(1) Did Deputy Minister P. Waytha Moorthy time the announcement of his resignation to coincide with the Kajang by-election?
Probably, yeah.
(2) What is the impact of his resignation on the Najib administration?
The cabinet comprises the ministers. As a deputy minister, Waytha is technically not a member of the cabinet.
His appointment had been a maverick move and caught many people by surprise. His resignation is however less of a surprise and has been expected for some time.
Malaysia’s 14th general election has to be called by mid-2018. That’s more than four years away and a great distance if we’re looking at political lifetimes.
(3) What is the impact on Najib Razak’s image?
Kerbau dipegang pada talinya, manusia dipegang pada janjinya. Dilihat bahawa kata Najib tidak dikota.
By failing to roll out the Hindraf blueprint that he promised, Najib broke nambikei and trust after it is lost will be hard to regain.
This development inclines me to think that Najib will similarly fail to deliver on his promise of the BEEP (Bumiputera Economic Empowerment Programme).
(4) Will others now be willing to believe that Najib can keep his word?
Below is what he said when he spoke at UiTM in Shah Alam:
“kepada orang-orang Melayu dan Bumiputera, usahlah berbimbang-bimbang dan bergundah-gundah, kerana selagi ada bulan dan bintang selagi hayat dikandung badan survival Melayu dan Bumiputera tetap menjadi keutamaan dan pelita perjuangan kita sampai bila-bila.”
Najib also said to menyedapkan telinga:
“Setelah selesai Pilihanraya Umum yang lalu, kita mendengar pelbagai rungutan, pelbagai keluh-kesah serta ketidakpuasan hati, yang dibangkitkan oleh masyarakat Bumiputera, tentang nasib, masa depan dan halatuju, bersama anak-anak cucu mereka, di bumi tanah tumpah darah kita.
“Sememangnya, kita mendengar rintihan tuan-tuan dan puan-puan. Kita juga, menyelami denyut nadi serta resah gulana tuan-tuan dan puan-puan……, Yes… indeed!!!… we hear you… we hear you loud and clear.”
Are the Malays going to be getting the same treatment from Najib as Hindraf? Lu fikir sendiri lah.
This is what Hindraf secretary P. Ramesh (pix) said in his statement:
“We (Hindraf) did the most unthinkable – signing a pact with our one time nemesis, entirely in the interest of the Malaysian Indian poor, and in the honest belief that the Barisan National leadership would fulfil its promises.”
“We have now given up any hope of that happening, eight months of trying.”
Yup, Najib was given the benefit of the doubt before GE13 and rightly so.
READ CAREFULLY YA …
Ramesh also said:
“We have patiently worked with the Prime Minister to detail the MoU and to begin the rollout of the programs in the MoU. In trying to do this, we have met with nothing more than an unending series of delays and dead ends.
“It’s now clear to us that the Prime Minister and the Barisan Nasional are not going to honour the MoU. They have neither the necessary political will nor the courage to deliver on the promises in the MoU.
“The signing of the MoU and the often repeated promise of ‘nambikei’ by the PM seem now to be utterly empty promises to the Indian community. Their foot dragging is not due to the usual and unavoidable grind of the bureaucracy, but is just a guise for their concealed intention not to honour the MoU.
“Prime Minister Najib and the Barisan Nasional, in not honouring the MoU, have committed a historic act of betrayal to the Malaysian Indian community.”
(5) Will the BEEP largely meet the same fate as the Hindraf blueprint?
I suggest that you Malays should keep track of all the clouds and the mountains promised by Najib and see if your community will get half (or a quarter maybe) of what he promised on 14 Sept 2013.
There’s a saying — Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
Najib fooled Hindraf, shame on him
If Malays let Najib fool you …
What has Najib done?
He paid RM7.2 billion to consultants. He flew the FLOM on private jet.
He retains Shahrizat at Ministerial status and she is given ministerial perks. Not only her but other cronies too. And not forgetting his busloads of Pemandu, who in a fit of Freudian slip had “sacked” him. Then there are the advisors — the Marina-Wardina-Mujahid national unity council. Now Najib has his National Reconciliation new toy.
He appoints his Menteri Kangkung who was found guilty of money politics by the Umno disciplinary board. KJ brings Veginatable to the office, and Ibdillilah too.
“So excited!” (see Regina Lee’s tweet) And soooo excited the Dapsters are too. This news of Waytha’s resignation is ammunition for the oppo.
“This year will be awesome la” (see Regina Lee’s tweet). Yes indeed.
Ramesh’s statement on how Najib treated Hindraf will provide a lot of mileage in the run-up to the Kajang by-election. The seat has more than 10 percent Indian voters and more than 40 percent Chinese voters. Kow tim already for Pakatan.
I’m not the only one who thinks that Najib may be the last Umno president to be Prime Minister of Malaysia. And this is coming from someone who really doesn’t want to see the DAP evangelistas take over Putrajaya.
(847 words)
Helen Ang 
Amok Helen, jangan tak amok. `Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me thrice, i am gonna run amok on you! Wow what an awesome month this February! Comes April every body will be `FOOLING` around…….
I want to say something good about Najib then I saw the Marina, Wardina Mujaheed thingy and realised Najib is up to his stupid thoeries and games. Marina, oppositiion, Wardian PAS, Mujaheed PAS why he surround himself with people who are anti Malay and UMNO?
He probably takes the Malay support for granted. Keep the peace while his brothers families make money with the Chinese.. just like previous UMNO Presidents..
Hindraf blueprint just to [lease wathaya not the Indan community. The real culprit who let down Indiians are the Indian themselselve most is their leader be in BN or PT be it MIC or DAP (errr how many indian are there in DAP) be it Hindrat.
The facts is since Merdeka Government have done many good deeds to Indians plus the Chinese of course.. Yes Najid is the weakeast KINDEST PM of all He give Indian, Chinese $$$ plus consultants. He the PM for All as he claimed but no one notice Najib is the PM and Najib still dreams that everyone knew he the PM.
6th Public Talk, Saanen, Switzerland, 19th July, 1979
Jiddu Krishnamurti: On INTELLIGENCE, LOVE & COMPASSION [YouTube]
Is there an insight that will bring about a revolution within us?
Aren’t the outer and inner selves indivisible, but one movement of thought instead? Is there one spiritual perception that frees man completely from this psychological conditioning?
Intelligence is free from ignorance and so from illusion and it is not the result of informational knowledge.
If there is an ideal then isn’t action always conforming or adjusting itself to the ideal, which may betray a lack of perception?
With intelligence is there a state of being which can solve the innumerable conflicts and miseries we experience?
Yes, Najib is some sort like kura kura. Kura kura suka makan kangkong. Plus kura kura bergerak sangat ppeelllaahhhaannn and bila ada problem, sembunyi kepala dalam tempurung. Senyap seribu bahasa.
ROTFL
The best chance they get, from the ruling government, even after the unfavourable first impression HINDRAF made, and he quits after 8 months?
This is not patience. Clearly he doesn’t appreciate the fact that his so called ‘nemesis’ offered to work together with him in the first place. What’s the plan now?
Doesn’t he realize that MIC,an Indian party is part of BN as well? Maybe they should have worked together instead of waiting for everything to be started by Najib? Do things in small steps? What do I know anyway, nobody made me deputy minister.
Let’s not forget, while they blame Najib’s government, he’s been a part of that government for that period as well. It’s his failure as well.
Should have never accepted the appointment in the first place. What a big mistake, huh? Do we all agree on that or what?
Hi Anon,
Your comment is a fair one. So I shall try to augment it to round your perspective.
re: “The best chance they get, from the ruling government,
Agree. Najib brought on board NGO non-Malays, Paul Low is the other one. And the Maybank CEO Abdul Wahid Omar as well.
re: “even after the unfavourable first impression HINDRAF made”
Agree again.
But I ask you to look closely into what brought about the Hindraf ‘uprising’. The bad impression was created by both the government (who linked them to the Tamil Tigers — not true lah) and the Firsters to whom Hindraf’s name (Hindu Rights Action Force) and their representation of “Indians” specifically is an anathema.
re: “and he quits after 8 months?”
Ramesh in his statement said that they met with “dead ends”.
re: “This is not patience.”
It is not just Waytha’s personal decision alone. There is his movement office bearers and their constituency to answer to as well. (I’ll try to elaborate on this later as there is more to the story.)
But try to see the bigger picture that there’s a lot of expectations placed on his shoulders.
re: “Clearly he doesn’t appreciate the fact that his so called ‘nemesis’ offered to work together with him in the first place.”
Of course he does. Can you remember how much flak Hindraf got for agreeing to work with BN? Even at that point (eve of GE13), the Indian sentiment was largely anti-establishment. Uthaya remains staunchly anti-Umno all the way.
Look, the Chinese vote is 90-95% Pakatan’s going into GE14. The English-speaking, Christian and professional Indians are also with Pakatan.
We’re going to have a ‘civil war’ because it seems like BN (means Umno) is now relying all on Malay votes only in the peninsula. And to achieve this, the Race-and-Religion card is being played with greater ferocity.
re: “What’s the plan now?”
Good question. I’ll ask them and let you know.
re: “Doesn’t he realize that MIC,an Indian party is part of BN as well?”
Same rivalry like MCA and Gerakan in Penang last time.
re: “Maybe they should have worked together instead of waiting for everything to be started by Najib?”
Hard to say. MIC was keeping a watchful eye. Look at it this way. If Hindraf was successful, wouldn’t the Indians then ask, “How come MIC almost 60 years in gomen didn’t do this or that?”
re: “Do things in small steps? What do I know anyway, nobody made me deputy minister.”
Waytha was made a deputy minister but he wasn’t given a portfolio. Take for example KJ. He has the Youth and Sports portfolio and his Ministry has its own budget of several billions.
re: “Let’s not forget, while they blame Najib’s government, he’s been a part of that government for that period as well. It’s his failure as well.”
How much was he a part of the government when some of the Umno Ministers were screaming for his head? (c.f. the calls for his resignation). Given the hostility, can’t you imagine that he was up against a brick wall in Putrajaya?
re: “Should have never accepted the appointment in the first place. What a big mistake, huh? Do we all agree on that or what?”
The Dapsters are gleefully rubbing it in and saying “We told you so”. Personally – and this is hard against the opposition grain – I believe that Hindraf was right to have given BN the benefit of the doubt and to have made the attempt at reconciliation.
And I laud Najib for taking the leap of faith as well. It is a pity that he did not possess the steel to follow through. I believe that if the same scenario was under Tun Razak, the bringing into the fold would have succeeded.
Hi Helen,
“Waytha was made a deputy minister but he wasn’t given a portfolio. Take for example KJ. He has the Youth and Sports portfolio and his Ministry has its own budget of several billions.”
I dont think he is without portfolio, all deputy ministers, were given their jobs responsibilities, and i believe Waytha jobs is to make sure what he plan during the blueprint been implemented.
I think he do not really understand how government works. Do you think Gov dept can give you money to do anything you like? You need to put in reqeust for budget, get the paperwork ready, then the money will come. if he do not do the paperwork, show what his plan to lift the indians poor, what the impact, how much money needs for the programs to be allocated, then of course nothing happen. Did he think that because Najib appoint him, everybody need to kow tow to whatever his request? come on…
re: “I dont think he is without portfolio, all deputy ministers, were given their jobs responsibilities”
de facto :) like we don’t have a Law Ministry per se but Zaid Ibrahim used to be called de facto Law Minister.
I’ve seen some media say that he is Deputy Minister in charge of Indian Affairs.
re: “and i believe Waytha jobs is to make sure what he plan during the blueprint been implemented”
Ramesh in his statement said that they hit a brick wall. I’m not surprised. It’s natural that they would meet with resistance from the entrenched and established interests existing.
re: “I think he do not really understand how government works.”
The supporters ‘out there’ had too high expectations and also long-held prejudices. BN is hugely unpopular. You must remember that Uthaya remained adamantly opposed to Umno.
re: “Do you think Gov dept can give you money to do anything you like?”
The money was promised to the Hindraf blueprint just like some RM32 billion has been promised to BEEP. If the MoU is just a worthless piece of paper (the Christians also say that the 10-point solution is a “bounced cheque”), then Malays had better be realistic also wrt to what the BEEP is really worth.
re: “You need to put in reqeust for budget, get the paperwork ready, then the money will come.”
I thought the money is easy come, like the tens of millions handed over to the consultants, when KJ announced that the consultants would do a #lifestyle makmal untuk kaji kenaikan kos hidup.
re: “if he do not do the paperwork, show what his plan to lift the indians poor, what the impact, how much money needs for the programs to be allocated, then of course nothing happen.”
See, http://www.hindraf.co/index.php/news-statements/1168-mou-hindraf-bn
re: “Did he think that because Najib appoint him, everybody need to kow tow to whatever his request? come on…”
Can you tell me which request Waytha made that he expected everybody to kowtow to? We can discuss this further.
Who wants Waytha in the Government? not Malays not UMNO just Najib and his consultants..
Yes you are right. Not Malays not UMNO, they just want to continue to suppress and marginalize the Indians even further even if there is an opportunity to address the problems in a constructive and permanent manner as initiated by HINDRAF.
The level of maturity in some of these commentators are appalling as they rather have everything with a tit for tat attitude instead of trying to resolve the impending issues for fellow Malaysians. No wonder PR knows how to rile up the UMNO supporters.
We would trust Ibrahim more to resolve impending issues than this moorti traitor. What have the Queen got to do with Indians in Malaysia?
Would you have the same trust in Ibrahim Perkasa?
First of all, thanks for the reply.
I agree that he faced obstacles. Obviously. After what his group did, after Najib giving face to them, agreeing to work towards a blueprint and giving him a post, it would be naive and dumb to think that he would have not only smooth sailing but quick results. 8 months is far too short for anything. He cannot use this to pass judgement on the government, this shows his lack of resolve instead. If Najib is like him, Najib would have quit already. This just gives more validation to Najib critics in BN who don’t like how he seems willing to negotiate and even appoint people who are clearly against him. Waytha should have used obstacles inside BN as his excuse instead to keep him in that post, while learning to do what is necessary. Like you said, MIC in government didn’t do this and that in 60 years, so what do you expect a non portfolio deputy minister to do in 8 months?On the other hand, maybe activists are never suited for political posts anyway. Perhaps a lesson to the rest of them.
About the bad impression, I can’t speak for others, but the impression they made upon me is not due to the government claim of their alleged ties to LTTE. It’s due to their own actions.
Their dramatic and exaggerated claims of ethnic cleansing, their ridiculous suit against the UK that embarrasses the country, their quickness to defend shot Indian and only Indian gangsters, probably even their name and original purpose of creation. A Hindu Rights Action Force to demonstrate against demolition of their illegal temples. That left a bad taste that lingered for me. It would probably be the same if somebody else created a Catholics Rights Action Priests to defend Allah use in bibles and media to spread in the Peninsular. So maybe that’s not just a firsters thing.
Now that he severed this option of working with the government with this kind of timing, I’m not looking forward to what Hindraf’s planning to do next.
re: “8 months is far too short for anything.”
Their complaint was not that they expected to see results in 8 months but that nothing was moving at all.
re: “He cannot use this to pass judgement on the government, this shows his lack of resolve instead.”
Some Ministers in the cabinet vocally wanted him sacked. If that was the sentiment publicly expressed by Najib’s right-hand men, then you can guess what kind of obstacles Waytha faced in Putrajaya.
re: “If Najib is like him, Najib would have quit already.”
:) Not sure that Najib has the spine to be the field marshall in war. That’s why some Mahathirites are clamouring for Dr M’s return and quite forgetting that the grand old man will be 90 soon.
re: “This just gives more validation to Najib critics in BN who don’t like how he seems willing to negotiate and even appoint people who are clearly against him.”
Unfortunately yes.
re: “Waytha should have used obstacles inside BN as his excuse instead to keep him in that post, while learning to do what is necessary.”
Dunno the dynamics. Perhaps they lost faith in Najib.
re: “Like you said, MIC in government didn’t do this and that in 60 years, so what do you expect a non portfolio deputy minister to do in 8 months?”
My opinion: It was like they put Waytha in a gilded cage. I suppose that was how the Hindraf other leadership and their supporters felt.
re: “On the other hand, maybe activists are never suited for political posts anyway. Perhaps a lesson to the rest of them.”
Perhaps but Pakatan is benefitting from the ‘NGO’ influence and advocacy, e.g. Comango, Bersih, Suaram, Aliran, Bar Council …
re: “Their dramatic and exaggerated claims of ethnic cleansing, their ridiculous suit against the UK that embarrasses the country”
They had sent hundreds of memos/petitions/appeals earlier to the PMO without any/much publicity. If not for the “ridiculous lawsuit” against the Queen of England, would they have been heard at all? Outrageous stunts get publicity.
re: “their quickness to defend shot Indian”
But the Bukit Aman CID chief himself said that the majority of the so-called “gangsters” are Indians (and disproportionate to their population numbers). And they are also the ones most shot at.
re: “and only Indian gangsters”
If Hindraf doesn’t speak up, then who will? Mr Hannah Yeoh for example isn’t even willing to acknowledge that he is Indian.
re: “probably even their name and original purpose of creation. A Hindu Rights Action Force to demonstrate against demolition of their illegal temples.”
Hindu temples were being demolished. There was no spate of mosque destruction or church destruction. The movement was a REACTION to what was happening.
re: “So maybe that’s not just a firsters thing.”
But the Firsters have a thorough control of the English media. Look at how The J-Star is playing the Teresa kok video story to favour the evangelistas. So they are the opinion leaders and they shape public perception.
As for the older Tamil media, they are generally seen as being controlled by the MIC warlords who are the paper owners. So Hindraf would not be getting good press.
re: “Now that he severed this option of working with the government with this kind of timing, I’m not looking forward to what Hindraf’s planning to do next.”
Definitely interesting future. I would have thought that the best option was to negotiate state assistance for the poor Indians.
Was it really just a publicity stunt? A million for each Indian, if I were Indian I probably would take it seriously and hope for the class action suit to succeed. Anyway, thanks to that and also ethnic cleansing allegations, now people like me remember them all for the wrong reasons and some of them also get to spend time in prison.
As for the disproportionate number of Indians in crime, for me it’s better if they spent time instead trying to prevent Indians involved in crime instead of defending criminals and coming out with various allegations when police act on those criminals. I don’t like to defend criminals even if they are Malay. It’s a mistake to focus on the race of the criminals which they did, instead of focusing on the procedures and heavy handedness of the policemen.
The same disproportionate numbers also apply to the number of temples and illegal temples, compared to the Indian population. There’s bound to be a number of them demolished. The grievous mistake is that some of them should have been preserved for their age and cultural values. Going against the government claiming there’s a concerted effort against Hindus limits the number of their potential supporters from the start. I think that’s why the opposition and their supporting NGOs claim universal values and Malaysian Firstness as well, more room for supporters from various ideologies. Of course, what people actually do is another matter.
All in all, their reactions are misplaced, they backfired and I suspect this resignation decision similarly is in poor wisdom and would be to the same effect as well.
re: “for me it’s better if they spent time instead trying to prevent Indians involved in crime”
I couldn’t agree more. That’s why Hindraf was asking for places in vocational and training institutes. A little funding to this end would go a long way towards turning around the lives of unfortunate youths.
Instead we had government money going to projects like the Monsoon Cup, and we know who is behind that one.
Najib does not have his priorities straight. He has alienated the Indian votes.
Now BN in the peninsula is going to be purely Melayu all the way. But there are still the 6.5 million Chinese and 2 million Indians, the majority of whom are hostile to Umno, to contend with. These 8.5 million residents will not be going away.
And they want Umno buried.
Waytha should do a “lawatan sambil belajar” to see how Indians (from India) are doing well in the US.
Indian-Americans, like Chinese-Americans, do well in school and college there, get good jobs and do well in the corporate world. Like the guy who just became CEO of Microsoft and the lady who runs PepsiCo.
It’s all about education.
And this is where Hindraf, MIC and the other assorted Indian parties in Malaysia have failed woefully.
re: “It’s all about education.”
Urm, can you elaborate on how Hindraf, MIC and the other assorted Indian parties in Malaysia have woefully failed Indians in this area?
Are you suggesting that they should have galvanized the Indian community to support Tamil schools like how the Chinese community is united to support Chinese schools?
And thereafter the Chinese kids go to Taiwan unis (like Namewee) and today with the opening up of China, go to mainland Chinese unis in future? Meaning the equivalent would be our Indian kids enrolling in uni in India to do their coveted medical courses since they complain that they cannot get seats in local uni.
Well, for starters, what is the “drop out” rate among Malaysian Indian children – failing to complete their primary or secondary school education?
What percentage of the Indian Malaysian student cohort each year makes it to university & graduates into the workforce?
As compared with Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Malays?
A book (The Malaysian Indian Dilemma) says that almost 85 percent of the Tamil schools were in the estates. The author Janakey Raman Manickam is referring to the NEP period (1970-1990).
He’s got 1990 stats. Out of the intake of 9,446 undergrads enrolled in public unis, Indians make up 505 freshies or 5.35%
He says there is no official data according to ethnic breakdown of how Indian students performed in PMR or SPM.
re: “85 percent of the Tamil schools were in the estates”
What I meant to convey is: If the estates are fragmented and turned into new housing development, e.g. Sime
then these Tamil schools, just like the Hindu temples, would necessarily be dismantled.
I am not sure of the Malay & Chinese. On average 35,000 Indian student start with Std 1. About 28,000 makes it to SPM and only about 5,000 goes further than that to pursue matriculation and university education.
Have no info on how many actually enters vocational training.
Generally amongst the Indian community we can see many drop out after Form 5 mainly due to their economical standing and the need to start work early to bring bread and butter to their family.
no support from within the hindraf clan. Clan pressure
I think Hindraf is the culprit here and Najib had certainly delivered his promises. I share the sentiments of this blog
http://justread-whatever.blogspot.com/2014/02/its-your-call-waytha.html
I’ll address the J-Star proxy voice in a separate posting. Thanks for the heads-up, Urb.
Kenapa terus percaya 100% apa yang orang Hindraf tu cakap? Bukankah lebih baik/adil untuk mendengar penjelasan daripada kedua-dua pihak dahulu sebelum menghentam sebelah pihak sahaja secara melulu?
Dah banyak kali dah terjadi di mana apabila kita dengar “one side of the story only, there is a tendency for it to be full of exaggeration ie. auta lebih, tak kiralah dalam hal apa pun”.
Dear TokAunty,
If you desire any clarification, please post your question – what you want to know further – and I’ll elaborate.
It will be good to expand the discussion in our comments section. There’s a limit to how much info I can accommodate in a single article (above) and there are many facets to the story.
Re. He retains Shahrizat at Ministerial status and she is given ministerial perks
Let me set the record straight and this is a re-posting from Annie’s blog:
Ok let’s see this specifically by looking at why Shahrizat is still there as Special Advisor to the PM. Annie recently commented and labelled Shahrizat as “TOO TAINTED” to be the next PM. Well knowing Annie’s writing style with a pinch of ambiguity, she may or she may not sincerely mean that.
It is given, that generally, the perception about Shahrizat is “BIG NEGATIVE” by the public of both side of the fences due to the Lembu-Condo debacle.
But why is she still there? Let’s look at this point for consideration:
1. In PRU13 majority of the registered voters are Females;
2. UMNO/BN won in PRU13 due to rural voters voter i.e.” the poor and the stupid” according to most of you, and not from the urban and professional Malay voters;
3. Who are these rural, “poor “, and “stupid” voters actually? Majority of them are Wanita and Puteri UMNO members and fence seaters.
4. Who drove and harnessed these voters? You think Annie, Helen and all the other pro-BN bloggers who had been writing and supporting UMNO/BN prior to PRU13? Mind you, this group of people have no time to surf the web and read the blog religiously as they have other important chores/jobs/responsibilities to attend to on daily basis.
It was Shahrizat and her team, who drove the votes home, and not you, me or most people who read this blog.
Do you think she is there to put her blood, sweat and tears for free; maybe she does, but I don’t think that the PM is that wicked to forsake her hard work as Wanita UMNO Chiefm hence the current position. Not to forget she didn’t even offer herself to contest in the PRU13 knowing her situation.
For everyone of us to simply judge her based on that lembu-condo issue is totally unfair. You, Annie, I and majority of the urban professionally Malays don’t root for her for she has nothing to offer to us (and so we think), but the makcik-makcik in rural areas root for her and she in return appeals to them tremendously; of cause you don’t read all these in the papers, as that’s not Shahrizat, she may have done a lot of great things, but to flaunt it, she is very selective about it.
For instance, do you know that whenever Sharizat went for Kenduri Kendara in Kampung, she didn’t come as “MEM BESAR”. According to my friends, “dia sama -sama menyising lengan memasak dan bergotong-royong di dapur “. All protocol gone and she is fondly known as Jat or Kak Jat only;
or do you know that when she paid her last respect to Allahyarhamah Dr. Siti Mariah, PAS MP, who died of cancer, one of the PAS Muslimat chided her by saying “Dah mati baru nak datang” outloud, yet she just ignored it and shouldered on;
or when she visited one the Bersih 2.0 supporters who was injured in the hospital but that lady gave her cold shoulder (please google that pix with her “MUKA MACAM BANGSAT” i.e. the injured lady);
There are numerous other stories but she never make a fuss about it, yet this nit-gritty are significant forces that make her well-liked and adored by the rural TOTOK Malay Women. and that my friend what deliver the votes.
On that note, is it fair if Najib is to forsake her? So Helen, before you judge please at least understand what is actually happening on the ground.
P.S
I don’t like her for what she did to Rafidah Azis last time, TAMAK KUASA dan TAK SABAR, but credit due credit deserved.
re: “or do you know that when she paid her last respect to Allahyarhamah Dr. Siti Mariah, PAS MP, who died of cancer”
Ish! Touch wood. Dr Siti Mariah, the PAS Bukit Raja MP is well and good and even accompanied Teresa Kok to the police station to make the police report. The PAS doctor who passed away from cancer was Dr Lo’Lo’ Ghazali (Titiwangsa MP).
As for Shahrizat, I’m aware of her popularity with the makciks and that’s why Azalina decided not to challenge her for Ketua Wanita.
However we have to do a cold, hard calculation dan jangan lah menang sorak (popular with Umno women) tapi kampung tergadai (BN losing GE14).
The Malay women who have been traditionally voting Umno are like the Cina totok DAP. You can put a tunggul kayu there – as long as it’s got the dacing symbol – they will sokong. This situation is the same as the town Chinese’s (e.g. in Seputeh) attachment to the Rocket.
Nothing can budge the vote of the Cina totok in the DAP-dominated towns and the Melayu totok in the Umno-dominated kampung. These are fixed deposits. So whether Shahrizat is Ketua Wanita or not, and whether she is Minister or not, these Malay women votes remain in the Umno bag.
In the Umno rural areas the ancestral memory is still strong and they are terrified of the Chinese gaining federal power. Even if they’re angry at Shahrizat’s removal, their vote still cannot be budged to the opposition.
However the young Malay voters who do not have the ancestral memory can be taken in by harga Barang Naik protests, anti-extravagance (b’cos they also feel the pinch with the high cost of living and some no job) and anti-corruption like Cowgate. Remember all the photos of Puan Speaker with the young Malay undergrads that I’ve published in my blog?
Then there are the professional and bilingual urban Malays — the demography of my blog. While they will not support Pakatan, some of their votes might move to Isma or Perkasa. This still translates into a loss for Umno.
While Umno may romp home in the rural constituencies, the semi-urban ones are hard fought. This is shown in the gains made by PAS in the Selangor DUN seats where their haul doubled (increase from 8 Aduns to 15) comparing 2008 and 2013.
Is Shahrizat bad for Umno’s image? Hell yes.
If Najib had been decisive and cantas Shahrizat (it would have been a popular decision at national level) … not necessarily in public before GE13 but nonetheless with the proviso that she exit the stage and not recontest Wanita … there would have been 6 whole years for Wanita Umno to recover and build up a new leadership.
Isn’t it Dr M who said “Melayu mudah lupa”? Then at least Umno can move into the future and appeal to young Malay voters and new middle-class Malay suburban will not be having CowCondo as a millstone around the party’s neck.
How the Shahrizat scandal has panned out is an illustration that Clueless Kura-Kura Najib is not capable of making tough decisions.
That’s why some big names (the party guardian spirits) appear worried that Najib will finally be the man who sinks the Titanic.
Re. The PAS doctor who passed away from cancer was Dr Lo’Lo’ Ghazali (Titiwangsa MP).
Opps! My apology to Dr Siti Mariah and family.
Re. that’s why Azalina decided not to challenge her for Ketua Wanita.
WRONG.
She could have won anytime, but the tone and game to play during that period is to preserve the Women Wing unity. Plus Azalina, herself has a case pending. It won’t make any different.
Re. Even if they’re angry at Shahrizat’s removal, their vote still cannot be budged to the opposition.
She may not be there the next round, but to forsake her on job well done is totally unfair at present stage. You have been working in an organisation before you know how the game is played.
Re. If Najib had been decisive and cantas Shahrizat (it would have been a popular decision at national level) … not necessarily in public before GE13 but nonetheless with the proviso that she exit the stage and not recontest Wanita … there would have been 6 whole years for Wanita Umno to recover and build up a new leadership.
And your expect Shahrizat to work for free and think that she doesn’t have flesh, blood and heart like everyone of us?
Again that is your idealism. The fact remains, she deliver the vote. You, I and many of the followers in this blog don’t “menyinsing lengan dan kain” from kampung to kampung to drive the vote home.
To forsake her is totally unfair, it may satisfy the urban and professional Malays’ votes but still not as strong as to change the pattern.
Re. Then there are the professional and bilingual urban Malays — the demography of my blog. While they will not support Pakatan, some of their votes might move to Isma or Perkasa. This still translates into a loss for Umno.
This is no threat to UMNO/BN if any they the Alter Ego of UMNO. They still need UMNO support them as much as UMNO need them for the Malay unity.
Re. However the young Malay voters who do not have the ancestral memory can be taken in by harga Barang Naik protests, anti-extravagance (b’cos they also feel the pinch with the high cost of living and some no job) and anti-corruption like Cowgate
This is part and parcel of life, other countries face similar issues or even worst look at Thailand and not the issues are also brewing in Singapore.
Look! I can cut and paste all the news about the support and helps available for various group including the RM35 voucher per day for urban poor with household income less than RM3000.
Malaysian in general are ungrateful lots, they tend to complain but they never try look beyond that to solve the problem and . Everything must be spoon fed to them.
Have they actually “Mati Tak Makan” so far. The young are full of idealism, many of them are anti-etsablishment and this is no new news, but not to forget not all of them.
Re. Isn’t it Dr M who said “Melayu mudah lupa”?
Yes, and he should advise her daughter Marina Mahathir on that as well.
Re. Then at least Umno can move into the future and appeal to young Malay voters and new middle-class Malay suburban will not be having CowCondo as a millstone around the party’s neck.
Again whether you like it or not, the oppo. will make up other things even without the cow-condo. Haven’t you seen the pattern thus far. Meantime, haven’t you read about their own backyard.
I think I have commented before that something is brewing for Azalina in a short future. Meantime, let Shahrizat has her time for the work she has done to drive the votes home.
Re. How the Shahrizat scandal has panned out is an illustration that Clueless Kura-Kura Najib is not capable of making tough decisions
Why do you hate her so much?
She is already under the radar, she is just doing her job for UMNO and TOTOK Melayu in rural area. The young, urban and professional don’t root for her.
Re. That’s why some big names (the party guardian spirits) appear worried that Najib will finally be the man who sinks the Titanic.
It is politics, the same old game with different names and scenario. What do you expect?
re: “You have been working in an organisation before you know how the game is played.
The real problem is with the Umno organization itself whose culture is no longer attractive to young and professional Malays as well as perceived to be tainted. Umno is losing votes on the corruption issue and only regaining votes by riding on the backlash against Chinese and Christians (the old game of Race and Religion).
I’ve blogged previously that Isma is intelligent and articulate, and that I am impressed with how Isma is so on the ball (fast and to the point) in responding to the Islam issues.
When I look for cogent counter arguments against the evangelistas, I go to the Isma website to source ideas, not to Umno Online. Content-wise in my blog, you can see who and what I quote. The Umno personalities don’t figure, e.g. Ahmad Maslan never quoted here nor Shabery Cheek either.
Umno is Titanic in size but not profit-making. It makes me think of the corporate stories about how big, giant companies which have been operating donkey years lose business to their slick, savvy and agile smaller competitors.
re: “And your expect Shahrizat to work for free and think that she doesn’t have flesh, blood and heart like everyone of us?”
Hasn’t she collected enough already? And in the second place, although someone else may not immediately be able to match her popularity, are you saying there is no one else capable in Wanita Umno?
You can compare with the Johor DAP situation. I don’t like Guan Eng, I much prefer Dr Boo. But the party sec-gen managed to pull off the culling.
DAP Johor was build up by Dr Boo. He’s a local Johorean who did all the groundwork in GE13. I don’t agree with the Guan Eng coup on Boo but I’m highlighting this episode as an example that it can be done, i.e. the No.1 is able to pancung those down the line.
re: “The fact remains, she deliver the vote. You, I and many of the followers in this blog don’t “menyinsing lengan dan kain” from kampung to kampung to drive the vote home.”
The kampung vote would have been Umno’s in GE13 whether Shahrizat campaigns or not, just like the Chinese vote in the inner city is DAP’s whether the DAP candidate – whoever he is or a tunggul kayu – campaigns or not.
Look at Damansara Utama. Yeo Bee Yin is a newbie in the party (only joined DAP months before the election, at the same time as Ong Kian Ming) and she won the DU seat with a landslide. Ong Kian Ming won big in Serdang even though he is not a grassroots party man. They just rode on the anti-establishment wave.
Umno in the kampungs have the same momentum and can count on the pro-establishment wave and hutang budi for the development and upliftment that the party has brought the Malays.
It is the Malay fence-sitters that have to be targetted and they do not like Shahrizat. Zunar’s cartoons dissing her are popular, effective and real funny.
re: “To forsake her is totally unfair, it may satisfy the urban and professional Malays’ votes but still not as strong as to change the pattern.”
Najib has to be decisive to save Umno’s chances in GE14. Whatever Shahrizat’s hurt feelings have to take second place to the party survival.
re: “This is no threat to UMNO/BN if any they the Alter Ego of UMNO. They still need UMNO support them as much as UMNO need them for the Malay unity.”
Isma is not the alter ego of Umno. Isma has the potential to REPLACE Umno!! As for Perkasa, they are rebelling already.
re: “Everything must be spoon fed to them.”
I concur. That’s why the Dapsters swallow hook, line and sinker the DAP propaganda without bothering to find out the facts.
But the Chinese oppo vote is 90 percent and Chinese like me are a miniscule minority. So tell me which approach is more successful? Hate politics and bamboozle, or appealing to Rationality and Reason?
re: “Isn’t it Dr M who said “Melayu mudah lupa”? / Yes, and he should advise her daughter Marina Mahathir on that as well.”
,) Wonder where her vote (and Nazir Razak’s) went?
re: “Again whether you like it or not, the oppo. will make up other things even without the cow-condo.”
Yes they can and they do. But why give them the ammo? Cow Condo was live bullets.
re: “Meantime, let Shahrizat has her time for the work she has done to drive the votes home.”
There is no need to drive the kampung votes home for Umno. They are already safe votes, especially with the Allah issue. It is the fence-sitter, urban professional Malay votes that need to be persuaded. While they may not go oppo, they could just decide to stay at home on polling day. A Malay boycott will hurt BN.
re: “Why do you hate her so much?”
I do not hate her. I have never made any personal attacks against her. Unlike the J-Star, I don’t use unflattering pictures of her in my blog. I even mentioned that she looks younger than her years and slim in a body-fitting baju kurung. And she’s hardly ever the topic of my postings.
I’m just doing the cold, hard electoral calculations — Shahrizat is a political liability.
re: “She is already under the radar, she is just doing her job for UMNO and TOTOK Melayu in rural area. The young, urban and professional don’t root for her.”
Precisely! So Umno is not getting these young, urban and professional Malays who – horror of horrors – are paying courtesy calls to Puan Speaker and 88,000 of them (many Malays) following her Twitter.
re: “It is politics, the same old game with different names and scenario. What do you expect?”
The oppo have managed to convince their sheeple that they are introducing New Politics (they’re not, it’s just that they’re cleverer in manipulating public perception). If Umno does not succeed in lifting its game, then after GE14, we’re gonna be looking at new occupants in Putrajaya. If this happens, we’re going to get Bangkok Yellow Shirts Red Shirts.
Re. The real problem is with the Umno organization itself whose culture is no longer attractive to young and professional Malays as well as perceived to be tainted.
Are you saying that the oppo. is any better?
Re. Umno is losing votes on the corruption issue and only regaining votes by riding on the backlash against Chinese and Christians (the old game of Race and Religion).
Even if UMNO is as clean as the first drop of morning dew, they will still find fault. You are talking about human here and nor robot. Leader and Politicians rise up in pack and they work in group and camp for without it they fail miserably, Datuk Kamalia is one such example for failing to toe the line and there are many others before her.
Re. I’ve blogged previously that Isma is intelligent and articulate, and that I am impressed with how Isma is so on the ball (fast and to the point) in responding to the Islam issues.
If is much easier to be a critique looking from outside-in, then being a doer who is looking inside-out. Don’t get me wrong, I like ISMA, but you are too blinded by their idealism just like your fond of PSM.
“Kalau nak tahu orang tu baik ke tidak, beri dia kuasa”.
Re. When I look for cogent counter arguments against the evangelistas, I go to the Isma website to source ideas, not to Umno Online. Content-wise in my blog, you can see who and what I quote. The Umno personalities don’t figure, e.g. Ahmad Maslan never quoted here nor Shabery Cheek either.
This one I agree with you. But you have to understand that UMNO/BN have to be very sensitive towards other religions, whether they like it or not. Sedang Khutbah Jumaat yang mengikut nas al_quran pun boleh jadi isu bagi mereka.
Re. Umno is Titanic in size but not profit-making. It makes me think of the corporate stories about how big, giant companies which have been operating donkey years lose business to their slick, savvy and agile smaller competitors.
Correction they are conniving unless you want UMNO to stoop to their level.
Re. Hasn’t she collected enough already?
Tell me who has collected enough in this whole wide world?
Re. And in the second place, although someone else may not immediately be able to match her popularity, are you saying there is no one else capable in Wanita Umno?
I already said Azalina Othman is the one to look for and something is brewing for it, but the rest are just followers.
Re. You can compare with the Johor DAP situation. I don’t like Guan Eng, I much prefer Dr Boo. But the party sec-gen managed to pull off the culling.
DAP is a family business and legacy, UMNO works based on camp. Maybe you should read a book or was it an articles on “leader of the bull and leader of the pack”, then you will understand the situation.
Re. I’m highlighting this episode as an example that it can be done, i.e. the No.1 is able to pancung those down the line.
I know who is your target, but you don’t drive the votes home to Najib, but so and so does. Deal with it.
Re. The kampung vote would have been Umno’s in GE13 whether Shahrizat campaigns or not, just like the Chinese vote in the inner city is DAP’s whether the DAP candidate – whoever he is or a tunggul kayu – campaigns or not.
Wrong. Never take this group for granted. The PAS muslimah has been working 24-7 to change the tide. If any the saying ” Bulat Air Kerana Kendi, Bulat Manusia Kerana Mufakat” is the key phrase here, that has enable UMNO to retain such influence.
Re. Look at Damansara Utama. Yeo Bee Yin is a newbie in the party (only joined DAP months before the election, at the same time as Ong Kian Ming) and she won the DU seat with a landslide. Ong Kian Ming won big in Serdang even though he is not a grassroots party man. They just rode on the anti-establishment wave.
The key words is Chinese Tsunami, sorry to say, BABI pakai baju pun mereka akan undi.
Re. It is the Malay fence-sitters that have to be targetted and they do not like Shahrizat. Zunar’s cartoons dissing her are popular, effective and real funny.
Yupe, but still she was there through thick and thin making her the much beloved one. BTW, aren’t Zunar pro oppo. cartoonist?
Re. Najib has to be decisive to save Umno’s chances in GE14. Whatever Shahrizat’s hurt feelings have to take second place to the party survival.
I think she already knows her fate, it is just that Najib want to give her face from the double blow.
Re. Isma is not the alter ego of Umno. Isma has the potential to REPLACE Umno!! As for Perkasa, they are rebelling already.
In the long run maybe but not in immediate future.
Re. But the Chinese oppo vote is 90 percent and Chinese like me are a miniscule minority. So tell me which approach is more successful? Hate politics and bamboozle, or appealing to Rationality and Reason?
Politicians will tell you what you want to hear at various different locations and audience according to the needs. Take a guess?
Re. ,) Wonder where her vote (and Nazir Razak’s) went?
Who cares…ROTFL
Re. There is no need to drive the kampung votes home for Umno. They are already safe votes, especially with the Allah issue. It is the fence-sitter, urban professional Malay votes that need to be persuaded. While they may not go oppo, they could just decide to stay at home on polling day. A Malay boycott will hurt BN.
Read my above comment wrt this.
Re. I do not hate her.
But you are amplifying it indirectly.
Re. Precisely! So Umno is not getting these young, urban and professional Malays who – horror of horrors – are paying courtesy calls to Puan Speaker and 88,000 of them (many Malays) following her Twitter.
Isn’t that KJ and Regina’s job to counter? We have talked about this.
Re. The oppo have managed to convince their sheeple that they are introducing New Politics (they’re not, it’s just that they’re cleverer in manipulating public perception). If Umno does not succeed in lifting its game, then after GE14, we’re gonna be looking at new occupants in Putrajaya. If this happens, we’re going to get Bangkok Yellow Shirts Red Shirts.
I have commented so many times, it is the battle between the UMNO and DAP from now on. May be it will come to point of a Zero-Sum game.
re: “Puan Speaker and 88,000 of them (many Malays) following her Twitter.” / “Isn’t that KJ and Regina’s job to counter? We have talked about this.”
Hannah is Regina’s BFF insofar as expedient friendship can exist between two such shallow connivers.
Khairy is popular. There’s no disputing that. Some youngsters think KJ the winner of the glamer Shout Award is a cool and happenin’ dude. But his personal popularity does not translate into support for BN.
As for Regina, besides being a security risk, her job is to popularize her boss among the Dapsters so that KJ is seen as the Malay politico able to straddle the divide and forge a “national consensus”.
In other words, KJ is the oppo’s vision of Anwar 2.0. He will jump ship in order to pursue his ambition of becoming Malaysia’s youngest PM, if there is a hung Parliament.
I agree there needs to be a fresh insight into UMNo. They are too dated. Kj needs to get rid of Rl in order for him to gain the respect as KPU.
Agree with helen that Kj could be the turncoat.
UMNO is so liveless with najib MIA.
Helen,
Khairi can dream on. If he thinks DAP has high regards on him, he must be dreaming. DAP is laughing behind his back for his stupidity in appointing Regina.
Helen,
Shahrizat is Wanita UMNO Chief. She may not be popular but i must say Wanita UMNO is backbone of UMNO itself.
I had seen how effective these “makcik makcik” are. They, not the men who go all out for votes.
The problem in UMNO is Najib. Najib I must say is the biggest enemy of UMNO. I am pretty sure he does not realise it. He is supplying ‘ammunition” to those who want UMNO dead.
MPKN is filled with those who hate UMNO. He depends so much on consultants at expense of time tested experience civil service. He simply being dumb to accept Anwar’s proposal of unity talk.
CANT NAJIB see that whatever comes from Anwar’s mouth is a trap. And where is Najib’s principal when there is talk on contesting in Kajang.
What is so bloody important to contest in kajang. It will not have effect on legitimacy of Selangor state government. Just ignore the by election. and in the process send a message that BN will not dance to moronic antics of Anwar.
PROBLEM WITH NAJIB is that he behaves as if he lost PRU13. BN won. and UMNO has 88 seats. Why is Najib so being “aplogetic”.
Why not he rebukes Theresa fore being “kurang ajar’. Why cant he strip off the citizenship of those out of line.
re: “Just ignore the by election and in the process send a message that BN will not dance to moronic antics of Anwar.”
You have a point there Shamshul, i.e. refuse to play the PKR game.
re: “PROBLEM WITH NAJIB is that he behaves as if he lost PRU13. BN won and UMNO has 88 seats.”
Absolutely! What is wrong with Najib?!!
Helen,
“what is wrong with Najib?”
PROBLEM with Najib is that he is supporting those who want UMNO dead. And Najib looks down on Malays. He did not seek advice from those who defend his government
Why cant he appoint Dr Ridhuan tee, Dr Ramlah Adam into MPKN?
Re. Are the Malays going to be getting the same treatment from Najib as Hindraf? Lu fikir sendiri lah.
Can everyone especially the Malays in here tell me what kind of treatment that they actually expect from our PM? Materialistically, I have commented many times before, that just because it is not in your pocket that doesn’t mean you don’t enjoyed the privilege.
I may be wrong, but judging by the tone and temperature (me included) we want DAP dead as much as they want UMNO/BN dead. That’s the key issue here.
LOL,
I don’t think that in this situation the Malay will care what treatment they will get from PM. They simply don’t trust Chinese, period.
One by one the stories, I guess some of it is a rumours, surfaced. A story how the Chinese trying to cheat them when the price of some items high in last week and this week after the inforcement of the price control by government, the prices of that items goes down.
The stories about how the Chinese officer refused to attend them in investment chided they’re busy but when he come back after 5 minutes, the same officer busily explaining about the same bisness portfolios to the chinese.
This is a sample of the stories I hear yesterday. I means, really, it’s getting hotter by the minutes yesterday.
I think, the Malay see, that in UMNO, and you can replace the President with a motions and with anough forces and request from akar umbi (like first PM TAR and then Tun A ), it ‘s can really happen.
They don’t see today situations as Najib’s fault right now, the see it , it is the Chinese fault. They the one who created this situations.
Unlike some of us who busily reading a block, a lot of this people busily attending their day to day life. Their stories centered around what they facing daily.
That is what I read on the ground in a sub urbant area where the community is a mix-up of the lower, middle and higher incomes people. Majority of them is a Malay.
This people will discuss about Bantuan Persekolahan, BRIM, Income tax closing dates, TEKUN and much more. Last year, I joint this group once in a while and their discussion was centering around this matters.
Suddenly in the past few month, it morph into Chinese kurang ajar. If this kind of people started to discuss this, what do you suppost brewing inside their mind and heart? It’s make you wonder how the kampung folks feel. Base on a few places I visit, the similer things brewing too.
Do the Malay care what they will get from PM? I don’t think they care. PM already gives them BRIM, Bantuan Persekolahan, TEKUN and much more. It is enought for now and with a few more they for see coming to all Malay, they don’t care.
I got the impression that they only care about what they view as the survival of Malay which now facing a threat from the Chinese.
A dangerous sentiment is brewing among the Malay. I read in the history that this sentiment once brewing among the Malay. It is like seeing the history repeated once again and this times it is live infront of my face.
I’m afraid it can exploded and we will facing another tragedy and we will be the one in the history books, read by our children and grandchildren as the people who’s living in it.
:lsarah
Thanks for the insight Sarah.
The Indians are the pelanduk mati di tengah apabila gajah sama gajah berjuang.
Because they choose to be there, sorry to say that.
Quote” Ada 4 orang India mereka hendak menubuhkan 5 buah parti politik dengan mengadakan 10 jawatan.” Unqoute
I think Samy Vellu has a better control and management of the Indian community nitably with his 1 house 1 Professional Program.
Sarah,
You should pick up these issues and post it your blog, so that we can have close perspective on what is actually happening on the ground.
LOL :):):) I will when the times is right.. I need a few weeks more to review this situation :):).
:Dsarah
If P Waytha Moorti didnt sign the MOU, he is still a fugitive. Dont forget the original demand of Hindraf & why was Hindraf outlawed. By appointing him as a dep.minister, Najib has done alot of favor for him personally already. So what is actually the MOU between Najib and him, anybody knows? Anyway i still dont trust these kind of people.
re: “If P Waytha Moorti didnt sign the MOU, he is still a fugitive.”
Hindraf offered the blueprint to Pakatan first.
re: “Dont forget the original demand of Hindraf & why was Hindraf outlawed.”
Uthaya was detained 1.5 years in Kamunting and now serving a 2.5 year sentence in prison for sedition over the framing of their demands (the “ethnic cleansing” charge).
re: “By appointing him as a dep.minister, Najib has done a lot of favor for him personally already.”
He was not the type to enjoy the trappings of being a Pak Menteri who liked being addressed as YB. (One example of somebody basking in her YBship is Hannah Yeoh the first line of her Twitter profile states her Speaker title rather than her other claim “lives for God”.) If he Waytha was such a person, he would not be walking away from the PMO now.
re: “So what is actually the MOU between Najib and him, anybody knows?”
You can read it here, http://www.hindraf.co/index.php/news-statements/1168-mou-hindraf-bn
re: “Anyway i still dont trust these kind of people.”
A friend of mine once said that the ‘misfortune’ of Hindraf is that they do not have telegenic ambassadors. If their spokesman was someone who looks like Nurul Izzah, I’ll bet their saham akan naik.
Re. A friend of mine once said that the ‘misfortune’ of Hindraf is that they do not have telegenic ambassadors.
1. They are lawyers who do not have planning, management and execution skills. While what they put in the blue print is ideal, but the pragmatic side of it is still lacking. They still need to breakdown certain issue into small pieces and address it based on priority. Talk is cheap but doing it is something else;
2. They are impatient, they thought everything can miraculously happen within a short span of 8 months after signing of the MOU; MARA, Tabung Haji, and Felda took years before becoming what they are now. They have gone through various stage of LEARNING CURVE through thick and thin to be successful. Hindarft has none of that yet and not even a team with the right skill sets;
3. To make it worst their community are disentangled from reality where the rich doesn’t help the poor and mind you Hindraf are representing the poor Indian. The rich, the professional, the Cristian and the educated have become “I Am Not Indian Actually”, they look down on their own poor community without they realizing it, yet they expect every other race to treat their poor community much better. In other words, their community plight is the GOMEN and somebody else problem not theirs;
4. Many times I have mentioned that they are many Indian silent followers in this blog but most are quiet like a church mouse; even if they do speak up, they will use a non Indian moniker and hardly contribute for a positive and constructive discussion towards the betterment of their community; all they do is continuously blaming the GOMEN over and over again;
5. Sadly they will only speak up once I use the word “KELING PARIAH” just incite them to speak up and to hear their POV. Frankly the Indian can’t forever expect everybody else to speak on their behalf, but they themselves have to start voice out what is deep seeded inside them. Granted, this is just a blog but a least the restriction of all sort protocol and barriers is almost non existence;
6. “CERTAIN PEOPLE” think that writing about the Indian issue is not relevant for the poor Indians don’t speak English, but that is beside the point for the purpose of dialogue is to highlight a scenario, points, issues with a positive notes and hoping the Big guys out there hear us and can take a queue from our discussion and findings;
7. P. Waytha Moorthy is a MORON who thinks that long and deep seeded problems that have plagued the poor Indian community for generations can be solved within a short span of 8 months or even 5 years for that matter. Maybe it is true that the Indian community is very much inspired by the Hindi, Tamil or Malayalam movies where problems can be solved through good versus evil kind of standoff;
8. Finally, the Indian have to think hard from now on about their poor community going forward, never mind about the rich, the professional and the Christian and the educated for they are no longer an Indian. This country may not be the best country that have hosted your community in the entire world but basing on where you guys actually came from and the scenario around the globe that have inflicted your people e.g. Sri Lanka, Singapore Riot (though not topical but the race element is still there), THE INDIAN COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY THE POOR WILL REMAIN AS A “PARIAH” IF THEY HAVE NOT STARTED TO THINK AND WORK IN SYNC from now on.
re: “Talk is cheap but doing it is something else”
Bottomline: Najib did not provide the budget.
re: “MARA, Tabung Haji, and Felda took years before becoming what they are now”
There is no reason why Felda should not be open to DEWs. Why reinvent the wheel? Just absorb the Indians who are willing to till the land into Felda now. (note: There are Indians in Felda but a very, very small number.)
re: “Hindraf are representing the poor Indian.”
It’s not just that. One blogger monitored the noise in the media regarding protests against the new MRT route. When the track cuts across the rich areas, the media attention is great, e.g. TTDI residents. However when it runs through the poor areas, the media goes not provide the platform for the poorer householders to voice their objections.
For example the Allah issue, and we recently heard Francissca Peter, KJ John and others with the Western names. On the Hindu issues, the media focus is not comparable except maybe in the Tamil press but we (the non-Tamilians) can’t read.
re: “The rich, the professional, the Christian and the educated have become “I Am Not Indian Actually”, they look down on their own poor community without they realizing it, yet they expect every other race to treat their poor community much better. In other words, their community plight is the GOMEN and somebody else problem not theirs”
I have no disagreement.
re: “Many times I have mentioned that they are many Indian silent followers in this blog but most are quiet like a church mouse; even if they do speak up, they will use a non Indian moniker and hardly contribute for a positive and constructive discussion towards the betterment of their community; all they do is continuously blaming the GOMEN over and over again”
We have ‘Penang Macha’ now (not silent follower).
re: “CERTAIN PEOPLE” think that writing about the Indian issue is not relevant for the poor Indians don’t speak English, but that is beside the point for the purpose of dialogue is to highlight a scenario, points, issues with a positive notes and hoping the Big guys out there hear us and can take a queue from our discussion and findings”
Yes, their issues need an airing beyond the Indian and Tamil-reading community.
re: “movies where problems can be solved through good versus evil kind of standoff”
Their family drama also like that what :) The Dapsters like to repeat that one brother is sitting in the PMO while the other one is in a prison cell, and Waytha took his Senator’s oath on the very same day that Uthaya was carted away to jail.
Re. Bottomline: Najib did not provide the budget.
How much budget are you talking about? I believe there are certain things that they actually conceal. As I said, if they break the issue into small pieces based on priority, the request will be more acceptable and manageable.
You can’t just demand RM100 million at once….
Re. (note: There are Indians in Felda but a very, very small number.)
This is one example of small things that they need to focus on. I am not sure whether you remember that I have commented about relocation program to manage the gangsterism among the poor Indian youth.
Pusat Giat Mara is another example.
Re. It’s not just that. One blogger monitored the noise in the media regarding protests against the new MRT route……..
For example the Allah issue, and we recently heard Francissca Peter, KJ John and others with the Western names. On the Hindu issues, the media focus is not comparable except maybe in the Tamil press but we (the non-Tamilians) can’t read.
As I said, Hindraf doesn’t have enough or the right skill sets, media savvy is one of them.
Re. ‘Penang Macha’
Very few, PenangDude, CheDebt, Calvin Sankaran, but still the focus is never on their community plight. Plus, all of the hate me.
WHY ARE WE TALKING ON THEIR BEHALF AGAIN?
If Hindraf is not getting any funds then tell me where does this go to? –
“Dalam pembentangan Bajet lalu, kerajaan menyediakan peruntukan sebanyak RM100 juta bagi meningkatkan pencapaian pelajaran dan latihan kemahiran untuk masyarakat India.
Di samping itu, dana sebanyak RM50 juta disediakan untuk Skim Pembiayaan Usahawan Muda India (SPUMI) di bawah Tabung Ekonomi Kumpulan Usaha Niaga (TEKUN).”
(http://www.astroawani.com/news/show/walau-minoriti-kerajaan-tetap-utama-kebajikan-kaum-india-k-k-eswaran-24921)
Then there’s also the Skim Pembiayaan Ekonomi Desa Kaum India (SPEDI)
I think 8 months is not long enough to judge if the PM is sincere about working with Hindraf. If Hindraf is giving up on negotiating with the government, then who do they want to work with?
re: ” If Hindraf is giving up on negotiating with the government, then who do they want to work with?”
Statement by K.Selvam, Deputy Chair Hindraf
“Hindraf will continue its struggle for the Indian poor to alleviate their poverty and regain their dignity and rights.
Hindraf rose as the voice of the poorer segment of Indians in Malaysia due to growing disenfranchisement amongst the community with constant denial of access to opportunities due to acute economic and political mismanagement that is clearly manifested towards the marginalized Indians since the displacement of Indians from the estates since 1980.
The issues pertaining to the Indian community ranges from lack of programs for students from poor or financially deprived background, absence of laws to safeguards the socio-economic interest of the forcefully relocated estate workers, discriminative employment opportunity both in government and private sectors, the poor state of Tamil schools, arbitrary and insensitive handling of Hindu temples, religious matter such as conversion as well the ongoing negative profiling of Indians by the police authorities and the treatment received by them with selective persecution.
The above issue had expounded one truth, that the Indians have been systematically marginalized.
Although the New Economic Policy (NEP) was aimed at eventual eradication of poverty, its implementation within the framework of the race-based system of governance led to a state of affairs where poverty and inequality had only exacerbated for the poorer segment of Indian community.
Hindraf is a strong advocate of Human dignity and rights. Human dignity is intertwined with human rights to transcend a social order within a community as an inherent valuable member of the human community. In Malaysia, for the poorer segment of the community both their dignity and basic rights continue to be raped with unshackled impunity.
The legitimate socio-economic issues that continue unabated towards this community cannot be swept under the carpet as it is not going to go away but requires a political courage from the current administration.
Hindraf is a movement of consciousness based on human dignity and human rights to alleviate chronic poverty that is widespread amongst the Malaysian Indians, therefore we will continue our struggle in ensure the human dignity and rights of the poor shall be defended at all cost against any marginalization and discriminative practice.”
The budget announcement that you cite was made 3.5 months ago (Oct). Have you seen any concrete follow through?
BEEP promised RM32 billion :) and the announcement of it was made in Sept 2013. Any news?
It’s quite amazing how easily Najib throws around hundreds of millions like Dana Pembiayaan Harta Intelek, 200 juta ringgit (see 2013 Budget speech).
“Dalam Bajet 2010, Kerajaan telah mewujudkan Skim Pembiayaan Teknologi Hijau (SPTH) dengan dana berjumlah 1.5 bilion ringgit untuk tempoh 3 tahun”
SPEDI was not mentioned in the Budget. I’ll look it up and get back to you.
Ok, have Googled Spedi. Nothing much online.
With the Felda folks, you know they are there.
Spedi has been around some years. It’s not a new initiative. Where can I find some Spedi people?
It was there in the 70’s when Tun Razak started the green revolution (Buku Hijau). You can find them in Temerloh, Gemas in pockets. Never revived after that and none been given after the 80’s. Infact during that time Malaysians were encouraged to clear the forest and cultivate agriculture, many Indians who did this ended with nothing because the govenment bulldozed through and evicted them. Not even a reprieve or alternative solution.
I have a very strong feeling that the tussle and deadlock are due to the “Show Me The Money” scenario, which the GOMEN has strong reservation.
Every sen would have been accounted for if the mechanisms are put in place. Disbursement would still have to be made through the treasury and the various arms of the Malay-dominated bureaucracy.
It’s not like Najib would be stuffing wads of cash into Waytha’s back pocket.
Waytha is an activist. He has been since he was young. They (activists) operate differently from chameleon career politicians. Waytha did not rise up through the backbiting, backstabbing political ranks, you must remember that.
His and Hindraf’s temperament would be closer to the PSM rather than to Selangor Gold-Glory-Gospel-Greedy DAP — the Developer Above People party.
As I said, it goes back to their planning, management and execution skill sets which is lacking to start with, and they may be asking for a lump sum.
Can they actually tell everyone or go to the papers and bear it all i.e. what have been done and why it is not moving. As it is now, we are only hearing a general statement over the scenario and from one side only.
I remember a quote from Shadow Banker (who is an Indian working in Singapore) where he said “NEVER TRUST THE INDIAN”.
I suspect that Shadow Banker goes by the pseudonym ‘Wenger Khairy’.
Ok, I’ve read the statement by K. Selvam, twice, and I still do not get what they plan to do after Waytha quits, or who they plan to work with.
I don’t know about Spedi also just that its through SME bank. That’s one of the main weakness of the government. They have set up a lot of grants and incentive programmes for different target groups but the information stops at the government agencies responsible while the rakyat do not have a clue. And I think that is also part of the failure of the political parties in the BN who are actually clueless about all the available incentives the government has to offer and therefore cannot pass the info on to their members.
Back to the topic – if Hindraf don’t think they can work with BN then who are they going to work with to come up with workable solutions to their problems?
The thing is people think that whatever is in the budget will happen immediately. I’m sure it doesn’t. Maybe for “normal” on-going operational programmes, but for others I’m quite sure there are processes and procedures before it becomes a reality.
Hindraf should have set reasonable targets and given them to PM and then maybe both parties can work towards realising the goals. But I just can’t see the wheels of government working over a short 8-month period.
re: “Ok, I’ve read the statement by K. Selvam, twice, and I still do not get what they plan to do after Waytha quits, or who they plan to work with.”
You know what, neither can I. But that’s their follow-up statement and what they’re saying to the public for now.
re: “That’s one of the main weakness of the government. They have set up a lot of grants and incentive programmes for different target groups but the information stops at the government agencies responsible while the rakyat do not have a clue.”
I concur.
re: “And I think that is also part of the failure of the political parties in the BN who are actually clueless about all the available incentives the government has to offer and therefore cannot pass the info on to their members.”
Am in agreement with you again.
re: “Back to the topic – if Hindraf don’t think they can work with BN then who are they going to work with to come up with workable solutions to their problems?”
True. The Indian problems still remain and can only worsen. Please do me a little favour and read (or reread) the Hang Babeuf deranged rant. I really need some other person to understand what sane people are up against. https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/hindraf-deputy-minister-resigns-pakatan-full-of-hate-and-spite/
re: “The thing is people think that whatever is in the budget will happen immediately. I’m sure it doesn’t. Maybe for “normal” on-going operational programmes, but for others I’m quite sure there are processes and procedures before it becomes a reality.”
Since the Budgets are annual, we tend to get the impression that whatever is planned will be translated into action within the year.
re: “Hindraf should have set reasonable targets and given them to PM and then maybe both parties can work towards realising the goals.”
The targets are contained in the blueprint, particularly on the DEWs. The displacement sparked off a chain reaction on the problems, like unemployment of the family breadwinner, under-achievement in school by the kids, exposure to unhealthy elements (gangsterism) and its a whole vicious circle of poverty trap.
re: “But I just can’t see the wheels of government working over a short 8-month period.”
Not just the drag of the bureaucracy but the hostile climate. Like I said, some of the Umno ministers were baying for Waytha’s head/resignation, the “dead ends” (Hindraf’s words), the lack of access to the PM.
Waytha as a deputy does not attend the weekly Wednesday cabinet meetings which is only for the minister. This means that if he wants to see the PM, he has to make a formal appointment through the protocol channels. I wouldn’t be surprised if the red tape had been deliberately wound around him.
We can see the antagonism against him from many Umno bloggers and some Umno apparatchiks. So it shouldn’t be any surprise that this belligerence was shared by those walking in the corridors of Putrajaya.
True. Waythamoorthy experienced the cold-shoulder treatment and stonewalling from the officials in the Ministry, who are allied with Umno. MIC also treated Waythamoorthy as an antagonist and baulked at the thought of working with him. To MIC, he is a rival that was encroaching on their turf.
He was given a seat in there as part of Najib’s ‘Nambekei’ plan to bring back the Indian votes. That did not really work to plan; the majority of Indians still voted for the Opposition.
What they did not tell him is he was just window-dressing with no real power to make any change. Now that he has served his purpose, he was tossed aside. The remarks thrown at him by government supporters have been harsher than those written by the likes of Hang Babeuf.
It was only a matter of time before his exit. What few Indian support that Najib has managed to win back is lost. But why does it matter? The election is already over.
Hindraf: Where’s the donation money ?
Hindraf activist V Ganabatirau has accused the outlawed movement’s leader P Waythamoorthy of using millions of ringgit collected from the people for his personal use while in self-imposed exile in London.
He said funds collected by the movement for the Hindraf 5 who were detained under the Internal Security Act (ISA) from December 2007, never reached them or their families.
“Initially funds were collected by highlighting the suffering of the so- called Hindraf 5. From Dec 13, 2007, the focus was changed to highlighting the suffering of our family members. The total collected runs into millions of ringgit,” he said when asked to comment on the funds.
“My family did not receive a single sen. When questioned, Waythamoorthy,the de facto head, claimed that the funds were meant for a civil suit that was to be filed against the British government.”
But the suit expired as civil matters must be pursed within three months after being filed.
“I believe that the suit was deliberately allowed to expire so that he could enjoy his exile and the good life in London.
“All our hopes vanished with Waythamoorthy when he did not pursue the suit.
“The public had high hopes. We only wanted the plight of poor and marginalised Indians here to be exposed. Not for the money,” said Ganabatirau (right).
Wayathamoorthy had last week claimed in an interview with Malaysiakini that the suit was foiled by the Malaysian government and police.
But Ganabatirau rubbished the reasoning, saying that this could “never be accepted”.
“Why should he go for a pilgrimage to India on Nov 27, 2007?” Ganabatirau asked, recalling the events that led the detention of five Hindraf leaders in Kamunting under the ISA. According to Ganabatirau, Waythamoorthy personally assured him that the suit would be filed. The former lawyer also denied that Waythamoorthy was the movement’s treasurer. In fact, Hindraf was registered as an business enterprise and as such, there was no need for a treasurer, he said Ganabatirau also said the rift in Hindraf began after the suit failed to materialise. “Uthayakumar accused me of being a Special Branch (SB) agent because I raised the issue about the suit,” he said when asked to comment on allegations that he was a government spy.
http://tunkuaisha.blogspot.com/2009/08/hindraf-wheres-donation-money.html
HINDRAF RELEASES ACCOUNTS FOR PUBLIC SCRUTINY
http://www.thesundaily.my/node/146631
(The Sun Daily)
GEORGE TOWN (Jan 28, 2010): The Hindu Rights Action Front (Hindraf) today made public a report of its accounts, to counter what chairman P. Waytha Moorthy called “unfounded and malicious allegations” that it had misappropriated money collected mainly from the public.
In a statement, Waytha Moorthy, now in exile in the UK, said at the time he was not in the country and had no access to the alleged funds, and added that the Hindraf Enterprise account was solely within the control of T. Vasantha Kumar, another ISA detainee, whom Waytha Moorthy claims is a police officer.
“The total amount collected for and on behalf of Hindraf by Hindraf Enterprise has to be made public and accounted for by ASP Vasantha Kumar,” he said.
“We are only accounting for that portion of the money that came into our possession by the transfers made by ASP Vasantha Kumar.
He said the total funds received from Hindraf Enterprise and subsequently placed in the care of trusted individuals was RM119,814.20
He said a sum of RM50,000 that was collected from the public to bail Hindraf founder P. Uthayakumar was handed over to Ganapathi Rao Veeraman, one of the ISA detainees who had nominated his brother Paparaidu Veeraman to stand as bailor and deposit the amount in court under his own name.
Neither Paparaidu nor Ganapathi Rao has returned the money to Hindraf, he claimed.
A further sum of RM110,000 was collected through personal donations, initially placed in the hands of Paparaidu, and has now been placed in an interest-bearing clients account of Messrs Kumar Hashimah & Co.
Waytha Moorthy also said a sum of RM110,000 in cash was collected through personal donations, after the ISA detentions of Hindraf leaders on Dec 13, 2007, which has been placed in interest-bearing clients account of Messrs Kumar Hashimah & Co.
“A sum of RM35,000 was banked into my credit card account by ASP Vasanthakumar whilst I was away from the country on Dece 8, 2007, which is now placed in the hands of the accountancy firm,” he added.
He also said the total fines paid for Hindraf supporters charged in court and for their travelling allowances, accommodation and so on was RM111,706.60.
In summary therefore, the total amount that Hindraf has to account for is RM451,617.51.
According to the statement, the expenses incurred so far is RM163,278.05. The balance is RM288,339.46 which includes RM82,182.28 nationwide fund raising dinners organised in 2008 to collect for Hindraf activities, less RM61,090.00 receivables.
In total, RM227,249.46 has been entrusted with the Public Accountant as of Dec 31, 2009, Waytha Moorthy said.
“From the summary of the accounts, one can see that none of the money received from the public by Hindraf has been used to finance any purpose other than what it had been collected for, least of all my stay here in the UK.
“In the first week of January 2008, three weeks after the arrest of the Hindraf lawyers, I had issued media statements urging the public not to donate any money to any middlemen and to channel the funds directly to the affected families,” he added.
The full accounts are also available at http://www.hindraf.org, http://www.makkal.org, http://www.humanrightspartymalaysia.com and http://www.hindraf4you.blogspot.com. — theSun
Still I have doubt, I was an analyst before and I am familiar with window dressing.
V. Ganabatirau is now DAP Kota Alam Shah Adun and Selangor exco.
If you were the GOMEN can you trust them with the money then? I remember Calvin Sankaran mentioned about the compensation being paid be developer for the temple demolition in Kelang to the temple committee members but they “songlap” money and the new committee members were pressing for more.
re: “If you were the GOMEN can you trust them with the money then?”
If you asked the 51% of the voters who voted Pakatan and the additional 2% who did not vote BN, do you think those people feel they can trust the GOMEN with money?
Do you think they want to trust Umno Ministers (think Shahrizat), Umno MBs (think Khir Toyo) with money?
Isn’t your question is self-answering my question?
Whether it is good, bad or ugly the oppo. still don’t trust the Gomen. My question is looking at the track record, shouldn’t the Gomen have doubt.
I still have a strong feeling that they are asking for one lump sum.
And it is unfair for you to be bias towards the GOMEN, when Uthaya himself, has not revealed details of the problems, but only a general statement.
“One lump sum” like how much do you think they’re asking?
Come one lah. On the one hand, the Hindraf critics are saying why don’t they (the movement’s activists) get some work done instead of complaining about the gomen and on the other hand, the Special Unit to implement the blueprint is not being set up.
It’s been 8 months since Waytha was appointed Deputy Minister. What can one man do?
Is it fair to his activists who have been kept in limbo? The Malay general public want them to show some work done. However at the same time, the PMO doesn’t set up the unit. If this is any job offer in the private sector, the job applicant would have already moved on and taken up other jobs.
You cannot expect people to put their working lives on hold for 8 months waiting for the Special Unit to be set up so that they can get to it.
Your insinuations and your aspersions are bordering on slander. What goes around comes around.
If it is so easy for you to impute the worst about Hindraf and nothing that you have any shred of evidence to prove, then it is much easier for the oppo to do the same against Umno and the current government.
And you can bet that the insinuations and aspersions cast by the other side against Umno-government will be more easily believed. And then you (Malays) wonder why 90 percent of the Chinese and now maybe 90 percent of the Indians hate Umno so much.
Treat others how you would like others to treat you. You slander Hindraf now, you will be slandered double the dose soon enough. No, I’m not saying that Hindraf themselves will be doing this.
But you are casting slurs on Hindraf without knowing any facts and so by the same token, the enemies of Umno (Dapsters, Pasters, etc) can just as easily exploit this fallout by giving their own interpret to walkout without the basis of any facts either. And like you already know, the delusional Dapsters are perpetually hysterical so imagine the kind of twists that they can give to this.
So don’t start with all the negative conjectures. Stick to known facts.
Re. It’s been 8 months since Waytha was appointed Deputy Minister. What can one man do?
It goes back to my comment about Hindraf lacking in planning, management and execution skill sets. Didn’t I comment that if he were to breakup the plan into smaller pieces, the project will be more doable, manageable and acceptable.
Re. The Malay general public want them to show some work done. However at the same time, the PMO doesn’t set up the unit
Didn’t you realize over and over again you are blaming the Gomen and now implicating the Malay general public.
Re. If it is so easy for you to impute the worst about Hindraf and nothing that you have any shred of evidence to prove, then it is much easier for the oppo to do the same against Umno and the current government.
Are you accusing me of slandering Hindraf, while I have commented why don’t they reveal full details in paper instead of a general press statement and left it for public speculation.
Do you, yourself, have the first hand news/info. about this issue to know it for sure? Haven’t I asked you to meet Uthaya to get to the crux of the matters?
BTW, read your own comment about Theresa, quote “In situations of mutual distrust, one should be careful that the worst interpretation or connotation is not misconstrued” unquote. Though not related, this is the same situation.
Re. But you are casting slurs on Hindraf without knowing any facts
Read all of my previous comments wrt to this issue and tell me which is the most outrageous slur that I have written in here? In contrary you, yourself, can’t even write a sentence without implicating the GOMEN or Shahrizat into this case.
Re. So don’t start with all the negative conjectures. Stick to known facts.
Have you been able to do that yourself? Again please read my comment above.
re: “It goes back to my comment about Hindraf lacking in planning, management and execution skill sets.”
No, it goes back to Hindraf being stonewalled by the PMO bureaucracy.
re: “The Malay general public want them to show some work done. However at the same time, the PMO doesn’t set up the unit” / “Didn’t you realize over and over again you are blaming the Gomen and now implicating the Malay general public.”
— “over and over again blaming the government” … okay, maybe these Waytha postings have come all at one go.
I should instead have blogged about the deliberate obstacles thrown in his path in a posting in June 2013, and then repeated it in July 2013 and then write a reminder in Aug 2013 followed by a query in Sept 2013.
To paraphrase your advice, break up my complaints into smaller pieces so that they are more acceptable.
To avoid coming across as “over and over again blaming the government”, I should have blogged it separately in Oct 2013, Nov 2013, Dec 2013 and with a bit more urgency in Jan 2014 and now Feb 2014. With slicing my article into manageable pieces, then with luck I can avoid your allegation that I appear to be “over and over again blaming the government” in a flood now.
re: “Are you accusing me of slandering Hindraf”
The news broke two days ago. The resignation is supposed to be handed in today. I haven’t checked the news portals yet. Why don’t you wait first for any forthcoming details instead of casting aspersions?
re: “Haven’t I asked you to meet Uthaya to get to the crux of the matters?”
Friend, you’ve even got the name of the dramatis personae wrong. Uthaya Kumar is the one sitting in Kajang jail. Waytha Moorthy is the one vacating the PM’s Office (PMO).
re: “Read all of my previous comments wrt to this issue and tell me which is the most outrageous slur that I have written in here?”
/QUOTE/ You wrote: “If you were the GOMEN can you trust them with the money then? /UNQUOTE/ Low blow, LOL.
re: “In contrary you, yourself, can’t even write a sentence without implicating the GOMEN or Shahrizat into this case.”
I leave it to the readers to judge whether my implication is fair or not. Shahrizat is given a special appointment with Ministerial status. Does she deserve the rank? (from your earlier comments, you seem to think, ‘Yes’).
Does Waytha deserve to be a (Deputy) Minister? From the right wing comments I’ve been hearing from some Umno leaders, Umno bloggers and Umno supporters, they say ‘No’.
My argument is simple: If his objective is to uplift the lot of the poor Indians, does Waytha deserve a Ministerial portfolio to enable him to carry out the task? If Shahrizat’s objective is to have her family’s company rear cows [“in condos”], does she deserve a Ministerial portfolio to keep her in the corridors of power?
So don’t start with all the negative conjectures. Stick to known facts. It is a fact that the Shahrizat family case is being taken to court.
ADD:
It is a fact that the Shahrizat family case is being taken to court.
Nothing about all the accusations against Waytha which you have made here in your own name and copypasted from elsewhere has been revealed in police papers or taken to court.
So stick to known facts. Enough of casting aspersions.
Re. No, it goes back to Hindraf being stonewalled by the PMO bureaucracy.
and he expects miracle within a short span of 8 months, while it is known fact that bureaucracy will always there. Again, it goes back to his lack of skill sets in managing the issue/problem. If he has had that, he could have brought/highlight it in the media etc. to gain attention with positive vibes.
In politics or organization you don’t the champion the cause on your own, you build network along the way and make use of it.
Re. To avoid coming across as “over and over again blaming the government”
At least you could do to put a sequent of events leading to this.
Re. Why don’t you wait first for any forthcoming details instead of casting aspersions?
Likewise, why don’t you as well.
Re. Friend, you’ve even got the name of the dramatis personae wrong. Uthaya Kumar is the one sitting in Kajang jail. Waytha Moorthy is the one vacating the PM’s Office (PMO).
Ok my mistake.
Re. /QUOTE/ You wrote: “If you were the GOMEN can you trust them with the money then? /UNQUOTE/ Low blow, LOL.
Please read all the report/cooments that leading to my question based on Tunku Anis blog and Shadow Banker’s comment. Don’t just take a piece and disregard the rests. Plus, you have also commented the the 51% voters and 2% BN who don’t trust the government, which I in return said something to the effect of be it good, bad or ugly they still don’t trust the Gomen.
Re. I leave it to the readers to judge whether my implication is fair or not. Shahrizat is given a special appointment with Ministerial status. Does she deserve the rank? (from your earlier comments, you seem to think, ‘Yes’).
She helped deliver the vote to Putrajaya and we don’t, that is the crux of issue. To you, she doesn’t deserve it , but to they guy that matters she does.
Re. Does Waytha deserve to be a (Deputy) Minister? From the right wing comments I’ve been hearing from some Umno leaders, Umno bloggers and Umno supporters, they say ‘No’.
Have I said that before? Have I opposed that before?
Re. My argument is simple: If his objective is to uplift the lot of the poor Indians, does Waytha deserve a Ministerial portfolio to enable him to carry out the task?
What do you think?
Re. If Shahrizat’s objective is to have her family’s company rear cows [“in condos”], does she deserve a Ministerial portfolio to keep her in the corridors of power?
Was that a positive conjecture?
You can’t even separate the works she has done for Wanita UMNO for so many years with condo-cow issue right?
Re. So don’t start with all the negative conjectures. Stick to known facts. It is a fact that the Shahrizat family case is being taken to court.
True and then let the court decide, her family is not guilty until found guilty, plus she is not trial here.
Why Sharizat here is here again, while we are talking about Hindraf and to quote you “Why don’t you wait first for any forthcoming details instead of casting aspersions?”
Re. If their spokesman was someone who looks like Nurul Izzah, I’ll bet their saham akan naik.
What has this FUCK TART done to improve the betterment of the people of her constituency thus far? Name me one.
I said “looks” lah, not achievement or merit.
Helen,
Saya rasa berhentinya Waytha dari kerajaan tak akan memberi apa-apa kesan kepada Najib. Mungkin Hindraf ingat bahawa apabila mereka buat perjanjian dengan kerajaan untuk menaikkan taraf kehidupan masyarakat India, semua peruntukkan mesti disalurkan melalui mereka. Ini satu pandangan yang silap. Mereka harus ingat kerajaan mempunyai banyak saluran untuk merealisasikan harapan masyarakat India, melalui agensi-agensi kerajaan yang berkaitan dengan implimentasinya. Juga kerajaan mempunyai MIC sabagai agen BN untuk melaksanakan impian masyarakat ini. Tidak semestinya melalui hindraf.
Nampaknya taktik Waytha ini adalah untuk menunjukkan kekuatan hindraf sebagai agen perosak kepada UMNO/BN.
Tindakan mereka ini juga untuk mendapat respon yang positif dari AI/PKR memandangkan AI dijangka menjadi MB Selangor jika menang Kajang nanti. Ingat kerajaan Selangor ada RM3bn dalam tabong Khalid Ibrahim. Siapa nak tebuk tabong ini jika bukan tikus-tikus perosak yang sentiasa kelaparan.
Jadi, bagi saya Waytha dan hindraf tak akan berjaya dalam usaha mereka nak tunjuk kuasa mereka.
INGAT UMNO menjadi kerajaan kerana undi Nasionalis Melayu. Agenda Melayu lah yang Najib dan kerajaan kena utamakan. Jika tidak PRU14 ni UMNO mungkin H A B I S.
re: “Saya rasa berhentinya Waytha dari kerajaan tak akan memberi apa-apa kesan kepada Najib.”
PRU14 masih jauh ke depan. Saya rasa atas sebab inilah mereka buat timing dengan bersandarkan impak PRK Kajang.
re: “Mungkin Hindraf ingat bahawa apabila mereka buat perjanjian dengan kerajaan untuk menaikkan taraf kehidupan masyarakat India, semua peruntukkan mesti disalurkan melalui mereka. Ini satu pandangan yang silap.”
Blueprint MoU memperuntukkan belanjawannya yang tersendiri supaya mekanisme yang baru boleh diwujudkan, contohnya untuk menangani masalah DEW (Displaced Estate Workers).
re: “Mereka harus ingat kerajaan mempunyai banyak saluran untuk merealisasikan harapan masyarakat India, melalui agensi-agensi kerajaan yang berkaitan dengan implimentasinya.”
Tahu. Contohnya Tekun dan latihan vokational.
re: “Juga kerajaan mempunyai MIC sabagai agen BN untuk melaksanakan impian masyarakat ini. Tidak semestinya melalui hindraf.”
Kerajaan juga mempunyai MCA :D
re: “Nampaknya taktik Waytha ini adalah untuk menunjukkan kekuatan hindraf sebagai agen perosak kepada UMNO/BN.”
Saya harap tidak.
re: “Tindakan mereka ini juga untuk mendapat respon yang positif dari AI/PKR memandangkan AI dijangka menjadi MB Selangor jika menang Kajang nanti.”
:-O
re: “Ingat kerajaan Selangor ada RM3bn dalam tabong Khalid Ibrahim. Siapa nak tebuk tabong ini jika bukan tikus-tikus perosak yang sentiasa kelaparan.”
Long queue, take number. Di depan barisan ada AA, HY … See, https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/geran-selangorku-rm300j-siapa-cepat-dia-dapat/
Adun Jerusubang yang paling pantas rebut.
re: “Jadi, bagi saya Waytha dan hindraf tak akan berjaya dalam usaha mereka nak tunjuk kuasa mereka.”
Yang Sabbas sebut ialah perhitungan direct.
“Hidden cost” ialah kesan persepsi negatif bahawa BN tidak menepati janji kepada orang India seumpama pada satu masa dulu BN tidak menepati janji kepada Suqiu (kumpulan Cina, 1999). Ia juga akan mengukuhkan persepsi bahawa BN (baca Umno) tidak mengambil pusing sokongan kaum minoriti lagi.
re: “INGAT UMNO menjadi kerajaan kerana undi Nasionalis Melayu. Agenda Melayu lah yang Najib dan kerajaan kena utamakan.”
Secara realistik apa yang dicakapkan oleh Sabbas adalah tepat. Realiti ini diperlihatkan pada kerajaan negeri Perak (DUN) dan kedudukan kerusi Parlimen di semenanjung. Halatuju ini akan membawa kepada ‘perang saudara’: Di satu belah, Melayu-Islam dan di belah lawan, Kristian-Cina dan minoriti-minoriti lain.
re: “Jika tidak PRU14 ni UMNO mungkin H A B I S.”
Saya percaya kalau betul ia terjadi, KJ akan lompat.
Hah, first the Chinese ingrates who spat in the face of najib in the last election.
Now, it’s the indian traitors turned.
Who would be next to turn against you, najib?
Or, are you yourself preparing the final nail in your own coffin?
Takpe, asal ada konsultan.
The politics of the cow. Either to be milked or led to the slaughter house. Wyatha is a great exponent and a by product of the politics of disloyalty, the fireworks and flash of a deepavali night and the excesses and self pity of his caste of Hinduism.
Never one to let an opportunity slip by, Waytha like most of the Indians in Malaysia in his community are waiting for handouts. Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither was Tamil Nadoo.
The Nambekei and Tamil blueprints in the contemplation of government and agreed to by Waytha on behalf of his constituency was not meant to nor capable of being rolled out in a day. If it were the Tamils would have squandered every opportunity and hand out the result of that promise.
Waytha Muthi is playing not for anyone other than Waytha Murthi. he has nothing to offer his party or his constituents. Whose permission or consensus has he sought before embarking on a “Kiss Anwars Butt” exercise?
The Indians (read the Tamils and a handful of Malayalees and Jagahs) will not redeem themselves in this country with the likes of Waytha Murthi or the excessive consumption of alcohol they are known to indulge themselves in. it shows in their politics and in their thinking too.
Apologies for not having something positive to say about these clowns but I have tried. And the cupboard is bare.
Dear Helen,
I believe you are fighting a losing battle by justifying about HIINDRAF’s genuine motive with commentators who are clouded with political affiliation. The fact remains and continues to escape most when they are unable to understand the root cause. I don’t want to keep repeating the same thing over but I did come across an intelligent comment from one of the Malay blog which is as follows:
If is refreshing that someone understands this, because 80% of the community was from the estates. The government sucked them good and left them to dry without any policies or programs to safeguards their socio-economic development. This was the root cause.
What we see now is the result of those wrongdoings and HINDRAF was right to join the government to remedy and rectify those mistakes without just sweeping it under the carpet. Other Indian parties have been there but obviously they never had the courage or will to attend to this root cause.
It defeats the purpose of HINDRAF to stay in the government if those programs initiated cannot be implemented.
As fellow Malaysians and a human being, we need to see beyond politics for the betterment of the whole community. These problems are not going to go away and it is already encountered by the present generation of Indians.
Helen,
One question, I like to post.
Is this movement triggered because MIC started to emerge as the forces of saviour for the INdian?
I means, look at the MIC line-up and you can tell that the majority of them look like an inteligent, new breed of INdian. Look at the representative who represented MIC from all over Malaysia in their congress.
Don’t you see it as a threat to Hindraf by this MIC new image.
:]sarah
They are not on the same playing field. MIC has 2 Ministers & 2 Deputies, and MIC is the second oldest component party of the BN. (MIC was established in August 1946, MCA in February 1949)
Hindraf had one first-time Deputy with no Ministry of his own, and Hindraf is registered as a persatuan.
Hindraf’s constituency is niche — “the poorest of the poor” (to employ a well-known phrase) – so I don’t think that if MIC is able to rebrand itself with a more corporate image that it will affect Hindraf’s core support.
The Indians BEFORE Samy Velu’s leadership in MIC (or JKR for that matter) were more of a low down dirty shame community. (No offence machas but that’s the fact). I really don’t understand why most ungrateful indians hate the every guts of this “Bapa Kemajuan Kaum India” of theirs.
Coming out of the rubber tapping cocoons, their grandfathers were well known as ‘kacang putih’ sellers, or going from house to house lookjng to pay a penny or two for used bottles and old newspapers a.k.a “keling botoi”. At the close of each day, a daily routine visit to the govt. subsidised kedai tuak is a must for a happy hour session. They had establised themselves as the nation’s earliest Pickers to support the pioneers (chinese) of the recycling business back then (but today the Indians are the besi buruk millionaires).
The milestone of the Indians progression in all aspects has reached its heydays & should be considered a tremendous achievement today. While the Malays are still busy in their labs researching and perfecting the formula for kopi-kopi janda (for men) and awet muda (for women) businesses, the Indians are at the edge of monopolising the countries logistics, electronic medias and telecommunications businesses. Before you know it, this same race innovated the commercial airlines services in this region turning aviation companies around through franchising and affilliates. And the list goes on…
Now that we are all learned citizens, (NOT ONLY) the Indians should ask themselves, under whose governance of education provisions did they had managed to come this far?
The chinese have been alarmed by the controversial statement “Apa lagi cina mau?”, now should the Indian be quoted the same? – “APA LAGI HINDU MAU?”
Or Me? Tor For?
Little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge. Please enlighten yourself how ( as you say it – more of a low down dirty shame community) contributed to the nation in its development. http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/sideviews/article/the-indian-contribution-ranjit-singh-malhi/.
This is the problem. Nobody want’s to address the root cause but create their own hallucination within their own four walls.
I haven’t come to part where, after their happy hours they come home to beat the crap out of your grandmothers.
Bukan Melayu saja mudah lupa, Hindu (and all the rest of us) pun mudah lupa!
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/sideviews/article/the-indian-contribution-ranjit-singh-malhi/
Jakun,
I agree it’s dangerous. I always prefer to skip the common details and leave it to the experts inside the box.
Btw, to counter with that site you posted above, the Brits or the East India Co. did not bring them over like “KUNTA KINTES” they were waged and provided with far more modern facilities (comparatively to their country of origin) quarters to breed and shit all at their own freewill.
When they left you people, citizenship was granted.
“What the hell do you want more from me?!”
– except from George Michael – Everything She Wants.
Great hit song!
The Indian Dilemma book I quoted said that 20 percent of the Indian estate workers (during the NEP era) were illiterate.
Yes Helen besides citizenship and education, the rights to vote and candidancy for MPs & ADUNs were also given pun, Melayu tetap tak cukup baik jugak for them?
Which is which? Malays leaders past and present are TERLAMPAU BAIK or Malays are REALLY MORONS?
re: “besides citizenship and education, the rights to vote and candidancy for MPs & ADUNs were also given pun, Melayu tetap tak cukup baik jugak for them?”
Don’t you think that the Malaysian government has got duties to its citizens of Indian ethnicity?
(1) Citizenship: The Indians face a problem of statelessness, i.e. no proper papers. Remember the recent case of the Indian girl who tried to commit suicide because she could not go to Form 1 due to not having a MyKad?
(2) Education: Only 148 Tamil schools are fully funded by the govt while the remaining 378 are partially funded. Their conditions are bad. (stats year 2005 refers)
(3) Yes they have a right to vote but there is no seat anywhere with an Indian majority except Buntong, Perak (48% Indian, 44% Chinese, 6% Malay). The Indians can vote in MPs and Aduns but they will have to give their votes to Malay or Chinese candidates mostly.
(4) If the government had been fulfilling its duties fairly, do you think that such a large segment of its citizenry would be so hostile and so resentful?
re: “Melayu tetap tak cukup baik jugak for them?”
I do not agree with the confrontational, hostile attitude as well as the perpetual screaming of racist and their EBU! EBU! EBU! attitude. I also do not see eye to eye with the oppo on many facets of their behaviour.
But be fair to the Indians. Of course there are successful ones. Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan is one. But how many Indians are Tony F, Ananda K and the Westports boss?
Is it fair to demand a halt to all gomen programmes assisting the Malays and say why not Daim, Syed Mokhtar Albukhary, Azman Hashim, the Nasimuddin family, Shahril/Shahriman Shamsuddin help the Malays instead of the needy Malays depending on the gomen?
Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the names of Ananda Krishnan and Tony Fernandes invoked every time anyone brings up the problems of marginalized Indians.
Don’t you think that the Malaysian government has got duties to its citizens of Indian ethnicity?
(1) Citizenship: The Indians face a problem of statelessness, i.e. no proper papers. Remember the recent case of the Indian girl who tried to commit suicide because she could not go to Form 1 due to not having a MyKad?
So bila beranak dan lupa nak daftar lepas tu salahkan GOMEN, sebab tegas dalam hal ini. Fyi, they are many Indians from India are currently residing here in Malaysia as well and it has been going on for a long time.
Shouldn’t Hindraf takes on this issue head on?
(2) Education: Only 148 Tamil schools are fully funded by the govt while the remaining 378 are partially funded. Their conditions are bad. (stats year 2005 refers)
Don’t they have SKB as alternative? In fact there are cases where one SJKT has only one student before and many have few students only.
Note: Please don’t highlight Sekolah Sri Pristina case in here, it is already a learning curve for the GOMEN on that aspect.
(3) Yes they have a right to vote but there is no seat anywhere with an Indian majority except Buntong, Perak (48% Indian, 44% Chinese, 6% Malay). The Indians can vote in MPs and Aduns but they will have to give their votes to Malay or Chinese candidates mostly.
Segamat without Indian majority, has been MIC seat for so many years.
(4) If the government had been fulfilling its duties fairly, do you think that such a large segment of its citizenry would be so hostile and so resentful?
I have commented enough wrt this plus UMNO/BN has apologize to the Indian community.
Re. Is it fair to demand a half to all gomen programmes assisting the Malays and say why not Daim, Syed Mokhtar Albukhary, Azman Hashim, the Nasimuddin family, Shahril/Shahriman Shamsuddin help the Malays instead of the needy Malays depending on the gomen?
Except for Daim, the rest are already doing it. I have already commented that the deal is that they are to reinvest back into the community in various ways, unknown to most.
Re. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the names of Ananda Krishnan and Tony Fernandes invoked every time anyone brings up the problems of marginalized Indians.
I have commented before, shouldn’t they start some sort of affirmative action program wrt their own community.
re: “So bila beranak dan lupa nak daftar lepas tu salahkan GOMEN”
There are all kinds of red tape. Even when the applicant qualifies, it is still rejected. These cases are occasionally highlighted in the media.
re: “Don’t they have SKB as alternative?”
I’m not arguing with you here. It’s an issue the Indian community needs to resolve for themselves. The Chinese community (me included) overwhelmingly want the vernacular option.
re: “Segamat without Indian majority, has been MIC seat for so many years.”
BN has a better kongsi spirit than Pakatan. There have been a few notable seats where BN has put up an MIC candidate because of the sizeable Indian minority electorate but Pakatan puts up Malay candidates for the same seats. This is also a reason why my blog is not pro-Pakatan (the Anak Bangsa Malaysia hypocrites!).
re: “If the government had been fulfilling its duties fairly, do you think that such a large segment of its citizenry would be so hostile and so resentful?” / “plus UMNO/BN has apologize to the Indian community”
Well if BN has apologized, then I shall take it as an admission that the Indians have been unfairly neglected.
re: “Except for Daim, the rest are already doing it. I have already commented that the deal is that they are to reinvest back into the community in various ways, unknown to most.”
Okay, I’m willing to take your word for it. So because Yayasan al-Bukhary et al are contributing to the upliftment of Malay community, can I now say that there is no more need for the gomen to carry out any programmes for the Malays?
Because that’s the arguments I’m hearing wrt the Indians. Some Malay commenters in this blog keep saying that if there are no (or very few) affirmative action programmes for Indians (since these programmes are reserved for Bumiputera only), why not ask the Indian billionaires to take up the burden.
re: “I have commented before, shouldn’t they start some sort of affirmative action program wrt their own community.”
You can give them a prod by writing Open Letter to Ananda and Tony :)
Re. There are all kinds of red tape. Even when the applicant qualifies, it is still rejected. These cases are occasionally highlighted in the media.
True. Shouldn’t leader from their community champion this issue and resolve it nation wide once and for all.
Re. The Chinese community (me included) overwhelmingly want the vernacular option.
The Chinese have the economic means and network to support and absorb the students. The Indians don’t, thus living them being further marginalized from main stream society. I have said before, “Bahasa Tamil” does not have economic value in business world, not even in India.
Re. can I now say that there is no more need for the gomen to carry out any programmes for the Malays?
It is not just Yayasan Al Bukhary, part of their income are channeled back into Mara and the likes, so that the Gomen don’t have to rely much other sources.
Re. why not ask the Indian billionaires to take up the burden.
That’s the whole purpose in Sustainable Business Development.
What is Sustainable Development?
Environmental, economic and social well-being for today and tomorrow
http://www.iisd.org/sd/
Re. You can give them a prod by writing Open Letter to Ananda and Tony :)
Why don’t all of the Indian followers in this blog write a petition and garner full support for this issue?
re: Except for Daim, the rest are already doing it. I have already commented that the deal is that they are to reinvest back into the community in various ways, unknown to most.
Can give some example? Why much these tycoons have donated or contributed in comparison with the wealth that they have amassed?
A good case of uplifting the life of the underprivileged.
Aravind Eye Hospitals and Dr Govindappa Venkataswamy (Dr V)
[YouTube]
Re. Can give some example?
Why do you think Tan Sri Syed Bukhari gets many contracts to the irk of the Chinese Business community. The Penang port is the latest incident. However, his charity works began long before that. Al Bukhary Foundation is one example.
Tan Sri Azman Hashim has pledged RM1 billion of his money to various charities and cause. Please read about Azman Hashim Complex in UIA and how it helps to support poor students.
Note: The Muslim Malays as much as they can will not reveal their good and generous deed for publication as it will tantamount to riak (showing off) thus it is considered a sin in Islam. Thus many good deeds go unnoticed.
Re. Why much these tycoons have donated or contributed in comparison with the wealth that they have amassed?
This is called sustainable business development. I have posted about this somewhere in here.
re: Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the names of Ananda Krishnan and Tony Fernandes invoked every time anyone brings up the problems of marginalized Indians.
Exactly, the wealth of these people belongs to themselves. The wealth are not enjoyed by ordinary Indians. The same is applied to poor Chinese. The wealth of Vincent Tan has nothing to do with the ordinary Chinese. Same goes to the poor Malays.
Re. Exactly, the wealth of these people belongs to themselves
That’s why the GOMEN is very selective in giving the contract now.
Re. Same goes to the poor Malays.
The is the latest breed of the businessman who reinvest 50% back to the community.
http://www.albukharyfoundation.org/
re: The is the latest breed of the businessman who reinvest 50% back to the community.
50%??? If a tycoon has a wealth of RM10 bil, 50% is RM5 bil. What is the wealth of Syed Mokhtar? And how much the foundation contributed to the society? I would speculate that the value of the donation made by the foundation is less than 1% of his wealth. He would keep 99% of wealth to his own. Please proof me wrong.
Re. I would speculate that the value of the donation made by the foundation is less than 1% of his wealth. He would keep 99% of wealth to his own
Please read about sustainable development. Part of it will be seen via business expansion and job creations. Tan Sri Syed Mokhtar used drive in Perdana and he has only one car and one house.
Please google his story.
Please also read about the Ar Rahji Bank founder who gave up everything that he has to charity where all of the income from Ar Rahji groups goes back community.
re: Penang Port?
The community that should be irked is not the Chinese. Overwhelming majority of the management and staff in Penang Port are Malays. MD is a head of an UMNO division. Chairman is also from UMNO. Now Syed Mokhtar are replacing them with his own people in order to boost profitability. Not to mention the Federal Government sold the port cheaply.
Not only PR objected to this deal, even BN did. Port is an asset of national importance. Why sold to private businessman?
re: The is the latest breed of the businessman who reinvest 50% back to the community.
If you have RM1,000 in your pocket and somebody approached you for donation, would you give RM500?
re: This is called sustainable business development. I have posted about this somewhere in here.
Can I trouble you to repost it here?
re: Penang Port?
Why do you think the GOMEN let if off at the low price, if they expect something in return?
Re. Why sold to private businessman?
Read my comment about giving back to the community.
Re. If you have RM1,000 in your pocket and somebody approached you for donation, would you give RM500?
Read back about the approach giving back to the society via economic expansion, job creations, education, community services etc. Charity is not limited in giving money or donation alone but it has evolved into providing opportunity.
re: This is called sustainable business development. I have posted about this somewhere in here.
What is Sustainable Development?
Environmental, economic and social well-being for today and tomorrow
http://www.iisd.org/sd/
This new development did not surprise me.
His resignation has been received with glee by the ethno-nationalists allied to the Tun on Facebook.
I picked up this comment from a commentator in Annie’s blog, which I believe sums up all about Hindraf.
quote,” As long as Hindraf is an auxiliary organization under the constraints of caste-ridden Brahmanism, the poor and the untouchables shall never see the light of social liberty and the dignity of human conscience.”unquote.
Duh.
Undeniably there is still that clannishness plus their own sub-ethnic divisiveness according to dialect group (which corresponds with city/district of origin but they don’t practise caste system here (like untouchables) anymore lah, for heaven’s sake.
We all also the same what. In Penang, the islanders also pandang serong the Penang mainlanders last time. The Kelantanese are so parochial. There is the jaringan mamak in the north. So why make as if Indians are the only ones, and then try to absolve the government of blame for their condition by pretending that it is because of the “caste system” inherited from India?
If anything, the government policies are more responsible. Someone upthread cited how successful the Indians are in the USA. Also originate from the same mother culture, what.
Re. So why make as if Indians are the only ones, and then try to absolve the government of blame for their condition by pretending that it is because of the “caste system” inherited from India?
Haven’t talked about this that they are never in sync from within, unlike the Malays and Chinese.
Re. Someone upthread cited how successful the Indians are in the USA. Also originate from the same mother culture, what.
Those are the high caste Indian fyi. Just like in the UK, as they move up the ladder, they will rope in their extended family.
The same reason that you attribute to ‘caste’ applies to family and networking.
We see it in the DAP cronyism. Evangelistas Hannah Yeoh and Tony Pua roped in their personal assistants evangelista Rajiv Rishyakaran and evangelista Yeo Bee Yin to become Aduns.
Lim Kit Siang’s pol-sec Kasthuri Patto is a new MP in Penang. Lee Kee Hiong, another former aide to Kit Siang is new S’gor Adun.
Guan Eng’s pol-secs Ng Wei Aik and Zairil are both MPs. This roping in is cronyism, not caste.
Please learn to differentiate between political maneuvering and economic migration.
What you call “political maneuvering” (the opportunities given to LGE & LKS’s polsecs and HY & Tony’s evangelista PAs) is cronyism.
You claim that the high caste factor is at play with regard to the economic migration of Indians to the UK.
You and some other Malay commenters here prefer to ascribe the “caste system” as the reason for the poverty of Indians in Malaysia rather than to admit government policies have exacerbated the marginalization of Indians.
For the UK situation, if you want to argue “caste” — i.e. the low caste Indians would not have had the means to make it in the UK and be accepted as citizens and then proceed to rope in more members of their caste as immigrants to UK — I can equally argue that it is nepotism. They are roping in, first and foremost family and relatives, rather than broadly same caste members.
For the DAP situation, I have said that it is cronyism. However if I wanted to play Devil’s advocate, I can say (just like you say), that it is a “caste system”, i.e. in the case of Rajiv, Yeo Bee Yin and Lee Kee Hiong, the evangelista factor is at play.
However, cronyism is still a better explanation than [evangelista high] caste because Zairil and Ng Wei Aik are not evangelistas.
I do not see that your excuse of “caste system” to absolve the government’s culpability in the deteriorating socio-economic conditions of the poor Indians can be very convincing.
Re. You claim that the high caste factor is at play with regard to the economic migration of Indians to the UK.
Let me rephrase. The high caste Indian has the mean to migrate (economic migration) as compared to low caste and poor Indian. Again they will only rope in their own caste instead of helping the community across the board. The caste system is deeply rooted into the society, it doesn’t change for it whim and fancy.
This is different from political maneuvering. Do you think Lim Kit Siang appointed a Malay girl graduated from UiTM as his Political Secretary because he truly believes in her?
Why did Tunku Azis resign from DAP?
Why does Zairil insist that he is a Malay?
Re. You and some other Malay commenters here prefer to ascribe the “caste system” as the reason for the poverty of Indians in Malaysia rather than to admit government policies have exacerbated the marginalization of Indians.
Please don’t put word in my mouth. Please read all my comments about the Indian community before in previous entry. I have in fact said that the government has failed them.
Plus, I have worked wrt to underprivileged Indians and and it is known fact the rich don’t help the poor, plus they together with the professional, educated and the Christian have become ” I am not Indian Only”.
Many of the times you have also agreed with me, and now you are turning back and say otherwise?
Isn’t my contention all this while is that their failure as community is due to their inability to work in sync, and to you quote you “ada 4 orang Indian, mereka hendak menubuhkan 5 buah parti politik dengan mengadakan 10 jawatan” .
Re. I do not see that your excuse of “caste system” to absolve the government’s culpability in the deteriorating socio-economic conditions of the poor Indians can be very convincing.
Again Please don’t put word in my mouth.
P.S
Please read my original comment on this issue, while all I was saying is that the high caste Indian migrated to the US and the UK, and you went all the way accusing me wrt the caste system.
re: “Again they will only rope in their own caste instead of helping the community across the board.”
They will rope in their family members and relatives.
re: “The caste system is deeply rooted into the society, it doesn’t change for it whim and fancy.”
(1) Can you please cite me a recent academic paper on this?
(2) Can you also cite me a paper wrt to this claim specific to the Indians in Malaysia?
re: “Do you think Lim Kit Siang appointed a Malay girl graduated from UiTM as his Political Secretary because he truly believes in her?”
I agree that the Malay girl LKS pol-sec is political maneuvering. However the case of HY’s PA becoming Bkt Gasing Adun is nepotism based on their evangelical Christianity rather than Race factor.
re: “Plus, I have worked wrt to underprivileged Indians and and it is known fact the rich don’t help the poor, plus they together with the professional, educated and the Christian have become “I am not Indian Only”. / “Many of the times you have also agreed with me, and now you are turning back and say otherwise?”
I still agree with you. Let’s also agree to leave the “caste” argument out.
re: “Isn’t my contention all this while is that their failure as community is due to their inability to work in sync, and to you quote you ‘ada 4 orang Indian, mereka hendak menubuhkan 5 buah parti politik dengan mengadakan 10 jawatan’.”
I think so too. There’s Hindraf, and MIC, PPP, IPF, Kimma, Makkal Sakti … compared to the Chinese DAP, DAP, DAP, DAP, DAP.
re: “Please read my original comment on this issue, while all I was saying is that the high caste Indian migrated to the US and the UK, and you went all the way accusing me wrt the caste system.”
Okay, let’s clarify now. You said, “The caste system is deeply rooted into the society, it doesn’t change for it whim and fancy.”
Do you agree with the other on this page, see ‘grkumar’ and ‘setem’?
Re. They will rope in their family members and relatives.
Still the key word is their own caste first. It is only natural family help family first.
re: “The caste system is deeply rooted into the society, it doesn’t change for it whim and fancy.”
Not very specific but there is a portion on the issue. FYI, the Indian don’t this kind of study much. I think I have forwarded you the outline before.
Click to access The_Dynamics_and_Dilemma_of_the_Tamils%27_Festival_in_malaysia_%28PPIlmu_Kemanusiaan%29.pdf
Re. Okay, let’s clarify now. You said, “The caste system is deeply rooted into the society, it doesn’t change for it whim and fancy.”
Why must Wathya emphasize in one of his press statement that though he is a Malayalam he is still an Indian? (I think I read it somewhere in here)
Or can a Gujerati marries a Tamil without any family resistance?
A case in point, my sister neighbor in Kelang are both Indian, on the right is a fair skin Indian family and on the left is a dark skin Indian family. One day the fair-skin-Indian-family 5 years old daughter came to my sister and told her “Auntie, only fair skin Indian are my relative and not dark skin Indian”. Who could have taught her that.
Rina or someone in here commented before that an Indian friend of a lower caste married a doctor and her family are allowed to visit her. Whenever they come over they will only be greeted at the gate. Why is that so?
Are Fracisca Peters, Jacklyn Victor, Tony Fernandes, and the likes are of the same caste of Samy Vellu?
Re. Do you agree with the other on this page, see ‘grkumar’ and ‘setem’?
grkumar’s comment basically reflect my first comment on “LOL Februari 9, 2014 at 2:03 pm” unless he has other comment that I haven’t read.
Setem’s POV is based on the macro perspective on what has been done and available to the Indian community and he is not wrong with his view, but the issue at stake here is the micro perspective of the actual stage of the poor Indian community here.
Do you agree with the popular argument that the reason (or part of the reason) some Indians in Malaysia have remained poor is because the Indian community here still practices the caste system?
Sadly yes. Bersatu Teguh Bercerai Roboh.
Have you read any news during Deepavali where corporates sponsored the poor Indian Children to go shopping for new clothes? Or jamuan meraikan anak-anak yatim India?
Helen,
It is not the caste system but the attitude of the rich Indians. You included in an earlier post how Jaclynn Victor refused to celebrate Deepavali claiming to be Christian. This is so typical of rich Indians especially Christians who consider themselves Europeans rather than Indians. They look down upon Hindu Indians as uneducated and low class.
Generally I think the problem with Indians is historical and structural. Among the Indians, there is a big gap among rich and poor with 20% hard core poor. I disagree that the govt policies are to be blamed (remember I am from estate too). Rather the failure of the govt to provide assistance when the Indians were displaced was the key problem.
You see when I was younger I even wrote papers (in uni) that for Indians to progress they have to get out of estates. But the prevailing notion was against this. The opposition leaders wanted monthly wages for estate workers and refused to allow migration. They made a big fight over it. So when the Indians were forced to move, they were unprepared. So you can’t really blame the govt though they could have done a better job.
It is the same with the Malays who move from kampung to city, there is no program exist to help them either. That’s one of the reason for drug addiction and mat rempitism among the Malay youths.
This is my view all along even when I was voting DAP.
re: “Generally I think the problem with Indians is historical and structural”
Correct.
re: “the failure of the govt to provide assistance when the Indians were displaced was the key problem”
Correct again.
You got it mixed up. Caste and ethnic groupings are 2 very different things. Tamil, Gujerati, Malayalam, etc are ethnic groups within Indians society just like Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka,etc.
On the other hand caste is defined within the same ethnic group.
In Malaysia, the Tamils make up around 75% of the Indian community due to historical reasons. Other ethnic groups are much smaller.
It is no just in Malaysia, but also in India there is a big divide along the ethnic lines and marriage is still uncommon across it. The big divide is along the South and North Indian ethnic groups though marriage within these groups are more common.
As for caste, there is much caste consciousness in India and there are political parties based along the caste lines even.
In Malaysia, this North South divide is less so though it does exist. But because there is so few north indians in Malaysia, it is hard to say to what extent.
As for caste, I would say that there is a lot less emphasis here and it is getting even lesser by day. People are still conscious but nowhere near the kind of craziness that is in India.
To the question if Indians here been restricted by the caste system, personally I don’t think so. Unlike in India, there is no restrictions in social mobility. The structure and profile of the Indian society here is so very different from India.
Calvin,
Actually I have been reading a lot on this for quite sometime now and awaiting from Indian followers’ POV, but it seldom come.
Re. To the question if Indians here been restricted by the caste system, personally I don’t think so.
The Malaysian Indian curse
July 24, 2013
Quote “The root cause for the disparity among the Indians are the caste (jati) system inherited from India. The recent fiasco over MIC presidential elections is surrounded by the caste support for the top post. The Mukkulathors and Kounders are the dominant caste and the current president is aligning the candidates with the respective caste. Despite their education, the leaders are still playing the caste sentiments in politics. In this context, whom shall we blame for the backwardness of community? The leaders for campaigning based on caste or the community for practicing the caste system till today without regards to human values?
The social stratification of the community has hampered the progress of the Indians and we are the root cause for our downfall because of the choice to practice caste system. Mahatma Gandhi, BR Ambedkar, Periyar, EV Ramasamy spent their lives fighting for the eradication of the caste system. Their achievements helped uplift the Dalits (untouchables) in India. In Malaysian context, the caste system is the root cause for our political and economy failure and the Indian community in should take responsibility for the society’s collapse.” Unquote
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2013/07/24/the-malaysian-indian-curse/
MALAYSIA A RACIST STATE BY WAYTHAMURTHI AND BERSIH
Quote “If Malaysia is a racist country it is not by UMNO alone. In fact not at all by UMNO in the case of the Indians. In the case of the Indians in Malaysia, racism is manifested by practice of the caste and race divisions created by the MIC its predecessors and the MCA. Indian organizations and the MCA bargained for the race based enclaves which they now wallow in uncomfortably. That’s neither the fault of UMNO nor the Barisan but that of the political leaders of each of the other two parties that are not UMNO. Unqoute
http://takemon.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/malaysias-indians-and-the-art-of-self-destruction/
Re. You got it mixed up. Caste and ethnic groupings are 2 very different things. Tamil, Gujerati, Malayalam, etc are ethnic groups within Indians society just like Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka,etc.
Those are just examples to show that within the community itself, the Indian are still divided due to various reasons.
Re. On the other hand caste is defined within the same ethnic group.
I am aware of this, but I am just being polite here so as not to mention the origin of the majority of Malaysian Indian.
Re: Please do me a little favour and read (or reread) the Hang Babeuf deranged rant. I really need some other person to understand what sane people are up against.
I’ve read and can’t say whether he’s trying to be sarcastic TKok-CNY vid-style or he’s just ranting. Anyway he didn’t make much sense to me, and if he’s part of the dap supporters, then can’t say I’m surprised. I find that they tend to go on a rant when they want to put people down.
And here’s my “rant” on this issue:
The appointment of Waytha was an unfortunate decision by the PM. His intentions were good but he failed to “read” the sentiments on the ground. I say unfortunate due to the following:
– When Waytha came out in support of BN prior to GE13, the Malays were skeptical but Hindraf said he betrayed their cause.
http://news.malaysia.msn.com/elections/ge13-hindraf-sacked-waythamoorthy-for-selling-out-to-the-devil-says-uthayakumar
– When he was appointed Deputy Minister this is the reaction from a faction of the Indian community –
http://www.humanrightspartymalaysia.com/2013/05/21/waytha-moorthy-uses-umno-money-in-congratulating-himself-as-newly-minted-deputy-minister-mandore-via-tamil-dailies-kosong-propaganda-hindraf-geneva-bbala-australia-robert-k-chelliah-played/
When he was a deputy minister, he made quite a blunder which was the main reason the Umno supporters and quite a few Umno bigwigs got upset with him and Najib –
http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/now-khairy-and-ali-tell-waythamoorthy-to-step-down-1.344960
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=186502:who-are-you-a-muslim-to-meddle-in-hindu-affairs?-waytha-ticks-off-ku-nan&Itemid=2#axzz2stipMl8M
When he signed a pact to join BN, he agreed on signing a five-year blueprint to bring the Indian poor into the mainstream of national development. So maybe the situation has come to a point where he finds he is no longer in a position to be able to negotiate, in which case he has made the right decision to quit and let someone else who doesn’t have a history with Umno to sit at the negotiation table.
Thanks for reading the deranged comment by Hang Babeuf. Yes, they’re always wanting to put people from the other side down and putting people on their own side high on pedestals. In the case of the Hang Babeuf comments, he sees things (words) that are not there.
It’s the Dapster ability to see things that are not there which I wanted to highlight. How can these people ever be persuaded to see reason?