Posted in Gunting Dalam Lipatan

J-Star tuntut campurtangan orang asing dalam kemelut ‘Allah’

June Wong, pengarang nombor satu The J-Star, berkata bahawa ketetepan-ketetapan yang telah dibuat untuk menangani isu ‘Allah’ setakat ini oleh kerajaan adalah tersasar daripada landasan progresif (“run contrary to the progressive, moderate 1Malaysia we are so proud of, especially on the international stage”).

Ungkapan “moderate 1Malaysia we are so proud of” adalah terang-terang sebuah kelentong murahan oleh pengarang evangelista suratkhabar pro-DAP yang sering menikam belakang pengerusi BN — sang pencipta konsep ‘1Malaysia’ tersebut.

Sedap-sedap The J-Star mengungkit ‘1Malaysia’ apabila mahu memenuhi agenda Kristian tetapi pada detik-detik yang lain pula, cogankata itu dibiar sahaja mereka (para Scissorati) ia diperlekeh oleh puak evangelista DAP.

Dan juga begitu mudah Najib Razak dikaburi matanya oleh MCA; Perdana Menteri kita tidak peka seraya mengambil mudah segala keluhan umat Islam.

Pengarang J-Star June Wong menulis dalam rencananya hari ini:

“But if we can’t resolve this internally by ourselves, perhaps we should seek an international panel of eminent ex­­perts to act as mediators to help us get out of this impasse rationally and equitably.

There is no shame in seeking outside help in times of crisis and if this isn’t a crisis, I don’t know what is.”

Syornya agar diminta “pertolongan orang luar” / “pakar-pakar agama antarabangsa menjadi pengantara” adalah merupakan satu tamparan terhadap kedaulatan raja-raja Melayu yang peranan DYMM adalah sebagai ketua agama dalam negara baginda masing-masing.

Cukuplah maruah agama rasmi negara tak habis diinjak-injak oleh evangelista ekstremis yang bertopengkan media.

Nota: Rencana June Wong ini diulangsiar di Jakarta Post dan lain-lain saluran media antarabangsa.

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111 thoughts on “J-Star tuntut campurtangan orang asing dalam kemelut ‘Allah’

  1. We should keep this to our self since this is Allah Malay style not the universal Islamic Allah especially when Helen think this Allah should be kept to Malay race only and let alone subject to International Muslim view.

    1. Yupp.. we should keep to ourselves.. until Vatican decide what’s is the name of their God.. don’t let Christian’s God confuse their name..

      1. Actually in the Judaic tradition, the Name of the Most Holy of Holies, God on High is unpronounceable:- YHWH

        1. then come a cinapek tak sunat muka tebal tak malu nak mengaku meneruskan covenant Nabi Ibrahim dengan Allah SWT.

          Christianity Bintang Tiga Style!!!

            1. I suggest we investigate who Jane Wong is… her point of origin in Malaysia.. Kalau boleh trace back to her roots in China.. Biasanya penyakit gila is hereditary. Check all her family members,

              1. Maybe she related to Ong Tee Kiat, orang MCA yang yang paling gila kuasa. ONg, Wong, bunyi same same. Otak pun same same.

    2. Mana Hishamuddin lembut, ni June Wong minta Vatican attack Kesultanan Melayu.. hmm bukan hisham lagi tapi kenapa KDN berdiam diri. Ini adalah tindakan teroris oleh Cina di The STAR meminta negeir Cina untuk campur tangan dalam hal ehwal Malaysia.

      Sudah tiba masenya orang Cina faham, Kristian itu ugama penjajah dan bukan ugama orang Kristian. Kejahatan Kristianity di seluruh dunia di akui dan orang eropah berterimakasih kepada orang Melayu kerana menentang Katolik ini. jangan pula tak tahu Elton John katat in future Kristianity will be banned. In the US bible is banned in schools.

      Evolution is the way in the US and bible thumpers are laughed out with their world is made in 6 days theory.

    1. Zul writes on the ‘Blasphemy of Allah’ in the abstract (theoretically).

      He does not address the agents, i.e. the culprits in Jerusubang who keep subverting the Muslim claim on the word. Since he is the vice president of Perkasa, he should be more proactive.

      Instead it is the smaller group Isma that’s on the ball. See, http://www.ismaweb.net/v4/2014/01/kristian-evangelis-untung-besar-di-malaysia/

      http://www.ismaweb.net/v4/2014/01/pelampau-kristian-diseru-hormati-perlembagaan/

  2. Re. we should seek an international panel of eminent ex­­perts to act as mediators

    The Con-sultant should invite Oprah Winfrey, Barbra Walters, Bill O’reilly and the likes on the panel and for good measures none of them is Muslim Ulama.

    1. How about some fellas from the Church of Scientology and closer to home, Singapore’s City Harvest?

      1. Re. How about some fellas from the Church of Scientology

        Haven’t you heard that rumor has it that “He” is in the closet?

        1. Banned in several countries or at least view with much suspicions in Germany ‘Church of Scientology’, may not deemed Christian to some.

          Typical pendatang coolie complex, asyik2 nak panggil orang luar, just like a bunch of retards asking Obama to rain us with drones after GE13.

          Mak Borek, Anak Rintik!

  3. Saudara nuar will b the happiest If outsiders come to the rescue. MB khalid is like acting deaf n dumb. PM Najib wants problems to be solved amicably among the hard headed rakyat.

    1. re: “PM Najib wants problems to be solved amicably among the hard headed rakyat.”

      Amazing that PM Najib actually believes the hard-headed rakyat (Dapsters and evangelistas) have the capacity to amicably solve problems. Wonder if this is what his RM7.2 bilion consultancy told him?

      1. Helen,

        What is it with Najib that he still unable to understand DAP ands its fanatical stand?

        Najib is still dreaming. Dreaming that DAP is capable of being rational.

        There is nothing rational about DAP. It thrives by creating imaginary fear among Chinese that the Malays are just waiting to destroy them. It lies to the Christians by giving false impression that UMNO, Malays, Muslims are waiting to treat Christians harshly.

        All these lies are bringing Malays and Chinese literally to collision course. since most Muslims are Malays and most vocal and overzealous Christian preachers are chinese, the Allah saga will cut racial line.

        Najib feels that being “cool” is elegant. But he seems detached and “without emotion”. this is another big problem with Malaysia when the PM refuses to fight all accusations to his government, wife, Malays, islam head on.

        1. re: “and most vocal and overzealous Christian preachers are chinese”

          So are The J-Star evangelista bosses like Wong Chun Wai and June Wong.

  4. The Star have one article where the writer openly says that our electoral system is flawed because of the one pass system.

    The gunting sudah berani tunjuk belang.

    Wong Chun Wai even make a stupid opinion piece where he mockingly write that he is glad returning to Malaysia after which he writes the negative news in Malaysia as if to say he is not glad to be back except for his million RM annual salary at The Gunting.

    The Star is sickening. BTW, I have not bought a single Star ever for months, I only read Joceline Tan articles if they are updates and open the site for awhile to scan for the title, today I and recently I read Wong Chun Wai piece and one article in the website, the journalism is like tabloid level with no clear analysis only simple minded propaganda.

    1. re: ” the journalism is like tabloid level with no clear analysis only simple minded propaganda”

      If its delusional readership is perpetually hysterical, then tabloid level journalism serves the purpose fine.

      The lack of clear analysis allows the Scissorati to paint the DAP as white and Umno as black.

      Wrt to the simple minded propaganda, it’s a circular argument. That’s why the oppo supporters are kept delusional and perpetually hysterical, and the J-Star board rolling in million-ringgit directors’ fees and bonuses. They probably gave Madame Speaker some useful tips on how to approve your own salary increase.

      1. To attain knowledge, keep adding things everyday; To attain wisdom, keep removing things everyday.

        One cannot reflect while in a gushing stream; Only those who know inner peace can teach something meaningful to others.
        (Lao Tze)

        Why bother thinking about things when others have done it for you? [YouTube]

  5. “….perhaps we should seek an international panel …..
    ……There is no shame in seeking outside help……..”

    Now let us see who surfaces (emerge) as the foreign hand to organize the peace talk to resolve this issue.

    I still don’t think they are the people who will be arranging the accomodation and flight tickets for the Christian clowns to get out of the country when all hells break loose here.

    Or Me? Tor For?

    1. You missed out – how much mullah is enough to get them on dapster’s court. This also got to factor.

    2. Badpotato,

      Try suggesting Saudi Arabia as the foreign power to mediate. Let us see how the DAP sympathiser, June, reacts.

      1. June Wong akan turn into a khinzir that she is!

        Helen banyak berat mau load. Itu DOS attack sudah datang balik ka?

        Wa pakai unifi wor? Apasal slow?

  6. And what if, these foreign religious panel, after taking huge consideration and deliberation, factoring the sensitivity issue that they wholeheartedly believe by making Allah a generic name will cause chaos among the various races decided with the current status quo: usable in sabah/sarawak but not in peninsular, will they accept it and not appeal like what they’re doing now?

    Bear in mind, though the name is widely used in the middle east, their culture,way of life are different from us.

    Always be careful of what you wish for, sometimes it is not what you expected – it may bite you in the ass.

  7. I don’t see this issue as very difficult to settle as to involve any ‘international party’ to resolve. It’s simple. There are laws that clearly provide sufficient platform from both parties.

    The court had already decided that the Church can’t use the word Allah. Case closed.

    The bible was confiscated based on law of the land in Selangor in which Pakatan is in power to amend the present law. Should the Christians feel that they are being oppressed because of the law, approach your MPs and submit a proposal to repeal or amend the law.

    So, now that it is clear, it is not hard to identify the provocateur and the enemy within that is still trying to play with the sentiments.

    I already know who the real perpetrators are. Do you?

    1. re: “I already know who the real perpetrators are. Do you?”

      More importantly, does the Prime Minister?

      1. I honestly and personally dislike that Noh omar of UMNO had come out to explain their distaste of the issue and to stand by JAIS’ actions. UMNO of Selangor should stay quiet because they are the opposition. Their actions will not bring anything good for them or their party in Selangor. Trust me.

        Let PAS and PKR do the fighting for the Muslims in Selangor. They had the majority support of the Muslims in Selangor anyway.

        UMNO should stay out of it. This does not mean that they have ‘no balls’ but they have to realize that they have no support from the Muslims in Selangor. They should just support in silent.

        Let Muslims in Selangor reap the fruit that they sow from the last PRU.

        1. re: “they have to realize that they have no support from the Muslims in Selangor”

          Umno holds 12 DUN seats. Umno could have gotten some 60 percent of the Malay votes in Selangor.

          Note: Pakatan swept Selangor because there are a lot of Chinese and Indian voters. I don’t think Umno should duck on this issue. If Umno doesn’t step into the breach in Selangor, Perkasa, Isma and the rest of the Muslim NGOs will.

          1. I would advise UMNO Selangor to strategize an underground movement to explain the issues to the grassroot of the Muslim community in Selangor. But to just spend 10 seconds on the National news is not going to help their cause at all. Is UMNO Selangor still sleeping?

          2. Helen,

            The JAIS raid is not a political issue. It is not about UMNO vs PR, Islam vs Christian or Evangelista vs Muslim etc. The way I see, it is very much a legal issue. Unfortunately, politicians politicised it for their benefits.

            JAIS acted under section 9 of the Enactment 1988. The Enactment derived its power from Art. 11(4) that allows state to enact laws to restrict propagation. On the same Art. 11, clause (1) allows a person the right to profess his religion subject to clause (4), i.e. restriction against propagation. Take note that clause (1) is enacted in a general nature only to be confined by the limitation in clause (4).

            In trying to harmonise the entire Art. 11, I think a person is free to profess his religion in any manner (including the use of the word Allah in alkitab) subject to the prohibition against propagation (as long as the alkitab containing the word Allah is not used to proselytise Muslims). Having said that, Section 9 of the Enactment 1988 is not unconstitutional although it was worded as a blanket ban. The action of JAIS is unconstitutional as they raided and seized the alkitab that is not used for propagation (assuming JAIS is unable to proof that the seizure is to prevent the alkitab from being used for proselytization, which I think the burden of proof is very high).

            You may refer here:-

            http://www.theantdaily.com/news/2014/01/06/jais-raid-selangor-enactment-ultra-vires-federal-constitution

            The relevant part:-

            However, Universiti Malaya law faculty Professor Dr Azmi Sharom feels the Selangor enactment is not ultra vires the Federal Constitution.

            “It is not ultra vires the constitution as the constitution clearly states that you can enact laws to control proselytising.

            “The question, however, is what evidence they had that this was being used for that purpose? If you are enforcing the law and using it against people who are not proselytsing, then it’s unconstitutional,” Azmi told theantdaily.

            1. True, the anti proselytizing law takes precedence over freedom to practice, its the reason why the federal govt oppose the use of Allah by the extremist and war mongering christians.. you tell me christians wont use it to propagate their voodoo faith.. gimme a break..

              As RPK says, the law is the law even if it is an ass for the christian extremists and war mongers,

              I declare christian extremists are war mongers as they openly tell the Sabahan and Sarawakian to fight for independence in malaysiakini, fmt and kinisider.. they are unsubordinating the rule of the Agong and therefore hostile to the peace and stability of this country.

              Kalau bukan christian extremist jangan terasa.. can go on pray to ur 3 in 1 gods

              1. Re: you tell me christians wont use it to propagate their voodoo faith.. gimme a break..

                Please do not generalise all the Christians in Malaysia as proselytizers. This is tantamount to say that Muslims must treat all Christians in Malaysia as ‘enemy’, which is definitely not the case. Your frustration should be focused on the ‘evangelista’. Leave the peace loving Christians alone. Not every Malaysians are ‘extremists are war mongers’. Be rational and don’t generalise. Then you will be able to see the ‘wisdom’ in my points.

                1. Perhaps you are sound enough. But the rest of the English language media aren’t.

                  The christian moderate must make their voices heard so that the Muslims can differentiate between the moderates and the evangelist extremists!

                  1. Re: But the rest of the English language media aren’t.

                    Don’t allow the media to cloud our judgment. As we know, all the media in Malaysia is either owned by political parties (whether directly or by proxies) or politically inclined (Mkini-opposition).

                    Re: The christian moderate must make their voices heard

                    They already have. These ‘moderate christian’ said that as long as the word Allah is not used to proselytize Muslims and used within the confinement of Christianity, it is not an offence.

                    Example,

                    Alkitab with the word Allah used to convert Muslim. This is an offence.

                    Alkitab with the word Allah used by Christians in church. This is not an offence.

                    Alkitab with the word Allah stored in boxes yet to be used by anyone. Is this an offence?

                    1. ‘Is this an offence?’

                      Yes. It ‘contravened section 9 of Selangor’s Non-Islamic Religions (Control of Propagation Among Muslims) Enactment 1988.’ and the ‘offence under the enactment came under civil law and was not under syariah jurisdiction, as such, it applied to non-Muslims as well.’

                      http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/muslim-groups-rap-nucc-for-censuring-jais-over-bbles-seizure

                      Zulkifli Nordin added ‘that the contention by NUCC that the seizure went against the 10-point solution was wrong, as the 10-point solution did not cover the use of the word Allah.

                      “Nothing in the 10-point resolution says that Malay Bibles can contain the word Allah. It merely says that Bibles in Malay can be imported,”

                      ‘When pointed out that the Home Ministry had given its stamp of approval for the imported Bibles, Zulkifli reiterated that it did not mean the Home Ministry had approved of the word Allah in the Bibles.’

                      “The government allows the Bibles to be imported, but any imported material must comply with the laws in the country.

                      “And having the word Allah means the importer and the distributor are the ones who have not complied with the law.

                      “Jais is not wrong in its actions, although it is being made out to be so by the NUCC,” he said.’

                      http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/muslim-groups-rap-nucc-for-censuring-jais-over-bbles-seizure

                      Please read also on Satd on the issue.

                      http://satdthinks.blogspot.com/2011/01/allah-ciplak-time-travel-into-17th.html

                    2. islam1st,

                      Re: Yes. It ‘contravened section 9 of Selangor’s Non-Islamic Religions (Control of Propagation Among Muslims) Enactment 1988.’ and the ‘offence under the enactment came under civil law and was not under syariah jurisdiction, as such, it applied to non-Muslims as well.’

                      Agree with you. The Enactment is indeed a civil state law applicable to non-Muslims. Simply because it was enacted under Art 11(4) of the Constitution that provides:

                      State law and in respect of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Labuan, federal law may control or restrict the propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam.

                      The legal question is:

                      Whether the blanket prohibition of the word Allah under section 9 of the Enactment 1988 is consistent with Art 11(4)?

                      The way I see, the prohibition has to be made in the context of restricting propagation. The Enactment may provide for any method as long as it is used to control or restrict propagation.

                      My understanding of the JAIS raid:

                      JAIS seized the 300 plus alkitab that used the word Allah. Prima facie, JAIS is empowered to do so under section 9 of the Enactment 1988.

                      We must not look at the raid solely in the context of the Enactment 1988. The Enactment derived its power from Art 11(4) of the Constitution. The key word in the Art is “control or restrict the propagation”.

                      Now, where is the element of ‘propagation’ in relation to the 300 alkitab? Can JAIS show that the raid is to prevent the alkitab from being used as an instrument of propagation. Unless JAIS can prove, the raid may be illegal.

                      I have quoted previously:-

                      http://www.theantdaily.com/news/2014/01/06/jais-raid-selangor-enactment-ultra-vires-federal-constitution

                      “It is not ultra vires the constitution as the constitution clearly states that you can enact laws to control proselytising.
                      [I think both of us have agreed that the Enactment 1988 is legal]

                      “The question, however, is what evidence they had that this was being used for that purpose? If you are enforcing the law and using it against people who are not proselytsing, then it’s unconstitutional,” Azmi told theantdaily.
                      [I have stated my view on this point, would appreciate your reply]

                      Thanks.

                    3. If the Enactment 1988 with its provision of Section 9(1) will still allow Jais to seize more Al-Kitab in future, then why are the DAP doing an about-turn on the proposal initially put forward by the party’s three evangelista Aduns in Selangor?

                  2. islam1st,

                    Re: Alkitab with the word Allah used by Christians in church. This is not an offence.

                    Do you agree with my statement above?

                    1. ‘Whether the blanket prohibition of the word Allah under section 9 of the Enactment 1988 is consistent with Art 11(4)?’

                      Yes. Islam adalah Agama Persekutuan.

                      ‘The way I see, the prohibition has to be made in the context of restricting propagation. The Enactment may provide for any method as long as it is used to control or restrict propagation.’

                      Absolutely. JAIS did exactly that. Control and restrict. Prevention is better than cure. DUMC like event must be prevented from recurring.The raid is perfectly legal.

                      Remembers Azlina Jailani?

                      ‘This is to certify that AZLINA BT JAILANI (LINA) child of JAILANI BIN SHARIFF and his wife KALTHUM BIN OMAR born at Selangor date of Birth 08 January 1964 was baptized in CHURCH OF OUR LADY FATIMA-BRICKFIELDS KL on the 11 May in the year of our Lord 1998.’

                      ‘Now, where is the element of ‘propagation’ in relation to the 300 alkitab?’

                      ALLAH.

                      ‘If you are enforcing the law and using it against people who are not proselytsing, then it’s unconstitutional’

                      To Control and restrict. Remembers Aishah Bukhari?

                      ‘On November 18/97, I left my job on my own free will as I was afraid that upon my family’s knowledge of my intentions of conversion to a Catholic and marrying Joseph they woul definitely abduct me back to my hometown in Johore Bahru and confine me there for good. So, I decided to stay with Joseph’s mother in Seremban.’

                      Is this ‘not proselytsing’?

                      Where is Aishah Bukhari now? Did her parents get to save her from murtad?

                      Control & Restrict is the key word here.

                      ‘Alkitab with the word Allah used by Christians in church. This is not an offence.’

                      Apparently not, according Tan Sri Abu Talib Othman, who was the chief legal adviser to the government for 13 years from 1980.

                      ‘It has the effect of a binding precedent and all have to respect that decision, whether you agree or disagree,’

                      http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/allah-decision-binding-on-all-malaysians-says-retired-ag-abu-talib

                    2. islam1st,

                      re: Yes. Islam adalah Agama Persekutuan.

                      It doesn’t mean that anything which is un-islamic is illegal. It has to be in the context of controlling propagation. Look at the entire Art 11 of FedCon. It allows other religion to practice freely subject to non-propagation.

                      re: Absolutely. JAIS did exactly that. Control and restrict.

                      JAIS exercised its powers under the law. The power is not arbitrary or discretionary in nature. JAIS needs to prove the alkitab is indeed used for propagation. What JAIS is doing now:

                      Possession 300 alkitabs = Propagation

                      JAIS has to do better than that. The above is merely suspicion. JAIS has to substantiate the raid. Where is the prosecution against BSM? If not pressing charges, then return the alkitab.

                      re: Remembers Azlina Jailani?

                      Go and take action on the person that proselytized Azlina. Leave other Christians untouched.

                      re: ALLAH

                      This is a very simplistic approach. It is like saying anyone who possesses a knife has committed a crime. There is nothing wrong in possessing a knife unless it is used for criminal purposes.

                      re: Remembers Aishah Bukhari?

                      Go and take action on the person that proselytized Azlina. How to justify just because of one case, you want to ban millions of Christians from using the word Allah? Is Azlina converted due to the Allah word or some other reasons?

                      re: Apparently not, according Tan Sri Abu Talib Othman, who was the chief legal adviser to the government for 13 years from 1980.

                      Then why BN set-up the 10-point Solution knowing that a federal policy is inferior to state enactments on Islamic matters? Trying to cheat the Christians in Sabah Sarawak?

                    3. re: “Art 11 of FedCon. It allows other religion to practice freely subject to non-propagation.”

                      See Shad Saleem Faruqi:

                      “Nine of the state laws resort to overkill by banning the usage of a number of Muslim or Arabic words without linking the usage to any attempt at proselytisation.

                      Even if the words are used in private, or to followers of one’s own faith, the usage is outlawed.

                      This appears unconstitutional. It would be useful to move the Federal Court for a ruling on this issue as to whether various state enactments under Article 11(4) are partly or wholly contrary to the Constitution.”

                      http://www.thestar.com.my/Opinion/Columnists/Reflecting-On-The-Law/Profile/Articles/2014/01/23/Storm-in-a-teacup/

                      Conclusion: It remains an offence even minus the element of propagation. Unless the Selangor DUN wants to start the ball rolling by amending Enactment 1988, then it is a state offence. So how?

                    4. MODIFY:

                      “Unless the Selangor DUN wants to start the ball rolling by amending Enactment 1988, then it WILL CONTINUE TO BE a state offence.”

                      Or the Aduns who are the Christian champions have to challenge the constitutionality of those state laws.

                    5. Helen,

                      re: “Nine of the state laws resort to overkill by banning the usage of a number of Muslim or Arabic words without linking the usage to any attempt at proselytisation.

                      Even if the words are used in private, or to followers of one’s own faith, the usage is outlawed.

                      This appears unconstitutional. It would be useful to move the Federal Court for a ruling on this issue as to whether various state enactments under Article 11(4) are partly or wholly contrary to the Constitution.”

                      Thanks for the link.

                      Note that Shad Saleem used the word ‘overkill’. I would interpret as ‘ultra vires’, i.e. beyond the powers. If you read Art. 11 entirely, state laws my restrict other religions in the context of propagation only. If there is no propagation, state laws have no powers to act. That is why the learned professor said: “…….. without linking the usage to any attempt at proselytisation.”

                      Shad Saleem also said:

                      “I must add that some provisions of state laws enacted under Article 11(4) appear as unconstitutional as can be. The spirit of the Constitution in Article 11(4) is to forbid any att­empt to proselytise Muslims to other faiths.”

                      and

                      There should be close examination of the Court of Appeal’s attempt to subordinate Article 11 (freedom of religion) to Article 3 (Islam). In this context, Article 3(4) should be taken note of: “Nothing in this Article derogates from any other provision of the constitution”.

                      The position of Islam is subordinate or subservient to the FedCon. It is the FedCon that gave Islam the position of ‘religion of the federation’. If without Art. 3, Islam is nothing in Malaysia.

                      Question:

                      How long the Federal Court will take to hear and adjudicate the appeal? Previously, the Court of Appeal took 4 years to decide on the High Court decision. Court is under the jurisdiction of the BN Federal Government. BN may have no power to influence the impartiality of the judges (I assume), they definitely have the power to expedite the hearing of the appeal by bring forward the dates. Prolonging the appeal process at the apex court will show mala fide intention of BN, i.e. to allow confusion and tension to persist. Justice delayed is justice denied.

                    6. Dunno what gears are turning in the BN’s head but the ultra vires FedCon can be addressed now by Pakatan. The Three Musketeers of Damansara Utama, Bukit Gasing and Kampung Tunku wanted to move it in the DUN.

                      Well, why doesn’t Pakatan central command allow them to proceed if the federal oppo really cares about the rights of the non-Muslims?

                    7. Helen,

                      re: “Unless the Selangor DUN wants to start the ball rolling by amending Enactment 1988, then it WILL CONTINUE TO BE a state offence.”

                      Wiser to wait for the decision of the Federal Court. It is a matter of constitutionality now. The DUN may amend accordingly as per the FC decision. Question is when FC will adjudicate the case and solve the confusion once and for all?

                    8. re: The Three Musketeers of Damansara Utama, Bukit Gasing and Kampung Tunku wanted to move it in the DUN.

                      The kalimah Allah case is already at the final stage of judicial adjudication. Better to wait for the FC decision.

                      re: Hearing date set for early March.

                      Already delayed once.

                      http://www.mole.my/content/allah-issue-hearing-churchs-application-leave-appeal-rescheduled-march-5

                      This is only hearing for the leave to appeal. Not the merits of the appeal itself.

        2. Urb,

          On the contrary, UMNO must not be silent. why? Because that is not what Malays want.

          Tell me which other party that sympathises with Malays if not UMNO? Malays should understand by now that they cant expect PKR, DAP or MCA to appreciate their legitimate concerns.

          PAS chooses the easy way out by being “unclear” on this Allah saga. On one spectrum, it accuses UMNO of inciting racial feeling. Before ,Malay audience, PAS will vow to defend Islam

          Any Malay based parties , UMNO and PAS, must understand that however attached Malays are to them, Malays can simply find other alternatives.

          PERKASA is just waiting around the corner. And now there is another energetic player, ISMA . Being led by professional, ISMA can give any Malay party a run for its money.

          .

          1. That’s exactly my point. When are the Malays going to realize that PAS and PKR are just too stupid, too egomaniac and too coward to take on this issue head on with DAP. But should UMNO take this issue as the frontrunner, the purpose is lost.

            I’m not saying that UMNO shouldnt show their support for JAIS and to continue protect the sanctity of the Islamic religion and the practices, but please do so wisely.

            I see no wisdom in their action apart from getting some headshot in the paper and TV like some publicity stunt but no follow through and proper planning to genuinely win back support that was lost to PAS and PKR.

            I actually read that Puteri UMNO is organizing a roadshow and holding a conference to better explain the issue to the public and grassroots. This is better. Ordinary people who do not watch TV, read the blog or surf the net and generally not interested in politics, these are the people that need to be informed of the issues plaguing Selangor. Do some real work to explain to these ordinary people. Distribute flyers, whatever, do something!

            Selangor UMNO should not succumb to pressure just to show that they are not coward and genuinely safeguarding the Muslim rights.

  8. Yg Pelik nya.. Kenapa ‘kesalahan’ itu bertumpu pada ‘JAIS’ sahaja sedangkan pihak gereja masih menggunakan ‘nama Allah’. Apakah penggunaan nama ‘Allah’ itu tidak menjadi ‘kesalahan???.. sehinggakan sesetengah ‘Rakyat Malaysia’ terlepas pandang dan hanya fokus kepada kesalahan JAIS.. dan kesalahan hanya Berfokus terutamanya pada orang ISLAM Sahaja.

    Berkenaan MARINA pula.. Kenapa hanya FOKUS pada nasib dan perasaan pihak gereja tapi mengabaikan Perasaan orang melayu dan Islam. Adakah hanya org2 bukan melayu(kristian) saja perlu anda jaga perasaan mereka sedangkan perasaan orang melayu ISLAM anda tak pedulikan. ( reality : umno, kerajaan, (melayu) selalu saja SALAH.. Dan bagi PR pula selalu BENAR ).. fakta inilah yg perlu kita Dedahkan sebaliknya.

    Perlu ada 1 atau 2 media dari kerajaan yg boleh menyebarkan berita-berita dari pihak kerajaan. Dengan kata lain.. Media kerajaan BN(English) vs malaysiakini. Jadi rakyat malaysia akan tahu perkara2 yg diputarbelit oleh pihak pembangkang..

    1. DAP just wants to be in power. Like Tun said they want both the political and economic power. They will stop at nothing until they fulfil their objective.

      Marina, she hates umno – who knows – dap may have promised her a post – to spite Tun ( their greatest enemy)

      The selangor malay muslims that voted pakatan are the ones that need to open their eyes, ears and anything else in order to see reality. They are willing to sacrifice everything their forefathers had fought to keep. I feel so sad the malays are so easily influenced by dap. Pas – tgna, hadi – useless ulamaks who put politics ahead of islam. Why call them ulamak? They are the real ularmaks.tapi pengikut2 taksub so what tgna say is the gospel truth.

      Dr Azri another disgruntled ex mufti. Now is revenge so he has taken the role of judge and jury. He too has lost direction and needs to be put right.

      No matter how or what the present government does or says will not stick. Whatever form of disseminating the truth will not get the light of day.

      We need Tun Mahathir to help find the solution.

  9. Elok Umat Islam / Melayu beralah sahaja habis cerita, kerana Umat Islam / Melayu Malaysia kelihatan terlalu lemah untok berbuat apa-apa.

    Lambang kekuatan Melayu terletak kapada kedaulatan Sultan-Sultan nya, tetapi sekarang titah sultan telah dipertikaikan dan diperlekehkan. Kalau dizaman kesultanan dahulu engkar titah Sultan hukumnya buang negeri.

    Apa ada lagi pada Melayu, bangsa dihina, ugama dipersenda, Sultan pon diperlekehkan.

    1. re: “Apa ada lagi pada Melayu, bangsa dihina, ugama dipersenda, Sultan pon diperlekehkan.”

      Jangan kata PM pun boleh dipecat konsultan.

      1. They must really look down on our PM deep down inside and it is an office secret, suddenly, WHAM! terlepas cakap…

        1. Yes, the Chinese and I’m-not-Indian(s) loathe him. You know what their nickname for him is, right?

    2. You pun tau cakap ‘Kalau dizaman kesultanan dahulu engkar titah Sultan hukumnya buang negeri.’ Sekarang zaman lain. Kuasa Sultan dibatas oleh undang-undang. Sultan telah dilucutkan kekebalan, boleh disaman, sekadar menjadi formaliti dalam pentadbiran negeri dan kuasa tidak memperkenankan undang-undang telah menjadi kuasa menangguhkan untuk 30 hari sahaja.

      Salah siapa?

      1. ….yek jugak…! Salah siapa…? Seperti meludah ke langit…., nanti ludahan dan kahaq akan masuk semula melalui lubang hidup dan terus sesak nafas, lemas, bungkam serta kaku lalu gojol….!

  10. When the religions enactment was formed in selangor in 1988.. anwar ibrahim was DPM or in UMNO and probably pushed for the enactment as he was a ayatoollah Islam is supeme back them…. it was a reason mahathir brought he in, to make the government islamic as to obliterate the PAS support base…. this act has come back to haunt.

    Najib bit ironically may give a blow to pakatoon Islamic image and with DAP writhing to abolish it, would flare up the siege mentality of the muslims in selangor who obviously despise the puckyam Allah issue that have made the muslim malays look bad internationally.

    No wonder the convicted sodomite Anwar Ibrahim is quiet.. now he has to try hard to convince his delusional non Malay supporters that he reads mengzhi, confucius and shakespeare when he is not dreaming about boys.

          1. LOL. I copied the word ‘holistic’ from the political establlishment because I found these two words, ‘ Renaissance’ and ‘ holistic ‘ were always paired together, like ‘ holistic Renaissance ‘. Some people like to use such words to impress.

            1. Because the word ‘ Renaissance’ itself is very restrictive in nature to a peculiar subject of interest, so those goons must exaggerate it through superlative i.e making it sounds bombastic e.g. adjunct professor sounds cleverer than part time professor.

    1. Forrescat,

      The biggest mistake Tun made was giving Anwar a “royal ” treatment in UMNO.

      But it was not Anwar who pushed for the legislation. Remember the wisdom of those crafted the Constitution and those contributing to the constitution too. A clause was inserted and it defines Malays as Muslims. this is the only country that defines a race by religion.

      And they( meaning those who gave feedback during creation of Constitution) cleverly put Islam as strictly on Malay ruler’s jurisdiction, thereby preventing it from posibility of being abused by non Muslim politicians.

      The enactment in 1988 was possible due to wisdom of the government then( meaning UMNO led). Imagine if there is no such ruling. Preachers will have a field day using all terminology so characteristics of islam IN ORDER TO GAIN CONVERT.

      1. SA,

        Re: Preachers will have a field day using all terminology so characteristics of islam IN ORDER TO GAIN CONVERT.

        No doubt that is an offence. On the other hand, using Islamic terminologies not for the purpose of gaining convert is not an offence.

        1. ‘On the other hand, using Islamic terminologies not for the purpose of gaining convert is not an offence.’

          Yes it is!

          According Tan Sri Abu Talib Othman, who was the chief legal adviser to the government for 13 years from 1980.

          ‘It has the effect of a binding precedent and all have to respect that decision, whether you agree or disagree,’

          http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/allah-decision-binding-on-all-malaysians-says-retired-ag-abu-talib

  11. Syornya agar diminta “pertolongan orang luar” / “pakar-pakar agama antarabangsa menjadi pengantarabangsa then Najib will love to do that. Just create another Pemadu lead by an International Religious council paid in billions.

    Many Sem Malays don’t agreed Christian used Allah name as their God while many Christian probably confused to change their God or is it Holly Father? to Allah as Jesus will be Son of Allah or Jesus Anak Allah or Jesus anak lelaki Alah or Jesus anak kepada Allah? or will they address it as Jesus bin Allah?

    Or should Jesus change to ISA? and Isa anak Allah and so on? What about Mary? I’m confused. Be careful what we wish for. As Allah Maha Besar

      1. Won’t be surprised if they suggested the issue be brought to the international Court of Justice!

      2. I think it was satd who recently pointed out that actually they’ve been ping-ponging back and forth many times between using “Yesus Kristus” and “Isa Al Masih” in different versions of their Malay bible. The point being that if they can change what they call the Son of God so easily, then why not God?

        As for Mary, there are churches in East Malaysia called “Rumah Bonda Allah”.

  12. Won’t be surprised if they suggested the issue be brought to the international Court of Justice!

    1. MCA owns The J-Star. So what is Umno going to do about the MCA?

      The J-Star and MCA have criticized Utusan but Umno has not criticized The J-Star over all the backstabbing.

  13. Nobody is interested in the root of the problem, which is conversion & proselytisation. Both wants it. The battle for the 35 words are not about rights, but advantage.

  14. Why the Christians strngly want to use “Allah”

    “Tuhan” is the proper word to use.

    It’s universal……. alas they have an ulterior motive.

  15. |

    Catholics should not use the word Allah

    when used as a translation for the word god.

    The Islam concept of god is not the same as

    what catholics refer to as god.

    Look at the way the Bible refers to God-

    ‘ In the name of Our father, The Son and The Holy Ghost….’

    In effect catholics have 3 gods- the Father, the Son [Jesus]

    and the Holy Ghost. In Islam there is only 1 god =Allah.

    See the video Surah 116 –

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=quran-surah+
    ikhlas&docid=4925366655584516&mid=
    0C212F466D86AD945D420C212F466D86AD945D42&view=detail
    &FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=
    C33C9D022A256442614DC33C9D022A256442614D

    While Unitarian Christians would have the same single

    God concept of Allah and Jesus as a Prophet, the catholics

    have a 3 component god . And though Pakiam the would like

    to misled the malaysian people by saying that it had always

    been an article of the catholic faith that the catholics

    have 1 god . In effect Pakiam said catholic gods :The Father

    + The Son + The Holy Ghost = 1+1+1 =1 God . The 3-in-1 concept

    is not consistent with the catholic guideline of having 3-

    component god. If Pakiam insists that his god is 1, then

    he is saying that the catholics and the Unitarians are having

    the same concept! That is heretical by catholic dictat!

    Mistranslation -The style of the Catholics
    ——————————————

    It was reported that catholics in attempting

    to attract Indians to catholicism is adopting

    hindu deity Mariamah as Mother Mariam [Jesus

    Mother]. In the history of England catholics have

    had a brutal past, involving in murders and

    treachery. Finally Lord Walsingham put a

    stop to all the treachery by killing all

    the known catholics involved in the treachery.

    See the movies: Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth 11

    A look at the Bahasa Malaysia translation shows

    that the catholics carelessly [perhaps with

    an underlying sinister motive] translates

    The Farher [Bapa Allah] , The Son [Anak ..] and

    The Holy Ghost [ Roh Qudus]

    Surah Ikhlas clearly states that Allah has no son

    and none is equal to Him. So the translation is

    unacceptable to muslims. Of course if Catholics want

    to have 1 god just like the Unitarians, there can be no

    objection to the use of Allah as god!

    Observe in Bahasa, Roh is an attribute of man whose life

    is finite. Jesus lived for x number of years. Roh [life]

    is given when a baby appears in the womb, and is taken

    when a man dies. Literal translation of Holy Ghost would

    most likely be Pontianak Suci. taking into consideration

    the manner of Jesus appearing after his ‘death’ as described

    by Saul. The phrase Roh Quddus [arabic phrase] appeared in

    surah al-maidah in the Quran and it refers to Angel Jibril [Gabriel]

    Why does the catholic got their translation of English into

    Bahasa Indonesia all mixed up and not represent the meaning of

    the phrase or word?

    My take is that the translators wanted to intentionally

    confuse/misled whoever read the Bahasa bible- just like using Mariamah [hindu deity]

    as a translation for Mariam [Jesus’s mother]

    The careless translation [ with evil intention] is not

    a thing that muslims in malaysia would view as simply bad translation’

    but an affront to our sense and sensiblities. No doubt the chinese and

    indians in malaysia had always taken for granted our [melayus] relaxed and simple

    give and take attitude as a sign that they can push for whatever

    unreasonable demands . Generally the chinese are catholic-newbies and hardly understand

    christian dictats well enough to discuss concepts of trinity or even of god!.

    Most chinese took up christianity whilst at the university and prided themselves in

    having ‘glamorous’ christian names like June instead of Wong Ping Gan.

    Chinese and Indians malaysia treat national laws contemptuosly as treat laws as

    suggestions rather than an order that they need to obey.

    Just drive around

    Ipoh Road -see how hundreds of chinese and indian routinely break traffic laws by

    the minute !

    In Angola , catholic inspired leaders have destroyed

    mosques and prohibited the people from practising Islam.

    Are there any utterance of protest from the head

    of the catholic church in Rome and catholics

    around the world?

    Zilch !

    Yet , with all the concessions given to

    the catholics to freely build churches and

    freedom to remit tithes and collection funds

    to Rome, Bangkok [SEA catholic control region]

    or the Phillipines unhindered, the catholics

    in Malaysia are an ungrateful lot!

    #

    #

    1. re: “Most chinese took up christianity whilst at the university and prided themselves in having ‘glamorous’ christian names like”

      Hannah Yeoh converted when she was 19.

  16. Apa ke crisisnya? The crisis now is that the evangelist would not listen to reasons. Dia orang tu yang duk buat kecoh. God dalam melayu is tuhan simple. If you just accept that fact and use tuhan kan habis cerita. No more crisis.

    But alas, kalau tak buat hal, tak nama evangelist kan?

    1. Tepat sekali. God in Bahasa Melayu ialah Tuhan. Kalau Bahasa Melayu tak bengap, tentu tak jadi masalah besar sampai nak babitkan campur tangan luar bagai!!!

      BODOH TAK MAHU MENGAKU. SOMBONG PULAK TU!

      Macam mana orang Muslim tak ragu-ragu bila God yang bermaksud Tuhan nak did gantikan nama dengan Allah? Kat situ pun orang Muslim dah boleh hidu. Diam2 ubi berisi

  17. Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica

    Leviticus 24:16

    …anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.

    Do they really read the bible?.
    Or Me? Tor For?

  18. Dear Helen,

    1. What is the Vatican’s view on usage of the word “Allah”?

    2. Why didn’t the Malaysian Catholic church consult the Vatican on the use of the word “Allah”?

    3. If Jesus is the son of God, then who is God’s father (Jesus’ grandfather) and what is his name? – hehe

    4. All along the Arabs have been attacked and criticised for so many things (not united, filthy rich, no equal rights for women, uncivilised, etc) but when it comes to the usage of the word “Allah”, they find it okay to use the word because it has been used for centuries by all Arabs (muslims and non-muslims). Who is the hypocrite?

    5. All over the world, Christianity has become less and less relevant, what more in a world that has become more liberal and plural. The Christians will do everything possible to get people back to their faith, including changing God’s law to suit the human wants. Thus we have for example, recognition for LGBT’s and gay marriages. I guess in Malaysia, the scenario is similar. Thus this issue of the usage of the word “Allah”.

    6. I hate to see Christians and other non-Muslims swear in the name of ALLAH in public because it sound so shallow and not from the heart.

    1. Don’t believe everthing that you read there, they have their own agenda.

      Or Me? Tor For?

      1. Shad Saleem Faruqi also mentions:

        1. he is ‘appalled at the profane action by the Selangor Islamic Affairs Department (Jais) of entering the premises of the Bible Society of Malaysia and seizing 331 copies of the Bible in the Malay and Iban languages’.

        2. the raid violated several provisions of the Federal Constitution

        3. that imposing a criminal liability on non-Muslims cannot be enforced in the state syariah courts

        4. Jais should file a police report and leave it to the police and federal prosecutors.

        5. The ‘Enactment in question is constitutionally objectionable under Article 10 (free speech) because it does not link the use of the banned words to threats to peace and harmony in Article 3(1) or to security and public order in Article 10(2)(a)’.

        6. SUHAKAM or the NUCC must seek to build bridges

        1. Shad Saleem Faruqi also mentions;

          ‘The Malays conceded a great deal. They conceded citizenship to the non-Malays. That is very generous. I went to the Maldives to draft their constitution. There, unless you are a Muslim you can’t get citizenship.

          Malays also conceded cultural and linguistic diversity. We allow people to have their own names according to their culture. In Indonesia you can’t. In Thailand, Japan, and South Korea, there’s a great deal of emphasis on monoculture.

          The fact that you have in this country Chinese and Tamil schools too is remarkable. The Chinese and Tamil schools are actually not protected under the constitution. The constitution only permits the right to learn the language but doesn’t give you the right to learn in the language. There’s a difference. Non-Malays conceded an electoral system with the rural weightage, they conceded the fact that there would be Islam, Malay language, Malay special position and that the royalty is all Malay.’

          But this you guys, ever listen?

          1. re: “But this you guys, ever listen?”

            Since they’re perpetually hysterical (raving, ranting, insulting, and slandering), there is no quiet moment for them to hear.

  19. I’m having a debate with the Christians. They again amended Wikipedia on Christianity in malaysia. Do you have a previous snapshot? I can’t locate where I kept it.

  20. Why are Christians unsure of what name to address their God?

    Islam makes it so CLEAR to all its followers all over the world; Mengucap dua kalimah syahadah merupakan rukun pertama di dalam Rukun Islam

    LA ILA HA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH.

    Tak kira apa bangsa, penganut Mazhab apa, hang raja ke hamba ke, dimana saja kita berada we recite the same words, tak tokok tak tambah.

    Kesian juga bila lihat these newly converted Christians in Malaysia. Not united and so confused among themselves, nak address the name of their common God pun sampai kena naik turun Mahkamah. Malaysian courts to help determine the name of their God?

    One day a 4yr old Christian kindergarten boy may quiz his teacher. “Teacher, teacher, you know or not, my grandfather gave me my name. They say the Malaysian Court gave our God his name? Is the Malaysian Court our God’s grandfather?”

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