Reproduced below are three reader comments responding to the news of Waytha Moorthy’s resignation.
By temenggong
Comment originally @ 2014/02/11 at 11:20 am
No one in mind. Indians do not need a charismatic leader, just a reversal of the marginalisation policies in place. One is the underfunding of schools and grossly insufficient places for matriculation. Another is the denial of choice courses in universities. Another is the denial of govt contracts and permits to Indian businesses and lack of bank loans. No franchises for petrol stations, stockists or fast food outlets. Further, glass ceilings in the private sector. Glass ceilings and ethnic cleansing in the 5 uniformed services. Glass ceilings in the police. Ceilings everywhere!
If they study overseas, that medical university is de-recognised. They don’t want more Indian doctors and disrupt the ratio. No study loans for study in foreign universities. Who does this impact? Indians and Chinese!
Up till the 70s there were 5 Indian banks. Due to forced mergers today there is none. If a community does not have a presence in banking and property development, they become vulnerable and at the mercy. No Indian developers because there will be allocation of land to Indian developers. It is out of the question. Not a single govt contract to Indian companies like Maika or Sampoorna while Malay and Chinese companies like MPH and Sunway get it time and again. Just imagine, not one in 30 years! No land allocation for agriculture, dairy and aqua culture. Whatever they have is taken away, like dairy farms and aquaculture fish farms. The list is long.
First, an Indian is denied a license or permit. If at all he has one or rents one, he is denied bank loans or given such a small amount that he is geared to fail. You have to understand this part; if an Indian gets a loan, it is on such an amount and such terms that he is bound to fail. And then they exclaim, ‘there you are, Indians cannot do business’! Same thing that happens in tamil schools, underfund it so that it demoralises students and teachers. Whatever fields are available, they take it away so that Indians do not excel in sports. Whatever sports where Indians excel like hockey, rugby or cricket is underfunded.
Indians are absent in the private retail sector due to inadequate allocation of goods on consignment by the supplier. Example, an Indian retailer is allocated 5 TVs and 5 fridges a month whereas the other retailers get an allocation of at least 30 units of each a month. One cant even buy cash from the wholesaler because he will deny he has any units left. “Sudah habis woh”! A retailer cannot survive with just 10 electrical units sold in a month. And consumers will gravitate to those well stocked shops.
One Indian liquor wholesaler was forced out of the industry at gunpoint and RM150,000 cash for all his stocks. The cartel from a certain race does not want others in their territory. The auto lift jacks in a car mechanic shop are installed free by the motor oil supplier. No auto jacks for Indian mechanics. “Dont have stock. Must wait.” 3 years and still no jacks. They will not give you the jacks because 10 others from his own community is operating garages in that area and he does not want to piss them off.
No one is allowed to succeed. In the private sector, the senior management will make it clear that there are 50 other executives from his race ‘ahead of you’. When Indian film distribution began to do well, BMG, Warner Music and MCA Records stepped in and took over. You never see Indian corner shoplots because the developer reserves it for his community.
So on all sides they are marginalised and squeezed. The govt (BN or PR) will not reverse its policies. The private sector will not compromise on their chauvinism. Its easier to bring the moon here! For the moment, Indians should emigrate and work.
“Malay dominated government no different from DAP’s holy grail of Chinese/Christian supremacy”
By PenangMacha
Comment originally @ 2014/02/10 at 12:48 pm
Helen, I think one of the reasons why you hardly have any Indians taking the trouble to comment in your blog is because they consider it pointless to clarify for or argue intelligently with your mostly pro establishment Malay regulars.
If you think about it, they’re not very different from Pakatoons with their sanctimonious and smug takes on the Indian poor problem, Hindraf and Indians in general while conveniently overlooking or diluting the deliberate marginalisation of the community by the government. A quick look at comments on Indian issues on your blog is enough to confirm this. Almost every one of their opinions, no matter how open to discourse they want to appear, have their origins in Ketuanan and Malay supremacy and the expected submissiveness of other races. There’s no engaging with such opinionated minds.
You have done a great job refuting their stupid preconceptions and ignorant presumptions with your factual arguments but it’s hard for me to talk to people who think they’re intelligent but have no idea of what they’re talking about. You see the same ignorant statements and sentiments about Indians repeated over and over again despite valid explanations and arguments. If this is not a sign of ignorant by choice, one track minds, I don’t know what is.
This is why I choose not to comment on Indian issues or engage with your disgusting pseudo-intelligent, ethnocentric but spoon-fed-from-birth-to-death elitist audience who feel superior and secure only when Indians (and/or Chinese) are subjugated and subservient to them and the Malay dominated government (no different from DAP’s holy grail of Chinese/Christian supremacy).
Malays here and every where else keep reminding us of the archaic social contract and how we should be eternally grateful to them for our third class citizenship while belittling every single contribution of ours to this country when in reality, the Indians were never a threat to their hegemony or convenient preferred status. Indians mostly are inherently, a conscionable race. Unlike most Chinese, we are never that ambitious or power crazy to usurp the special position of the Malays or dominate them. I have heard some older Indians tell me that the this land belongs to the Malays and we should behave accordingly. Yet we (the majority, not the KJ John kind) are regarded as threats by these very insecure people.
There’s an old saying among the Indian community – that it was always possible to work and live with the Malays but never the Chinese as Malays were considered to be humanistic people with a conscience. I tell my friends that this is no longer true. Malays have become just as arrogant and materialistic as the Chinese.
It becomes tiresome talking to these educated Malays after a while. The more educated they are, the more skillful (but revealingly) they pervert percepts of equality and fairness to their advantage. And whether they care to admit it or not, they’ve become just as racist as the DAP Chinese.
I will however continue to read their comments just to remind myself just how moderate and magnanimous Malays really are compared to the Chinese.
“Rich Indians especially Christians look down upon Hindu Indians as uneducated and low class”
By Calvin Sankaran
Comment originally @ 2014/02/10 at 4:34 pm
It is not the caste system but the attitude of the rich Indians. You included in an earlier post how Jaclynn Victor refused to celebrate Deepavali claiming to be Christian. This is so typical of rich Indians especially Christians who consider themselves Europeans rather than Indians. They look down upon Hindu Indians as uneducated and low class.
Generally I think the problem with Indians is historical and structural. Among the Indians, there is a big gap among rich and poor with 20% hard core poor. I disagree that the govt policies are to be blamed (remember I am from estate too). Rather the failure of the govt to provide assistance when the Indians were displaced was the key problem.
You see when I was younger I even wrote papers (in uni) that for Indians to progress they have to get out of estates. But the prevailing notion was against this. The opposition leaders wanted monthly wages for estate workers and refused to allow migration. They made a big fight over it. So when the Indians were forced to move, they were unprepared. So you can’t really blame the govt though they could have done a better job.
It is the same with the Malays who move from kampung to city, there is no program exist to help them either. That’s one of the reason for drug addiction and mat rempitism among the Malay youths.
This is my view all along even when I was voting DAP.
Helen Ang 
Conventional wisdom says that integration into the global marketplace tends to weaken the power of traditional faith in developing countries. But, as Meera Nanda argues in her path-breaking book “The God Market”, this is hardly the case in today’s India. Against expectations of growing secularism, India has instead seen a “remarkable intertwining” of HINDUISM and NEO-LIBERAL ideology, spurred on by a expanding CAPITALIST CLASS. It is this “STATE-TEMPLE-CORPORATE Complex” she claims, that now wields decisive political and economic power, and provides ideological cover for the dismantling of the Nehru-era state-dominated economy.
According to this NEW LOGIC, India’s rapid economic growth is attributable to a special “HINDU MIND” and “it is what separates the nation’s Hindu population from Muslims and others” deemed to be “Anti-Modern.” As a result, Hindu institutions are replacing public ones, and the “HINDU REVIVAL” itself has become BIG BUSINESS, a major source of CAPITAL ACCUMULATION. Dr. Nanda explores the roots of this development and its possible future, as well as the struggle for secularism and socialism in the world’s second-most populous country.
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/vedic_science_Mira.htm
Interesting.
Light at the end of the tunnel for the Hindus…
And I’m glad that no alcohol license permit is given to Indians – alcohol is simply not good for anyone, and we should deter the Indians from abusing themselves.
Nowadays we can see too many Indians drinking away in public parks, not the solitary drunkards mind you. Parks where normal families & individuals go for morning or evening exercises/leisures.
Too much money wasted on bad habits, that it is hard fathom the dire situations they are in.
What mentioned by Temenggong is hard truth. Many Indians are touted into supporting PR particularly DAP for not knowing what they are going for.
One of the thing that many indian and malay do not realize that due to the quota system, the indian actually got easy entry into local uni. Not just entry, but also got the opportunity to do good courses. I remember after STPM, many of my indian friend got accepted into good Engineering courses despite so and so STPM score. I remember seeing one of my indian course mate STPM result and it is to my disbelieve that he can get an entry to the program I am doing.
Re. I remember seeing one of my indian course mate STPM result and it is to my disbelieve that he can get an entry to the program I am doing.
This is part affirmative action but they hardly acknowledged that, in fact after graduation and become professionals, they vote against the GOMEN and say bye bye to their poor community.
re: I remember after STPM, many of my indian friend got accepted into good Engineering courses despite so and so STPM score.
For every one undeserving Indian students getting Engineering course, there maybe more than one Bumiputra students getting the same. To avoid dispute, the government should just streamline all pre-U courses into a standard exam. Currently, we have matriculation, STPM, diploma etc. With a standardize system, the pre-U results of all students getting into critical courses can be published for scrutiny. 4 pointer in matriculation is not the same as 4 pointer in STPM.
I completely agree with the observation. This is the so-called champions of community refused to see and acknowledge. I have seen this personally too when I was in the uni as well during the I was active in community social activities.
To prove my point, a good friend of mine (indian) only scored 17 aggregates for SPM and was admitted to USM Matriculation. Another good friend (chinese) with 13 aggregate not getting it. Then my indian friend went on to do medic despite her matriculation result also so and so. In fact she paid the cost in her medic study where she has to extend for 1 extra year. I have since lost contact with her, but I believe she is a doctor now.
When I was in the uni (UTM) many of my Indian friends’ results were much inferior to the Chinese students. Many of them are very succesful now but a lot of them have forgotten how they got here and staunchly pro-PR. So much so that when we have reunions I tend to ban talks on politics as a pre-condition.
The funny thing is many of pro-PR Indians demand for meritocracy. They don’t seem to realise that they will be worse off under the system. In fact there has been a change in the public uni admission and it is tend to be based on meritocracy now compared to my time. As such the Indian students’ ratio has actually dropped. I had always argued for a quota system for uni for Indians as this is a great social mobility platform. But you would be surprised how many pro-PR Indians strongly oppose it and see me as a heretic.
Check out my new post in my blog
http://grandmarquis.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/2nd-class-citizen-who-live-in-a-mansion/
Helen, did you read Baradan’s comments on Waytha ? It seems to be rather kind to Waytha. It also reinforces what I had said on the matter.
Thanks. I’ll look it up.
Hi, I have no intent to hurt anybody’s feelings.
When I was younger, apolitical that I still am, I used to hang out during those Happy Hrs with some of my Indian buddies who are professionals BTW. From them I learnt about Malaysian Indian politics bla bla.
Reading from those comments posted above, although the facts on the ground may be true and accurate, the bitching over the years are just the same. Pin-pointing here and there, which BTW, isn’t this the Malaysian mind-set through-and-through in our political landscape.
The point I want to make is that the Indian community in Malaysia had settled early in the country and have had political representation ever since. They had all the opportunity to better themselves. Don’t say I this is my sole opinion. It come from the Indians themselves.
I have been on the internet long as everbody else. This topic has been discuseed and re-interpreted so many times.
Time to ponder: masaalah negara atau masaalah kaum itu sendiri?
I reiterate, I have no intent to hurt anybody’s feelings. Come 2020, the topic will be re-hashed in some other way.
We’re on the Internet but the target group is not being heard and not giving their input in cyberspace.
We pay xyz ringgit monthly for our broadband and wifi smartphones. This same amount of money is equivalent to the month’s grocery bill for the poor. If your office cleaner happens to be an Indian lady, please ask her how much she gets a month.
Our issue is with the gross extravagance and sheer wastefulness of the Najib administration and how he easily tosses a few hundred millions here, and a few hundred millions there but refuses to focus on our country’s poor.
If so many Malaysians qualify for the BR1M handouts, then it means that there are a lot of the rakyat marhaen who are living from hand to mouth and unable to make ends meet.
On the flip side, there is tremendous amount of leakages on government funding. Cow-in-Condo is case in point.
I’ve not carried the stories like AES and other financial scandals but some of the other bloggers (their blogs currently under DDoS attack too) have exposed the shenanigans of the Najib cronies and how they are just gobbling money!
The revelation that RM7.2 billion was wasted on ‘consultants’ was the figure released in Parliament. Huge sums of money are provided for and channeled to luxury “projects” whereas the poorest people in Malaysia remain in dire straits.
With all the ants swarming around his sugar, Najib’s inverted pyramid is going to topple. Najib is the most spendthrift PM in Malaysian history!
We’re on the Internet but the target group is not being heard and not giving their input in cyberspace.
We pay xyz ringgit monthly for our broadband and wifi smartphones. This same amount of money is equivalent to the month’s grocery bill for the poor. If your office cleaner happens to be an Indian lady, please ask her how much she gets a month.
Our issue is with the gross extravagance and sheer wastefulness of the Najib administration and how he easily tosses a few hundred millions here, and a few hundred millions there but refuses to focus on our country’s poor.
If so many Malaysians qualify for the BR1M handouts, then it means that there are a lot of the rakyat marhaen who are living from hand to mouth and unable to make ends meet.
On the flip side, there is tremendous amount of leakages on government funding. Cow-in-Condo is case in point.
I’ve not carried the stories like AES and other financial scandals but some of the other bloggers (their blogs currently under DDoS attack too) have exposed some of the money-gobbling shenanigans!
The revelation that RM7.2 billion was wasted on ‘consultants’ was the figure released in Parliament. Huge sums of money are provided for and channeled to luxury “projects” whereas the poorest people in Malaysia remain in dire straits.
With all the ants swarming around his sugar, Najib’s inverted pyramid is going to topple. Najib is the most spendthrift PM in Malaysian history!
re: ……. refuses to focus on our country’s poor.
Not only refuse to focus on the poor, reduce subsidies and hike prices to hurt them further after the election. The impact is felt by the poor of all races.
re: If so many Malaysians qualify for the BR1M handouts ……………………..,
Spot on. This is proof that majority Malaysians are low income earners, hence being entitled for BR1M. But politicians proudly claim that they are looking after the welfare of rakyat.
re: Cow-in-Condo is case in point.
The amount of money in NFC scandal is peanuts. Only RM250 mil. We have bigger scandals like PKFZ, submarines etc. You may want to read the book “Malaysian Maverick” written by Barry Wain. Not to mention the annual wastages in the Auditor General Reports.
re: The revelation that RM7.2 billion was wasted on ‘consultants’ was the figure released in Parliament.
Certified by Parliament. Not even hardcore BN supporters can deny or justify these figure.
re: Najib is the most spendthrift PM in Malaysian history!
The latest is paying RM400 mil to toll companies as compensation for not hiking toll rates this year. What about next year?
re: I’ve not carried the stories like AES and other financial scandals ……………….
Helen, you should. Looking at the traffic of your blog, you can ‘educate’ the public on these matters.
re: “Looking at the traffic of your blog”
At the moment traffic is impeded due to the continued DDoS attack.
Oooh! That really hit us hard!
Nonetheless there are LITTLE INDIAs everywhere. If the males can afford golden earings for themselves nowadays, imagine what they can spend for their loved ones.
On the banks merger part, I have always disagree on that govt. move.
Countless of management level dissatisfactions, internal disputes among staff UNTIL TODAY. Many individuals interest were not taken care of. Golden handshake were just sweet talks just to enforce dominance later. I’ve foreseen these woes from the people serving in the finance and banking sectors.
They should have let the smaller banks and finance companies. collapse by themselves. A take over will never become hostile when you are already in deep-shit! ANYWAY THAT’S NOT THE POINT HERE.
All in all it is RELIGION THAT DISCRIMINATES. If your name is Ahmad ‘Pamboo’samy bin Abdullah (sekalipun) you’d be surprised how the Malays would tremendously change their attitude towards you (for the better of course).
Therefore you should still heed that old saying among you people and pass it on. The Malays too have their old famous saying (which have already leaked) about a particular race – “If you are caught by surprise by these 2 species…”
Excepts from a dialog by Keanu Reeves in the movie Speed:-
“What do you do? What do you do?”
Or Me? Tor For?
I liked reading the comments from temenggong and Penang Macha both of which contained some grains of truth. However I think temenggong’s views exaggerate the situation a little although his observation that the Indians are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea is broadly correct.
These are my views.
1. Firstly I must express my deep admiration to some non Indians who have shown much sympathy to the plight of the Indian poor. It is not the most sexiest or glamorous topic to champion unlike say, LGBT, women’s rights, racism, human rights, electoral reform, etc that gets instant stardom. That’s why I have my deep respect for Helen.
2. I have been active in social activities to improve the community’s socio economic standing for a while, since I was a student in the local uni. I am from an estate and educated in a Tamil school. I have seen it all from the other end of the spectrum unlike, say the view through a rainbow-tinted Ray Ban of a Bangar raised Bangsa Malaysian.
3. The Indian society in Malaysia is fractured socio economically due to historical reasons. When the British brought the labourers from India, they did not bring the best and the brightest unlike the Indians who reside in the UK, the US or even Singapore – ie the creme le la creme — the top 1% graduates of IIT or IIM and such. But they recruited mostly the uneducated and mid to low caste Tamils from the poorest and most illiterate regions of Tamil Nadu. And to manage and support them they also imported some educated folks mainly the higher caste Tamils, Christian Malayalis and the Sri Lankan Tamils to work as mandores, MAs, clerks, etc. So from the onset these 10% of Indians developed a superiority complex that remains to this day. You can see the Christian Indians telling their kids not to mix with the coolies even today.
4. So the society was split into poor 90% and 10% rich and educated even at the very start. Also most Indians were confined to estates and became very insular and ignored the external world and failed to integrate into the Malaysian society. However through education, the social mobility started and the Indians began to climb up the socio economic ladder. However in the 80s and 90s there were many champions of Indians who were dead set against Indians leaving the estates. This was a big emotive issue among the society. They demanded monthly salary for estate workers rather than making sure these workers look for higher value added work. I was of the opinion that the Indian mindset of being insular will only change if they leave but I can tell that people looked at me as a sort of heretic. They wanted the Indian culture maintained and Indians lived among themselves. So when finally rubber price crashed and the estates were sold off, the Indians were completely unprepared and paid a heavy price.
6. Over the time, the society evolved but the growth was unbalanced with 80% middle and upper class and 20% hard core poor. That the society moved from rich/poor ratio of 10:90 to 80:20 itself is an achievement since they started off with almost nothing.
7. Coming back to the issue why there is this problem of 20% hard core, I would say it is due to the twin problem of displacement from estates and the lack of support from the richer Indians. But these issues need to be seen from a historical perspective too rather than a simplistic one.
8. It has almost become a cliché to blame the government failure to manage displacement of Indians from estates as the culprit for all these woes while I agree, things are not that simple. Having lived through the episode (as opposed to reading about in Mkini), I know a little more than the average Sammy (Christian name to indicate the urban, Christian Indian oops sorry Bangsa Malaysian). As I had mentioned, at the time rubber prices crashed, many of our current PR Indians leaders were agitating for monthly wages and insisting on keeping Indians in estates forever (citing culture, language, heritage, blah blah). The wages in estate was OK in the 50s to 80s but once Malaysia started off the super growth period in late 80s they lagged behind. Had Indians stayed back in estates, they would have been in even worse economic situation today. I have personally seen the effect of the displacement (of my relatives and friends since I moved out on my own choice earlier). These people were uneducated and completely insular and many can’t even speak any other language than Tamil. At that time of displacement most people were only interested in getting a fat compensation than thinking about their long term future.
At that time no one foresaw the coming problems, including many of the champions who are so vocal in blaming others about it. Could the govt and MIC helped in that situation? Sure they could have done something that would have prevented the problem we have today. However the view in the rear-view mirror is always clearer. Things look so obvious 30 years down the road. No one anticipated the future problems and everyone was fighting for compensation and even refusing to move all. Can we blame the GLCs? Well, GLCs were struggling to survive as the price of rubber crashed. You could certainly ask PKR on what did Khalid Ibrahim did as the CEO of Sime Darby to help Indians.
The point is most of these Indians are uneducated and there is not much job they can do. They also used up money they received for house instead of starting a business. You can talk about training them or give them license, but were they interested or even capable? I don’t think so. MIC couldn’t help as they were based at estates and in the cities they had minimal presence. So where were the champions of Indians today (Hindraf and their off-shoots) at that time? Why didn’t they help?
9. Another cause is the attitude of the rich Indians. Many of them considered themselves as Christians and even Bangsa Malaysians. They refused to help despite having benefitted from quotas and other benefits due to their race. Look at people like Ambiga, Irene Fenandez, etc. They would rather help Banglas than their own race. I can give more examples. Many Indians who got to uni through Indian quota refuse to contribute either their time or money to help the poor Indians. Many shun MIC so the party has no power or money to help Indians and had to depend entirely on the govt. How many Indians helped MIC to set up the AIMST? The worse is that many of those who got scholarship from MIC to study refuse to pay back even though they are now rich. You would be surprised that many PR and NGO leaders actually benefitted from MIC yet they run down the party. Even Uthaya got his law degree through MIC money.
10. For me, too much has been said about Indian poor. They are no different from Malay, Iban or Kadazan poor and all deserve govt help. Najib has done much since he became the PM and no other PM has done this much for the Indians. There have been numerous initiatives. But the problem is that there are too many talkers and too few doers. Instead of helping the poor to benefit from these programs, NGOs and politicians are more interested in becoming heroes.
What has Hindraf done to help other than constant whining and protests? Have they gone down to ground to resolve any issues? Many of the issues they fight for have been detrimental to the society. Instead of solving the problem of gangsterism and violence, they actually defend criminals and killers. They fought for the release of RR detainees and the repeal of the RRA and now we see a massive crime wave. Instead of solving the issue of illegal temples they fight the destruction of such shrines, causing even more illegal ones to come up.
Look at the case of matriculation. They whole issue has been twisted to convey a very wrong picture. Najib has approved 1500 places for Indians – an unprecedented move. But when offered places, only 1/3 turned up. Instead of persuading these students to take up the offer, NGOs and PR claimed that only 500 were taken in and made it into a political matter.
Stateless Indians – There is no discrimination but a lack of responsibility. Many of these people married without registering – not because they don’t know but they did it illegally (2nd marriage, secret marriage or marrying foreigners). But instead using the special Task Force to get their IC, Indian NGOs take the street to protest and issue endless press statements. Many of these Indians also cannot even speak Malay and yet claim IC is their birthright.
Calvin Sankaran, thank you for your enlightening (but somewhat subjective) explicandum.
I’m not about to argue with you on your opinions (some of which definitely contain some grains of truth) but I’m curious.
Are you implying that the Indian predicament is largely their own doing and that the deliberate neglect by the government never happened or only aided to a small extent to bring about the Indian dilemma today?
Btw, re: Look at the case of matriculation. They whole issue has been twisted to convey a very wrong picture. Najib has approved 1500 places for Indians – an unprecedented move. But when offered places, only 1/3 turned up. Instead of persuading these students to take up the offer, NGOs and PR claimed that only 500 were taken in and made it into a political matter.
My friend’s nephew made 4 A’s for his SPM after Najib’s announcement. His Malay Muslim (girl) classmate who got no A’s but a string of mediocre, below average passes was accepted for matriculation while this boy who also applied for matriculation was turned down. He had no choice but to go on and struggle through STPM. She’s already in local Uni while he continues to slog.
This is only the tip of the iceberg, my friend.
Wrong picture?
Think again.