Posted in CINA

Riots and the pendatang

The last time Singapore had home-grown riots was in 1964 where there were the Sino-Malay clashes in July and September. Disagreement on the handling of the riots was one of the factors leading to the separation of Singapore from the rest of the federation of Malaysia later in August the following year.

The Malaysian Insider Islam
Non-Muslim Chinese who know Islam better than the Malays

Singapore’s other recent riot was in 1969, and experienced as a spillover from Malaysia’s May 13.

‘Pendatang’ is a very sensitive word that is verboten to the Dapsters. Use of the word against the Chinese caused Umno’s Ahmad Ismail, the Bukit Bendera (Penang) division chief, to be suspended by his party.

Nasir Safar, who was Najib Razak’s communication officer, had to resign his post after he uttered unsavoury descriptions regarding the early Chinese and Indian ‘pendatang’s.

Kamus Dewan defines the word “pendatang” to mean “orang asing yang datang ke atau memasuki sesebuah negeri lain”.

Last night’s rioters in Singapore fit the ‘pendatang’ description.

Singapore residents are 74.2% Chinese.

Do you think that Singapore’s majority community would allow the newly arrived ‘South Indians’ (people from the Indian sub-continent) to become citizens and permanent residents in their island republic if this foreign labour currently working there were to apply?

Why do you think that the Chinese in Malaysia go berserk should anyone even allude to their pendatang origins?

When does a descendent of the pendatang cease to be perceived as one in the eyes of the majority community?

Recommended reads:

Amanat Dato’ Onn, Mac 1946, hayati lah

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ABOVE: The ‘WWJD’ question (What would Jesus do?) that is the motto among evangelistas

Author:

I have no Faceook or Twitter.

109 thoughts on “Riots and the pendatang

  1. “Do you think that Singapore’s majority community would allow the newly arrived ‘South Indians’ (people from the Indian sub-continent) to become citizens and permanent residents in their island republic if this foreign labour currently working there were to apply?”

    Yes. In fact, I know several Indian nationals who have permanent residency in Singapore. Some have even become citizens.

    They work in the IT, finance, and other professional sectors.

    1. Sorry if I had not been explicit enough in the article although you are also being deliberately disingenuous. I meant the same demography (i.e. corresponding income-level and lack of professional qualifications) as those who had engaged in the riot last night.

      If one has a lot of money (bring in capital) or is highly qualified, then he would be taken in by the host country — that’s basic practice. This principle applies to your IT experts, and do note that you yourself say they’re PR. Permanent residents are still not citizens.

      Singapore has a huge number of people staying there who are neither citizens nor PRs.

      As at June 2013, citizens are 2,623,700, permanent residents are 112,100 and nons (neither citizen nor PR) are 311,300.

      311,300 persons staying/working temporarily in Singapore make up 10.2 percent of their 3,047,100 inhabitants. It’s a group comparable in size to the Christians in Malaysia.

      Obviously I’m talking about the low-income Indians who lack high professional qualifications – as per the question you cited – since the theme of this article is the riot, and this same group are the subject of the current online chatter among Singaporeans.

      1. You mentioned that “Singapore residents are 74.2% Chinese”. Then, proceed to pitch the question if the majority race would accept the Indian foreigners as permanent residents or citizens. But the fact is, as you yourself acknowledge, that Indian foreigners would be accepted as permanent residents and citizens if they have relevant skills and wealth.

        It is more a matter of skills and wealth that the foreign person can bring in, not race as your question implies.

        The population of Singapore is over 5 million, just to correct.

        Meanwhile, in our Malaysia, we have heard stories of foreign spouses of Malaysian citizens being unable to obtain permanent residence despite having tertiary qualifications, work experience, and having lived here for many years.

        1. Okay, your correction accepted. Over five million it is.

          As for skills and wealth being the criteria, you’re right again.

          So how come the Chinese immigrants who did not have either skills or wealth were accepted by the Malays to become Malayan citizens in 1957? Are you saying the government of Tunku Abdul Rahman and the Malay rulers made an error in judgment?

          1. Re. Chinese immigrants

            The majprity of New Citizens in Singapore are Mainland Chinese and that’s a fact …

            “More than 3,600 new immigrants will be awarded the Singapore citizenship this weekend islandwide. Singapore has been granting on average of 25,000 new citizenship each year.”

            http://therealsingapore.com/content/3600-new-immigrants-will-receive-their-singapore-citizenship-weekend

            Re. Are you saying the government of Tunku Abdul Rahman and the Malay rulers made an error in judgment?

            Knowing what we know today, I don’t think Tunku and any other Malay Rulers, Leaders would have allowed that to happen i.e. Jus Soli and Negara Brunei Darul Salam did just that in the 1980’s.

          2. “So how come the Chinese immigrants who did not have either skills or wealth were accepted by the Malays to become Malayan citizens in 1957?”

            It was one of the terms and conditions for Independence. Keep in mind that Penang and Melaka (Singapore would only join six years later) were Straits Settlement territories which had different citizenship laws.

            “Are you saying the government of Tunku Abdul Rahman and the Malay rulers made an error in judgment?”

            Considering the fact that the Chinese and Indians also had the expertise in the civil service, engineering, plantation management, mining, and other trades critical for our newly independent nation, our leaders certainly made a good judgement. Also, keep in mind that many did not get citizenship, an issue that is still ongoing in the Indian community.

            1. re: “It was one of the terms and conditions for Independence. Keep in mind that Penang and Melaka (Singapore would only join six years later) were Straits Settlement territories which had different citizenship laws.”

              (i) You are aware that there was a movement that had wanted Penang to secede rather than become a part of Malaya?

              (ii) Britain would have granted Independence anyway. They were bound to do so by the Atlantic Charter. And the historical mood was for Great Britain to release its empire. Other British colonies in Africa got their Independence too.

              (iii) The Straits Chinese were in no position to compel Britain to compel the Malay rulers of the FMS and UFMS to accept all the other Chinese as citizens.

              re: “Considering the fact that the Chinese and Indians also had the expertise in the civil service, engineering, plantation management, mining, and other trades critical for our newly independent nation, our leaders certainly made a good judgement.”

              One million Chinese engineers, plantation managers and other highly qualified professionals in the mid-1950s getting citizenship. I’m impressed!!

              1. Hahahaha… even British cant resist The Sultans’ wishes not to grant easy citizenship in 1948. And malay states have their own citizenship terms and conditions. It was the Sultans’ generosity to grant the Jus Soli after persuaded by UMNO.

                Where did you learn HISTORY AC-DC? From LGE kah? And the wow factors were coming from Skilfull workers from China and India.. And Wallah, we were having sets of Engineer, Lawyer, Doctors, Magistrate from Mainland China dan India in 1957.. hehehe

                1. “It was the Sultans’ generosity to grant the Jus Soli after persuaded by UMNO.”

                  And why did the Alliance (UMNO, MCA and MIC) persuade the Sultans’ to do so?

                  Perhaps we should take a look at the results of our first election in 1955. 79% of votes for the Alliance. Many of the Indian and Chinese voters supported the Alliance. Certainly an incentive to bring them into the citizenry.

                  1. Yes, we should indeed take a look at the results of our first election on 1955, two years before Merdeka and before the granting of citizenship en masse.

                    There were a lot of Chinese inhabitants in Malaya at that time, 37.2%. However please remember that non-citizens cannot vote.

                    Chinese who registered as electors numbered 143,000. That’s 11.2 percent. So that means that out of every 10 Malayans who voted in 1955, only one was Chinese and they would mostly be in Penang and Malacca.

                    Malays made up about half the population then and they were 1,078,000 of the voters in 1955. Malays made up 84.2 percent of the electorate. In other words, out of every 10 voters in 1955, 8-and-half were Malay.

                    Indian voters were 3.9 percent or 50,000 voters. Indians had a problem of statelessness which still persists. That’s because they were semi-literate workers living in remote plantations and with strong ties to Mother India. In the mid-1950s, many still harboured hopes of returning to Mother India (like the Bangladeshi workers of Singapore, they were regarded as transient labour).

                    When you say “many of the Chinese and Indian voters supported the Alliance”, you are wrong.

                    In the next election of 1959 – after the liberalization of citizenship during Merdeka – Chinese in the urban areas voted predominantly for the opposition.

                    In the 1964 general election (the same year S’pore had her Sino-Malay riots), even more Chinese voted for the opposition.

                    In the May 10th, 1969 GE, the Chinese votes were a tidal wave for the opposition. This you know lah, kan.

                    In a nutshell, it was NOT the Alliance that persuaded the Sultans in 1957. It was Umno.

                    Just as today, the BN is Umno (+PBB). MCA and MIC have negligible influence in BN.

              2. The Alliance of UMNO, MIC, and MCA was supported by the British as they were an alternative to the left and socialist independence movements of the period. Better to grant Independence to a political ally, than a political group which could potentially become pro-Moscow or pro-Beijing.

                The Rulers had an incentive to support the Alliance, as the alternative independence movements were certainly not as warm to the monarchy as the Alliance.

                The results of the 1955 elections were also an incentive for the Alliance to grant citizenship to non-Straits Settlement Chinese and Indians.

                1. re: “The results of the 1955 elections were also an incentive for the Alliance to grant citizenship to non-Straits Settlement Chinese and Indians.”

                  Please elaborate.

                  1. The results for the 1955 elections saw the Alliance winning almost every seat, save for one. That seat was won by the forerunner of PAS. Very few non Malays would vote for PAS at that time.

                    As for 1959, the largest opposition party was PAS. They managed to score 21% of the vote. That is certainly a very large share of the Malay electorate, and that does not include the Malays who voted for the other parties and independent candidates.

                    1. re: “The results for the 1955 elections saw the Alliance winning almost every seat, save for one. That seat was won by the forerunner of PAS. Very few non Malays would vote for PAS at that time.”

                      PAS won one seat out of 52 in a constituency where its major town is Parit Buntar. Today Mujahid Gereja is the MP for Parit Buntar, LOL.

                      Why don’t you talk about the 51 seats going to Umno (Alliance but basically Malay voter support)?

                      re: “As for 1959, the largest opposition party was PAS. They managed to score 21% of the vote. That is certainly a very large share of the Malay electorate …”

                      Nobody denies that the Malay vote is split and has always been split. It is the Chinese vote that is united.

                      In GE 2013, it’s estimated that 63-65% of the Malays voted for the BN. This means 6 Malays (or 6.5 Malays) out of 10 supported the establishment. If this trend continues and BN loses the Christian native votes, it’s not impossible for Umno to be dealt an Obama-tactic defeat.

                      That’s why Umno is lurching to the right and using Islam, as the recently concluded PAU has demonstrated.

                      Try to use your odikal and ponder on this:

                      PAS: Muslim, Malay language, Malay culture, sawo matang skin colour

                      Umno:
                      Muslim, Malay language (members derided for being unable to understand English), Malay culture (members derided for being “racists”), sawo matang skin colour (members derided for being “stupid” b’cos they live in kampung)

                      DAP 3.0: Christian, Chinese/English language, Chinese/mixed culture, banana skin colour

                      Do you think PAS has more in common with Umno or with DAP when push comes to shove, especially over Islam under threat?

                      How well do you think DAP speaks Malay when the Madam Speaker (who should know better given her job) does not even know the term ‘soalan lisan’ but says ‘soalan mulut’?

                      How many more politicians are the DAP able to encourage to wear tudung and songkok to vie for PAS’s affections when Umno politicians naturally wear tudung (e.g. current Ketua Puteri Umno) and songkok (see their official portraits)?

                      Do you think that blood is not thicker than water?

                      Throughout our history of elections, the Malay votes have been effectively split and even lost by Umno in 1999.

                      For the first time in the history of our elections, the biadab DAP 3.0 is going to achieve Malay unity in GE14/15 on behalf of Umno where even Umno itself has failed to do since 1955.

                      Congratulations to the DAP evangelistas – who are lebih Islam than Muslims and more knowledgeable in defining ‘Melayu’ than the Constitution – for their remarkable feat.

                    2. “That’s why Umno is lurching to the right and using Islam, as the recently concluded PAU has demonstrated.”

                      So it appears that UMNO’s reaction to being stuck in a hole is to dig even deeper. All the more to repulse whatever remaining Chinese and Indian support they have. The East Malaysians are even starting to get frustrated. Meanwhile, PAS is moving toward the center.

                      There is a split brewing in UMNO with Mahathir working to undermine and sabotage Najib, Khairy, and Badawi. Unlike the last time, he will not find it so easy now.

            2. AC-DC,

              The position of non Malays prior to independence is equivalent to position of Bangladeshis, Vietnamese, Indonesians in current national landscape(with due respect).

              Meaning they( non Malays) were not in position to bargain simply because they were than literally “pendatang”. They live here, work in Tanah Melayu but not citizens.

              There were some concern back than among malay community on massive citizenship granted to non Malays. Bear in mind that there are 2 main reasons why Malays were then dead set against Malayan Union.

              The first is the removal of Malay Sultans from officialdom, thus erasing the history of the land and changed the status of malay stares from mere protectorates to outright colonies

              THE SECOND IS JUS SOLI that practically in today’s language is making citizenship a piece of cake.

              MAlays protested and protested heavily forcing London to give way to Malay demands. Sovereignty of malay Sultans were restored, thus ensuring that Malays can call themselves “natives of the land” without being question as the symbol of their claim (Malay Sultans) are there for all to see.

              BUT THE SECOND part” just soli”, is more interesting. Malay sultans, UMNO agreed to it . BUT IT COMES WITH PACKAGE.

              The package comes in the form of specific mention of Malays in the Constitution. In more popular terminology , Article 153.

              As I said earlier, humble the Malays of yesteryears might have been but they were full of wisdom too. They kind of able to see the need of it one day. Hence the inclusion of some provisions specific to Malay interests.

              Such as position of Malay Language, Islam, Malay sultans and continuity of Malay regiment. And these provisions are beyond questioning in august Parliament. To remove the provision, consent of Malay rulers is required.

              THE MYTH

              The perception that citizenship must be granted to non Malays in order for British to grant independence.

              THE TRUTH

              The British is more concern on their interest after renouncing control on political landscape in Tanah Melayu. They were very concern on graceful exit . They were very particular about leaving with pomp and pageantry . And they insists on legitimate British and European community be respected in new nation.

              And British is very legalistic to the end. They could suggest but they could not insist on citizenship for non Malays.

              Why? Because they too knew non Malays were mere immigrants who are not in position to demand to be included on bargaining table . SIMPLY BECAUSE non malays were simply “pendatang” back then. The fact that some Chinese made fortune in Malay states is immaterial because their status is still “pendatang”. The fact that Chinese too contribute to the Tanah Melayu is immaterial as the status was still “pendatang”.

              The only party recognised to deal were then Malay Rulers. Only when Malay rulers agreed on path towards independence than the talk on independence would be meaningful.

              BUT WHY CITIZENSHIP GRANTED TO NON MALAYS

              Citizenship granted not by British . This massive citizenship exercise was made possible with Malay Rulers consent.

              And citizenship granted in scale unheard off( and still a record unbroken on this planet) is a manifestation of generosity of a race known as “melayu”.

              The beauty and inspiration of this “generosity” can be amply seen until today when MCA still can win in Malay majority areas or Malays have no objection to giant statues on Batu Caves. And it can be seen with Malays do not object vehemently to mind boggling situation where the number of shrines and temple exceeds mosques and suraus in a state where Malays is the biggest racial group.

              And the generosity can be seen where Singapore was allowed to be parted from Malaysia when any Prime Minister would simply sent troops to topple the belligerent state leaders(Remember acheh, Mindanao, Pattani, Chechya, Kashmir, Biaffra).

              BRUNEI

              Interesting fact that Chinese in Brunei are not citizens.

              But why Brunei was still granted independence.with chinese not accorded citizenship?

              BECAUSE the instrument of Independence was signed by the rightful “lord of Brunei”, the Sultan. And the Sultan decided he would not want to give citizenships to Chinese.

              Why no noise and no protest(by British)

              Because as the sultan, only His highness can decide. on citizenship.

              Why Sultan of Brunei refuses citizenship to Chinese? well. there is a saying “certain things are best left unsaid”.

              1. Re. “certain things are best left unsaid”.

                It is a common knowledge that the stateless Chinese of Brunei is the result of the Malaysian Chinese Behavior and Malaysia’s experience dealing with them.

                The Sultan of Brunei has a very closed and cordial relationship with Malaysian Royalties, I am pretty sure the words get around…..

              2. ACDC jangan jadi bangang, the pendatang granted citzenship jus soli bukan terdiri among orang kaya-kaya yang mungkin dah rasuah untuk lobi, tetapi juga coolie-coolie sahaya!

                Bila la kau nak pandai ACDC. Kau makan apa bangang sangat?

                ACDC kena belajar sedar diri. Patutla lansi, ODIKAL rupanya ACDC ni!

                1. Helo, bukan sahaja kuli, tapi juga jurutera, kakitangan awam, juruteknik, dan pelbagai profesional lagi.

                  Tanpa sumbangan mereka, Malaya akan manjadi sebuah negara kurang pembangunan. Takkan ada internet yang awak boleh guna untuk menghentam orang lain dan peragakan sikap bodoh sombong engkau.

                  1. AC-DC belajar sejarah di sekolah mana?

                    Adakah AC-DC telah diajar cikgu dulu bahawa penjajah British membawa masuk jurutera, juruteknik dan pelbagai profesional Cina dan India ke negeri-negeri Melayu dalam kurun ke-19 dan awal kurun ke-20 untuk menoreh getah dan melombong bijih timah?

                    1. Cik Helen jangan fikir hitam putih sahaja. Usah menuduh orang lain odikal semasa awak jelas mempamerkan perangai macam ini.

                      Orang Cina dan India yang menetap di Malaya dahulu ada yang buruh dan penoreh getah, tetapi ramai juga yang bekerja profesional atau teknikal atau seperti peguam, ahli perniagaan, doktor, jurutera, pemandu keretapi, guru, kakitangan awam, juruteknik dan selainnya.

                      Mahathir pun menyebut bilangan doktor dan profesional Melayu amat sedikit waktu zaman mudanya.

                    2. Okay, kita ikut saja logik Saudara AC-DC. Begini lah:

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah profesional ataupun jurutera/juru teknik. Mereka jemu dengan Tongsan dan lebih suka melanjutkan kerjaya profesional dan kejuruteraan mereka di negeri-negeri Melayu di mana ekonominya berasaskan pertanian (penanaman padi) dan tangkap ikan.

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah peguam yang membuka syarikat-syarikat guaman mereka di negeri-negeri Melayu di mana undang-undang ditadbir oleh pejabat kadi.

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah ahli perniagaan yang mahu berdagang, err benda apa?, di negeri-negeri Melayu.

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah doktor yang membuka klinik bagi menyumbang khidmat kepada pesakit-pesakit Melayu kerana para doktor itu bosan dengan karenah pesakit-pesakit di Tongsan ibu pertiwi.

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah guru yang mahu mengajar di sekolah vernakular.

                      Orang Cina yang datang ke Malaya pada penghujung kurun ke-19 adalah kakitangan awam.

                      Ini kerana orang Cina Tongsan pandai berbahasa Inggeris dan justeru itu, penjajah British menggalakkan orang Cina tersebut untuk berhijrah dari tempat asal mereka datang sini untuk mengisi kekosongan jawatan di pejabat-pejabat kerajaan dan daerah.

                      Begitu lah rentetan logik AC-DC.

                    3. “Okay, kita ikut saja logik Saudara AC-DC. Begini lah…

                      bleh… bleh… bleh… cot cet… cot cet…”

                      This is what I mean about you being unable to think beyond the simple-minded binary mentality of black or white, one or zero, Malay or Chinese, up or down. To you, its either they are all labourers or professional/technical. Never in between, or the fact that by the 1950s, many of them had been born in Malaya, quite a number of them studied in schools or universities and taken up professional and technical jobs.

                      Even Mahathir took pride of being one of the few Malay doctors, at a time when most of the non white doctors were Chinese or Indian.

                    4. re: “the fact that by the 1950s, many of them had been born in Malaya”

                      Since you want to claim fact, please show me your figures — how many, statistics please! non-Straits Settlement Chinese were born in Malaya?

                      (I make the distinction b’cos Penang and Malacca Chinese became Malaya citizens by operation of law since these two states do not have Sultan.)

                      Below I can show you the “one million” non-Malays given Merdeka citizenship through “application”, meaning not through jus soli.

                      re: “quite a number of them studied in schools or universities and taken up professional and technical jobs.”

                      At the time of Merdeka, we had only one uni (UM) and it was located in Singapore.

                      Can you give the figures that you cite when saying “quite a number of [the Chinese applying for Malayan citzenship] studied in … universities [and were not coolies]?

                    5. 1.0 History

                      1.1 First Wave
                      The first wave of Chinese settlers came during the Malacca Empire in the early 15th century. The friendly diplomatic relations between China and Melaka culminated during the reign of Sultan Mansur Syah who married Hang Li Pofrom China. A senior minister of state and five hundred youth of noble births and handmaidens in waiting accompanied the princess to Malacca. [3] The descendants of these people are called Baba (men) and Nyonya(women).

                      1.2 Second Wave

                      The second and much bigger wave of Chinese immigrants came during the 19th century and early 20th century as coolies. These immigrants were running away from China due to the fighting of the Opium War in 1840. Their immigration to Malaya was encouraged by the British who needed Chinese coolies to work on their rubber plantations and tin mines. The immigrants came as free labour or indentured labouron a credit ticket system. Free labour meant they financed their own journey with savings or loans from their kinsman. These groups of early Chinese coolies are not surprisingly the most exploited by their employers. They worked long hours to pay off the high interest rates on credit ticket system.[4]

                      http://www.huaren.org/chinese-communities/malaysia

                    6. “Since you want to claim fact, please show me your figures — how many, statistics please! non-Straits Settlement Chinese were born in Malaya?”

                      Somebody has pointed out that the immigration of Chinese occured in the 19th and EARLY 20th centuries. There was only a small trickle after the early 20th century.

                      From that period to the 1950s, is obviously a span of several generations. I believe you are sufficiently intelligent to know that their children and subsequent descendants would be born in Malaya.

                      Surely not all of the later generations will be working the tin mines as their forefathers did. You can ask your friends what their grandfather’s occupation were in the 1950s. You will find several who were working in a technical related area.

                      “re: “quite a number of them studied in schools or universities and taken up professional and technical jobs.”
                      At the time of Merdeka, we had only one uni (UM) and it was located in Singapore.”

                      So, how do you account for the Chinese and Indians working in various professional and technical fields, such as the medicine which Tun Mahathir himself has acknowledged that there were few Malay doctors?

                    7. Hullo, saying “Somebody has pointed out” is not providing the figures nor the stats.

                      That’s the problem with you Dapsters. Not capable of arguing on facts.

                      Who said “there was only a small trickle after the early 20th century” and at what year do you peg your “early 20th century”?

                      Please lah don’t goreng by asking your friend’s grandfathers, ok.

                      In 1871, Penang, Malacca and Singapore had 104,615 Chinese. In 1881, Penang, Malacca and Singapore had 173,861 Chinese.

                      The above are census figures, ok.

                      By 1901, the Chinese constituted 65 percent of the population of Selangor and 46 percent in Perak. — (W.L.Blythe, Historical Sketch of Chinese Labour in Malaya, Royal Asiatic Society, Malayan branch, Vol.XX, part 1, June 1947) … This is the turn of the century — 1900 where you put your full-stop.

                      However, more Chinese came and kept coming AFTER the turn of the century.

                      In 1911, the Settlements plus other states had 874,200 Chinese.

                      In 1921, it became 1,221,138.

                      In 1931, it became 1,708,966. These are majority immigrants, ok. Not natural birth b’cos there was a shortage of Chinese women. Most of the coolies were men.

                      The immigration only slowed down after the outbreak of WWII in China and Europe (Britain affected).

                    8. “Since you want to claim fact, please show me your figures — how many, statistics please! non-Straits Settlement Chinese were born in Malaya?”

                      By 1947, 21% of the Malayan population was foreign-born. That is already less than half the number of non Malays in Malaya at that time.

                      Statistics from: “Malaysia/Singapore as Immigrant Societies”; Reid, A. Australian National University.

                      “The immigration only slowed down after the outbreak of WWII in China and Europe (Britain affected).”

                      Immigration to Malaya was slowed down in 1930 during the Depression. There would be not enough jobs so a limit was set in place.

                      I agree that immigration was the main source of the population boom in the 19th and early 20th century. However, there certainly were Chinese and Indian women present in Malaya, which would be potential partners to start families. By 1911, the ratio of women to men for Chinese were one to four, and around one to three for ethnic Indians.

                      Statistics from: “Census of Straits Settlements, Federated
                      Malay States, and Other Malay States, 1911 to 1931”;

                      There was indeed a gender disparity. Still, a one to four ratio will give us around 175,000 women in 1911, using your statistics of 874,200 Chinese in Malaya at that period. By the 1920s, there would already have been a sizeable young generation of Malayan-born Indians and Chinese.

                      As for occupational breakdown, we can look at some statistics gathered by C.A. Vlieland in 1931 in the Census.

                      The majority of Indians and Chinese were in agriculture (mostly rubber)… 58% and 40% respectively. Around 11% of Chinese workforce were in the mining industry.

                      Now, here comes the interesting part…

                      Transportation & Communication:
                      Percentage of Chinese in sector: ~4%
                      Percentage of Indians in sector: ~6%

                      Commerce & Finance:
                      Chinese: ~13%
                      Indian: ~6%

                      Professional
                      Chinese: ~1%
                      Indian: ~1%

                      While most of the Chinese and Indians were labourers, there were sizeable percentages in non-manual labour related occupations.

                    9. The statistics support what I say, not what you say.

                      See… when you actually get down to digging real facts and figures, then you will find that the data contradicts the Dapster dongeng.

                      (A) Let’s recap what you’ve now found out (year 1931):

                      (1) Most of the Chinese were labourers because Malaya was an agrarian and resource extraction-based economy where the proportion of manual labour occupations would be high

                      (2) Professional Chinese ~ one percent

                      (3) Chinese in “Transportation & Communication sector” ~ four percent

                      (4) Chinese in [tin] mining ~ 11 percent

                      (5) Chinese in Commerce & Finance ~ 13 percent [how many were Ah Long!]

                      (6) Chinese in rubber industry ~ 40 percent

                      (B) The gender ratio was one Chinese woman to four Chinese men.

                      re: “… ratio will give us around 175,000 women in 1911, using your statistics of 874,200 Chinese in Malaya at that period. By the 1920s, there would already have been a sizeable young generation of Malayan-born Indians and Chinese.”

                      The Chinese women would be those in Malacca and Penang. The labourers who came to work in the tin mines in Selangor and Perak would be men.

                      We were talking about whether the Chinese supported the Alliance or the opposition in the 1955 election. The ones in Penang and Malacca supported the Alliance. The first Chief Minister of Penang was MCA and the first governor of Malacca was a Chinese.

                      I said that in 1955, there was only one Chinese out of every 10 registered voters because the Chinese did not have citizenship and thus could not vote.

                      You said the Chinese supported the Alliance in 1955. I said that there was already strong Chinese support for the opposition then but this was not seen in the 1955 election results because the one million Chinese [and Indians] only got their citizenship and thus voting rights in 1958 mostly.

                      re: “By 1947, 21% of the Malayan population was foreign-born. That is already less than half the number of non Malays in Malaya at that time.”

                      Okay, just for general clarification — 21% of the foreign-born Malayan population refers to all races including Malay.

                      re: “Chinese and Indian women present in Malaya, which would be potential partners to start families”

                      If a Chinese kid was born in 1947, he would be 8 years old in 1955 and not old enough to vote. If a Chinese kid was born in 1940, he would be 15 years old in 1955 and not old enough to vote.

                      You say that “already less than half the number of non Malays in Malaya” in 1947 were born [in China or India].

                      They would be the ones who got their one-million man citizenship between 1957 and 1959. They did not vote in 1955.

                      In 1955, it was the Malay voters who put the Alliance in power.

                    10. I would like to add, this was in an agrarian and resource extraction based economy. The proportion of non manual labour occupations would be lower than what we would have a typical industrialised economy. The white men also held a number of non manual labour jobs, especially professional vocations, leaving some for the Chinese and Indians, and even less for the Malays.

                    11. “The statistics support what I say, not what you say.
                      See… when you actually get down to digging real facts and figures, then you will find that the data contradicts the Dapster dongeng.”

                      On the contrary, it actually proves what I said is correct: Not all the Chinese and Indians in Malaya were in the agricultural or mining sector and there were considerable numbers in the other sectors.

                      The total percentage of the Chinese workforce in the agricultural and mining sector was 50%. In financial, professional, transport, and communication, the total is 18%.

                      For manufacturing and production, the percentage of Chinese workforce in that sector is 10%.

                      Altogether, this totals 28% in manufacturing, transportation, communication, professional, and finance sectors. The percentage of Malay’s in these sectors were comparatively lower.

                      As I mentioned earlier, this was in 1930s Malaya where the economy was focused on resource extraction and agriculture. The British would hold most of the upper level occupations.

                      “The Chinese women would be those in Malacca and Penang. The labourers who came to work in the tin mines in Selangor and Perak would be men.”

                      Can we see some statistics for your assertion?

                      Institute of Southeast Asian
                      Studies Research Notes and Discussion Papers No. 59. Lai, 1986

                      In 1901, Chinese women were 16% of the tin mining workforce
                      In 1931, this was already 36%

                      Certainly not fully men. Between those periods and before, a considerable number of these women would have settled down and started families. This is just the tin mining sector, and I have not yet mentioned the agricultural and plantations field…

                      “We were talking about whether the Chinese supported the Alliance or the opposition in the 1955 election. The ones in Penang and Malacca supported the Alliance. The first Chief Minister of Penang was MCA and the first governor of Malacca was a Chinese.
                      I said that in 1955, there was only one Chinese out of every 10 registered voters because the Chinese did not have citizenship and thus could not vote.
                      You said the Chinese supported the Alliance in 1955. I said that there was already strong Chinese support for the opposition then but this was not seen in the 1955 election results because the one million Chinese [and Indians] only got their citizenship and thus voting rights in 1958 mostly.”

                      Most of those eligible Chinese voters in 1955 will be in the Straits Settlements. Few in the other states would be citizens at that time. And you mentioned that the Chinese in Penang and Malacca supported the Alliance.

                      Hence, my statement that it was the Chinese and also Indians who helped the Alliance win all but one seat is correct. They certainly helped in Penang and Malacca.

                      To you, ten percent is insignificant. That was also Selangor Barisan Nasional’s attitude towards the Indian community in early 2008. We saw how that turned out.

                      In 1959, it was PAS who actually got the majority of Opposition seats. Of course, in 1964, the voting trend had started to swing the other way for the Chinese.

                      “Okay, just for general clarification — 21% of the foreign-born Malayan population refers to all races including Malay.
                      If a Chinese kid was born in 1947, he would be 8 years old in 1955 and not old enough to vote. If a Chinese kid was born in 1940, he would be 15 years old in 1955 and not old enough to vote.”

                      I hope you are not implying that the first person of Chinese ethnicity born in Malaya was in 1940. Again, I have pointed out that there were significant numbers of Chinese females in Malaya by 1911. Despite the gender disparity, there would be enough to have a generation of Malayan-born Chinese at this time.

                      “You say that “already less than half the number of non Malays in Malaya” in 1947 were born [in China or India].
                      They would be the ones who got their one-million man citizenship between 1957 and 1959. They did not vote in 1955.
                      In 1955, it was the Malay voters who put the Alliance in power.”

                      And the Chinese voters in 1955 would be mainly in Penang and Malacca, due to the citizenship laws. All seats in these states, including the urban regions, went to the Alliance.

                      In 1959, Malay voters would make PAS the largest opposition party in Parliament.

                    12. re: “In 1959, Malay voters would make PAS the largest opposition party in Parliament.”

                      I’ve never had any issues with the strong support that PAS has received from the Malays right from Day 1 and that it has always been a strong oppo party.

                      In fact the very strength of PAS in 1959 indicates how race-based politics and gives the lie to the SABMer fairy tale that Tunku was colour blind (or in other words, they believe before Dr M stepped into the scene, there was no racial polarization).

                      PAS’s strength was in the Malay heartland where the party told its supporters that Umno was kafir for deigning to work with the infidel MCA and MIC. I can see now why Umno supporters feel so betrayed by the Chinese tsunami that brought PAS its new (never won before) seats in the mixed constituencies (of up to 30% Chinese).

                      re: “On the contrary, it actually proves what I said is correct: Not all the Chinese and Indians in Malaya were in the agricultural or mining sector and there were considerable numbers in the other sectors.”

                      Like a typical Dapster, you’re putar-beliting. When did I ever say that ALL 100 percent of the Chinese in Malaya were coolies? Our focus was on the “one million” Merdeka citizenships granted in 1957-1960, remember?

                      To recap: You said that your Indian friends received S’pore PR because they’re professionals in the IT & financial sectors. We agreed that highly qualified people, or those with capital would generally be accepted as welcome immigrants by host countries.

                      Then we turned to the question of the Malay Sultans agreeing to accept the one million Chinese [and Indian] applicants for Merdeka citizenship and whether they could be considered as professionals, highly qualified, or people with capital (money).

                      My contention was that the Chinese in 1958 who got their citizenship would not have qualified under the Educated/Moneyed criteria under which your Indian friends got their Singapore PR.

                      Your counter contention was [quote] “Orang Cina dan India yang menetap di Malaya dahulu ada yang buruh dan penoreh getah, tetapi ramai juga yang bekerja profesional atau teknikal atau seperti peguam, ahli perniagaan, doktor, jurutera, pemandu keretapi, guru, kakitangan awam, juruteknik dan selainnya“.

                      You said many were lawyers, doctors, engineers, technicians, businessmen, teachers, civil servants …

                      So, can I ask you again — How many of the Chinese (not from Penang & Malacca) who got their citizenship through ‘Application’ were lawyers, doctors, engineers, technicians, businessmen, teachers, civil servants? You said “MANY” (“ramai juga”).

                      re: “In financial, professional, transport, and communication, the total is 18%.”

                      Can you specify what is meant by ‘communication’ (I’m curious, surely not Astro or ad agencies), by ‘transport’ and by ‘financial’? Can you also breakdown which states these Chinese professionals were in?

                      Please bear in mind that I had specifically excluded Penang and Malacca b’cos as I had explained previously, these 2 states did not have any Sultans to grant the citizenships and as Straits Settlement residents, the Penang & Malacca Chinese got their citizenship by operation of law (not application).

                      Therefore, if your Chinese professionals were located in Penang and Malacca, it does not bolster your argument any. Only if your “many” Chinese professionals were located in Perak or Selangor, then would they count towards balancing the tin miners and rubber tappers.

                      re: “For manufacturing and production, the percentage of Chinese workforce in that sector is 10%.”

                      Please specify what they manufactured and produced.

                      re: “Altogether, this totals 28% in manufacturing, transportation, communication, professional, and finance sectors. The percentage of Malay’s in these sectors were comparatively lower.”

                      As I’ve said earlier, pls specify what is the communication sector.

                      re: “In 1901, Chinese women were 16% of the tin mining workforce”

                      Alright. Stats accepted. But that still skews the ratio of 1-1/2 women to 8-1/2 men in tin mining at the turn of the century.

                      re: “Certainly not fully men.”

                      Where got any sector fully men? Even when Dr M was studying medicine, there was Siti Hasmah.

                      re: “This is just the tin mining sector, and I have not yet mentioned the agricultural and plantations field…”

                      Why not, go ahead and mention lah. See if the ratio can be any better.

                      re: “Hence, my statement that it was the Chinese and also Indians who helped the Alliance win all but one seat is correct. They certainly helped in Penang and Malacca.”

                      You said: “The results of the 1955 elections were also an incentive for the Alliance to grant citizenship to non-Straits Settlement Chinese and Indians.”

                      Yes, they helped in Penang and Malacca. How much did they help in the other states? My interest is how much support did the Chinese give the MCA (Alliance) and how many did not support the MCA.

                      To repeat: My contention is that the opposition (pre DAP, it was the labour, socialist parties as well as Gerakan-oppo) has always received strong support from the Chinese voters, same as our agreed view that PAS has always received strong support from the Malay voters.

                      My second contention: This Chinese support for the oppo may not have been fully reflected in the 1955 election simply b’cos at that time the majority of the Chinese, although inhabitants, did not have the right to vote.

                      My third contention: MCA was founded by the Malacca Baba Tan Cheng Lock, who received the title ‘Sir’ from the British monarch. He was an elite, like his Umno colleagues. MCA was a party funded by taukes. They did not receive as strong a level of support from the Chinese proletariat as the Alliance dominance indicates. In fact, the 1955 election showed the same trend that MCA got their seats on Malay votes.

                      re: “To you, ten percent is insignificant. That was also Selangor Barisan Nasional’s attitude towards the Indian community in early 2008. We saw how that turned out.”

                      Okay, fair enough. But Alliance winning 51 seat out of 52 was a whitewash. Even if the Chinese voters were zero percent, Alliance would have won comfortably.

                      Whereas the BN lost their popular vote in 2013 and in the peninsula. And only beat Pakatan by a small margin for the Parliament seats (it was Sabah & S’wak that saved the day). Since the BN could well have lost the elections both times in the peninsula, then the 10 percent Indian electorate carried more weight in 2008 & 2013 then did the 10 percent Chinese electorate in 1955.

                      In 1959, it was PAS who actually got the majority of Opposition seats. Of course, in 1964, the voting trend had started to swing the other way for the Chinese.

                      re: “I hope you are not implying that the first person of Chinese ethnicity born in Malaya was in 1940.”

                      Don’t be facetious.

                      re: “Again, I have pointed out that there were significant numbers of Chinese females in Malaya by 1911. Despite the gender disparity, there would be enough to have a generation of Malayan-born Chinese at this time.”

                      If they were born in 1911, yes, they’d be old enough to vote in 1955. But they did not have citizenship. Only Malays were subjects of the Malay rulers. Chinese were not subjects of the Malay rulers unless they had previously applied in 1946 (which they did not) or in 1948.

                      re: “And the Chinese voters in 1955 would be mainly in Penang and Malacca, due to the citizenship laws. All seats in these states, including the urban regions, went to the Alliance.”

                      Yes, every seat except Krian went to the Alliance in 1955. This indicated that the Chinese supported race-based politics because the Alliance practised the precise communal formula of Umno for Malays, MCA of Chinese and MIC for Indians.

                      Dato’ Onn Jaafar did not receive support for his multiracial party and IMP died before 1955. Dato’ Onn wanted to open up Umno to Malayans but his idea was rejected.

                      Tunku Abdul Rahman still maintained Umno as the United ‘Malay’ National Organization after Dato’ Onn’s departure the party. This proves that Tunku supported race-based politics.

                      The Alliance (Umno-Malay. MCA-Chinese, MIC-Indian) was the ruling party throughout Tunku’s premiership. This proves that Tunku was the Father of Race-Based Politics.

                      Yet the Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia gang hold up Tunku as their icon of colour-blind racial harmony. What odikals!

                    13. “I’ve never had any issues with the strong support that PAS has received from the Malays right from Day 1 and that it has always been a strong oppo party.”

                      Therein lies your double standards. Malays voting for PAS is no issue, but some Chinese who voted for Gerakan, PPP or the Socialist parties is an issue, despite the fact that PAS was the largest opposition party in the 1959 elections.

                      “In fact the very strength of PAS in 1959 indicates how race-based politics and gives the lie to the SABMer fairy tale that Tunku was colour blind (or in other words, they believe before Dr M stepped into the scene, there was no racial polarization).
                      PAS’s strength was in the Malay heartland where the party told its supporters that Umno was kafir for deigning to work with the infidel MCA and MIC. I can see now why Umno supporters feel so betrayed by the Chinese tsunami that brought PAS its new (never won before) seats in the mixed constituencies (of up to 30% Chinese).”

                      UMNO under the leadership of Tunku was different than the UMNO today. Keep that in mind. Tunku had conflicts with the UMNO baru till the end.

                      Compared to the ‘ultra’ stance of Mahathir, he certainly was a moderate.

                      “Like a typical Dapster, you’re putar-beliting. When did I ever say that ALL 100 percent of the Chinese in Malaya were coolies? Our focus was on the “one million” Merdeka citizenships granted in 1957-1960, remember?”

                      To stay more in context, I was responding to another comment who claimed that the Chinese and Indians ‘granted citzenship jus soli bukan terdiri among orang kaya-kaya yang mungkin dah rasuah untuk lobi, tetapi juga coolie-coolie sahaya!‘.

                      I presented facts showing that not all Chinese and Indians in Malaya were in manual labour, demolishing his bullcrap. It is you who is trying to putar-belit facts and making sweeping statements to support you and your friend’s house of cards.

                      “You said that your Indian friends received S’pore PR because they’re professionals in the IT & financial sectors. We agreed that highly q…”

                      Are you actually comparing the immigration policy of 2010 of a highly developed small island nation of no natural resources and high tech economy, with the immigration policy of the 1950s of an low-industrial, agrarian and resource-extraction based nation?

                      “Your counter contention was [quote] “Orang Cina dan India yang menetap di Malaya dahulu ada yang buruh dan penoreh getah, tetapi ramai juga yang bekerja profesional atau teknikal atau seperti peguam, ahli perniagaan, doktor, jurutera, pemandu keretapi, guru, kakitangan awam, juruteknik dan selainnya“
                      You said many were lawyers, doctors, engineers, technicians, businessmen, teachers, civil servants …”

                      And there certainly were those who were in those technical fields. At least 28% of the Chinese workforce, in 1931 where Malaya was not an industrialising nation.

                      “So, can I ask you again — How many of the Chinese (not from Penang & Malacca) who got their citizenship through ‘Application’ were lawyers, doctors, engineers, technicians, businessmen, teachers, civil servants? You said “MANY” (“ramai juga”).
                      re: “In financial, professional, transport, and communication, the total is 18%.”
                      Can you specify what is meant by ‘communication’ (I’m curious, surely not Astro or ad agencies), by ‘transport’ and by ‘financial’? Can y…”

                      Professional AND technical fields. I do not have the data limited to only the non-Straits Settlements states. But do YOU have any data backing that the non Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners?

                      Ask you a few questions. Time period, around early 1950s:

                      Who would be the mechanics in the Chinese lorry and bus companies in Selangor? Certainly not Europeans.
                      Who would be the teachers for the Chinese and Indian students in Perak?
                      Who would be the technicians and engineers to help maintain and repair those dredging ships in the Kinta Valley, or the machinery in a Chinese-owned factory? Not all were Europeans.
                      Who would be the plumbers, electricians, carpenters, welders, photographers, telegraph operators, in the cities of Ipoh, Kuala Lumpur, Kuantan, and Seremban?
                      Who would staff those Chinese bank branches in Batu Pahat, Ipoh, Seremban, and other towns and cities?
                      Who would run those businesses that import goods from India in Kelang?
                      Who would be train engineers, officers, stokers, switchmen, train conductors of the Federated Malay States Railway?

                      “Where got any sector fully men? Even when Dr M was studying medicine, there was Siti Hasmah.
                      re: “This is just the tin mining sector, and I have not yet mentioned the agricultural and plantations field…”
                      Why not, go ahead and mention lah. See if the ratio can be any better.”

                      My statistics of women in the tin mining sector already demolishes your stated presumption that Chinese women would be in Malacca and Penang while the labourers at the mines would be men. You yourself said it earlier. Do not try to ‘putar-belit’ your statements.

                      “Yes, every seat except Krian went to the Alliance in 1955. This indicated that the Chinese supported race-based politics because the Alliance practised the precise communal formula of Umno for Malays, MCA of Chinese and MIC for Indians.
                      Dato’ Onn Jaafar did not receive support for his multiracial party and IMP died before 1955. Dato’ Onn wanted to open up Umno to Malayans but his idea was rejected.”

                      Aha, now you are accusing them of supporting race-based politics if they vote Alliance, and finding it an issue when they vote otherwise. Meanwhile, Malay voters who went for PAS or UMNO, you have no issue. Heads you win, tails they lose. No wonder your logical reasoning is so warped. Like they say… moving the goalposts.

                      Do not be an odikal while you accuse others.

                    14. re: “Therein lies your double standards. Malays voting for PAS is no issue, but some Chinese who voted for Gerakan, PPP or the Socialist parties is an issue, despite the fact that PAS was the largest opposition party in the 1959 elections.”

                      If I were Conrad, I would say that you’re being “nonsensical”, and if I were HH, I’d say that you’re being “absurd”. When have I ever indicated that I have anything against socialists? In fact, I’ve been very positive wrt PSM in my blog. And get your facts straight. There was no Gerakan (yet) in 1959.

                      re: “Compared to the ‘ultra’ stance of Mahathir, he certainly was a moderate.”

                      One can understand why Dr M was ultra. He was confronted by the Dapster prototype of May 1969.

                      re: “To stay more in context, I was responding to another comment who claimed that the Chinese and Indians ‘granted citzenship jus soli bukan terdiri among orang kaya-kaya yang mungkin dah rasuah untuk lobi, tetapi juga coolie-coolie sahaya!’.”

                      Isn’t it putar-belit to respond to a 3rd party in our two-way discussion and hold me responsible for his contents (since you made no mention prior to this of that particular individual)?

                      re: “I presented facts showing that not all Chinese and Indians in Malaya were in manual labour, demolishing his bullcrap. It is you who is trying to putar-belit facts and making sweeping statements to support you and your friend’s house of cards.”

                      On the contrary, you made sweeping statements that

                      [quote] “Orang Cina dan India yang menetap di Malaya dahulu ada yang buruh dan penoreh getah, tetapi ramai juga yang bekerja profesional atau teknikal atau seperti peguam, ahli perniagaan, doktor, jurutera, pemandu keretapi, guru, kakitangan awam, juruteknik dan selainnya“.

                      re: “Are you actually comparing the immigration policy of 2010 of a highly developed small island nation of no natural resources and high tech economy, with the immigration policy of the 1950s of an low-industrial, agrarian and resource-extraction based nation?”

                      If it makes you any happier, we can compare the immigration policy of 2010 of a highly developed small nation called Brunei. So why didn’t the Sultan of Brunei freely give his Chinese residents citizenship? Don’t tell me his Chinese were uneducated and poor?

                      re: “But do YOU have any data backing that the non Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners?”

                      I have never claimed that [all] non-Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners. However, if you want data on the size of the labour force in the rubber and tin mining industries, of course there are, e.g. In 1922, the European estates were 1,230,000 acres with almost 80 percent of the workforce imported from India. In 1928, the labour force engaged in tin mining was 119,550. That’s a lot of people.

                      re: “Who would be train engineers, officers, stokers, switchmen, train conductors of the Federated Malay States Railway?”

                      Indians, and they’re still facing the problem of statelessness. Haven’t you been listening to your PKR and DAP Indian politicians on this?

                      re: “My statistics of women in the tin mining sector already demolishes your stated presumption that Chinese women would be in Malacca and Penang while the labourers at the mines would be men. You yourself said it earlier. Do not try to ‘putar-belit’ your statements.”

                      How can you “demolish” a stated presumption? What’s there to demolish when you yourself set up a presumption saying that I assumed? Hullo, you’re saying that I claim only Malacca and Penang had Chinese women, duh. I said the immigrant labour brought in as tin miners were men. This is true, given the 1.5 women to 8.5 men ratio that you provided.

                      re: “Aha, now you are accusing them of supporting race-based politics if they vote Alliance, and finding it an issue when they vote otherwise.”

                      Look, the Dapsters are saying that Umno is “racist” because it is a uniracial party (there are Christian bumiputera, Siamese others but still it’s fair to call it a Malay perty). If they support Tunku Abdul Rahman as their icon, then they support race-based politics lah.

                      If they (Chinese in the early 1950s) had rejected race-based politics, they would have supported Dato’ Onn’s Independence of Malaya Party (IMP).

                      re: “Meanwhile, Malay voters who went for PAS or UMNO, you have no issue. Heads you win, tails they lose. No wonder your logical reasoning is so warped. Like they say… moving the goalposts. Do not be an odikal while you accuse others.”

                      Mirror, mirror …

                    15. “If I were Conrad, I would say that you’re being “nonsensical”, and if I were HH, I’d say that you’re being “absurd”. When have I ever indicated that I have anything against socialists? In fact, I’ve been very positive wrt PSM in my blog. And get your facts straight. There was no Gerakan (yet) in 1959.”

                      I just read some recent articles and it appears that you have come to verbal sparring with Conrad and HH. I am not surprised.

                      I stand corrected on Gerakan in 1959, and know that you have made positive mention of PSM. However, it is ahem… disingenuous to claim the non Malays were against the Alliance, then switch to claiming they support racial politics when proven otherwise.

                      “One can understand why Dr M was ultra. He was confronted by the Dapster prototype of May 1969.”

                      Mahathir lost his seat in Kota Setar Selatan during the 1969 elections. The district had a 80% Malay voter demographic. Yet, he blamed the minority Chinese, who were less than 20%. Mahathir has always needed a scapegoat, and the Chinese, The West, Anwar, and the past deputy prime ministers had made perfect candidates.

                      “Isn’t it putar-belit to respond to a 3rd party in our two-way discussion and hold me responsible for his contents (since you made no mention prior to this of that particular individual)?”

                      Well, you dropped into the dialogue and asked ‘what school I studied in’ and if I was taught that the British brought in professionals to tap rubber and mine for tin. Remember?

                      “On the contrary, you made sweeping statements that
                      [quote] “Orang Cina dan India yang menetap di Malaya dahulu ada yang buruh dan penoreh getah, tetapi ramai juga yang bekerja profesional atau teknikal atau seperti peguam, ahli perniagaan, doktor, jurutera, pemandu keretapi, guru, kakitangan awam, juruteknik dan selainnya“.”

                      Well, there were quite a lot in those sectors also, as shown. Certainly not overwhelmingly, but significant, and more than the Malay workforce.

                      “If it makes you any happier, we can compare the immigration policy of 2010 of a highly developed small nation called Brunei. So why didn’t the Sultan of Brunei freely give his Chinese residents citizenship? Don’t tell me his Chinese were uneducated and poor?”

                      Brunei has oil and gas reserves, which comprises 97% of the economy. Singapore does not. Singapore also has a more liberal immigration policy than Brunei. Of course, when Brunei’s oil runs out…

                      “I have never claimed that [all] non-Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners. However, if you want data on the size of the labour force in the rubber and tin mining industries, of course there are, e.g. In 1922, the European estates were 1,230,000 acres with almost 80 percent of the workforce imported from India. In 1928, the labour force engaged in tin mining was 119,550. That’s a lot of people.”

                      Fine if you were not claiming that ‘all non-Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners’. But you were certainly trying to rubbish the fact that there were many non Malays in the sectors not related to manual labour…

                      “re: “Who would be train engineers, officers, stokers, switchmen, train conductors of the Federated Malay States Railway?”
                      Indians, and they’re still facing the problem of statelessness. Haven’t you been listening to your PKR and DAP Indian politicians on this?”

                      See, not all coolies. And that is just one company.

                      “How can you “demolish” a stated presumption? What’s there to demolish when you yourself set up a presumption saying that I assumed? Hullo, you’re saying that I claim only Malacca and Penang had Chinese women, duh. I said the immigrant labour brought in as tin miners were men. This is true, given the 1.5 women to 8.5 men ratio that you provided.”

                      Your words: ‘The Chinese women would be those in Malacca and Penang. The labourers who came to work in the tin mines in Selangor and Perak would be men.’

                      I posted the facts from Lai, 1986 that disproved this. Gender imbalance, yes, but hardly an absence of Chinese women as claimed to be.

                2. panjang betul perbahasan yang saya baca…. last-last saya terpaksa gelak kerana ACDC ni tak faham sejarah. setiap nukilan beliau adalah andaian yang sama-sama dikongsi oleh puak evangelista DAP yang sering saya dengar….. kononnya sejarah kita tak betul…… kesiannya…

                  1. Saya gelak kerana si Alwie ini fikir dia yang faham sejarah. Sementara di Kedah pula, tinggalan Lembah Bujang cuba dipadamkan. Mungkin digantikan pula dengan cerita karut Konspirasi Nam Tien.

                  2. “A senior minister of state and five hundred youth of noble births and handmaidens in waiting accompanied the princess to Malacca. [3] The descendants of these people are called Baba (men) and Nyonya(women).”

                    But to people like HY who have no royal blood think that we Baba and Nyonya are not Chinese. You must speak Mandarin (our mother tongue) to be Chinese and we all eat Bananas.

                    1. Is there any connection between the very old Malacca Babas and the Penang old Chinese who are famous for their Nyonya cuisine?

                    2. The old Penang Chinese may also have Siamese influence. Yes. There are some connection, there are some perpindahan as there were no Chinese around until……… “these people” came ….!

                      Aiyo.

              3. “The British is more concern on their interest after renouncing control on political landscape in Tanah Melayu. They were very concern on graceful exit . They were very particular about leaving with pomp and pageantry . And they insists on legitimate British and European community be respected in new nation.”

                This is why they supported the more British-friendly Alliance, which consisted of UMNO, MCA, and MIC, as the political entity to head the government of Malaya. They were not too keen on the alternative; the leftist independence movement.

                The Rulers were also not too keen on the leftist independence movement. It would have been a threat to their power. Hence their support towards the Alliance.

                And in the first Malayan elections, it was the Chinese and Indians that helped to seal the supermajority of the Alliance. The only opposition seat was held by the forerunner of PAS.

                “And the generosity can be seen where Singapore was allowed to be parted from Malaysia when any Prime Minister would simply sent troops to topple the belligerent state leaders(Remember acheh, Mindanao, Pattani, Chechya, Kashmir, Biaffra).”

                Singapore would not join the Union with Malaya in the first place if we did not have that citizenship policy. It would have remained a British Colony, or an independent country from the start. Therefore, a civil war over seperation would have been out of the question. Recall the fact that Singapore did not choose to secede. It was expelled. Ditto with Penang, Melaka, Sabah and Sarawak.

                As for Brunei, its economic prosperity is due to the oil and gas reserves it possesses.

                1. re: “And in the first Malayan elections, it was the Chinese and Indians that helped to seal the supermajority of the Alliance. The only opposition seat was held by the forerunner of PAS.”

                  You are truly ODIKAL.

                  Chinese who qualified as registered voters in 1955 (pre-Independence) was – I REPEAT – only 11.2 percent of the total electorate. Indians were 3.9 percent.

                  If half of those Chinese (5.6%) and Indians (2%) voted the Alliance, the non-Malay votes for Tunku’s party would still have been only 9 percent of the electorate.

                  The only reason that the Alliance (BN) was able to obtain a supermajority in 1955, and subsequently never again in any of the following elections is because 1955 was the only election in Malaysian history where the Chinese voting strength is less than their actual numbers.

                  In Penang 2013 for example, the Chinese comprise 45.6% of the population and 53.4% of the voters. In KL, the Chinese are 43.2% of the population and 52.2% of the voters.

                  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_general_election,_1959

                    I repeat: As for 1959, the largest opposition party was PAS. They managed to score 21% of the vote. That is certainly a very large share of the Malay electorate, and that does not include the Malays who voted for the other parties and independent candidates.

                    “If half of those Chinese (5.6%) and Indians (2%) voted the Alliance, the non-Malay votes for Tunku’s party would still have been only 9 percent of the electorate.”

                    Given how the non Malay citizens at that time were concentrated in urban areas, we would have seen at least one seat going to a non Alliance party. The reality? The sole opposition representative was from the Islamist PAS.

                    1. So what’s your point?

                      Fact: In 1955, only one out of the 10 registered voters was Chinese. How to win even urban seat with 1/10 electoral strength? The DAP traditional strongholds are 7-8 Chinese out of every 10 voters.

                      Nobody disputes that PAS has always had Melayu totok support. Even in GE13, Umno only had 6 out of 10 Malay votes.

                      In fact, that’s exactly what all this talk by Umno wrt “Malay unity” is all about. Umno sendiri dah mengaku bahawa sokongan Melayu mereka tidak cukup mantap.

                      Nobody’s arguing with you about PAS’s influence. It is precisely the reason why Umno is going all out to woo PAS.

                    2. “So what’s your point?
                      Fact: In 1955, only one out of the 10 registered voters was Chinese. How to win even urban seat with 1/10 electoral strength? The DAP traditional strongholds are 7-8 Chinese out of every 10 voters.”

                      Would every urban seat have only 1 out of 10 voters being Chinese? Recall that urban areas were mostly Chinese, especially in the Straits Settlements. The proportion would be higher, and more likely to tip the scales.

                      The fact is that only PAS managed to bag the sole opposition seat shows the non Malay voters had mostly supported the Alliance back then.

                    3. (1) Because it was year 1955 before Merdeka and before the “one million” citizenships were granted, mostly in 1958.

                      (2) Why did the Straits Settlements urban seats still go the Alliance? B’cos MCA was founded by a Malacca Baba Tan Cheng Lock. B’cos the first Penang Chief Minister was an MCA guy Wong Pow Nee. Even Dr Lim Chong Eu was an ex-MCA president.

                      (3) re: “The fact is that only PAS managed to bag the sole opposition seat shows the non Malay voters had mostly supported the Alliance back then.”

                      The Chinese were one out of 10 in 1955. Even if half the Chinese supported Alliance in 1955, that makes half a Chinese voter out of every 10 who supported Alliance.

                      There were 143,000 registered Chinese voters in 1957. There were a million Chinese who were in Malaya at that time who were not citizens and ineligible to vote.

                      You cannot claim that the Chinese mostly supported the Alliance. That’s inaccurate.

                      Rejection of the Alliance by the Chinese is shown by the May 1969 election results. The socialist oppo won Perak, Gerakan won Penang and DAP was the single party with the most seats in Selangor although not enough for it to form the government with a simple majority.

                    4. ACDC makhluk Dapster yang TIDAK FAHAM BAHASA!!!

                      ‘granted citzenship jus soli bukan terdiri among orang kaya-kaya yang mungkin dah rasuah untuk lobi, tetapi juga coolie-coolie sahaya!‘.

                      I presented facts showing that not all Chinese and Indians in Malaya were in manual labour, demolishing his bullcrap. It is you who is trying to putar-belit facts and making sweeping statements to support you and your friend’s house of cards.’

                      What is my bullcrap to you must be stemmed from your inability untuk FAHAM BAHASA KEBANGSAAN!!! Sebab you BODOH SOMBONG, orang suruh belajar BM tak mau, perasaan high class sebab tu la you tak boleh faham apa yang wa tulis!!!

                      ACDC tak payah nak gaduh panjang-panjang. LU CUBA BACA BETUL2!!!

                      Orang kaya pun dapat citizenship!!!

                      Coolie-coolie pun dapat citizenship!!!

                      Kan susah kalau TAK FAHAM BAHASA! TAK PRAKTIKAL! TAK EKONOMIKAL! DAN TAK BAGUS UNTUK HUBUNGAN SESAMA KAUM DI MALAYSIA!!!

                      TAPI NAK BUAT MACAM MANA, MENTALITI COOLIE KAU ORANG MEMANG TAK BOLEH DIBANTU!!!

                      ACDC SEDIH LA LU!!!

                  2. Helen… rupanya kat sini ACDC masuk sekolah sejarah… itupun dia ni nampak tak faham-faham juga…. rasanya dia ni bukan lagi ODIKAL… tapi, ODIKAP (otak di kepala bunt…t!) hehehe!

            3. “Considering the fact that the Chinese and Indians also had the expertise in the civil service….”– AC-DC

              You can verify that in an anecdotal manner by asking your Chinese peers’ ancestry around. If they are still in 30s/40s, their grandparents could still be around and relate to them their story about coming to Malaya from China, what they did in China back then and so on. One older colleague (in his late 40s) related to me that his grandpa was a low ranking official in China somewhere in Guangdong province and came to Malaya probably due to turbulent political environment in China during that time . He still keep contact with his relatives in China till today although the relationship wasn’t close. Of course his grandpa didn’t come to Malaya to work as a civil servant but dabbled in rubber plantation instead.

              1. If your colleague is in his late 40s, he would have been born in 1968, at earliest. His father would have likely been born in 1950 or earlier, before Independence.

        2. So only those who are wealthy and skillful then. So the bus drivers, road cleaners, garbage collectors, waiter, construction worker, they are just poor trash who don’t deserve any citizenship eh?

  2. quote, “When does a descendent of the pendatang ceased to be perceived as one in the eyes of the majority community?” unquote.

    I am surprised that you should ask a question that you already knew the answer, Helen.

    1. quote, “When does a descendent of the pendatang ceased to be perceived as one in the eyes of the majority community?” unquote.

      When the majority community learns to accept there are other religions and ethnic groups that exist.

      1. AC-DC.,

        Let me answer from Malay perception.

        “when does….”

        WHEN THESE descendents of pendatang stop behaving like pendatang, then they will not be referred as one.

        1. Exactly, having TOILET BOWL BM macam baru sampai dengan TONGKANG SEMALAM, does not help either.

          ACDC, you are no better. 2×5 juga! Bila nak pandai cakap bahasa kebangsaan ni? Takkan nak makan, berak & mati saja kat sini?

          1. I know of many Mainland Chinese studnets in KL who can speak good BM after taking the Bahasa Kebangsaan paper in Uni.

            And I saw too Caucasian girls near USM ordering Nasi Kandar in BM. When the nasi kandar seller tried to fleece the two girls, I heard how they voiced their disgust in French. French studnets too can speak Malay.

            But Malaysian born Chinese with 12 years of BM classes speak and write horrid BM and some cannot sing the Negaraku.

            Are there any Indon Chinese who cannot speak Bahasa Indonesia?

            1. Definitely not!!!

              I have witness this first hand in PJ, bunch of Cina looking speaks Indonesian by the pool ordering some makan pagi.

              And years ago in Midlands Park, one Cina Indonesian speaks bahasa Indonesia with Cina Penang who could not understand him. The Cina Indonesia looks displeased at the ketidakfahaman Cina Penang, the peniaga at his orders.

              Shame!Shame!Shame!

              The high class with 50K gaji with Toilet Bowl BM!!!

        2. “WHEN THESE descendents of pendatang stop behaving like pendatang, then they will not be referred as one.”

          Meaning 1: When these other races and religions give up their culture and religion.

          Meaning 2: Mr. Shamsul Anuar is unable to accept the multicultural existence of other races and religions in Malaysia.

          Several years ago, I was at a seminar in the United Kingdom. After the event I had a discussion with some participants. There was a UK UMNO branch leader who was complaining about the British National Party (BNP) and how racist they were.

          I found this amusing, as this very same branch leader had previously made disparaging comments about the non Malays when he was in Malaysia.

          To be brief, I told him how he was not very much different in thinking from the BNP bigots, and how he now knows how it feels when the shoe is on the other foot. I added that the BNP is a fringe party in the UK, while his party is in power in Malaysia, and directly controls policy and law making.

          He just kept quiet and did not say anything more.

          1. re: “Meaning 1: When these other races and religions give up their culture and religion.”

            You mean like when Mr Hannah Yeoh admits that his “Tamil is not functioning”, when his wife gave up her old religion to convert to Christianity at the age of 19, and when their children are named Shay Adora and Kayleigh Imani?

            I do not see any traces of Indian or Chinese culture, and of Hindu and Buddhist religions in the names of Shay Adora and Kayleigh Imani, do you?

            1. Adora and Imani sounds like some sort of Indo-Persian name. And I believe that her husband still keeps his full name, no?

              1. Adora is Christian obviously (to do with “adoration”) and its origins Hebrew, according to info on the Net. Imani is Arabic (“iman”).

                Your argument is about keeping the original culture and religion. If this is so, then popular names for Indian baby girls would be Lakshmi, Parvati, Saraswati, etc.

                As for Daddikins keeping is own name, I believe that in the same vein of his daughter being recorded as ‘Cina’ in her birth cert, he is better known as Mr Hannah Yeoh. How many readers do you think will be able to tell you what the initials ‘R.M.’ stand for?

                1. “he is better known as Mr Hannah Yeoh”

                  The only person referring him as ‘Mr Hannah Yeoh’ is you. Otherwise, it is Ramachandran Muniandy. Even the children retain the ‘surname’ of their father.

                  Spite is a fascinating phenomenon. I will not be surprised if your blog has more coverage of Hannah than the pro Opposition media itself! The irony!

                  1. Do you want me to put up a poll? How many readers recognize Mr Hannah Yeoh and how many readers recognize the name Ramachandran Muniandy?

                    1. Most of your readers would know who Mr. Ramachandran Muniandy from your blog, thanks to your incessant coverage of Hannah Yeoh. Since you frequently refer to him as ‘Mr. Hannah Yeoh’, the answer is obvious.

                      It is akin to a teacher telling her pupils that ‘Kuala Lumpur’ is Kolompo, then asking them how to spell the name of Malaysia’s largest city.

                  2. re: “I will not be surprised if your blog has more coverage of Hannah than the pro Opposition media itself!”

                    Nothing can beat The J-Star’s 10 tweets in a single day when she was appointed Speaker. Star Online Twitter a/c has more than 300,000 followers. This means that the 10 J-Star tweets appeared 3 million times in the timelines of their followers.

                    There’s no need to overate my little blog. I do not have that big a readership or that kind of reach.

          2. AC-DC,

            Meaning 1: When these other races…

            Did i say that. Did any of Malay leaders say that? No. So stop “putar belit”.

            What I meant is that Chinese politicians( a number of them) behave like “pendatang’. Literally speaking. They reject any integration under one roof. They complain about being treated like 2 nd class when the reality is that they do not show any attempt to integrate. They cant accept the history of the land. they simply can accept this is not China.

            As for accusation, i cant accept multiculturalism, oh please, spare the nonsense.

            It is your type o(species) that refuse to accept reality. Refuse to accept that no way Malays would want Malaysia to become a mini China.

            1. Nobody is looking to turn Malaysia into a mini China. Rather, it is some people who are uneasy with other cultural and religious festivals being practised, and finds it well, “mind boggling” that the number of temples and shrines exceed the number of mosques and suraus, despite the fact that a vast majority of these temples and shrines are very small in size.

              As for the viewpoint that other races are ‘pendatang’ until they convert their culture and religion, I have seen this sentiment being expressed by the far right numerous times.

  3. The Chinese in Malaysia esecially the DAPster types tag Malays as Indonesians, its to give a sense to them that the large Malay population is illegitimate and not legal voters, to them only Cina are legal voters, I always find this attitude as a large shade of the condescending attitude of white South Africans towards the black south africans, the white despite a mimority entreched their power on the sense that they are economically and culturally superior, this trend is evdent in Malaysia as the Chinese segregate their schools amd horde their economic bloc for their own such as demanding Malays teachers be removed from SJKC and actively not hiring educated Malays even in Multinational Companies.

    The Chinese continious attack on Moro immigrants in Sabah as being the pendatang in Sabah hence alleging that 70% of the Muslim population in Sabah is illegal despite the Moro Malay tribes having transiting Sabah for centuries and having common Malay roots and accusing Malays in West Coast as recent Indonesiams pendatang.

    In a forum when Malacca proposed the Dumai bridge, a forumer commented its a dream come true for UMNO as they cam then import more Indons to vote, this memtality is pervasive among the Malaysian Chinese that any Malay they see they think us not Malaysian.

    However, in Singapore, the PAP actively recruit Chinaman and Indians as PRs and new citizems as foreign talent, Malays or Indonesians Muslims are not categorised as foreign talents. Against an extension of the Nanyang Chinese condescending tirade against the Nusantara Malays.

    However the tide has turned.

    If you read among the commentators in TR Emeritus, a portal infested by equally foul mouth snakes as the types in Malaysiakini, the anti immigrant sentiment is bordering xenophobia as they complain their jobs and opportunities are taken away by ironically immigrants from China followed by Chinese and Phillipines.

    The Phillipines were brought in as a substitute to the Malays as the Singaporean Chinese claim that they speak better English than Malays are safer than Muslims Malays as the Pinoys are considered Malays in Singapore ICs but are Catholics hence less terrorist potential, now the Pinoy are giving hard time to the Chinese Singaporeans that Singaporean Chinese in popular SG forums like sgforum and even TR Emeritus demand that they don’t send aid to Taclobans.

    If Malays says such and act like this, its racists, when Nanyang Chinese condemn the mother race that they kowtow to and degrade other races to the extent to not help them in a catastrophe its acceptable.

    Its the same hypocrisy when it comes to their perception to Perkasa when their own Dong Zhomg are equally as bad and even worse as they openly challenge the Constitution whereas Perkasa has not contravened the constitution that is detrimental to the non Malays.

    If only Malays in the 50s were this bitter and xenophobic like the Namyang Chinese, if only Tunku would empower Malay identity like the Indonesians did, then we would not have to deal with the ungratefulness and hollow bitterness of the Malaysian and Singaporean Chinese.

    1. These Cinas, tunggu masa saja, they simply don’t walk the talk, lah, equality BS. Tengok macam mana they layan the pekerja Melayu in the company sudah. Starting with gaji. I’m sure few hundred less. Its and open secret. So apa yang equality bagai?

      Its just that they have different set of standard towards the brownies-sawo matang peoples. We are the stupid Sakai with half baked credentials only fit for the hutan tebal khatuslistiwa. While they are in opposition, they will scream justice for all bla bla bla.

      When they did become the gov, just look at Penang, Melayu nak cari makan pun tak kasi, sabotaj, macam yang jadi kat Queens Bay. Berapa ramai sangat orang nak naik basikal kat situ?

      Selama ni peniaga Melayu dah naikkan tempat tu, ada aktiviti dan dah mula ada crowd, sama macam Uptown Bandar Perda mula dulu, pastu LGE dan rasis DAP sabotaj dengan halus, kononnya nak bina track naik basikal.

      Kat Raja UDA dah lama peniaga berniaga, atas jalan raya, dah berpuluh-puluh tahun, jalan pun sesak, bau busuk, jalan berminyak, takdak pula nampak LGE atau setiausaha rasis anti mamak dia, pergi sana buat beautifiication dan berhentikan Cina daripada cari makan!

      Memang DAP rasis. Makin berkuasa makin jelas. PBA seperti yang Helen highlightkan pun dah nampak.

      Cina tak rasis, ada lah beberapa kerat!

      1. My goodness, they have a plan to cater for more bicycle lanes?!

        http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/in-penang-demand-soars-for-bike-lanes

        How dare the Penang government plan for bicycle transportation in response to demand from the public?! It is our Malaysian way of life to travel everywhere by motorcar! Getting stuck in traffic, looking for parking space, and struggling month to month to meet car loan payments for overpriced cars for the benefit of a few hundred AP holders is the Malaysian way of life!

        Such is the mind of people such as ‘islam1st’

        1. AC-DC,

          You say that you’re not the Dyslexic Dave who works in the Penang FTZ (as I alleged, and you denied). You’re NOT in Penang.

          LGE may claim that he is building bicycle lanes. The question is whether the lanes are actually in use or not. The Penang gomen once built the Kancil carpark. Cars bigger than Kancil could not park. The Kancil carpark had to be demolished.

          Perhaps readers of this blog who are actually living in Penang (e.g. Mulan, PenangDude, etc) can tell us whether these bicycle lanes are as popular as the DAP makes out?

          1. The bicycles lanes are like Hannah’s hubby non functional.

            The dedicated “bicycle lane” in Tanjung Bungah is for leisure cycling not commuting. The “lanes” at Green Lane where people actually live is just is a stupid basikal picture on the road. You can actually get knocked riding your bicycle. And who actually cycles (outside the high class leisure Tanjung Bungah lane)? Nepal, Bangla and Myammar workers! Like Singapore, Penang lang think very little for this people. They risk their lives communting (cycling) on those stupid “basikal pictures” on the road.

            Oh yes. We have “Occupy Beach Street” every month. Other “Occupy… ” is to bantah ketidakadilan. Penang punya is too worship the great leader for tourists.

            https://www.facebook.com/occupybeachstreet

            Bagus ke?

          2. Sigh, I respond to somebody complaining about Penang’s bicycle lanes with a news report about people in Penang asking for more bicycle-friendly roads, and you go full retard.

            I certainly am of the opinion that promoting cycling as a means of travel is good. However, it is a daunting task to change given that our public infrastructure and mindset has historically been set up to give preference to private motor transport.

            1. Although I prefer and choose to be a Selangorian, unfortunately I do know the Penang mentality. And despite that I’m not living in Penang today, I still know enough to know that the Chinese Penangites on the island will not bicycle.

              If you do not know what you’re talking about, don’t presume and then some more assert your mistaken assumption, after which you accuse the person correcting you as going “full retard”.

              1. “And despite that I’m not living in Penang today, I still know enough to know that the Chinese Penangites on the island will not bicycle.”

                It is not just the Chinese, but also Malays, Indians, and all Malaysians. That is why I said it would be a daunting task, especially to overcome this “drive everywhere” mindset.

                How many roads, towns, and housing estates throughout our country are bicycle-friendly? Certainly not Kuala Lumpur, Shah Alam, Johor Baharu, Ipoh, Kuantan, Melaka, Seremban, …

                1. re: “It is not just the Chinese, but also Malays, Indians, and all Malaysians.”

                  Yes but the Bicycle Lane publicity gimmick is being done by the DAP on Penang island where the inhabitants are majority Chinese.

                  1. “Yes but the Bicycle Lane publicity gimmick is being done by the DAP on Penang island where the inhabitants are majority Chinese”

                    There is a serious problem with traffic in Penang. The “Bicycle lane” is one gimmick by the DAP. Imagine the same lane was introduced by BN. The Penang lang says it is lousy etc.

                    Remember the Penang people rejected the monorail when Ajib kor mentioned again in April. If the monorail was introduced by the DAP, the Penang lang will praise it like it is a railway to the moon.

                    Penang people are now in the Pakatan kong tau trance (kong tau = ilmu hitam)

              2. hahahaha….helen, this fella only know the 3C concept….!

                First he will at best try to ‘C’onvince you…when he can’t, he will apply a way to ‘C’onfuse you and finally he will find that you were not that easy to get confused, he will at best try to ‘C’on you…..!

                this 3C were taught by a Japanese Boss of a MultiNastional Company that I work with for over 25 years!

          3. Helen, I alternate my running with cycling in my residential neighborhood at least three times a week. There are no bicycles lanes here. Even with less traffic in this area, I risk getting run down by cars etc almost every time I go cycling (I once kicked a car that almost ran me off the road…the sonofabitch as expected pretended not to see or hear anything while impassively staring directly at me – typical Penang lang style). Such is the attitude of disregard for human life by Penangites.

            The so-called “bicycle lanes” boasted of by DAP are a joke and a bad one at that. Most Penangites will secretly agree with this. Stencil painted drawings of bicycles next to the pavement on busy roads with fast moving “don’t care if you die” traffic do NOT constitute bicycle lanes!

            Who the hell in his right mind would risk his life by cycling on these physically unsegregated “bicycle lanes” unless the fella is contemplating suicide? If in doubt, try cycling on the “bicycle lane” along Jalan Masjid Negeri anytime, day or night.

            I’d like to see LGE or his machais at komtar cycle to work on those bicycle lanes for a month (might be a good way of getting rid of the SOBs)!

            Yet that slippery biawak, LGE keeps boasting about his imaginary bicycle lanes. Just like how keeps like lying about a Cleaner, Greener Penang when he’s sold out our beloved island to alms giving developers to do as they please with as much concrete as they like.

            Such is the duplicity of DAP.

            1. “Just like how keeps like lying about a Cleaner, Greener Penang when he’s sold out our beloved island to alms giving developers to do as they please with as much concrete as they like.”

              Penang government collects 20 sen from every plastic bag given at hypermarkets in Penang (Selangor too.)

              Has anyone seen the accounts of the monies collected? I haven’t. Have you? Have you Kak Helen?

              1. Nope and we probably never will.

                It seems that the meeting room in LGE’s office is a glass walled enclosure. I think his definition of Transparency starts and ends there.

      2. “These Cinas, tunggu masa saja, they simply don’t walk the talk, lah, equality BS. Tengok macam mana they layan the pekerja Melayu in the company sudah. Starting with gaji. I’m sure few hundred less. Its and open secret. So apa yang equality bagai”

        I want to also highlight that in certain factories local graduates are given lower starting pay as compared to “foreign graduates” (including the twining programmes.)

        I remember one 2nd class upper Universiti Malaya graduate was given a lower starting pay and pay scheme as compared to one 3+1 student from a local private college (who spent 6 months in Australia.)

        Some employers openly look down on local good universities but worship foreign institutions even though the half past six ones.

        BTW. Many register at the private colleges too escape Khidmat Negara. This is an open secret. The excuse “meneruskan pengajian”. The sad thing PLKN does not track the student and require them to complete PLKN onece they “tamat pengajian”.

        1. Another highlight.
          There is one private hospital in Penang who has signboards in English, Chinese and Bahasa…. Indonesia.

          For example, cartu diterima di sini. Kamar-kamar doktor etc.

          They cater to the rich Indon Chinese and their staff all speak Bahasa Indonesia.

          Question: Isn’t the hospital situated in Penang, Malaysia? Why no Bahasa MALAYSIA?

          1. Mulan,

            Because the country ruled by UMNO that is known for allowing these racist to step on our heads

  4. Re. Malays or Indonesians Muslims are not categorised as foreign talents.

    There are throng of Singaporean Malays professional and business community in Malaysia now who have PR and waiting for the next step i.e. to be Citizen.

  5. Pendatang is pendatang la. bila mereka mempunyai anak, kita panggil keturunan pendatang. Ini bukan satu penghinaan, ini bahasa mudah. Anak pendatang, takkanlah kita nak panggil anak buluh betung pulak?

    Bukannya kita cakap pendatang haram atau keturunan pendatang haram!!!

    Kalau tak faham bahasa, inilah musibahnya! Tu la orang suruh belajar BM takmau, dah bodoh sombong pulak tu!

    1. “Kalau tak faham bahasa, inilah musibahnya! Tu la orang suruh belajar BM takmau, dah bodoh sombong pulak tu”

      Lirik Negaraku orang macam itu pun tak tau. ADA orang yang bermegah tak tahu BM dan lirik Negaraku.

      Only in Malaysia!

  6. Shamsul Anuar’s “WHEN THESE descendents of pendatang stop behaving like pendatang, then they will not be referred as one” is SPOT ON.

    Chinese want to have another Kingdom of their own in places they reside (then stay in Chinatown lor) and even want to claim citizenship? (then go to China and Taiwan, see if any Ah Beng and Ah Lian will be accepted).

    1. A Woman,

      For as long as I can remember, Chinese community believe that separate life from other Malaysians are their right.

      Last election simply shows reality to them. Despite almost entire chinese community rejects BN (or more importantly reject UMNO), they were unable to bring down the government.

      I think many Chinese especially from DAP are crossing the line of decency with their provocative behaviour.

  7. When Malays talk about their hospitality & generosity towards ‘pendatangs’, we also need to examine recent and current behaviour of some of these Malays towards ‘pendatangs’.

    Just google on the riots that happened in recent times, the myanmars, Indonesians, etc. in the camps. Going by those reports, would the Malays be viewed as the epitome of generosity and compassion?

    Just as the decendants of the “pendatangs” are different from their forefathers, the Malays today are also not the same as the previous generations. The behaviour of these “pendatangs” are shaped by the environment they grew up in.

    Generalising distorts the truth.

  8. ‘Just as the decendants of the “pendatangs” are different from their forefathers, the Malays today are also not the same as the previous generations.’

    How true. Maybe it began as a defensive response but Malays today are just as arrogant and materialistic as the Chinese.

    The showdown is imminent.

    O.K Corral one more time?

    1. re: “The showdown is imminent. O.K Corral one more time?”

      Yes. Poor Indians. Pelanduk mati di tengah.

  9. if like to quote from the forbes on a comment made by a Singaporean towards the pendatangs in singapore

    ‘Then there was downright acrimony. In the comments section of the YouTube bus video, “dragonvenon105” posted: “Outsiders coming to our country because their own country has not enough work should be greatful [sic]. Singapore has no riots for manys [sic] years, so why should they have the rights to start a riot? Because they help build our country? I DON’T THINK SO!”

    Source:http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwells/2013/12/09/singapores-little-india-riot-a-shock-but-not-a-total-surprise/

    The UMNO and malays never denied the contribution of the chinese and indians to the country only want the same chance to develop their society, its a reason why UMNO stick thin and thick with MCA and MiC and vice versa for example MCA not abandoning UMNO when UMNO was declared illegal. Orang Melayu tahu rasa melayu bila berani kata cina dan india tak sumbang kepada negara.

    Its ironic that we can see the opposite mentality in Singapore, that is to denigrade the pendatangs and deny their contributions and dignity, even if it is just a youtube comment, because that aint a Singaporean that color blind and meritocratic, it is pure venomous xenophobia.

    The kuli immigrants in Singapore are the sole reason Singapore can prop up its GDP growth yet the Singaporean, govt and the Singaporean chinese make it life extremely difficult and denying human dignity to the migrant workers especially the non chinese migrants like Bangladeshi, indians and Phillipines who will never get Pr or citizenship as the Chinamen (TR Emeritus reported cases of uneducated chinamen hawkers getting instant citizenship) and eventually be sent back with bruises and unpaid salary once they are of no use.

    And the Singaporean chinese demand why the South Asians did not abide by the rule, because Singapore has never abide by the rule even to its own people, – a unfair election, dismal CPF returns, no public healthcare (paid mostly by CPF), scholarships given to foreigners (according to TR Emeritus only 6% of Singaporean students at its universities are under government scholarship, the rest given to Chinamen), million dollar public housing, no minimum wage.

    If the LEEgime cant be fair to its stupid and docile Singaporean Chinese, what hope do the transient migrants in Singapore get, worse than scraps, not even the ejecta, like i said, oppress a people until they are on their primal instinct that is to survive. The south indians in litttle india were probably loafing around thinking about the sufferings they endure and snapped when they see a Singaporean killing one of their own.. hence the primal instinct unleashed.

    1. re: “reported cases of uneducated chinamen hawkers getting instant citizenship”

      Chinese love food and the talent of the hawkers in cooking street food is highly valued.

      Thus the good ones are in great demand in S’pore, e.g. Penang hawkers are invited to the top Singapore hotels during holiday season to do promotions. They get paid lucratively which is an indication of their high premium.

      1. Replace the chinamen hawker with Indonesian hawker and granted Malaysian citizenship, Malaysiakini would be howling with UMNO plot to import indonesians to vote BN, Singapore has a policy of only granting citizenship to chinamen to play around with demographics, it is an open secret that no one questions thanks to its lapdog media. But Singaporean chinese now even seething with anger at the chinamen and even Malaysian Chinese immigrants that are suppressing wages and compete with them for jobs and HDB flats. The typical insult to a Singaporean Chinese now is ‘You must be from China’ which Is IRONIC.

        its interesting that Australia imposed strict requirements on immigrants which require some sort if tertiary education and english proficiency. And 50k per capita Singapore have to grant citizenship to illiterate chinamen to cook premium pork on its streets, perhaps they should grants citizenship to a Javanese to cook bakso and malays to make nasi lemak. The reality is, singapore immigration policy is racial in nature due to the LKY eugenics view that chinamen DNA means smarter which can be easily picked up in any LKY interview, its neo nazi to the core if i borrow the Dapster diction this time,

        I read the silly Daily Mail time to time and they covered the riot
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520403/Singapore-riot-Hundreds-foreign-workers-torch-cars-attack-police-worst-riots-Singapore-40-years-Indian-man-killed-bus.html

        An interesting comment from a typical Englishman

        willistroker, London, United Kingdom, 2 days ago
        The same the world over, foreign workers and immigrants cause nothing but problems in every society.
        368
        961 Click to rate

        Perhaps they should make an article on how immigrants caused the secession of an entire island from it malayan heartland…. singapore should be grateful its just riots and not Bedok being turned into an independent Malay Sultanate. Despite their fears of muslim waves from malaysia and indonesia, something worse will happen, Singapore being the 24th state of China which is a nightmare for Singaporean Chinese nowadays.

    2. You know, when that AmBank officer was shot and killed by a guard with a false Malaysian Identity Card, there were a lot of anti-Indonesian comments posted onto the internet by Malaysians.

      We had and have an anti-African sentiment barring them from living in condominiums. There is a lot of anti-African news reports in our papers and tabloids, especially Utusan and Kosmo.

      I have read anti-Myanmar and anti-Rohingya remarks from Malays on Facebook.

      So, we are no better.

      1. ACDC,

        so when you say ‘So, we are no better’ you meant the Malays are no better didn’t you?

        If not, how come you only single out Utusan and Kosmo as if vernakular papers does not do the same!

        Remember Kepong langs going berserk with the Africans in their areas?

        Such is ACDC!!!

        1. “so when you say ‘So, we are no better’ you meant the Malays are no better didn’t you?”

          No.

          I also said there were a lot of anti-Indonesian online comments by Malaysians after the AmBank robbery.

          Use your head. Do not be “islam1st, otak-last”.

          1. re: “The district had a 80% Malay voter demographic. Yet, he blamed the minority Chinese, who were less than 20%.”

            Hey, you were the one who said, a mere comment earlier, that even 10 percent voters (Chinese in 1955, Indians in 2008) must be respected.

            re: “Well, you dropped into the dialogue and asked ‘what school I studied in’ and if I was taught that the British brought in professionals to tap rubber and mine for tin. Remember?”

            Well, I asked you. But okay, I withdraw from faulting you since what you rebut is reasonable enough.

            re: “Certainly not overwhelmingly, but significant, and more than the Malay workforce.”

            Just because there were too few Malay doctors does not necessarily mean that there were a lot of Chinese doctors. Like you said, Malaya was neither developed nor industrialized those years. There were few professionals, full-stop.

            re: “Fine if you were not claiming that ‘all non-Malays in those states were just rubber tappers and tin miners’. But you were certainly trying to rubbish the fact that there were many non Malays in the sectors not related to manual labour…”

            Specific to the FMS, yes, and in relation to the one million Merdeka new citizens. I made a distinction for Penang and Malacca, remember? I can’t say much about Malacca ‘cos I wouldn’t know but Penang has old families. Dr Lim Chong Eu’s father, for example, was a doctor too and there is a road named after him.

            re: “See, not all coolies. And that is just one company.”

            Train conductors, train drivers and railway workers are still manual labour. And their descendents are not well off. See my previous article on Mengkibol railway families to be evicted — ‘here

            re: “Your words: ‘The Chinese women would be those in Malacca and Penang. The labourers who came to work in the tin mines in Selangor and Perak would be men’.”

            Well, if the Education Ministry sent 15 male teachers and 85 female teachers to a school, we would still say that teachers are women. Not a total absence male teachers but certainly an acute shortage.

            And if they all married each other, some of the female teachers would be left unwed. See, so not as many babies as you would claim to be procreated from 100 individuals (not 50 couples but only 15 married pairs).

            1. i dun quite grasp what is the bone of contention here, however at that time, could it be the criterion of comparison is skill and non skill, or entrepreneurship, rather than professional and non? however i still dun think that is the main criteria, because among all the sea countries, it seem only brunai not doing what the rest did.

            2. “Hey, you were the one who said, a mere comment earlier, that even 10 percent voters (Chinese in 1955, Indians in 2008) must be respected.”

              A politician blaming a minority for not voting him while ignoring the larger portion of the majority that also did not, reeks of selective bias.

              “Just because there were too few Malay doctors does not necessarily mean that there were a lot of Chinese doctors. Like you said, Malaya was neither developed nor industrialized those years. There were few professionals, full-stop.

              Train conductors, train drivers and railway workers are still manual labour. And their descendents are not well off. See my previous article on Mengkibol railway families to be evicted — ‘here‘”

              Few professionals, but their ratio was higher than the number of Malay professionals during that period. Tun Mahathir even took pride in being “one of the very few Malay doctors” in Malaya at that time.

              A Kugathas; Othering the Malay in Malaysia: A Planned Consequence of Politics?

              Compared to a rubber tapper, cowherd, or farm hand, a train conductor, signalman, train engineer (driver) would be a step up. That is why thousands of rural people jostle for jobs at a factory, even for the menial position of a factory worker, watchman, or cleaner. It is not as back-breaking as working a farm, and it pays more.

              1. re: “A politician blaming a minority for not voting him while ignoring the larger portion of the majority that also did not, reeks of selective bias.”

                But 90 percent (big majority) of that minority voted oppo. When you want to talk about “two-party system” and “check and balance”, it is optimally 50-50 (plus minus) or 45:55 or 40:60. At 10:90 there is no longer possibility for any kind of internal check-and-balance within that community itself.

                As one example of the impossibility of check-and-balance, take Guan Eng’s “racist grandmother” sneer. His putdown of the state opposition leader and her office is indefensible. But try telling that to all his Chinese supporters that he deserves censure.

                When there is a 90-percent mob and no reasoning can be gotten through to them, and they are cocooned in their own delusional bubble, ini mengundang musibah.

                re: “Few professionals, but their ratio was higher than the number of Malay professionals during that period. Tun Mahathir even took pride in being “one of the very few Malay doctors” in Malaya at that time.”

                Just because there were more Chinese doctors than Malay doctors (fact not disputed) still does not mean that there were a lot of Chinese doctors per se.

                re: “Compared to a rubber tapper, cowherd, or farm hand, a train conductor, signalman, train engineer (driver) would be a step up.”

                TRIVIA: P. Uthayakumar’s father was a train engineer (driver).

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