Posted in Dosa Umno

CSI: Evaluating evidence 101

The caption to the photo below (originally @ J-Star, article here) says,

“Blocked shots: Khalid pointing to a small indentation on a bulletproof shield used by police during the operation at the apartment in Sungai Nibong.”

http://theunspinners.blogspot.com/2013/08/nah-buktinyabodoh-punya-mentri.html
http://theunspinners.blogspot.com/2013/08/nah-buktinyabodoh-punya-mentri.html

The J-Star reported on 20 Aug 2013:

“Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar said police laid an ambush at the apartment block at about 4.30am yesterday before moving to the unit on the 11th floor where the suspects were staying.

We were shot at first and we shot back in defence. This subsequently led to the death of the five men,” he said.”

Khalid trots out a shield and points to a small indentation on it as solid proof that the police were shot at first, thus prompting the officers to shoot back in self-defence and killing all five suspects.

Nibong3pistols

Although five men were killed in what police has described as a “shootout”, only three guns were recovered. See NST report ‘Cops recover three pistols from 04 gang shootout‘ (19 Aug 2013).

So the police story goes something like this:

  • It was a dark and stormy night at 4.30am
  • Shirtless criminals in their bedrooms shot at us first (from their beds)
  • They kongsi 3 guns between them
  • We shot back in self-defence and killed all 5 of them (two of whom did not have guns)

The proof of the veracity of the police version is the shield with the indentation — see photo top of page.

North Korean leader Kim Jong-il looks at farm tools during his visit to a rice collective farm in Sariwon

Nah buktinya … ikut cakap blogger ini

The man in the photo above (wearing cap and sunshades) is the late North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il.

If our Malaysian police chief can point to a small indentation on a shield as evidence that his raiding squad were shot at first, then why can’t I interpret the evidence presented in the Korean picture above as follows …

… American invasion foiled: Dear Leader Kim looking at the weapons recovered from captured Navy SEALs that accomplished an amphibious landing at Nampho beach to carry out a secret reconnaissance mission codenamed Operasi Cangkul.

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

37 thoughts on “CSI: Evaluating evidence 101

  1. look at his arrogant facial expression as he points out the indentation.,Tu lah, kena tembak semua,…defacing public property.firing squad offense.! just makes ….UgggH…to wipe that smirk away..

    1. I got difference view.. So happy seeing this confidence face. I pray this PDRM will still maintain this ‘arrogant’ face while doing their job. Salute PDRM.

  2. Well it would seem that besides shooting Indian suspects dead, the PDRM are pretty good at aiming their guns at their own feet. Perhaps whatever transformation agenda that is put upon them would include stimulating higher brain activity that would enable them to understand that evidentiary displays such as these only works if the majority of Malaysians have no reasoning ability whatsoever.

    Or maybe I’m not the demographic they are addressing.

    I remember when Aminul Rashid Amzah was painted out as some parang wielding lunatic. Or how “sudden death” seems to be an infectious disease in police lock ups.

    Crime is a joke and the PDRM the punch line.

      1. Re:”Let me add.. PDRM the punch bag..”

        This kind of plea/defence reeks of the attitude that got the PDRM into this mess in the first place.

        1. Nope.. never never mean to plea or defense the PDRM and my believe is very clear, PDRM in this case is not in the mess. They done it right but late.. anyhow better late than never..

          1. Done what right ?

            Kill suspects in shoot outs or by the disease of “sudden deaths” ? The numerous cases of corruption, the fact that Malaysia is one of the major international hubs of human trafficking ? The duelling former IGPs and the revelations they unearth ? By their own internal memo they are subservient to political interests ?

            In this particular case they can’t even seem to be able to mount a credible defence of their actions. Or maybe like I said, I am not the target audience.

  3. Masa kes Lahad Datu tak ada pula Helen keluarkan gambar2 PDRM kena bunuh tu?

    1. PDRM kena bunuh bukanlah satu berita makanya tiada lah keperluan untuk menimbulkan rasa simpati rakyat pada polis yang terkorban dibandingkan gambar mereka yang digelar ‘mangsa polis’..

  4. Hi Helen,

    I think a big issue (and problem) is the conception of power in Malaysia. How leaders (in any & every field) and society conceptualise power (a Hobbesian view), rather than see power as a reflection of democratic norms.

    http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2012/10/23/hobbism-and-malaysia/

    And what I find most interesting in the discussions everywhere on this issue is that there is no regard for the sanctity of life.

    It appears that you are guilty until proven innocent. And since individual is dead, it will be extremely difficult to prove his/her innocence.

    1. Hi Greg,

      I find this to be a repeat along the line of the Seri Pristana controversy where some people’s minds are already made up, and they refuse to consider facts, evidence and other angles presented to them.

      re: “there is no regard for the sanctity of life”

      On a less deadly note, there is also no regard for the way of life (e.g. the 40% of the population – with the exception of Ong Kian Ming – who are not required to puasa during Ramadan) that is followed by the non-dominant minority groups in this country.

      1. You have a very good point there Helen, when you note that:

        “…some people’s minds are already made up, and they refuse to consider facts, evidence and other angles presented to them…”

        I think its natural that individuals in society have these tendencies.

        My concern is rather that those in leadership..especially those in institutions that are supposed to arbitrate these issues (e.g. the police, the judiciary, the Ministries,) have those tendencies.

    2. ‘And since individual is dead, it will be extremely difficult to prove his/her innocence.’

      Pilihan yang ada sekarang ialah untuk buktikan pihak yang masih hidup (polis) bersalah. Jika polis didapati bersalah bermakna pihak yang mati tidak bersalah.

      Bagus jugak idea tu.

  5. Satu tembakan dari suspek sudah mencukupi untuk dibuat andaian bahawa:
    1. Ada senjata api di tangan suspek
    2. Ada risiko kecederaan/kematian yang dihadapi oleh anggota polis
    3. Suspek berniat melawan.

    Polis perlu beri amaran dulu, tembak ke udara?
    Lihat sajalah apa yang terjadi di Ipoh dua hari lepas. Mereka terlalu berani hingga boleh mengepung dan menetak kenderaan polis dengan parang. Hanya setelah 3 tembakan amaran baru mereka beredar. Bayangkan apa akan terjadi jika ada pistol di tangan mereka. Adakah mereka terlupa apa yang terjadi dengan rakan seperjuangan mereka di Sg. Nibung? Atau sudah tiada lagi perasaan takut di hati mereka.

    Pasti GengSTAR bertepuk tangan dan ucap bravo atas keberanian samseng2 ini. Mungkin juga kutuk dan perlekeh polis kerana tak tau SOP.

    1. betul kata qalam qabut…
      semua orang yang tidak berada di tempat kejadian hanya ada persepsi yakni andaian masing-masing.
      malang sekali apabila persepsi sedemikian sebenarnya tidak menyokong tugas Polis dan sebaliknya menyemarakkan lagi kebencian orang ramai kepada Polis.
      memang benar Polis juga manusia yang ada ketikanya membuat kesilapan tetapi mereka juga diharapkan untuk menjaga dan memulihara keselamatan supaya rakyat biasa boleh tidur nyenyak.
      jagi, jika kita tidak dapat membantu Polis adalah tidak wajar kita membuat spekulasi.

      1. betul tu..

        Saya lebih merasakan bahawa mereka penghentam PDRM ini dijangkiti sindrom mahu jadi Hero. Mana mungkin mereka akan dianggap Hero jika menyokong polis.

        Lagipun kerja kerja mempertahankan polis amatlah sukar kerana ianya melawan arus dibandingkan dengan mencemuh dan menghina polis.

        Mereka ini bercakap dengan lantang tentang undang undang tetapi telah menjatuhkan hukuman kepada polis sebelum mahkamah putuskan.

        1. re: “Lagipun kerja kerja mempertahankan polis amatlah sukar kerana ianya melawan arus dibandingkan dengan mencemuh dan menghina polis.”

          Saya rasa yang dicemuh dan dihina ialah suspek yang belum dibuktikan bersabit kesalahannya manakala kerja-kerja mempertahankan ‘due process’ (perjalanan undang-undang sepertimana yang telah diwartakan) adalah amatlah sukar kerana ianya melawan arus yang dibawa si penghentam-penghentam yang suara mereka begitu lantang sekali.

          Tak ‘caya cuba ambil vote count nada komen-komen pembaca dalam blog ini.

            1. True but you’re not wrong and I’m not wrong either. Our views can co-exist and don’t necessarily have to contradict each other b’cos what you see and what I see are our individual perceptions which are not absolute (in the truth of the matter).

  6. Helen kena kerja kat PDRM probably u will have the complete list of “gangsters” with you – jaringan intipan mereka sangat meluas.. You join la Bhgn Perisik. (Itu pun if you can qualify).

    Malaysia lepas Merdeka bertahun2 terpaksa berdepan dgn ancaman Komunis yg amat mengerunkan dan licik.. Banyak pengalaman ya.

    Bila operasi serbuan bukan sekadar main redah ikut suka hati ya..

  7. Helen,

    Saya nampak anda tak berpuashati dengan apa yang terjadi dan nampaknya anda telah berpihak.

    Saya cadangkan kepada anda supaya minta Ketua Polis Negara memberi anda peluang untuk bersama-sama mereka didalam operasi kepolisian memerangi jenayah, supaya anda dapat merasai dan melihat sendiri operasi tersebut dijalankan.

    Mungkin dengan itu anda akan dapat memperhatikan sama ada pihak polis mengikuti SOP di dalam setiap tindakan mereka.

    Semasa anda bersama-sama mereka, anda bolehlah berhenti blogging seketika ke suatu masa di mana anda boleh hidangkan kepada kami pengelaman dan pemerhatian anda semasa operasi yang anda ikuti. Seperti yang dilakukan oleh “war zone reporter”.

    Boleh tak?

    1. Tidak sesekali mahu membela Helen kerana beliau telah memilih untuk menjadi penjolok sarang tebuan makanya Helen dah bersiap siaga untuk disengat tebuan tetapi sekadar mencadangkan agar tuan membaca setiap posting Helen berkaitan isu ini,

  8. I’ve handled firearms since ’94.

    My first experience with a firearm would be a small calibre single load rifle capable of firing a .22 round about 15-20m.

    Since then I’ve fired various revolvers, semi automatic pistols, shotguns & once I was given the opportunity to empty a few mags using a H&K MP5 SMG.

    Today I would normally visit the shooting range in KL once a month & shoot my way through a 100 rounds box of .22 & parabellum ammo as I own a P226 & G17 pistol.

    After almost 20 years of shooting, I still get an adrenaline rush whenever I do it. Even in an airconditioned range you’ll break in cold sweat. There have been cases when a shooter gets over excited & loses control, thus spraying his shots all over the place. Knowing the possibility of that happening, the range would assign shooters a tight cubicle with the sides extended beyond one arm’s length & a locked door.

    When you start firing, you will feel a certain type of high. Your heart will be thumping & you’d be sweating cold beads of sweat. Until today, after clearing the pistol chamber & removing the magazine, I still get a little tremble.

    Point is, it ain’t easy firing a gun. And when you’re shot at or at least you think so, the mind can switch off for a moment. Were the police justified in their actions? Perhaps, perhaps not. Easy for me to take sides considering my familial ties with the police.

    I say, let’s adopt a wait & see attitude. No point passing judgment now with an inquest looming on the horizon. If the police made an extrajudicious killing, those responsible must be brought to book. If they acted within their rights, they must not be victimized. Their job, it ain’t easy but they’re no way above the law.

    1. re: “with an inquest looming on the horizon”

      I’d like to think that de facto Law Minister Nancy Shukri is responding to the widespread public uproar and pressure, http://www.theborneopost.com/2013/08/26/nancy-no-problem-with-inquest/

      Waytha Moorthy had mooted the idea of an inquest. So even though he’s getting a lot of flak from a couple of his Cabinet colleagues, at least his suggestion has been adopted.

      If nobody wants to voice out the ‘unpopular’ stance that goes against the grain and be prepared to take the heat, then things would just continue as status quo and swept under the carpet.

      My only wish is that the general public would evaluate the actions of the politicians they elected. Dapsters are so destructive and Umno right wingers so aggressive, and what they have in common is the sifat ketaksuban. This makes both political fringes always want to silence and shoot down the moderates.

      1. ‘Waytha Moorthy had mooted the idea of an inquest… at least his suggestion has been adopted.’

        Dalam satu ulasan balas kepada komen aku di bawah tajuk ‘The J-Star kata tembak mati 5 lelaki India adalah kes “mangsa pembunuhan” polis’, Helen ada tulis ‘Intipatinya kelima-lima suspek tidak dibicarakan serta pendakwa raya tidak mengemukakan bukti dan saksi, dan tidak ada hakim (Yang Arif) menjatuhkan hukuman ke atas mereka.’

        Bukankah inquest ni suatu proses yang otomatik bila ada kematian yang meragukan? Takkan boleh tutup buku saja selepas post-mortem, selepas dikebumi? Adakah pihak lain atau pihak tertentu memohon untuk diadakan inquest?

        1. ruj. Criminal Procedure Code, http://www.agc.gov.my/Akta/Vol.%2012/Act%20593.pdf

          Duty of Magistrate on receipt of report
          333.
          (1) If the Magistrate shall be satisfied as to the cause of death without holding an inquiry under this Chapter, he shall report to the Public Prosecutor the cause of death as ascertained to his satisfaction with his reasons for being so satisfied and shall at the same time transmit to the Public Prosecutor all reports and documents in his possession connected with the matter.

          2) In all other cases the Magistrate shall proceed as soon as may be to hold an inquiry under this Chapter.

          (3) It shall not be necessary for the Magistrate to hold any inquiry under this Chapter or to make any report under subsection (1) if any criminal proceedings have been instituted against any person in respect of any act connected with the death of the deceased or such hurt as caused the death.

          1. Helen, terima kasih banyak2.

            So, kalau Megistret cakap tak perlu adakan inquest, bolehlah kita buat kangaroo court pulak.

            Tapi kena tunggulah dulu.

  9. secara perbandingan, penjenayah ni kdg2 mcm mat gian juga, menagih dadah itu dikatakan tidak bersalah, setelah ditangkap barulah mat gian mengatakan ianya bersalah; ramai dikalangan penjenayah yang ada diluar sana sudah bertahun-tahun menjalankan kegiatan yang menyalahi undang2 tanpa kena tangkap, namun apabila penjenayah yang seumpama ini ditembak mati dalam serbuan Polis maka dikatakan Polis tidak berlaku adil, zalim dan mcm2 lagi, bagi mereka yang melakukan jenayah berat nak kena tunggu UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ke ! – untuk itu dicadangkan satu SOP baru ; hello, good night, who inside there, we the Police outside here, could you please open the door

    1. Is it ok if we start to shoot you,? Can we do it now? Or would you prefer, we do it in five?

      Cadangan kepada PDRM untuk tanya Penjenayah sebelum tembak!

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