Posted in Evangelista Bintang Tiga

Dapsters — the sultans of spin on Chin Peng

The Federation of Malaya (Persekutuan Tanah Melayu) agreement was signed on 1 Feb 1948.

Between 1948 and 1950, some  3,120,000 persons became citizens by operation of law. They were:

  • Malays 2,500,000 (80.1%)
  • Chinese 350,000 (11.2%)
  • Indians 225,000 (7.2%)
  • Others 45,000 (1.5%)

A further 150,00 Chinese became citizens by application (figures rounded).

The total number of Malayan citizens in 1950 was 3,275,000 out of a population of 5,226,549. Or in other words, another 1,951,549 persons (almost two million) were residing in Malaya but did not hold Malayan citizenship.

The Chinese were 2,011,072 in total, out of which half a million were citizens. Only a quarter out of all the Chinese residing in Malaya in 1950 possessed Malayan citizenship.

In 1950, the Chinese made up 15 percent of Malayan citizens.

In 1952, the citizenship requirements were relaxed. Under the 1952 amended rules, an additional 1.2 million Chinese qualified to become citizens.

The Chinese argued that they deserved to be citizens due to their contribution to the economic development of the country as well as their financial stake. To them, there was no need for Chinese to be able to blend in culturally because their contribution as citizens lies in the economic and financial spheres.

1952

Dr William Fenn and Dr Wu Teh-yao were commissioned by the Malayan British government to produce an education report. Unlike Najib Razak’s favouritest consultancy firm McKinsey that was paid RM20 million to draft the Education Blueprint 2013-2025, Dr Fenn and Dr Wu were not paid a cool RM20 million.

The terms of reference for the study to be carried out by Drs Fenn and Wu alarmed the Chinese leadership.

Local Chinese leaders who were interviewed by the Fenn-Wu team were hostile to the idea of the education system becoming Malayanized.

They were afraid that the government meant to eventually eliminate Chinese schools through converting the education system to Malay.

They also feared that with the Malay ethos being installed as the backbone of the schooling system, Chinese culture too would be eliminated in the long run.

Bottomline: Local Chinese leaders in 1952 believed that there was an “absence of anything that could be properly called ‘Malayan’.

They did not want to have national school usurp the Chinese school because they could not see anything that could properly be called ‘Malayan’ – and as such representing a ‘national‘ education system – to replace the vernacular school system.

They preferred to stick to Chinese education that transmitted Chinese culture and imparted Chinese values to the pupils.

Yet the Dapsters are now insisting that around that same period (1950s), Chin Peng was distinguishing himself as a ‘Malayan‘ patriot.

While the Chinese community leaders during the communist insurgency did not think in Malayan terms at all, the Dapsters today are insisting that Chin Peng had been waging a Malayan struggle to achieve independence for Malaya (for the 11 separate states clustered as Federated, Unfederated and Straits Settlement).

The Dapsters also hold Chin Peng to be a Malayan nationbuilding hero at a time when three quarters of the Chinese residents in Malaya were not even citizens. Dapsters are projecting their Malaysian Firster bull onto the 1950s when in reality a lot of the Chinese then still had their loyalties directed at the ‘motherland’.

For the Dapsters, the argumentative terrain has always to be one where it’s heads they win, tails you lose.

Author:

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99 thoughts on “Dapsters — the sultans of spin on Chin Peng

  1. helen, senang aje.. let’s crown chin peng as ‘the butcher of malaya’ and parade him as such and see how these dapsters try to unspin that!

  2. Terima kasih Miss Helen….Banyaknya Ilmu sejarah Miss Helen tentang Malayan dulu…

    Baru la saya faham kenapa DAP beriya iya sangat dengan mengangkat Chin Peng….

  3. REF: “Bottomline: Local Chinese leaders in 1952 believed that there was an “absence of anything that could be properly called ‘Malayan’.“ They did not want to have national school usurp the Chinese school because they could not see anything that could properly be called ‘Malayan’ – and as such representing a ‘national‘ education system – to replace the vernacular school system. They preferred to stick to Chinese education that transmitted Chinese culture and imparted Chinese values to the pupils.”

    Well, what about us full-fledged Malaysians today 60 years later? Don’t we deserve a Malaysian mainstream school system that also integrates sub-cultural requirements into its curriculum?

    The DAP dynasty would have you believe they represent Chinese cultural interests but the fact is that no Confucian nor Buddhist ethics could ever entertain a ” learned sophistry where it’s heads I win and tails you lose.” Furthermore Chin Peng symbolizes the Maoist anti-capitalist and atheistic revolutionary which systematically condemned Confucianism and Buddhist ideals.

    So the question is: what Chinese culture or virtues are being imparted in the vernacular schools when DAP or even certain MCA quarters are determined to idolize Chin Peng as a “Malayan nation-building hero”? – it sounds like the perfect oxymoron that could never delude any right-thinking Malaysian who is true to God Most High and Merciful, and he harbours goodwill towards his fellowmen.

  4. MDs H. Let tje truth be told. For 47 years, the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP slogan was ‘Malaysia for Malaysians’. Then, at the end of last year, it was ‘Malaysia for Malaysians with a Malay bias.’ Now even the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 10 failed Policies for Singapore dares not shout, ‘Singapore for Singaporeans’ at Hong Lim Green.
    The Blue (KMT) MCA as turned Red (Beijing) and Red (S’pore) DAP Blue (LKY Washington links) not only with a Malay bias but also a ‘Chin Peng’ bias. Has the Malaysian Chinese turned MARXIST when it does nt exist anymore except in the jungles of Central and South America and Nepal for want of a political philosophy which was MONEY ! Somewhat llike the Muslim Brotherhood with Pax America backing. Which is more RED, MCA or DAP ?

    1. Sir, the anti-establishment atheist radicalism is no more confined to mosquito-infested jungles, not for the last 60 years or more. The false premises of Militaristic Marxism has morphed into a sophisticated Cultural Marxism which now has Pax America in its sway …… and fast infesting this beloved nation of ours.
      It’s a PAKATAN

      pls google: Smash Cultural Marxism

  5. Re. Dapsters are projecting their Malaysian Firster bull onto the 1950s when in reality a lot of the Chinese then still had their loyalties directed at the ‘motherland’.

    Prior to Tun Razak’s official diplomatic visit to China in 1974, a lot of “Cina Malaysia” had dual citizenship i.e Malaysia and Mainland China. After the visit, the “Cina Malaysia” who had dual citizenship, were asked to decide and give up one of them.

    In the 70’s according to the elderly, the term “Balik Tongsan” was very common for the old “Cina Malaysia”, as there is where they usually prefer to retire i.e. Tanah Tumpah Darahku.

  6. Very good write up Helen and very topical indeed. But then all such dose of reality and historical truths are lost on the Dapsters, like rain falling on the back of a buffalo. It just won’t register.

    The problem with Dapism-loving Chinese is that their hypocrisy – they proclaim love for a national identity (Bangsa Malaysia) and accuse the “social contract” as discrimination and demand equal-econmic rights while stubbornly refusing let go the cultural, religious earned through the very same “social contract”.

    The reason is that their hypocrisy is protected by DAP and MCA. So they can now have their cake and eait it too. They let DAP to fight the “inequality” of the social contract and sing the Bangsa Malaysia song. But at the same time they let MCA to do the hard donkey work of protecting their ethnic and religious rights. Previously they struck a balance between these two seemingly paradoxial objectives by supporting both parties more or less equally. However starting 2008, there was a sea change. MCA still does all the donkey work but without any rewards for its toils.

    I think the smart thing for MCA is to call the Chineses’ bluff. MCA should tell them – ” Folks, since you obvious think the DAP/PR model is the way to go and gave all your support to them, then it is only fair that DAP represents the Chinese. Now that you had voted MCA out of the government, we no longer have a say in BN’s decision-making process. We will focus on servicing our constituencies and making money via our cash cow the Star. If you have a problem, don’t look for Micheal Chong but head to Subang Jaya and look for President Hannah Yeoh”.

    1. re: “But at the same time they let MCA to do the hard donkey work of protecting their ethnic and religious rights.”

      Why should Umno continue feeding the beast that is doing all the donkey work for the DAP?

        1. re : If you have a problem, don’t look for Micheal Chong but head to Subang Jaya and look for President Hannah Yeoh”.

          That a good one Calvin. Request permission to use it in my blog, Tq

          :D sarah

        2. Re. I think UMNO should reach out directly to the Chinese and cut out the middlemen, who incidently, the agents of DAP any way.

          That was what Najib did prior to PRU13, dangling all sort of goodies for them but they spit on his face in return. Even the MCA booth was man by the UMNO people during PRU13.

          Sekarang PADAN MUKA Cina DAP. I commented about this before.

          Can the Cina DAP go to Najib now and ask for anything? or have you guys heard anything to the likes at all? none, zilch, nada….

          The “beginning of all this” is the sudden drop in enrollment % of non-bumi quota into IPTA.

          Btw, did you hear the Indian students make the same noise at the same time?

          As for the Indians, secretly they have been placed in various higher learning institutions and not based on merits.

          I said this before. it is going to be “CARROT & STICK” for the “Cina DAP” from now on, and they are already feeling the heat.

          JANGAN INGAT UMNO DIAM, TANDA UMNO BODOH….

  7. I don’t know if Malayan or not.

    Chin Peng described himself as a nationalist and freedom fighter in his book.

    1. HH….”Chin Peng described himself as a nationalist and freedom fighter in his book”.

      i believe anyone can proclaim him/herself as a nationalist and freedom fighter in his/her own book.

      But, action do speaks louder than words and therefore it is what Chin Peng has done that actually speaks of who he really is….!

      And the same goes to DAP and their dear leaders. The same also with MCA, PKR, PAS and UMNO.

      Semua orang ni mahu publisiti….cakap macam bagus, macam dialah orang yang paling baik dalam dunia tapi kenyataannya…..’hampeh’!

      1. re: “cakap macam bagus, macam dialah orang yang paling baik dalam dunia tapi kenyataannya…..’hampeh’!”

        I second that!

    2. Kalau he went back to fight Mao Tse Tung his description as a “nationalist and freedom fighter” is correct correct correct.

      His father came here to sell bicycles, no freedom, should pack his family back home to China la.. Why in China cannot sell bicycles owh??

    3. Calvin and alwieabdullah

      The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice – Mark Twain

      History has many versions and truths, depending on which side you are standing on.

      For those who lost their loved ones to the Communist, I take it you have your right to hate Chin Peng and co. It is personal, so on personal grounds, I do not wish to engage with you further.

      End.

      ***********
      For those who wish to continue discussing based on rational and not emotional appeal, I can honestly understand CP’s stand during the Japanese Occupation.

      The Chinese was treated especially bad by the Japanese because of their ongoing war with China. About 60,000 Chinese in Malaya was killed during the Malayan Japanese occupation.

      On the other hand, the Malays were treated well by the Japanese so basically the Chinese were on their own. CP joined the Communist at 15. From a logical point of view, I do to a certain extent understand the fight and the stance of the Communist was inevitable then.

      That is part of history.

      The opposition acknowledging certain contribution of CP is not wrong, sincere or not, that’s another question for another day.

      1. Grammar mistake…

        The Chinese were treated especially bad by the Japanese because of their ongoing war with China. About 60,000 Chinese in Malaya were killed during the Malayan Japanese occupation.

        1. Calvin

          Quote: “Let’s not mix anti-Japanese fight with CP’s communist leanings. CP, as you admitted yourself, joined the fight against the Japanese because the Japs treated the Chinese brutally. So that doesn’t make CP a nationalist or a patriot but an ethnic champion.”

          I do agree with you on that. When CP first joined the Communist fighters, I do suspect his decision was most likely made, out of ethnic concerns in view of the mass killing of CHinese by the Japanese.

          Quote: “And when the British returned, CP refused to hand over the arms and wanted to declare a communist republic to be led by CPM’s Chinese leaders”

          We are injecting our current racial sentiments into our interpretation of events/history. I do agree with you the communists refused to be under British rule after the Japanese fled, but I do take exception to your statement “wanted to declare a communist republic to be led by CPM’s Chinese leaders”.

          I might be wrong, I have to disagree on the heavy racial undertone of what you implied. I do concede CP and gang wanted a republic based on the ideals of Communism. No doubt. They afterall subscribed to the idea of Communism, more so than some race based supremacy idealogy. The Communists then were not only Chinese. Rashid Maidin was the leader of the MRLA’s Malay-dominated 10th Regiment and he was there during the Baling talk. Rashid Maidin was a prominent Malay figure within the COmmunist structure.

          The communism idealogy is not so much race-centered as it is a form of social justice where wealth are shared equally among the people and liberation from imperialism and the monarchy.

          “I make no apologies for seeking to replace such an odious system with a form of Marxist socialism,” Mr. Chin wrote. “Colonial exploitation, irrespective of who were the masters, Japanese or British, was morally wrong.” – Chin Peng

          Quote: “So what kind of contribution PR leaders and you are talking about ? CP was no patriot – he was ethnic champion. Just like Osama fought the Russians when it suited him and then turned on the Americans and mass murdered them, CP is no patriot or national hero except to his own race.”

          Tunku Abdul Rahman in his memoirs, “Lest We Forget” (1983), did acknowledge the communists’ role in the struggle for independence.

          “Just as Indonesia was fighting a bloody battle, so were the communists of Malaya, who, too, fought for independence.” – TAR

          Maybe it’s not so much so we should call CP a hero of somekind. I say just recognize his contribution in our history as it stand. No more, no less.

          1. HH,

            If I am not mistaken, CPM wanted to abolish the Malay Sultanate and establish a communist republic. As you know CPM’s leadership was Chinese, the new nation will be under the Chinese rule. That obviously will not be acceptable to the Malays.

            CPM had Indian and Malay leaders but if I am not wrong they were not actually communist by belief but more of leftists driven to underground and into arms of CPM by British crackdown on CPM & the Putera movement.

            TAR actually used the Baling talks with CPM to strengthen his hands in negotiating with the British for independence. I don’t disagree that CP fought for independence but he’s no patriot for his loyalty was communism and his race.

            The sad thing was while many Chinese took arms against the Japanese but when the Brits introduced national service, many Chinese youths refused to serve and left to China by thousands. Hardly an act of patriotism.

            I am disgusted by some Chinese commentaors who suggest CP’s contribution being ignored due to his ethnicity. These people forget that there are many Chinese (Dato Yuen for example) are considered as some of the greatest Malaysian heroes.

            1. Calvin

              Quote: “f I am not mistaken, CPM wanted to abolish the Malay Sultanate and establish a communist republic…. the new nation will be under the Chinese rule. That obviously will not be acceptable to the Malays.”

              No doubt if CP was successful in his bid, the monarchy would have to go. As for whether the Malays would have a problem with the Chinese in the lead, that is a good question. Malay nationalism as defined today, had only taken a more definitive shape during Mahathir’s era in the 90s. Way back then, Malay nationalism or the subject of ketuanan would have taken a back-seat to more pressing issues at hand, namely the toll of war and the hardship of poverty.

              Quote: “CPM had Indian and Malay leaders but if I am not wrong they were not actually communist by belief but more of leftists driven to underground…”

              To be dead honest, if one were in their shoes during those turbulent times, the idea of Communism wasn’t that bad a prospect for the poor and those at the lower end of society. For the elites with wealth and influence, the concept of sharing the spoils equally among all, as advocated by the idea of communism would have sounded awfully frightening. On the other hand, the socialist movement with a class-less and equal-wealth society must have appealed to the masses.

              Quote: “am disgusted by some Chinese commentaors who suggest CP’s contribution being ignored due to his ethnicity. “

              On the suggestion CP being ignored due to his ethnicity, it is my personal belief, yes, there is indeed some truth in this allegation of double standard.

              I quote Tan Sri Abdul Rahim Mohd Noor, our former IGP who led the peace talk with the CPM in Haadyai :-

              Quote: [Abdul Rahim, a former inspector-general of police, said it was “grossly unfair” that Chin Peng had not been allowed to return to Malaysia permanently or to even make social visits, pointing out that CPM chairman Abdullah CD was even given an audience with Perak Sultan.

              “Rashid Maidin, I was told, performed his pilgrimage through KL with the help of the Malaysian authorities. What’s all this?” said Abdul Rahim, referring to the CPM central committee member.]

              http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/malaysia-is-laughing-stock-over-chin-peng-affair-says-ex-igp

              1. HH,

                1. I don’t have any issues with communism as an ideology and I think many who are opposed to communism fault its core tenets. Personally on an ideological level, it is certain superior to capitalism and appeals to the goodness of man as opposed to capitalism which depends on greed of the humanity to progress.

                However, communism was hijacked by opportunists who used it to gain power and then brutalize and oppresss them to stay in charge. The mass murders, police state and deaths of millions gave communism a bad press.

                In Malaysia, communism is / was associated with insurgency. When people say communist basically they refer to terrorists.

                Lots of people don’t understand the damage that CPM’s struggle caused to Malaysia’s race relations. The support the Chinese gave to CPM was seen as an act of betrayal by many older Malays.

                I am not sure you age but I am old enough to see the tail-end of the Emergency 2. Even though the Chinese were the victims of PKM by far, many of them refused to serve the security forces and left to China to escape the NS. And the Chinese support of food and money was critical to PKM’s continued struggle until the late 80s. The Malays were furious over this.

                Many people today have a rose-colored tint view of the past where they say all races lived in real Muhibbah spirit in those 50s to 70s. This is bullshit. This was only true among the English-educated upper and upper middle class in the cities. Our race relations always been difficult. And PKM caused much of the division.

                2. As for CP, the arrangement was that the ex-PKM members have to apply to return home and they will be subjected to an interview before they are allowed to return. From what I understand CP did not apply even though he was given chance. CP himself is not sure, he felt he did apply.

                Rashid Maidin & other Malay leaders are small fries and never really amounted to much in PKM other than figureheads.

                I don’t want to comment too much on the ex-IGP’s view points except to say that he’s wrong based on the agreement. You might be interested to note how some ex IGPs and generals have been active in the public sphere in the last year or so. There are some reason behind it though I let you to make your own conclussion.

                1. re: “Many people today have a rose-colored tint view of the past where they say all races lived in real Muhibbah spirit in those 50s to 70s. This is bullshit.”

                  Most definitely. Bullshit (below) from The J-Star.

                    1. ROTFL, see how Bangsar Malaysia has switched the Chinese boy to the middle. There’s also the girl version of this poster. The Chinese girl is similarly in the middle.

                    2. “ROTFL, see how Bangsar Malaysia has switched the Chinese boy to the middle. There’s also the girl version of this poster. The Chinese girl is similarly in the middle. ”

                      Ya. Semua mata sepet. Every Chinese can be any race. We can name a few DAP celebs, can’t we?

                      Happy CEC voting day. May the holiest win.

      2. Let’s not mix anti-Japanese fight with CP’s communist leanings. CP, as you admitted yourself, joined the fight against the Japanese because the Japs treated the Chinese brutally. So that doesn’t make CP a nationalist or a patriot but an ethnic champion.

        Had the Japs treated the Chinese as they did the Malays, Mr CP would have stayed home. His desire to fight the Japs were driven by racial motivations and NOT patriotism.

        And when the British returned, CP refused to hand over the arms and wanted to declare a communist republic to be led by CPM’s Chinese leaders. And when the British granted Malaya independent he carried on fighting the Malayan govt. Tell me which part of his struggle did CP fought for the country rather than his own race or party ?

        So what kind of contribution PR leaders and you are talking about ? CP was no patriot – he was ethnic champion. Just like Osama fought the Russians when it suited him and then turned on the Americans and mass murdered them, CP is no patriot or national hero except to his own race.

        As I also had mentioned he was no communist but a Maoist since he was merely copying what was happening in his own motherland and turn Malaya into Mini China and their satellite state.

        1. Indeed Calvin, CP was involved in anti-Japanese activity BEFORE the invasion of Malaya. He stated himself he joined the Communist movement to oppose what the Japanese were doing in China. Also he wanted to leave for Yanan, Mao’s stronghold in China, but was talked out of it.

          Essentially he was a Chinese patriot not a Malaysian/Malayan one. And also we cannot forget that the CPM itself was a creation of the CCP and Comintern. It was not the creation of local patriots.

          And btw Calvin, you are right about CP being a Maoist. Just seeing what Maoists have done in China and Cambodia makes one shudder at the thought if CP ever achieved power in MAlaysia.

            1. Hello friend, there are no more Americans in Iraq, long gone bro. Unless you mean Afghan, there are Americans but you’ll be hard pressed to find them as they never leave camps pinned back by the Talibans.

              1. So HY, what are you going to be, then? An Iraqi patriot or Islamic patriot? Just like Chin Peng, non citizen of that country but trying to fight for Iraqis/Muslim and in the future? When you die (in Malaysia or in the dessert near Iraq but well endowed like CP), I also believe that you would want your ashes to be brought back to Iraq with full honour and remembered as hero and nation builder, huh!!!

              2. They have been gone long ago, leaving Asians (mainly Indians, Paks & Chinese) to carry the can for UN and them. I have friends working there now (though I can’t reveal too much details about them) and have a lot of things to say about the Americans.

                Though the Americans have gone, it is not a bad place to make a name as a martyr there now.

    4. Chin Peng and his gang of Communists are killers pure and simple. They are enemies of an Independent State . The Federation of Malaya then ….

  8. All this seems rather queer. Who were these “local Chinese leaders” who were interviewed and who were hostile to the idea of a Malaynized education system. Those proxies who were set up by the British to work hand in hand with the Malay elites who also set up by the British ?

    Or maybe they were the Commies that the majority of the Chinese supported or so we are told ?

    You don’t have to be a citizen to be a nation building hero. And while historical revisionism using contemporary propaganda is to be disavowed, what can you expect of a political climate that gives us Tanda Putera.

    1. I was paraphrasing from a monograph by Dr Chai Hon-Chan (or Chan Chai Hon, his name in the Chinese style) titled ‘Education and nation-building in plural societies: The West Malaysian experience’ published by the Australian National University. Dr Chan was Universiti M dean Faculty of Education in the early 1970s.

      He does not explicitly name the Chinese leaders. I’d read them to be the community leaders who sponsor and finance Chinese schools and sit on the school board as well as the Chinese educationists.

    2. It shows your lack / ignorance of history. You can claim the history was written by UMNO but you are free to refer to history book by respected non Malaysians and they will say the same thing.

      Many Chinese (and Indians) those days did not view Malaya as their homeland or loyal to the country despite all the spins that these revisionists from PR trying too. This is not an UMNO propaganda but historical fact.

      CP was never loyal to Malaya – he was only loyal to his race, that’s his motivation to fight the Japs. It that does not fit with your romantic freedom fighter narrative then tough luck bro.

      PS : Would strongly recommend you from using words such as “queer” as it might be miscontrued in the light of your involvement in the BBMT – Broke Back Mountain tag team.

      1. As usual Calvin you are arguing above your intellectual weight. Just because someone says the same thing that you do, be it Malaysian or Non Malaysian does not make it factual.

        And since UMNO has seen fit to ban books by Non Malaysians ( and Malaysians) on topics such as Religion, History, Economics and Politics, it does make your claim to UMNO’s fidelity to fact or truth ludicrous. But then again nearly everything you type (write would imply some sort of thought process behind the action) is ludicrous.

        And many Chinese and Indians did view Malaya as their new home which was why there were moves and negotiations to naturalize them which again is implicit in this very blog posts.

        Poor Calvin, you write something like this “CP was never loyal to Malaya – he was only loyal to his race, that’s his motivation to fight the Japs” – and do not understand the implication. So by this rational, anyone or political party who fights for their race against another does so not because of loyalty to country. However besides the intellectual and historical muddle, you do have a rather simplistic view of the forces that built this country.

        I know it must disturb you that a Chinese man fought against colonialist and occupiers for ideological reasons, while the best the Indian diaspora could muster was servility to the Raj, but you don’t have to feel all that bad. There were Indians and Malays who fought under the same banner.

        Lastly Calvin, I know you are obsessed with homosexuality but the word “queer” is not just confined to that community. And since by your own admission, you choke your chicken while reading my posts, you should be grateful that as an object of your obsession, I take your interests with amusement.

        I do think you should expand your understanding of the English language before responding but honestly this would rob your typing of comedic effect.

        1. But Conrad, you have not actually rebutted Calvin’s arguments. All you are doing is making ad hominem comments against him. Calvin is right that CP was hardly a freedom fighter with the love of Malaya burning in his heart. He himself admitted that he joined the Communists to oppose the Japanese invasion of China and wanted to go back to China to fight the Japanese. These are historical facts.

          What are also historical facts are that the CPM was the creation of the CCP and that the MPAJA used Chinese as lingua franca. That does not sound very Malayan to me. And I’m not sure on your stance on CP. Do you think he is a “nation-building” hero as you mentioned above that to be a nation-building hero one does not need to be a citizen. If thats what you think then what exactly do you think he contributed to nation building.

          As far i know he contributed nothing to our institutions, infrastructure, or anything to civil society or government. The only thing he did was commit acts of terrorism against the people he claimed to be liberating.

          1. Hitoliriri 1989,

            There was nothing to rebut in Calvin’s argument because I never claimed that CP was a freedom fighter, although beyond semantic argument arguments he was. If you look at my first post on this thread, I said that one need not be a citizen to be considered a nation building hero. If anything Calvin as usual was erecting strawmen and engaging in ad hominems not to mention bigoted asides, which you seem to overlook. Oh well, anyways….

            It is also historical fact that the various incarnation of the Communist left wing ideology (of which the CPM was one) was the proto movements of various labour organizations and people movements that opposed the British colonial rule.

            It is also historical fact that the British armed and trained Chin Peng and his merry men when it suited their purposes. It is also historical fact and which was alluded in recent posting on this very blog that the British as a Colonial power succoured local political entities be it Malay, Chinese or Indian groups who were predisposed to their interest. This does not sound very Malayan to me.

            Now you may think that Chin Peng did nothing to contribute to the nation but the British certainly did. If fighting colonialism and then occupation under the hand of the British, means nothing merely because he did so under an ideology that the British made use of, then history would reveal to us that nobody could be called a Malayan patriot.

            In an earlier post Calvin in his usual bluster claimed that ” Had the Japs treated the Chinese as they did the Malays, Mr CP would have stayed home.”- which in other words means that the Malay community was collaborating with the Japanese. Not very Malayan if you ask me.

            If the introduction of the left wing ideology in contrast with the imperatives of Colonialism means nothing to you and resisting Japanese occupation means nothing to you merely because CP was Chinese and fought under the Communist banner, than I suggest your fidelity to historical fact is not as unwavering as you think.

            1. 1. “It is also historical fact that the various incarnation of the Communist left wing ideology (of which the CPM was one) was the proto movements of various labour organizations and people movements that opposed the British colonial rule.”

              Conrad, again may we know which source you are referring to? This is down right wrong! The communists actually used Labour movements as fronts to fight not just British but governments elsewhere too. This was the communist strategy. You are completely and utterly wrong.

              CP did not start his struggle by fighting colonist (British) but the Japanese even BEFORE the Japs landed in Malaya. These are facts and not some fiction from “Malaysia History According to Conrad”.

              2. “Now you may think that Chin Peng did nothing to contribute to the nation but the British certainly did”

              You are mixing serving British interests with Malayan interests. When CP fought the Japs, he served the British (and the Chinese interests), so obviously the Brits awarded him medals. The Brits were using him and he was using the Brits. After the war, not unsurprisingly their objectives were no longer had a common purpose- in fact these were in conflict.

              3. “In an earlier post Calvin in his usual bluster claimed that ” Had the Japs treated the Chinese as they did the Malays, Mr CP would have stayed home.”- which in other words means that the Malay community was collaborating with the Japanese. Not very Malayan if you ask me.”

              How on earth you could conclude the Malays were collaborating with the Japs based on my statement? Can I have some of the stuff that you been smokin?

              1. 1. Calvin, do you even understand what left wing ideologies mean? Of course various peoples movements and labour parties were infiltrated and sympathetic to the communist course, since communism is a lfet wing ideology. What exactly is your point wrt to mine about the legacy of left wing ideologies.

                Also I never disputed that CP started his fight against the Japanese before the Japs landed in Malaysia, which is probably why the Brits armed and trained them when the Japs eventually did land in Malaysia.

                2. I am confusing no such thing. There was no Malayan interests beyond the British interests unless of course a international standard statistician like yourself could furnish us with groups promoting Malayan interests which were separate from British interests and who not proxies of the British government.

                3. You claimed that if the Chinese were treated as the Malays , CP would have stayed at home. What does this imply if not collaboration unless of course, words impart a different meaning in Calvin Sankaran land.

              2. Ms H. To be fair to all in this discussion on the origins of the MCP, there were actually to sides to this Communist coin. In 1931, a French citizen an agent of the Comintern (Western and inspired by the Soviet Union) was arrested in Singapore when a move was made to set up the CP there and in French Indo-China. The British was already alerted to the danger of Soviet International Communism then.
                In the meantime, turmoil was created by the Japanese on Mainland China with the concomitant flood of Chinese to the Southern Seas and most of them ended up in the Straits Settlements and the Federated Malay States. These Chinese were the educated ones with KMT or CP ideas unlike the illiterates which came in the 19th Century. The infiltration by these politically charged elements were foremost into the Chinese schools which soon became a hotbed of mainland Chinese politics.NON OF THESE

                1. Sorry. Continue. NONE OF THESE CHINESE WERE INTERESTED TO FREE GOOD OLD MALAYA FROM BRITISH COLONIAL BONDAGE. They were fighting amongst themselves to serve the bigger interests in China which at that time the CP was second best. The heat of Chinese politics in the towns of Malaya and Singapore forced the British Governor Clementi to restrict Chinese influx in 1931. And as the Sino-Japanese War heated up from 1931, the British wisely put up Offices for the Protector ( a euphemism to describe a young Police cadet trained in Swatow, Xiamen or Canton ) of the Chinese in Penang, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. These were sited right in between the place of Chinese commerce, Petaling Street and their place of political activity, the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall. The office is still there to this day on the other side of the Chan clan temple. The British would banish all Communist activists to China which they did up to 1957. Then World War 2 came on 8 December 1941. And the rest is history of the MCP which is well-documented in books.

          2. “What are also historical facts are that the CPM was the creation of the CCP”

            it is a well known fact that vietnamese help in founding of mcp as directed by moscow’s comintern. there is no evidence yet that mcp get instruction from either soviet and china. i think we shouldnt look at malaya communist movement in isolation but must considered what happened as a whole in far east at that time.

            1. Ms H. Throughout the Communist insurgency 1948 to 1972 especially at its height, the MCP received instructions via the Voice of Malaya emanating from Yunnan. This was silent after diplomatic relations were established between Malaysia and China. It was one of Tan Sri C.C. Too’s (the most senior Chinese Adviser to the Government and my relative) many tasks to decipher these messages which came over every day and night.in Marxist diatribes.

              1. Ms H. To put it succinctly, the Voice of Malaya, (I could also listen in on my short-wave radio at about 8 pm every evening) was the umbilical cord between the Communist Party of China and of Malaya.

                1. HY. Try to listen to different radios for different types of news. BBC is for British slanted news and futball. Voice of America- American politics. CCTV7 – independent view. Aljazeera – actually CIA. Singapore news – always expect them to blow trumpet about themselves. Nowadays interesting local – like today lightning stopped MRT ! How can this happen in the 21st century in WORLD CLASS SINGAPORE.

        2. Arguing over my intellect weight? You mean you are too smart to debate with me? I am teriibly sorry for momentarily forgetting that you are the resident “Mr Know it All”.

          UMNO bans books? Since when? It is in their website where the list of books is provided? Could be so kind to point to the URL ?

          CP fought for ideological reasons ? On what grounds are you trying to put forward such ridiculous argument ? Any independent history book or source to support this ? I do hope it is not “The Malaysian History According to Conrad”.

          CP joined MPAJA when he was just 15 and are you saying he was influenced by ideology to fight the Japanese ? CP himself said he wanted to fight the Japs aand even wanted to go to China to do so. So why would a patriot want to go to another country to do its fighting? To me it looks awful lot like racism rather than ideology unless you consider Chinese as an ideology by itself.

          This is no different from some nuts who join Al Qaeda to fight Americans in Afghanistan. So based on your definition Osama too is a hero since he’s driven by ideology and fought colonists.

          I don’t have any issues with no Indian heroes who fought the Japs or the British. But what matters was there were many Indians who did fight the murderous CPM terrorists. In your twisted lttle mind you consider hand ful of Indians in CPM as heroes while the loyalty and sacrifices made by the hundreds of Indian army and police officers who fought for the country and civilians did not even register. How pathetic.

          1. Well yes, Calvin you are arguing above your intellectual weight. Let me explain.

            By disingenuously claiming that UMNO does not ban books, when the Federal government does indeed ban books and making it seem like UMNO (when there have been numerous decisions made at UMNO’s general council which should have been Cabinet decisions) is distinct from the Federal government, your weaselly words are shown for what they are.

            Calvin, are you a moron in the traditional sense of the word ? I mean really, in all these exchanges you have been going on about Communism and CP and you ask for what ideological reasons CP fought for ? Jesus, CP said it himself.

            So, now the claim by Establishment partisans like you Calvin, is that CP was actually a full blown Japanese hater because of the fact that he was Chinese. Never mind that he wanted to turn Malaysia in a Communist Utopia and signed a peace treaty with the Malaysian government…it all boils down to the fact that he was a Japanese hating Chinese man.

            Um, you do understand that Osama is considered a hero by many people in the Middle East esp. those hostile against the House of Saud and American Imperialism ?

            You know why you are an idiot Calvin, never once did I claim that CP was a hero. Never once did I mock the sacrifices of those who fought against CP, which includes many members of my family.

            However your emotional appeals hidden beneath a mask of sycophancy will never detract that this nation was built by events and people which will never neatly fall into your UMNO approved little boxes.

              1. You really are a cretin, Calvin. By this logic you lost the debate in your fist post when you started with the name calling and personal insults.

            1. HY,

              Sorry to burst you bubble. The dynamics of history is not as simple as some spinners here trying to portray. This some materials from wiki as food for thoughts for you….

              ———————————————————————

              Indian National Army

              Subhas Chandra Bose, who led the Azad Hind, a militant movement which aimed to end the British raj through military means, used Japanese sponsorship to form the Azad Hind Fauj or Indian National Army (INA). The INA was composed mainly of former prisoners of war from the British Indian Army who had been captured by the Japanese after the fall of Singapore. They joined primarily because of the very harsh conditions in POW camps.

              The INA also recruited volunteers from Indian expatriates in Southeast Asia. Large number of Tamilians working in Southeast Asian countries enrolled themselves with the INA.[16] Bose was eager for the INA to participate in any invasion of India, and persuaded several Japanese that a victory such as Mutaguchi anticipated would lead to the collapse of British rule in India.

              The idea that their western boundary would be controlled by a more friendly government was attractive.[17] It would also have been consistent with the idea, put about by Japanese propaganda, that Japanese expansion into Asia was part of an effort to support Asian government of Asia and against western colonialism
              ————————————————————————-

              Especially the 2nd para is of interests to Malaysians which goes to buttress my earlier points about the loyalty of Chinese and Indians in those Malayan days.

            2. i am referring to yr question “So why would a patriot want to go to another country to do its fighting?”

              i never claim cp a patriot, so what bubble r u talking about n what yr wiki material have anything to do with what i was trying to refute?

              1. HY

                Life and history is never so simple. I wish the truth can be as romantic as the press would like us to belive.

                BTW I am answering your question. The doctor did not go to China due to sudden love affair with the Chinese. There were bigger forces at work and that’s important to understand to know the motivation behind some of these players.

                For example, while Nehru the socialist had a soft spot for China and that’s why he sent the medical mission. BTW the doctor was also a communist who joined the CCP.

                On the other hand INA collaborated with the Japs. Many Indians from Malaya joined INA to fight the British to free India.

                1. Calvin. You are right about Bose and the INA. I was a boy refugee in India at the material time when the Japanese reached the borders of India as far as Imphal and lost and many INA soldiers died. You are right that there were superior forces involved. It was the Wehrmacht of Hitler which reached the mountains of the Caucasus and was hoping to linkup with the Japanese Imperial Army in India. I could hear Radio Berlin complete with Lord Haw Haw voice every night coming through the ether at Mussoorie, 7,000 ft high. The program usually began with a few bars from Hadyn’s ‘Trumpet Concerto’ and ended with Chopin’s ‘March Militaire’. It was weird and queer to me, a boy.
                  ‘Trumpet

                    1. Calvin. I love India, the Indians there and the Indian historical sites all over. Best curries are in India. The Indians treated us refugees well. This I will never forget.

                    2. calvin. All of us Malaysians will get along very well and fine as long as we remember a Malay is a Malay, a Chinese is a Chinese, an Indian is an Indian etc. Then, we will be aware of how to accomodate each other. The Swiss, the Swiss Germans, the Swiss French, the Swiss Italians, the Swiss Romansch (the Roman legions which deserted Rome 2,000 years ago and holed up in the high Alps) present a common front but quarrel behind their backs for 800 years of their Confederation.!!!

            1. u mean when cp was 1 to 19? dun just ‘confirm’, tell us about it. let the readers judge what u know deserve a ‘confirm’ or no. btw dun start the name calling n then withdraw like a turtle.

              1. HY. OK. From 1960 to 1992 (when Tan Sri C.C. Too died) Tan Sri the world expert on Communist Insurgency and Malaysia/Singapore/LKY politics briefed me 1 hour once a month. 8pm to 9pm (he was a bachelor and slept at 8pm and get up at 5am). He was the most Senior Chinese Adviser to the Federal Government. He worked with Tun Ghazali Shafie closely. His job was to decipher all the Marxist diatribe from the Voice of Malaya or messages caught on couriers and more. IT WAS A REAL REAL WAR. To pretend that nothing happened is a TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE TO ALL THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR COUNTRY. especially worshipping former enemies as heroes.

              2. ak, i think we need more evidence to assert any decipher code as ‘instruction’, we know voice of malaya (vom) main function is propaganda, not instruct. even if ithere is ‘instruction’, it can be from one communist in perak to another communist in kedah via vom. did cctoo ever say the ‘instruction’ was from either soviet n china, and instructed sort of strategise on how mcp should do or shouldnt do? or revolt, or insurrection, or arm struggle, or the killing in sg siput? no, i dont think we have enough document proof beside the many conjecture.

                cp did not battle the british could be simply because he was too young before 1942, n for the fact that we were colonised hundreds of years n may get used to it, i only started to resist one party dictatorial when i am eligible to vote, hence ww2 could be a wake up call to cp similarly reformasi to some of us. could it be cp want to fight the japanese is no different with the many muslim that want to fight the bully american? or do u mean an indian that fight the japanese because life is complicated and soft spot, while a chinese that fight the japanese is because life is simple and his ethnicity?

                pray tell which part u wish to confirm?

                1. HY. It was all very complicated in those early days after World War 2. British Colonial Malaya was very backward. The leaders were the Royal Sultans, a few KMT or English speaking Chinese. That was how it all started. Till today you have mobs of several thousands. Then, the British, the Malays led by the Royal Sultans, the Chinese, Indians and others were to one side and the Communist returned to the jungle. But the front political communist party was the Labour Party. The Americans had a US Military Medical Unit in KL since 1948 till 1982. I worked for them awhile. They know more about Malaya than us Malaysians. There you have the broad strokes of the political demography. How we all Malaysians got to this stage of development maybe contributed to our 3 civilizations, the British administrative infra, the natural resources etc. Now we quarrel for what I do not know. Frankly !

                2. u dont know? borrow from marx, the ‘haves’ trick and fool the ‘have nots’ into believing that their poverty is due to race, aint that complicated.

    3. i think the queer part is some of us have no issue with one that pronounce religion first, and dun question the loyalty that close to kmt like the tan father n son, or rashid maidin, or the many malay leftist. queer indeed.

  9. apo nok dikato, nasi sudah jadi bubur. antara yg dirancang bila merdeka ialah 1. bangsa – malayan (melayu) 2. bahasa – melayu & 3. tulisan – jawi. depa dah diberi harta yg tak ternilai (the most special privilege) & terus diwarisi oleh anak cucu cicit selagi ada bulan & bintang iaitu kerakyatan.

    siapa boleh jamin hak2 istimewa orang melayu, ketuanan melayu, ini tanah melayu & sbgnya terus kekal? dap dapat jadi keRAJAaan negeri p. pinang & kongsi2 selangor dgn pkr & pas kerana sistem british. ada untung diam. (head i win).

    bila british istihar chin peng & the gang adalah pengganas – bising & pusing. (tail you lose). malaya dah merdeka pun depa masih mengganas – istilah pejuang kemerdekaan tu mai kot mana? 90% pengundi cina dah tolak umno/bn, tapi najib masih terhegeh2 spt orang gila talak. melayu ni baik tak kena tempat, garang pun tak kena tempat. apa nak jadi leh!

  10. Hi Helen,

    Just wondering — did Chin Peng (& the Malayan Communist Party) have the same view on Chinese education as the leaders of the Chinese community from Malayan Chinese Association?

    Thanks.
    Greg

    1. Interesting question and I’ve not come across it being addressed.

      The communist communiques (regiments to each other) were in Chinese. Their leaflets and statements were also in Chinese although there were some in Malay as the MPAJU had Malay members.

          1. Hi Hitokiri,

            Yes — that was entirely possible. Communism the world over eventually has led to brutal and harsh dictatorship.

            Watch your this documentary [YouTube] if you have the time. A different type of dictatorship.

          2. Yes, I agree. To start,there would be a massive purge of all political opponents – either sending them to re-education (read gulags) or permanent solution (read: turture and kill). Then it would be a sinoficatio of Malaya where effectively the country would have become a China satellite.

      1. Ms H. According to my relative Tan Sri C. C. Too, the highest ranking Chinese Adviser to the Government, the Government gained most from messages captured from the terrorists or those who deserted.

    2. Ms H. According to Tan Sri C. C. Too, CP’s view will be those of the Marxist-Lenin-Maoist hard line ideology. It is interesting to note that he told me in the 1970s that when COMMUNISM COMES INTO CONTACT WITH CAPITALISM, COMMUNISM WILL BE CORRUPTED BY CAPITALISM. We see this happening in all the former Soviet Union countries and China. We were also talking about the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 10 failed Policies for Singapore. See how LKY zeal for the Singapore society was eventually corrupted by money, money and money

  11. I don’t recall any Chinese person I know who would idolise or support communism. Didn’t the Chinese here hated communism? I remember older folks saying how brutal the MCP were. Young men were even forced to join, family members killed, and they generally feared the MCP. I certainly do not recall any stories glorifying them…

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think those who were granted citizenship later were the older folks. Their children who were born here were already Malaysians. That means these older generation arrived before communism era in China. So, during the Japanese invasion, I suppose many would view the MCP in good light.

    I suppose those who lived through that period would know better. Could it be that even some from the older generation themselves were not directly affected. Or perhaps not everyone share the same experience. Even among the Chinese, there were those who support, and those who resisted the MCP like Datuk Yuen.

    But how it could evolve into CP’s evelated status of a “hero” is beyond me. If I remember correctly, CP was mostly forgotten until circa 2000 when he applied to return, and was rejected. His case went to the courts and that was when the publicity began.

    One thing I noticed is, individual issues and news, are often exploited to benefit the bigger agenda.

    In CP’s case, I think it should be a matter between him (when he was alive), his family and the govt.

    Nice historical points btw :)

    1. Realtron

      Is what?

      Is there a question or argument you like to put forth to another commenter, then do so.

      Hiding away and sporadically taking potshot at another is just cowardly.

      1. You agreeing with a deleted section of a comment does not surprise me, Calvin. As long as anyone is supportive of you it doesn’t really seem to matter what is said or in this case not said.

  12. I don’t think there is anything wrong in saying Chin Peng was a Malayan patriot leading a Malayan struggle. The MCP clearly had a vision of an independent Malaya where all are equal. It was the Alliance parties that a race identity and a blurry notion of a Malayan identity.

    Regarding education we accepted independence ‘as it is’, with various schooling systems. It was the attempt to dilute it with a one system that the communities resisted. It would have been better to standardise all schools and leave them as they are.

    1. temenggong. Fortunately, thanks to the previous BN Governments and the present, we can still talk freely.

  13. Ms H. I hope our compatriots realise that no democracy has ever voted a Communist party into power. What is the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP trying to achieve or show ? They already missed power in 3 EASY STEPS in 1997, 2008 and 2013. Now the DAP is lobbying for a mirage which disappeared in the 20th century ? It seems they are firing blanks all the time since 1966 !

  14. Ms H. Red hot for those interested in facts on Uncle Chin the No 1 terrorist and the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 10 failed Policies for Singapore.
    http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/10/03/glorifying-a-terrorist-called-chin-peng/
    http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/10/03/lky-the-man-and-his-mentality/
    Read the interesting comments in both.
    Looks like the Singaporeans were caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea or between a Rock and a Hard Place until our beloved Tunku despatched Tan Sri C.C.Too to cut the Gordian Knot in 1962 and saved the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew through locking up all the Communists for life in Operation Cold Store.

    1. Ms H. The 2 apt descriptions in www Tremeritus debunk the out of sync arguments of the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP once and for all.

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