Berita semalam di Wall Street Journal bertajuk ‘Between God and Allah: Malaysia tries to stop Christians using the Bahasa word for God’
WSJ memaparkan gambar di bawah diringi caption berbunyi, “Malaysian Muslim activists shout slogans during a rally after Malaysian Islamic authorities seized hundreds of Bibles from a Christian group over the use of the word “Allah” in Klang, outside Kuala Lumpur on January 5″.
Yahoo! News juga turut memuatkan gambar yang dirakam di acara yang sama, iaitu tunjuk perasaan terhadap gereja yang dikunjungi Marina Mahathir di Klang pada tempoh hari (5 Jan).
Gambar wanita-wanita sedang berdoa (bawah) disiarkan hari ini bersama rencana ‘WSJ to Malaysia: Drop sedition probe against priest‘.
WSJ dan Yahoo! adalah agensi media yang mencapai audien antarabangsa. Bermakna pembaca di seluruh pelosok dunia akan dapat melihat bahawa aktivis Islam tanahair rata-rata terdiri kaum Hawa.
Pada kacamata orang luar, hanya muslimah di Malaysia sahaja yang sanggup memperjuangkan kesucian perkataan Allah.
Pemuda “pahlawan” PPTA tidak pun turun padang pada pagi Ahad (5 Jan).
Semalam awal (4 Jan), Ketua Pemuda Umno telah mentweet sokongannya bagi tuntutan Puan Speaker yang mahukan MB menggantung pegawai Jais bertanggungjawab mengarah serbuan itu ke atas Bible Society – lihat screenshot bawah.
(198 patah perkataan)
Anda mungkin berminat membaca:
Helen Ang 
Bukan Khairy saja. Ketua-ketua dia pun takdak yang so kong Jais.
” Pada kacamata orang luar, hanya muslimah di Malaysia sahaja yang sanggup memperjuangkan kesucian perkataan Allah.”
You are wrong! This issue is the joke of the world. West Malaysia and east Malaysia have different set of ruling. What a real stupid joke ! LOL!!!
The 10-point arrangement is a political solution, don’t you think?
Can you suggest some other way to resolve the Christian claim?
Re. This issue is the joke of the world.
You meant like when Cina DAP bombarding Obama’s FB about blackout after PRU13?
If you this is the international joke, what about the news of Muslim woman in France charged in court for wearing Burqa? International news work and thrive on sensationalism.
You knowledge of the world is rather limited, perhaps you had been reading too much MK, MI, etc. Which is not an usual trait of a Dapster.
Having different sets of laws in the same country is nothing new. The US each state can have their own laws. Some allows same sex marriages while others criminalize them.
By having the 10-points solution helps the situation rather than making it worse. I know PR folks hate the solution since it considerably weakens their arguments on Allah issue in Sabah and Sarawak. As such that people like you keep harping on it is unsurprising.
Malaysia has vernacular schools and jenis kebangsaan school, different sets of schooling.
Malaysia has two sets of law, civil law and syariah law, different sets of law.
So, what’s the big deal about that?
Segala usaha JJ untuk menarik President Obama dan pelabur American goes down the drain. Effort Ah Jib Gor Kangkong to abolish ISA untuk ambil hati Amerika pun sia sekarang.
This is only chicken feet issue to them, given any other choice, the US would rather choose Malaysia as compared to Thailand (see what happen to them now), Indonesia (with militant and natural catastrophic issues), Vietnam (high inflation and vague foreign investment policy) or Singapore (High operations cost).
You should read more about International business topic. The only thing that will bring this country down is the threat and constant bickering of her ungrateful citizen particularly the Cina DAP. The words now if you care to read even their Singapore cousins have started to hate the Malaysian Chinese PR there.
Is that telling what kind of people are they i.e. the Cina DAP Malaysia?
re: “The only thing that will bring this country down is the threat and constant bickering of her ungrateful citizen particularly the Cina DAP.”
Nuisance value, yes. But how will the “constant bickering” bring down the country?
Re. the “constant bickering”
Haven’t you forgotten the issues e.g. Allah, Blackout, BERSIH, etc. that may seems small and intermittent but if not swiftly address leads to racial, religious or political clash like that in Thailand now. It is simmering….
As Acik-Ducik likes to often gloat, there were less than 100 protesters against the Church of Our Lady of Lourdes in Klang on Jan 5.
And today as we can see from the WSJ and Yahoo! photos, the majority of those 100 protesters were women.
So if the Umno men are staying at home watching the Arsenal game, who is gonna take to the streets to clash? Methinks Umno will just roll over like a fat cat and expose its tummy to be tickled.
Re. And today as we can see from the WSJ and Yahoo! photos, the majority of those 100 protesters were women.
KUDOS to them it is their JIHAD
Re. So if the Umno men
Busy eating Kangkung.
Gloat? I am merely pointing out a fact.
People are more interested in the impending rise in staple items and the increasing cost of living. Bread and butter issues. That is why on Dec 31, we had over ten thousand people taking to the streets to voice their displeasure to the government’s handling of the economy. The edicts and threats of the Mufti of Perak could not even stop them.
That is also why Najib has become the butt of jokes in these past few days over his ‘kangkong’ speech. Everytime I check my Facebook main page, there are at least three kangkong-related jokes from friends of all races…
re: “we had over ten thousand people taking to the streets”
As usual, the Dapsters like to inflate numbers.
They are paid protesters. Just like in Indonesia and New Zealand. In Jakarta there are many companies that run “Protester for Hired”. Let’s say today an NGO wants to launch a protest like “Muslims against the US ….”, thus those hired protesters will wear tudung or skull cap based on the team. It used to be RM5 per day plus nasi bungkus.
This Acik-Ducik is so Bodoh and Dungu not knowing that most of the the Malay protesters are paid as low as RM50 to as high as RM200 depending on the number of crowd. That is why many of the time you see they bring all their children along (which is sick and pathetic). PAS and PKR have been doing that for quite sometimes actually.
ROTFL…I have read and seen that long ago, many in fact such picture and video. They are tricked by the PAKATAN lackey not knowing the real reason.
Janganlah BODOH sangat that was “So Yesterday News”.
Those are paid foreign-workers-cum-protesters from Umno during the Bersih protests.
http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/protesters-malaysia-join-new-year-revelry
“Earlier, an estimated 10,000 demonstrators from several groups led by Gerakan Turun Kos Sara Hidup (Movement to Lower Cost of Living, or Turun) converged on the iconic field from three meeting points – Sogo Shopping Complex in Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman, Pasar Seni and Masjid Jamek.”
LOL. Maybe LOL is right in his description of how gullible you are.
The article you cited is headlined ‘Protesters in Malaysia join in New Year revelry’.
Operative words – “join in New Year revelry”
Meaning the protestors blended into the crowd who were at Dataran to celebrate the New Year, listen to the free concert and watch the fireworks — the latter two activities which the protest by TURUN folks caused to be cancelled and depriving the “revellers” of their entertainment.
Sheeesh. You think if the protest had been held on Dec 30 or Jan 2 there would have been that many people on the streets?
Timing it on New Year’s eve is just a ploy that the sneaky oppo people employ, like how the pollies hold their ceramah near the pasar malam to make as if it’s their own crowd.
As usual, taking credit or riding on others back to “exaggerate” their glory.
They always like to use the term “WE” while in fact in many or all of the time they are busy ‘Makan Kuaci” and watching TV at home.
“Operative words – “join in New Year revelry”
Meaning the protestors blended into the crowd who were at Dataran to c…”
You overlooked the paragraph:
‘Earlier, an estimated 10,000 demonstraters from several groups led by Gerakan Turun Kos Sara Hidup (Turun) converged on the iconic field from three meeting points…’
The operative word: “Earlier”
This meant around 10,000 demonstrators from three meeting points had met up at Dataran Merdeka before the festivities.
Even a Form Two student can understand the article.
TURUN is just another sheep’s skin for PR supporters to get on the streets to display their rowdy behaviour – too bad these foreigners are too dumb to see that. After BERSIH it is TURUN. After TURUN there’ll be another one.
10,000 compare to millions that stay at home.. that’s figure enough to impress AC-DC? wow!! how stunning you are..
If fifty to a hundred pro-government protesters gathered, you will say they represent the voice of the citizens.
Re: you will say they represent the voice of the citizens.
Nope.. I’m not in favour of street demonstration.. even the police report that sometime even reaching hundred by pro government also I’m considering as wasting time..
“Constant bickering” by this apek LKS and his followers are legendary.
“Chinese as 3rd class citizen”;”Apartheid in Malaysia”;object everything that TDM build including PLUS highway; KLCC; KLIA; Penang Bridge; Putrajaya etc.
Just imagine if the government then listened to his bickering; Malaysia will be a miserable place to live in like Phillipines.
Actually the United States, Australia, Europe, and other nations see the far right race-supremacist groups such as Perkasa and the pro-Mahathir and pro-ultra camp in Umno as hindrances to reform and a progressive nation.
Actually they see anything wrt Islam and anything pro the natives as the far right race-supremacist groups.
That is why the Arab Spring, War in Iraq, Afghanistan are happening. They have been trying to extend their claw here through various demo and protest back by them e.g. BERSIH through NED, but fail.
I am not surprise if what is happening in Thailand now is also their doing.
Only the Dungu who are to blinded to the see truth.
You should study more about USA..
I have lived and worked in the United States before and I have a lot of American friends. To summarize their views, they see the the conservatives as regressive.
Me too.. and for me, they are opportunist.. they only see and care about their wealth.. they even can accept me & family as their neighbour.. of course as long as I’m not create a mess like evangalista..
I have been to the moon and back!
Alfie,
“sekerat belut sekerat ular’.
L ain kali kalau nak gunakan Bahasa melayu, gunakan kesemuanya. Begitu juga jika mahu gunakan Bahasa inggeris.
Pasal kritikan dari uSA tu, tak usah lah bimbang. Malaysia kan diperintah oleh orang Islam. Jadi sudah tentu pada mereka mestilah buruk belaka.
Dan pasal Oba ma ni, dia pun banyak masalah. Dia tak ada masa untuk tahu semua ni. Negeri dia pun banyak hutang sampai lebih 1 trillion USD.
Re. Negeri dia pun banyak hutang sampai lebih 1 trillion USD.
The World’s Largest Debtor Governments, 2013
“The United States ranks 10th on the list, with debt that is 87% of its GDP. But it has the most debt of any country in absolute terms, an estimated $14.6 trillion in general government net debt, double the debt of second-place Japan. U.S. debt has grown $10 trillion in the last decade.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2013/11/08/worlds-largest-debtor-governments-2013/
in fact the Arab Islamic countries decide to sell oil in dollar. thus usa actually use the oil free because they just need to print the money. best of all the money remain in USA banks and zionist back because even the Arab Muslim countries don’t trust Thierry own bank. They also use this oil moneyto buy trillions of military equipment to kill each other and money goes back to USA.
Re. the Arab Muslim countries don’t trust Thierry own bank
Please provide proof.
Re. They also use this oil moneyto buy trillions of military equipment to kill each other and money goes back to USA.
Hopefully, soon they will us to kill people like you.
That’s why I said you promote violence based on your version of Islam. You are definitely insulting your own religion.
This just show that you are ignorant of economy. us dollar is world reserve currency, USA may be having debt in trillions but they do not need to pay back because they are the one who print us dollar and the world which use this currency will pay back through depreciation of us dollar.
Malaysian this shows that you are so super STUPIDEST.
Re. us dollar is world reserve currency,
They are not. They the most traded currency in the world as most export and import are based on USD apart from Euro, JPY, GBP and SGD.
Re. USA may be having debt in trillions but they do not need to pay back
ROTFL… BODOH punya statement
Re. because they are the one who print us dollar
This is call monetary easing which the long will become unsustainable to them and the rest of the world is so concern about this now.
Re. and the world which use this currency will pay back through depreciation of us dollar.
How come they owe other country and other country have to pay them back instead? What is the logic.
Please read about Chinese Currency Manipulation and how it effect the US.
If Currency Manipulation Is So Great for Exports, Why Don’t We Do It?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/10/china_currency_manipulation_how_does_it_harm_the_u_s_and_what_can_we_do.html
LOL
This malaysian only throw a statement that being prepare by others.. that why we couldn’t expect he/she will answer us..
Obviously they assume that malay are too stupid that they get confused with one word. In order to stop the confusion umno malay choose to suppress and bully the Christian. The French case is not due to religion issue but security because if everyone wear burqa, they can’t check the identity of the person. So is burqa a Muslim requirement? if yes than malaysia is still not Islamic enough and souls set up rules to force all women wear burqa.
Re. Obviously they assume that malay are too stupid that they get confused with one word.
The Malay maybe stupid to you but at least they know who their true and only god is i.e. Allah and not willing to trade with other religion.
It is even Stupidest for people who still want keep changing their god name while the Pope in Vatican City has never done so.
malaysian,
It is because thE Malays are not stupid that we insist Christians not using the word “Allah’. as we know the real motive; the spread of christianity to Malays who are Muslims
Re: as we know the real motive; the spread of christianity to Malays who are Muslims
Please go ahead and lodge police report. We have laws to deal with proselytizers that used the Allah word to convert Muslims. For Christians that used the Allah word without proselytisation, this is not an offence.
Asus,
Funny is it not. They refuse integration, they insist on separate school system, they refuse to speak in Bahasa. Yet they are so adamant in using “Allah’.
I have yet to find the word “allah” in Bible, old or King james version.
So, actually Islam and Catholic Christian (not other denomination) are on collision course.
re: “So, actually Islam and Catholic Christian (not other denomination) are on collision course.”
Not just Catholics but the other denominations too. See, http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/were-united-with-our-catholic-brethren-in-fight-to-use-allah-say-christian
“Funny is it not. They refuse integration, they insist on separate school system, they refuse to speak in Bahasa.”
The Christians who are using ‘Allah’ are the Bumiputera Christians. They speak Bahasa Melayu. Their political and religious leaders such as James Masing, Bolly Lapok, Herman Shastri, and Bernard Dompok have supported the right of their people to use the word.
In the first place, get the spelling of their names correct, will ya? It’s HermEn Shastri. And what makes you think that he is a religious leader of the Sabah and Sarawak natives?
Hermen Shastri has worked extensively with the Orang Asli Christian communities and has strong ties with them. That however would not make him their religious leader, so I stand corrected in that aspect.
Orang Asli communities are in the peninsula. You lumped him with the Sabahans and Sarawakians.
From my quote:
“The Christians who are using ‘Allah’ are the Bumiputera Christians”
Where does it say officially anywhere that Orang Asli are bumiputera?
The wording of the Constitution is that the “special position” pertains to Malays and “the natives of Sabah and Sarawak”.
“Where does it say officially anywhere that Orang Asli are bumiputera?
The wording of the Constitution is that the “special position” pertains to Malays and “the natives of Sabah and Sarawak”.”
Here is the text of the Constitution of Malaysia.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Malaysia
There is no mention of ‘Bumiputera’ in it. It does specifically mention ‘aboriginal’, or the Orang Asli.
Please highlight what/where is the “Special Position” of the aborigines. The Special Position of the Malays and Sabah-Sarawak natives are explicitly stated in Article 153.
And please note that aborigine is pribumi. I’m aware that “Bumiputera” is not mentioned. In fact, I’ve pointed this out to other readers here.
“Please highlight what/where is the “Special Position” of the aborigines. The Special Position of the Malays and Sabah-Sarawak natives are explicitly stated in Article 153.”
The Constitution does not mention a special position for aborigines but Article 8 mentions aboriginal interests.
Article 8
‘(c) any provision for the protection, wellbeing or advancement of the aboriginal peoples of the Malay Peninsula (including the reservation of land) or the reservation to aborigines of a reasonable proportion of suitable positions in the public service;’
The word ‘Bumiputera’, a term not mentioned in the Constitution, also encompasses cultural-ethnic groups that are non-Malay and non-natives of Sabah and Sarawak. One example are the Siamese Malaysians.
There are entities that include the Orang Asli under the Bumiputera label. For example, Amanah Saham Nasional:
http://www.asnb.com.my/english/eligibility.htm
“Based on Deed of the Funds and as stated in Federal Constitution, Bumiputera was referred to Malay, Native of Sabah & Sarawak and an Aborigine.”
The government’s official website mentions that the Bumiputera status of Orang Asli is varied between states:
https://www.malaysia.gov.my/en/about-malaysia?subCatId=3208950&type=2&categoryId=3208945
“There also exist aboriginal groups in much smaller numbers on the peninsula, where they are collectively known as the Orang Asli. Laws over who gets bumiputra status vary between states.”
re: Siamese as Bumiputera …
That is not written in our Constitution. It is arbitrary, e.g. suka-suka Umno buka keahlian or or suka-suka Najib accepts Pakistani as Bumiputera (he said so in two Umno general assembly speeches).
re: ASN
Pun suka-suka buat. They can buka to Portuguese and maulaf as well. It depends on the Umno mood of the day.
“re: Siamese as Bumiputera …
That is not written in our Constitution.”
Neither is the term ‘Bumiputera’.
It is interesting to know that the term Bumiputera is very arbitrary; it depends upon the decision makers in the government agency, department, state law, and so on.
One government department may recognise a community as Bumiputera while the other may not.
As a possible scenario, Melaka can legally legislate the Portugese, Chitty Peranakan and Baba Nyonya community as Bumiputeras under their state law.
Stick to the Constitution lah. Malays and natives of Sabah and Sarawak are the races enjoying the Special Position.
The Orang Asli fall between two stools. Very unfortunate for them.
“Stick to the Constitution lah. Malays and natives of Sabah and Sarawak are the races enjoying the Special Position.”
Sticking to the Constitution, the term ‘Bumiputera’ is not even mentioned inside it.
As I have pointed out, the Orang Asli are considered as Bumiputera by a number of entities.
Read upthread! You were the one who brought up the word ‘Bumiputera’. On the other hand, I have consistently quoted “special position” and “the natives of Sabah and Sarawak”.
You asked me to show where it says the Orang Asli are Bumiputera, in relation to our discussions. I gave two examples; one from Amanah Saham Nasional Berhad, and another from the government which mentions that some states recognise the Orang Asli as Bumiputera.
The Constitution does not define which races are ‘Bumiputera’, nor mention if Malays or Sabah and Sarawak natives are ‘Bumiputera’. The term ‘Bumiputera’ does not even appear inside our Constitution. We cannot use the Special Position to discuss if the Orang Asli are Bumiputeras.
Obviously you’re required to show evidence that stands up to scrutiny. Policies are not the law. For example, Tekun is a bumiputera programme. It is open partially to Indians. Matriculation is also currently open partially to Indians.
The Chinese however are excluded.
ASN Bhd is a marker but not legally binding in making orang asli ‘bumiputera’ which is a term coined for the political expediency of Umno.
“ASN Bhd is a marker but not legally binding in making orang asli ‘bumiputera’ which is a term coined for the political expediency of Umno.”
It is. For instance, if an Orang Asli trader is denied participation in ASN Berhad on the pretext that Orang Asli are not Bumiputera, contrary to policy, he can take it to court and win. This is if he uses ASN’s policy to support his case.
The same goes for other entities such as government departments and states that consider Aboriginals to be Bumiputera.
Indigenous Peoples and the Right to Participate in
Decision Making in Malaysia
Ramy Bulan, PhD*
Director, Centre for Malaysian Indigenous Studies
University of Malaya, Kuala Lumpur
“Malaysia’s indigenous peoples, the Malays, Natives and Aborigines or Orang Asli, are classified as “bumiputera” meaning “princes or sons of the soil”, a classification that has been used as a basis for affirmative action and policies in their favour, including the reservation of places for them in the civil service.”
An individual, even if he were to win his case against ASN Bhd, does not make it the law of the land.
ADD:
It’s just his personal lawsuit.
“An individual, even if he were to win his case against ASN Bhd, does not make it the law of the land.”
It sets a precedent.
With respect to our original discussion, we were talking if the Orang Asli are Bumiputera when I included the Christian Orang Asli as Bumiputera Christians. They are considered as Bumiputera, or at least many entities do.
A precedent is not law.
Neither does the supreme law, the Constitution, mention ‘Bumiputera’.
Are you dyslexic or what? I’ve already said that the fact that our Constitution does not mention ‘Bumiputera’ has been brought up several times ALREADY – by M.E. – in the blog. Please tell me something I don’t know.
You Dapters, ah, chasing your own tail putar-putar-putar.
There is no need to become hysterical. Look, you asked to show where it says the Orang Asli are Bumiputera. You also mentioned the Special Position in the Constitution, which is a red herring as the Constitution only mentions the Special Position, but not ‘Bumiputera’.
I responded with several pieces of evidence of Orang Asli being considered as Bumiputera, including an academic from Centre for Malaysian Indigenous Studies.
I repeat, with respect to our original discussion, we were talking if the Orang Asli are Bumiputera. Based on the cases I have presented they are considered as Bumiputera, or at least many entities do.
Hysteria is a Dapster trait. Everybody here knows that. And you’re the Dapster, not me.
Of course the Constitution only mentions Special Position and makes no mention of Bumiputera. That is what I’ve been trying to tell you.
Like I said in my previous comment, you’re like a dog chasing its own tail, going round and round. Very amusing to watch.
“Hysteria is a Dapster trait. Everybody here knows that. And you’re the Dapster, not me.”
Yet you are the one breaking into histronics and calling me names when I do not agree with you calling a spade a horse.
“Of course the Constitution only mentions Special Position and makes no mention of Bumiputera. That is what I’ve been trying to tell you.”
That is right. There is no mention of Bumiputera in the Constitution. So, what does it have to do with our debate of whether Orang Asli are Bumiputera?
you’re like a dog chasing its own tail, going round and round. Very amusing to watch.
Yet you posted a photo of yourself on January 8, with the caption ‘I Bite’. ;-)
Now you remember, do you?
Yup, I bite, correct.
You’re the one chasing your own tail round and round. You’re the one who’s claiming that orang asli are bumiputera.
But you’re right to point out that I’m being remiss in calling you a Dapster. I forgot that I said you’ve been promoted to the rank of evangelista already.
“Matriculation is also currently open partially to Indians” ..this is no longer practised. Matriculation was already open to all non Malays including Chinese several years ago. My daughter used to attend Matriculation at Melaka and one of her room mates is a Chinese.
Recently she graduated in Finance from UUM and bulk of her colleagues are Chinese.
I’m aware matriculation is not totally closed to Chinese but the number is small. In a previous discussion with islam1st, the enrolment for year 2004 came up. I’m reproducing the stats below.
The ratio is 330 Chinese against intake of new Mara students 20,575 = 1.6 percent.
A total of 21,650 Mara students took the International Baccalaureate (IB).
That year, the total Mara students were 45,303 altogether (at various levels and in various courses, e.g. German technical programme, skills training, etc). In 2004 also, the intake of new students was 20,575.
A total of 1,718 Mara students were sent overseas and the Mara education expenses were RM594.3 million.
“You’re the one who’s claiming that orang asli are bumiputera.”
That is because they are classified as Bumiputera.
But who are authorized to do so?
There is no classification of ‘bumiputera’ in the constitution. On the other hand, the Special Position is defined and it specifies quotas in x,y,z areas (scholarships, permits, etc) at the discretion of the TDP Agong.
Hence the ‘Special Position’ enabling the benefit of quotas has legal standing and is for the Malays and the natives of Sabah and Sarawak. As I’ve mentioned right from the start, the orang asli are most unfortunately out of the loop.
So what is your point exactly?
Is it that the Orang Asli are not Bumiputera? That point is false, as many entities already categorise them under the Bumiputera umbrella.
Or is it that the term Bumiputera should not legally exist, or something of that sort?
You’re the only one playing the game of chasing your own tail.
“Hence the ‘Special Position’ enabling the benefit of quotas has legal standing and is for the Malays and the natives of Sabah and Sarawak. As I’ve mentioned right from the start, the orang asli are most unfortunately out of the loop.”
Article 8
‘(c) any provision for the protection, wellbeing or advancement of the aboriginal peoples of the Malay Peninsula (including the reservation of land) or the reservation to aborigines of a reasonable proportion of suitable positions in the public service;’
Technically, this also means that the benefit of quotas for Orang Asli will have legal basis under Article 8.
For instance, if I were to make a law that gives more land rights, legal protection, and economic assistance to the Orang Asli it would likely be constitutional.
Hullo, don’t lah putar by copypasting only half the article.
8(c) says:
“This Article DOES NOT invalidate or prohibit – ”
(a) …
(b) …
‘(c) any provision for the protection, wellbeing or advancement of the aboriginal peoples of the Malay Peninsula (including the reservation of land) or the reservation to aborigines of a reasonable proportion of suitable positions in the public service;’
You make it sound as it Article 8(c) provides for the protection of the aboriginal peoples
when it actually says that whatever protection they might previously have had will not be invalidated … (you dyslexic people soooo conveniently overlook portions of sentences).
Therefore to uphold your argument, you have to show that orang asli, by law BEFORE the year 1963, were entitled to privileges xyz. And these privileges which were already given or belonging to the orang asli BEFORE the formation of Malaysia will not be affected or taken away through the Malaysia Act 1963 coming into force. That is what the constitution says.
PS. There is some customary native land provision (like the Tanah Rizab orang Melayu) for the orang asli but I’m not sure what year it is.
Re. Hullo, don’t lah putar by copypasting only half the article.
Sabar ajelah kan….
Tapi Dapsters terlalu kerap mencabar kesabaran. Kian hari kian benteng kesabaran terhakis.
“Hullo, don’t lah putar by copypasting only half the article.
8(c) says:
“This Article DOES NOT invalidate or prohibit – ”
(a) …
(b) …
‘(c) any provision for the protection, wellbeing or advancement of the aboriginal peoples…”
Exactly to what I was saying. So if I as a lawmaker were to draft that law as above-mentioned for greater legal protection of the Orang Asli, it would be Constitutional and not prohibited.
“when it actually says that whatever protection they might previously have had will not be invalidated. (edited to remove helenist hysterics). Therefore to uphold your argument, you have to show that orang asli, by law BEFORE the year 1963, were entitled to privileges xyz.”
If that is the case, then it would say “(c) any previous or past provision for the protection, wellbeing..” or something to that effect.
Show me where does Article 8 say that future legal provisions for the Orang Asli do not count.
“You’re the only one playing the game of chasing your own tail.”
You posted a photo of yourself on January 8. So it is you who has the tail, and is now chasing it.
I see you are avoiding an answer to whether the Orang Asli are considered Bumiputera, or if the Bumiputera term should not legally exist. Well, well.
“Yup, I bite, correct.”
You bite the red herrings that you toss around. ;-)
re: “edited to remove helenist hysterics”
I originally said “you dyslexic people soooo conveniently overlook portions of sentences” which is a plain fact. You had deliberately left out a very important clause.
Now you “edit” my rejoinder to obscure this bit where I pointed out you had overlooked to include the pertinent clause. Now the other readers can see how you ‘evangelistas’ (since I promised to stop calling you a Dapster) play the game.
re: “Show me where does Article 8 say that future legal provisions for the Orang Asli do not count.”
Show me where in the Constitution the other legal provisions for the orang asli are apart from Article 8.
re: “I see you are avoiding an answer to whether the Orang Asli are considered Bumiputera, or if the Bumiputera term should not legally exist. Well, well.”
My opinion carries no weight. I’m not Lord Reid or Tun Suffian.
I understand. What I meant “SABAR AJELAH KAN”, as in sigh….
“I originally said “you dyslexic people soooo conveniently overlook portions of sentences” which is a plain fact. You had deliberately left out a very important clause.
Now you “edit” my rejoinder to obscure this bit where I pointed out you had overlooked to include the pertinent clause. Now …blah blah blah…”
How does your hysterical ad-hominem attacks, which I did not include, add to the debate? You are splitting hairs and getting more worked up over that.
I did not disregard the preceding portions before Article 8. It does not contradict what I have put forth.
So, show us where does Article 8 say that future legal provisions for the Orang Asli do not count, or that (c) only applies to past provisions, as you claim. If you cannot answer, that is fine then.
“Show me where in the Constitution the other legal provisions for the orang asli are apart from Article 8.”
As I said, Article 8-5(c) already covers the legal provision in regard to the Orang Asli. You are trying to paddle around in circles here.
re: “Now you ‘edit’ my rejoinder to obscure this bit where I pointed out you had overlooked to include the pertinent clause. Now …blah blah blah…”
I did not say “blah blah blah”. You’re the one suffering verbal diarrhea.
re: “How does your hysterical ad-hominem attacks, which I did not include, add to the debate?”
Factually pointing out that you had “edited” the part where I highlighted how you deliberately omitted to copypaste (half of) the cited clause is not “hysterical” and nor is it “ad hominem”.
You are displaying your perpetual hysteria to all and sundry, and just confirming what they already know about delusional DAP supporters (I’m again avoiding calling you a D*****r).
re: “So, show us where does Article 8 say that future legal provisions for the Orang Asli do not count, or that (c) only applies to past provisions, as you claim.”
So, show us where the Constitution speaks about any future legal provisions?
As for “(c) only applies to past provisions, as you claim”, you’re dyslexia is showing again. That’s why lah, when you deliberately leave out half the sentence, then your understanding is half past six. The key words are “does not invalidate”.
NOTE:
Dapsters scream that other people are “racist”. Now you’re screaming that I’m hysterical.
Tsk, tsk, tsk Acik Ducik. You just can’t get away from your origins, can you?
“I did not say “blah blah blah”. You’re the one suffering verbal diarrhea.”
I rest my case that you are splitting at hairs.
“re: “How does your hysterical ad-hominem attacks, which I did not include, add to the debate?”
Factually pointing out that you had “edited” the part where I highlighted how you deliberately omitted to copypaste (half of) the cited clause is not “hysterical” and nor is it “ad hominem”.”
Your reaction of calling people ‘dyslexic’, etc. is an example of being hysterical and ad-hominem. The core point is that the part of Article 8 which I did not paste, does not contradict what I put forth.
“re: “So, show us where does Article 8 say that future legal provisions for the Orang Asli do not count, or that (c) only applies to past provisions, as you claim.”
“So, show us where the Constitution speaks about any future legal provisions?”
I take it that you could not find any proof to back your claim that it is limited to past provisions. Never mind.
As for “(c) only applies to past provisions, as you claim”, you’re dyslexia is showing again. That’s why lah, when you deliberately leave out half the sentence, then your understanding is half past six. The key words are “does not invalidate”.
The key words are “does not invalidate or prohibit“.
Who is deliberately leaving out words again? ;-)
“Dapsters scream that other people are “racist”. Now you’re screaming that I’m hysterical.
Tsk, tsk, tsk Acik Ducik. You just can’t get away from your origins, can you?”
Then, do not go into a hysterical screaming and ranting on things unrelated to our initial discussion.
I see you have got away from your origins as an articulate writer and descended to levels that would make the ‘Weekly World News’ truthful journalism in comparison.
re: “Your reaction of calling people ‘dyslexic’, etc. is an example of being hysterical and ad-hominem.”
If you’re not dyslexic, then how did you miss copypasting half the clause? Dyslexia factually describes your medical condition.
re: “The core point is that the part of Article 8 which I did not paste, does not contradict what I put forth.”
Of course it does. The missing bit read: “This Article DOES NOT invalidate or prohibit – ”
re: “So, show us where the Constitution speaks about any future legal provisions?” / “I take it that you could not find any proof to back your claim that it is limited to past provisions. Never mind.”
It only shows up how completely divorced you are from how the Constitution is framed. You’ve actually suggested the Constitution “speaks about future legal provisions” that were not there in 1963. When asked to show an example, you putar-belit as usual.
re: “key words are “does not invalidate”. / The key words are “does not invalidate or prohibit“. / Who is deliberately leaving out words again?”
And you accuse me of splitting hairs. Three fingers pointing back at yourself.
re: “Then, do not go into a hysterical screaming and ranting on things unrelated to our initial discussion.”
Dapsters scream that other people are “racist”. Now you’re screaming that I’m hysterical.
Tsk, tsk, tsk Acik Ducik. You just can’t get away from your origins, can you?
re: “I see you have got away from your origins as an articulate writer and descended to levels that would make the ‘Weekly World News’ truthful journalism in comparison.”
Now you’re demonstrating ad hominem.
shamshul anuar,
Re: They refuse integration, they insist on separate school system, they refuse to speak in Bahasa.
What is the relationship between the above and ‘Yet they are so adamant in using “Allah’?
Re: I have yet to find the word “allah” in Bible, old or King james version.
Go and get the Alkitab. Like the one seized by JAIS.
The stupid ones are the sheep duped by the selfish and imbecile Fr Lawrence into a syiok sendiri crusade they know they will lose and cause Pakatan lose in its malay support base… why has no Pakatan Muslim leader come down.. because they know they will go against the sentiment of the Muslim Malays..
it takes the daughter of what you bloody hypocrites call Mamak Kutty to come and show solidarity with the extremist Christians, you guys get it so easy, what I see is Marina consoling a bunch of retards who gets orgasm over a stain on a window pane looking like a virgin who suddenly got pregnant (talk about voodoo magic).. but u see no Khalid Ibrahim, Nurul Izzah or Anwar Ibrahim dare to even take picture with a priest these days.. let alone caught n a church!!
To me, the stupid ones are the Christian extremists in the Peninsular, for jeopardizing their own political base, dah rasa kuasa skit dah kurang ajar… pastu bodoh cari pasal dengan mainstream Malays who are BTW the majority in the mainstream polity… you cant get any stupider than that.
Thank you fellow Christians of Peninsular for being so stupid.. you have helped UMNO to gain support and make PAS drift further from Pakatan.. hallelujah.
burqa is a cultural thing it’s not even islamic… even the mainstream standard excepted way to dress for a women one doesn’t have to cover her face and as for the case of the women i think the french should respect diversity among it’s citizen.. after all isn’t french a secular nation.. why must they discriminate a person because of his or her culture and i don’t believe it just about security issue… as for the women i think she should just move to another country…
REASONABLY in a western country that kind of image is unaccepted.. the same way muslim see short skirt etc as immodest and disrespecting.. she better live in saudi or any arab country.. masuk kandang lembu menguak masuk kandang kambing mengembek the old saying goes..
and so for those in peninsular malaysia that insist on using the Allah WORD in the Bible… bare in mind peninsular malaysia is still predominantly muslim it history for the last 500 years is islamic although the degree of practice change from mild to a much more rigid interpretation.. understand the sentiment and just go with the flow.. jgn susahkan hidup semua org..org di sabah pun terasa bahangnya.. ini semua poyo.. sudah-sudahlah..
and like i said before just migrate to sarawak or sabah if you want to use bible with Allah word in it… because here it’s an old tradition… majority muslim here too didn’t feel islam is threaten.. and we already familiar with the multi-cultural & multi-religious backdrop of the borneo people.. do all your mission all you want as long as you know how to behave…
you can talk about your all loving god but don’t get overboard because then the muslim will give you a hard time… or know know nothing violent just kau punya telinga mungkin panas.. hahah because they can get a little bit sarcastic when you try to debate about your anak tuhan yg datang menyelamatkan manusia dari dosa… yeah it happen haha.. kesian itu father petrus.. hahah old memories.
beside in this age of information… just by a click people can get info about anything including religion and believe me you guys really need to work hard.. instead trying to create issues various tactic trying to convert people how about you guys just focusing on keeping your current followers strong in their faith because a lot of my christian friend are questioning their faith..
one case of a friend currently in crises with his catholic parent because he keep questioning about the validity of the bible after watching a lot of richard dawkins argument on youtube.. yeah he’s a big richard dawkin fan now.. he even questioning my Allah.. ayoyo
It is widely known that WSJ is a fan of Anwar and pens articles that are highly biased to attack BN. John Malott, AI’s BFF often makes appearance with his demented style and mindless diatribes aimed at Najib. No surprise here. I would just ignore this junk. Completely unobjective and lacking in journalistic ethics. The fact that the priest broke the law was conveniently overlooked.
Helen,
Re: Alamak! Dah parah ni, malunya Umno…
Tiada sebab untuk UMNO berasa malu.. Ulasan serta komen negatif tidak langsung boleh memalukan UMNO..
Yang memalukan UMNo adalah pemimpin yang lembik dan tong kosong..