Posted in Evangelista Bintang Tiga

Marina is beginning to sound like Guan Eng

Press statement by Marina Mahathir

Ikatan Muslimin Malaysia (Isma), in a flyer distributed at mosques throughout the country at prayers on Friday November 8, accused me of being one of the “dalangs” (masterminds) behind Comango.

This is wholly untrue. Although I am a Board member of Sisters in Islam, one of the NGOs in the coalition, I was not involved in any way in the Comango process.

Therefore, I view this allegation by Isma as defamatory and demand that Isma and its office bearers withdraw it immediately with a public clarification in all media, including social media, on my terms.

Failure to do so will result in my taking legal action against them.

I also view very seriously the re-publication of Isma’s flyer in various media, both mainstream and online, and regard this also as defamatory.

I therefore request that all media publish my clarification immediately as well or also face legal action. – 10 Nov 2013

Source: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/sideviews/article/i-am-not-involved-in-comango-process-marina-mahathir

_________________________________________________________________

amarina
Is Ambiga a litigation lawyer by any chance?

Helen Ang’s comment

Marina is in fact one-up on Guan Eng who only threatens to sue Utusan (all the time) and other newspapers (over the Rainbow reports) whereas MM is now threatening to sue all the media, including online media where many of their small operations news portals had republished the Isma flyer.

Her brother Mukhriz’s understated response to the nasty, slandering online press reflected grace under pressure. Marina’s hectoring, on the other hand, makes her sound like a Dapster. Like YB “I-will-sue-you”-Guan Eng, to be precise.

For the record

One of the Isma flyers below.

comango 2

Marina Mahathir states that she is “not involved in any way in the Comango process”.

According to Isma’s reading, the Camango demands are interpreted as wanting:

(1) Freedom to apostasize

(2) Legitimizing same sex relations (LGBT)

(3) Abolishing the Malay ‘special position’

(4) Defining “racism” according to secular Western understanding

(5) Rejection of hudud / syariah criminal law

(6) Allowing the spread of Syiah and defending the propaganda (presumably the ‘Allah’ word) spread by other religions

Marina organized the fast for the non-Muslims with Scissorati Nikki Cheong, and publicized by The J-Star
Last Ramadan, Marina organized the fast for the non-Muslims with Scissorati Nikki Cheong, and publicized by The J-Star

Marina Mahathir: “I am not involved in COMANGO process”

The J-Star had previously published Marina’s book titled ‘In Liberal Doses‘.

Now Marina is disclaiming that she has any involvement at all with the Comango process which seeks (1) to (6) listed above despite her very much publicized presence in the NGO scene.

Her Bangsar Malaysia friends are fond of saying that Muslims are so easily confused because Malays fear the Christians using the Allah word.

Now we’re left to wonder whether Marina is herself confused as to whether she is a liberal or not.

Note to readers: Do be careful what you comment below. You wouldn’t want Marina to sue you and me both, now would you?

Continues:

Isma challenges Marina to state her stand

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

44 thoughts on “Marina is beginning to sound like Guan Eng

  1. Do the majority of the people really want to legitimize same-sex sex?

    And soon have to put up with gay pride parades? Neither the followers of Prophet Jesus a.s. nor of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. would ever condone it …. no matter how liberal Anwar Ibrahim might interpret his Islam to be.

    [YouTube]

    1. We are not talking about the followers of the Prophets. In fact no religion ever condones homosexuality.

      What we have here are a bunch of deviants using liberalism to augment their case, a case which never existed.

      If a vote were to take place, in which case every single adult is asked to vote on whether same sex marriage should be legalized or not, and if it turns out that the majority voted no to same sex marriage, it will not deter these deviants.

      On the contrary, they will say that they will have more “sessions” to “engage” with the public, sessions by the way, are means of brainwashing people into accepting the position of the propagandists.

      The best way to deal with these people is to ignore them. Hong Kong just had a rally for gay rights and the Special Administrative Region’s Government just ignored them.

      But of course, just ignoring them will not work if we do not have the necessary means to deter them. To deter them, adequate laws must be in place.

      Speaking of laws, I would like to see our lawmakers table a law that defines marriage as a union between and man and a woman. Since a certain party claims to fight for Islam, it would be interesting indeed how their MPs vote.

      1. re: Speaking of laws, I would like to see our lawmakers table a law that defines marriage as a union between and man and a woman. Since a certain party claims to fight for Islam, it would be interesting indeed how their MPs vote.

        I’m with you on that sir/madam, and i’m sure many decent people with sound hearts would support that motion. But as for the ulamak who claim to be “fighting for hudud” it’s become impossible to trust them on this issue, seeing how enamoured they are with Anwar Ibrahim whose sexual exploitations are legion worldwide, by now

        http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/20/international-jurists-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-woman/?ac=1

  2. Salam..

    hmmmm…. ngaku board member sis.. sis dlm comango… comango tuntut kawin sejenis/kawin dua dua jenis(madu llki n ppuan kua kua kua.. ngeh ngeh…)

    kalimah Allah boleh digunakan dlm penulisan n terjemahan penulisan kristian… jadinye bkn kew dia terbabit sama walo tak secara langsung dlm tuntutan comango tuh.. ntah lew… pening pening haku pening… kalo haku dah tao apew yg di tuntut dah tentu tentu haku kuar jew… apew barang dok menempek lagi dah tak sependapat… maaf marina… kita takleh selindung balik lalang sepokok…..

    1. sis dlm comango spt pas, pkr & dap dlm pakatan rakyat. satu kata mau hudud, lagi satu kata over my dead body, satu kata abc&d, lagi satu pulak kata ini pandangan parti bukan dari pakatan rakyat. bn pun 2×5.

    1. We already see that Helen Ang is mixing around with far right groups such as Perkasa and Isma. Even Khairy Jamaluddin is considered “too liberal” by her (emphasis added on the quotation marks).

      1. My critical view of Perkasa is longstanding, so I have no need to explain myself to you.

        I blogged “Muslim extremist group Isma”, https://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/guan-eng-umno-treat-chinese-like-second-class-citizens/

        I also blogged “It is DAP Christian fanatics and the Muslim extremists who are screwing up the relationship between the adherents of the various faiths”, and yes, Isma is mentioned in the same breath/ See https://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/ironic-that-pass-mujahid-should-now-be-camping-in-the-churches/

        I also wrote:

        “For too long, the DAP evangelista hypocrites have been allowed to get away with playing both sides. Zaid Ibrahim had said that the government allowed an MIC Deputy Minister to face down Muslim extremists on his own.”

        Your DAP evangelista politicians have said absolutely nothing, silent as a church mouse, about Isma or religious extremism when YB Kamalanathan was bullied. Your DAP evangelista politicians said nothing because they themselves are the Christian fanatics and fascists. They are the other side of the same coin of the Muslims your criticize.

        1. “Your DAP evangelista politicians have said absolutely nothing, silent as a church mouse, about Isma or religious extremism w…”

          http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/stop-ritual-slaughter-of-cows-in-school-compounds-urges-dap-mp

          Some politicians from the Opposition have objected to the practice. He is a DAP politician too. Another is Kulasegaran from Perak. So there you go.

          “They are the other side of the same coin of the Muslims your criticize.”

          If they are on the other side of the same coin, then they would be advocating religious supremacy and seperatism, and threats of violence toward other religious and ethnic groups. So far, the ones doing that nonsense are the extremists such as Perkasa and Isma.

          1. re: “Some politicians from the Opposition have objected to the practice. He is a DAP politician too. Another is Kulasegaran from Perak. So there you go.”

            Hullo, don’t lah try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs. I already blogged about Kula’s objection on Nov 2, see https://helenang.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/this-deepavali-shine-the-floodlights-on-two-faced-firsters-and-expose-the-hypocrites/

            The operative words is DAP “evangelista”. Yes, Kula belongs to DAP, the 1.0 version but he’s not a Christian and much less an evangelista.

            re: “If they are on the other side of the same coin, then they would be advocating religious supremacy and seperatism, and threats of violence toward other religious and ethnic groups. So far, the ones doing that nonsense are the extremists such as Perkasa and Isma.”

            Let’s see if others share your opinion.

            You’re asserting:

            (1) The DAP evangelistas have never advocated their religious supremacy nor regarded other Malaysians as “low class”.

            (2) The Dapsters have never promoted separatism as in schools, in the workplace and in the choice of neighbourhood wherein to live.

            (3) Dapsters have never uttered threats of violence toward other religious and ethnic groups or people who do not share their ideology (such as Ridhuan Tee and other “running dogs”).

            (4) The ones doing that nonsense are the extremists such as Perkasa and Isma but evangelistas and Dapsters must not be regarded as the same. Only the Malay Muslims are to be blamed. The Chinese and the Christians are faultless.

            Basically (1)-(4) are the claims made by AC-DC.

            1. “The operative words is DAP “evangelista”. Yes, Kula belongs to DAP, the 1.0 version but he’s not a Christian and much less an evangelista.”

              So, do you need a specific DAP politician to hold a press conference? Is this another of your attempts to subdivide again by religion and race?

              Now, if say, Hannah Yeoh or Anthony Loke had made the comments, you would have gone to town with an article accusing them of attacking Muslim customs and are anti-Islam. Followed by a cascade of photographs of Hannah in a baju kurung. Also as usual, one third of the article will go further off-tangent by lambasting The Star newspaper.

              1. re: “Hannah Yeoh or Anthony Loke had made the comments, you would have gone to town with an article accusing them of attacking Muslim customs”

                Don’t be a putar-belit Iguana Eng lah.

                (1) Hannah Yeoh was as silent as a church mouse over the cow slaughtering, and that’s a fact.

                (2) Even if she did voice her disapproval (she didn’t but I’ll just play along with you — IF she did), how can I possibly accuse her of attacking Muslim customs when in my own blog postings I had consistently disagreed with the korban being conducted in schools not just this round but in the past years too.

                For you to make your feeble attempt at this argument just goes to show what kind of people you Dapsters are.

                1. ‘We already see that Helen Ang is mixing around with far right groups such as Perkasa and Isma.’

                  Helen, for someone who had been trolling your blog for quite some time now, this is pretty moronic!!!

                2. Is this AC-DC some kinda semantic electrical storm zapping wildly between direct and alternate modes?

                  1. Seeing your joy in conjuring random one liners, may I ask is your monicker ‘hay-wire’ any indication of your state of mind?

                3. “(2) Even if she did voice her disapproval (she didn’t but I’ll just play along with you — IF she did), how can I possibly accuse her of attacking Muslim customs when in my own blog postings I had consistently disagreed with the korban being conducted in schools not just this round but in the past years too.”

                  You disagree with “korban” rituals being performed in school compounds.

                  Yet, you support Isma in their attack on Marina Mahathir.

                  Isma, the supremacist group who believes that other races and religions deserve no say in our country:

                  http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/we-want-to-slaughter-cows-so-back-off-muslim-group-tells-hindu-parents

                  http://news.malaysia.msn.com/tmi/muslim-group-says-rm10-million-klang-temple-will-send-out-wrong-message

                  1. I’ve already earlier pointed out to you several previous blog postings where I had said that Isma is “extremist”. What else do you want me to add?

                    On the MM score, I happen to share the Muslim view that she should make clear her position if she want to threaten legal action.

                    Mind you, it is not only Isma that she’s bullying but every single mini news portal and sopo blog that reproduced the Isma flyer. Quite a number of Malay bloggers (whom I read) are affected by her gertak.

                    Like I said, she’s talking like a Dapster and behaving like a DAP SuperCyber Bully.

              2. Now, if say, Hannah Yeoh or Anthony Loke had made the comments, you would have gone to town with an article accusing them of attacking Muslim customs and are anti-Islam. Followed by a cascade of photographs of Hannah in a baju kurung. Also as usual, one third of the article will go further off-tangent by lambasting The Star newspaper.
                But Hishamuddin kissing a Keris is a Malay custom.

                1. re: “Followed by a cascade of photographs of Hannah in a baju kurung.”

                  Don’t putar-belit.

                  Lots of Chinese women wear baju kurung – school teachers, government office staff, BN politician wives, those attending official functions.

                  If Hannah wants to wear baju kurung there is nothing unusual in that.

                  It is her wearing TUDUNG and always occupying the mosques that is an issue because MAIS has already warned that masjid dan surau adalah tempat ibadah khusus untuk orang Islam dan bukannya disalahgunakan untuk tujuan berpolitik.

                  It is sheer hypocrisy when Hannah threatens to make a police report against anyone who (wrongly) says that she has embraced Islam.

                  And as for your second putar-belit, please point out where on this page is there any mention of Hisham and his keris.

  3. Sorry it should read as

    Speaking of laws, I would like to see our lawmakers table a law that defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Since a certain party claims to fight for Islam, it would be interesting indeed how their MPs vote.

  4. Kesian dia. Bertaubat la… Mayb she started as personal attack on her dad but then turned to be natinal agenda and got into deep tht she just too ego to turn back and undone. Melayu mudah lupa and she is 1 of them. Maybe dad was talking about her…

  5. Her views have become too liberal for me to swallow, same as RPK’s writings. I have quit reading her articles in the Star for some time now.

    I am not sure who she’s trying to impress more, God or the Bangsarians.

    1. I m sure she’s not out to impress anyone. With that ego of hers, she’s out only to impress herself.

  6. To people and organisations such as Isma, their ideal vision of Malaysia is a fascist theocratic state ruled by Ayatollahs, Muftis, and other Club of Doomers. No rights for other races and religions to practice their cultures and faiths. No permission to construct their temples and churches.

    1. To people and organisations such as the evangelistas, their ideal vision of Malaysia is a fascist theocratic state ruled by their adored DAP preachers, charismatic lay pastors, and other Club of Doomers. No rights for other races and religions to practice their cultures and faiths. Even what belongs to others, such as their very god Allah will be taken away from them and His essence subverted by these thieving evangelistas.

      1. “No rights for other races and religions to practice their cultures and faiths”

        Are Malaysian Christians complaining about the renovations of a Hindu temple in Klang?

        Are Malaysian Christians the ones who are demolishing temples?

        Do Malaysian Christians parade a dismembered cow head to protest a Hindu temple nearby?

        Do Malaysian Christians have taxpayer funded government departments that go around arresting other “deviant” Christians?

        “Even what belongs to others, such as their very god Allah will be taken away from them and His essence subverted by these thieving evangelistas.”

        It is not Christians who are prohibiting others from using the name of Allah or the Malay language.

        And by the way, a quote from one of your regular readers:

        “….and there are others too, on other gov. land. Scattering all over places. Just simply build illegally, do ext and renovations and claim the temples have the privileges of religion rights. Absurd !
        I do hope, gov. do total clean up.

        No consideration that these “illegal” temples might have been built long ago before independent Malaya existed. Perhaps that is totally fine for you.

        1. re: “Are Malaysian Christians complaining about the renovations of a Hindu temple in Klang?”

          Today the Malaysian Christians are the staunchest supporters of Pakatan who want to install Anwar Ibrahim as the next PM. Not only is Anwar a Muslim supremacist (in the way that none of the Umno PMs have been), Anwar is also infamous for his remark in March 1998 threatening a Hindu temple in Penang that he would make sure the “temple’s bells stopped ringing”.

          re: “Are Malaysian Christians the ones who are demolishing temples?”

          If they are in power, I believe they would demolish temples in the same way they have already demolished several Malay villages in Penang in order to allow real estate ‘development’. It’s not for nothing that the DAP has been given the nickname Developers Above People. Ditto the Chinese logging companies destroying the Borneo rainforests and the Chinese oil palm companies burning forests to clear the land in Sumatera.

          Watch the following Kg Buah Pala YouTube,

          “Apa yang kami tidak faham ialah mengapa kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat ini, dia bukan nak selamat kampung [sebaliknya] nak roboh kampung. Bila di bawah pimpinan Barisan Nasional, 30 tahun kami dok bincang, bincang, bincang 30 tahun tapi tak roboh le.” — KBP resident Sugumaran

          re: “Do Malaysian Christians parade a dismembered cow head to protest a Hindu temple nearby?”

          Malaysian Christian missionaries destroy Chinese home altars and idol statues which they regard as heathen.

          re: “Do Malaysian Christians have taxpayer funded government departments that go around arresting other ‘deviant’ Christians?”

          The lunatics are running the asylum. It is the ‘deviant’ Christians who are in the driver’s seat.

          re: “It is not Christians who are prohibiting others from using the name of Allah or the Malay language.”

          And for what reason do the Christians want to use ‘Allah’ in the first place?

          re: “No consideration that these “illegal” temples might have been built long ago before independent Malaya existed. Perhaps that is totally fine for you.”

          What a biawak putar-belit you are. If I did not put up some many Hindu temple threads, there would not be any occasion/opportunity for my regular reader to have put up his/her comment.

          In my blog we discuss the temple issues. In the evangelista political cyberspace, the deafening silence on Indian-Hindu issues “is totally fine for you” and your DAP 3.0 leaders.

          1. “Today the Malaysian Christians are the staunchest supporters of Pakatan who want to install Anwar Ibrahim as the next PM. Not only is Anwar a Muslim supremacist…”

            Your pro UMNO, pro right wing readers think otherwise; that he is a liberal.

            “If they are in power, I believe they would demolish temples in the same way they have already demolished several Malay villages in Penang ”

            You believe. Can you give any concrete evidence that is not based on your bias and double standards?

            Meanwhile, we have at least one frequent reader who hopes for a ‘total clean up’.

            By the way, the woman who causes you to tear your hair out and produce a litany of rambling articles had donated funds for a temple, among others.

            [YouTube]

            “Ditto the Chinese logging companies destroying the Borneo rainforests and the Chinese oil palm companies burning forests to clear the land in Sumatera.”

            Those logging corporations are allied with Taib Mahmud, Musa Aman, and the Barisan Nasional component parties. It is actually the NGOs and Opposition parties who are raising issues of deforestation, the relocation of Penan tribespeople, and rampant dam construction.

            “re: “Do Malaysian Christians parade a dismembered cow head to protest a Hindu temple nearby?”
            Malaysian Christian missionaries destroy Chinese home altars and idol statues which they regard as heathen.”

            Last I checked, there has not been any uproar from Christians over other houses of worship in their midst. Not unlike those fanatics from Isma, which you now (hypocritically) support in their attack on Marina Mahathir.


            re: “Do Malaysian Christians have taxpayer funded government departments that go around arresting other ‘deviant’ Christians?”
            The lunatics are running the asylum. It is the ‘deviant’ Christians who are in the driver’s seat.”

            This sounds like a typical Helen Ang Runaround Red Herring Reply (HARRHR).

            The Malaysian Christians do not have religious departments that go around arresting Christians from other denominations.

            “And for what reason do the Christians want to use ‘Allah’ in the first place?”

            They have been using it before Malaya was granted Independence. We also saw from the uproar by the East Malaysian politicians, both from Barisan Nasional and the Opposition, that the word is used by the Bumiputera Christians.

            “In my blog we discuss the temple issues.”

            By discuss you mean throwing their supremacist attitude around, denigrating Hindu beliefs and practices, and labelling Indians as “violent” and “people who fabricate things”.

            It appears you are more the “putar-belit biawak” here.

            1. re: “a Muslim supremacist” / “liberal”

              Aaaah, two-faced hypocrite. No wonder the DAP evangelistas are willing to accept him as their coalition front man.

              re: “they have already demolished several Malay villages in Penang” / “You believe. Can you give any concrete evidence that is not based on your bias and double standards?”

              My bias and double standards? Do you Dapsters have any mirror at home? To answer you, Kampung Pokok Assam, Kampung Binjai and Kampung Genting. There are plenty more, but these were the ones I noted in Oct 2011.

              re: “By the way, the woman who causes you to tear your hair out and produce a litany of rambling articles had donated funds for a temple, among others.”

              Aiyah Mr Dyslexic Dave. Her donation was in Feb 2012. How many times of you want to repeatedly bring this up in my blog?

              Btw, the last I heard, the Selangor Aduns memberontak against Khalid Ibrahim b’cos he’s too stingy in disbursing allocations but has instead accumulated RM3 billion in reserves for his state. So your Dapster & PKR Aduns actually want more $$$ money $$$ lah and they’re so sore that the former Corporate-Man-MB is keeping a tight hold on the purse strings.

              What do you think your Dapster idols are in politics for? To serve the rakyat and to give donations to an Indian temple in Feb 2012, wakakakaka.

              re: “It is actually the NGOs and Opposition parties who are raising issues of deforestation, the relocation of Penan tribespeople, and rampant dam construction.”

              Oh. So since when am I forbidden to bring up the issue of deforestation?

              re: “Last I checked, there has not been any uproar from Christians over other houses of worship in their midst.”

              And you’re not denying nor disputing my account that Malaysian Christian missionaries destroy Chinese home altars and idol statues which they regard as heathen?

              re: “The Malaysian Christians do not have religious departments that go around arresting Christians from other denominations.”

              If they can form the Purple Shirts and conduct ‘Hitler Youth’ camps, what makes you think that given the power they will not have their own (or control the existing ones) religious departments that go around arresting people?

              Who is more liberal? Do you recall any BN chairman (Tun Hussein? Tun Razak? Najib?) who went around imposing as many gag orders as LGE does? Have you ever seen even the Tun going berserk at reporters like LGE does? Does Johor have a Johor Times as compared to Selangor Times, Selangorkini, Selangor TV, Media Selangorku?

              Come on lah. You live in Penang, right? Takkan you’re not aware of the level of brainwashing among the Chinese populace there, esp. island side?

              re: “We also saw from the uproar by the East Malaysian politicians, both from Barisan Nasional and the Opposition, that the word is used by the Bumiputera Christians.”

              On this (native Christians) I won’t dispute you. Sabah & S’wak have to sort out their own future. Good luck to them.

              re: “In my blog we discuss the temple issues.” / “By discuss you mean throwing their supremacist attitude around, denigrating Hindu beliefs and practices, and labelling Indians as “violent” and “people who fabricate things”.

              I do not censor their comments just like I have never censored yours. If you think they have a supremacist attitude, what do you plan to do about it?

              1. “Aaaah, two-faced hypocrite. No wonder the DAP evangelistas are willing to accept him as their coalition front man.”

                Or two completely conflicting statements, just like the propaganda from UMNO and Perkasa that ‘Malaysia will become a Christian state under Pakatan Rakyat’ and propaganda from MCA that ‘Malaysia will become a Islamic Hudud state under Pakatan Rakyat’.

                “Aiyah Mr Dyslexic Dave. Her donation was in Feb 2012. How many times of you want to repeatedly bring this up in my blog?”

                Are you confusing me for another person?

                Back to the issue, you can use and rehash a photo of Hannah Yeoh taken years ago. So why not a donation done last year?

                “Oh. So since when am I forbidden to bring up the issue of deforestation?”

                I did not say you are not permitted to bring up deforestation.

                “And you’re not denying nor disputing my account that Malaysian Christian missionaries destroy Chinese home altars and idol statues which they regard as heathen?”

                I am aware of some newly converted Christians destroying their articles of their previous faith. Do they go around trying to force other people from practising their religion and cultures? The majority do not.

                re: “If they can form the Purple Shirts and conduct ‘Hitler Youth’ camps, what makes you think that given the power they will not have their own (or control the existing ones) religious departments that go around arresting people?”

                Which Purple Shirt Christian militia is this? Please provide evidence and not fabricate nonsense.

                There are the Royal Rangers and Boys Brigade scout-like organisations, but before you go and accuse them of militia training, these organisations do not go around arresting people for breaking “Christian law” or such nonsense.

                “Does Johor have a Johor Times as compared to Selangor Times, Selangorkini, Selangor TV, Media Selangorku?”

                The Barisan Nasional-led Johor state government has things greater than a simple community newspaper and online TV. It is called Utusan, RTM, and TV3.

                “Come on lah. You live in Penang, right? Takkan you’re not aware of the level of brainwashing among the Chinese populace there, esp. island side?”

                I do not live in Penang. Are you assuming that I live there because I disagree with Barisan Nasional??

                “On this (native Christians) I won’t dispute you. Sabah & S’wak have to sort out their own future. Good luck to them.”

                That is right.

                “I do not censor their comments just like I have never censored yours. If you think they have a supremacist attitude, what do you plan to do about it?”

                You do not have to censor their remarks, but try not to pull such blatant double standards by accusing others of something when your ardent supporters show far worse characteristics.

                As for me, what do I plan to do about it? Not censor them, but criticise their views.

                1. re: “Or two completely conflicting statements, just like the propaganda from UMNO and Perkasa that ‘Malaysia will become a Christian state under Pakatan Rakyat’ and propaganda from MCA that ‘Malaysia will become a Islamic Hudud state under Pakatan Rakyat’.”

                  The statements conflict but seen from their respective POV, that’s what each side believes to be the (their) truth.

                  re: “I am aware of some newly converted Christians destroying their articles of their previous faith. Do they go around trying to force other people from practising their religion and cultures? The majority do not.”

                  Depends on whether by “other people”, you encompass their family members, relatives and friends. One story going around is that Ridhuan Tee sobbed on TV saying that his parents would go to hell (because they’re kafir). The Born Again Christians are like RT.

                  re: “Which Purple Shirt Christian militia is this? Please provide evidence and not fabricate nonsense.”

                  null

                  (Note: I did NOT say “Christian militia”, you did. I merely said Purple Shirts.)

                  re: “The Barisan Nasional-led Johor state government has things greater than a simple community newspaper and online TV. It is called Utusan, RTM, and TV3.”

                  And the DAP has the J-Star Media Group which reaches an audience of 5.63 million audience.

                  re: “I do not live in Penang. Are you assuming that I live there because I disagree with Barisan Nasional??”

                  My mistake. I’d presumed you were Mr Dyslexic Dave who mentioned before that he works in the FTZ. Also, some other reader has submitted the HY donation video before to my blog.

                  re: “when your ardent supporters show far worse characteristics”

                  Despite your accusation above, you still have the total freedom to comment freely in my blog. On the other hand, I am unable to feature my writings in the portals, not because the editors reject my articles but because the Dapsters there are worse than Mao Zedong’s Red Guards.

                  And secondly, the purported pro-Umno ardent supporters do not comprise 95% of the commenters here whereas on the other side, the pro-DAP ardent supporters hog 95% of the reader space there.

  7. Any arguments to frame the Evangelists as a threat to Malaysian order are untenable. As a political force they are a threat to UMNO hegemony which is perfectly valid within the democratic context. To argue that under UMNO, Islam has not been used to keep the Non Malays and Malays in place is also untenable.

    When words such as “baiting” and “provocation” are used to justify the placating of religious sensitivities in the event of religious violence then we have truly wondered into fascist territory and we should not make claims of being democratic (sic).

    Never mind that those same sensitivities have differing levels of traction within the Malay community, which is why Establishment partisans moan of the disunity in their community.

    DSAI’s glasnost may be met with skepticism but the allegations of religious extremism is not credible, since depending on the time of day, he is either a sodomizing liberal or a closet/down low Islamist, who has managed to con a certain segment of the voting demographic into believing his is a reformer.

    Claiming that the Evangelists do not care about Indians is not a credible counter argument especially, when the UMNO state has been screwing Indians for decades; with the help of those house negroes the MIC.

    The very fact that the toxic responses you get on this blog when you highlight Indian issues, by the very demographic that wants UMNO to remain in power forever, should tell you something of the lure of Evangelism or at least a doctrine that promise equality at the expense of individualism.

    But then again in Malaysia, being Malay and Muslim is not mutually exclusive, this should come as no surprise.

    1. re: “To argue that under UMNO, Islam has not been used to keep the Non Malays and Malays in place is also untenable.”

      To argue that under Pakatan, Islam will not be put to more severe use to keep the Non Malays and Malays in place is plain delusional.

      PAS has never wavered from its hudud and Islamic state ambitions and DAP is on silent mode, which has come to typify the party 3.0 version today, http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/11/11/PAS-wants-Syariah-criminal-law-in-the-aftermath-of-Jaip-officers-murder.aspx

      null

      http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2013/10/22/malay-dap-mp-supports-syariah-law/

      re: “When words such as “baiting” and “provocation” are used to justify the placating of religious sensitivities in the event of religious violence then we have truly wondered into fascist territory and we should not make claims of being democratic (sic).”

      If trying to steal ‘Allah’ is not provocation, I don’t know what is.

      And if the current evangelista responses to the Muslim outrage is not baiting, then I want to go on record as saying, “Keep on baiting at your own peril”.

      re: “the allegations of religious extremism is not credible”

      Suddenly his founding of ABIM is wiped off the slate as well as all the Islamization initiatives that he put created and in place in the government bureaucracy should be credited to some other Umno leader, is it? I thought the favourite Dapster narrative goes along the storyline that Dr M co-opted Anwar primarily due to his Islamic credentials, no? Or the story line can weave snakeline depending on the time of day?

      re: “he is either a sodomizing liberal”

      Karpal was the one who first brought up the Azizan Abu Bakar (Wan Azizah’s driver) expose of Anwar as a sodomite, in Parliament back in 1997 (see Hansard here).

      re: “Claiming that the Evangelists do not care about Indians is not a credible counter argument especially, when the UMNO state has been screwing Indians for decades; with the help of those house negroes the MIC.”

      Do show some instances of the DAP evangelista politicians caring about Indians. I’m all ears. Don’t cite Kula, okay, he’s not Christian.

      re: “The very fact that the toxic responses you get on this blog when you
      highlight Indian issues”

      I see far more toxic responses in the pro-Pakatan portals. Aren’t you the one who’s always complaining about OYT et al. Just take any one of Commander Thayaparan’s articles on Indian issues and see if you can find a single response thread where they fail to label him “toddy drinker” and where they avoid calling the non-Pakatan Indians (like Hindraf) “pariah”, “thambi” and other demeaning insults.

      re: “by the very demographic that wants UMNO to remain in power forever, should tell you something of the lure of Evangelism or at least a doctrine that promise equality at the expense of individualism”

      The demography has no illusions about Umno. Their ire against Najib, KJ, Hisham and Shahrizat and Umno’s ineptitude in general is patent even in the reader comments you read here. However they have appraised DAP 3.0 and the evangelistas to be the greater menace and they are right.

      The demography that believes the country will overturn turn into Utopia if only the gomen is immediately changed does not have the same critical capacity (or maybe willingness to be more exact) to evaluate Pakatan as the Malay-Muslim demography in my blog (that you scoff at) possess to evaluate Umno.

      In case you missed it, read http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/no-holds-barred/60378-the-snake-oil-merchant

      1. Re: “To argue that under Pakatan, Islam will not be put to more severe use to keep the Non Malays and Malays in place is plain delusional.”

        How is it delusional when the intransigence of Islam is being constrained by the rise of the Evangelists, the comments of the Establishment that Pakatan is comprised of traitors to Islam – Anwar and PAS or the Establishment narrative that Islam is under threat by Pakatan?

        You cannot really make this argument when there are elements in UMNO who really want an alliance with PAS or you know the decades of Islamization that has changed this country.

        Re:” PAS has never wavered from its hudud and Islamic state ambitions and DAP is on silent mode, which has come to typify the party 3.0 version today,”

        I don’t consider the statements by the DAP that their stand on the Islamic state is unacceptable even though they don’t rise to every provocative statement by PAS, as silent mode.

        LGE, et all, the so-called Christian Right are painted by pro Establishment types as enemies of Islam and Capitalist of the highest order. Their very political existence points to anything but silent mode.

        Re:” If trying to steal ‘Allah’ is not provocation, I don’t know what is.”

        You cannot steal a word. Appropriate it yes, but that’s the advantage of freedom of speech and expression.

        Re:” And if the current evangelista responses to the Muslim outrage is not baiting, then I want to go on record as saying, “Keep on baiting at your own peril”.

        Oh I get that. But if you subscribe to this line of thinking then you should not claim allegiance to the democratic process or principles or ideals and just pay homage to the altar of fascism.

        Re:” Suddenly his founding of ABIM is wiped off the slate as well as all the Islamization initiatives that he put created and in place in the government bureaucracy should be credited to some other Umno leader, is it? I thought the favourite Dapster narrative goes along the storyline that Dr M co-opted Anwar primarily due to his Islamic credentials, no? Or the story line can weave snakeline depending on the time of day?”

        Political conversion isn’t anything new. Is UMNO immune from this ? Didn’t former Prime Minister declare Malaysia an Islamic state ? Even now Anwar relies on his moderate Islamic credentials as opposed to his hard line past, with more success than UMNO’s attempts to placate the lunatic fringe. Even you went through a political conversion over the KBP issue and I don’t hold you to your previous comments.

        Re:” Karpal was the one who first brought up the Azizan Abu Bakar (Wan Azizah’s driver) expose of Anwar as a sodomite, in Parliament back in 1997 (see Hansard here). “

        Uh-huh and now Anwar is running on the reform ticket with his Pakatan partners including Karpal. Your point is ? Mine was that the Establishment can’t decide if he is a liberal sodomite or in your case a closet Islamist. Well actually your line fits neatly with the MCA line of Islam baiting. It would be a good strategy, if the lunatic fringe in UMNO was not so vocal.

        Re:” Do show some instances of the DAP evangelista politicians caring about Indians. I’m all ears. Don’t cite Kula, okay, he’s not Christian.”

        I never made the argument that they were, merely questioned it as a counter argument.

        Re:” I see far more toxic responses in the pro-Pakatan portals……..”

        Ok fair enough. I think the toxicity level when it comes to Indians is high on both camps.

        Re: “The demography has no illusions about Umno. Their ire against Najib, KJ, Hisham and Shahrizat and Umno’s ineptitude in general is patent even in the reader comments you read here. However they have appraised DAP 3.0 and the evangelistas to be the greater menace and they are right. “

        Now what they have done, this certain segment of UMNO supporters, is to identify a threat to their chosen political party and ideology. They don’t rile against UMNO’s ineptitude but rather subscribe to a lunatic line that would further erode democratic principles and ideals, which they believe UMNO should adopt.

        Re:” The demography that believes the country will overturn turn into Utopia if only the gomen is immediately changed does not have the same critical capacity (or maybe willingness to be more exact) to evaluate Pakatan as the Malay-Muslim demography in my blog (that you scoff at) possess to evaluate Umno.”

        I have always argued at the lack of self-criticism of the DAP supporters. My post on this blog is testament to that. However I would not argue as you do that an ideological schism within UMNO as evidenced by your readers, as anything approaching evaluation.

        Re: RPK, no I didn’t miss that particular post.

        Re: Post #23 “Will you ever hear anything like that from the DAP evangelista supporter?”

        Yes I have when they go on about DAP members who do not tow the party line. Like I said, this does not amount to evaluation.

        1. Edit to add:

          And Helen, please point me to where I scoff at your Malay-Muslim demography. As it is I have a stalker on this board but on the whole engage in an acceptable manner, unless you think otherwise.

          Sure I have flamed and been flamed but scoff at a particular community ?

  8. I wonder why she reacted the way she did. In the past, she would just respond through her column or blog.

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