A recent opinion survey carried out by the National Civics Bureau has provided us with a rough framework from which to start our discussion on differing ethnic perspectives.
Like it or not, In Denial Syndrome or not, these perceptions below are out there at large and embedded within the Malay mindset.
All the following points listed are extracted from the results of the NCB survey – details here and its source, the Malaysiakini chart.
What I’ve done is to merely reorder the details under five categories to facilitate a thematic grouping of ideas. The planks of ‘Malay mindset’ viz. Sino relations are compiled in descending order — from the more concrete items to the more speculative ones, each according to the possibility of their being verified/ascertained.
It is within the means of the numerous think-tanks, public opinion polling centres, government agencies/units, etc to investigate and conduct the relevant studies. The data that they collect will then reveal the true facts and figures.
Malay perspectives (test study group)
I. Views that can be somewhat
collaborated corroborated or somewhat disproved
(True or false?)
(i) “Chinese private schools do not teach Malay history”
(ii) “In Chinese companies, Malays salaries always lower than the Chinese”
(iii) “Chinese only award contracts to Chinese companies”
(iv) “Chinese have taken control of the private sector”
(v) “Chinese colonized Malay land by their economic powers”
II. Race issues and nation-building
(Believe or disbelieve?)
(i) “Education system is fair / only Malaysia is practicing vernacular school system in the world”
(ii) “Chinese ruined ethnic unity by rejecting Wawasan schools”
(iii) “Chinese are unpatriotic because Chinese do not like to learn bahasa Malaysia”
(iv) “Chinese jealous of Malays’ special rights”
(v) “Chinese do not support ethnic unity”
III. Religion and the Malaysian identity
(Permissible or non-negotiable?)
(i) “Chinese do not accept Islam as state religion”
(ii) “Chinese are unpatriotic because Chinese do not accept Islam”
(iii) “Chinese are unpatriotic because Chinese do not respect the Malay rulers”
IV. “Melayu diutamakan” vs jus soli
(Agree or disagree?)
(i) “Chinese must admit the fact that Malays are the landowners of Malaysia”
(ii) “Malay are masters, Chinese are guests to Malay land”
V. Perceptions that cause instability
(Dangerous misconception or storm in teacup?)
(i) “Chinese look down on Malays”
(ii) “Chinese keep demanding but never respect Malay thinking”
(iii) “Malays always fulfill Chinese request”
(iv) “Chinese have obtained too much / Malays have tolerated a lot”
226 thoughts on “What Malays think about Chinese: True or not?”
My opinion on :
I. Views that can be somewhat collaborated or somewhat disproved
i. I have no personal experience, but isn’t the Sejarah syllabus standardise?
ii. I once worked for a Chinese company. I was paid less salary and I quit when they paid me a lower bonus compared to a Chinese colleague who did less work than me.
iii. Yes. Even the bankers that came were from Chinese banks.
iv. Yes. When you know that almost all your supply chains from construction to food are controlled by the Chinese then obviously they control the economy.
v. Of course, no doubt about it when your PM cannot seem to stop rewarding (or buying) the Chinese.
III. Religion and the Malaysian identity
Those three factors you brought up are non-negotiable. If ANY Malaysian not just the Chinese cannot accept Islam as the religion of the federation and cannot respect the Sultans, then they are not just unpatriotic, but they deserve to have their citizenship stripped from them. No excuses.
The other points are non-issues. See, if you know the history of your country over the past centuries and not just the last 100 years, then all these would not be an issue. You would then acknowledge that your family did originate from another country and the Malays were here much, much, much earlier. So much earlier that we are the people of these soil very much like the Red Indians are the original Americans. If you can acknowledge that and respect the constitutional place of Islam, Malay language and the sultans, then we would stop calling you guests.
See, when you are part of the household you follow the rules of the house but when you are a guest, if you don’t like your hosts and their rules you can go away.
The survey participants were referring to ‘private’ school. These would be the Chinese independent high schools — about 60 of them in Malaysia.
I haven’t seen the contents of the History syllabus for the UEC (exam), so I personally wouldn’t know. But this element is the most easily verified out of all the perceptions held by the Malays about the Chinese.
Chinese private school learn only history of China.
u r a liar.
rain was being sarcastic, likely. So what is the History syllabus? I’ll take your word for it.
2 history subject 1) sejarah 2) uec history, half on msia, half on world.
re: “half on world”
The China component covers … how much (weightage)?
Is the half on M’sia a dilution of the SPM syllabus?
not much on china, form 1 20% since china is one of ancient civilisation, form 2 zero, form 3 5%. bear in mind that cis cover both uem and public exam, n sejarah is one of the subject, n thus naturally uem shall emphasize more on world history.
Form 4 and 5 leh?
Ms H. As far as I know during the British, the Chinese vernacular schools used textbooks on Chinese hygiene, history, geography etc published by the Commercial Press, Shanghai. I presume after Merdeka these schools would use textbooks on Malayan History etc. in the Chinese language. If this is so, why not study Bahasa Melayu too ? From age 7 – 16, I studied English, Classical Cantonese, Urdu, Hindi and Latin. And Bahasa Malaysia and Mandarin later.
being a Malay myself, i gotta admit all those above mention lists are true. at least for me.
i have no problem befriend with Chinese compatriot. but deep inside, as a Malay we might never can trust Chinese 100%. sad but true..hmmm
Yup. What Helen wrote i the truth.
there is a massive discrimination against non chinese in private sector. It comes with many forms. Lower salary, lower bonus, almost non existant promotion aspect for Malays, etc etc.
The Chinese politicians on the other hand are fond of saying Chinese are treated as 2nd class. The truth is that Chinese in general wants everything for themselves. Chinese laments that UMNO reigns supreme in BN. Which party in UMNO’s position would not do that? after all, more than half seats won by BN are won by UMNO.
Now compare UMNO with 88 seats and Gerakan1 seat or MCA 7 seats (out of which 6 are Malay majority). Which party will dominate? MCA?
Chinese after listening lies by DAP with tacit approval of MCA, now feel that they can outmanouvre Malays. Healthy competition is OK. But separating your community with others is simply courting disaster.
Sorry to say, Helen. the truth is that Chinese in general are viewed as racist. And i believe that too.
re: “Yup. What Helen wrote is the truth.”
All the points of the Malay mindset/perspective are taken from the Malaysiakini chart, and are derived from the National Civics Bureau survey.
Not I say one. The 200 survey participants say one.
Thanks for correction.
Short of saying it out loud, Malays do not trust the Chinese. Which explains why PAS found that its appeal among the Malays is waning. All because PAS is perceived as submitting to DAP.
In general, Malays had tried to their best of efforts to be friendly with Chinese. As malays accept reality that by 1957 when Tunku proclaimed independence, the status of the land changes from being exclusively Malays to multi racial.
Unfortunately, chinese refuses to accept that they too have to moderate their looks, demand, requests. Chinese behaves as if they are in mainland China. They insist on separate school. Yet they wonder why Malays are suspicious of them.
They simply refuse to mix with Malays but the chauvinist among them insist on the word Allah be shared.
They are upset when some prominent Malays say ‘get lost’ to them. Yet they behave exactly like “pendatang”. They accuse Malays as racist. Yet DAP is the most racist of all parties.
They question specific provision on Malays in constitution. Yet they choose to ignore the act that brings the specific provision in the first place; massive citizenship exercise that until today remains a world record. I just love to remind Chinese who “cross the line” of their status way back in 1957 prior to Malay rulers granting them citizenship. It never fails to make them quiet.
BUT MALAYS TOO SHARE THE BLAME. Until the tenure of Dr Mahathir, the racial strain was kept at bay as Dr Mahathir is a firm leader. One characteristic that I love is he is firm, decisive and could not be bothered with popularity. He sent message that those played with racial card will be taken into ISA.
But as goes the saying all good days must come to their end. The successors including the current PM are so keen to be popular. So they ignore massive insult by rude Chinese alligned to DAP. They hope by giving in to Chinese will make them accepted.
If only Dr M is still the PM, we will not have these problems.
re: “Yet they choose to ignore the act that brings the specific provision in the first place; massive citizenship exercise …”
I would tend to agree with you that one of the reasons Article 153 was put in was due to the granting of mass citizenship which overnight ‘formalized’ (keyword, b’cos the Chinese presence was ‘facts on the ground’) the changed racial make-up of the peninsula.
However the Reid Commission at the same time had also recommended that the Malay ‘special provision’ be reviewed after a period of 15 years. The Alliance govt rejected the recommendation.
Nonetheless the frames of the Constitution did not mean the provision to remain in perpetuity and taken as racial “special rights“. The FedCon wording is “special position”.
“But separating your community with others is simply courting disaster.”
There are a significant amount of Malays who refuse to mix with non Muslim and non Malay. Sometimes, they will use the excuse of religion to justify their own imposed segregation. I know some Malay friends who get flak from their parochial-minded relatives for mixing with “infidels”.
“the truth is that Chinese in general are viewed as racist.”
The irony is that this statement is actually racist.
Wise men say the truth hurt. Try asking Malays and you will find they agree with me.
Funny is it not. Chinese now is supporting PAS that for decades chided UMNO for alliance with MCA? So, who is hypocrite?
Actually I already discount Chinese support to BN. In fact I did tell some of my UMNO friends must accept reality that Chinese prefer PAS to UMNO. Not out of love. But PAS is more submissive to DAP.
after all, the government of the day is still formed without Chinese support. so no big deal actually.
DAP knows that PAS is 10x lembik than our current PM.. always beggar for money and can be manipulate… look at Mat Sabu Promoting LGE as khalifah umar.. after given as Director at PBA..
quote,”If you can acknowledge that and respect the constitutional place of Islam, Malay language and the sultans, then we would stop calling you guests.
See, when you are part of the household you follow the rules of the house but when you are a guest, if you don’t like your hosts and their rules you can go away.” unquote.
betul…! sebenarnya apa orang melayu fikir tentang orang cina dan juga orang india adalah berpunca daripada sikap dan tindak-tanduk mereka (cina dan india) itu sendiri.
malangnya, kebanyakan mereka tidak peduli tentang tanggapan orang lain dan keadaan ini diburukkan oleh politikus yang gemar menyebar propaganda, menabur fitnah dan mencetus api kebencian dan suka menyalahkan orang lain.
orang yang gagal selalunya suka mencipta alasan…. walhal mereka gagal kerana sikap mereka sendiri!
re: “malangnya, kebanyakan mereka tidak peduli tentang tanggapan orang lain dan keadaan ini diburukkan oleh politikus yang gemar menyebar propaganda, menabur fitnah dan mencetus api kebencian dan suka menyalahkan orang lain.”
Gotta be specific Alwie. Politikus yang dimaksudkan ialah orang politik evangelista DAP 3.0.
Presiden UMNO seperti Mahathir dan Timbalan Muhyidin yang menyuruh Melayu mencontohi orang Cina adalah Melayu paling bahlol yang tak sepatutnya memimpin UMNO.
Mereka ni tak sedar UMNO itu dibangunkan oleh orang Melayu untuk memajukan Tanah Melayu.
Buang Melayu bodoh mcm Muhyidin yang tak sedar diri hanya memperkayakan kristian Francis Yeoh dengan blueprint pendidikan yang tak diterima oleh NUTP.
Si bahlol ni ingat dapat pujian dari NST dan orang Kristian sudah cukup sedangakan ekor bergelumang dengan tahi.
Inilah dia Melayu Johor yang lupa diri. Sebab itu Sultan Johor terpaksa tukar cuti rehat ke hari jumaat..
I know nothing about Chinese private schools. Somehow I fear that these places teach students subversive things, just like madrasahs in Pakistan or Indonesia.
Some people accuse that BTN courses teach racist indoctrination and propaganda, maybe the chinese do the same thing in their private schools.
Why, this might not even stop at local institutions. I recall seeing a picture of overseas students holding the Malaysia’s flag upside down not long ago. I wonder what led to that.
So this is what me as a Malay sometimes think. What about you Chinese? What do you think us Malays secretly plot about behind your backs?
re: “What do you think us Malays secretly plot about behind your backs?”
“Borang habis” — This is an actual complaint that I’ve heard a few times from various non-Malays.
The Penjawat Am are predominantly Malay and in fact the civil service is becoming mono-racial. The gomen has entrepreneurial programmes, funding schemes, e.g. Tekun, some of which are open to all races.
However when Chinese and Indian applicants go to the gomen offices to get the forms, they are told by the Malay pegawai that “borang habis” or all the vacancies have been filled or that the date for applying is already closed.
Keep them coming, that can’t be the worst.
Chinese complaining they can’t be government servants sounds like Peninsula Malaysian Catholics complaining they can’t use Allah.
Hard to believe you want to become or use something you that you view as low class or insult.
Is that really so? Or mere excuse?
The suspicion is that the kakitangan kerajaan don’t want to give out the application forms to non-Malays. So the “borang habis” reply would be a mere excuse.
You’re making it sound to me like not only they don’t want to become government servants, they even make an excuse that makes it look like Malay government servants conspire racially to prevent them from joining the glorious civil service.
That actually hurts more than I thought initially.
The borang is not for joining the civil service lah. Aiyoh, do read properly.
The application form is to get/ask for funding under gomen entrepreneurial programmes. Go Google ‘Tekun’. That one as far as I’m aware is open to Indians.
Others for Malays are Ikthiar, Superb (Bumiputra New Entrepreneurs Starting Scheme), National Entrepreneurship Institute (Insken) programmes, etc, etc.
If saying “kerani pejabat” withheld the borang-borang would convey the meaning better, then I’m ready to admit my own shortcoming in language use. My choice of word ‘penjawat awam’ may not have been the best and could have confused you.
Nahh, my bad.
I agree it’s the sentence about penjawat am and the civil service which got my brain going on that direction instead of government entrepreneurial programs. Danger of preconceptions.
I went to one myself, a bumiputera program though(PUNB), it ran smoothly with a briefing, some psychology test and they even mailed with an invitation to join following programs. I think they even have an internet site too, not sure about that.
I didn’t go through because the test made me feel I’m no entrepreneur material.
While doing all that I went to that agency which deals with SMEs, don’t remember the name, I’m pretty sure I seen some things about getting more Indian entrepreneurs as well. The place is empty of visitors though, don’t know if that’s the usual case.
This is mere suspicion, from the way my husband says things and how he has helped a few people to get connected.
This “borang habis” could really mean all the borang are gone because you need to get connected with your wakil rakyat in order for you to get the borang and get into the system.
Specifically the BN-components wakil rakyat.
Unfortunately I have not personally heard of any non bumis applying for these schemes but bumi yes. Does not matter whether they support bulan ka bintang ka mars, pluto etc.
re: Borang habis” — This is an actual complaint that I’ve heard a few times from various non-Malays
Let me tell you about this borang habis things Helen. A few years ago, I got past this attitude as taking things for grandted. Some how I think I miss out a lot of things in life especially a lot of goverment services due to my late of requesting or taking a form when one or two benefit announcing by goverment to all.
Yes, I’m the one who always complaining when facing the words borang habis things. Especially if no photocopies was accepted.
I deciced to take a pro actived action by going to goverment releted agency early in the morning just to get a form. And what did I see? A lot of people gathering particular the government agency around as early as 7am. Not a Malay mind you but a lot of fair skin people and trinkle of a not so fair and dark skin people.
So now, if over a hundred who camped there this early when the announcement was just made around 5pm the previous day, do you think there was sufficient form available?
Funny things when I’m thinking back, I got my number around 8.10am and I was number 150. Tens minutes in the line and I got number 150. By 9am I saw a lots more outside the office and that when the Malaysia multicultured stated to be seen.
The one who camp early, I obseved requested more than one form. Makes you wonder, if 100 people request at least 2 form, that 200 form already, right? How much form do you think available in one office each particular time?
After seing this, I get it if the complainer was an Indian or Malay, but if the complainer was chinese, well, the word Tamak will come to mind. But after observing the same things happen a lot of times, that what my assumption is.
Quote: “Funny things when I’m thinking back, I got my number around 8.10am and I was number 150. Tens minutes in the line and I got number 150.”
Was there around 100 over people in front of you? I am asking you this to dispel the possibility insiders hogging borang for somebody else.
Yeah around 100 people infront of me. Few take 2 numbers as the staffs at that time after seeing a lot of people queing decided to attended 2 form at one times in order to serves more peoples. So you can imagine how many form that persons requested and that only a few that I’m aware off coz they were infront of me.
When I asked the answer was varient, some said that if they make a mistake they will have a extra forms to fill in but I saw different IC copies attached to the form. FYI my que started from inside the office and when the office open at 8am, I’m queing outside near the gate. At that time the line look like ular kena palu.
If I’m not mistaken, by 10.45am to 11am, the staffs need to put a signboard saying that the Borang Sudah Habis. And a lot of people who come after that grumbling on how bad the government services was. There goes the blame to government staffs again eventhough it was not their fault.
HH try to go to LHDN at the last day of form submitions and you understand what goingon or the last day when PDRM announce they will give a discount to all saman trafic :) . The line and inside the office will be jammed pack..
I am surprised Helen and other Chinese on this website refrain from accusing the Malay organization of being incompetent for not supplying enough borangs. Rather than accuse the Malays of some dastardly plot, why not just accuse them of being incompetent? I think that is far more accurate representation of what goes on at ground level.
I as a Malay can tell you of numerous instances of fumbles and foibles of the civil servant class of people, who just happen to be predominantly Malay.
I think it is politically acceptable to accuse government workers to be bad at their job. The crime problem, for example, now appears like a Malaysian issue, especially when you see Chinese police spokesman making public press statements. Ask yourself a semi racist question, why isn’t crime being reduced even though we have more Chinese involvement. Are the Chinese policemen just as incompetent as the Malay ones? I reckon it is more the system not the people who make up system that let crime remain a problem . So racism in the government is probably more illusion used by opportunist politicians, than actual reality.
I’m hoping to see more input but other than Helen no other chinese is sharing much.
Let it all out!
If you’re baiting, they’re not biting lah.
Oh come on, you have all these malays voicing out and leaving themselves open against counter arguments and all, and you can’t expect the other side to just keep whatever they think of the other side to themselves. It’s just my opinion that the regulars here are more civil than other places on the internet. Maybe I need to lurk in more spots. Or maybe not. Sometimes the loudest people on the internet are the ones more secluded and clueless.
I don’t even know about the complaint on government agencies offering programs before you mentioned it, and you already saw how I misinterpreted what you said to be some other issue, but we can clarify.
If you think I’m baiting your Chinese readers by asking, then what am I supposed to think of your article? Did I bite when I said what I think about Chinese private education?
re: “what am I supposed to think of your article?”
I’m afraid we’re captive to the limitations of my blog demography, which is a predominantly Malay readership. That’s why I did not blog this topic the other way around, i.e. “What Chinese think about Malays: True or not?”
And the reason for my blog demography being the way it is is obviously because I do not favour Pakatan — which 90 percent of the Chinese voters are backing.
re: “the regulars here are more civil than other places on the internet”
That’s perfectly true and there is a reason for this, apart from the fact that pro-establishment folks are less obnoxious and dogmatic than oppo supporters. The civility is because of how I handle the moderation, indicated by my being careful with you, since you’re a newcomer and without a handle/moniker/pseudonym.
You scare away the non-Malays with the Malay articles. Cuba tulis semua dalam Bahasa Inggeris. Mungkin lagi ramai orang Cina / India mengujung laman web ini.
re: “You scare away the non-Malays with the Malay articles.”
If more articles were in English, we might get the abusive comments rolling in. The BM language barrier has been helpful as a buffer to keep the Dapster mob from spamming.
PS. Plus you’re a new Anon some more.
Read the title. It is a direct question to the Malays.
Ms H. What are the supporters of the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP supporters bellyacheing about ? Their spiritual leader the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 11 failed Policies for Singapore in the 75% Chinese spiritual Singapore homeland extirpated the Nantah and the Chinese vernacular school system in Singapore over 40 years ago. In our beloved Malaysia we have 24% Chinese, Malaysian Chinese ! I dare say the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 11 failed Policies for Singapore has at least 1 successful Policy to his credit according to HY – the unfinished product of the absurd.
second lky successful policy, putting his key opponent in prison. third, possess excellent dna similar to that twin joker of yours. hmmm not got 3 oredi, I sure can overtake u before end of 2013, didn’t hans andersen wrote duck finally beat that hare?
HY. You talk as though you are on Mars not even the Moon. What sort of policies are the Malaysian Chinese pursuing under your leadership ? Thousands graduate every year without any hope of moving with the mainstream. Only the Malaysian Chinese are in such a quandary due to poor thinking like yours. Can’t you think better as you talk so much hiding behind foolish remarks ? What ideas have you got to put Chinese of your ilk into the mainstream of Malaysia ?
Ms H. In an Indepent country, we cannot be the one that stands out producing students suitable only for another country ! This is 2013, not 1949 !
Interesting line of thought.
Is this true? Is the analogy applicable AK47? I don’t think so.
what happen in 1949, u knelt down when others stand up?
HY. You are confused as a pole cat. Your remarks are not convincing without the true facts. Sorry boy !
Ms H. We all can see how people like HY propagate their deficiency and inferiority complex just by not recognizing the real World we live in. In order we accept ourselves we must accept other views also. It takes two to tango. In 2013, we see the likes of HY still arguing that they are 100% right. Why do’nt they ask their brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 11 failed Policies for Singapore about his extirpation of the Chinese Schools in Singapore 40 years ago ? His one and maybe only good Policy for Singapore ! Acheh !
well we just bought car Toyota veilfire V6.. sadly lot of function button is Japanese language.. does they(japanese)about globalization.. i don’t think so…
Ms H. Is’nt this a failure of Chinese, Malaysian Chinese, politics which dated from 1949 ? There was plenty of time to sort out these 2 simple issues, the Mandarin language and the vernacular schools. But nothing was done and whatever was done was on an ad hoc basis. We have dopes like HY hear barking at every turn on the wrong issues without thought. No wonder the Malaysian Chinese are in a dog house — and thousands of Mandarin speaking Chinese graduate annually with a certificate not recognised by the Government. Someone does not care ! Is it HY ? The great pretender ?
Ms H. All these fellows spouting all sorts of cliches and at the same time dressed up in fancy dress looking utterly confused. And behind it all, the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew with his 11 failed Policies for Singapore and maybe only one good Policy – extirpated the Nantah and all the vernacular Chinese schools at one stroke ! How confused can one get ?
Confucius says (and some possible responses):
Wherever you go go with all your Heart (so learn how to purify it); The man who lives an Upright Life is obeyed even before he speaks (so don’t rush your opinions before others). To know that you know and to know that you don’t know, is the real Wisdom (so it is not stupid to not know). A man who has committed a mistake but does not correct it, is making yet another mistake (so better not to cover up misdeeds with other lies). Five things constitute perfect virtue: Sincerity, Kindness, Seriousness, Benevolence, and Determination (so don’t be Deceptive, Cruel, Careless, Selfish, nor Irresolute).
If you meet Lao Tze in the clouds, do not beg from him gold: [YouTube]
I don’t know the reality of most question.
About Chinese are colonizing using economic power – The reality on the ground might gave off the vibe. In places such as Bakri, Muar, small housing project mushroom almost everywhere, and a lot of them are by Malaysian Chinese company. Closer to main road, more and more commercial area are being opened – and again by Malaysian Chinese companies.
Malays might feel that they are being squeezed out of Bakri.
So, should Malaysian Chinese be blamed? I don’t think so. It takes two to tango and the land whose originally Malay’s were being sold. Quite a number of them seems to be because of the sons and daughters of the land have move out of there and settle down somewhere else.
In the first list item, I think the word you want is “corroborated”, not “collaborated”.
Thanks. You’re right. I’ll make the correction :)
I worked for a Chinese company. I was paid higher there than in a Malay company. But when my manager left, I was overlooked for promotion. So I left. Btw, later found out the Chinese company wanted more Malays to fulfill bumi quota, and/or to improve chances of winning govt or glc projects.
Chinese do award even small jobs to other Chinese. While Malays are stupid enough to do so in a false belief in “meritocracy”. Had a cousin complain how the Chinese contractor won’t allow his Malay lawyer friend perform strata title transfer. It had to go through Chinese law firm.
Chinese have taken control of the private sector— they were always in control.
The Chinese I meet on travels all complain about not getting financial assistance from government after attaining high exam scores. Why should government invest in people who would not contribute? Its bad business.
Can’t comment on the rest.
The feeling is understandable. why financially support the ever ungrateful lot. I am not against chinese. what irritate me is that they simply refuse to integrate.
They create reasons for not wanting integration. They told me they are suspicious that the government(meaning UMNO meaning Malays) want to shut down Chinese schools. I told them off that if that is the intention, it would have been done 50 years ago.
They(in general) are the most racist. but they dare to lament how they feel that they are treated as 2nd class here. Once i asked whether by having taken over the politics and sent Malays to ‘hutan” that they will; satisfy that they are not 2nd class? They got the message.
They simply do not have the “perasaan terimakasih”. I am amused that MCA Kedah now is asking Exco position in Kedah exco line up. What is MCA contribution? None. MCA simply does not deserve the Exco post..
“The feeling is understandable. why financially support the ever ungrateful lot. I am not against chinese. what irritate me is that they simply refuse to integrate.”
Do you have gov support malay only school, colleges and universities? how much money was spent on them compare to others. Malays are the majority and have been the gov for more than 50 years, is the minority fault that today we are further apart than half a century ago? if the minority has been the gov, will it be worst or better. We do not know but saying you are not a racist but starting being irritated and blaming the minority for refusing to intergrate sounds oxy moron.
Read my comment. I do not blame Chinese for Malay predicaments.
But the truth is that Chinese as a community does not integrate with others.
am chinese. small manager in a small chinese developer company. let me share my experience.
For contracts usually award to chinese. contractors who tender for our contracts are 95% chinese. this is open tender. For s&p and strata titles 50% bumi and 50% non bumi. Reason is the bumi lawyer is a good friend of the boss so a lot of business tends to go his way. Employment wise, all senior manager positions are chinese. Most supervisors, c.o.w and project assistants are malay. Clerical level majority malay. Sales ppl majority chinese.
My 2 sen is that those who play together tend to do business together. Correct me if I am wrong
thanks for your reply. again may I emphasize that Malays are not against Chinese. What we criticize is DAP that is fond inciting the chinese to think UMNO(meaning malays) are racist.
The truth is UMNO does not play racial issue. As I repeatedly mentioned, if that has the intention, UMNO would have done that 50 years ago. Do tell me which party that can match UMNO’s supreme position.
But the perception of malays about chinese is real. And sorry to say, I too believe that. No offense, But that is reality.
No doubt Malays too have weaknesses. But I believe Chinese in general gives tacit approval to DAP although they realise how dangerous DAP racial manipulation. The reason is that they believe UMNO would have “bungkus” this time around.
My point is that Chinese are putting themselves on front line in collision with Malays. DAP is just manipulating chinese for Lim dynasty.
You may ask how Chinese put themselves on front line? By provoking the Malays, insulting islam among others. By alligning to DAP that create fear among the Chinese that Malays(UMNO) treats them like 2nd class.
Make no mistake. DAP is bringing chinese to clash with Malays.
Actually I do agree with you on DAP part. they are using “race” as a factor. although they do hide it quite well. The thing I cannot stand about them (and to a certain extent PAS and PKR) is the holier than thou (ironic isn;t it?) and self righteousness of their actions.
However I disagree with you on UMNO not playing the racial card. However I feel that they are playing the card more in defense than as a offensive tool (macam main bola asyik defend je) therefore the act comes of as very weak (thats why “everyone” says racial).
I feel sad that it has come to this where me and you are discussing issues such as this where we have very little power to change anything.
UMNO is a Malay based party. It reigns supreme in political scene due to its ability to garner the lion share of Malay votes.
No doubt it has its share of weaknesses. But at least it is not racist. if it is racist and cruel, it has ample time to show off its “brutality’.
What DAP is doing is bringing Chinese to clash with the Malays FOR THE BENEFIT OF LIM DYNASTY. And the clash will be bloody , just like May 13.
“… we have very little power…”
Says who? The destiny depends on our action. For a start, do you(meaning Chinese community) have to sacrifice your legitimate interests by supporting a party (DAP) that is waging war against the Malays.
Likewise, do the malays have to subject themselves to self appointed moral guardian(PAS) without any chance of questioning them.
What is required is level headed attitude. Not paranoia. The habit of hating to the extreme or “worshipping’ human must stop. I may lean towards UMNO but I do criticize them too.
Guan Eng behaves as if he is the Son of Heaven, beyond criticism.. He removed all state DAP leaders who he deemed intransigent. His forte is claiming UMNO(meaning Malays) as racist. Soon the patience may snap. And it will be bloody.
Some chinese media are full with news that portray UMNO as cruel as ‘menindas”.
I mean no disrespect. But as a community, you are way out of line.
There is a flip side to the Malay selambe aje attitude. If the Malays did not possess their laidback nature but instead are exactly like the Chinese, imagine how many May 13s we would have had already.
It is precisely b’cos of the PPTA (Parti Paling Tidak Apa) outlook that PIS (Provocation, Insult, Slander) are allowed to slide without any action taken or retribution exacted. Just look at the insults (and vile accusations) that have been heaped on Rosmah Mansor without a single one of her tormenters ever being thrown in jail.
Precisely. UMNO also must share blame on this. Datin Rosmah was insulted simply for attending Lim Chong Wei’s wedding reception. As she is the wife of the head of government, it is not surprising she was accorded respect to sit on main table. And that also became a subject of ridicule.
But Najib is so “cool” In fact to the point of no “perasaan”. Your wife was insulted just because they want to get at you. yet Najib did not do anything. Precisely this kind of could not be bothered attitude that brings chaos to a country.
Be firm. Show them that you mean business.Show that you are not afraid to teach those who are out of line.
As for Bangladeshi voting, Najib’s administration did not act beyond denying it. Is that all a sovereign head of governmnent do? Cant Najib hauled those who said that and charged them.
We certainly need major reshuffle at AG office.
What utter rubbish. Look at motive. Who needs to remain in power? Who did the math and figured they need complete support from one race? Who is creating the perception of a threat on the majority in this country? Who uses scum like helen to further their needs?
“But when my manager left, I was overlooked for promotion.”
Question, are you a manager material? One always think oneself as better and smarter than others and deserve more, i do not blame you on that. Doing one job and plus managering others is different. Have you seen any chinese working in a malay company besides GLCs or major banks.
i have worked in GLCs and faced the same problem as you working for a chinese company. malays with less experience are promoted, sent overseas for courses and training. HR office are all malays. i left and work for international country and is doing very well.
Chinese company is all about making profits, meeting absurd gov rules, it is the gov rules and regulations like number of bumi workers or 30% or 51% malays ownership.
“Chinese have taken control of the private sector— they were always in control.”
after 50 years of assistance by malay gov you should have said what is wrong? the gov or malays themselves, why can’t you compete with them inspite of all the privileges? Is Mahathir right that malay DNA is inferior or they are lazy or afraid of challenges or the Chines are just too smart eg LKY and Singapore?
Do you know there is a big gap between rich malay and poor malay so is in the chinese but the different is more middle class chinese.
Senior positions in the civil servants, universities etc 99% are malays. Is that healthy or is that justifiable? We have 1.4 million civil servants with about only 1 million tax payers, the largest wrt population about 5%. Singapore and Australia has about 1% and services is aleast 2x better. what is wrong?
“Why should government invest in people who would not contribute? Its bad business.”
Who are paying the most tax.. chinese control the private sector as you said… Mahathir said 90% of tax payer are chinese!!!
Just to let you hear from the other side of the coin. i grew up in a small town with malay friends and not a racist.
IRB does not maintain records of taxpayers based on race, statistics of tax collection from individuals (including Indians and other races) is about 18% of the total tax collected of which 35% is from the self-employed group. I hope this fact dispels the perception that there is a racial bias in the tax system.. source *http://www.thestar.com.my/story.aspx?file=%2f2010%2f2%2f20%2fbusiness%2f5703731&sec=business
than which mahathir said that.. there is plenty of mahathir in malaysia… get your source right..
Listen to yourself. We are talking about M. Mahathir is not the average Joe on the street, the know-it-all mamak stall critic or the anonymous commenter trolling the net.
Tun was the PM for 22 years and till today still exert certain influence on our political scene. It is preposterous to conclude this man does not have this kind of tax breakdown info at his disposal before he spew it out. ( that the bulk of the tax income comes from one single race group)
The Chinese always continue to peddle the canard that they pay the most tax. Yet I have never seen any evidence of that.
How do you categorize the racial aspect of corporate taxes? Do corporations have a “race”? Are all GLC and Petronas “Malay”, while companies like Genting, YTL and Public Bank are “Chinese”?
I think nearly all Malaysians, regardless of race, generalize companies being either Chinese or Malay or other… Air Asia and Maxis being somewhat “Indian” because their founder and the propensity of their hiring managers to hire from that group.
Typical Chinese response–
– i have Malay friends, so I am not racist
– Corporations pay most tax, most number of corporations are Chinese controlled. Hence Chinese pay most tax. Such facile thinking using fallacious syllogisms is typical of Chinese thinking. They fail to consider that the largest “Malay” corporation Petronas can gobble up dozens of “Chinese” corporations.
– Big gap between rich and poor Malay. Why not compare “rich” Malay and “rich” Chinese, “poor” Malay and “poor” Chinese. NEP is to address gaps between races not within races.
– 50 years not enough of NEP. The Chinese who came to Malaysia were traders, businessmen, professionals, academicians much longer. Some up to 100+ years.they passed their wealth and knowledge down generations. That’s how a DAP politician can own 8 properties while a PAS poli owes none.
– When Mahathir says something that supports your bias, you agree with him. But when he is against your opinions, you consider him the devil.
– Chinese company all about making profits. All companies are about making profits. It is just so much more common for Chinese companies to hire their own, regardless of cost. They would rather pay more to a Chinese they like than an ang moh who can do the job better at a competitive price. Their guanxi network ensures their people win first.
re: “NEP is to address gaps between races not within races.”
You’re correct. It was, at its inception in 1971.
But whatever the economic policies of the government today, they MUST address the intra-race disparity. It is dangerous to continuously benchmark the Malay catch-up against the achievement (attainment) of the Chinese as was done in the NEP early years.
Otherwise, the Chinese will continue to be made the national bogeyman. And if the Chinese are still the automatic first target when it comes to scapegoating, then it becomes perilous for ‘our’(Chinese) safety!
The gaps among the Malay community is largely due to culture and religion. Unfortunately, many Malays have adopted a retrogressive culture and retrogressive religion. This is entirely their doing and is probably not due to the basic tenets of their culture or religion.
Malay culture is not dissimilar to the filipino and thai cultures. They have a laid back attitude. Each of these cultures has its own saying to define their laid back nature.
In that list you may notice that Japan and France have such laid back sayings, and guess what, these two countries also are stragglers in the among the industrialised countries.
I think the Islamic religion also enables the bad and lazy behavior of some Malays. Prayer takes 5-10 minutes, but most Malays know how to stretch it to 30+ minutes. Friday prayer is basically ‘half-day’ of work for most Malays. Puasa time is another excuse to kick back , leave early and shirk work duties.
one Malay. If anything is applicable to Malay business, I should know. After the NEP in 1971, I developed the concept of the acquisition of SIME DARBY PLC. At that point, Malay business etc was just 1% of the whole economy. OK. SIME DARBY was not repatriated or completely Malaysianised until 1982. Because of the unfortunate early demise of Tun Abdul Razak, the NEP only took off during Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s Administration which began in 1981 – 10 years later. Before 1971, there were no Malay Middle Class. It was just the Malays in the Civil Service and the rest with hardly any Malay in the major towns. It was during Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s Administratiion that the MALAY MIDDLE INCOME GROUP WAS DEVELOPED WHICH BROUGHT UP THE CHINESE MIDDLE INCOME GROUP ALSO THROUGH THEIR PURCHASING POWER ! And as long as the Chinese realise that the Malays are different from the Chinese and the Chinese are different from the Indians and all, we shall have peace, stability and prosperity forever.
Ms H. All the comments on everything were not recorded by the MCA in terms of statistics as from 1970. How do we know whether all these complaints and allegations are truthful ? This is why I always said that the MCA leadership is weak and self-serving. They have no basis to work on. How to negotiate for anything plus the fact that 90% of the Chinese are up a pole ? Of course, their political leadership is responsible whoever they maybe.
re: “Yet they choose to ignore the act that brings the specific provision in the first place; massive citizenship exercise”
A number of the items on the list can be investigated for yielding present-day data.
Perceptions can be enhanced or eroded, e.g. PM Najib’s “Chinese tsunami” has been statistically proven.
The anti-Chinese sentiments are very bad (my perception). If Gerakan is worried, then they should get their people to work on allaying the negativity.
However, the Chinese BN parties have done the exact opposite. The MCA, for example, has allowed the media that it owns to fan hatred against the Malay-dominated government, which in turn has invited backlash such as the Boycott Chinese Products campaign.
K.O.M.A. Kick Out MCA Already, for the BN’s own survival before the coalition is stabbed to death in the back.
What next. UMNO until today adopts the attitude ‘not wanting to see how MCA behaves”. Exactly like DAP.
For quite some time, the UMNO’s attitude resulted in Malays still voting for MCA, Gerakan. But not anymore. Places like Kuantan, alor setar, Bandar Tun Razak are won by PR as UMNO fielded non Malays in Malay majority areas. actually Malays no longer wants non Malays especially from ungrateful parties like MCA to represent them.
What i notice is that chinese DO KNOW DAP IS PLAYING RACIAL CARD. But they tag along as they feel that this is the time to being down Malays( meaning UMNO). unfortunately, that did not happen.
What these people(chinese) are actually saying that they already “berkerat rotan” with UMNO. Unfortunately all things come in a package. Chinese also unwitingly shows the Malays that the government of the day still can be formed WITHOUT CHINESE SUPPORT.
re: “berkerat rotan”
Yup. Dr M’s Gelang Patah ultimatum foresaw the possibility. So after berpatah arang, diconteng-conteng pula laungan “EBU! EBU!” pada dindang.
Ms H. There should be no anti-Chinese sentiments when the Chinese, Malaysian Chinese, is strong and patriotic !
Unfortunately, the anti-Chinese sentiments are indeed rising all across the board. Gerakan is worried, and that’s why they presented the NCB survey findings to ask the gomen to start taking some serious action.
MCA should be worried also but yet they appear not to be. They are still allowing The J-Star to promote the DAP evangelistas whose incitement is setting the Chinese to collide with the Malays.
Ms H. If you kindly examine the top leadership of the MCA from the beginning to 2013, you will find the leadership was/is not of the very best calibre.
Ms H. A lot of the ill-feeling between communities today is due to weak political leaderships. No more. No less. There should only be minimal negativity. The Swiss, Germans, French, Italians and Romansch had their Swiss Confederation for 800 years. They still quarrel and make snide remarks about each other behind their backs. Their solution was to have a Referendam on every little issue – to be fair, save time and money.
Ms H. ‘The anti-Chinese sentiments are very bad (my perception)’.
I am of the opinion that this is the creation of the Chinese, Malaysian Chinese, political leadership by permitting matters to deteriorate a long long time ago. There were/are to bake a cake. But unfortunately, these fellows took the easy way out because the word ‘SACRIFICE’ is not in their vocabulary, not even in the Singapore Trojan Horse DAP’s vocabulary.
There are 2 interests, National interest and Self/Personal Interest. In politics, interests change all the time. A good question. ‘Why the DAP spent 47 long years in the Oppostion ?’.
For 47 long years their slogan was ‘Malaysia for Malaysians’ and before the 2013, this slogan became ‘Malaysia for Malaysians with a Malay bias.’ A few days ago, the leadership reasoned out why both are OK.. BUT NOW IN SINGAPORE, THE SINGAPORE OPPOSITION SAYS ‘ SINGAPORE FOR SINGAPOREANS ‘. How DAP ?
Ms H. Specially for the Mandarin speaking HY. Here is a list of the wealth of the MCA leaders which is not in chronological order :-
1. This YB was seen in the lst Class SIA Cabin carrying a brief case emblazoned, ‘YB XYZ, Selangor State Exco Councillor.’ He was grinning from ear to ear because his brief case was the type we see being thrown around by the men in black in HKTVB movies ! The wording was to impress the Royal Customs to give him a send off to S’pore.
2. This leader told others,’ You mind your own business and I will mind mine !’
3. This leader had the best picks of lands which were mismanaged by his family. But he picked up a monopoly.
4. So much money fell out of the pockets of this runner to London, he could now afford to tool around in Lamborghinis and not Ferraris, and play high-stakes poker every nite.
5. This leader already had 2 monopolies before becoming Boss. And he picked up another while he expanded his empire.
6. This leader shouted ‘We fight them for calling us names’. But he could not be found when an up-market sought his support as his residence was in the same area.
7. This leader walloped 2 monopolies whilst in office.
8. This leader shouted that 2 foreign countries owed him One had already delivered but he was waiting for the other to deliver. I would have thought his loyalty was to the Yang Di Pertuan Agong
What has HY got to do with the MCA?
Ms H. These 2 parties speak MANDARIN !
HY is not the MCA’s keeper.
Ms H. Neither are we the MCA’s keeper. But since HY is so vocal spouting his vernacular Mandarin, he should be put into proper perspective about the real facts of life – Malaysian Chinese political life.
We have quite a few pejuang bahasa who champion the Malay language but they need not necessarily be connected to Umno.
Ms H. There are lots of Malaysians who want to say their piece when political leaderships are found wanting. Once the goodies flow down the slippery slope of the power pyramid again, a large portion of these unhappy folks will disappear. But until then, if ever, we can only hope for the best. This is why a Good Government has to look after all the citizens.
The Dapsters are fey and the evangelistas are fanatics. It is impossible for common sense (striving for our common good) to prevail with them.
Ms H. I agree that some champion the Malay language. They have a case. So do the others. I am of the view that all problems are human made and it is up to Humankind to resolve these issues. India has something like over 300 dialects and yet the English language was not suppressed since 1947 but grew stronger. So much so, 350 Millions Indians who speak English form the bulwark of the leading edge of modern India. I believe Hindi and also Urdu together with English are the main languages of India.
Ms H. I consider the neo/new Christians are fly-by-nite types who are not sustainable like the 555 shirted gangsters of the 1960s. Let these folks do their bongo bongo voodoo choral dancing thing for the next 10 years in this tropical clime, and we can re-assess again. Even Communism gave up the Ghost.
Ms H. To put all into perspective about the Chinese, Malaysian Chinese political leadership, the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP did nothing for 47 long years for the Malays, the Chinese, the Indians and all either. And recently, the leadership told its supporters to wait another 5 years. No joke !
So, you and me see how silly it is for all us Malaysians, the Malays, the Chinese, the Indians and all to insult, to quarrel, etc at each other here. We should not be doing so when we know the facts.
The Chinese, the Malaysian Chinese have been let down by their weak political leadership on both sides of the divide !
9. This leader was caught having sticky fingers with shares.
10. This leader was caught padding a contract.
11. This leader had the best lands of London and Kuala Lumpur.
12. This leader could remit S$100 Millions from Singapore to Hong Kong just after 6 years in politics.
13. This leader had a spare parts monopoly
14. This leader had a chemical monopoly
15. This leader made RM20 Millions by just sitting in his air-conditioned office.
16 This leader grabbed a mine by just changing sides.
Addendum to 7.
This leader walloped 2 monopolies whilst in office and had 4 choice lands, a lush contract and a high-end density development.
The above is the other side of the MCA coin. On the Mandarin language and the vernacular schools side, nothing was done. What say you HY ? Talk, talk, talk !
Now they are doing this, in helenang blog… the results, just shown here. The merrier evangelitas ( you know whom), mca’elitas’ , gerakan’elitas’, will be celeberating christmas and happy new year carnival in ‘elitas’ styles this year…
I agreed with you AK 47. Before there (they) were none.
maae. All these happenings come about because the age old power structure of the power pyramid to govern our beloved Malaysia was forgotten since 2003. Chaps were too busy doing something else.
The key is that the glue/lubricant/goodies must flow down the slippoery slope of the pyramid to us the proletariat/Rakyat at the bottom. Once, we friendly Malaysians see that the goodies defy gravity and flow to the apex, we blow our tops.
This is a small country, maae either we are good friends or related to each other. We cannot run very far even if we happen to have the Billions !
almarhum tunku abdul rahman pernah berkata ‘melayu pegang kuasa politik & cina pegang kuasa ekonomi’. dia tak sentuh india, why? i do not know.
dulu masa perikatan (umno, mca & mic) memang ada isu tapi tak seteruk sekarang kerana dap telah dapat quite a bit of political power sedangkan kuasa ekonomi masih solid ditangan cina. ada dak mana2 pihak (mungkin jabatan buruh, kwsp, jpa) mempunyai fakta tentang peratusan penjawat awam cina dan melayu yg bekerja di private sector terutamanya syarikat2 cina? yg mana lebih tinggi berdasarkan country’s racial ratio. cheers!
re: “kuasa ekonomi masih solid ditangan cina”
GLCs and banks in Malay hands wor. Petronas also.
intentionally dropped those two for they belong to the state & public. tengok pdc, tangan boleh tertukar leh. petronas is private owned mah!
Even though the Penang state govt changed hands, the PDC line-up remains Malay controlled.
PDC organization chart
General manager: Blank
Deputy general manager (I): Iskandar Basha Abdul Kadir
Deputy general manager (II): Hartini Ali
Deputy general manager: Abdul Rahim Isahak
Land & Physical Planning: Mohd Bazid Abdul Kahar
Lagal: Zainun Abdul Rahman
Technical: Yeoh Lian Huat
ICT: Leong Choon Cheong
Finance: Suzana Hassan
Corporate Comm: Shahril Nizam Cheah
Special Projects: Jamil Ibrahim
Entrepereneur Devp: Che Puteh Daud Halim
Industrial: V. Murali
Internal Audit: M. Saygaran
Properties Management: Lim Beng See
Business Devp: Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz
Admin Services: Jamil Ibrahim
See, PDC is Malay dominated. The PDC board comprises more members too (7 Malays, 4 Chinese, 1 Indian), Ref., http://www.pdc.gov.my/index.php/English/2013-02-20-00-51-46/board-members
See again, with a change of government, still nothing changes for the ‘betterment’ of the Chinese rakyat marhaen — contrary to the Dapsters’ blind belief that DAP rule will usher in an era prosperity for them. Guan Eng and his evangelista coterie will only prosper the developers and Chinese tycoons.
Methinks LGE is smart enough not to usik for fear that the Pg Malay civil servants will help bring down his gomen like what happened in Perak (2009) and in Selangor to Khir Toyo.
I think numbers alone do not tell the whole story. DAP is lower in numbers but they seem to be the loudest and most influential in today’s Pakatan.
What you say about the noisy Dapsters and even noisier evangelista troublemakers is true insofar as it pertains to the nuisance level in cyberspace.
But looking at the job designations of all the top execs in PDC, it looks like the office holders are doing serious professional jobs. So I don’t think that the ‘Shout’ factor, i.e. drowning out of the majority opinions and wishes by the sheer ferocity of the minority Chinese voice, is something that comes into play in the PDC.
Shouting is what politicians (not professionals) do. Just look at their MPs’ behaviour in the Dewan. It reflects on Khairy that he won the Shout Award … an acknowledgment of his “making the most noise” high standing.
those are soldiers …hehe
Board members show 5 out of 12 are non-Malays; they are Chinese in fact. You think that people on the org chart have more power than the Board, which is headed by you-know-who, mafiaso? He alone probably has voting rights equal to 2 ordinary board members or maybe even veto power.
It’s hard to say without looking deeply into their articles of association and charter etc.
One Malay is right to point out that numbers can’t give you the best impression of the power structure, in spite of my tendency to agree with Helen that those with numbers do have the balance of power in their favour.
re: “Board members show 5 out of 12 are non-Malays”
4 Chinese, one Indian = 5
re: “mafiaso? He alone probably has voting rights equal to 2 ordinary board members or maybe even veto power”
He’s everywhere in Penang chairing all the boards. He’s concentrating power in his hands (his sister is the DAP Penang asst treasurer (or maybe she’s been further promoted). You’re correct to use the mafia term on The Family.
That’s also why he could threaten the reporters, “You print, your print lah and <strong>YOU SEE WHAT I DO TO YOU“.
Many chinese are just waiting for Petronas to become a public listed company. They already have someone on the inside…
Mohd Omar Mustapha
This guy has been targeted by bloggers. He is another KJ in another form. Why does Najib allow such people to rise?
Omar’s dad comments in my blog :)
And in any case, I’m not one of the bloggers targetting him.
Dulu orang melayu walaupun ada PAS dan UMNO tak berpecah begini. Masa dulu dulu yang sokong PAS akhlaknya terpuji. Yang sokong UMNO pun jenis ingat dosa pahala.
Dulu tak ada DAP. Kini DAP dah tanamkan pada pemikiran orang cina bahawa menentang DAP bermakna “menyembah Melayu(UMNO)”.
ya ya, tak sokong umno, melayu mampus.
“Chinese do not support ethnic unity”.
Now go and eat in the changing room. The canteen has been closed for, ahem… renovation. I also wish the government will do a clean up of temples and shrines around the country. Ban the Al-Kitab. Batu Caves makes me uneasy.
Don’t you just love the double standards?
While at it, let’s not forget the mandatory yoke of gratitude every non-Malay is expected to carry for the rest of their life. The yoke comes free with every IC issued. Indonesians exempted.
Must remember these are the sins of your forefathers. I know that I am paying the price of the lack of wealth accumulation in my family. I have not inherited anything.
Maybe we should make it illegal for people to pass on wealth or their estate to their progeny. And every child should be forced to attend the same kind of school with the same syllabus, regardless of wealth. Then we can have a better level playing field.
Starting with the abolishment of race-based crutch policies?
Have you thought about the likely consequence? The Chinese and the non-Malays in positions of economic power would probably ensure that Malays suffer the full effects of economic backlash after years of perceived oppression.
If you think the rise in property assessment rates is an oppressive act, the Chinese certainly have greater capability to cause even deeper economic distress. Anything Malay, be it employees or Malay goods and services, would be totally removed from participation in the private economy. GLCs and the govt could never pick up the slack.
At that point, the Malays will only resort to one thing — violence.
I was not being specific wrt what I said about ‘abolishment of race based crutches’. My fault. My contention is race-based crutches be replaced with need-based crutches because poverty knows no race. You talked about levelling the playing field between races, I therefore throw it out to you why not start with an even distribution of aid to the needy of all races? (as opposed to your drastic tongue in cheek suggestion of not allowing people to pass their wealth to their progeny to even the playing field)
Quote: : “Must remember these are the sins of your forefathers. I know that I am paying the price of the lack of wealth accumulation in my family. I have not inherited anything.:”
While I don’t disagree with your premise about one’s actions and decisions inadvertently affect others,(ala Mitch ALbom style) I cannot in good conscience agree it is therefore justifiable to blame others for all the ills we suffer while we shake our head in defeat, absolve oneself of responsibility and lie back come-what-may wallowing in self pity,…….
I can’t tell whether you write the above based on misinformed naiveté or willful delusion. I am prone to think the latter. I have considered carefully the idea of need based affirmative action, and I think it is ineffective.
Academics with greater skin in this issue have given support to continuing policies based on race because it is much easier to enact and verify than need based policies, especially in the Malaysian context.
Consider your need based ideas. How do you assess if a person is poor enough to get financial aid? An individual may be unemployed, but he or she may be hiding wealth in other forms. Do we need to audit everyone before we dish out aid? It would be a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare.
The Chinese continue to harp that the policies benefit the politically connected Malays. Though it is true they have benefited, you have to acknowledge other Malays who are not politically connected have seen substantial gains, too.
My proposal to prevent passing on off wealth to future generations is not a “tongue in cheek” suggestion. I am not referring to a father passing his old Longines watch to his son. I refer to the passing of big ticket items that can be converted into significant cash. This includes land, jewelry, stocks etc. Some if not most people use such inheritances to further their positions in life. The Chinese, being ahead economically since time of independence, continue to pass their wealth down generations. This is the familial “crutch” your people give to each other. Is that fair? The Chinese have been giving each other affirmative action for generations. Is it wrong for Malays to do it?
You proclaim your proposal to prevent passing on generational wealth is not to be taken facetiously.
I’ll play along with you. How do you propose to go about your wealth sharing plan? I assume this is not going to be a one generational thing eh?
Edit to add
To be honest, your views on the importance of generational wealth is nothing revolutionary. It has already been said in the book Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. I heard it is a brilliant read but I’ve yet have the time…
I like to think of myself as a capitalist. I do not agree in punishing others for being successful.
I never think iof eliminating or curtailing generational wealth as revolutionary and I never claim that it is my great idea. There are already systems in place like that in the West where people with immense wealth are regulated from giving their entire wealth to their family members. Some of that money shall return to public coffers.
I wrote to the ever mocking Conrad that this would be difficult and I acknowledge that you need strong enforcement and regulatory oversight to ensure that weealth is not transferred from father to son. This is not about punishing the father or son. This is about not giving children money which they didn’t earn.
Your ideas of capitalism is totally like the US Republican idea of capitalism. The Republicunts think that the inheritance tax punishes them. Such ppl, like you, complain if a poor group of people based on race gets a hand-out, but when someone you care about gets a handout, say your son or daughter, you think it is perfectly legitimate. What entitles a son or daughter of a rich man to get an inheritance, except for their luck of being born as the rich man’s progeny? It is usually at this point where the rich will pull out religion and claim inheritance is form of divine right. God gave the child the “luck” to be born in a rich family, and God ultimately favors one group over another, like royalty over the commoners. It is no wonder why some wealthy And powerful Chinese find Christianity so appealing. It is a religion that favors wealth passed through generations, because it is legitimized in the eyes of “God”.
Firstly I need to get a little thing in order, you do realize by my own admission of being a capitalist should not come with a moral judgment attached. From my standpoint a capitalist meant I take responsibility for my finances in maximizing my own capital. I gain, but at the same time I take my share of risks and loss. I burden nobody and am not one to take from society. (I hope) I only give to charity I find close to heart because, heck, that’s my prerogative.
Quote: “Such ppl, like you, complain if a poor group of people based on race gets a hand-out, but when someone you care about gets a handout, say your son or daughter, you think it is perfectly legitimate.What entitles a son or daughter of a rich man to get an inheritance, except for their luck of being born as the rich man’s progeny?”
I don’t know what the argument is all about. If my son or daughter gets a handout from me, of course it’s legitimate. My earnings, my money, my will. When there is a governmental initiative to help the needy, that naturally begs the question what has race got to do with it? It is not wrong to ask. In fact, it is a perfectly logical question that deserves an answer.
Throwing it back to you, you question how on earth my children deserves to be rewarded based on nothing but the fact they share my DNA. By your logic wouldn’t that beg the same question why a group of people deserve government handouts based on nothing but the fact they are from a certain race group or poverty level? And what have they done to deserve the windfall? Why should we reward others for being lazy? That’s cold, I know. Just citing the illogical argument you are bringing to the table on the issue of ‘worthiness to receive.’ Who decides? Why you?
Quote: “It is usually at this point where the rich will pull out religion and claim inheritance is form of divine right. God gave the child the “luck” to be born in a rich family, and God ultimately favors one group over another, like royalty over the commoners”
Nay, it has nothing to do with luck or god. It is a natural order in which we ensure the survival of our offspring who share our DNA. We are not immortals, therefore our children is the incarnation of our coveted mortality and testament to our once existence long after we are gone. OK, OK, pushing aside all this fartsy logic, it could boil down to nothing but the very fact we wish to pass on our wealth to our children in hope they will continue to flourish and in return take good care of us when we are old and weak and not just pack us away to some obscure home.
With regards to implementing inheritance tax here in Malaysia, I am neutral. But the rich whom can afford to buy the best brains around could probably get around this via say, trust? In the end, it’s the middle class that would be caught in a limbo.
“I burden nobody and am not one to take from society”… This is exactly the capitalism practised by Republicans. They think everything they make or give as service is coming from thin air.
No. You don’t live in a bubble. Goods need raw materials, which come from the earth that we all share. Knowledge may be derived from your own mind, but the ability to share it requires a medium, be it the internet, radio , newspaper or other means. These media have finite access to people, meaning not everyone can access it fairly. Even the democratizing effects of the internet is not truly fair because bandwidth can never be shared fairly. And the fact the internet is primarily in English already means that most people won’t get the information that matters to them. And of course the methods of gaining the knowledge is never fair.
I still can’t fathom how limited your mental faculties are. They rival those of Conrad in terms of inanity and plain narrow-mindedness. The concept of imposing inheritance tax is to prevent the next generation of wealthy families from getting a leg up. This isn’t rocket science.
The reason why Malay affirmative action exists is because Chinese familial affirmative action has existed for many generations. How many times and how many ways must I repeat this? Belajar la sikit. Benda senang pun tak paham ke?
Your people hate taxes of any form. You think you deserve everything you make. I say you don’t.
I hope the government increases taxes on the top percentile of earners and impose a debilitating inheritance tax on the rich. We all know who will be affected. The assessment tax revision is just the start! It’s payback time!
Feeling better? Must have been quite a relieve to be back in your natural state. I can only imagine the intolerable hardship having to constantly restrain yourself in civility.
Quote: “This is exactly the capitalism practised by Republicans. They think everything they make or give as service is coming from thin air…. No. You don’t live in a bubble. Goods need raw materials, which come from the earth that we all share?”
Uh, I don’t know how the Republican party got dragged into this as if they dun have enough problems back home. I say I don’t take from society meant I never make it a habit to pursue free rides in life. Of course one cannot be isolated from the world, but that does not mean I cannot make a principled stand.
Quote: “I still can’t fathom how limited your mental faculties are. They rival those of Conrad in terms of inanity and plain narrow-mindedness.”
If you truly wish to engage someone, like say Conrad, it might help if you actually attempt to answer what is thrown at you. Your constant tantrum outbursts and slurs are not helping. It is making you look evasive. I of course stand corrected if that is your very intention.
Quote: “The concept of imposing inheritance tax is to prevent the next generation of wealthy families from getting a leg up. This isn’t rocket science.”
Uh my misunderstood genius, it has been much said inheritance tax does not level the playing field. I quote from Forbes’article: “….Demographic factors, such as the number of income earners per household, being married, and working full time versus part time or not working, and a college education are the major contributors to the distribution of income. Only about 2% of income inequality can be attributed to inherited wealth.”
Quote: “I hope the government increases taxes on the top percentile of earners and impose a debilitating inheritance tax on the rich. We all know who will be affected. The assessment tax revision is just the start! It’s payback time!”
Hallelujah. I too hope I can make it to the top earners’ list. (it’s way off) I rather be in the position to be taxed than not. No point losing sight of the forest for the trees.
In order to argue against inheritance tax you quote Forbes magazine, a strong pro-capitalist, anti redistributive, anti socialist magazine! This is akin to arguing for capital gains taxes by quoting Robert Reich. Choose non-partisan sources la!
Again, it is so easy to discredit guys like you and Conrad. I don’t need to insult people like you because you are adept at doing that yourself. Hook line and sinker.
While I’m not to happy with the idea of making it illegal for people to dispense of their estate as they wish – the libertarian in me, I guess – even such endeavours as Inheritance Tax (which this country does not have) does not address the problems you highlight.
You give no evidence to support your argument.
In my argument, I acknowledge that children born in good and economically privileged families tend to lead privileged lives. This is not just a correlation, this is causation. The parents in such families give knowledge to and share skills with their children. Ultimately they bequeath assets in the form of equity, real estate and other family possessions to their children, who then use those assets to further their positions ahead of their peers who inherited nothing.
Malays are sorely behind in the universally accepted practice of enriching one’s family and the future generations of that family. They have a feudal mentality, and by virtue of their religious beliefs, they think the only true wealth lies in the after life.
The Chinese who deny that they gained advantage or privilege by having been born in economically progressive families do themselves a disfavor because they appear disingenuous to Malays who want to have a dialogue about economic fairness.
At the end of the day, Malays like me who have attained economic stability, if not relative success, would rather see continuation of affirmative action than let insincere non-Malays be heard. I want them to feel economic hardship. Unfortunately, most of the new generation of Chinese don’t understand true hardship. See alvivi.
I was not making an argument merely pointing out that your contention of levelling the playing field by making it illegal for people to dispense with their estate how they wish is fairly nonsensical.
Does your contention of privilege extend to royalty ? Does your contention of privilege extend to the accumulated wealth of the ruling Malay elite ? Does your contention of privilege extend to the middle class ? This last bit is extremely important of course because of the middle class Malay sub section which was the natural consequence of post 69′ social and economic programs.
Is there a “universally accepted practice of enriching one’s family and the future generations of that family” ? What does this even mean ? You claim that Malays have a feudal mentality but yet do not acknowledge that the Malay elite is what causes the reality of a certain sub section of the Malay polity lagging behind.
Furthermore you claim that Malay religious beliefs contribute to this problem but yet fail to acknowledge that it is this belief together with the connivance of a Malay ruling class, that is the cause of the economic problems of a certain subsection of the Malay community.
Why blame the Chinese who apparently don’t suffer from the disadvantage of the feudal mentality or religious imperatives, when the dialogue should be within the Malay community and those forces that you claim make the “Malays” – or as I put it, a certain section of the community – economically disadvantaged.
So in other words you who have economic stability and presumably want to pass this onto your children [but the Non Malays cannot distribute their estates to their progeny], want to continue with policies that have had no bearing on the economic well being of the Chinese community, but apparently are still needed after all these years for the Malay community which you claim suffers from a feudal mentality and constrained by religion.
You do realize that making the argument that the Chinese don’t know what economic hardship is, is ludicrous, when there are no affirmative actions policies or special privileges for them ?
Is it usually your style to pooh-pooh other people’s ideas by declaring it “nonsensical”? You must be a real pleasure to work with, and I state that with the sincerest sarcasm.
Royal privilege and elite privilege should not pass on automatically from one generation to the next, regardless of race– You bring in race because your mind is already attuned to that concept, despite your kind always claiming to see “beyond race”– The next generation should have to start from the same level. And I don’t consider this as communism. This is just taking the Chinese desire for “meritocracy” to the rightful next step. And everyone should agree to it, but it would certainly be hard to enact.
All the stuff about “connivances” of the Malay elite is your sophistry intended to appeal to the lame brained PAS type who have little understanding of politics or economics. The Malay elite are weak. This is why the Chinese elite can run circles around them.
Absence of economic aid to a well-to-do sector of the economy, whose members are characterized by one race, the Chinese race, does not constitute economic hardship. Your argument is as farcical as arguing for more financial and military aid to Israel to help them fight against the “hardships” imposed by the dangerous and terrorizing Palestinians.
Re: “Is it usually your style to pooh-pooh other people’s ideas by declaring it “nonsensical”? You must be a real pleasure to work with, and I state that with the sincerest sarcasm.”
I do not “pooh –pooh” ideas by declaring them nonsensical, I clearly state why I find some ideas nonsensical.
Re:” Royal privilege and elite privilege should not pass on automatically from one generation to the next, regardless of race– You bring in race because your mind is already attuned to that concept, despite your kind always claiming to see “beyond race”–
Good. Now we know that you do not hold the Royal Institution in this country as absolute and beyond reproach. That is one step in the right direction. I did not bring in race. You did, with your obsession about the economic disparity between the Malays and Chinese. If you read any of my post here, you would know that I place race front and center. I’ll chalk this up to a misunderstanding which you seem prone to make.
Re: “The next generation should have to start from the same level. And I don’t consider this as communism. This is just taking the Chinese desire for “meritocracy” to the rightful next step. And everyone should agree to it, but it would certainly be hard to enact.”
I do not think you understand the concepts of communism, socialism, or even meritocracy, which you seem to conflate, in an attempt to provide a veneer of logic to your statements. “Starting from the same level” is hardly the “rightful next step” of meritocracy, since advancement in a so called meritocracy is based on attributes other than “class”.
Re:” All the stuff about “connivances” of the Malay elite is your sophistry intended to appeal to the lame brained PAS type who have little understanding of politics or economics. The Malay elite are weak. This is why the Chinese elite can run circles around them.
I also do not think you understand the meaning of sophistry. The fact that you perceive the Malay Elite as weak , the Malay community enthralled by Religion and feudalism, is merely evidence that supports my contention not yours, that the Malay elite are to blame for the problems of the Malay community and not the Chinese elite. Your PAS reference merely highlights your discomfort of independent thought outside the confines of State sanctioned Malay dogma.
Re: “Absence of economic aid to a well-to-do sector of the economy, whose members are characterized by one race, the Chinese race, does not constitute economic hardship.”
What exactly are you babbling on about? You do know there is a difference between affirmative action policies and special privileges (sic) and economic aid. You do understand that by virtue of being shut out from such programs and building and maintaining such [similar] initiatives with the connivance of the Malay political elite constitutes “hardship” rather than relying on the State to provide policies (social, educational, political) and economic (job) aid (sic).
Re:”Your argument is as farcical as arguing for more financial and military aid to Israel to help them fight against the “hardships” imposed by the dangerous and terrorizing Palestinians.”
I realize you were attempting to make an analogy but this really comes off as a non sequitur
Edit to clarify :
“Starting from the same level” is hardly the “rightful next step” of meritocracy, since advancement in a so called meritocracy is based on attributes other than “class” and “race”.
I don’t think you understand the meaning if pooh-pooh or non sequitur, let alone complicated socio-economic concepts like meritocracy or communism.
It must be eminently enjoyable for you to live in your delusional world where everything you think is right, while anyone who argues against you is by default wrong. You should take medication and stay way from the alcohol.
i thot communism never work?
There are Malay and Indian children opting for SRJK(C) ? wakakaka, there are even more Chinese and Indians going to SK , which in future might include HY’s ” Malaysian” race children !!! or are they going to ” private school ” ? ” International school ‘ ?
Karpal ghost will close down the Chinese school.. Sekolah kebangsaan wins and HY and his children will migrate to Australia and throw their 5000 year Chinese civilization skin into the landfill bin and eliminate their Hangzhi names alltogether and be called Chinks.
forrestcat. I cannot agree with you more ! Well-done ! Call a spade a spade ! I like it ‘ Chinks ‘
The truth is.. We malay dont care about these points last time. And was working together to built better malaysia together with all malaysian.
But when those chinese betray the government by choosing dap, we know those chinese had shown their true colors that they can never be trusted and hav their secret agenda.
I m not against chinese at all and got lots of best chinese friends.. Helen too :)
“chinese betrayed the gov”!!!!
Simple lah, just ban all elections and umNO malays will rule the country forever. it is politics, just because majority of DAP members are chinese you blame the chinese. How about umno 100% malay but do not have 100% malay vote? Ban PAS and PKR, ungrateful malays? Ban them, kick out MCA and MIC, you will if you are the PM i guess.
Dear Helen, this is a excerpt fro WikiLeaks on Malaysia
MCCBCHST Executive Council member Pardip Kumar
Kukreja, a businessman representing Hindus, said the
government is engaged in “an intelligent, deliberate and
methodical operation of ethnic cleansing against
non-Muslims.” While his fellow religious leaders did not
echo those sentiments, all agreed that the diplomatic
community in Kuala Lumpur should not publicly refer to
Malaysia as a tolerant Muslim country. They criticized the
public comments by British Deputy PM John Prescott during his
October 2006 visit to KL; he called Malaysia a “model for
inter-religious dialogue.” Chee thought these
“misperceptions” arose in large part from the government’s
control over the country’s mainstream media. Commenting
about media coverage of MCCBCHST’s positions on religious
issues, Chee said, “Our views are either distorted or not
published. We have difficulties being heard.”
Before we stop referring to ourselves as tolerant Muslims, give us some time to close all vernacular schools, bulldoze illegal kuils sprouting next to any mango tree and confiscate the red tokongs under the trees.
Irony, paradox, contradiction – pick a word and that describes almost every progressive nation that the Christians, Hindu and Buddhist turn to, to complain about the so-called ethnic-cleansing experienced by them. Do they even know what ethnic-cleansing is? A few million Jews gasses in Germany. a few million Bosnians and Chechen buried in mass graves, thousands of Uighur ethnic killed – those are examples of ethnic cleansing. What is your version of ethnic cleansing? A few temples torn down for being built illegally, your inability to spread your religion among the majority by hoodwinking them into sharing the name of their god? Tell the Jews you place that on par with their version of ethnic cleansing and you’ll be called anti-semitic, for sure.
You know those so-called progressive democratic nations you turn to – well, they have banned the hijab, the building of mosques with minarets, they have practised spying on the mosques and worst of all, they have totally ignored the deaths of Muslim children in drone-attacks and also direct killing of children in Gaza.
So, believe me when I tell you the Malays are way more tolerant than any other ethnic group or nation in this world.
re: “to spread your religion among the majority by hoodwinking them into sharing the name of their god”
Methinks all that “Insya Allah-ing” + #sahur /kita sama-sama puasa + the DAP evangelistas hosting all those majlis berbuka/Raya Open House + traipsing into the mosques wearing tudung … are part of the hoodwinking package.
How may muslims have been “converted”, on one hand Shamsul said the non refuse to integrate and here you said that bukapuasa/raya open house is “evangelitas”. you cannot have the cake and eat it.
re: “You can’t have the cake and eat it”.
If the evangelistas want the word Allah, then they’ve got to take hudud along with it.
If the evangelista politicians want to go “Insya Allah”-ing here and there,
want to masuk keluar masjid sana sini dengan berpakaikan tudung,
want to tweet #sahur every day during Ramadan, then these politikus Muslimin dan Muslimah Ciplak have got to respect the Muslim aspirations that their tudung/songkok garb and their “Insya Allah”/puasa playacting represent. “You can’t have the cake and eat it”.
These buggers (the nons) keep on saying that the UMNO (Malay) government is practicing ethnic cleansing. Do they really pray for ethnic cleansing to materialize? Keep on harping and you will get what you wish for!
Can you point me to your source? ‘Ethnic cleansing’ is a new one even for me.
After all these lamenting all these talk about racial relations in our beloved Malaysia, may I know then how do we the people move forward together as a nation? Dap, umno, and all those political parties are all fighting for their own ideology.
Can you people here all put forward constructive ideas and criticisms on how Malaysia can progress to the next level of nation building for I feel we are in stagnant or worse position than we have ever been.
Malays always claim they are masters of the land but in their heart they know the land is not theirs. Its Allah’s land. Instead of developinb the land and sellinb houses they prefer to sell the land to Chinese developer and they say Chinese control the economy. Chinese say I did it from my own hard work. Who is at fault?
Another example.. Government give a lot of assistance to Malay farmers even free fertilizer but instead of working on the farm and generate income, most not all will sell this fertilizer back to Chinese trader for fast gains. Who is at fault?
By changing government do you think our problems will go away? I dont believe so. But then again how do we all as a Malaysian live in peace together with toleration and respect for each other. How do we separate politics and religion and race?
These to me are different perspective of our life according to our ideology, theology and culture. Where is Malaysia heading? Please let us all put an end to our differences and put in our efforts together to put Malaysia on the road to glory again.
re: “How do we separate politics and religion and race?”
How do you expect to separate politics and religion when the DAP 3.0 is under the control of evangelistas whom you all support so vociferously, and when such evangelista chameleon politicians are so confused that they cannot even see the difference between race and nationality?
Just throwing it out there…
Though the DAP has the evangelistas at the helm, they are not selling Christianity hallelujah Jesus salvation and crutches to their dominant Chinese supporters.
Only around a little more than 10% of the M’sian Chinese are Christians. To say the evangelistas are fuelling themselves with the religion card, like their opponent, is not true. The evangelicals within DAP may have solidified their position using their faith, but the Christianity factor never left the DAP walls wrt their overwhelming Chinese support.
re: “Only around a little more than 10% of the M’sian Chinese are Christians.”
Actually, the figure is around 10% of the Malaysian population are as a whole are Christians according to the census.
With regard to the Chinese alone and specifically, if it’s true that Christians account only for 10 percent, this would mean that for every one Chinese Christian voice that we hear, we should also be hearing nine other Chinese Buddhist/Taoist etc voices.
1:9 … is this ratio accurate? Are there really 9 Chinese Buddhists/Taoists to every single Chinese Christian among DAP supporters?
re: “the Christianity factor never left the DAP walls wrt their overwhelming Chinese support”
Then how to explain the campaigning in the Sibu by-election where a vote for the DAP was made out to be a vote for Jesus, and the BN was depicted as the anti-Christ? How to explain the big win of DAP in the Sarawak state elections (a lot of Christians over there) and in GE13 where their DAP Member of Parliament for Stampin is a member of the City Harvest Church?
This is Malaysian politics, everyone is selling salvation and crutches [in affirmative action land], be it raced based or needs based.
The Evangelicals have not solidified their position using their faith, they have done this in the time honoured democratic tradition of cronyism and political favours.
Faith like most political tools is used to rile up a specific base which then gets conflated with a whole range of racial/social/political issues, which is then reduced to the Christian/Islam dialectic that is peddled by pro Establishment sites like this.
The Chinese community is perfectly within their right to vote for anyone they want to as are the Evangelicals within the DAP for politicizing certain issues, as UMNO has done for decades.
This is unfortunately the nature of the democratic process. Any dishonest tactic that the evangelicals are accused of, could be applied to UMNO as well.
Quote: “Faith like most political tools is used to rile up a specific base which then gets conflated with a whole range of racial/social/political issues, which is then reduced to the Christian/Islam dialectic that is peddled by pro Establishment sites like this. ……This is unfortunately the nature of the democratic process. Any dishonest tactic that the evangelicals are accused of, could be applied to UMNO as well.”
Exactly! This is all I ask for in face of the constant berating of Christianity/Christians on this blog – an honest assessment like yours in acknowledgement of the fact. Though I would beg to differ a little with regards to your said ‘political tool’ with reference to religion, specifically Christianity. I don’t find (I stand corrected) the DAP using the Christianity card for vote baiting. This blog likes to highlight the Jerusubang mega churches and the influence the evangelistas exert and hold there, as some kind of validation of an imminent ‘Christian political uprising’ in -the -works theory. The glitzy big churches would serve its purpose well in depicting the DAP -Christians’ wealth and influence as a credible threat.
Seriously, how many mega churches are there throughout Malaysia? From my personal humble experience, churches, charismatic ones especially occupy nothing more than pathetic upper floor shoplots. And I’ve been to many of them, trust me.
I guess all these insinuations of a DAP-influenced Christianity agenda hog wash is getting to me. From my point of view, the Chinese voted for DAP for the simple reason they detest UMNO and its corruption. It has nothing to with the Malays in fact. The Chinese embracing PAS is a clear indication their beef are with UMNO, not Malays.
A fair response on your part and although I think we agree on the bigger picture, I do think the devil is in the details. Such as :
Re:Though I would beg to differ a little with regards to your said ‘political tool’ with reference to religion, specifically Christianity. I don’t find (I stand corrected) the DAP using the Christianity card for vote baiting.
While I think the “Allah” issue esp in Sarawak and Sabah, “rise up and take Subang for Jesus”, the anti Establishment sermons, the vote drives by churches and other such phenomena points to an overt political awakening of Christians in this country while not conflating Religion (Christianity) and Race (Chinese) has benefitted the DAP.
Conversely, the attacks by the UMNO Establishment against Christians (and other Religious minorities) The Arabisation process, “the spitting out f the holy sacrament”, cow head protest, forced conversions, unproven accusations of conversion on the Christian side, propaganda of how religious minorities are persecuted in other Muslim countries and other such provocations have had the same effect as the former which has benefited the DAP .
I do think we should separate the these two propositions :
1. Christians have every right to be politically active
2. The evangelical movement has a strong influence in the DAP, which allows them to define the discourse.
Neither of these propositions are anathema to the democratic process.
The question is not how many mega churches are there in Malaysia (although for the record, I think the biggest one in South East Asia, is located in Malaysia) but rather how many political personalities within the DAP belong to them and how influential are they in the party ?
Sub contracting religious worship to small shop lot concerns with the parent company based overseas (normally in America) is nothing new, in countries where Christianity or more specifically the evangelical movement is being constrained for whatever reasons. See, certain countries in Africa, for instance.
Again nothing in this is unusual in a democratic process and to argue otherwise, would mean arguing for some kind of fascist alternative, which more and more seems like the go to philosophy for some on this board.
I do think it is important to separate agendas [whether it is UMNO or the DAP] though and pin pointing certain agendas is important for those of us who believe in a secular state or at least striving for that ideal.
According to your logic, malay is not the ‘master’ of the land. It’s GOD’s land. Ok.
So i can dash in and rummage your house for anything i want, eat or use any facility in your house. Please don’t tiow me lor.. or make police report aaa…
After all, your house is built on top of GOD’s land.Technically it’s not your house, it’s GOD’s house. You cannot claimed it’s your house.
Quotes from Jeff perceptive.. and my opinion.
1. Malay prefer to sell the land to Chinese developer and they say Chinese control the economy..
– it happen to all ethnicity, when they are not keen to develop it. we also have offer from Chinese to sell their land.. most of malay is not try to ask us buy their land because “shame” factor.
2. Government give a lot of assistance to Malay farmers even free fertilizer but instead of working on the farm and generate income, most not all will sell this fertilizer back to Chinese trader for fast gains.
-having family rubber plantation, it puzzle me how u can sell a low quality government fertilizer to Chinese. while the supplier is from Robert Kuok fertilizer company to RISDA. every year we need to buy few tonnes superior quality fertilizer from Germany. please mention specific type of fertilizer that malay sell and chinese buy it.
I dun know helen, my kid do science in f4. (see ak, it is not that hard to say I dun know, now u know the problem for one that attend amacam uni n dun read lunyu?). however I doubt there is much difference. I know what u and some folks here trying to attain, but no, I dun think the history subject is the “culprit”, most history text is dry, factual and lack emotion, unlike the chinese language subject. one chapter I read when I was in f1 :
“吾今以此书与汝永别矣！吾作此书时，尚是世中一人；汝看此书时，吾已成为阴间一鬼。吾作此书，泪珠和笔墨齐下，不能竟书而欲搁笔！” (With this letter I now bid you farewell! When I’m writing this letter now, I’m still a man in the land of the living; When you read this letter, I’ll be a ghost in the netherworld. As I’m writing this letter, teardrops fall down on the page along with ink. I almost put down my pen)
lin jue min wrote the letter before he went into battle of a uprising that many believe eventually led to xinhai revolution. ergo you can’t read chinese literature without emotionally attach to the land that cultivate it, likewise I dun think one could master eng literature but being ignorant about england, or to have a grasp of islamic culture by not knowing anything arab. yes there are people that try to assert some chapters of the chinese language subject do have political agenda and induce affection toward china, but can we claim the same about those that learn eng literature and islamic knowledge and civilisation?
I opine that many perceptions about chinese (similar in the case of malay indian dll) is not true, we can always learn more from each other, but definitely not from one like those twin jokers. I am not saying their view is wrong, most of the time their comment is actually quite hilarious, and do provide entertaining value to this blog :)
re: “I know what u and some folks here trying to attain, but no, I dun think the history subject is the “culprit”
You would be quite mistaken. I think TS Muhyiddin making History a compulsory pass at SPM level is a bad decision.
I also think it is indicative of how Umno keeps taking the wrong measures to counter the Chinese ‘insurgency’.
My reading is that Umno (in the form of the DPM-cum-Education Minister) decided that ingraining a knowledge of Malaysian History would somehow set the recalcitrant Chinese kids aright wrt to their attitude on citizenship.
I don’t believe this planned ‘remedy’ is going to work to cure the Chinese anti-establishment sentiments in the young generation just as making the BM paper a compulsory pass did not manage to instill a love for the national language either.
What you say about language and literature vis-a-vis cultivating an attachment would be correct, in my opinion.
I’ve interviewed before college-age kids (applying for financial aid) who plan to major in Chinese studies. They’re not the culprits of national disunity. The politicians, particularly those from DAP 3.0 of the evangelista persuasion, are the biggest culprits. Most definitely and without a doubt (forgive my tautology but I cannot stress more on their culpability.)
I beg to differ.
Whatever the intention of Muhyidin in making Sejarah as compulsory for passing the exam, the move is a good one.
What Muhyidin did was basically telling them the very basic facts o the nation. again it is very subjective. Like singing National anthem before we watch movie in cinemas. It is a good move. Only it cant be quantified.
The move on sejarah subject will not solve all the problems of racial card that plagues Malaysia. But it certainly a move in the right direction.
I often mentioned that massive citizenship exercise by 9 Malay Sultans on eve of independence as a source of beauty, generosity worth a world record. I said this not to irritate the Chinese or anybody. But once a while it is good to remember when it all started.
And i never fail to notice that every time I said about that, all of them suddenly become very quiet. But some young Chinese friends of mine were simply dumbfounded.
And suddenly I can feel that their anger somewhat “recedes”
“My reading is that Umno (in the form of the DPM-cum-Education Minister) decided that ingraining a knowledge of Malaysian History would somehow set the recalcitrant Chinese kids aright wrt to their attitude on citizenship.”
The same notion that closing vernacular schools and forcing the Indian and Chinese pupils to attend National Schools will make them become “good citizens” (read: become obedient unquestioning drones to Barisan Nasional).
From my experience, non Malays who attend National Schools tend to be more sceptical of government policy.
One of the rare times we are in agreement, AC-DC.
As I said earlier, if closing chinese school is the intention, UMNO would have done that 50 years ago.
Sceptical or not, do tell we why we are the only country with separate school system?
As for being sceptical, what a big deal about that. A sovereign government still can be formed despite massive Chinese rejection.
“tak kenal maka tak cinta”. Is it a healthy trend if we do not know the history of the land where we accorded as citizens?
“I also think it is indicative of how Umno keeps taking the wrong measures to counter the Chinese ‘insurgency’.”
can agree with you except the above, what make u think umno want to do thing u deem is correct ?
n the final one on biggest culprits, what we r having now repreresent progress :)
HY. My kids studied in SK schools and went on to LSE and King’s College London. And they now hold good jobs in Kuala Lumpur.
In life, there are always problems and obstacles to overcome. Happiness and satisfaction come from the resolutions of difficulties. As ordinary folk, there is no use blaming this and that. Just avoid the problem and adopt a positive approach.
Look at your arrogant attitude of calling others ‘jokers’. Have you ever asked yourself have you done enough for yourself and your family. I have met many like you HY always blaming others for their unfortunate circumstances.
HY. My facts for you. I studied at the Methodist Boys’ School Kuala Lumpur after World War II ended on 15 August 1945. There was no library, no science lab, no special teachers like in the Government aided school, Victoria Institution. I just studied and had betteer grades than your hero the brilliant Lee Kuan Yew at the entrance to the best college at Cambridge University. I had no proper education until I arrived in London. My English was poor and I only lost out to the English undergraduates on this. I even had a special letter of commendation from the Queen’s Chaplain at Windsor Castle based on my entrance results ! If I can do it, why can’t you without insulting me !
Ms H. I have been scolded 13 times by the Tengkus down to Datos in my life-time. This does not mean I run and join the Opposition and bear a grudge against others. I just ignored all these nonsense because I know more about these folks than they know about themselves.
I look ahead and move on. And 53 others like HY who thought I would die before them. They are all dead and the youngest 39 ! I have come to the conclusion that what I believe and followed in life is normal and sustainable which is important.
Ms H. Since we are on the subject of human behaviour in our beloved Malaysia, let me share my experiences with all on the subject of a motorcar accident. In my experience, the first fellows to stop and help me have always been the Indians followed by the Malays.
The Chinese will slow down their cars and smile. Not one and I say it again, not one will stop their cars to help. My description of the Chinese is self-explanatory. I suppose this behaviour applies to their politics also. Who are the cannon fodder for the Singaporean Trojan Horse DAP or the MCA ?
“why can’t you without insulting me !”
i dun comment much on race n religion, but i am fine with personal attack ie insult when one is insulting my ‘race’ with stupid generalisation n stereotyping, ‘joker’ is pretty mild by any standard, if u want to, i can go deeper n further, but i know uncle u r harmless.
HY. WHO INSULTS YOUR RACE ? You live in dreamland. You dare not openly confront those who insult you . Stupid and picked on me. I think your head is flat and slimy !
ak, the moment u stop pretend like u r talking on behalf of the chinese, i stop. because yr sycophantic n bootlicking attitute make me puke.
HY. You are a failure in life that is why you want glory here by trying to bully me with your lies. You have the brain of a mouse and the courage of cat. You can puke as much as you like as you have no facts to argue agaiinst me. Present some facts boy and do not blame the Malays all the time living in Tanah Melayu. Stupid. It takes two to puke like you, boy. Your inferiority complex is so big you cannot see it. And sins of your forefathers you now have to bear. You only know how to insult others. What about yourself and your 4f kid ?
HY. Your forefathers depite all the difficulties survived and produced you. And now you are bellyacheing everyday and insult people like me for no reason at all. Unless you and your 4f child have already made plans to leave Tanah Melayu, you will have to face political reality of the day in this beloved Malaysia. The more you insult others the more unhappy you become. Carry on !
“I dun know helen, my kid do science in f4. (see ak, it is not that hard to say I dun know, now u know the problem for one that attend amacam uni n dun read lunyu?). however I doubt there is much difference. I know what u and some folks here trying to attain, but no, I dun think the history subject is the “culprit”, most history text is dry, factual and lack emotion, unlike the chinese language subject. one chapter I read when I was in f1 :”
Please cite portions of the current history textbook which dry and suggest ways to improve the presentation of the textbook.
Please elaborate on the effectiveness of the writing of the Form One Chinese language subject and how this form of writing can improve the presentation of the current History subject.
Inputs if you can provide will add value to the current discussion.
is this necessary? history is history, we cant expect a historian to write the three kingdoms in the form of ‘romance of the three kingdoms’, hence if one really want to learn the history of 3 kingdoms era, he should read ‘history of the three kingdoms’, of the ’24 dynastic histories’.
however recently there are many authors that write history with a very ‘grass roots’ approach, perhaps u can try ‘ming dynasty events’ (明朝那些事儿), it was written in a funny, humor and ridicule style, plus with psychological depiction of the many main character.
I think to make history subject interesting is much depending on the laoshi. I am lucky to meet one history laoshi in f2, a middle age malay guy, he really know the magic to create an ‘illusion’ that we r no more chinese. the same ‘illusion’ happen again when I am with the pkr n pas buddy.
HY. Grow up in 21st century Malaysia. You are in dreamland.
So you have no ideas to add value to the discussion. Typical!
Mulan. As a Chinaman, you are a typical English speaking type – argumentative and hollow of cultural ballast. The typical Mandarin speaking type like HY is hollow with no cultural ballast and has a big big inferiority complex. Of course, I have answers for how kids can do well in schools even in SK schools like my kids. But you Chinese, Malaysian Chinese are so very arrogant, do you deserve any help at all ? Just look back on all you comments and HY’s for starters.
I donated the World’s finest collection of Malaysiana which I collected since 1954, consisting of 3,000 books to UTAR. Talk, talk, talk. As the ancient Chinese say, ‘ Your spittle is more than your phlegm “.
Right on bro!
HY is so typical, he could have been LGE in disguised curi-curi pandang Helen’s blog!
HY kalau bahasa pun tak faham, sure lu xbleh appreciate something you don’t understand maa!
Kalau itu sejarah buat dalam bahasa berbunga-bunga, nanti orang macam you kata itu UMNO gomen mahu bunuh semua cina, just because you tak faham bahasa.
Ketuanan Melayu bermaksud Melayu tidak diperkulikan di tanah air sendiri. Bukan Melayu Tuan Cina Kuli. Itu pun lu orang tak faham. Suruh belajar bahasa lu tak mau! Itu la sudah selalu salah faham. Bodoh!
Keturunan Pendatang pun salah faham. Bukan kata keturunan pendatang haram. Tapi keturunan pendatang. Kalau lu olang panggil itu Melayu, huanna, pasti la, lu olang keturunan pendatang dan bukan pribumi. Kalau pribumi tentulah lu tak panggil Melayu sebagai huanna!
Sajak yang tak dry yang HY quote tu melambak kat alam Melayu. Tapi pendatang macam HY mana boleh faham!!!
uncle cantonese, saliva more than tea la, lu cantonese mana? cantoonese amacam uni?
HY, boy ! If you are self-acclaimed Chinaman even though you are from Congo, speak Chinese of whatever kind. Do not show your very bad Malay ! Macham, macham !
Ms H. Please read http;//www.tremeritus.com/2013/11/21/daft-sinkies-will-lose-their-country/ for laughs !
HY and Mulan. Since both of you speak so much about the Chinese, do you know that 99.9% of the female actresses in HKTVB films are SHANGHAINESE SPEAKING BAD CANTONESE ?
At least they speak better Cantonese speaking the Yap Chi Sor Cantonese. Hai Ya!
read the history of great wall movie enterprise, china industry did start in shanghai, when ccp took over china in 1949 (yr fav year which u keep repeating”, many in that industry went south ie hk, taiwan. but hktvb started in the late sixties. so yr 99.9% is again, joke.
btw r u sure the other joker know what we talking about? his ‘argument’ are mostly straw men if not fantasy.
HY and Mulan. How can both of you be Chinese and claimed others insult your race when you cannot tell the difference between a Shanghainese and a Cantonese ? All the female actresses on HKTVB are Shanghainese. By the same token, I call the neo-Christians ‘bongo bongo voodoo choral dancing troupes’ who look CHINESE ON THE OUTSIDE BUT ACTUALLY FROM THE DEEP SOUTH INSIDE. Some of them even graduated from there. Right, Ms H ?
I can differentiate. In the history of the TVB having a Shanghainese history starts from Shaw Brothers. The current TVB management comes from the Shaw studios who are Shanghainese. Mona Fong still leads the TV studio.
In come to think of it, the Shanghainese Shaw are pioneers of the Hong Kong film industry and the Malay Singapore film industry
HY and Mulan. Logically, the Bongo Bongo Voodoo Choral and Dancing Troupes are not CHINESE, they only look like CHINESE.
ak, if u want to see the prick of absolutism, u need only gaze into yr nearest mirror. there r many shanghainese in hk, for instance lydia sum n lisa wang in tvb, more so in the earlier 50’s, the most famous was i think xia meng, jinyong adored her as a living goddess, even the shanghai great writer eileen zhang wrote scrip when she were in hk. stop yr kiddie joke.
HY. You are caught by me with your/her pants down. You know nuts about the Chinese. How can you say others insult you when you only look Chinese on the outside ? Only when I brought up the Shanghainese then you start jabbering like Darwin’s kids. Go home to the Congo where you rightly belong.
cantonese use the term ‘si hang’ for toilet, some might use more elegance term today, w.c. ring a bell? so what is so special about hk cantonese? hker still use the term ‘ce suo’.
guangzhou ren comment that hk cantonese lacking originality, full of ‘懒音’, sort of relax pronunciation, but who give guangzhou ren such authority? it is just different, everything change n evolve. what a bloody stupid comment from one peranakan.
Ms H. Well-done, HY ! You confirmed you are yellow outside and black inside. How about you, Mulan ?
Mulan. You are great. A greater person than that Manderin educated HY with the huge inferiority complex
besides masturbating each other, perhaps u shd spend some times to re-read yr own comment.
lets rewind the mp3 n see what u asked “do you know that 99.9%…” n i implied that i know by citing many many example which i dun think u awared of any, and to hint u dun use big word like 99.9% n all, yr knowleddge on anything chinese is still at puerile level despite yr age. but that is fine by me, i dun wear fung keong so no worry.
HY. Your lack of intellect compels you to be vulgar and abusive which you take as your crowning glory. Do not buy up the stock of Brylcreem at the 7 Eleven for your own use only !
Ms H. Finally, I ask HY and Mulan some hard-nosed questions. When I see a Malay person, I know he/she is Malay and a Muslim. Right ? When I see an Indian person from Chennai, I know he/she is Indian and a Hindu. Right ? But when I see a Chinese, Malaysian Chinese these days, he/she could be agnostic. Thai or Sri Lankan or Tibetan or Chinese Buddhist, Daoist, Confucianist, Muslim, neo-Christians, conventional Christians, Moonie, or anything. Right ?
Then, above the religious divide, the Chinese are divided into English or Mandarin educated types, then the major Clans divided as Han (except Hainanese) or Lao (Hainanese) which are again divided into sub-clans. To add to the confusion, we throw in their political affiliations. SEE HOW FRACTIONALIZED AND DE-TRIBALIZED THE MALAYSIAN CHINESE ARE AND SUBJECTED TO ALL SORTS OF MANIPULATIONS which massage their self-acclaimed cleverness.
we recognised a chinese base on our shared commonality in our weltanschauung at that point in time, despite our differences in education, language, culture, dress, dielect or clan.
u r a anglo.
HY. Do not invent new words which no one understands not even your 4f kid. Grow up before your kid overtakes you. Boy !
Ms H. And further, this is the main reason why the British insisted all Chinamen/women put down what DIALECT they spoke in order to winkle out these peculiar Chinese Tribal characteristics. But in our Malaysian Democracy all these points were forgotten and Malaysia is the only country in the World in which the Chinese only look like Chinese but SOMETHING ELSE INSIDE !
british did many wonderful thing, one of the great contribution is bastardise the brain of a brainless idiot to misconstrue himself as chinese.
HY. Your words show very clearly your inferiority complex of the first order. Strange, you look Chinese but not a Chinese inside.
Ms H. Therefore, for any non-Chinese to think that the Chinese, the Malaysian Chinese are a homogenous group of people in Malaysia, are incorrect because inside them, you will never know whether that person is a friend or not ! Interesting !
Reply to one Malay post # 126
After your last weak sauce reply to me, I thought, this guy obviously has no idea what he is talking about, and I was right. The only one spewing inanities and narrow mindedness is you.
You vomit out these moronic justifications, parroting the sub intellectual garbage of those cretins who champion (not credibly) race based polices all the while tripping over contradictions you seem oblivious to.
For example. In an exchange with me, you referenced the fact that Malays are bound by feudalistic imperatives. Then in an exchange with HH, you said that affirmative action programs have a trickle-down effect. This trickle-down effect is in reality a system of patronage and cronyism.
So, on the one hand you argue that the feudal mentality necessitates some kind of affirmative action program but on the other you concede that such programs are in effect a system of patronage that is the underlying basis for the feudal mentality that you claim is deleterious to the Malay community.
Add to these the numerous misconception you have of economic systems and ideologies and your sprinkling of terms you have no real understanding of – your “rightful next step of meritocracy” for instance. I won’t bother dipping into your puddle of nonsense about taxing the rich = taxing the Chinese
The irony is that there are credible arguments for race based affirmative action programs and on this very board I and another poster, I hate n’sync had the same argument with me arguing your position and the latter arguing for needs based programs.
All your comments here deserve mockery and it would not have to be me, mocking them but you just cannot seem to make one of your stupid points without dragging me into your mess. I find this more amusing than offensive.
Conrad. I agree with most of your comments. There is no need for anyone to run down another in our beloved Malaysia. Each of us have strong points and weak points as well. The present conundrum at ground zero level is the result of the present leaderships on all sides, no more, no less . This is the reason why I always present the facts especially historical facts but these do not actually show anyone person is weak or deficient. This is only a mind-set feeling. Good or bad.
Thanks for your words, AK47.
I agree with you.
one Malay and Conrad. I am not siding one against another. We all have bad and good points. I just want all of us be aware of our differences being different types of personalities. That’s all. So far so good ! What has cushioned us from worse scenarios are the facts that the British left us with a good system, we have good and normal personalities to administer and full of natural resources. But sooner or later, all these will run out and our halcyon and idyllic days will be over.
re: “we have good and normal personalities to administer and full of natural resources”
I’m not sure that the DAP evangelistas are all that normal. They hear God’s voice in their heads.
Unless I’m mistaken, the Muslims believe Muhammad to be the last prophet whereas the Christians believe in the second coming. So unless the DAP 3.0 Dear Leaders are the Messiah, neither they (nor anyone else) should be hearing divine voices whispering to them.
Only the Imam Mahdi (from whichever branch of the Abrahamic faith) is permitted to hear The Voice. I doubt that any of the Jerusubang pretenders could be the Chosen One.
Ms H. I surmise that our beloved Malaysia will overnight become one of the First 25 best countries in the World if all of us (including the authorities and their detractors become NORMAL). It is as easy as this ! See what happened to Singapore vide. http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/11/26/kl-summons-sg-envoy-over-alleged-spying-again.. A Singapore created World’s Best fiasco. One honest Singaporean comment. Simon. ‘Singapore seems to have a habit of selling their friends and neighbours.’ sic Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. Another comment,’ Caught red-handed ‘. When Renong wanted to sell Time Engineering to Singapore in 2000, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad commented,’ You sing and tell !’
I agree with your sentiments in this post, AK47.
I am glad you are not taking sides, that was not my intent.
I post here to have my ideas challenged and interact with fellow Malaysians whose ideas may be different from my own, too bad some people think that ad hominems and insults (racial or otherwise) is the way to do that.
Looks like someone with the moniker AK47 has only got a pipsqueak pea shooter. Compared to him, I should declare myself the Tsar Bomba, just to describe my massive genitalia, leave alone my intellect.
The fact Conrad has to run to AK47 for solace means that I have totally decimated him so badly his rectum must feel the pain while reading this. Get some Preparation H, you poor sod.
one Malay. No need to be vulgar in the discussion of human differences. The Malay is different from the Chinese. The Chinese is different from an Indian. Abuse shows negativity and reveals ignorance of facts. Massive genitalia does not mean you do a good job. And I am not telling you how.
Whether you like it or not one Malay, I was the quy who conceptualised the acquisition and repatriation of the PNB flagship Sime Darby PLC in 1972 for only RM23 Millions when Malay portion of the Malaysian economy was only 1% ! I always say in our beloved country Malaysia either we are good friends or we are related. You talk so much one Malay which is unnatural, where were you in 1972 ?
Another response from the supercilious Conrad with absolutely no substance.
I never claimed that affirmative action has a trickle down effect. The term “trickle down” economics itself was popularized by the US Republicans, who are staunchly anti affirmative action. Never would i conflate these two contradictory concepts. In one deft response, I have debunked one of many of Conrad’s fallacious and self-contradictory claims. It seems I need not put even the slightest effort to discredit this Conrad character. He can discredit without my help.
“trickle-down effect is in reality a system of patronage and cronyism. ” where is the evidence? A Hollow contention from a hollow mind.
I don’t find Conrad’s comments humorous. I honestly find his comments sad and depressing. It is quite obvious to me, judging from comments by Conrad and HH, that those with fancy degrees and a talent for writing can still make catastrophic mistakes. What is the point of education if such people are so intellectually dishonest and mentally deficient?
The only saving grace is that such people (chinese-y people) do not control Malaysian. So suck it. I will enjoy my privileges and rub in the faces of your kind for a long time to come.
Re:” Another response from the supercilious Conrad with absolutely no substance.”
Y’know it’s not very hard to demolish your points, when you begin with an ad hominem and proceed with your usual conflations.
Re:” I never claimed that affirmative action has a trickle down effect.”
Yes you did. In fact here it is:
Reply to HH post #121 “Though it is true they have benefited, you have to acknowledge other Malays who are not politically
connected have seen substantial gains, too.”
In fact you did more than just justify my criticism, which I only discovered by your rather bone headed detour of Republican economics (For those interested, there is much more to it this than what one Malay has babbled on about) .
The key is the “not politically connected”, which not only gives substance to those (Republican) dogma (not about affirmative action but rather about a specific kind of economics or policies [proponents of affirmative action have used the same trickle down effect] – like what one Malay has alluded to) but furthermore illustrates your ineptness of mounting a coherent defense.
Re: “Never would i conflate these two contradictory concepts”
Yes you did. In fact here it is:
Reply to Conrad # 129 “Malays are sorely behind in the universally accepted practice of enriching one’s family and the future generations of that family. They have a feudal mentality,…..”
Now this part is interesting because, it characterizes your lack of understanding of your own arguments. In your response to HH, you gave substance to those very ideas of so-called “Republican economics” that you despise but in your response to me, you highlighted the fact that the mentality of the Malays made them unable to compete with the other races, which to you necessitates those polices that in the end make them unable to compete. Very, very strange.
Re:” I have debunked one of many of Conrad’s fallacious and self-contradictory claims. It seems I need not put even the slightest effort to discredit this Conrad character. He can discredit without my help.”
When one makes this claim, it is wise to actually offer up some of my “self-contradictory “claims. Otherwise, one is just pissing in the wind and getting himself stained, like what you are doing here. Go ahead, pick a part my posts. You would discover that I choose my words very carefully. Then again, you have not demonstrated any ability to analyze an argument merely beyond parroting words, you don’t seem to have an understanding off.
Re:” “trickle-down effect is in reality a system of patronage and cronyism. ” where is the evidence? A Hollow contention from a hollow mind.
Here it is again. YOUR OWN WORDS.
“Though it is true they have benefited, you have to acknowledge other Malays who are not politically connected have seen substantial gains, too.”
And again please pay attention to the “not politically connected” part. That really is the gift that keeps on giving.
Re;” What is the point of education if such people are so intellectually dishonest and mentally deficient?”
I do wonder at times if intelligence has a trickle down effect when it comes to affirmative action policies. Reading your blathering here, I can see that you have probably overdosed on those smart pills they were attempting to push on kids a while back.
Protip: They don’t work.
I do not think you are intellectually dishonest. I just think you are dishonest. I do not think you are mentality deficient, I just think, you get worked up when your arguments are demolished.
Re:” The only saving grace is that such people (chinese-y people) do not control Malaysian.”
According to you they do. And getting more in control every day.
Re:” So suck it. I will enjoy my privileges and rub in the faces of
your kind for a long time to come.”
Apparently, those people have advanced higher without those privileges. So yeah, whatever works for you.
Looks like someone needs a lesson in reading. I suggest you start revising the ABCs again. I never used the term “trickle down”, which you obviously don’t know to be a political and recently accepted economic term adopted by political hacks. I clearly stated that I acknowledged the Malay political class have benefitted from affirmative action, but I also point out that the non-politically connected have benefitted too.
Again, let me emphasize that you used the term ” trickle down”, which is a loaded term used by republican econo-political pundits.
I don’t need to capitalize my response because I am not a troglodyte who needs to “shout” my comments. Pity you. I should let you win once in a while. But nah.
I suggest you start expanding your limited knowledge of economics and political ideology beyond the confines of whatever echo chamber you visit. Perhaps then you would not be so literal in your interpretation of terminology and themes which you evidently have trouble grasping.
Your responses here have been moronic. I don’t capitalize my response to shout but for emphasis, something you would understand if you were ever in a position to make a credible, coherent point.
Instead your troglodyte behaviour consists of rubbing your special privileges in the face[s] of people who have advanced far beyond what you have with them, something which pisses you off no end. I like that I really do.
Perhaps if you actually had a point and were not so insecure, you would not have to declare victory. If you actually won, it would be obvious. Try harder. You may not be as smart as you think you are, but sometimes even the village idiot by mistake makes a valid point.
What a biased and bullshit survey. Why there are no survey from chinese side? Are you guys really sure that all chinese in Malaysia are free from racist mindset and the chinese are actually the decent victim and purely innocent?
I can seee that you are one of those who are not that innocent, Helen Ang. And i can see how shallow u r ( from ur blog).
Hello Hellen Ang.. i must say that u have been quite fair and impartialled in presentation of opinions and surveys from the Malays. if u were partialy chinese there wont be any pro malay remarks…
i am a malay and i never cared/bothered/think like that about almost all the topics in the survey, so my answer is false to almost all. Just one which i wonder – is it true that chinese look down on malays? but whatever the answer is, it doesn’t really matter, right..
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