Najib n his goons.. we can do this without them.

    1. “what do u expect from these pork eating people…. kalau dah makanan pun kotor… dalaman diaorang pun kotor”

      List of nations with the highest life expectancy:

      Japan
      Switzerland
      San Marino
      Italy
      Singapore
      Iceland
      Andorra
      Australia

      …all pork eating nations…

      1. Ac-Dc

        Good to know.

        You know, I agree it is not what goes in that define a person. It is more importantly what comes out of the mouth. Even vegearian on clean food can spew hateful venom if their heart is not in the right place.

        Cheers

  12. Kahkahkah.

    Quite true as well. What must UMNO do now?

    But what Mahathir says is spot on. The deepening feeling of polarization is due to DAP incessant racial propaganda to challenge everything Malay but keeping the Chinese interest. A few days before election my random survey showed me many Malays came together not because of umno but simply because of the audacious ostentatious show of Chinese unity by DAP. The election results clearly showed how the Chinese had come together under DAP’s racial propaganda.

    Core to the DAP racial propaganda is the theme putting Malaysian first with equal rights. It has been appealing to many Chinese. But this is where many Chinese fail to realise. The Malays saw Malaysian first and fight for equality as an insincere propaganda cloaking Chinese interest. How can one put Malaysian first when one advocates separation of our youngs by race; depriving them to be together. Then one after another, malay attachment was attacked as racist but not anything Chinese. Even saying one is a malay malaysian is also racist. In order words the DAP practiced selective racism under the guise of Malaysian first. Thus we will never hear DAP condemning the Chinese as racists on a number of issues. These hypocrisy is not acceptable.

    By this bold in your face DAP approach, the Chinese thought they can win all. They forgot many of the things we achieved was through compromise. Our constitution was not based on any idealism but purely based on compromise to live together; to empathize and be sensitive of the other; and to recognise our ethnic differences and to get an optimum solution. DAP on the other hand propagated a position of confrontation without compromise. Everything must be fought tooth and nail.

    Now the Malays have reacted. Not as dumb as dAP think. PAS is reverberating as a result. The more the DAP Chinese push the agenda to the left the more the Malays move to the right. These Chinese DAP supporters should know this approach can never win PR. Do you think this Sri pristina will win more Malay hearts? Justify you will from a racial angle, those supporting UMNO will think its again another attack on anything Malay. This is not including those in PAS.

    Thus these DAP chinese supporters now need to decide. Either to proceed with the no compromise confrontation DAP method with diminishing return or adopt our old method of comprising for mutual betterment. Mahathir was right. Of course everybody else has to decide including UMNO, but the Chinese too has to decide whether they want to deepen further the social schism using the DAP way or recognise compromise as a strength and work out amicably. But I suspect these DAP Chinese are blur and arrogant. They will keep pushing the boundary thinking they own this world. Sooner or later the Malays will say enough is enough. There will be tipping point. It may just be the Allah court case. We’ll see.

    Ps: sorry for the long write.

      1. I also agreed with Ellese. Tepat sekali dan terima kasih.

        Helen, are you too, having a dilemma as far as the Hindraf’s letter to Brown is concern? Can’t wait to hear what you have got to say on it and its contents, knowing you supports Hindraf wholeheartedly?

    1. Ellese,

      The Malays have reacted no doubt about it. The fact that Kedah falls to UMNO and Kelantan with increased UMNO’s seats are telling factor.

      They are uncomfortable with PAS submission to DAP. But of course PAS refuses to accept reality. Mohd Sabu the jester still cries out saying “imported Siamese” resulted in him losing Pendang.

      In the first place, Mohd sabu also lost in 2004 and 2008. People grow up. Joke aside, substance is still valued. Just because people are laughing at your “ceramah” does not mean people trust you.

      The message is subtle. We have had enough of your ceramah that does not bring any benefit except for “derma kutipan PAS”.

      Which bring me to this point. That the political arena is a battle between DAP that holds chinese votes against UMNO that has the lion share of malay votes.

      And it is fast becoming Malay-Chinese battle for political supremacy.

      Chinese have options too. Choose between time tested political formula of UMNO-MCA relationship OR political supremacy(meaning controlling politics) through DAP.

      Malays too have choices. Still supporting MCA for the saker of nostalgia and semblance of political harmony OR no need to think about Chinese anymore. A fter all, UMNO on its own forms the government. Had not for its decision not to enter Sarawak, UMNO for its own would have more than half of seats in Parliament.

      Other parties like PAS and PKR are submitting to DAP. In BN tioo, MCA , Gerakan, MIC are all dependant on UMNO to survive. Let us get real here.

      HELEN,

      You may want to know that actually vast majority of Malays do not trust the Chinese anymore.

      1. re: “HELEN, You may want to know that actually vast majority of Malays do not trust the Chinese anymore.”

        Ingatkan dengan si evangelista begitu galak mengenakan tudung, ikut sama berpuasa dan sekali dengan ucapan ‘Insya Allah’ yang tak lekang dari bibir, maka orang Melayu makin teruja dengan keterampilan ‘soleh’ bukan kepalang puak Firster-DAP tu.

          1. Re. “Kan itu juga a form of “corruption”

            Taklah, to them that is business decision but if the UMNO/BN does it baru dikira Corruption.

            1. Ikut mcam tu la DSN…

              CNY eve next year, anjurkan makan besar2an, jamuan best2 termasuk lobster, abalone, mushrooms fresh from Taiwan, mackerel flown direct from Canada dan panggang rusa (ganti Bak), fresh grape juices (ganti wine) buat kat Gelang Patah.

              No, adakan satu Malaysia! Kalau tak dapat rasa suasana kefamilian, for each family reserve them a table each.

              Kita pun perlu ikut seruan “UBAH”. Okay tak Helen macam tu?

            2. Pre- GE 13, I quite like the DAP’s slogan “Malaysian Malaysia”. Post GE 13 after Chinese tsunami, I see myself as a Malay Muslim first and a Malaysian second.

        1. Helen,

          Some morons are of course are “fooled” by their appearances.

          But I also notice sentiments in Malay community. It is not as shocking as “Tsunami cina” but nevertheless, it is deemed significant too.

          As Chinese leans towards DAP, Malays react by leaning towards the only political party whom they think is significant enough to handle DAP; UMNO.

          Not out of love to UMNO. But rather the choices for Malays are quite limited. With PAS losing credential and submitting to DAP, the natural choice would be UMNO.

          I do not have the statistics. But i believe that that resulted in UMNO capturing Kedah, making inroad in Kelantan. No doubt UMNO suffers too in Selangor as an example. but how do we explain it manages to recapture Balik Pulau, Baling, Pendang , Titiwangsa.

          Lembah Pantai is a case where UMNO won the Malay votes but lost almost completely the Chinese votes. The same stories repeated in Ampang and DUN like Bukit antarabangsa.

          UMNO’s major problem is simply it takes easy way when handling criticisms, slandering.

    2. Why do you blame the Chinese for the SK Pristina affair which was leaked to the internet by an Indian woman, and the Allah court case which was brought to court by Rev. Pakiam and Jill Lawrence (East Malaysian)?

      Anything to blame the Chinese for, eh? Perhaps if you get diarrhoea from bad Pasar Ramadhan food you will accuse secret Chinese agents of poisoning the food also.

      1. Exactly. Establishment partisans go on about blaming UMNO for everything while their own dogma consists of blaming the Chinese for everything.

        I found it hilarious that KJ took umbrage at LKS’s partisan bias in a piece defending UMNO Youth and UTUSAN Malaysia wrt the screening of New Village.

      2. Ac-DC,

        Perhaps you choose to forget that Guan Eng and tweeter queen good for nothing Hannah used the incident to whip anti Malay attitude.

        As for “allah”, Guan eng stirred the confrontation.

        No need to be paranoid.

        “tak kan kena kritik melenting tak tentu hala. ”

        And do you have to insult pasar ramadhan to get at me. Do you like to be insulted.

        How about if I say “Kalau dah suka makan babi jadi ikut perangai babi juga le”.

        Where it will end.

        Jadi jagalah mulut tu sikit.

        1. Shamsul, please search “keracunan bazar Ramadhan” and “cirit-birit bazar Ramadhan” on Google and see the many incidents that happen. So far, I have been lucky (I only visit the bazaars once in a while) but there are a lot of people who are not.

          Mentioning the fact that SOME of the traders are selling unclean or expired food is not insulting the month of Ramadhan itself.

      3. Re. “Perhaps if you get diarrhoea from bad Pasar Ramadhan food you will accuse secret Chinese agents of poisoning the food also.”

        Don’t you have a big mirror at home sweetie?

  13. All this while, ‘quality over quantity’ being the maxim adopted by chinese. But GE13 showed that dap managed to conquer both for chinese, especially politic, by ‘instilling hatred n anger of chinese towards bn’.

    Accoding to SYA, President of Malaysian Youth Rights Movement – political alliance between dap n pas just like alliance of british-communist. They put aside their incompatible politic ideologies just to get power n capture putrajaya!! But the dilemma is they’ve reached maximum…. where eventually they will mutually backfired.

    >> It’s a usual thing to have protagonists n antagonists, but the bottom line is, we should avoid being superficial and ungrateful.

    It will b a faux pass to wake up the next morning n realise what we did yesterday was totally wrong!!

  14. Mari memantau OKM

    OKM is so excited. Raya is coming!

    Ong Kian Ming ‏@imokman 8h 10 days to Hari Raya…
    Ong Kian Ming ‏@imokman 8h Pagi kawan2, selamat bersahur!

    OKM Lucky boy
    Ong Kian Ming ‏@imokman 27 Jul @nishreenali take a cold shower.

    OKM bodek KJ
    Ong Kian Ming ‏@imokman 1h @tristupe agree that @khairykj is a progressive leader, was hoping that his other UMNO Youth leaders would follow his lead.

    1. “OKM bodek KJ
      Ong Kian Ming ‏@imokman 1h @tristupe agree that @khairykj is a progressive leader, was hoping that his other UMNO Youth leaders would follow his lead.”

      Questions:

      1. Will Chinese swing back their votes due to KJ factor?
      2. Is this why KJ roped in Regina Lee@double agent?
      3. What is Regina Lee’s Role in this equation?
      4. What is KJ trying to prove?
      5. What is KJ’s motive above all this?

      Background scenarion about KJ:

      1. Once upon a time his ambition was to be PM by/or before 40 yo.
      2. Majority of UMNO members reject him?
      3. I personally feel (and maybe many others) that he is another Anwar Ibrahim in the making based on the last track record under his FIL’s wing. Plus he is the office Boy who personally delivered Anwar Ibrahim’s passport when the later was released from Sg. Buloh.
      4. There is a talk around town (based on one blog reporting actually) saying that the grassroots have started talking about kicking 3 politicians out i.e KJ and H2O are 2 of them in the next UMNO general assembly.

        1. This is the way the old man works – all good and/or smart people are a hindrance to their progress in UMNO for their cronies ( and sons ) and need to be removed at all cost.

          Go on, kick out all the real Malays as well and install the mamak bumiputeras so that they can hijack your rights further to enrich their cronies and then call Malays “LAZY and STUPID”.

          It will become United Mamak Nation Organisation soon.

  15. TDM addressed TCL as Sir throughout the article instead of Tun, seems kind of out of place (I’m aware TCL was knighted). Not exactly nit-picking, but MCA’s own website address TCL as Tun Tan Cheng Lock.

    1. Sharp of you to have noticed. It jarred on me as well that Dr M throughout omitted to mention Tan’s Tunship but preferred to state his British knighthood.

      Additionally, the MCA founder is known as Tan Cheng Lock but Dr M called him Cheng Lock Tan.

  16. i hope malaysian particularly chinese would continue to vote pr until the goal of 2 party system is in sight.

    1. HY,

      I think you meant ‘until the goal of DAP (read: ‘Chinese’) to take control Putrajaya is in sight’. Right?

      BTW, what is PR? It is not even a legal entity as it is not registered with RoS. And another thing, between DAP/PKR/PAS which is the most dominant party? PKR existed mainly to further Anwar’s political agenda and it is increasingly losing support from the Malays and I think from the nons as well. As for PAS, the Kuala Besut by-election result speaks for itself.

      1. “I think you meant ‘until the goal of DAP (read: ‘Chinese’) to take control Putrajaya is in sight’. Right? ”

        Who are they kidding?

        1. gosh, if people like you could only debate what i said, rather than what you hoped i said, that would be grand. too much to ask, I guess.

    2. Rubbish ! You want the Malaysian Chinese to suffer. Troublemaker ! Think like a Chinese man.

      1. Why would HY’s suggestion in having a check and balance political system in Malaysia a bad thing?

        Rather, why would throwing 100% support behind UMNO would translate to better accountability and less corruption?

        Please enlighten.

        1. HH. We now have 90% support from the Chinese for DAP. This does not make an iota of difference. They might as well throw full support for the BN and be represented in the Cabinet. I do not buy the line for the Chinese to make friends with the Malays – Vote DAP. This is blatant misrepresentation as we can see every day.

          1. AK47

            I don’t quite grasp your implication. :)

            [Quote: We now have 90% support from the Chinese for DAP. This does not make an iota of difference. They might as well throw full support for the BN and be represented in the Cabinet.]

            If we were to be simplistic, prior to GE13, the Chinese were represented by MCA for more than half a century in cabinet right until post GE13. So yes, we did have our ‘representation.’

            If one were to define having ‘representation’ meant someone of the same skin color sitting pretty on the cabinet, shouldering the welfare of his entire race, then I guess the Chinese ought to be happy. That is, if the Chinese are willing to sacrifice substance for mere window dressing in having someone of the same race in the cabinet.

            THe CHinese view DAP in Pakatan as having a more equal say than MCA in BN.

            Quote: [ I do not buy the line for the Chinese to make friends with the Malays – Vote DAP.]

            I don’t get this line at all. All I can say is, Chinese voted for DAP because they feel DAP can represent them better than MCA.

            Nobody voted DAP just to spite the Malays.

            Cheers

            1. OOps, pls edit this line…

              ….If one were to define having ‘representation’ meant someone of the same skin color sitting pretty on the cabinet, “seen” shouldering the welfare of his entire race, then I guess the Chinese ought to be happy.

            2. HH. OK. How are you going to get the Chinese represented anywhere if the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP is always in the Oppostion, a position they were in for 47 long years ? They have done it before and know what the future will be for them except those Chinese who supported them – that 90% ! Politics should not be based on emotions BUT ONLY REALITY. Sorry to say, politics is OPPORTUNISTIC.

              1. I honestly I think the Chinese, the Malaysian Chinese DO NOT BEHAVE LIKE CHINESE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. What a pity ! Please tell me which Chinese in the World like to fight on behalf of others. Pray tell me. None except those in Malaysia.

                1. Well, I am fighting for Malaysian Malays to be wake up and be smarter in the name of Allah the Almighty and not be duped by the mamak bumiputeras who hijacked their rights and after getting the benefits, call the Malays “LAZY and STUPID”.

      2. many chinese man think like luxun and we treasure backbone, unlike the ama cam uni anglophile that know only lick bone spit out by their master. yr dad never teach u elementary chinese thought like suffer is better than lick bone? y built chinese school when son dun even know simple chinese way of life? for fame n brag kah? like son, like father?

        1. HY. Jealoust ah ? You lazy bone with the big big mouth. You got a brain and waste it. You only got 100 years to laze around. Remember this. This is what some of you Chinese Malaysian Chinese who are DE-TRIBALIZED are good for – talking rubbish and argumentative. What have you contributed to our beloved Malaysia with your Big Mouth. Ask yourself !

          1. We can all see the characteristics of some Malaysian Chinese like HY jealous, narrow-minded, personal attacks on others meritocratic achievements, etc. The characteristics of a hollow person without cultural ballast. THESE ARE WHAT CAUSE THE PROBLEM OF THE MALAYSIAN CHINESE TODAY. Look Chinese, but hollow inside.

    3. We already have a two-party system in the House.

      As urbanisation increases, we will see more votes for the Opposition.

    4. HY. Please do not talk rubbish with a majority of 60% Malays facing your big mouth. Please do not talk without responsibility and consideration for innocents.

  17. Reply mdsabu post #64

    “If that is the case then you might want to re – read Jampi’s comment that you have replied to..here it is:…..”

    Yup that is why it is a hasty argument. Once you dig deeper into the comparison it is not self evident.

    Re: “It seems like you and I have been talking in different languages..?”

    I have no idea what you are going on about because what I said and what you said are more or less the same thing. Honestly, is there a point to this exchange beyond you attempting to trap me in some kind of rhetorical trap ?

    Do you agree that the more interesting question is a minority thriving (or not) under majoritarian ethnic rule?

    Re: “I have never said that the non Malays has not “suffered….”
    I would not know. All your time is spent blaming the Chinese and promoting the notion of victimhood amongst the minority communities in this country.

    I have no idea what you mean about Malay on Malay discrimination ? I know that UMNO has disenfranchised a certain section of the Malay community, hence my class war narrative.

    I know that the some rules apply to a certain class of Malays and not UMNOputras. I know that some religious edits apply to some class of Malays but not UMNOputras but I have no idea what you mean by Malay on Malay discrimination beyond partisan cries of Malays abandoning UMNO and being proxies for the Chinese.

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt so you could explain yourself. If you want to.

    Re: “But the extent of how you (the nons in Malaysia) potray your suffering to me has largely been hyped and influenced by the DAP campaign and propaganda”

    Which was exactly the point I was making and btw agreeing with you.
    I would add that the Malays too exaggerate their “suffering” as seen by the rhetoric of former PM Mahathir with the goal of manipulating the UMNO voting demographic.

    1. Conrad,

      I beg to differ.

      “….the former PM with the goal of manipulating….”. Nope. He did not manipulate the UMNO voting demographic. Tun just gave his piece of mind. And his opinion is highly rated especially among Malays.

      No doubt Tun is hated for his frankness. Western leaders and western media do not like him. The same goes with many Malaysians.

      For Tun has the ability to be sharp, witty and telling point blank to the face without being rude

      But he is respected. Many of his thinking eventually turns out the be truth. Ever remember what Tun said on abolition of ISA and strings of laws attached to it. No less than Dr Zahid said that rising of shooting cases is attributed to release of hardcore criminals from detention.

      Anyone remember on Tun’s gloomy prediction on Malay-Chinese relationship? Short of saying it out loud, Malays already feel that genuine relationship is simply impossible as cHinese maintains a hostile attitude towards Malays.

      TUN retired at the height of his popularity. Despite insult that DAP often throws at him, Tun never used his position to put his son as MB of kedah. When will Kit siang retire? He has the irritating habit of calling other to retires when he himself has been there since the days of Tunku,

      “…I Know some rules….”

      As if DAP is so clean. The dynastic DAP pawning Chinese interest by inciting them to clash with Malays just to perpetuate racist Lim Dynasty is OK for you?

      Who are the UMNOputra? Must be in millions. I am sure UMNOputra (the terminology to insult Malays) is better off than the “kucing kurap” treatment that DAP has on Malays.

      1. re: “He has the irritating habit of calling other to retire when he himself has been there since the days of Tunku”

        LOL and quite true what you say, actually.

      2. Shamsul,

        The former PM’s rethoric is highly respected amongs Malays who support UMNO, certainly not the Malay who support PAS or PKR. Hence his comments were aimed at the UMNO demographic. His words are always manipulative. The Malay Dilemma was one of the most manipulative text I have ever read.

        He is not hated for his frankness. I could give you a list of why some people hate him but why go over old ground. Personally I dislike him for stripping the royalty of their powers.

        Hello, Mahathir is always rude. Didn’t you see the way how he described a sexual act when talking about his former protégé not to mention that I consider his racism rude.

        What has demolishing the ISA and other such laws got to do with the crime rate ? Haven’t you been paying attention to whats been going on ? Maybe police corruption, too much emphasis on patrolling the opposition and a general attitude of indifference has resulted in a high crime rate. Even the PDRM has been caught out in manipulating the figures showing that crime is down.

        His gloomy prediction of the Sino/Malay dynamic is a talking point for UMNO supporters. If anything PR is all about the Sino/Malay dynamic but nobody wants to kawan the Indians.

        Brother, even UMNO members tell me that his son is his proxy and that he got where he did because of his father. You may think otherwise but there are many in UMNO who believe that he pulls all the strings. He is anything but retired.

        I never said that the DAP is clean. If anything on THIS VERY THREAD, I alluded to their corruption in the form of the Ngeh cousins in Perak.

        I use the term UMNOputras in the same intent as when Establishment partisans use DAPsters or what have you. Somewhere on this forum I once even defined the term.

        1. Conrad,

          As I told you, Dr Mahathir is hated so much yet respected. He is hated for daring to be frank . And unlike Najib, he could not be bothered to be popular.

          I read Malay dilemma too. I do not see any part that is manipulative He just said his opinion. And what he said is generally what the Malays feel and view things. He did mention Malays being “not articulate are often not able to present their arguments.

          What is wrong in putting royalty into proper places. as much as royalty is respected, they are not “dewa’. Do not not remember the incident that triggered Constitutional amendment?

          But he is not anti royalty.I still remember his words in Malay dilemma “…the first that comes into mind when one is talking about Malays is that vast majority of them is feudalist and wish to remain so…. REMOVE THE ROYALTY and the last vestige of old Malaya will dissapear…”

          As for his son as proxy ….Hmmmnnn. If that is the way you think, what say you Guan Eng being CM of Penang . Any reason why he bypassed Penang DAP Chairman ? surely not due to his intelligence.

          The truth is that just like any respected statement, his name carries weight. Or in crude language, Mukhriz is famous partly because his father is the former PM.

          Just like William whose grandmother is the queen of England is naturally more popular than say William whose grandmother is a retired nurse.

          But at least Dr Mahathir did not put his son into position of power during his tenure. If he really wanted to do so, who can stop the PM?

          Dr Mahathir also did not use his position to withdraw the ban on Malay dilemma. Mind you the book was still banned even he was the DPM. Do tell me where in the world that the Deputy leader’s own writing banned . He waited his turn as the PM before uplifting the ban.

          I do not know (just like you) whether he pulls any string. But I do know he is still influential. Any PM would better have DR Mahathir on his side. Never mind if Najib may not agree with DR Mahathir. But please do not have war with him the way Pak Lah tolerated Khairi’s antic.

          Which part of Dr Mahathir’s action that you deem him as rude? Did Dr Mahathir involve in some “xxx rated ” things. Did he say Najib as “satan” the way some in DAP said.

          Did he encourage people to go rampage on street? Did he spew racism everytime he opens his mouth? You know, the way Guan eng always does. Just like his good for nothing father?

          Just because DAP leaders often play racial gallery as far as anyone can remember, do not think that others are eager to follow their sordid footsteps.

          1. Shamsul,

            I don’t know if he is respected by anyone other than those who buy into his polemics, but this is not really of any importance. His tenure as PM was endorsed by the majority of Malaysians who now bitch and moan about how “evil” he is.

            I disagree. I think the Malay Dilemma is an important book because it lays the foundation in which he built his version of the “Malay” race. It is very evident that he is as contemptuous and amused by the community.

            There is nothing wrong with putting Royalty in its place but what is wrong is when defenders of the Royalty use them as a means of attacking the other communities.

            UMNO Malay partisan always say the Royal institution is under “attack” by the Non Malays (and their Malay sympathisers) but seem oblivious that the institution was weakened by UMNO.

            Shamsul, I do not think that passage you quoted means what you think it means.

            As for nepotism, you will find no arguments from me about the DAP. While I may agree with some of the policies of the Komtar Potentate and disagree with others, his elevation in the DAP is because of his old man. The fact that he is aligned with the Evangelical wing of the party bothers me tremendously.

            Mahahtir did not put his son when he was in power because he did not need him as his proxy. Now that he is retried Muhkriz is a natural choice. I am glad that you acknowledge the nepotism involved but in the long run if Muhkriz can over shadow his father like the Komtar Potentate has, I really don’t care how he got into power.

            Mahahtir did not want the book unbanned for various reasons. For years his critics where using what he said about the Malay to discredit his rhetoric which changed almost overnight. By the time the book was unbanned it really didn’t matter. Most everyone was familiar with the “juicy bits”.

            Well you may be off the opinion that Dr. M is needed but I am of the opinion that anyone who steps out of his shadow would be even more powerful. By taking control of UMNO sans Mahathir’s blessing, would send a message that there is a new strongman in town.

            Like I said I considered his description of Anwar’s alleged acts rude and in bad taste. I generally consider everything he does rude, from his hypocrisy to his passive/aggressive stance, to his memory lapses.

            Dr.M does not encourage people to go on the streets because he used to control the streets. The Non Malays who mock him now kept him in power – he himself acknowledges this – but he does threaten violence in the form of May 13 and all the other signs he points to if ever UMNO loses its grip on power.

            Shamsul, Mahahtir is all about the racial gallery. As you say, he tells it “like it is”. He says the Chinese are attempting to grab power, that the Malays will be beggars on their own land. All this is playing to the racial gallery although you may say it is just the Truth, I think otherwise.

            1. Conrad,

              “Mahathir is all about racial gallery…”

              if the person who holds the real power plays racial gallery, then he will reduce Malaysia to become what we had seen Bosnia, Rwanda…”

              But i understand the typical argument so loved by DAP. accuse others doing exactly what they are doing day in day night.

              If Dr Mahathir (Meaning UMNO meaning the government meaning the Malays) is racist, would your father Conrad be granted citizenship en bloc with one million non Ma lays in one day by mere 9 stroke of 9 pens by 9 MAlay rulers?

              It was an unprecedented scale unheard off back then. and until today still a world record. I often bring this argument to remind those who “lupa diri”( i mean people like you) to stop slandering.

              “… Chinese are attempting to grab power”.

              Yup. That is the truth. you may be fooled by blind love of DAP. But “Ini ka;lilah” is a move to incite the Chinese to reject whatever relationship with Malays(meaning UMNO) by saying that they are not fairly treated,

              For DAP, a genuine relationship with Malays must be like DAP overlording Malays. In crude language, Malays must be “sampah sarap”.

              He acknowledged Chinese contribution. He is critical, not paranoid. But to say that his government is saved by Chinese is over empahasizing the reality. The truth is that even at his best, only less than half Chinese voted for BN even after they saw carnage in Indonesia way back in 1999.

              The real reason why he managed to be the PM because his party UMNO managed to get more than half of more Malay votes even when Malays appeared to split due to Anwar’s sacking in 1998. Only people including many politicians are mistaken to believe UMNO did not get lion share of Malay votes as those againsts Mahathir seemed to be “on rampage”.

              I see nothing wrong in Dr mahathir’s thinking. Just like Kit Siang seemed so “inclined” to defend “New Village: that glorifired Communist (simply because vast majority of them was Chinese), what is wrong with Dr Mahathir’s view.

              I can accept criticism. Just like any mortal, he (Dr m) has a fair share of weaknesses. But certainly not racist. you get it wrong. The one who is racist is Kit siang.

              1. Shamsul,

                You are mistaken. Playing the racial gallery does not mean turning a country into war zone. Playing the racial gallery merely means playing to the lowest common denominator using race. Look at Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.

                Mine is not a typical DAP argument which sounds suspiciously like a typical UMNO argument. I apply the same standards to whoever I think is making racial remarks. That’s the difference between my argument and partisan rhetoric.

                I have no idea how granting citizenship means absolving UMNO (or whatever proto organization were involved) of racism in perpetuity. UMNO is a political party which you seem to conflate with the Malay community (an ethnic) group. It is an UMNO strategy to assume any attack on them as an attack on the Malay community.

                I know you bring this up but like I said you conflate race and political party. In turn I often remind people who forget that it is because of the Non Malays that the country can afford its affirmative action programs that benefit a specific ethnic group.

                I have no idea where you get that I have blind love for the DAP. I am one of the most critical posters of the DAP on this board. The headline of Iguana Eng is a perfect example of this. Either you are blind or wilfully ignoring the truth. It is most probably the latter because you insist on claiming the Chinese want to “grab power” from the Malays, when all they want to do is share power with a Malay power structures other than UMNO.

                While you may think that the DAP want to be overlords, I think the same can be applied to UMNO. I would rather take a political alliance that attempts to share power then one which claims to want to share power but always reminds its Non Malay members of their place.

                Mahathir said that the Non Malays saved him not me. I dispute your assessment that only half the Chinese voted for him. I think the MCA had the Chinese vote more or less locked down.

                I don’t dispute that UMNO was in power because the Malays were not split. I do think that the majority of Malaysians voted for UMNO/BN for their own selfish reasons, which is why I find it difficult to accept all the bitching now.

                That is your right in not seeing anything wrong with Mahahtir’s thinking as it is my right to think that he is wrong. A discussion is the arena in which we explore our views. I happen to think that Tanda Putra is racist lies masquerading as a motion picture, but like the New Village should be shown in theatres.

                You think LKS is racist. I think Mahahtir is racist. I guess we could call it even.

                1. Conrad,

                  I have no problem if DAP wins the election or seizes Putrajaya on pinciple. But the problem with DAP is that it creates imaginery enemy for Chinese;the Malay, UMNO.

                  DAP’s forte is to incite the chinese by telling lies:that they are 2nd class citizens. It naturally brings clashes head on.

                  Do remember that all incidents of accusing or abusing dark skinned Malaysian during last election is by racist youth. The racist Chinese youth.

                  Malays are not against Chinese or its legitimate interest. We are againsts slandering by DAP .

                  Majority of Malays are angry at Najib too. as he is seen “terhegeh hegeh” wooing the Chinese. But unlike Najib they are able to see life without UMNO in power.

                  Simply said, should UMNO fell, its place will be taken over by DAP. To the Malays that is equivalent to Yahudi overlording them.

                  And for that reason alone, PAS lost Kedah. For that reason alone, they blocked attempt by DAP to take over Perak.

                  “…find it difficult to accept…”

                  Not difficult to understand. DAP is racist. And Malays in general do not trust DAP. They are not doing for selfish reasons.

                  But for the sake of “anak cucu mereka”.

                  And Malays are not blaming chinese for their predicament. Many useless politicians are willing to sell Malays for political gain. Notably Anwar Ibrahim and PAS.

                  And I am not saying UMNO is fantastic. It has its fair share of weaknesses. I also bantai “Ketua UMNO Bahagian”.

                  But give when it is due. UMNO is not racist. .

                  1. Shamshul

                    Sorry to jump in. You quoted “And Malays are not blaming chinese for their predicament. ”

                    May I ask what Malay predicament are you referring to that Malays absolved the Chinese?

                    Thanks.

                    1. HH,

                      Malays are not absolving or blaming anyone or any race in particular with regards to situation faced by the community.

                      Malay community is in the mess as they for long time tolerate antics by those self appointed moral guardian (PAS) OR Anwar whose interest is only to become PM at any cost.

                      And it goes without saying Najib and UMNO has fair shares of blame. And not to forget Malays themselves too.

                      But i agree with Malay perception that Chinese( in general) not keen to mix with Malays.. i am not saying superficial conversation in office or between neighbours. That is on surface only.

                      What I am saying is DAP in quest to perpetuate Lim Dynasty incite the chinese to think that they are treated as 2nd class(meaning by Malay led government).

                      But that is not surprising.

                      “kalau namanya DAP tak menipu , tak fitnah tak sah”.

                  2. Shamsul,

                    I am glad that you think it is ok for the DAP to acquire power through legitimate means. However UMNO could be accused of creating imaginary enemies too. The fact of the matter is that you consider anyone who does not agree with UMNO as an enemy to the Malays. I do not think this is right.

                    I neither agree with the DAP’s propaganda methods nor do I agree with UMNO’s methods. Both of us could cite situations where political parties have behaved in an ill conceived manner. This is unfortunately in the nature of democracy.

                    My preferred political party even though I may disagree with certain of their core philosophies, PSM, does not engage in the behaviour of the mainstream ethnic parties.

                    I am glad that you are not against the Chinese but the question remains why is it you continue to conflate the DAP and the Chinese community ? Surely you see the polemic where the Chinese are blamed for abandoning the social contract and should be “punished” ?

                    While I agree that the more hard line elements of UMNO view Najib’s courting of the Chinese community as ineffectual, I am sure you would agree that there are some who feel that reconciliation is still possible ?

                    While we could argue as to why PAS lost Kedah and Perak, I agree with you that a significant section of the Malay community believes that they would “suffer” under PR rule – they would lose their special privileges, rights , etc.

                    While I may disagree with this reasoning and the overt racial sentiments, I will not do PR public relations job in this forum.

                    While you may think that the DAP is “racists” and I have claimed the very same thing, being racist in this country means very little when the System is set up to cater to racial preoccupations. With this in mind UMNO is also racist.

                    OR

                    We could agree that there are racists elements in BOTH parties and as concerned citizens we should point out these elements where appropriate and not indulge in hyperbole.

                    1. Conrad ,

                      I am critical, not paranoid. If I ( or more importantly UMNO) is against the Chinese, it would have been cruel to the Chinese 56 years ago.

                      What i am stressing is that Malays are reacting to Chinese. it is as simple as that. Question our rights as enshrined in the constitution and your position as citizens will too be questioned.

                      Malays due to professing islaM already understand that Allah SWT can bequeth power and “can take it away” faster than split second.

                      What Malays are saying is that DAP is slandering the Malays in order to incite the Chinese. And it is leading to physical clash. In a matter of time.

                      The truth is that DAP as a party is racist. It claims to be multi racial but caters to Lim Dynasty only. Day in day out it churns racial remark to its nemesis:UMNO.

                      Several of chinese friends asked me why some malay politicians said about highly sensitive word “pendatang’.

                      I explained to them that Malays do term ‘pendatang” as some Chinese politicians behave exactly like”pendatang’.

                      And they are not wrong. In fact it is an accurate estimation. Just look at Guan eng or kit siang.

                    2. Conrad,

                      I never said anyone not agreeble to UMNO is enemy of Malays.

                      UMNO never claims it has monopoly of wisdom like DAP or PAS. DAP self styles itself as the only guarantor of Chinese interests. PAS on the other hand , appoints itself as self appointed divine envoy.

                      What i stress is that UMNO has the lion share of Malay votes. And we are not stupid to know that continous slandering against UMNO is simply because it is the only party that stands against Lim Dynasty.

      3. SA. I respect the Tun because he safeguarded the Sovereignty, National Interest and Self-esteem of our beloved Malaysia. Here is a list of money, assets, territories etc which were lost not in War but in peacetime, mainly to Singapore.
        1. The 1962 Water Agreement with Singapore. We now pay for the free water which we give to Singapore.
        2. In 1972 when the MSA (Malaysia Singapore Airlines) broke up, all the software except the planes were given free to Singapore by 3 wise men who nearly got the sack by the late Tun Dr Ismail.
        3. The CLOB 1963-2000 was the super-Hoover to suck out money by Singapore.
        4. After 2003, for 22 years the Tun did not rush to the International Court of Justice to cede Pulau Batu Puteh to Singapore, Malaysia did. A book was written by Singaporeans to show how clever they were.
        5. 2 blocks of oil exploration assets were given to Brunei.
        6. Saddam Hussein’s 1.0 Million barrels of oil were re-arranged.
        7. TNB shares were

        1. Sorry.
          7. TNB shares and others were sold and re-purchase from Singapore.
          8. The 25 miles of steel rails rightly belong to KTM. Let us hope these were not given away free again.
          9. The Maybank bought the shares of Indonesia International Bank at a high price from Temasek and Kookmin in the same year when Pulau Batu Puteh was lost. Now the Maybank faces a multi-billion ringgit loss.

    2. “I would add that the Malays too exaggerate their “suffering” as seen by the rhetoric of former PM Mahathir with the goal of manipulating the UMNO voting demographic”.

      Conrad, he did not exaggerate. The Malays are truly suffering. But he conveniently omitted the fact he caused it all by hijacking their rights and benefited his mamak bumiputera cronies who have no qualms at labeling the Malays “LAZY and STUPID”.

      Just keep wondering when the true Malays are going to wake and realise this fact.

  18. Err…I think we are definitely talking in a different language here…

    Look at this historical chronology:

    1st example:

    1. Jampi: “But comparing the Malaysian Malays to the Singaporean Malays, it is quite self-evident that the economic progress of the Malaysian Malays *relative* to the Malaysian Chinese have outpaced the progress of the Singaporean Malays *relative* to the Singaporean Chinese.”

    2. Conrad: It is a hasty argument to make. So why make it?

    3. Mdsabu: How can comparing the progress of Malay Malaysia and Singapore in relative to their chinese counterpart be a hasty argument..?? Care to elaborate a little bit?

    4. Conrad: Actually I think the original comparison was the comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia.

    2nd example:

    1. Jampi: “But comparing the Malaysian Malays to the Singaporean Malays, it is quite self-evident that the economic progress of the Malaysian Malays *relative* to the Malaysian Chinese have outpaced the progress of the Singaporean Malays *relative* to the Singaporean Chinese.”

    2. Conrad: It would have been for more interesting for you to make the argument of the progress of the Singaporean Malays with regards to the Malay community here.

    3. Mdsabu: No…to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule..

    4. Conrad: This is exactly my point

    __________________________________________

    I think we know who set the trap and fall into his own trap….

    You are of no value to me so why would I want to trap you?

    By the way, I like your Umnoputra story telling…..Not that I care of…

    FYI I used to be a PAS supporter, in fact in all of my adult life until 2008 and I have never really like UMNO even now.

    1. Re: Ist example.

      Re 2: Jampi said it was a hasty argument to make, I was merely concuring with him. You should read the post before making a comment..

      Re 3 & 4. Ok I see the problem here…..wait no I don’t. I realize I didn’t answer your question (care to elaborate ?) but merely restated in simpler terms the comparison but what is it exactly are you accusing me off.

      Re : 2nd example

      Re:”…. to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule”

      I remind you that this falls under “Compare the minorities in ethnic majoritarian rule.” You could easily slant the discussion in the direction you are interested in and it would still be in topic.So what exactly are you disagreeing with ?

      _____________________________________________________

      I have no idea who you think “we” are ? Do you think it was jampi who set the trap or you who continues in his attempts to befuddle me with what you think is extremely dexterous word play ?

      I have no idea why you do what you do, you neither seem interested in my responses or responding to questions thrown your way.

      I know you were a former PAS supporter, you have mentioned it before and I know you don’t like the term UMNOputra but like I said, you throw out statements but don’t seem interested in a discussion, merely going around in circles.

      If you don’t like UMNO then why make a case for them ? I could understand if you were going a plague on both your houses but all you seem to do is get riled up with the Chinese.

      1. I find it amusing that you are both still analysing what I wrote. Glad to have made an impact on you.

        I bid adieu for now.

        1. I on the other hand find it amusing that mdsabu seems intent on carrying your water. As long as I have the time, amusement will continue to take me to strange places.

  19. Conrad,

    I think you are spinning so hard that you dont realize you are going circle within circle that now you accused me of going in circle?

    Re 2: “Jampi said it was a hasty argument to make, I was merely concuring with him. You should read the post before making a comment..”

    that was my point…you concur with “the hasty” then when pressed about the “hasty” you responded with “Actually I think the original comparison was the comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia.”!

    What has that got to do with “hasty”…and no need to think…go back to Jampi’s comment its definitely not “Actually I think the original comparison was the comparison between the Malays in Singapore and the Chinese in Malaysia.”

    So when you say “You should read the post before making a comment”…I guess that is probably your self reflection?

    re: 2nd example…. “So what exactly are you disagreeing with ?”

    I said “No…to me it is far more interesting to see how the Malays actually fare under the Majoritarian chinese compare to how the chinese here in Malaysia under the Majoritarian Malay rule..”

    And previously you said ” It would have been for more interesting for you to make the argument of the progress of the Singaporean Malays with regards to the Malay community here.” and suddenly…”This is exactly my point”. What the @uXX?

    I am not sure what English you subscribe to…definitely not the US,UK,Aussie, NZ or even the S.Africa.

    The above is plain and clear…you are more interested in comparing Malay Singapore to Malay Malaysia while I was saying that I prefer comparing Malay Singapore relative to the Singapore chinese in comparison to the Malay malaysian to Singapore Malaysian…

    Still cant see the discrepancies? Now I wonder why I kept going on in circle?

    re: “….you who continues in his attempts to befuddle me with what you think is extremely dexterous word play ?”

    Its not “dexterous word play”…i simply took your own word…Unless you are actually referring to ur own word as that…I am the one that is being befuddle!

    re: “if you don’t like UMNO then why make a case for them ?”

    I think this just sum up the difference between you and me…I dont “dont” make a case for someone when it is rightfully so just because “I dont like them”.

    I guess that is probably why you rarely make a case for the majority malay…because “you dont like them” eh?

    re: “but all you seem to do is get riled up with the Chinese.” yeah right…the same goes to you….you get riled with Malay?

    re: “you neither seem interested in my responses”…AGREE

  20. mdsabu,

    Who is spinning ? I asked you point blank, what are you accusing me off ? It’s a simple question.

    Re:”Re 2”, So what are you babbling on about ? That I restated the question or that you think my restatement is a mistake ?

    Re: “So when you say “You should read the post before making a comment”…I guess that is probably your self reflection?”

    Not at all. I merely mean that if you want to be pedantic, so can I.

    Re: I said “No…”/ you said ” It would ……What the @uXX?

    Yes and, you do realize that we are talking about the same thing, right ? We are just approaching it from different angles.

    Re: “I am not sure what English you subscribe to…definitely not the US,UK,Aussie, NZ or even the S.Africa.”

    At this point I think you are having trouble with Malaysian English, so you should not aim for anything beyond our borders.

    Re: “The above is plain and clear…you are more interested in comparing Malay Singapore to Malay Malaysia while I was saying that I prefer comparing Malay Singapore relative to the Singapore chinese in comparison to the Malay malaysian to Singapore Malaysian…

    Actually I am more interested comparing minorities (Malays in Singapore, Chinese in Malaysia) to majorities (Malays in Malaysia, Chinese in Singapore), hence minorities in ethnic majorities.

    Re: “Still cant see the discrepancies? Now I wonder why I kept going on in circle?”

    I don’t see the discrepancies because perhaps you don’t handle nuance very well or maybe just maybe, you think going around in circles is a better form of communication than articulating your points.

    Re: Its not “dexterous word play”…i simply took your own word…Unless you are actually referring to ur own word as that…I am the one that is being befuddle!”

    Merely repeating my words without understanding the context and ignoring my questions is an attempt at dexterous word play not very good word play but there you go.

    Re: “I think this just sum up the difference between you and me…I dont “dont” make a case for someone when it is rightfully so just because “I dont like them”.

    What does this even mean ? You ejaculate UMNO talking points all the time and the only reason why I brought it up was because you said you didn’t even like UMNO. What case are you trying to make now, which you think points to a difference between you and me ?

    Re: “I guess that is probably why you rarely make a case for the majority malay…because “you dont like them” eh?”

    OK, seriously, what the hell are you on? Maybe I should take some to better understand you. What does this even mean ?

    Re: “but all you seem to do is get riled up with the Chinese.” yeah right…the same goes to you….you get riled with Malay?

    No. I don’t get riled up by the Malays. I get riled up by UMNO. I get riled up when you get riled up about the Chinese. I get riled up by the hypocrisy of the Komtar Potentate and Ibrahim Ali , the Evangelis , the racists, bigots, hacks and charlatans.

    In other words I never get riled up by the Malays, Chinese, Indians and Oranag Asal but maybe by the groups or individuals that claim to represent them.

    And that is the difference between you and me.

    Re: re: “you neither seem interested in my responses”…AGREE

    Well duh.

    1. seriously dude…ni dah masuk bahasa isyarat ni….still we are talking in different bahasa isyarat….you still cant grasp ur own spin…

      re: “At this point I think you are having trouble with Malaysian English, so you should not aim for anything beyond our borders.”

      I have not…my English is Malaysian English..si I am not sure which English you are talking about?… Singlish…maybe? I find it repulsive as well…

      The transcript is well….plain and clear…I let others judge…

      No point in further communication…..over and out…

      As I stated I neither care for your question nor your response….

      Over and out

  21. mdsabu,

    I think Conrad is “I’m not an Indian! I’m a Christian!” Many a time I come across this kind of people. Malu nak mengaku dia orang India. Cakap berpusing-pusing, hanya dialah yang betul! At one time I tried to explain to this lady that Indian is a race whereas Christian is a religion. But she still adamantly refused to acknowledge she’s an Indian.

    1. Actually I make no bones about the fact that I am Indian and that I am a heretical Christian. A cursory reading of this thread would point to the fact I am extremely troubled by the Evangelists. Don’t blame me if your education renders you incapable of understanding the most simplest of arguments. I guess you must be one of those Malays who goes on about the equality of Islam but yet has no problem lapping up the special privileges that you think you are owed. Needless to say your kind is not a rarity.

      1. Lapping up the special privileges? That’s the mentality of the non-Malays who assume that all Malays benefit or are accorded with special privileges. I live in the US since the early 90’s and the only special privileges I get for being a Bumi is my investment in ASB. All my nephews and nieces graduated from UK. No doubt they were eligible for government scholarships because of their good academic standings but their parents would rather pay out of their own pockets so that the less fortunate bumis would enjoy the benefits.

        You as a non-Bumi cannot question the special rights of the Malays as stated in the constitution. If you challenge this, we can also challenge your rights to remain in this country.

        1. Well bully for you, being a Malay and out of the country and surviving in the big bad USofA. And good for your nephews and nieces who don’t bleed our public coffers like so many others, who feel that they are owed. Well done, welcome to the other side of Malaysia.

          Your pathetic attempt at defining me, is matched only by your ignorance. Exactly where did I challenge the special rights of the Malays in the constitution ? That’s right, no where. But you are ignorant, paranoid and just plain bigoted enough to make such an accusation .

          And even if I did challenge these rights I would have no problem with you challenging my right to remain in this country, as if your kind ever needed a justification to remind us (Non Malays) of the latter.

          1. People with selective amnesia surely needed to be reminded as often as possible. Somebody had surely forgotten to remind you on this!

            Just be thankful for the favours granted will you!

          2. Conrad,

            what do you mean bleed your coffer?

            For the uninitiated like you, Constitution clearly says priority of scholarship to Malays. why? Because in 1957, the 9 Malay rulers agreed to grant citizenship to non Malays en bloc(including your parents).

            Stop insulting the Malays. Majority of my colleagues while studying in USA passed with flying colours.

            1. Shamsul,

              By bleeding the coffers I meant people who could afford to go on their own but chose to bleed the coffers. I am talking about the wastage of public funds or using public money for personal gain. I call this corruption but KJ calls it leakages.

              It is obviously you who are uninitiated because the Constitution “clearly” says no such thing. Look it up. When you do, you would see the word “fair” in there pretty clearly.

              Stop insulting the Non Malays. I know far too many people who made the grade who were not offered anything but many who didn’t but were given the golden ticket.

              1. Edit for correction:

                Para 2.

                It is obviously you who are uninitiated because the Constitution “clearly” says no such thing. Look it up. When you do, you would see the word “reasonable” in there pretty clearly.

  22. Ms. H. Until the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP joins the BN as led by the UMNO with the 13 component parties, the DAP can stomp around with their new found friends the new Christians who replaced those guys in 555 singlets of 1969. Until then…Ms H !!

  23. I wonder why Singapore does not have this kind of Chinese vs Malay or Malay vs Indian problem. Or Christian vs Hindu or Muslim vs Christian problem?

    1. Adeline,

      Because Singapore does not have separate ways(separate school that literally separate people).

      And unfortunately in Malaysia, something is not right in AG’s office. The perception is that Chinese can get away insullting Islam/Malay..

      1. SA,

        What about Malay Muslims who got away after insulting the non Malays/non Muslims like Ibrahim Ali and Zul Noordin?

    2. Adeline,

      Because If the government ask them to sit, they will sit, and if the government ask them to jump, they will ask how high? Otherwise “kena fine” as Singapore is known is a “FINE” city.

      Dekat sini tak kira la bangsa apapun semua BESAR KEPALA.

      1. LOL,

        But it was not like that during Dr Mahathir’s tenure.

        Why? bEcause Dr Mahathir could not be bothered with popularity. He did what he thought as right.

        He is firm. No such as as insulting religion, give ritual statement to Balai Polis and off you are out of the wood.

        His method would be detaining the trouble makers.

        Actually that is the right way. No need to pander to Lathifa Koya or useless lawyers who play on technicality.

        And I know there is something he would have done long time go had he now in power.

        DR MAHATHIR will definitely get a new Attorney General.

    3. Hey ! Hey ! Adeline ! SINGAPORE STILL HAS THE COMPLETE UNEXPURGATED SET OF ISA AND EO LAWS WHICH WERE PROMULGATED AT THE SAME TIME AS MALAYSIA’S IN 1948 WHICH THE BN GOVERNMENT RECENTLY JUST THREW THE WHOLE LOT INTO THE DUSTBIN WITHOUT DEBATE OR HEARING. (you and me were not informed). WE THE CITIZENS MAYBE THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD WITHOUT A SECURITY BLANKET. Somebody forgot we are NOT Gibraltar or Monte Carlo ! OMG Adeline !

    4. Also, Adeline, even though the Singapore Police Chief claims Singapore has 10,000 policemen, I believe there are only 4,000 professionals buttressed by about 2,000 NS and 1,000 auxillaries. Why ? In 1972, Singapore had 2,000 registered gangsters. By 1982, there were none because it was alleged these fellows checked into JB every day at 9 a.m. and checked out at 5 p.m. after a hard day’s work. This sensible arrangement makes Singapore crime free and save a lot of money, kiasu style. No murders in the streets too ! Smart !

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