I really don’t understand why is that video made by Chetz Yusof is considered insensitive. I admit that I can never comprehend why is that particular video would trigger such an outburst to the point she’s now being remanded in a lockup in Segamat.
But reading her blog a moment ago, unveiled some of her personal life about her love for her grandma, her personal journey towards finding fulfillment in life through man’s best friends was really heart warming; it gives me an impression she’s just another good citizen out there. And for her to be remanded in a lockup because of this really saddens me.
Lousy.Engineer’s comment originally @ 2013/08/01 at 8:29 pm
Below is a Letter to the Editor by Aneesa Alphonsus.
Aneesa is someone I know. We were in the same batch of cadet reporters in NST many years ago.
By Aneesa Alphonsus
Chetz Togom or Maznah Mohd Yusof is my best friend. Today, she’s being harassed, hounded and harangued for a video she made three years ago on how she spent that particular Hari Raya with her dogs. I was there when the video was shot and since TV stations are not taking the trouble to find out why she made that video, I’m going to tell them and all the others who are screaming for Chetz’s blood why she made that video.
It was late morning when she took her dogs for a walk. When she came home, Chetz cleaned herself, then she washed the dogs’ paws as she planned on bringing them into the house for some treats. When I asked her why she did it this way, she said, “No special reason, I just want people to know that having dogs isn’t a dirty thing. We clean them and we clean ourselves well.”
That was it. It has nothing to do with all the fuss about “ambik air sembahyang dengan anjing” (taking abolution with the dogs) that some irresponsible media quarters are harping on as are some bloggers who don’t know head or tail, pun not intended, about the situation.
Then there is the question of the takbir Raya. Chetz put it in the video because it reminds her of her late grandmother who raised her, plus the fact that it is significant to Hari Raya. What is the harm in that? How does this show disrespect to Islam?
I want to add that she has also been given a very hard time by certain individuals who berated her for being a Muslim who rescues and works with dogs. When she shares videos about noted Islamic teachers and scholars speaking about dogs being permissible in Islam, the retorts, among others, include. “ Why must you help dogs? Why can’t you help people?”
So now, Chetz has to help who they think she should? Anyone who knows Chetz will attest to how much respect she has for her faith and religion. She has battled inwardly with several of her choices in regards to helping dogs, and has been troubled numerous times because of this.
It takes courage to do this. It takes courage to go through something like this – to follow what your heart and conscience tells you, to the chagrin of people who react so unfairly to something they don’t care to find out more about.
Chetz is a good person and she has never, not once, said anything against her faith and religion. To think that a harmless video made over three years ago is being dredged up now, makes one wonder why? Why now?
And is the video so offensive that it warrants death threats? Who gives anyone the right to say, “I’m going to find a gun a shoot this person who made the video”? Is it really that severe?
Watch the video again and see for yourself if there is any intent to offend Islam. It saddens and disappoints me that with so many issues that should be brought to the fore, some quarters are choosing to make something out of nothing. This is what the mob mentality is about.
To journalists, news editors, bloggers, Facebook and other social media users, I ask of you, please use discernment and see if something really warrants such a harsh response.
What if it were you, or someone you loved, or someone who know who is being persecuted wrongly? Wouldn’t you wish they were given the proverbial fair trial before judgment? What happened to the being given the benefit of the doubt, or does this not apply when it comes to religion.
Aneesa’s letter was published in FMT today under the title ‘Why my friend Chetz made that video’.
The headline of this post has been amended from ‘Have we become a nation of murderers?’ to the current form with an addition of the word “potential”.
317 thoughts on “Have we become a nation of potential murderers?”
This is in response to Lousy engineer.
It is quite simple actually. Muslims are offended that their rituals in praying are mocked by one Cik Maznah . The lady equates Muslim’a performing ablution with that of her washing and cleaning of dogs.
In in another word, nobody likes to be equated with “anjing’. Secondly, Islamic law says that “dogs’ are “najis’.
I have no problem if she preaches the need to be humane and merciful to animals. That is highly encouraged . But to mock the religious ruling is out of line.
I watched the video. and i find what she did was insulting.
Lousy engineer fails to comprehend how Muslims view things. I do not expect her to understand anyway. Maybe she will understand if he/she takes the trouble to ask around.
quote,”The lady equates Muslim’a performing ablution with that of her washing and cleaning of dogs.”unquote.
I agree with you. Apparently she’s ignorant about Islam’s rules and regulations, and Lousy engineer as well. Hence her insulting video to Muslims like me.
She can show her compassion for animals to the world, but why associate Islamic rituals with the way she handles and treats her dog? She could have good intentions, but it was done in a very poor taste fashion.
She is not ignorant of Islam’s rule. She just mocked the ruling.
This is exactly where “iman dan takwa” play a part. If we want to be known to have even the minimum og that qualities so central in Muslim’s life, we would not mock our own faith by equating Islam with “anjing’.
Just like nobody like to be called “anjing”.
re: “we would not mock our own faith by equating Islam with “anjing’.”
To give a kind reading, it could be that she was equating her faith with Merciful and Compassionate to all living things.
In Malaysia, we follow Mazhab Syafie to the core, most of the time. If we touch a dog with dry hand, while the dog is wet, we have to wash our hands with mud-water and rinse with flowing clean water 7 times afterwards. That’s how ‘najis’ dog is. Similarly the same ritual with any parts a pig.
We can’t perform ablution before performing prayers without doing the above ritual.
Having said that, you must understand how Msian muslims feel. This girl seems to understand the ‘hukum’ on dogs affairs, but, she seems to mock it. She can do what ever she wants with her dogs, but, putting in public domain is mere stupidity.
In any case Guys/Gals, be always mindful what you upload into Internet world… we have billions of people around the world; with countless number of religions also; and lots of sensitive people too… Malaysians should have learned by now that we have to respect each other and the religions that they believe…
When exactly did she mocked the ablution process? When she washed her feet? What? Don’t you wash your feet after taking a walk outside?
When did she equate anything with anjing? Did she said “my dog did this. muslims do this. therefore muslims are anjing…”. Did she?
What exactly did she do that insults you? She washed her feet? She washed her dog’s paw? How are you insulted? I’m beginning to doubt that you have watched the video.
Malays are overly sensitive. Draw a circle in the sand, say “ini kepala bapak awak” then step on it. Malays will murder you for it.
Just shrug it, man. “Tidak. Itu bukan kepala bapak aku. Kau yang bodoh”. Move on.
Nah.. ni tetek mak kau aku picit lordapes.. shrug it la..
“Malays are overly sensitive. Draw a circle in the sand, say “ini kepala bapak awak” then step on it. Malays will murder you for it.”
loedapes, Apa pula reaksi anda bila orang cakap begitu kepada anda? Lebih baik lagi letak gambar bapak awak, pijak dan letak najis di atasnya!
Kalau anda bukan Islam jangan komen hal hal yang berkaitan dengan agama Islam. Sampai kiamat pun anda tidak akan faham.
Hal hal yang menyentuh agama Islam, orang Islam sanggup mati kerananya!
Itu manusia kalau dia setakat mahu main main dengan anjing, mahu ajak anjing makan kuih raya dengannya malah dia mahu k-ng-e- sama itu anjing, kita orang tidak peduli!
Tapi bila dia menghubungkaitkan dengan agama Islam seperti mengambil wuduk, satu ritual yang amat suci bagi orang Islam sebelum solat, itu sudah terlalu, lalu KURANG AJAR!
Nasib baik anda di Malaysia, kalau anda di Indonesia, Pakistan atau Negara Negara Arab sudah hancur lu punya badan! Kalau berani lu pergilah tinggal di sana!
Kalau lu tidak hormat pada agama lu, lu punya pasal, tapi jangan hina agama orang lain.
Golongan anda memang amat ‘merindui’ tragedy 13 Mei!
“Golongan anda memang amat ‘merindui’ tragedy 13 Mei!”
Norlin, are you making an assumption that Lordapes is of the Golongan yang merindui tragedy 13 Mei – in this case i presume you mean Cina OR do you know this Lordapes personally? Because if you don’t and he/she turns out to be some other race, I think you are as bad as the DPM who just lambasted the non-Muslims re the video without doing any of his own research on who produced it in the first place. In any event such comments by you are my mind racists.
“when exactly did she mock…”
By showing ablution process in between the video showing her washing dog’s paw, leg. She did it in purpose.
‘malay are overly sensitive. “memang betul. thats why we have to change it. malays must be strong and united.
nevertheless we are the majority in malaysia. other nation such as myanmar, where the minority etnic rohingya has been wipe out from their home. while in malaysia, the chinese minority and others can live happily and have a huge of asset.
so the malay here was
so nice and baik hati.. but dont take for granted… otherwise u all minority might end up like the rohingya…
U r right Shamsul Anuar.
It’s not hard to comprehend why they have no idea on why this matter have been deemed insulting to the Muslims. For them, they viewed the matter from within their isolated mind frame, dictates what is sensitive or not, by referring their own isolated experience as non Muslims and not even able to distinguish between her love for her pet and her action of insinuating insults to the Muslim.
Most of them (99.9917942%), have no idea that the Islamic jurisprudence allows dog keeping only in strict needful condition, which she is not even in. We have matters of cleanliness (Thaharah) as our main concern regarding whatever we do in our live. We treat dogs with respect but avoid unnecessary contact with it as it’ll eventually will caused us time to get clean. We have different category of Najis and how to deal with it. As dogs saliva has been categorized as Mughallazah & it have tendency to lick its owner, this will cause some problem to any practicing Muslims to maintain their cleanliness of their house and body. To the Muslims, cleanliness is the main door that opens up the conscience aspect of any ibadah. And it was made a tenet before performing Solat and any ibadah that they have to get clean. With knowledge equals to zilch on this matter, they still have the face to teach us the estrange value that we consider as deviate from our Syafi’e’s mazhab. They have no idea of what al hadeeth and al urf category of sources that the prohibition of dogs keeping were derived from in Islamic jurisprudence are all about. All of these are far out of reach from their isolated minds even though living in a Muslim’s majority country.
Still they want they view to be heard out loud though we see them as ‘the know nothing’ Muslims bashing clan stereotypes.
The takbir raya is our call of victory. Without even knowing its meaning, they treat that part in the video as a passing. Equating the victory with having unclean animal share the same meal and festivity were deemed insulting to the Muslims. The have no idea that dogs in the Qur’an was equate to treacherous character of deceitful pious man in Al A’raf 175 to 176 (in this case Balaam ben Bau’ra – the same Bal’am ben Be’or in Numbers 22) & a companion dog which is left to rot while it’s owner the companion of the cave (al Kahf) in suratul Kahfi achieved victory hundred of years after they’ve fight for the security of their faith. They have not even the slightest knowledge regarding all these, but with thick face, they push on the courage to impose their sets of believe on Muslims.
If she wants to keep dogs, kissing ’em or even sleeping with them.. & keep it to herself, nobody will disturbs her.. But this lady went overboard by insulting the Takbir (muslim’s call of victory) and Muslim’s Holy Day & displays act deemed as insulting to Muslims faith & shows her disrespectful act to the world.. of course she have to deal with the outraging Muslims.
Solomon once said in the Book of Proverbs
תֵּחַת גְּעָרָה בְמֵבִין מֵהַכּוֹת כְּסִיל מֵאָה
(Tekhat Ge’Arah Be Mevin – Me Hakot Kesil Me-Ah)
An intelligent person learns more from one rebuke than a fool learns from being beaten a hundred times. (Prov 17.10)
So.. please learn something from first rebuke.
Metatron, isn’t it our duty then as good Muslims to educate the non-Muslims in a fair and intelligent and kindly manner. No point insulting people who don’t know about our faith. Lets be frank, most of us don’t know or even appreciate their beliefs and practices. I find your whole comment condescending.
There is nothing wrong if they ask questions or wonder about things – why must you be so arrogant in your response.
A condescending response Mr. Sham? How about u?
The reply was purposely designed as a reflecting mirror to the lingo that they hurled at the Muslims.. If they really want to discourse in a friendly & respectful manner, don’t show us the foot when a good hello and polite way of asking was more than adequate.
To ur info, they are not asking question.. they are bombarding the Muslims with tons of abusive language, stereotyping with patronizing manner.. unless u see all that with the second eye blind.
If u find my answer as arrogant just becoz it returns the stereotyping back where it belongs, then arrogant stereotyping is really a good thing. I don’t know about u, but I personally don’t think that my answer to them could be at par with they hurled at the Muslims.
Should i buy them some lollipop just to make em happy or should I deal with it according to their level of abuse of the issue?
Now, Mr. Sham, since when that telling the truth of what lies beneath their superficial act can be equate as arrogant? I gave my answer in the full context. It explains where they have missed out from the beginning of this problem. It explains what they are lacking so that they know there more than the surface level that they could see in a any of the Muslims practice. Some critics I add just to return the same critics that they hurled. If u find me flexing the muscle, believe me Sham, it just a mere reaction to their action which I adjust accordingly.
Yes.. there is nothing wrong in asking question. So do please ask question just like civilized people asking a question. Yes, Islam asked us to tolerate with the other, but not to a level where its dignity can be trample underfoot. I they want the reaction to be good and calm, starts with the same action.
Do to the others as you would have them do unto you. They preached us repetitively the golden rule, but when it came to muslim bashing, they forget it just like Mr. Sham forget it..
Mgkin betul Melayu mudah lupa..
Music to my ears! Bro, they should be grateful you are willing to explain yourself. How is that arrogant?
I guess different standard applies to Muslims/Malays, act bodo for our own good or otherwise be damned!
I beg to differ. Anjing’s saliva is considered najis but not the dog. My late maternal grandfather who lived in Kelantan kept a dog and he named him ‘Abu Bakar’ and the dog went with him every where. When my siblings and I were growing up in Taman Tun, our late dad bought a dog from it’s owner who was cruel to the dog. We were taught how to take care of the dog without compromising hukum-hukum Islam for e.g. when we wanted to bathe the dog we made sure we used long gloves. There is nothing in the Quran which says that dogs are haram. As for pigs, they are haram even to touch. Having said that, it doesn’t mean we can be cruel to them as they are also ciptaan Allah. Anyway, dogs and pigs are intelligent animals and they are also cute!
Please be nice to animals no matter what they are!
Do read my comment. Did i say it is OK to be cruel to animal?
The issue here is not about humane treatment to dog. That is not an issue. The issue here do you have to show ablution process and in between showing you washing dog’s paw, leg, ect.
She intended to make comparison between Muslim performing ablution and washing dog’s leg, paw. That is the insulting part.
When you are keeping dog, you are exposed to its saliva too. How many times you perform “samak”.
If we have pride and dignity as a Muslim, are we going to ridicule our own religion?
Just because your grandmother kept a dog does not mean what Cik Maznah did was right.
I have to agree with you on this one, i.e. “The issue here do you have to show ablution process and in between showing you washing dog’s paw”.
However my worry is the proliferation of death threats, so the issue is also with us (KITA).
The Seri Pristana HM claimed that he received death threats, the parent of the girl in The Room also claimed that she received death threats and her daughter received kidnap threats. It seems that every time a controversy brews, death threats abound.
In a nutshell, we’re all ready to kill each other.
I am equally disturbed, but intrigue to know who sensationalized and make this video went viral.
If well meaning Muslim doing this, know that we are not off the hook. We are guilty of helping sensationalized something that should be left obscured.
If well meaning non-muslim who start doing it, hopefully we all can learn a thing or two during this whole episode.
I just cringe if there are those out there who purposefully sensationalize this issue, knowing full well the sensitivity(ies) involved.
Methinks it’s more likely that there are those out there who purposefully sensationalize this issue, knowing full well the sensitivity(ies) involved.
They want to ignite a powder keg.
I think this is what we should focus on – that there might be those who want us Malaysian to be divided like never before.
Is there anyone who can calm both divide down?
I can resonate well with what RPK said: http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/58512-malaysian-politics-of-the-future
I am worried that the divide is getting wider by the day and becoming ever more difficult to bridge, if not impossible.
My Muslim brethren, listen to what our brother have to say about insult to our deen: [YouTube]
Surely we can say that Chetz is guilt free, can we?
Chetz have her share of guilt, so does those who help sensationalized her videos and news.
I think this issue is beyond fiqh. This is political. Chetz might just be a pawn.
Right. And how do you get to decide on this again?
Decision in what capacity?
As an individual, I tend to refer back to what happened when Sy. Ali r.a. was in war with Sy. ‘Aisyah r.a. and Sy. Muawiyah r.a. because of confusion in getting clear information. At that time, not many companion of the Prophet were involved.
I also want to remember how ‘Abdullah bin Ubay, disrespectfully stormed out from first row in Jumaah khutbah upon listening to The Qur’an in surah Al-munafiqun. Not to mention how he break ranks from the Muslim in Uhud and numerous other blasphemous actions of munafiqun. What did Sahaba r.a. do on those occasions? Do the inactions of Sahaba r.a. constitute that they did not love Islam nor the Rasul s.a.w.?
Chetz might not be a munafiqun, she might just be naively ignorant and insensitive. Even if she was deliberate and purposefully insulting, I strongly believe that we should not react over the top (though I am not very clear atm on how I want to express my anger). I feel that this issue will not be so stormy like it is now, if it was brought up before ‘bak kut teh’ and ‘Sri Pristana’ incidence.
I feel that all this is political and economical, no matter who brought it up to light first, the establishment or the opposition. I believe that if the masses reacted in calm and rational fashioned, the attempt to bring this type of provocation will died out, little by little, because it does not gain any currency.
mfma, yes I agree with you. I too wonder what kind of person would want to highlight this whole issue, know full well how the general public would react. What was that persons niat in this whole thing. For myself I personally feel sorry for Maznah. Rather than arresting her, i think they should give her counselling.
Only UMNO Muslim the defender of Islam on earth will do things like this, passing judgement on earth on behalf of Allah.
And who are you again passing judgement on UMNO Muslims?
cjb must be a DAP supporter. Put all the blames on UMNO!
You might not been exposed to how Pas behave.
Anon 2 Ogos 2013, 12.55
Air liur anjing dan tersentuh anjing yang basah hukumnya najis mughalazah ( najis berat ). Pergi lah belajar agama dengan mana mana ustaz/ustazah Tanya hal ini!
‘I am not being disrespectful when I am saying this’
Untuk mengetahui Islam sila rujuk AlQuran, hadith dan itijmak Ulamak. Jangan rujuk apa yang orang Islam lakukan.
Banyak yang dilakukan oleh orang orang Islam yang bertentangan dengan ajaran Islam sama ada disedari atau tidak!
Inilah sebab mengapa orang bukan Islam tidak menghormati agama dan orang Islam!
Contoh mudah, semua orang Islam adalah bersaudara. Ada hadith (?) yang mengatakan, “Tidak sempurna iman sesaorang Islam selagi dia tidak mengasehi saudaranya ( sesama agama )seperti dia mengasehi dirinya sendiri.
Tengok siapa yang sedang berperang sesama sendiri di dunia ini sekarang. Itulah sebab Allah swt tidak akan memberi kemenangan kepada orang Islam selagi mereka tidak memegang teguh ajaran Islam!
Bela anjing dan menggunakan anjing untuk tujuan tertentu tidak salah. Hanya perlu jaga ‘batas pergualan’ dengan haiwan ini!
quote, “Please be nice to animals no matter what they are!”unquote.
Did you even know what’s being discussed in this blog?
Lari topic laa…
I love dogs…too bad, here, Mazhab Shafie to the core, bro.
The Constitution would not stop you from migrating to any Muslim nations that allow u keeps dog, pigs, binturongs, lions, tigers, dinosaur or whatever u think that u can give ur love to. If can’t afford to migrates, u may adopt whatever mazhab that u think it suits you the most. But please keep it to urself and don’t go creates trouble with the majority by displaying ur act of disrespect. Respect is earned n not given. If u want respect, u first have to show that u know how to respect.
Only UMNO Muslim the defender of Islam on earth will do things like this, passing judgement on earth on behalf of Allah.
FUCK YOU WITH YOUR ANTI-UMNO
moya. No need to use the F word. Just say I do not agree with you because you are born out of a rock (meaning a fellow with no father or mother, a B……) Sorry.
& u passing ur own verdict on UMNO on whose behalf? Nanny Goat?
‘What if it were you, or someone you loved, or someone who know who is being persecuted wrongly? Wouldn’t you wish they were given the proverbial fair trial before judgment? What happened to the being given the benefit of the doubt, or does this not apply when it comes to religion.’ <—Exactly THIS. Now look what happened in the case of Seri Pristana.
I find it ironic that those who lambast the HM in that school, vilify him and call for his blood are also the ones who call for fair judgments and benefit of the doubt in the case of Maznah Mohd Yusof.
The call for social media users, journalists, bloggers etc to use discernment applies for Seri Pristana case too, and yet people are out for blood.
It makes me sad and angry.
For what it's worth, I'm giving Maznah the benefit of the doubt. Her video seemed to be a private video made way back in 2010, and it didn't bother anyone then. She had Muslims neighbours who don't mind her having dogs, except that the virality of the video and the vehemence of the reaction towards it made them uneasy, and for that I really do feel bad for her. I do wonder though who is the person who leaked the video, and why do that person choose to do it NOW, at this particular time, when it'll cause the biggest uproar.
all I can say is – just please 'bersangka baik', people. Doesn't matter who – just try to bersangka baik unless you have very, VERY good reason to do so.
re: “all I can say is – just please ‘bersangka baik’, people. Doesn’t matter who – just try to bersangka baik unless you have very, VERY good reason to do so.”
Good call Jamie.
She could put a stop to this nerve recking fiasco 3 years ago when her family asked her to consider deeply the consequences of the habit putting up videos which are deemed sensitive.. she worn off her grace period of allowing others to eligibly ‘husnu dzon’ (bersangka baik) her by playing deaf for a period more than 3 years.
How can others bersangka baik to her when she herself still bersangka buruk to others despite 3 years of calling her to pull out the video. Yet, still yesterday she ruthlessly lambasted the Muslims for having wanted her took responsibilities for what has transpire?
Jamie’s calling is good.. but in this case, it clearly needs a different approach.
And surely if nothing is being done, some body would have played the racial card again! Selective Prosecution will be in again, just enough to carry us right through the first day of Hari Raya!
Chetz obviously has deep mental problems and requires professional help.
I consider people who put baby clothes on their pets as disturbed, but those who perform religious rituals on them are downright Michael Jackson-level crazy.
I don’t understand why the politicians and the readers of this blog see her video as a political or religious issue, and not as the psychological issue that it is.
The video reveals the capability of Malaysians to twist an individual’s mental illness into a divisive political issue.
Wow. Hijacked Islam nampak?!
Mungkin ada yg lupa Christians too hate pengkid..
Deuteronomy 22 ayat 2
A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.
Tolong baca respon Maznah, Lupa dalam blog apa! Nilai sendiri jawapan yang diberinya!
I concur. Bersangka baiklah sesama insan. that why in pepatah melayu baik being said first before bad. “Buat baik di balas baik dan buat jahat dibalas jahat. Go figure then
Spot on Sarah..
The other side of dog habits; Lassie saves baby girl:
the other side of the other side of dog unpredictable habit..
[YouTube1: Dog -Attack 4-year-old Girl Caught on Tape — Graphic 1]
[YouTube2: Family Pit Bull kills 72 hour old baby boy!]
Pit bulls are savages among dogs, you could say they’re wired up for violent outbreaks. I know …. dogs are generally not the cleanest of creatures, they pooh everywhere and carry fleas on their bodies. But as for the beastial side of human beings ….. :
[YouTube: ‘Serial Killer Interviews – Scary stuff!‘]
& that is why we have sets of law n regulation..
The dog may have saved 100 humans but for some Muslim it is still equal to najis. So be very careful on Muslim matter especially from non Muslim, they are easily offended and you may get death threat for this consider than nowadays is so easy to hire assassin with guns. My best advise do not interfere let them sort out the problem themselves. Luckily she is Muslim otherwise she is either in jail or [***] now.
So why are still on this again?
If you are not even Muslims to begin with, why are tossing Allah SWT around like nobody business?
Re. “The dog may have saved 100 humans but for some Muslim it is still equal to najis.”
Yet some of the dogs are so unlucky they ended up the pot.
1. Dogs destined for the table: Horrific images show animals being killed, cooked and served up as a meal in Chinese tradition
2. Or pour hot water by the CINA DAP in PJ
3. All Chinese are so loving and caring about animal until one even step on kitten.
Re : “So be very careful on Muslim matter especially from non Muslim, they are easily offended and you may get death threat for this consider than nowadays is so easy to hire assassin with guns.”
1. You mean all the ALONG who harass, injure, kidnap and sometimes murdered people (majority of them are Chinese are a group of ANGEL?)
2. Or like the recent case where A chinese guy murdered the Muslim (AmBank Founder)?
3. or like the communist who are mostly Chinese terrorized this country in past?
At least when Muslim react it is due to certain specific reason that is when other people insult our religion to the max.
Re. Luckily she is Muslim otherwise she is either in jail or [***] now
ALOO brader/sista she was already in lockup in Segamat FYI. She will be charged in court.
Next time try better OK ODIKAL?
LOL, yang kat atas tu…Bodoh Yang Tidak Boleh Diajar!!!
(I should also add: always ‘bersangka baik’ unless they’re politicians then you’d already have a VERY good reason to NOT do so XDD)
hehehehe agree (nod nod nod)
Malays are super sensitive on matters to their believe. Orang Islam sendiri buat hal, we can see the chain effect. Kalau bukan Islam yang buat hal, we must aspect worst repercussion.
This is merely because of ignorance. In this case, maznah should have kept the videos for her own pleasure. Why upload and when there is backlash blame everyone else except herself. Live with the consequences of your actions. Be sensitive to others’ feelings.
Why do you say Malays are super sensitive on matters they believe. I am very sure any other race would just be as sensitive if it touched on something they truly believe.
The dog (and its cousins) is one great taboo in Islam. But no, Islam never asked Muslims to kill or hurt dogs either. And it is very ok to show affection to the particular animal, even touching it, but after that you have to ‘samak’ yourself and the stuff the dog touches after that.
The process of cleaning up oneself and belongings after touching a great taboo @ dog / pig – ‘samak’ is a bit fussy and EVERY mindful Muslim who watched the video knew that this Maznah would be lacking in her effort to samak herself EVERYTIME after she touched her dogs.
And you would ask; What’s the big deal?
If you fail to samak yourself, then you are unclean. When you are THAT unclean after touching a dog, you are unfit to pray and do other religious stuff.
And if you still ask; SO?
Then I shall label you an atheist and will have nothing to do with an unbeliever.
Your assumption that you need to samak after touching a dog is wrong. You can touch a dog when the dog is dry without having to samak. If you accidently or intentionally touch a wet dog, then you have to samak. The unclean part of the dog is its saliva. When the dog is wet, it tends to lick its body and its saliva transfers to the body.
The fact of the matter is, this video which was done in 2010 should not be aired for public viewing. If Maznah’s intention is personal, then keep the video for personal viewing. She knows very well how the Malays’ reactions towards dogs would be. Why she should jeopardize the lives of innocent creatures that she loves are beyond me.
‘Your assumption that you need to samak after touching a dog is wrong. You can touch a dog when the dog is dry without having to samak. If you accidently or intentionally touch a wet dog, then you have to samak. The unclean part of the dog is its saliva. When the dog is wet, it tends to lick its body and its saliva transfers to the body.’
Can you be assured that your palm is at all time dry? Can you be assured that the dog would not sweat at all?
You sure can’t! Thus what you have written also is not right. Malays know this fact thus the general reservations. Do you seriously thinks we are in the dark about the fact that you have highlighted? Just because Yasmin Ahmad had ‘told’ you so, it does not mean that it is correct you know?
Unless you are suffering from a dry hands, normal hands tend to be having some quantification of hyperhidrosis:
Did the late Yasmin Ahmad say anything or show in her movies anything about the topic of wet dogs?
One of her film, I like the film though, Gubra, had a bilal cared and caress an anjing he had found on his way to the Surau to call for the Azan Subuh.
Yasmin had also claimed in her defence (the scene also created some uproar, thus I believe Chetz should have taken note and avoid of making or at least sharing the video with the public in the first place knowing the general sentiments), that both the bilal and the anjing sama-sama kering.
Just like the assumptions given by anon to validate tidak perlu samak apabila pegang anjing kerana anjing itu kering.
Sebab we can never be sure that our palms at least, are really dry.
Thanks for the link.
You are welcome.
Quran doesn’t mention dog is dirty, unclean or even haram.
Are you a Muslim?
tik tok tik tok tik tok.. bila mahu jawab soalan Islam1st?
Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok
Tik Tok Tik Tok.. aloo brother! Sampai kiamat ka kena tunggu u punya simple answer?
The Majority (Sunni Muslim Malays) in MALAYsia DONT like dogs due to the inherent nature of najis Mughallazah. Since the fakers (confused dapster loudmouths) stumble over each other with Arabic & Quranic verses etc trying to endear themselves to the Majority (which itself is an insult due to the fakiness), these fools should also google types of najis. Its not rocket science to understand. I mean if you are going to fake it, might as well fake it all the way by shutting the hell up & fake your respect to the views of the Majority. Then this wont be an issue anymore.
My sister was the first one who pointed me to this news. As a dog lover, my sister was naturally upset about the plight of this Muslim lady being indicted for loving her dogs, I acknowledge I left out the religion implication of this case, simply because I am not a Muslim, I only see things from a non-Muslim perspective.
As a non-Muslim, I know I cannot comment much in relation to this case as it has ventured into the taboo sphere of faith matters. In other words, a no-man’s land for the nons.
I am however happy Helen picked this up.
Knowing a majority of Muslims frequent this blog, it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on this matter. For the non-Muslims, this is a good indication on how the majority Muslims in this country decide among themselves if they prefer a more moderate or hardline approach in their Islam practices.
Would we be more moderate to you and your kinds, should we buka puasa with Bak Kut Teh and sleep with dogs?
How can we be less hardline to you and your kinds, would you care to comment?
‘ if they prefer a more moderate or hardline approach in their Islam practices.’
Do you even know what are you trying to say? Care to elaborate to teach a thing or two to the Muslims about Islam?
First and foremost I appreciate others who took time to comment on my post.
[Quote Islam1st: Do you even know what are you trying to say? Care to elaborate to teach a thing or two to the Muslims about Islam?]
Teach Muslim? Concede my choice of words may not be the best, otherwise I would not had trigger your hostile button.
I will try my best to elaborate but please lower your standard a bit as I am trying to explain what I meant with regards to moderate and hardline as best I could in elementary Non-Muslim standard.
For the non-Muslims, it is natural to compare Malaysia, an Islamic country with other Islamic country in the world to gauge where Malaysia stand in the so-called “Islamic country index.”
The examples of moderate Islam would be countries like Egypt, Turkey and Jordan. Countries with a balance of Islam sprinkled with a healthy dose of liberalism.
The extreme hardline version would be Pakistan, Saudi and Afghanistan.
To be dead honest, the non-Muslims are not oblivious to the direction of the Muslim majority in this country. Of course the nons care. Of course we are worried if the hardline version is adopted. I’ve heard enough horror stories of Pakistani wives getting their noses cut off by their husbands and daughters sacrificed to preserve family honor. Of course the latest being the case in Dubai where a Norweigan lady was sentenced to jail for merely reporting her own rape.
Perhaps you might want to read more of the kind of culture the people of the countries you have mentioned, be it moderate or hardline (according to you, of course!).
Perhaps you and the rest of the non-Muslims are oblivious of Islam, The Religion of Peace, first and foremost. Perhaps you might want to learn more to further understand about it. You might want to read the Quran. Even that, I suggest you get an Ustaz to guide you through.
And secondly, I believe that you and the rest of the non-Muslims are equally oblivious on Muslims and their (we are racially and culturally diverse, you know) way of life. Before and after Islam. What they have left with the advent of Islam and what they have not!
That link has not gone past me unnoticed. But to understand Islam and Muslims by referencing CNN is always a bad start!
[Quote: Perhaps you might want to read more of the kind of culture the people of the countries you have mentioned, be it moderate or hardline (according to you, of course!).]
Are Muslims defined foremost by their culture or Quran teachings? As in the case of nose cutting etc?
Now, these are some of the pressing questions non-Muslims would ask.
Feel free not to answer if you think this is pointless going thru and forth with ‘my kind’. I do appreciate the opportunity for discourse with folks with different takes on this blog. Some I agree, some I don’t. No need to use your condescending tone.
‘No need to use your condescending tone.’
Obviously I did. But let us now see how you would fare, will you?
This is taken from the very posting that trigger me to respond.
‘For the non-Muslims, this is a good indication on how the majority Muslims in this country decide among themselves if they prefer a more moderate or hardline approach in their Islam practices.’
Is this not condescending enough? Does this sound like coming from a rational and discourse loving non-Muslim? FYI, I find it not only condescending, but patronizing as well, since you are not a Muslim yourself, how did you get to dictate which way the Muslims in Malaysia should be heading. I say it is non of your business, first and foremost and that remark of yours (and your kinds), was definitely insulting too!
So how plain more, you want me to phrase my respond to your good self?
Then you continued on the other thread with this one below.
‘I’ve heard enough horror stories of Pakistani wives getting their noses cut off by their husbands and daughters sacrificed to preserve family honor.’
Is the line of question you choose to post to me as a pretext of your good self wanting to understand more of the religion, not condescending to you?
Then you go on asking me this, ‘Are Muslims defined foremost by their culture or Quran teachings? As in the case of nose cutting etc?’
Again ‘the nose cutting’. Our Muslims defined by the nose cutting acts done by the Pakistanis in Pakistan? Are Malaysian Muslims define by the nose cutting Pakistanis?
Did you at get it? You doing so and at the same breath having the gut to tell me off, that you don’t appreciate my condescending tone?
So, how do you think I like yours?
Do you think I’m stupid?!
I take it you are angry and we are obviously on different wave length.
[Quote: …since you are not a Muslim yourself, how did you get to dictate which way the Muslims in Malaysia should be heading. I say it is non of your business…]
I say so too, but I have to disagree with the ‘non-of our business’ part. Having thrived as a multi racial country, it would be wrong to understate the importance of our racial eco-system in relation to faiths. BTW, I did not say the non-Muslim to dictate which direction Muslims ought to head. It’s just good to know…
[Quote: ‘I’ve heard enough horror stories of Pakistani wives getting their noses cut off by their husbands and daughters sacrificed to preserve family honor.’
Is the line of question you choose to post to me as a pretext of your good self wanting to understand more of the religion, not condescending to you?]
I’ve been asked by your goodself to elaborate my definition of moderate and hard line Islam. I then gave examples of countries I consider practicing ‘moderate’ and extreme Islam. The nose cutting example was simply my illustration of ”extreme’ practices.
[Quote: ‘Are Muslims defined foremost by their culture or Quran teachings? Our Muslims defined by the nose cutting acts done by the Pakistanis in Pakistan? Are Malaysian Muslims define by the nose cutting Pakistanis?”]
This is a legit question. I cited extreme Islamic practices in Pakistan and you implied that is more of a ‘culture’ thing. So naturally that begged the question are Muslims’ daily practices defined by the Quran or by its geographical culture.
Finally, I like to add there is no intent on my part to offend anyone.
i think u r.
Where u find HH, u’ll find HY.. a doppelganger or something else?
Nothing sinister there I assure you. No need to think too much. :-)
BTW now that you bring it up, I daresay I did think of taking up another moniker. Something kickass and powerful. HH is rather lame… I thought of Megatron but aiseh, bro you are Metatron already. Nanti people think I am your doppelganger pulak!
hy (huayong not hannahyeoh) in chinese mean ordinary or mediocre chinese. i dun know what hh stand for, by reading his/her comments that is pretty engaging n rational, i think it could be something like hunting harmony, hidden harmony or whatever harmony?!
quote” For the non-Muslims, this is a good indication on how the majority Muslims in this country decide among themselves if they prefer a more moderate or hardline approach in their Islam practices.”unquote.
There is no such thing of moderate or hardline approach, as far as this dog issue is concerned.
There’s is only one approach, as lined up in Quran.
And Quran said very clearly dog is NOT haram nor unclean.
Are you a Muslim to begin with?
Sudah dua kali belum jawab..
I beg your pardon. You got it all wrong.
Are you a Muslim or not…..answerlaaa..
what i see, the more reasonable ones are saying – we know it’s ok for Muslims to own dogs within certain reasons (for hunting, watchdogs etc), and we know we should it treat it like any other living creature – but we don’t understand why she chose to do the video the way she did knowing how a lot of Malays feel about dogs. It felt rather disrespectful, and that is the main issue. Disrespect, rather than whether or not Muslims should keep dogs etc.
I personally can empathize why she wants to make this video (maybe a personal statement for her family etc) even if don’t completely agree with HOW she went about it but I can also understand WHY people are upset over it.
the thing is to try to understand why both parties are coming from, instead of trying to shame or villify one another (we have both sides going ‘you don’t understand Islam enough’ – which is frankly pretty funny if it weren’t so sad).
I support your comment Jamie. We’re on the same page.
“the thing is to try to understand why both parties are coming from, instead of trying to shame or villify one another (we have both sides going ‘you don’t understand Islam enough’ – which is frankly pretty funny if it weren’t so sad).”
This is a dialogue platform so that everybody understand the issue better. It is not about shaming or vilifying each other. Some may have a very strong personal tone, while others are based on facts.
Take the good one and discard the bad one as you see fit. Everyone of us will learn a thing or two from here.
Sayangnya politikus-politikus kita bertekad untuk buang yang jernih dan ambil yang keruh. Maybe we should put a cap on the political industry and limit the number of (especially new) entrants.
The old timers like Datuk Onn and Tun Dr Ismail were classy.
The newbies pula like to accuse their opponents of being “low class”. Diorang takde cermin di rumah.
This issue might not be this explosive if it happened before Bak Kut Teah, Sri Pristana and balik India/ China and outside Ramadan.
‘….the majority Muslims in this country decide among themselves if they prefer a more moderate or hardline approach in their Islam practices.’
Saya faham mengapa anda berpendapat demikian kerana anda bukan Islam.
Ingin saya jelaskan dalam Islam, hokum hakam agama tidak ada apa yang dikatakan ‘more moderate or hardline approach’
Contoh dalam mengerjakan ibadat puasa, salah satu dari Rukun Islam.
Anda diwajibkan puasa 30 hari di bulan Ramadhan kalau anda sudah baligh, sihat dan ‘fit’ berbuat demikian.
Tidak diboleh untuk di moderate kan untuk lakukan hanya 20 hari saja. Kalau perperiksaan sekolah ini sudah Lulus tu, 20 per 30.
Begitu juga dengan hokum halal dan haram. Yang halal tetap halal yang haram tetap haram dan tidak boleh dilakukan.
Sungguhpun begitu ada kekecualiaan contohnya wanita yang didatangi haid dan sebagainya.
Pendekatan ‘moderate’ atau pun ‘hardine’ hanya dalam hal hal menyentuh urusan kehidupan tapi masih dalam landasan Islam.
Let me tell you a story about Frick. Frick is now about seven years old. Frick was rescued when he was still a puppy by a Muslim dude who saw Frick got beaten badly by a ‘Non-Muslim’ uncle. Frick white hair turned red soaked with blood.
So this Muslim dude rescued Frick, take him home and cleaned and nursed him for about a week. A week later he sent Frick to one of the shelter. However a volunteer told him that on that day the just put quite number of dogs to sleep since they have no more space. Knowing that Frick is actually local breed and chances for him to be adopted is not so good, this dude decided to keep Frick.
A week then turned into 4 years before he finally managed to get Frick a loving place to stay. For all these four years this dude have to explain to the family members and friends why is he keeping the dog.
Although this dude is a Muslim and very dog friendly, after watching the video of Chetz he knew Chetz is either couldn’t care less or plain insensitive or plain stupid or many many more.
There are so many story lines this dude can think of to be made into a video for education purposes. A Muslim yang ada ilmu sedikit sebanyak berkenaan anjing tidak akan buat video macam tu.
How are you to educate when you sendiri cetek ilmu. The video is making a mockery on guidelines that is already more than fair towards dog ownership in Islam.
Oh yes on the question if that dude is me.
That lady or was it a boy?, sorry I kind of ‘keliru’ watching the video, anyway, dia tu (dia, no gender, kan adil tu?!) sengaja nak test the water. Mungkin nak prove a point. Mungkin nak ‘ajar’ sikit Muslims yang kononnya tak berapa Muslims sebab ‘takutkan’ anjing. Mungkin nak having a good time ajar Muslims cara nak beraya dengan anjing.
Nampaknya dia dan geng dia rasa depa better Muslims sebab depa sayang anjing, as if the rest of us had no kasih sayang toward binatang, waima anjing sekalipun. Islam jelas tentang layanan kepada anjing. Juga makhluk ciptaan Allah SWT. Tapi apahal pula dia perasan bagus nak ajar orang lain. Samalah macam YAhmad dulu..Just because most of us avoided to be in contact with anjings, it does not mean that we hated it and had ill feeling towards it.
So please don’t insult us with basuh kaki ambil sembahyang juxtapose dengan lap kaki anjing.
May Allah bless you for your kindness.
Before GE12 alamak hari2 berita Hindraf asyik mengamok, Hindu Temple kena roboh bla bla org itu ini kena ISA sampai bawa surat nak saman Kerajaan United Kingdom after election you know la what happened to them eg Buah Kpg Buah Pala plight..
Trend post Tsunami Cina GE13 Helen tak nampak ke pattern?
Rakyat biasa macam kita la yang terlompat2 macam popcorns!
Saya curiga bagaimana YouTube buatan Chetz yang umur 3 tahun ini secara tiba-tiba boleh timbul. Rasa-rasanya macam ada mainan sandiwara politik. Kesian pada Chetz yang teraniaya oleh dalang politik.
Helen, Dia tak akan teraniaya jika dia dari awalnya mengambil sikap utk berfikir dulu sebelum bertindak.
Helen dah lupa ke, ODIKAL?
I saw the video clip and the part where she was washing and cleaning herself and the dogs. I see it as an act of cleaning oneself and the dogs, nothing more, nothing less. I did not see it as equating anyone with ‘anjing’.
Is she mocking any religious ruling? Is the video insulting?
If she is guilty, are men who neglect their children after their divorce also guilty of mocking and insulting religious rulings?
stay focus Azmi.. if we want to discuss other matters, why not bring along all sorts of cases from skim cepat kaya, sodomites priest, saman parking kereta, langgar lampu merah, berlian tokong kena curi, Guan Eng blaming the Excel and all sorts of nonsense that got nothing to do with the topic.
Spot on. Dumbing down spotted!
Two wrong does not make one right. Literally speaking just because some useless Muslim men fail and fail miserably in fulfilling their responsibilities as parent does not make what Che Maznah does as right.
So, let me make is easier for you. View her act as independent from cases of abusive Muslim men.
Interesting to see us Muslims getting worked out on this issue… as with other things in the Muslim world nowadays.. the middle east, bangladesh, pakistan, you name it.
Personally, I believe we have to have priorities lah… spending time & emotional energy on this issue is not productive lah. So does the so-called shi’ah issue lately… don’t we have more challenging issue that we should address? Like, the high rates of sumbang mahram, divorce, wives & children’s abuse, buang bayi, drug addictions, etc. AMONG Muslims in this country?
Do we know the intention of Maznah in this case just by looking at the video? Let it be between her and Allah lah, no need to get ourselves all worked out for nothing!
I beg to differ on Syiah issue.
I don’t know about you. What do you feel if your daughter, or your sister, offering themselves to be sexed with for say 1 hour or 1 day or 1 week and then off (‘temporary marriage’) with an ustaz?
What if it involve our mother or our wife?
Is this not a challenging issue?
The bad example of having Syiah is plain and clear as in Iraq, Syria and other Arabs world…
There is no good that could come from this faction….
The Melayus are already divided…cukuplah….TAK NAK SYIAH
I sokong. We don’t need Shiah in Malaysia. Hopefully with all Anwarinas and Nik Aziz are out of PAS, it will pave way for the merger of PAS and UMNO. One of my brothers-in-law is an UMNO man. At his daughter’s wedding reception in May (a day before GE 13), UMNO, PAS and ex-PKR leaders were amongst the guests. One PAS leader named Nasaruddin bin (sorry, I forgot his fullname) was given the honor of reciting the doa for the newlyweds.
Salam Sdra. mfma,
I respect your concerns, BUT have you actually gone through the history of the differences between Sunni & Shi’ah views on Nikah Mut’ah? May be you have… just in case, below is a short excerpt from Wiki on this:
Both Shias and Sunnis agree that Mut’ah was legal in the beginning. Ibn Kathir writes:
“There’s no doubt that in the outset of Islam, Mut’ah was allowed under the Shari’ah”. … it is only during the caliphate of Omar that it was claimed he abrogated nikah mut’ah, which the Shi’ie scholars didn’t agree… it is enlightening to go through the history of this difference between the two sects. Btw, “mothers & wives” DON’T qualify. So as you can see the question of “our mother or our wife” getting involved with nikah mut’ah is irrelevant lah kan?
BUT my point is to look at the bigger picture – with the current development in the Muslim world, Arab Spring, Black505, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc., we get to see that these countries (or Muslims in these countries) played to the scripts made by the Israelis & Americans… soon they will implode & self-destruct… the Jews & Americans will laugh their way to Jurusalem…
ONLY Iran is the last wall of defense for the Muslim world – the middle east, from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Libya, Tunisia, etc. & Indian sub-continent are all gone… at least the Iranians (and Hezbollah) still have the fighting spirit… pak Arab semua dah kena jual/beli… wayang kulit je selar Jews & Americans, in reality & practice depa sekongkol….
So yes, we may disagree with the Shi’ah, specifically on the issue of nikah mut’ah, etc., BUT as long as they don’t cross the line of rukun Islam & rukun iman, they are Muslims. Janganlah pendek akal sampai benci Shi’ah lebih dari benci Jews & Americans yang terang musuh Islam… don’t be like the stupid Pakistan sunni yang sampai bom mesjid orang shiah… it shows their shallow & ignorant mentality… kita di Malaysia pun seronok tompang sekaki kutuk Shiah macam lebih bahaya dari Yahudi!? Bodoh kan?
Itu sajalah, but as they say, at the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe….
sapa kata syiah termasuk dalam islam? ia sudah difatwakan sesat oleh jemaah mufti Malaysia…dari segi akidah pun dah menyeleweng…kenapa syiah dikatakan bahaya? sebab syiah sanggup menumpahkan darah orang sunni atas nama jihad…aku sudah nampak video dimana tentera syiah menyiksa tahanan mereka orang sunni..
orang pakistan ramai orang sunni…sudah pasti mereka disana sangat benci dengan syiah…aku yakin pengomen diatas ni pun penyokong syiah….tak payah la nak menyorok mengaku sunni dan menyalahkan orang pakistan yg mengebom masjid syiah…dan tak payah la konon nak beri gambaran yg syiah tu tak bahaya….puihh
tak payah nak puihh la, tepuk dada tanya selera… awak nak percaya dengan “fatwa jemaah mufti malaysia” itu hal awak la, tapi dah besar panjang tu guna la akal sendiri sikit buat research sendiri, tak perlu lah nak outsource berfikir kat mufti ke kat sapa, awak nanti kena jawab sendiri depan Allah SWT… bukan susah pun, google aje lah dan ambik yang terbaik, ilmu sekarang at the finger tip… kalau tenguk youtube tu pandai2 la buat analysis sendiri sahih ke tak, jangan telan bulat2, musuh Islam pun boleh reka macam2 nak bagi Muslim bergaduh sama sendiri… saya bukan penyokong Shiah atau Sunni, saya penyokong orang2 yang berpegang dengan “tali” Allah… inshaAllah. Cara & bahasa awak guna untuk berdebat pun dah tahu level mentaliti awak, buang masa je, selamat lah awak dengan pemikiran & pendirian awak. Selamat berpuasa.
baharudinferidah, tuan tak anti hadis kan? Satu lagi tuan belajar agama dengan google saja ka?
Kesian kita rakyat biasa,
bertikam lidah pasai toilet, pasai ludah anjing, pasai BAK KUT TEH, pasai pakaian Arab, orang ni kata orang tu bodoh dia lebih hebat, Agama I terror dari Agama you, gangstar itu tembak sana sini, ugut bunuh sana sini, balik India balik Cina balik Indonesia,
Pi mai pi mai tang tu juga,
Guess who will stand to gain most from all these confusions?
re: “Guess who will stand to gain most from all these confusions?”
Dunno. Can you tell us?
*** *** ***
This resurfacing of the Chetz video smacks of a politically manufactured controversy coming at a critical juncture.
But there is, however, a ‘victim’ to the political plots — it’s the Malay dog trainer in the video who is being put through a harrowing ordeal.
Unwitting individuals are made a pawn in the cynical political game, and they get hurt. There are so many repercussions awaiting Chetz.
Do we want our country to spiral into Pakistan and Afghanistan due to a manipulated climate of religious zealotry? (I’d like to make a special mention that the DAP too is responsible for bringing a fanatical Christian fundamentalism into the mainstream of national life.)
Malays didn’t use to be like this!
For those of us not old enough, there are the P. Ramlee-Saloma movies where we can see that the Malay world was different from what it is today.
Among those ordinary Malays who have lived through the 1950s, they are more broadminded and sensible than the pious Malay-friends-of-DAP we see today.
Actually Malays way back in 1950s were less hypocrite.
And Chinese way back in 1950s also different. Like Malays, they were less exteremist.
People change although not always on positive side.
Re: “Among those ordinary Malays who have lived through the 1950s, they are more broadminded and sensible than the pious Malay-friends-of-DAP we see today.”
And let us not forget those from the Establishment who are ever ready to flash their Islamic credentials. Those broadminded and sensible Malays used to lead the Establishment, can’t say the same now.
‘Malays didn’t use to be like this!’
Although this is rather patronizing, I will bersangka baik dengan Helen and tell her perhaps that this is the way to go for the Malaysm simply to put a stop of more and more insults coming towards them.
Personally, I doubt it.
‘Unwitting individuals are made a pawn in the cynical political game, and they get hurt. There are so many repercussions awaiting Chetz.’
Chetz is not a victim. Perhaps she enjoys the limelight being thrown at her. Lets face it.. some people cari makan with sex and sexual acts. Some people cari makan with anjing and making video of having a Hari Raya with anjings!
I won’t be surprised, people far and wide are lining up to back her and her cause!
I have theory, Might seem crazy and I may be wrong but this is what I observe from friends and families for several years now.
It’s no secret that there’re lots of ustaz who likes going around preaching ‘no need to think about being bangsa Melayu- that is assobiyah, it’s un-islamic.Think only about being a Muslim upholding Islam values, that’s all you need’. More often than not, these ustaz also tend to be of the PAS variety.
Then you have DAPsters who promote a ‘raceless’ Malaysia – we are all one and should NOT be identified by our race, only meritocracy applies. Then you have Malay-friends-of-DAP (who, coupled with dakwahs from PAS type ustaz above) who feel that in order to accomodate their non Malay friends, they’d need to cast off this ‘I am Malay’ mentality as well.
And then you have the other Melayu who feel that their place and rights in this country are slowly being eroded and insignificant due to the loud voices of the people above.
So you have Melayu who are being told they should not identify being Melayu, and Melayu who feel that sooner or later there might not be anymore Melayu in Malaysia. What do you hold on to, when you have nothing else, not even race identity? You hold on to your religion.
And when there is only that, to hold on to in order to get a root, a sense of belonging, you hold on so tight because there is nothing else.
And when that is all you have, and THAT in turn is attacked. mocked and disrespected – what happens?
You lash out. It’s like if you take 20 ringgit from a man who already had so much it may be nothing, but take 20 ringgit from a guy who only had that much and he needs it for his family and you see him fight tooth and nail for that 20 bucks.
This is what happened in Pakistan, in Afghanistan and in lots of other countries torn by Arab Spring. It’s by no means the whole cause, but definitely a factor.
re: “So you have Melayu who are being told they should not identify being Melayu, and Melayu who feel that sooner or later there might not be anymore Melayu in Malaysia. What do you hold on to, when you have nothing else, not even race identity? You hold on to your religion.”
I agree with your theory Jamie. DAP are the biggest morons to be keep on attacking the Malay identity.
Actually PAS is guity too. Remember it always chides UMNO for saying anything on Malays. As if it is sinful to speak about Malays.
Why be a hypocrite. Allah SWT creates all of us with different races, different colour, physical attributes. Variety is something to be appreciated.
As i said earlier, there is a country known as Saudi arabia. Saudi refers to BanI Saud, the ruling tribe of the country. Arabia stands for Arab people.
And there are country known as China, India and Malaya(Persekutuan Tanah Melayu). Why deny your own heritage.
‘The biggest threat to the country at the moment is Wahhabism and Shia (Islam) … extreme teachings,” Islamic Training Institute of Malaysia’s assistant director Zamihan Mat Zin told The Malaysian Insider.’
‘Zamihan stressed that, if left alone, Wahhabism and Shia Islam could “sow the seeds of extremism as seen in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia and Chechnya”.
What a coincidence, Helen.
‘A source told The Malaysian Insider that the NSC has decided that while the practice of Wahhabism does exist in the country, it does not pose any immediate security threat.’
Wahhabism seems to be largely regarded only as a threat to the country’s physical security i.e. via terrorism.
Therein lies the problem, methinks.
Re. “Unwitting individuals are made a pawn in the cynical political game, and they get hurt. There are so many repercussions awaiting Chetz.”
Yes and No. Please be informed with regard to Islam no one (not even the Muslim) is above the law. There are many stories about Muslim and Malays with dogs and most know how to handle the limits. Even celebrities who posted their photo with dog got the same reminder and hash comment from the public.
For instance there is no public outcry about this guy for he knows his limit:
This is another example and you can google many others on the other side of it:
Artis Jelita Kemaruk Anjing
Re . “For those of us not old enough, there are the P. Ramlee-Saloma movies where we can see that the Malay world was different from what it is today.”
In those days the understanding of Islam had deteriorated and at the same time it didn’t reflects the Malay culture in total ( by the dressing, PUB, etc. although they are still here today).
Re. “Malays didn’t use to be like this!”
As Muslim and Malays we learn every single day in our lives about Islam, hence we progress accordingly. Thus we also behave accordingly. What is a norm in the past is no longer a norm today.
Re. “Among those ordinary Malays who have lived through the 1950s, they are more broadminded and sensible than the pious Malay-friends-of-DAP we see today.”
Please do not equate the real Islam with Malay in general (as many Malay do not understand Islam in total INCLUDING MYSELF) and that of “Malay-friends-of-DAP we see today.
re: “In those [P. Ramlee] days the understanding of Islam had deteriorated”
Are you sure?
P. Ramlee’s heydays were in the late 1950s and early 1960s. We are some 50 years apart from his era.
However Islam came to the peninsula perhaps earlier than 1303 (date/year ref. Batu Bersurat Terengganu).
So the Malays already had an understanding of Islam in the 1300s, 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s and now in the noughties (2000s). This is the timeline of Islam in Malaysia and how Malays have lived as Muslims.
The 50 years from P. Ramlee to us is not all that much compared to the long, long time that Islam has been practised by your forefathers. I’d like to think that your great, great, great, great, grandparents were good Muslims who practised the Mercy and Compassion that you invoke in your daily prayers.
Who is to say that in all those earlier periods of time, that the Malay understanding of Islam “had deteriorated” compared to the Malay understanding of Islam in our present day?
As one example, what is your (or any reader here) understanding of Islam Hadhari?
Wasn’t Pendita Za’ba and Munsyi Abdullah’s understanding of Islam good? (Sorry, I’m not able to name olden day Islamic scholars offhand; PZ and MA are names I learned from Sejarah).
One towering Islamic scholar we have today is Syed Muhammad Naquib al-Attas. His biodata says he was born in 1931. That would make him in his 30s during P. Ramlee’s golden era.
Repeat: You suggested that “In those [P. Ramlee] days the understanding of Islam had deteriorated”
Don’t Syed Naquib and other Malay-Muslims of his generation have just as good an understanding of how Islam should be lived and breathed compared to the instant ana dan anta ustaz (equivalent of the Christian televangelist) who are currently popular.
On my part, I always like the considerate comments contributed to this blog by the senior citizens.
Re. : “Don’t Syed Naquib and other Malay-Muslims of his generation have just as good an understanding of how Islam”
You are talking about a several scholars, in fact there are many others i.e. ulamak who went unnoticed. Yes indeed they are, but the general public basically didn’t observe the teaching of Islam.
During the 60’s for example, it was known as “ZAMAN POP YEH YEH”, where mini skirt, low cut dress etc. were common. This is not an Islamic culture and not even a traditional Malay culture during that time.
What you read on paper and see on TV don’t represent what Islam is all about. For example, prior to 1980’s very few Muslims wearing Tudung, even then in my hometown few who wore Tudung were viewed as some sort of religious extremist (I remember the term “Orang Dakwah” that was used by the general public towards this group and with a bit of negative perception of it).
In the 19080’s onward we have started to see more and more Muslim women cover up and even more now. This is just one point.
P. Ramlee is Muslim Malay just like myself, but we don’t represent Islam the way we should represent. I have posted many times that as a Muslim Malay, I am still learning and discovering new things every single day of my life. I am not those Pak Lebai PAS or those “Serban” wearing Muslim Male (with no intention to offend them), I am just an ordinary person comfortable with jeans and t-shirt even in mosque (not with baju Melayu even most of the time).
Back during P.Ramlee period, I dont think anybody dare to do things like this…
Or maybe there was…but then no internet, less TV so nobody really know :)
Anyway, even those 60s, 70s Malay would have been jumping up and down in anger if you show them this sort of thing…. they might look liberal but I bet, at heart there are still muslim…
P. Ramlee understanding of Islam he reflects it in Semerah Padi. That is his view on how the Islamic community has to be.. Bujang Lapok, Do Re Mi & Ibu Mertuaku is the reality version of how to Muslim community had been forced to be by having annexed for 400 years by foreign oppressive countries.
Re:” Please be informed with regard to Islam no one (not even the Muslim) is above the law.”
Are you sure about that ?
Do you care to suggest otherwise? State your case then?
Only the MORON among us MUSLIMs have manipulated it for their political and personal purpose.
Just for the record why do you think Al Arqam, Al Maunah, Ayah Pin and various others have be charged.
I wasn’t referring to interpretation and if you are, you would be mistaken too.
You made the claim that nobody was above the law wrt to Islam . Now this may be so in theory but would you say that this is a practise in reality ?
I think those groups you mentioned, were charged because they went against the State approved version of Islam. Back in the good old days, Christian sects suffered the same fate before secularism took hold in Western nations.
Re: “You made the claim that nobody was above the law wrt to Islam”
It is not a personal claim,but it is the whole truth nothing but the truth according my Religion.
Re. I think those groups you mentioned, were charged because they went against the State approved version of Islam.”
….and I think you should refrain from giving view about Islam if you yourself don’t understand the subject. I have told this to the Muslims as well.
Re:”It is not a personal claim,but it is the whole truth nothing but the truth according my Religion. ”
Then how do you account for the discrepancy in treatment (normally class based) when it comes to this (your) Religion.
Re:”….and I think you should refrain from giving view about Islam if you yourself don’t understand the subject. I have told this to the Muslims as well.”
Why ? Nobody certainly not me, tell Muslims, to refrain from commenting on other Religions. Take a look at any thread concerning the Evangelists .
Plainly speaking you should not be talking cork about something that you have no idea on. Surely you can always amuse us with your half mabuk commentaries.
That aya had been saying things like its not the Religion of Peace after all and had nothing good said on the Religion, UMNO and Malays while being oblivious as to why people at times felt offended by his comments; insinuate or otherwise!
Re: “Then how do you account for the discrepancy in treatment (normally class based) when it comes to this (your) Religion.”
Read my earlier comment.
I was an analyst and still am, I read, scan and evaluate and conclude and provide solution. I have been reading your to-and- fro comments (though not all) with others, yes you have cut and paste, cite sources but the reality is mostly on “NATO” basis.
Longtime ago, I learn from my Communication101 Lecturer (or was it another professor) “write to express, not to impress”, and yours basically refers to the later. Or shall I quote my form 5 English teacher “pompous”.
Correct me if I am wrong, your are an Indian by ethnicity right?
Re: “Read my earlier comment. ”
I have. It didn’t answer my question.
Re: “I was an analyst and still am, I read, scan and evaluate and conclude and provide solution. I have been reading your to-and- fro comments (though not all) with others, yes you have cut and paste, cite sources but the reality is mostly on “NATO” basis.”
Where exactly have I cut & paste ? Since you scan, evaluate and conclude, perhaps, you could draw my attention, to this particular style of rhetoric you are accusing me off that I abhor . Also, what does “NATO” basis refer to ?
Re:”Longtime ago, I learn from my Communication101 Lecturer (or was it another professor) “write to express, not to impress”, and yours basically refers to the later. Or shall I quote my form 5 English teacher “pompous”.
Did your lecturer or professor also teach you, to resort to exemplums , when you can’t formulate reasoned arguments ? Have you noticed I never make comments on the writing styles of people unless it is to ask for clarification or retort in kind ? Consider this the latter.
Re:”Correct me if I am wrong, your are an Indian by ethnicity right?”
Uh huh, y’know, if you have to resort to race, at least get straight to the invectives instead of beating around the bush.
The following is my previous answer. Which part of it that you don’t understand.
Only the MORON among us MUSLIMs have manipulated it for their political and personal purpose. ”
Note: Here I am talking about the people who abuse it.
and here is your question ”
“Then how do you account for the discrepancy in treatment (normally class based) when it comes to this (your) Religion.”
Re. :Uh huh, y’know, if you have to resort to race, at least get straight to the invectives instead of beating around the bush.
It is a question. Why can’t you answer that?
You can say I am beating around the bush or what not, I couldn’t care less. I don’t prefer to prolong any discussion as in the form of “I am smarter than you are” kind of pattern, which you have been indulging in with others in here. Just read all your comment all over again, and see where does it lead to normally? NADA!
This is a side note. When I wrote about the plight of Indian community in previous trade based om my personal experiences and even discussion with people around me, you gladly labelled my comment as based on on UNFOUNDED MYTH (can’t remember the exact term) about the Indian community in Malaysia. From there on, I already see certain pattern where I feel it is not worth my time to waste.
AGAIN MAY I REMIND YOU IF YOU KNOW NUT ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF ISLAM, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING.
and may I add and quote Islam1st
“Surely you can always amuse us with your half mabuk commentaries.”
[Quote: Only the MORON among us MUSLIMs have manipulated it for their political and personal purpose. ”]
Firstly I am glad you acknowledge the reality of your religion being hijacked for political and personal gain by certain quarters. That is a good start. :)
[Quote: Surely you can always amuse us with your half mabuk commentaries.”]
I had always enjoy reading witty and sarcastic sparring exchanges between you, Conrad, Islam1st, Ak47 and SA. Discourse between people do not necessarily mean a consensus be reached everytime. But, the opportunity to engage someone with different viewpoint is a reward in itself. As an analyst, I’m sure you understand the importance of objectivity. Resorting to ethnic slur is a big no no.
I sympathise with her for the ordeal she is going through. I don’t think she purposely try to equate muslims like dogs. Her mistakes was having the “takbir hari raya” as the background music. Maybe that’s make the muslims angry.
re: ” Her mistakes was having the “takbir hari raya” as the background music.”
I think so too.
Should she is a practising Muslim, I doubt that it was merely a mistake. It was intentional on her part. She is not dumb is she?
“Should she is a practising Muslim”.
She is not the only one here in Malaysia, I posted before that I had a Malay neighbor once who live in Mat Salleh BF and having pork like no body business.
I am a Malay/ Muslim, live in the US and am married to an American. My husband has converted to Islam prior to our marriage but he is not a practicing Muslim (does not perform solats) but he fasts in Ramadhan (health/diet reasons) he cebuks after each bowel movements (he agrees it is hygienic to use water rather than just toilet paper) and is circumcised (his late father, a medical doctor advocated circumcision for male babies for hygiene reasons). I am a practicing Muslim (perform solats, fast in Ramadhan, zakat etc). And both of us eat only Halal meats and do not drink. I am an animal lover who provide food for strays daily (cats & dogs) and other animals like birds, bunnies, chipmunks and raccoons. But I don’t cover myself meaning I don’t wear tudungs and hijab. I wear shorts and dresses in the summer and swimming suits at the beach. For me, whether I am less Islamic or not, only Allah can be the Judge.
The same goes with Chefz – let Allah be the Judge. She could have good intentions – to teach the Malay Muslims that it is not a taboo to keep dogs. FYI some of the Arabs here keep dogs as pets and their women cover themselves from head to toe.
And you don’t go around judging other people who chooses not to lead their life as you or Chetz did. Surely you don’t a video preaching to Muslims in Malaysia asking them to Berhari Raya with anjing. Thus I seconded your opinion that, let Allah SWT be the judged. Unlike Chetz the law will be judging her for her videos now and come here after Allah SWT will definitely judge us all. You, Chetz and me included!
“The same goes with Chefz – let Allah be the Judge. She could have good intentions – to teach the Malay Muslims that it is not a taboo to keep dogs.”
There is nothing wrong with her having dog as a pet, but the video that she produced which “MEMPERSENDAKAN ISLAM” is the issue in contention here.
Below are the Malay NGOs who lodged the report.
I had never heard of them before… but then I’m not a Malay NGO authority either,
[“quote: The report was lodged by Ruhizat Safie, from self-proclaimed Muslim NGO Pertubuhan Martabat Jalinan Muhibah Malaysia (MJMM), who urged the police to take “stern, drastic action” against Maznah.
The report was supported by other NGOS who claim to represent the majority of the Malays in the country, including Secretariat NGO Negeri Selangor, BATAS Malaysia, and Paduka Master Rock.
MJMM president Abdul Rani Abdullah called for the arrest of the video producers, stressing: “We are angry, insulted and sad. Dogs are dirty in Islam….”]
I hope somebody is taking care of the dogs now that she is unavailable. I hope the next person if it turn out to be a Malay muslim, dont post it on YouTube if you really love you dogs
Greed is the number one sin to many, just maybe for Malaysian, arrogance should be up there next to greed eversince GE13.
I pity those dogs and hope someone is taking care of them. This is a reminder to Malay Muslims : PLEASE DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT POST ANY VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE OR FB OF YOU AND YOUR PET DOGS!
Kalau dah bodoh dan bangang sangat, senang cerita tak payah post. Kalau cerdik buat la video yang tak menghina sesiapa atau apa pun! Kalau kita menghina orang ramai, tentulah ramai orang akan marah dengan kita!
Panggil ODIKAL karang marah pulak kan?
What is ODIKAL? Does it mean retard? I’ve been away from Malaysia for so long and I’m not familiar with certain Malay words like macai, for example that I come across in many blogs. Although I come back to Malaysia at least once a year, we (my siblings and I) speak English campur Malay loghat Kelantan.
Odikal is a word I invented. It is acronym for Otak di Kepala Lutut.
The word was inspired by the behaviour of odikal Scissorati who worship at the altar of Jerusubang – picture here.
I have seen the video and I think Chetz should not have made it public.
First there is this penchant of this gen y generation to publish what ever they like. Its like their life is on reality tV ready thinking everyone will like them. The more the people see the better it is. This is where they are utterly knaive and to a large extend dumb. If you want to publish please don’t expect everyone to like it. It is foolish to expect that there’s no adverse reaction. So bear the consequences. Of late there have been many non thinking short sighted video.
Secondly, every Muslims know a dog is not haram and you can touch it if its dry. But you are ignorant if you think Muslims in Malaysia accept dogs to be pet. To many Muslims they avoid dogs. My non Muslims friends even know this. If I visit their house, they will leash their dogs. I don’t mind. But if the dogs come to me I mind. Coz I have to damn bloody samak for nothing. Muslims don’t like this as its a very heavy najis to them. Thus you see most Muslims here in Malaysia don’t keep dogs as pet. In order words, if non Muslims think they can bring their pet dogs to a Muslims house on the ground of care for of animal, I have one thing to say. Go fly kite. You don’t care what we feel. We don’t care what you think. I may even punch that guy. That’s how stupid it is.
Third, just because you like dogs please don’t think others will like them too. Don’t think others cannot be offended. Try empathy. Don’t apply DAP style of thinking they are always right.
Fourthly, I’m telling this straight. She knows that she is pushing the boundary. One she has a pet dog that most Muslims here disagree. Two she mixes wuduk without reference to samak. Then Hari Raya with the dogs and not family human brings. In all probability she knows that Muslims here will find this offensive or disagreeable or be frowned upon. I don’t care if she lives like that though some of you may argue as Muslims I should. But when she published it she must bear the consequence. It may be to her friends or three years ago, but this thing on Internet do go viral at any time. She and lousy argument totally miss the point. It doesn’t matter whether she’s nice just like may be some of the criminals. It matters not what you are. Its the action that you did. Once you publish, you should face the music.
I have no sympathy for her despite being a Muslim when she with intent publishes the video to the world. Her wish for “like” has become anger.
There’s a bigger picture we must learn. We have in the past few years cakap macam there’s no end to ones feeling. Calling non Malays derogatorily as pendatang and Malays racist are insensitive and will provoke retaliation. We don’t do this last time. Don’t use social media to go against this value.
it’s the speed and agility of the religious department and malaysian government (especially police force) charging maznah that amaze me.
non malay and muslim would require more extensive resources and complaints and hardwork to charge them.
oops sorry “non malay would require more extensive resources and complaints and hardwork to charge them”
Re . “it’s the speed and agility of the religious department and malaysian government (especially police force) charging maznah that amaze me.”
I view this as a positive development. I have said before no more nonsense from all sides.
I agree with the sentiment in Lousy.Engineer’s post. I was skimming through Chetz’s youtube channel and noticed that she had a clip of a news report which was about how the sharia council in the UK had issued a fatwa on guide dogs being allowed in mosques.
In the clip it was obvious that the blind boy’s imam was interested in the youth carrying out his religious obligations despite being physically challenged and was accommodating to the dog because of this.
I did not know this being used to the more lurid stories of Islam coming out of the British media. Funny how her love for dogs has helped (in a tiny way) add to the more positive and hopeful narratives of Islam.
Her stint in the lock up negates this of course but such is life.
‘Funny how her love for dogs has helped (in a tiny way) add to the more positive and hopeful narratives of Islam.’
Ignorance is bliss indeed. Hey enough of patronizing Islam will you, as if the religion needs you or your kind to validate its teachings!
Should we start calling Conrad our very own Taliban’s Mullah?
Yea I think we should!!!
With the nonsense you folks sprout, how could you tell the difference.
You sure knows what’s nonsense and what’s not, don’t you!
I do not believe she is insulting Islam. She is compassionate towards animals, nothing insulting. She offended the traditionalist everywhere. I do that everyday
“I do that everyday”
This is a reminder to MYSELF and everyone of us Muslim, that we should reflect the way we live every single day of our lives. The norm that we have might not be the right way, and the right way might not have been our norm. There is a word call “MUHASABAH”
Quote “In reality, to take account of ourselves on an annual basis is not adequate. This is why the Mashā’ikh have advised that a person should do muhāsabah (self-assessment) daily.
The method of making muhāsabah is to allocate time to ponder upon the actions carried out throughout the day. If good was done then thank Allāh and resolve to continue; and if sin was committed then repent and resolve to abstain from repeating the same in the future.”
Shaykh Muhammad Saleem Dhorat ” Unquote.
I emphatize with Maznah, i don’t go through what she’s going through but I know where she’s coming from.
Islam is a noble and merciful religion, but doesn’t mean that every person practicing islam whose a muslim is an angel. There is muslim who keeps dog as pets like her, muslim whose gay (not me) and muslim whose body is 3/4 covered in tattoo. being a muslim keeping a dog or if your sexual preference is of the same sex or you have a passion of tattoo doesn’t make you apostate.
I always go to friday prayers and such and people will give me stares; curious, disgust etc been through it all. People even question me is your solat or your ablution accepted with all these tattoos on my body? I will usually challenge them to provide a verse from quran or a hadith to show me if tattoos would make me apostate or make my solat unacceptable. All of them couldn’t provide me with an answer because there is no such verses in quran or the hadith specifically stating so.
Only “4:119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle’s ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah’s creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest” and a hadith “May Allah curse the women who do tattoos and those for whom tattoos are done, those who pluck their eyebrows and those who file their teeth for the purpose of beautification and alter the creation of Allah.” (al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 5587; Muslim, al-Libaas, 5538).
Nothing specific stating a muslim with tattoos couldn’t solat. But I don’t go around uploading videos of me tattooing my friends (Last time, now I repent) and play the azan in the background and in the video showing the quranic verse and hadith to show that tattoed muslim doesn’t make him apostate and they can solat.
Because I’m staying in Malaysia, I’m aware of the surrounding the majority religion and their sensitivity. There’s also no quranic verses or hadith to show that a lesbian or gay muslim solat is unacceptable. The minority of us muslim within malaysia who has tattoos, keeps dog and is a gay/lesbian doesn’t upload a video like maznah is we know the sensitivity of our fellow malaysian muslim and the consequences.
For maznah, I’ll pray that hopefully you won’t get jail time, just a fine and to my fellow muslim brother and sister, sorry if my posting during this holy month of ramadhan offended you. I have no intention of doing so and my post here is just to make a point of my support for maznah but i don’t agree with her uploading that video whether its done presently, 3 years ago or madonna was still a virgin. Salam.
I am new to this Blog.
I am also lending my support to Maznah.
From Iraq to Malaysia and back to Iraq, Muslims in general are afraid of dogs had treated dogs inhumanly (you run away from them).
It a good thing, her daring non conformist effort.
Yes you are mad. I am not.
We Muslim will have to respect all creatures. We cannot do that is we are afraid for whatever reason. Comments form blogs included.
re: “I am new to this Blog”
Most of my readers are local. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you find your way here from USA?
via OutSyed Blog. I am from the New England. Like to meet you someday in NYC or Boston or BBQ with us in our backyard. You have to announce it in your blog.
Thank you Helen. I wish you well.
“It a good thing, her daring non conformist effort.”
She has produced a video clip that gives perception of insulting Islam. This is the issue in contention and not about her having dogs as pet and having rescued them. Many Muslim Malays here in Malaysia have dog as pet or have rescued them before too.
1. This is one example, though the public has viewed his good deed negatively, still he is not being charged by the authority, since he knows the limit.
“Semua haiwan ini umpama anak- dan saya tidak akan menjual mereka, sebaliknya akan terus membela semuanya sehingga saya mati,” kata Md Azmi Ismail, 55, yang memelihara kira-kira 700 anjing dan lebih 100 kucing yang dikutip bersama isterinya, Halija Idris, 65, dari jalanan.
2. There is another guy, a pet breeder in KL in past he had also posted his Hariraya Photo with his dog, and he was never charged by the authority. I have been to his place before long time ago.
There are many other instances including celebrities and their kids photo with dogs and none has been charged, since they know their limit.
3. Here is Maznah’s case:
“Hasil perbincangan yang dijalankan baru-baru ini, JAKIM memutuskan dan membuat keputusan video klip berkenaan mempunyai unsur yang menghina Islam.”
Do you see the different now? Her act of kindness should be applaud by all, but the video that she produced is an issue based on the Islamic perspective.
Itu sebabnya kita sebagai MUSLIM sentiasa kena belajar, membaca dan menghadiri Majlis Ilmu untuk memahami Islam dengan sebaik mungkin.
I am no SAINT here fyi, I used to be a circuit party boy, lived abroad and frequently travel abroad while working as banker before. Did some nonsense with the thought and attitude of “Tak Apa hanya Dosa Kecil” or ” just plain ignorance” . As time progress I discover and learn new things about Islam that I take for granted before; for example regarding “Puasa” and “Buffet Ramadhan”, at one time having “Buffet Ramadhan” during Ramadhan is almost a daily affair than I realize it defeat the purpose of fasting itself so I stop; or spending time at the gym until right after berbuka puasa while still fasting, while there is nothing wrong with that, It still defeat the spirit of Ramadhan where “AMAL SOLEH” should be your priority in this holly month. There are many other examples.
‘I am also lending my support to Maznah.’
Good for you!
‘From Iraq to Malaysia and back to Iraq, Muslims in general are afraid of dogs had treated dogs inhumanly (you run away from them).’
Do you have statistic or link to back your statement, brother?
‘We Muslim will have to respect all creatures.’
Surely we should, and that applies in respecting other Muslims as well. Right?
MeorUSA, if u skimmed through the comment section u’ll notice Muslims right here have not bear grudge against Maznah for her love of dogs.. Feeding and helping animal of any kind in distress will help even a prostitute to attained heaven. That’s in our tradition.
It is her disrespectful act of insinuating muslim victory prayer call that triggers the reaction. What good of having a passionate respect for animal but failed to respect her fellow human’s feeling. U may call us mad but it’s most unbecoming of you to spit ur insult without even knowing the actual cause of what was going on.
Please do a video of equating pigs with the Torah and make it online in the US if you dare enough & stick hard to ur non conformist approach when anti Semitic label hurled at you .. I dare u to do that.
I bet u ended up having BBQ in Helen’s backyard forever instead of yours.
hafiz noor maaf cakap…memang kalau ada tatoo tidak akan menjadikan orang murtad tapi tatoo itu sudah mengubah kejadian tuhan..hukumnya adalah haram…ko sendiri dah bagi hadis tu kat atas…Allah mengutuk orang yg mengubah kejadiannya walaupun hanya mencabut bulu kening…oh ye..ko kena nasihatkan orang yg ko pernah tatookan tu suruh buang kalau tak ko yg kena jawab bila ko mati nanti…senang cakap..ko yg tanggung dosa mereka selagi mereka tak buang..huhu ko ingat senang ke?
lagi satu pasal gay…memang orang tak jadi murtad tapi sembahyang mereka tidak diterima Allah kecuali kalau mereka insaf…harap faham komen aku..tq
Malays can still tolerate if their race is being ridiculed by non-Malays.
But if you mess with Islam, they will retaliate violently.
If you don’t want them to be irrational, stop messing with Islam.
I hope the non-Muslims learn something today about the Malays.
Yes from what you imply Malay especially Malay Muslim are violent. So lesson to learn: don’t mess with Islam otherwise the Malay will harm you. Is this what you mean? Is this what Islam taught you all that Muslim cannot be rational?
YES YOU HAVE IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.
We will die for Islam, In Syaa Allah.
Then you are not a true Muslim but a fanatic violent ‘terrorist’ who gives a bad name to this beautiful religion.
Are you a Muslim? If not, stop patronizing the religion will you?!
GLAD YOU KNOW THAT. With the kind of CINA BIADAP DAP that we have here in Malaysia. I just can’t help myself to be one.
Re. violent ‘terrorist’ who gives a bad name to this beautiful religion.
I can’t help but to read your statement with DR OKM wearing Sokong image in mind.
How a non Muslim knows what a true Muslim is beyond even a simpleton’s comprehension!
Ini a classic case of bodoh tak boleh diajar.
You’ll be truly appalled if you were to read some of the comments in RPK’s blog from non-Muslims on Islam. They act as though they are more knowledgeable than us, the Muslims and even dare to advice what the Muslims should do and should not.
It happens when their evangelista leaders like Hannah Yeoh is photographed in the mosque many more times than the entire supreme council of Wanita Umno combined with the office holders of Dewan Muslimah PAS.
And then there are other evangelista MPs like Ong Kian Ming who has won the top prize for tweeting #sahur the most times and ending every sentence with “Insya Allah”.
Hence arises the phenomenon of “some of the comments in RPK’s blog from non-Muslims on Islam. They act as though they are more knowledgeable than us, the Muslims and even dare to advice what the Muslims should do and should not”.
First they mock our believe system. Then the say it was not meant at all to be insulting and then they will patronize us and the Religion by telling us that we are not a good Muslim by saying things like giving the beautiful religion a bad name!
They don’t even believe in the Religion, yet they are telling us that we don’t walk the talk. This is downright insulting but hey we gotta keep our cool. I say we should havd enough of this bullshit already. I never felt guilty telling off these people. They had insulted my Religion, what is there left to consider?
Don’t you feel more insulted that PAS is enabling the evangelista shenanigans that you’re complaining about dan bukan setakat itu sahaja tetapi parti itu nampaknya tidak bersungguh-sungguh mempertahankan kalimah Allah.
If you’re such a hero in protecting Islam, why not tackle PAS that has been flip-flopping on the Allah issue? Isn’t the kalimah Allah worth your defending from PAS’s collusion with the evangelical DAP and their agenda and ambitions?
We did attack PAS on the issue of flip flopping on Kalimah Allah’s. But we’ve done it somewhere else. Secara tertutup.
The fact that u didn/t notice that was merely becoz some of us here, don’t want to expose the friction we have with them to the world. We debated, scrutinized and hurled critics at PAS until they were forced out of the image that they are now no longer seen as Islam protector and torch bearer..
Sekarang PAS sudah dihantar semakin dekat ke lubang kubur jika masih tak mahu tangani isu kalimah Allah dengan serius. Most of the Muslims only taking sides with siapa2 saja yg dilihat sbg serius mahu mempertahankan Islam tetapi dlm masa yg sama tidak menindas hak-hak manusia lain yg bukan Islam.
Jika tidak, tentu sahaja PAS tidak digelarkan sebagai keldai tunggangan evangelista DAP oleh majoriti Melayu Muslim.
Most of kami adalah non partisan, bukan penjilat PAS mahu pun UMNO.. kami hanya mahu negara ini aman, damai serta Islam dihormati pada kedudukan yang sepatutnya dan bukan diperkotak-katikkan.
Semua kekecohan yg berlaku ni tak akan bermula jika x ada yg cuba mencetusnya. Kami lihat DAP cenderung dgn MO mahu kerajaan dilihat menindas org bukan Islam dgn mencetuskan isu2 sensitif sehingga org2 Islam mendesak pemerintah jalankan undang2 sediada. Dia mahu government terperangkap dlm catch 22.
Kita boleh lihat semua ni bila melihat PAS diam dlm isu2 sensitif. Kami tahu semua ini dirancangkan tetapi undang2 tetap perlu dijalankan supaya ia tak lebih merebak. Tindakan diambil bukan kerana mahu tindakan diambil, ia supaya mencegah kesudahan yg lebih parah bila level kemarahan kedua2pihak tak terbendung.
Ia supaya sampaikan mesej kpd yg tak tahu gunakan tanggungjawab kebebasan bersuara supaya faham bhw setiap tindakan salah ada repersussionnya. Itu sahaja Helen.
re: “We debated, scrutinized and hurled critics at PAS until they were forced out of the image that they are now no longer seen as Islam protector and torch bearer.”
I wish more would debate, scrutinize and hurl criticism at DAP until they are forced out of the image that they will then no longer seen as Chinese protector and torch bearer.
It is not true that DAP has the interests of the Chinese community at heart.
What is prioritized by DAP are the interests of the Lim dynasty and their cronies and the interests the warlords and their evengelista coterie.
Re”What is prioritized by DAP are the interests of the Lim dynasty and their cronies and the interests the warlords and their evengelista coterie.”
Well I agree with this but it also applies to UMNO. PAS is a whole other problem.
Kinda convoluted when you get down to thinking of it.
(1) Umno proudly has ‘Malay’ in its name — the United Malay National Organisation. So the general public doesn’t really expect Umno to defend the interests of the non-Malay races. (The communal bargaining is done via BN.)
(2) DAP doesn’t have any race in its party name yet it is widely perceived to defend the interests of the Chinese.
(3) With the DAP 3.0, it is the evangelical Christian faction that is steering the ship.
As I have pointed out before, to the best of my knowledge, all the bevy of Personal Assistants hired by Hannah Yeoh are committed Christians like her. Some of them are Indians.
Excluded from snagging a job as a Hannah Yeoh personal assistant are the non-Christians. This has been her practise in her Adun office.
She is now Speaker of the Dewan.
What will be DAP’s practice if they take over the country? Have a tokenism show of a few Malay faces as window dressing?
Lim Guan Eng runs through Malay deputy chief ministers like one changes diapers. Does this trend show that the DAP evangelistas are genuinely interested in sharing power?
[Quote: I wish more would debate, scrutinize and hurl criticism at DAP until they are forced out of the image that they will then no longer seen as Chinese protector and torch bearer.]
This is a little harsh. :)
Prior to 2008, DAP had always been known as the Chinese Opposition party Chinese voted for in their dun as a watchdog. To sound the alarm and highlight any hanky panky stuffs by the ruling party. DAP fulfilled their end of the bargain and true enough kept the rakyat informed of any ‘misdeeds’ through the years when internet was sci-fi.
DAP was the small voice of opposition in Parliament, sent there on mission by the Chinese/Indians, to make some noise, though not under any illusion it could make a difference against the mighty BN, but still, having DAP there somehow is symbolic and reassuring to the minority as being heard.
Come today, DAP is still faithfully doing what they did all these years – making noise. While in those days DAP rep are few and their voice small, come today the small noise had somehow turned into a roar, boosted by its sheer numbers. That irritated some and unsettled others.
The sad part for DAP IMHO is they had grown in numbers, but they had failed to grow as a party. DAP had not fully utilize their current position to its full potential. They could be constructive and efficient in serving the rakyat, they could prove to everyone they had evolved from a mere watchdog and is now ready for bigger role.
It is sad DAP still choose to dwell in the past and pick petty fights.
Noticed that I made a typo. It should read “they will then no longer BE seen Chinese protector and torch bearer”.
Of course what you say is true. That’s why I voted DAP in the past, and up to 2008.
However since DAP never had power, we didn’t know their mettle.
Abraham Lincoln quote: “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.”
In adverse times, the DAP was indeed a comfort to the Chinese in just knowing that the party MPs are there as a watchdog on the government.
But now that the DAP are the government in Penang and the leading coalition partner in Selangor and marshalling the march to PutrajayaGE14, I see that they handle power badly.
An analogy: It’s like a poor man suddenly winning the lottery. With the such windfall landing in his lap that he’s never had before in all his life, he spends the money badly. e.g. http://www.businessinsider.com/17-lottery-winners-who-blew-it-all-2013-5?op=1
Whereas a rich man who has had luxuries all his life, while he may have some excesses and spendthrift ways but nonetheless he doesn’t suddenly go stir crazy with getting his hands on big money because he is already used to handling money.
Take Najib who is Keturunan Orang Kaya Indera Shahbandar Pahang. He handled himself with a certain graciousness when the DAP fans stepped on his photo, incessantly hurl fitnah and abuse at his wife (this from all quarters regardless of race and party affiliation) and family, gave him really nasty nicknames and unceasingly insulting him despite all his Chinese-friendly overtures. Even after he blurted out “Chinese tsunami”, he’s just gone all quiet instead of throwing a temper tantrum.
Guan Eng on the other hand wears his emperor’s cloak ill-fittingly seperti kaduk naik junjung. He handles himself like a samseng (“streetfighter” is the word that many senior BN politicians have employed) coupled with the mean pettiness emulated by his cybertrooper army and his hatchet men (bloggers and commenters).
Finally u find the root cause of the problem. The problem is the perception that the Chinese have on DAP. As if DAP is the long awaited Messiah that’ll catapult their position to real power. The DAP have the mechanism that has worked for decades in portraying MCA as the UMNO lackey. With Goebbelsian principle as their MO to the Chinese and by having PAS to create Halo Effect to gain support from the Muslims, they planned to take over Malaysia in GE 13. Unlucky for them, Muslims support towards PAS has deteriorated since. That proves that we have done our job. Anuar Ibrahim is no longer a pulling factor, but we have be very careful with the rise of Duktur MAZA. He is destined to replace Anuar as Anuar 2.0. Mark my words Helen.
Once the Chinese could be lead to understand that they are just the stepping stone for the Lim Dynasty and evangelista coterie, and bleached the DAP off their color that power is within their reach, then only some progress could be made. But with the MCA currently in the position that u always portray here, everybody with the logic mind still intact will view the effort as near impossible, unless more & more vocal anti DAP Chinese enters the Mandarin speaking blogger-sphere, twitter & fb, correcting their perception with enthusiastic approach. Yes.. u may need to enter it with thick armor. Sun Tzu once said :
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle”
re: “to create Halo Effect to gain support from the Muslims”
Aside from the endless #sahur tweets, some DAP evangelist politikus go the extent of …
You have no idea how much I hated them for the things they did with their secular cohorts and at the same time having the guts to tell the Malays that UMNO was lesser Muslims. Apparently the Malays sees it well and choose to turn their back on PAS, which made me glad. PAS members can still be saved. Definitively not their god complex ulamaks and their kakis!
Allah issue, DUMC and many others had made me shy away from PAS. I have a love and hate relationship with UMNO, I still does. The difference is I was proud to be telling people that PAS has been consistent with its agenda, then. Surely this is no longer so, once they made a pact with ‘setan’ after GE12.
AS is a lot worse than UMNO because they claimed to be an Islamic party. Apparently their perjuangan since GE12 is nothing but lillahiputrajaya. These can be seen in the sayings and actions made by some of their party leaders and so called ulamaks.
I become UMNO friendly due to this. Anwar is a gone case for me. But at times I felt no quilt whatsoever when picking on Najib and UMNO. I have my eyes now on Perkasa and ISMA.
[Quote: Take Najib who is Keturunan Orang Kaya Indera Shahbandar Pahang. He handled himself with a certain graciousness when the DAP fans stepped on his photo, incessantly hurl fitnah and abuse ]
I totally agree with your assessment on Najib. Even Rosmah has my respect for keeping silent when all accusations were hurled at her. Through it all, Najib and wife showed exceptional grace and composure.
But that is the thing! Eloquence and graciousness don’t sell, at least not here in Malaysia. The Malays are calling Najib weak and
the hardline keris waving Perkasa- type is viewed as the true Malay defender.
On the opposite side, LGE is fulfilling his role as the Chinese defender, ready to kick some ass in his emperor garb. Just because his audience asked for it.
At the end of the day, I do question the maturity of our voters. The standard of politicians are in direct correlation to their supporters. It is apparent politicians twist and turn to conform to the whims of his voters.
cjb dumb…let me rephrase it 4 you..you may ridicule us melayu bodoh but dont ridicule our religion and faith…we may retaliate like 13th may if u wish…orang islam tidak akan membiarkan agamanya dihina..cuba kalau agama ko dipermainkan..marah tak? sudah tentu ko marah..takkan nak senyum pulak…so jangan marah kalau aku panggil ko stupid..
My fellow muslims, cuba kita fikirkan bersama:
1. Video ni dah 3 tahun dulu.. kenapa sekarang baru kita nak emosi?
2. Anjing maybe haram pada org melayu, tidak haram pada org Islam di bahagian lain di dunia ..
3. Salah dia hanyalah tidak sensitif. Nak kena penjara ka ?
4. Does she deserve to be in prison hanya kerna kita sendiri tidak faham agama kita.
5. Show me dimana Najis nya airliur anjing..kalau anjing buruan yg menangkap binatang buruan bisa saja kita makan daging nya dengan menyebut nama Allah?
1. Video ni dah 3 tahun dulu.. kenapa sekarang baru kita nak emosi?
Dia ada hak buat video. Saya ada hak untuk respon kepada video yang dibuat dan tayangkan kepada umum. Saya baru tengok dan rasa terganggu. Adakah saya tidak hak untuk berasa begitu kerana video ini sudah tiga tahun lama? Kalau orang curi kereta Mamu, lepas tiga tahun sudah tak boleh ambik balik ka? Yenna Pa?
2. Anjing maybe haram pada org melayu, tidak haram pada org Islam di bahagian lain di dunia ..
Apa pasal pulak kita nak fikir perasaan orang lain setiap kali kita uruskan keadaan di negara kita? Yang buat video ni orang melayu. Yang marah dan beremosi pun orang melayu, Sejak bila pula kita kena orang Islam lain di dunia untuk ukur parameter sensitiviti kita sendiri?! Orang Islam mana kita nak ikut Mamu? Timbuktu ka? Parsi ka? Mamu kalau A kacau you, you tunggu D marah A baru you marah A ka? Peningkan?!
3. Salah dia hanyalah tidak sensitif. Nak kena penjara ka ?
Itu you punya pendapat Mamu. Takkan semua orang nak kena sependapat dengan you. Mana boleh sama pendapat. Undang-undang pun ada lain pendapat. Orang curi duit you mungkin you maafkan. Lain orang dia suruh itu pencuri ganti dia punya duit. Lain padang lain belalang la!
4. Does she deserve to be in prison hanya kerna kita sendiri tidak faham agama kita.
Siapa kata? Siapa yang tak faham agama? Agama kita yang mana? Kita tak faham ka, kami yang tak faham? Ka Mamu yang tak faham? Ka saya yang salah faham Mamu?
5. Show me dimana Najis nya airliur anjing..kalau anjing buruan yg menangkap binatang buruan bisa saja kita makan daging nya dengan menyebut nama Allah?
Mamu pernah dengaq pasal ayaq dak? Rumah Mamu takdak ayaq ka? Mamu kat mana, Tanjong ka, Little India ka?
Salam saudara Islam1 & other Muslims,
Di bulan Ramadhan yang mulia ni cuba renung2kan… apa agaknya reaction & cara Rasulullah SAW menangani perkara ini?? Kalau kita rasa kita dah cukup faham Islam, tak pe lah…
Boleh perjelaskan ke tak, bagaimana agaknya cara yang syumul dan terbaik untuk selesaikan masalah ini sesama Muslim?
Pada pandangan tuan, bagaimanakah patut kita semua hadapi perkara ini supaya penghinaan kepada Islam dapat dihentikan dan kafir zimmi tidak menjadi mangsa permainan sesetengah musuh Islam dan muslim?
Rasullulah SAW sudah wafat, saya tak mahu babitkan nama baginda dalam hal sebegini, saya kurang arif bagaimana agaknya baginda akan menyelesaikan permasalahan ini, boleh tuan perincikan dengan jelas dan terang supaya fitnah akhir zaman seperti ini dapat dihentikan?
Tak sabar nak belajar daripada tuan?
tak sabar tunggu kelas Syeikh Baharudinferidah… klu naik feri pergi kelas baharudinferidah pun aku sanggup.. bila nak start ni?
Salam Sdra. Islam1st,
1st, Sdri Helen minta izin guna blog you to discuss this topic; you’ve been generous to allow us Muslims to share your blog space…
Memang tidak dapat dinafikan banyak penghinaan telah dibuat terhadap Islam/Muslims since 9/11 incident… saya tidak nafikan naturally Muslims would react, as they say, for every action there will be a reaction.
Question is, HOW do we Muslims SHOULD react?
Adakah macam Muslims di Bangladesh & Pakistan yang merusuh tak tentu pasal, bertempur dengan polis (yang juga Muslim) sampai ramai yang mati (harap nya mati shahid lah inshaAllah), sedangkan the perpetrators tak kena apa2, bahkan ketawa giler tenguk telatah Muslims? Is this the recommended way to show our love for the Prophet (SAW) & Islam? I DON’T think so. In fact, we played right into the script of musuh2 Islam… they know how the majority of Muslims will react, to their own detriment… depa tak apa2 pun…
Dalam hal ini, the “alleged perpetrator”, Cik Maznah, is a MUSLIM (tak payah lah nak campur urusan Allah as to her level of iman etc., its none of our business), so kalau ya pun kita rasa dia insult Islam (which I don’t think so, maybe “insulting” to those overly sensitive Muslims, that’s their right lah, maybe tahap iman dia orang memang teramat tinggi?), there is a better way of handling it, e.g. get her to a dialogue and get her to see the alternative points of view, and then let her decide lah which is a better way… tak perlu lah polis/Jakim menyibuk tangkap dia masuk lokap, etc. ni dah over-reaction tak pasal2…
Satu lagi saya teringat kisah sahih Rasulullah zaman kita kecik2 dulu kan? Ada jiran Yahudi baginda yang sakit hati sampai tiap2 hari kerja dia lambak sampah/duri kat pintu rumah baginda… macam tak de kerja lain; tapi Rasulullah buang sampah/duri tu tiap2 kali tanpa complain pun (kalau kita dengan keadaan kita di Malaysia sekarang gamaknya dah ada yang kena tembak?).. sampai satu hari Rasulullah tenguk tak ada sampah/duri depan pintu rumah, so baginda tanya khabar tentang jiran dia tu dan di beritahu yang jiran dia tu saki tak dapat nak buat “kerja” dia tu… bila jiran dia dapat tahu Rasulullah bertanyakan berita dia, subhanallah! Allah buka pinti iman dia & dia masuk Islam.
Jadi renung2lah cerita ni dalam context Cik Maznah & anjing2nya… you may disagree with me, but what the heck, people believe in what they want to be believe kan, its your right… itulah Sdra Islam1st, nothing brilliant, just a reminder for you, itu pun kalau nak dengar lah kan…
‘Adakah macam Muslims di Bangladesh & Pakistan yang merusuh tak tentu pasal, bertempur dengan polis (yang juga Muslim) sampai ramai yang mati (harap nya mati shahid lah inshaAllah), sedangkan the perpetrators tak kena apa2, bahkan ketawa giler tenguk telatah Muslims? Is this the recommended way to show our love for the Prophet (SAW) & Islam? I DON’T think so. In fact, we played right into the script of musuh2 Islam… they know how the majority of Muslims will react, to their own detriment… depa tak apa2 pun…’
Saya tau, kalau saudara ada baca thread saya dan blog saya. Saudara akan tau yang saya amatlah tidak pernah galakkan keganasan seperti yang saudara suka quotekan. Bangladesh dan Pakistan.
‘Dalam hal ini, the “alleged perpetrator”, Cik Maznah, is a MUSLIM (tak payah lah nak campur urusan Allah as to her level of iman etc., its none of our business), so kalau ya pun kita rasa dia insult Islam (which I don’t think so, maybe “insulting” to those overly sensitive Muslims, that’s their right lah, maybe tahap iman dia orang memang teramat tinggi?), there is a better way of handling it, e.g. get her to a dialogue and get her to see the alternative points of view, and then let her decide lah which is a better way… tak perlu lah polis/Jakim menyibuk tangkap dia masuk lokap, etc. ni dah over-reaction tak pasal2…’
Iman dia, dia punya pasal. Takdak siapapun hina dia berkenaan dengan kegiatan pengkid dia. Tapi orang marah dan terasa hati sebab VIDEO DIA. CARA DIA BUAT VIDEO DIA. CONTENT VIDEO DIA. ITU SAJA. Dan kalau dia berhak buat video. Dan saudara berhak untuk defend dia. Yang lain juga berhak untuk rasa terhina dan tersinggung. Jakim/polis lakukan tugas mereka. Nanti orang fitnah makan gaji buta pulak. Siapa pulak saudara nak halang depa jalankan tugas depa? Siapa pulak saudara nak nafikan undang-undang yang telah termaktub? Kita bukan haiwan, hidup kita ada undang-undang. Kalau tidak ada tindakan dikenakan, macam mana saudara rasa fitnah yang akan dihamburkan oleh masyarakat bukan Islam kepada Islam dan Muslim kerana practice double standard? Saudara pun setuju banyak sangat Islam kena fitnah. Kan?
‘Satu lagi saya teringat kisah sahih Rasulullah zaman kita kecik2 dulu kan? Ada jiran Yahudi baginda yang sakit hati sampai tiap2 hari kerja dia lambak sampah/duri kat pintu rumah baginda… macam tak de kerja lain; tapi Rasulullah buang sampah/duri tu tiap2 kali tanpa complain pun (kalau kita dengan keadaan kita di Malaysia sekarang gamaknya dah ada yang kena tembak?).. sampai satu hari Rasulullah tenguk tak ada sampah/duri depan pintu rumah, so baginda tanya khabar tentang jiran dia tu dan di beritahu yang jiran dia tu saki tak dapat nak buat “kerja” dia tu… bila jiran dia dapat tahu Rasulullah bertanyakan berita dia, subhanallah! Allah buka pinti iman dia & dia masuk Islam.’
Subhanallah saya pun ingat cerita ni. tapi tak payahlah saudara nak jadi batu api dan fitnah kata kat Malaysia mungkin ada yang kena tembak. Saudara selalu balik Bangladesh dan Pakistan ka?!
‘Jadi renung2lah cerita ni dalam context Cik Maznah & anjing2nya… you may disagree with me, but what the heck, people believe in what they want to be believe kan, its your right… itulah Sdra Islam1st, nothing brilliant, just a reminder for you, itu pun kalau nak dengar lah kan…’
Dah saudara post kat thread saya (saya dok tunggu MamuWed ni, rumah dia takdak ayaq kut..), terpaksalah saya jawab. Saya nak ikut tak berapa nak dengaq, tapi dah baca terpaksa lah respon, sama macam orang lain respon video anjing Maznah.
Tapi saya pun tau, dan faham pasal kalau orang tu nak faham cara dia sorang ja faham benda tu, memang boleh. Memang kita ni manusia lemah, tak dapat buat apapun. Bagus dakwah saudara, tapi kalau boleh toksahlah sampai fitnah dan hina penduduk Bangladesh dan Pakistan lebih-lebih. Saudara mungkin faham dan arif. Tapi takut yang lain, yang kurang faham, pikiaq yang bukan-bukan plak. Ya dak?
re: “Jakim/polis lakukan tugas mereka. Nanti orang fitnah makan gaji buta pulak.”
The Islamic bureaucracy and enforcement apparatus in Malaysia is getting too big. Got all these pegawai-pegawai Jabatan Agama, in order to earn their gaji bulanan, nanti tiap-tiap hari mungkin ada kuota kena tangkap Muslim yang buat ni salah, buat tu salah.
“in order to earn their gaji bulanan, nanti tiap-tiap hari mungkin ada kuota kena tangkap Muslim yang buat ni salah, buat tu salah.”
Shouldn’t it be that way?
I was somewhere in B Bintang meeting my friend at her shop today and saw so many Malay Boys yang tak puasa dan makan dikhalayak ramai. What a disgrace. Dah tak puasa tu satu hal, memalukan bangsa dan agama sendiri tu satu hal pulak.
Couldn’t agree more with you… kena lah justify kan, and KPI dia mungkin include numbers of arrest. etc… kalau tak nanti tok menteri nampak tak perform pulak… now isu Shi’ah pulak… as though tak ada more pressing issues facing the Muslims in Malaysia… its as though Shi’ah is not a Muslim sect & more dangerous in Malaysia than buang bayi. sumbang mahram, drug addictions, merempit, corruption, etc., etc… I wonder what criteria these people use to rank their priorities…?
Anyway, cakap lebih2 nanti kena black list pulak… or kena tuduh anti Islam? That’s the state of Muslim/Islam in good ol Malaysia nowadays…
Salam Sdra. Islam1st,
“Bagus dakwah saudara, tapi kalau boleh toksahlah sampai fitnah dan hina penduduk Bangladesh dan Pakistan lebih-lebih.”
Saya tak berniat nak fitnah & hina penduduk Bangladesh & Pakistan lebih2, saya cuma highlight kan apa yang saya lihat dalam Al Jazeera, etc. (hopefully accurate reportinglah) dimana penduduk2 Bangladesh & Pakistan merusuh dalam banyak isu2 yang membabitkan Islam, e.g. kartoon Nabi di Denmark, sampai berpuluh orang & polis mati, dll… agaknya depa ni tersangat sayang pada Rasulullah & Islam sampai sanggup buat perkara2 tersebut… cuma kadang2 tu saya pikir alang2 nak mati, biarlah kita mati sama dengan musuh2 Islam, tak lah mati sendirian begitu saja… juga bab mengebom masjid Shi’ah yang menjadi2 di Pakistan… seolah2 Shi’ah tu dah bukan Islam bahkan lebih bahaya dari Jews & American (military lah bukan orang awam).., dll. Tak tahulah saya depa dok pikiaq apa gamaknya… mungkin ilmu depa lagi dalam…
“.. tak payahlah saudara nak jadi batu api dan fitnah kata kat Malaysia mungkin ada yang kena tembak. Saudara selalu balik Bangladesh dan Pakistan ka?!”
Tak ada niat nak jadi batu api, cuma dok tenguk/dengar banyak kes orang kena tembak di Malaysia sekarang ni… gaduh sikit dah tembak menembak macam kat US pulak… tak tahulah kot berita ni tak sahih? Balik Bangladesh/Pakistan tu tak lah, cuma rely on berita Al Jazeera, BBC & CNN… tak tahulah kot depa buat fitnah report yang tak betul… maybe kena pegi tenguk sendiri kot?
Conclusion nya: Tak pe lah kita berdakwah ikut cara & kebolehan masing2… sdra. teruskan lah berdakwah menegakkan pandangan sdra. tu… moga2 ramai yang yakin dan menerima dakwah sdra. dalam hal Cik Maznah & anjing2nya… teringat pulak cerita Si Luncai dengan labu2 nya… wassalam.
Aiseymen.. more & more ‘Holier than Thou’ comments enter the debate.. Wow..
1) Pakistan bla bla bla…
Apakah Muslim di sini ambil reaction mcm tu? tlg jgn pergi overboard ok.
2) Maznah the ‘Alledged Perpetrator’..
Komen dibuat dalam tahun 1940 ke Baharudin? Kan dia mengaku dia yg buat?
3) Love the Yahudi..
Itu tindakan Ad Hominem kpd Rasulullah s.a.w. Baginda memilih utk tidak ambil apa-apa tindakan. Ada kes jika melampau, baginda akan ambil tindakan. Tp. penghinaan Yahudi ke atas Islam, Rasulullah wage war & hunt them down to their very last fort in Arabia, Khaibar. Sebab penghinaan atas Islam-lah, Rasulullah s.a.w pesan dengan wasiat terakhir berikut :
Dari Umar r.a., bahawasanya is mendengar Rasulullah s.a.w. bersabda : “Sungguh, akan aku usir orang Yahudi dan Nasrani dari bumi Arab sehingga tidak tertinggal kecuali Muslim”. (Riwayat Muslim)
Lain kali nak komen dan quote peristiwa dlm Islam, make sure kena dgn context. Boleh tak? Unless kalau nak terjun dgn luncai dan labu-labunya.
Salam Sdra. Metatron (ni sounds like nama dalam Transformer je?),
“Holier than thou” comments? – sorry lah if it sounded as such to you; niat tak de lah macam tu, saya cuma cuba berdebat ikut garis yang saya rasa decent & reasonable lah…
“Apakah Muslim di sini ambil reaction mcm tu? tlg jgn pergi overboard ok.”
>>Kalau tak silap ingatan saya, dah ada kes bakar church kat Malaya & kes kepala khinzir di masjid, etc., so sounds to me people from both sides did go overboard, and kalau tak dikawal, more will join the fray, free for all? And things can get worse?
“Komen dibuat dalam tahun 1940 ke Baharudin? Kan dia mengaku dia yg buat?”
>> Interesting, your style sounds like debate waktu saya sekolah rendah dolu2… anyway, saya guna “alleged perpetrator” sebab kita yang buat judgement yang dia silap, kalau dia awal2 mengaku silap, mungkin dia tak upload video tu kot? That’s my thinking lah, so maybe “technically” saya silap? Maybe from legal point of view la kot? Sorry lah kalau you practicing loyar, saya tersilap teknikal…
“Itu tindakan Ad Hominem kpd Rasulullah s.a.w. Baginda memilih utk tidak ambil apa-apa tindakan. Ada kes jika melampau, baginda akan ambil tindakan. Tp. penghinaan Yahudi ke atas Islam, Rasulullah wage war & hunt them down to their very last fort in Arabia, Khaibar. Sebab penghinaan atas Islam-lah, Rasulullah s.a.w pesan dengan wasiat terakhir berikut :
Dari Umar r.a., bahawasanya is mendengar Rasulullah s.a.w. bersabda : “Sungguh, akan aku usir orang Yahudi dan Nasrani dari bumi Arab sehingga tidak tertinggal kecuali Muslim”. (Riwayat Muslim)
>> Amat2 setuju dgn sdra., cuma kalau tak silap saya, since you kata “kena make sure kena dgn context”, hadith yang you quote tu refers to peristiwa dimana kabilah2 Yahudi tersebut BELOT dan pecah perjanjian yang mereka buat dengan Rasululllah SAW dan orang2 Islam, dan menyokong pihak musuh dalam peperangan Ahzaab dll., so that was the reason Rasulullah SAW cakap macam tu, its NOT simply penghinaan Yahudi atas orang2 Islam, tapi belot… (also please refer to Verses 24-27, Surah Al-Ahzab)
Lain kali nak komen dan quote peristiwa dlm Islam, make sure kena dgn context. Boleh tak? Unless kalau nak terjun dgn luncai dan labu-labunya.
>> Rasanya saya dah bagi context seperti diatas. Principle nya kalau tak silap saya lah, musuh Islam hina, kita pun boleh hina, an eye for an eye, BUT as you rightly said lah, DON’T GO OVERBOARD… sayang nya pada pandangan saya MAJORITY of Muslims dah go over board & over emo on a LOT of issues… sampai tak kena pada tempat nya… macam lah kes Cik Maznah dengan anjing2nya nih… its a small matter, banyak lagi benda yang lebih penting yang di hadapi oleh umat Islam akhir zaman ni… cerita si Luncai tu banyak pengajaran nya… wallahu’alam… selamat tuan Metatron..
1) Bakar gereja
Kes yg berlaku melibatkan reaksi kepada tindakan yg tidak sepatutnya oleh bukan Islam. Satu dua kes, tidak menggambarkan majoriti keseluruhan sifat dan kecenderungan Muslim di Malaysia.
2) Komen budak2..
Kan saya dah cakap, ur condescending tone dan cara saudara menunjukkan saudara berada di dalam kategori sentiasa melihat diri sebagai “Holier than thou’.
3) Love the Yahudi..
Hadis tu, wasiat terakhir.. Konteks dan di mana ia diucapkan ialah di dalam bilik Rasulullah s.a.w. semasa beginda hampir wafat. It summed up apa yang Yahudi lakukan kepada Islam. Penghinaan, sabotaj luar dan dalam dan langgar Piagam Madinah yg berupa Perlembagaan Pertama dunia. Apa mrk ini tidak melanggar Perlembagaan Malaysia dgn menimbulkan rasa tidak senang antara penduduk Islam dan bukan Islam? Bukankah dalam perlembagaan persekutuan meletakkan hak bersuara terikat dgn syarat-syarat tertentu? Tak perlu divert issue ni, konteks hadis yg digunakan saudara sebelum ini, tidak mencerminkan apa yg sedang berlaku pd ketika ini. Nice try.
4) Lagi banyak benda penting dr fokus isu maznah..
Mmg ada byk benda penting.. tapi Islam tak mengajar kita fokus kepada benda lain dan buat pekak kepada benda yg sedang dihadapi dihadapan muka.
Contoh, Sorang laki bernama En. Bahari (Bukan nama sebenar) tengok nenek dia dirogol, En. Bahari tak berbuat apa-apa sebab bagi dia nenek dia dirogol merupakan satu isu kecil jika dibandingkan gejala rasuah yang menimpa negara. En. Bahar berfikir2 nak pergi SPRM utk membuat laporan terhadap pemimpin rasuah. Akhirnya, sembilan bulan kemudian En. Bahar mendapat seorang Pak Cik baru.
Come on la.. tak payah dumbing down kat sini. OK?
My view is Rasulullah SAW would treat this as a non-issue. (If I’m not mistaken, he was known as an animal lover himself). He would even complemented Chetz for showing her kindness and compassion towards the less unfortunates i.e. the stray dogs. He would also reprimanded the Muslims i.e. the Malays not to be irrational and over sensitive.
Agreed with you view. But the issue under Contention here is that the video that she produced has given the perception of “MEMPERSENDAKAN ISLAM”.
Follow the program will you….
Hearsay. Stop hijacking the Prophet of Islam will you?!
Last time I heard people putting his idea & whimsical thought in Rasulullah s.a.w. mouth, they called him Abuya Ashaari.. he is no longer here, perhaps u could filled up the jawatan kosong.
Salam Tuan Anon 11:27 pm,
“You can’t see the forest for the trees”, as the saying goes… Muslims nowadays seronok dengan pokok sampai lupa forest, the bigger picture… tak pe lah some prefer to spend their time on the trees and forget the forest, apa nak buat kan? Kita cakap pasal akhlak Rasulullah yang universal dah jadi out of topic pulak, tak pe lah, bagi depa2 yang gah ni go ahead…
RE. “tak pe lah some prefer to spend their time on the trees and forget the forest, apa nak buat kan?”
I understand what you trying to say here. Tapi sebagai seorang Muslim kita bertanggungjawab mengingati dan berdakwah antara satu sama lain. If you have “Ilmu” yang boleh dikongsi harap turunkan disini, ingat surah Al Asr:
Sesungguhnya manusia itu dalam kerugian
Kecuali orang-orang yang beriman dan beramal soleh,
dan mereka pula berpesan-pesan dengan kebenaran serta berpesan-pesan dengan sabar.
Note: Kalau kita tak berani atau melatah dengan komentar-komentar dalam blog ini, bagaimana pula bila kita diberi ujian yang lebih besar nanti pula?
Salam Sdra LOL,
Yes, “berpesan2 dengan kebenaran dan berpesan2 dengan sabar”… , and “sabar” tu termasuk lah perkataan & bahasa yang kita gunakan dalam berbahas… you said it right on the nail, so I leave it at that…
Sabar itu ada tahap2 tindakan yg bersesuain Syeik Baharuddin.. tlg jgn dumbing down here as if the rest that are not ‘holier than thou’ x faham pasal tahap2 sabar.. kalau mcm tu u r insulting the Quran itself for not having a syumul approach towards every level of action & reaction from the smallest degree to the highest..
Apakah Muslim di sini menuntut dia disembelih? Tidak bukan? Mrk hanya menuntut supaya mana2 undang2 sediada digunakan untuk menghentikan semua ini. Tp. malangnya ramai muslim mcm En. Bhaarudin melihat Maznah ini hanya sekadar sebatang pokok tetapi gagal melihat hutan (consequenses) yg lebih besar jika tak diambil tindakan.
Baharudinferidahpidah 2 biji telur
Salam pada Sdra2 Metatron & Islam1st,
Nampaknya tak kemana debat kita… interesting you guna word “syumul”… reminded me of my abim days 30++ years ago… tak pe lah you go ahead with your semangat & effort, semoga Allah memberkati perjuangan saudara2 berdua… selamat menghayati Ramadhan.
Selamat menghayati Ramadan kepada anda juga.
Cakap pasal ABIM, dulu masa sekolah kat SMTTARP, selalu lalu pejabat ABIM, masa pi dan balik sekolah. Setiap masa lalu, asyik dok perhati banglo tu, sebab minat nak join ABIM berkobar-kobar masa tu. Tapi masa tu baru sekolah menengah, mana boleh join. Lama-lama perasaan tu mati macam tu saja, bila sambung belajar kat lain negeri.
Lani, baru sedar pasaipa Allah SWT tak ‘izinkan’ masuk ABIM dulu. Alhamdullilah.
Cuba ceritakan apakah tindakan terbaik untuk menangani kes ini dari padangan anda? Manalah tahu ianya dapat membuka mata kita semua ini yang masih jahil dalam banyak hal.
Jangan ingat ini satu sindiran kerana komen saya sendiri yang keterlaluan pun telah dipadam oleh Helen yang bukan Islam, dan saya tidak berkecil hati atau marah kerana itu memang patut dilakukan.
Re. “reminded me of my abim days 30++ years ago”
The more you have to share your knowledge and experience with us. Anyway since it is Ramadhan I won’t say much about certain personality in ABIM that ………..(ini pun dah kira mengumpat).
Satu sikap sesetengah insan yang dalam Ilmu Agama yang tidak saya senangi ini adalah mereka suka berkata “itu dosa, ini dosa, itu salah, ini salah” tapi mereka sering terlupa untuk terus mengajar mereka mereka yang jahil untuk memperbaiki diri. Contohnya tidak lama dulu ada seorang ustaz/imam menceritakan tentang seorang lelaki yang masuk ke tandas di Masjid dengan membiarkan kaki seluarnya meleret ke lantai yang sudah tentunya akan terkena najis/kotoran; dari apa yand diceritakan beliau hanya membiarkan saja perkara itu berlaku tapi sebaliknya mengunakan contoh tersebut dalam satu kuliah maghrib. Tak tahulah pula beliau telah menegur dalam hati saja, bimbang tuan punya badan tersinggung. Tapi ini dari segi hukum dan beliau pula seorang Imam/Ustaz di Masjid bukankah tanggungjawab beliau untuk menegur.
Saya mengambil pegangan bila kita dah belajar dan kita faham, kita patut praktik dan mengajarkannya pada orang lain, bukan hanya terus-terusan berdebat tanpa hujungnya.
Cikgu lihat isu ini simple aje. Kita perlu lihat isu dari sudut objektif. Cikgu tak nak kupas soal haramnya atau najisnya anjing. Rakan2 kita di sini dah kupas seperti komen-komen di atas. Secara umum, Islam membenarkan pemeliharaan anjing tetapi ada tahapnya. Isu di sini bukan anjing, tetapi apakah perlunya mengaitkan anjing dengan Hari Kebesaran Islam Eid-Fitri? Walaupun ianya sekadar sandiwara atau suka-suka. Jika alasan nak kenang datuk nenek, banyak lagi cara yang diajar oleh Islam dan budaya Melayu bagaimana untuk mengenang jasa arwah datuk nenek. Kaum Cina dan India juga ada ritual tersendiri untuk mengenang datuk nenek.
Di sini cikgu nak bagi contoh (KISAH BENAR) bagaimana nak kenang datuk nenek yang dah meninggal dunia:-
Masa cikgu remaja kampong tahun 1970an, setiap tahun 3 hari sebelum Hari Raya ada seorang pakcik “Uncle Lim” (Cina bukan Islam) akan datang rumah cikgu. Dia akan jumpa ayah cikgu mohon supaya dapat disedekahkan dan didoakan mak beliau yang sudah meninggal (mak dia masuk Islam sebelum meninggal). Uncle Lim akan bagi ayah cikgu duit untuk uruskan majlis tahlil dan doa untuk mak dia. Ayah cikgu tidak ambilpun duit uncle Lim. Jadi, uncle Lim akan beri duit tu kat cikgu (by default agaknya sebagai ‘angpow raya’, cikgu ambil ajelah dah rezeki cikgu!). Cikgu nak tegaskan, inilah caranya nak ingat nenek moyang yang sudah meninggal dunia. Kalau uncle Lim (bukan Islam) boleh buat kenapa Chetz, seorang Islam melalut dengan cara yang tidak bijak?
How does this show disrespect to Islam?
Ya Helen, the video shows disrespect. Takbir Raya, contohnya, bukan sekadar adat Melayu tetapi pengertiannya besar bahawa ALLAH ITU HEBAT DAN BESAR. Manusia hipokrit seperti PAS, PKR, DAP dan UMNO sangat kecil disisi ALLAH. Kita sujud kepada ALLAH bukan kepada tokey judi, pemimpin korup UMNO atau pencetus huru hara seperti DAP, PAS dan PKR. Takbir Raya juga menjadi amalan hebat masyarakat muslim di seluruh dunia termasuk kaum Cina di Tanah Besar China.
Chetz is a good person and she has never, not once, said anything against her faith and religion.
Cikgu setuju beliau seorang yang baik sebab anjingpun dia jaga rapi. Tapi menjadi baik dalam Islam bukan sekadar baik dengan anjing dan sesama manusia tetapi baik juga dalam hubungan dengan ALLAH. Berapa ramai manusia baik tetapi mengamalkan rasuah? George Bush satu ketika dulu dipuji sebagai orang baik dan diutuskan tuhan untuk membela agama Kristian, tetapi beliaulah perancagan peperangan dan paling korup dalam sejarah Amerika (Lihat kes kehancuran syarikat Enron Inc. akibat menjadi proxy politik orang baik bernama G. Bush). Bersikap Baik vs kefahaman aqidah Islam adalah dua perkara berbeza umpama langit dan bumi.
Nasihat cikgu, usahlah tahan Chetz mengikut undang-undang civil. Beliau seharusnya diberikan atau diletakkan di bawah Mahkamah Syariah untuk menjalani proses bantuan emosi, kejernihan aqidah dan membina kembali kefahaman Islam beliau yang mungkin bercelaru. Fahami apa sebenarnya masalah dia dan kita sama-sama bantu beliau memperbetulkan perjalanan hidup.
Negara ini akan menjadi nation of potential murders bila Islam, Melayu, istiadat Raja2 Melayu, bendera Negara, lagu negaraku, asas pembentukan Negara, penjenayah dibela oleh PKR, DAP dan PAS serta tentera dan perajurit tanahair terus dihinjak dan dihina. Sama-samalah kita bina Negara tercinta Tanah Melayu Malaysia ini supaya sentiasa aman, makmur dan harmonis tanpa mengira agama dan bangsa. Hiduplah dengan aman dan merdeka sebagai satu bangsa Malaysia!
Thank you for taking the trouble to comment.
I appreciate that I can learn from menghayati (can’t think of the English word for this at the moment) what you write.
Because I’m not a Muslim I have my own way of thinking. But your generous sharing of your comments have helped me see where the Malay Muslims are coming from in your worldview.
I wish the young generation today could be more like you and your generation.
if there;s a like button for this comment, I’d like it already. terima kasih kerana komen yang bernas dan terperinci, Cikgu!
a friend linked this article which is really very good:
it’s very, very long, but very worth the read.
Perhaps we need to undergo desensitization programs. But then again, I’m not Muslim so perhaps Muslims are offended by the act in a way a non Muslim like me can’t see. I say let’s be more confident in our judiciary’s wisdom on this matter. After all, it’s early days with investigations still ongoing.
Veering off a bit, I suppose a fair bit of Malaysians were shocked waking up yesterday to the tragic death of Chua Boon Huat, a national hockey player. A storm was brewing on Twitterjaya last night on the alleged tweets of one @miyomgiler who on his/her short description had the following hashtags: #UMNO #BarisanNasional
He tweeted the following:
– #ChuaBoonHuat dah mampus rupanyer…patot r kecoh semacam jer…confirm mabuk tu
– Tak yah nak sedih sangat la dengan keMamposan #ChuaBoonHuat. Dia tengah jawab soal kubur tu. Xpun tengah meeting dengan Dewa Buncit dier.
– #ChuaBoonHuat mampos korang sibok sedih…rakyat Palestin mati korang xde sedih pulak…#ChuaBoonHuat tu #CinaBabi kot.
Predictably the idiot got a trashing from the masses. In fact, it was highlighted among others by Khairy himself.
It left me thinking tho’.
This could be an extreme nutjob with serious common sense issues which probably is an isolated case. Or could it be that the simmering discontent by the Malay majority towards the Chinese is pretty much at boiling point now and all it needs is ONE incident to trigger a free for all, no holds barred clash?
re: “the simmering discontent by the Malay majority towards the Chinese”
The anti-Chinese sentiments are much stronger than simmering discontent. DAP is leading their flock to the abyss.
Malaysia has all the makings of a failed state. I had a conversation with a friend of mine on the state of the economy. He got back from Singapore recently and he will return to Singapore after the festive holidays.
Basically he told me that Singapore, when it comes to the economy, they have a game plan. They don’t chase after the latest fad. Take for instance their biomedical industry and water technology.
Their biomedical industry is so advanced now because they took the time to prepare their workforce. Focus on education, training. Only when the human capital is already there, they go out and seek multinationals to come and set up shop in Singapore.
Their water technology industry follows the same path. Now their water self sufficiency is 70% and rising. Without a doubt, they will achieve 100% self sufficiency well before 2061, the year their water agreement with us expires.
Look at our path. We chase after the latest fad. I remember in the 1990s there was this crazed on IT, on how IT will propel us forward to a knowledge based economy.Now, almost 20 years later, where are we ?
Our IT industry is still miniscule. Now so many IT graduates i.e those doing software, have difficulty finding decent, well paying jobs. We never really focused on education/training. We have this “look at the IT industry, let’s enroll as many students as possible to our educational institutions, this industry will provide jobs”. and before we know it, the cycle has turned, and we are left with the buck.
Now the latest fad is the oil and gas industry.
Alas the folly never stops.
“Our IT industry is still miniscule. Now so many IT graduates i.e those doing software, have difficulty finding decent, well paying jobs. We never really focused on education/training. We have this “look at the IT industry, let’s enroll as many students as possible to our educational institutions, this industry will provide jobs”. and before we know it, the cycle has turned, and we are left with the buck.”
“Now the latest fad is the oil and gas industry.”
It is an education bubble that grows and pops, and repeats itself. When an economic sector booms, students enrol in the related majors looking forward to the jobs that will supposedly be waiting there when they graduate. The government and education institutes wholeheartedly promote this.
Three to four years later, after the irrational enthusiasm wears out in the industry, we have more graduates than job vacancies of ‘X’ industry. Or job vacancies requiring “five years of professional experience”.
‘Or could it be that the simmering discontent by the Malay majority towards the Chinese is pretty much at boiling point now and all it needs is ONE incident to trigger a free for all, no holds barred clash?’
No lah guys, this is just ‘an extreme nutjob with serious common sense issue.’
Its good that he got thrashed already!
I dislike desensitization. I think there are plenty of things can be done apart from it.
I cannot help but feel that the masses are being manipulated. I feel a lot of us easily being carried away by the flow of news and trends.
The UMNO-Pas divide in 1980s – 1990s is soul-draining I can tell you. At that time non-Muslim might not feel the heat because it involved Muslim-Muslim political divide. The Chua Boon Huat like rambling can be heard from UMNO and Pas alike at those time.
re: “The UMNO-Pas divide in 1980s – 1990s”
The Chinese unity from 2008 to 2013 and into the future … and the heat this has generated.
Fakin Fake Calvin,
They say a swallow does not maker a summer. As such, one entire race or religion should not be blamed for moronic behaviour of few.
But the truth is that as a Malay/Muslim, I myself feel that Malays/Islam have been tested to the limit by Chinese extremists.
Mark my word, Kit siang and Guan Eng are bringing Chinese to clash with Malays. For years these good for nothing people from DAP are slandering, twisting and inciting Chinese . it is a matter of time before patience is snapped.
I’m still stuck on the Kalimah Allah issue and every other issue that arises, be it pigs, dogs, soups, tea, will bring me back to the hijack of the kalimah Allah. And my gut feeling on that issue is, there is only one verdict that the majority muslims want to see, which is the exact opposite of what the Dap evangelists want, and I’m not looking forward to the aftermath of that court decision.
On this issue, I just want to say ignorance is not always bliss and as a Malay Muslim she should know better.
FFC – If you read comments from Cina Malaysia in one Internet forum when Pak Lah’s wife passed away, you would feel totally disgusted.
My point is – leftist Malays or Cina 2 x 5 saja.
Was at 1Utama this morning getting some stuff from Uniqlo. Done shopping, I went to Food Republic on the 2nd Floor to grab my favorite Pepper Lunch meal.
As it was about 11am, the food court was pretty deserted with just a few customers here & there.
As I waited patiently for my turn at the drink station, a group of approx 5-6 Chinese diners (who are presumably professional as all were wearing the lanyard & sporting ID tags of an MNC whose office was next to 1U) were placing.
As the worker was getting their drinks, one of them remarked that the “huana tu” was working so slow it was as if he hasn’t eaten. His friend immediately answered that the worker hasn’t eaten as the worker was fasting.
(Note: in Hokkien, huana=Malay tu=pig, you can work out the meaning of the phrase)
It disgusted me seeing educated professionals acting uncouth big time. And truly, I see a lack of respect for the Malays from the Chinese. Even in the office, I’m one of the few who would regularly have a meal with Malays & Indians. I put that down to being brought up in a mission school in Kuching, where racist bigots are hard to come by.
I believe with the rise in DAP’s fortunes post GE, the Chinese are emboldened as well as tantalized by the “ubah” a short few years away. They think it will usher an age where the Chinese will rise despite being in the minority. Any right minded person would know that’s codswallop. But I guess this “Chinese empowerment” is manifesting the worst of it in the actions of Melissa Gooi, the JS porn icon couple etc.
Unfortunately, when the racial armageddon comes, it matters not what your thoughts are or which party you support. The likes of Helen & yours truly will still be branded Chinese thus qualifying us as acceptable targets. It certainly seems inevitable currently.
The fire not hot enough meh? I take it you want yours really really hot and extra crispy with extra kerosene on the side? How about some molotov cocktail to wash it down while at it?
“[Quote: The likes of Helen & yours truly will still be branded Chinese thus qualifying us as acceptable targets. It certainly seems inevitable currently.]”
If armageddon comes, I pity Helen and others, but for you, at least you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing you are one of the esteemed contributor.
I really cannot understand what is the point with your Chinese-hate Malay story. I am sure for every Chinese-bash-Malay story, there will be a Malay-hate Chinese story waiting to be told.
Why lament about you being a target and victim? Isn’t it elementary if you play with fire you get burned?
Re”I really cannot understand what is the point with your Chinese-hate Malay story. I am sure for every Chinese-bash-Malay story, there will be a Malay-hate Chinese story waiting to be told.”
I understand completely. I understand it (Chinese hate stories) when it comes from a Malay perspective and indeed there are many stories here of that kind, but I do stop and take notice when it comes from a Chinese or Indian.
Some others who read this blog have suggested it is some kind of self loathing but I don’t see it that way. I don’t know what it is but surely there is an element of survival instinct or something along those lines.
I think some people were used to Helen bashing the DAP, which is why they got upset when she started on the canteen posts. I think Helen’s argument of race and politics has more depth than her detractors (or supporters) give her credit for – although I may disagree with her.
I never understood the argument that the Non Malays should be mindful of their place in Malaysian society to keep the peace. This seems anathema to any kind of cohesion.
Good post btw, HH
FFC…you got that right…rasanya bukan setakat satu…malah dah ramai pun orang melayu yg makin sakit hati akibat nama melayu dan agama islam yg dipermainkan…tengok sajalah…hari tu bak kut teh..nama Allah..isu murtad di dumc..aku pasti akan meletup jugak kesabaran org melayu ni…kena ingat..melayu kalau dah berdendam..sampai lubang cacing akan dicarinya..hanya menunggu masa saja..
banyak penning woooo..
Menyentuh anjing dalam Islam tidak haram dan membela anjing juga tidak haram asalkan tidak diletakkan di dalam rumah bagi mengelakkan kita terkena najisnya (banyak hadis dan tulisan ulama mengenai perkara ini). Persoalannya yang haram adalah MAZNAH itu menjadi PENGKID.. dan tidak menutup aurat macam ROS….AH MAN…..R… itu yang harus dibangkitkan kerana menghina ISLAM.
Kesilapan MAZNAH adalah kerana beliau membuat ritual spt berwuduk dan membawa anjing ke dalam rumah dan menyiarkan ke khalayak awam. Benda yang boleh menimbulkan fitnah elakkan dibuat.
For a tuan haji with a kampung name, your toilet bowl BM is suspect. Are you sure that you are not of an ah chai than an azmi, coming over to get even at big momma?!
Till next time!
As suggested I wached the video again. Here is my conclusion. Maznah maybe a good person but she blatantly disregards the belief of the vast majority of muslims here by posting her dog raya video.
the status of the purity of dogs divides opinions among muslims. So when the majority here regards dogs as unclean, and you posted such video, its going to offend them time big time. Simple. Non muslims opinions are not welcome in islamic religious matters.
While I respect her love for dogs she has to respect those who think that dogs are unclean. What if another person made similar posting with pigs because he or she love pigs? Of course in the case of pigs all muslims agree on their status.
re: “While I respect her love for dogs she has to respect those who think that dogs are unclean.”
While we respect those who fast during puasa month, those who do observe the ibadah have to respect that the obligation as practiced by Muslims during this particular period of time is not enjoined on non-Muslims.
Hi Helen. Masih sempat juga untuk mengaitkan kepada SK Seri Pristina..
Siapa pulak yang tak ni Helen?
Alamak cerita makan kat toilet tu lagi ka? Ish-ish…
Sekolah ini dan GB sekolah ini saja ke tak professional?
I terbalik question “what are the canteen practices in SJKC/T for Muslim students in their schools”, tetapi Helen hanya beri jawapan, there are 10K or so SJKCs in Malaysia.
Apakah GB ini satu2nya dari sekolah satu2nya diMalaysia yang terlepas pandang dalam hal sensitif sebegini?
In SJKC majority are non Muslims so let us check their kantin facilities for their golongan minorities (Muslims) in their schools. Bukan sekadar untuk bulan Ramadan ya, Jan through Noverber!
Baru le Fair nak DERA macam2 kat GB ini ye tak Cik Helen?
re: “there are 10K or so SJKCs in Malaysia”
No, I never said there are “there are 10K or so SJKCs in Malaysia”. I said there are 10,000 schools (of all kinds) in the country.
If you want to know, about 1,285 of them are SRJK (C)s.
Saya setuju dengan pandangan rimau. Tapi takut juga masuk itu middle kingdom, nanti gatekeepers tanya ‘lu apa sini mau?’.
Okay tersilap pandang 10K schools..
Out of the 1285 SJKC my family members pernah belajar in 5 of them (Kedah, Selangor and Wilayah). The first one attended Sin Min Sg Patani as far back as 1966.
So we know the canteen facilities for Muslim students in these schools…. Satu saja I minta, jangan le berat sebelah!
Roger and out!!!!
srjkc treat everyone the same unless if one is handicap, for instance with abstract mindset bordering psychotic, r u one?
Best you explain this to the Indian parent.
the indian parent never raise anything pertaining to srjkc, u did.
now you know what the majority malay are like… sooner or later if this theocratic way will reach it peak & we will end up like pakistan or even worst saudi.. yeah some of this melyu adore the saudi way… you’ll have to wear like ninja ladies.. our society is already turning like arab misogynist culture.. where is the real malay? ..that day MELAYU SUDAH MATI DIBUNUH ARAB JADIAN.. something westernization never fully successfully done.. but arab ada anugerah syurga dan neraka for the melayu and they obey.
Yes I remember the good old days. My mom in her youth loved wearing baju kebaya Nyonya kain organza yang see through, corset and kain belah didepan sampai ke peha. Cantik you! And that’s also one of the reasons my dad jatuh hati! Each of us (my sisters and I) has her kebaya for keeps and sentimental reasons as they are too small for us to wear! HaHaHa..
I do not know how in the 1st place ppl get the picture that “she’s mocking religious things” by watching that video. She already give her explaination. To the extent, she is a muslim as well as I am. Haaaa… Now a “perikemanusiaan” matter should be ask within ourself, espcially to my muslims brothers/sisters.
Secondly, this video was made in 2010, and later in 2013 ppl start to talking about this video, a few days or weeks after the alvivi incident. From my two cent opinion, there might be some agenda in this matter. Who knows?
But obviously this overracting actions by my fellow muslims are sickening me. The difference is win by superiority or winning by love?
it’s best if you read the WHOLE article, dear :)
jgn jadi se-setengah orang yg pick and choose mana2 part yang diaorang suka
Agree…Even Dr Maza acknowledge that the issue is not owning the dog….
the issue is connating the dog with hari raya and wudhu…
and that we dont put dog into our house…
i think it would be informative to point out that when you touch dog saliva or wet dog’s fur or come in contact to it using wet hand, to clean it one must wash the hand in a specific way, wash one time with water mixed with soil and 6 times with plain water. that is why having a dog as pet is something that is hard to do. if you come in contact all day then you must have good supply of soil and probably have to do the ritual cleaning multiple times each day before taking ablution to pray.
Reminded me of my days as a volunteer student at an animal rescue park in Cheshire. I’ve never been a dog lover, avoid them as much as possible.
The rescued stray dogs there just loved me. Tau-tau sudah tido sebelah saya. I knew because I would be woken up in the middle of the night, gatal2 because of the fleas. The owner’s collie dogs were also besotted with me.
Kesian my mat saleh friends, mereka lah yang tolong keep the dogs away from me whenever they can. They knew I had to spend hours in the toilet (no shower, only a sink) simply to samak myself.
It’s quite a tedious process, samak. Imagine, nak ambil tanah dan campur dalam air, and wash your face with it. Yuckk….. the soil at the park was almost black. That would be samak no. one before another friendly dog came and coaxed me into playing with them.
Luckily now in Malaysia they have this Thaharah soap. No more yucky soil. But then there is no friendly dogs in Malaysia to greet me.
Been thinking about getting this one. Where can I get it in KL?
It’s really good news. If this Thaharah soap and water can be used to samak, then Malay Muslims can keep dogs as pets!
i know this chetz n d gang
they all dari mereka2 yg cintakan dan perjuangkan kelangsungan hidup kucing dan anjing jalanan
mereka terutama dr org melayu – memang selalu kena kritik unnecessarily
i felt sad to hear that because of this issue chetz pun kena reman polis
tapi yg buat jenayah dan maksiat selalu terlepas
i see this as one episode of her journey to save wild dogs
bravo to chetz!!!
actually FYI, there is muslim couple at kedah lagi banyak bela kucing dan anjing jalanan – and they stay together with their beloved pets
and mereka pun selalu dipandang serong terutama oleh org melayu sendiri
buang anak kucing, tendang kucing tak salah kan??
baling anjing dgn batu, siram badan anjing dgn air panas sampai luka pun tak zalim kan..??
mengumpat, mencerca orang pun tak dosa kan??
tapi kutip, bela dan beri penghidupan baru kepada kucing dan anjing jalanan merupakan satu kesalahan bukan???
sebenarnya those people of course know what they are doing especially to consider cleanliness before prayers
nowadays also we have sabun taharah (dibuat dari tanah liat)
some people would say….sedang kan “mandi wajib” pun ada yg malas…apatah lagi nak bersusah-payah bersamak lepas pegang anjing
so kepada yg sanggup bersusah-payah menyucikan diri – let them be…
below is Pak Mi’es & Hairie’s blogs:
good day Helen and take care to chetz and her beloved dogs!
Cuba lah baca dari atas sampai bawah dulu…
Orang bukan marah sebab budak tu bela anjing…..Orang marah sebab dalam video dia tu “seolah olah” menyamakan Muslim ambil wuduk dengan Anjing siap dengan takbir raya…dia seolah olah “mocking” the muslim….itulah yang menjadi masalahnya…
I think for all we care, that chetz can even [edited-deleted], no body will give a hoot!
Ada ke Pak Mie & Hairie kat atas tu buat video macam tu??
Jangan salah faham dalam isu ni…
I think semua org agree..perbuatan menyelamatkan anjing/kucing jalanan adalah terpuji….itu bukan isu……
aiseh Helen…why do you censored my comment?…
tapi ok jugak…kurang sikit dosa aku…
Betul tu. Hari tu dia pun censored my comment.
Thank You HELEN.
hahah mdsabu..aku harap Helen censored komen aku kt lordapes.. sekali dia lepas daaa… tp x jd masalah .. censored ka tax censored tu hak dia .. TQ Helen
Saya pun selalu kena. Tapi orang hina Muslim mocking kepercayaan kita pada konsep syurga dan neraka boleh lepas. Helen, Helen. Siap insinuate kita ikut arab buta tuli. Kesian kat Muslim.
It is our job to explain, at least now she and some other understand the issue better.
hahahah….”orang bukan marah”……
hmmm…disebabkan “orang bukan marah”. chetz terpaksa merengkok dlm penjara
dan kita semua bergumbira menyambut hari raya…
anyway.. selamat hari raya..maaf zahir batin
and to helen – happy holiday!
ni penyakit tak boleh diubat….
…penyakit baca tak habis…
Paham paham je la…
I don’t think the police remanded her for keeping dogs as pets.
Saya pun tak rasa mereka yang mengutuk perbuatan minah ni sesuka hati tendang kucing atau anjing(silap haribulan lagi menyimpang jauh dari perlu berhadapan anjing).
Simpanlah seekor anjing satu bilik dalam rumah si minah ni, makan sepinggan ke, tak ada orang nak peduli pun. Paling-paling pun kena kutuk macam artis dan anak2 artis pegang anjing dan simpan sebagai pets. Cuma stupid of hers to do that, shows how “clean” she keeps herself according to syariat, to an extend people can pass judgement on how “islamic” she is.
Tetapi dalam keghairanan masyarakat mencari salah umat melayu dan islam, kehadiran video ini amatlah tak diperlukan, Ditambah dengan laungan azan. Bayangkan, tanpa laungan azan, akan jadi berita hot sangat ke minah ni dan anjingnya? Teknik basuh kaki tu pulak, serupa sangat macam cara orang berwudhu.
Memang padan muka la kalau kena tahan sebab ada inclination menghina islam. Manusia macam ni, kalau baiknya pada anjing berlebihan daripada agamanya, tak guna juga. Sama standard dengan penjenayah biasa, penjenayah agama. Berjuang lah se-heroic mana dengan anjing, tapi syariat tak dijaga, adab beragama tak dijaga, tahap anjing la jugak. Kurang-kurang anjing tak ada akal atau dosa pahala. Ini ada akal nak cari dosa lagi. Apa punya manusia…….
below i copy-paste notes from Hairie regarding his journey-strive-struggle in saving wild cats and dogs:
“Sebenarnya dah lama Mama Rossy dan Jojo Kepsi PH letakkan kat rumah ni walaupun belum siap sepenuhnya…Buat sementara, PH gunakan kanvas sebagai atap rumah anjing ni…PH malas nak letak gambar Mama Rossy dan Jojo Kepsi berteduh dalam rumah ni kat Facebook sebab ramai orang lebih suka mencari salah dari mengetahui perihal yang sebenarnya…Sedap betul jari mereka menaip tanpa memikirkan perasaan orang lain…
Tentang soal anjing, PH melihat ramai orang lebih cenderung komen di laman sosial berdasarkan emosi dan sentimen, bukannya fakta…orang-orang sebeginilah yang memburukkan lagi keadaan…PH dah malas nak berdebat soal ini lagi sebab PH menganggap kalian semua dah STEADY…Dah banyak hadis-hadis sahih dan fatwa dikeluarkan berkenaan anjing, jadi apa salahnya kalau kita sama-sama belajar dan mengamalkannya, yer dop…?? Kalau kita tak mampu lakukan, doakan yang terbaik kepada orang lain yang berani melakukannya…
Apa yang PH buat terhadap haiwan selama ini, hukum hakam syariat tetap berada di tempat yang tertinggi…Sebagai seorang yang berimamkan As Syafie dan pengikut Al Sunnah Wal Jamaah, kita seharusnya bijak mengasingkan emosi, pendapat dan fakta…Syariat perlu diutamakan dan pendapat ulama tidak boleh diperlekehkan…Kita sama-sama mencari persamaan, bukannya perbezaan…
PH hampir pasti seorang rakan PH yang berstatus IMAM MUDA kat Semenyih ni mesti tersenyum bila baca entri ni…Dia pun pernah jumpa Jojo Kepsi dan mengusap-usap kepalanya…Steady bro ustaz…!!!”
Ini pilihan masing2. Kalau sapa nak hidup dengan anjing, tentulah itu hak dia. Bela binatang dan bagi anjing makan itu sememangnya mulia dan digalakkan. Cuma ianya sedikit rumit. Ada yang selesa dan ada juga yang tidak. Masalahnya bukan pasal Muslims tak suka atau benci anjing. Kebanyakkan daripada kita kat sini tidak pelihara anjing sebagai binatang peliharaan atas sebab2 peribadi. Chetz boleh buat apa saja dengan anjing dia. Tapi ia tidak bermakna video yang dia keluarkan, isi video tersebut, tidak menghina Muslim di Malaysia. Sebenarnya ada sebab kenwpa chetz yang buat video ini dan bukannya susuk2 lain dalam organisasinya!
Ada juga Malay Muslims nampak saja anjing , straight away baling this anjing dengan batu or curah air panas. At one point of time, I did save a dog from being poisoned by a Malay man. I think another reason why Chetz did what she did was to change some of these Malay Muslims’ mindset.
“Ada juga Malay Muslims nampak saja anjing , straight away baling this anjing dengan batu or curah air panas.”
Very true in most cases but most have beginning to learn appreciate dog, TAPI CURAH AIR PANAS TU Cina DAP ya. Jangan sedap mulut aje menuduh.
most have begun to learn to appreciate dog.
I saw a skinny dog, chained outside the house with no root top, left for how many days without enough food (water was available coz the Cina owner left a bowl which collected rain water), barking not angrily, incessantly every time people passed by the house.
Need I tell you more stories of dogs being abused by Cina owners?
Please call the SPCA hotline immediately and give the address for rescue!
I have contempt for Maznah because of her video, but Im not like everyone else, rambut sama hitam, hati lain lain.
Hopefully she get through this with her dignity.
lol.. sorry, i mean no contempt… my typo can be out of control.
My grandfather when he was alive sheltered a stray dog, he fed the dog with chicken legs until the Chinese owmee came by and asked.
Not all Muslims geli geliman with anjing.. but then, my grandad was of a different generation.
My grandad was also good with anjing. As I had pointed earlier, he owned a dog which was very loyal and followed him every where. The Kelantan people didn’t bat an eye if you owned dogs way back then but I don’t know their perceptions now!
I HAVE THIS QUESTION.
Let’s say if the authority didn’t take any action against Chetz, what do you think the CINA DAP’s reaction would be? (Clue- Alvivi)
Double standard. Selective prosecution. Second class citizen (alvivi). Cina balik tongsan. Muslims above the law. The usual suspect statements la apalagi?!
Well regardless of the inclusion or not, of race in the names of the parties, but share the same hypocritical stance on the issue of race. UMNO claimed fidelity to the power sharing formula but in the end it was they who betrayed it.
The DAP on the other hand claim fidelity to the Bangsa Malaysia ideal but their actions spit on the concept every time they attempt to do something.
Re: “What will be DAP’s practice if they take over the country? Have a tokenism show of a few Malay faces as window dressing?”
The DAP cannot take over the country. With the help of the Malay counterparts they may become the ruling coalition. But why worry of such matters as tokenism? Tokenism is part and parcel of the political process here in Malaysia.
Re:”Lim Guan Eng runs through Malay deputy chief ministers like one changes diapers. Does this trend show that the DAP evangelistas are genuinely interested in sharing power?”
Why not ? If they come into power it would have to mean that the majority of the Malays support PKR and PAS. While the Chinese would no doubt be influential in the urban areas, they will leave their Malay counterparts to ensure that the rural vote banks remain subservient to PAS and maybe PKR.
re: “UMNO claimed fidelity to the power sharing formula but in the end it was they who betrayed it.”
Agree that Umno behaviour the likes of Noh Omar, who proposed that the Indian parent in SK Seri Pristana be investigated for sedition, made it tough for MCA and Gerakan (plus SUPP) vis-a-vis convincing the Chinese electorate on BN’s power sharing formula.
However, for me personally, I find the MCA behaviour between GE12 and GE13, particularly in allowing its Gunting Dalam Lipatan a free scissorhand to be jaw-droppingly galling. Even the MCA chiefs in Serdang (Ong Kian Ming’s constituency) have been hauled up by the party disciplinary committee to answer to charges of internal sabotage.
re: “The DAP on the other hand claim fidelity to the Bangsa Malaysia ideal but their actions spit on the concept every time they attempt to do something.”
Aiyah, HY in tudung and OKM daily tweeting #sahur and “Insya allah”-ing away like there is no tomorrow, are so Bangsa Malaysia what.
Re: “The DAP cannot take over the country. With the help of the Malay counterparts they may become the ruling coalition.”
I know but, something you wrote before in an earlier comment:
Re:”Why not ? If they come into power it would have to mean that the majority of the Malays support PKR and PAS.”
Pakatan controls Selangor. The editorial board and staff of Selangor Times (not sure if they’re still publishing) did not have a single Chinese.
Malay editors in The J-Star are as rare as a white seal in the Sahara. The nerve of that paper’s Bangsa Malaysia posturing — http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/07/27/Fast-for-a-day-to-show-unity-Initiative-calls-on-nonMuslims-to-join-Ramadan-practice.aspx
The last answer is a jump in my train of thoughts which doesn’t answer your (Conrad’s) questions directly. Sorry about the shortcut. Please join the dots yourself.
I mostly agree, with what you wrote which I think does not stray far from my own comments but wrt to my quote ”
[(In Gollum voice) “Sneaky little Helenses. Wicked, tricksy, throwing my own rhetoric against us!] :D
But ya-lah point taken.
As for the J-Star example, I mean the DAP does not want to question the discrimination that goes on in the private sector anymore then PAS/PKR is willing to deal with the civil sector.
If I’m not mistaken PAS actually extended the quota while in Kedah or something like that.
It would take a forward thinking leader to plot out a strategy out of this racial mess and I get the funny feeling it would come out of UMNO/BN whether they become an “Opposition” or not.
I mean take this Fitch rating drama and the DAP/PKR response to it. Their response was pathetic and when you think about it, this is what the DAP does…..someone is drowning and they are describing the water.
Ultimately yes. It has to be Umno to find us all a way out.
“…does this trend show that the DAP evengelistas…”
No. Only those choose to be blind at heart will believe DAP is all for Malaysians. The reality is the opposite. DAP is for Lim dynasty only.
And Chinese are mere pawn on its way for power. It could not be bothered that it is bringing chinese to clash physically with the malays.
re: “It could not be bothered that it is bringing chinese to clash physically with the malays.”
Shamshul, if you say it often enough (and you certainly do that here), it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Do you remember that sometime back, I said the “CINA DAP” is asking for it for keep pushing the envelope further and further; that was before Alvivi’s case and you agreed with that?
Anyone who doesn’t question those who claim to act on their behalf are pawns. The DAP and UMNO are both playing the race game.
Will there be a clash ? Maybe but it wouldn’t be because the Chinese and Malay are at odds but because the powers that be will it so.
First of all, Islam means submission. And people like Anjem Choudary, a prominent jihadi living in the UK, admit that Islam is NOT the religion of peace. Like it or not, that’s the truth.
That said, this dog issue is way out of control. Yes, dogs are dirty. But if this dyke wants to sleep with dogs, let it be. It’s her life. But, I just don’t want to be a witness to it.
[edited – deleted]
This is the land of ‘freedom’ that Anwar and his gang of troublemakers (like DAP, especially DAP) want to see created.
Freedom of expression is ok, as long as you keep it to yourself!
errr…..who is Anjem Choudary again? Jebala’s cult leader?
Assalamualaikum (peace be upon you), Jebala.
Islam (Salam) means peace. It is the Religion of Peace. Otherwise how do you think the Malays, having introduced amok to the world, merely by conducts, has been mysteriously ‘quite’ for all this while?!
It is the Religion of Peace. Take it from me. If you can subscribe to one Islamist from the U.K, surely you can take cue from another, from Malaysia!
Reply to lol # 131
Re”Only the MORON among us MUSLIMs have manipulated it for their political and personal purpose. ”
Note: Here I am talking about the people who abuse it.”
Oh, I get that and if you read my response here where I said “Now this may be so in theory but would you say that this is a practice in reality ?”
You would have got that too.
In other words, when you say nobody is above the law in Islam but you tell me not to comment on the way how the State defines the Religion when it comes to “deviant” groups, you are conceding that the State defines who is or isn’t above the law in Islam.
Re: “It is a question. Why can’t you answer that?”
I have many times.
Re: “Just read all your comment all over again, and see where does it lead to normally? NADA!”
As opposed to all the other brilliant conversations around here that lead to some folks shouting down others or personal insults or dogpiling or telling people that you fear the wrath of the “Malays” ? When you read my comments did you also notice a trend amongst certain posters to hurl insults and then claim victimhood or did you just dismiss them because you felt like they do ?
Re:”….. you gladly labelled my comment as based on on UNFOUNDED MYTH (can’t remember the exact term) about the Indian community in Malaysia. From there on, I already see certain pattern where I feel it is not worth my time to waste.”
Did you also see that on that particular Indian issue I was agreeing with you on the whole but disagreed with some of your reasoning and that it was YOU, who asked me to state my case which I did ? Did you also notice that I took the time to respond to your points which I thought were based on fallacious reasoning and never once resorted to the tactics you are indulging in here, which you seem to think is acceptable?
Re: “AGAIN MAY I REMIND YOU IF YOU KNOW NUT ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF ISLAM, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING”
Who says I know nothing about the subject ? There is a corpus of knowledge out there concerning Islam – its history, the cultural practices of those who practice and preach Islam, criticisms , scholarly work, polemics for and against etc.
And you would note by question was not on dogma but rather on the sociological/political aspect of how the Religion is promulgated.
Also, there have been so many comments here about Christianity and Evangelism and yet nobody puts forward the idea that nobody should talk about it because they are ignorant of the subject. Should we assume that Muslims are experts on Christianity and every other Religion but Non Muslims are ignorant of Islam ?
Tuak is good, no?
batal posa aku dok gelak x boleh stop..
“Also, there have been so many comments here about Christianity and Evangelism and yet nobody puts forward the idea that nobody should talk about it because they are ignorant of the subject. Should we assume that Muslims are experts on Christianity and every other Religion but Non Muslims are ignorant of Islam ?”
Precisely. There is a clear double standard here where some prominent readers toss out comments about other religions (some to the point of ignorance), but they get wound up when others mention issues which their religion crosses paths with.
Conrad : “Who says I know nothing about the subject ?”
& then Conrad asked : “Also, there have been so many comments here about Christianity and Evangelism and yet nobody puts forward the idea that nobody should talk about it because they are ignorant of the subject. Should we assume that Muslims are experts on Christianity and every other Religion but Non Muslims are ignorant of Islam ?”
I personally view the comment as containing paradox. If u have at least the basic knowledge on Islam, you would’ve known the six pillars of what makes up any believing Muslims. They are :
1)Belief in Allah;
2)Belief in the angels;
3)Belief in the revealed books; (Torah, Zabur-Psalms, Injeel, Dhammapada, Gita etc)
4)Belief in the commissioned Messengers (peace be upon them) (That include Moses, Joshua, Job, David, Solomon, Jonah, John the Baptist, Jesus etc.)
5)Belief in the resurrection and the events of Qiyamah.
6)Belief in the predestination by Allah of all things, both the (seemingly) good and the (seemingly) bad.
Muslims are not ignorant of the subject of Christianity. We have handful of verses touches on the subject of Christianity in the Quran and the Hadeeth. We know Jesus from head to toe, from before his birth to his second coming. We have answers that the Christians have been searching for more than 2,000 years of whom Jesus actually was, where he has gone to, when he’ll be coming back, at what place that he will return, & which verse in the Bible that actually the original verse that coming out the prophets mouth. We know the bible inside out. To claimed to know Islam by not knowing all these is gobsmackingly strange.
Some more, the evangelista have opened up the floodgate allowing the Muslims to scrutinize them by stubbornly wanted to name their Triune God as Allah. We have the every right to do it because we believe that Allah is the One & Only. As Jesus said in Mark 12 verse 28 to 29 & what Moses said in Deuteronomy chapter 6 vese 4.
שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד
The key word is believe. If u don’t believe in all that, then better avoid talking on something that u don’t even believe.
I fail to see how you view the comment as a paradox, but it is normal in my experience for Muslims to think that people are unaware of the six pillars of Islam.
I never claimed that Muslims are ignorant of Christianity (although a great many are) only that they think that Non Muslims are ignorant of Islam (although a great many are) or Non Muslims are warned not to comment on Islam.
While I have n problem with you quoting scripture, I think nothing of it, the same as I would when a Non Muslim quotes the Quran for whatever reason.
Re:”the evangelista have opened up the floodgate allowing the Muslims to scrutinize them by stubbornly wanted to name their Triune God as Allah. We have the every right to do it because we believe that Allah is the One & Only”
I have no problem with Muslims scrutinizing the Evangelist just as I have no problem with anyone scrutinizing Islam.
Re: ” The key word is believe. If u don’t believe in all that, then better avoid talking on something that u don’t even believe.”
If Religion did not have such a hold on politics and kept itself to the domain of its adherents, I would have no problem with this statement.
As it is, Religion be it Islam or Christianity has such a profound influence on our democracy so I will continue talking about either Religion so long as this is the case.
This is just in!!!
Reply to HH #135
“As an analyst, I’m sure you understand the importance of objectivity. Resorting to ethnic slur is a big no no.”
Just as a rejoinder, wrt to islam1st, after he whinged , whined, hurled racist insults and claimed he would never respond to any of my post, he disregarded his own promise and continued whinging, whining and hurling racists insults.
Seeing as how I wanted to spare Helen, the odious task of uploading our juvenile insults and seeing as how islam1st does not even have the moral fortitude to keep to his own promise, I on my own accord, took it upon myself to cease responding to anything he post. Like I said I respect the opportunity for discourse.
This is why he stalks me in ever thread, hurling racial abuse amongst other petty snipes . It does really bother me, there are many people who visit this blog who see him for what he is. I admit I was surprised at lol’s racial taunt because he did seem to be able to hold his own, in a discussion without resorting to such tactics. I guess I was wrong.
As for islam1st, I will continue ignoring whatever he posts because like the Joker, “I’m a man of my word”.
Edit to correct:
Para 3 should read as follows.
It does not really bother me, there are many people who visit this blog who see him for what he is.
Geez, you must be hating my dick so much more than I could have imagine!
Is that for a joke or something, Mr. Joker?
Of course it was!
What do you say of someone, claiming that he is ignoring me and not answering me but kept replying comments made on me for my very own commentaries?
Lidah bercabang pambu double speak Joker that he is!
(Err, that is a joke too. Why so serious?)
And stop talking about my dick as well, will you.
Comments are closed.