Reporter Narinder Singh fired a barrage of criticism at Waytha Moorthy, in addition to blasting Najib and BN as well as Pakatan in his FMT opinion piece today titled ‘Waytha, the BN waterboy all washed up‘.
Narinder views Waytha’s resignation as a late-in-the-day realisation by the Hindraf chairman that “he is better off fighting from outside the ring rather from within the circles of the Putrajaya boys”.
I have just one simple question: So who is going to help, and how will assistance and poverty alleviation programmes be delivered to the poorest Indians now?
60 thoughts on “Indians are their own worst enemies”
Who are the Indians?
The small communities(minorities) should not be fighting for their rights along religious or cultural lines.
If we separate them into different races originating from the Indian continent, and yet again into various religious or cultural fellowships, theirs would be diminishing voices.
They have to assimilate & thereby help themselves.
The mamaks are a distinct ethnic community. They are linguistically separate, i.e. those who are still able to speak Tamil or other Indian dialects.
They are a religious minority among the Indians but they have assimilated very well, language-wise and culture-wise. So how come the Dapsters absolutely loathe the mamaks then?
Methinks out of all the sub-ethnic groups in Malaysia, the mamaks would be the most aghast should DAP come to (federal) power. The oppo – in this case, the oppo is BN – protests in Penang are spearheaded by the mamaks.
Hi Helen dan kawan2,
Apa khabar? Dah lama cikgu tak tinggalkan nota di sini.
Walaupun ada beberapa dasar kerajaan yg cikgu tak berapa setuju, itu tidak bermakna kita perlu menghancurkan falsafah perlembagaan dan kemerdekaan negara Tanah Melayu (kini Malaysia). Masyarakat India telah diberi peluang untuk maju, tetapi macam bangsa Cina juga, mereka lebih keras kepala dan sombong. Jika semua usaha kerajaan membantu melayu, Cina, India, Iban, kadazan, Sikh dll menjadi biawak kepada UMNO, apa sebenarnya dibuat oleh Samy Vellu, Tony Fernades, Ambiga, Ananda K dalam membangunkan masyarakat India? Orang spt W.Moorthy adalah TIADA MARUAH, hanya cari salah kerajaan dan UMNO tanpa melihat betapa tamaknya golongan elit dlm bangsa India sendiri. Dia nak jadi hero India dan mencari salah orang lain. Apa yg dibuat ketika diberi peluang berada dalam kerajaan dan hampir dgn PM? Tak nampak sumbangan apa2pun. Mentadbir negara berdaulat BERAJA di bumi Tanah Melayu, bukan seperti cerita Tamil yg sentiasa nak gaduh dan didokong samseng2.
Lebih balik YB Kamala, walaupun ditumbuk pemuda UMNO, masih ada juga kerja yg dia buat. MALAYSIA sangat2 memerlukan manusia (ahli politik) yg lebih banyak buat kerja dari banyak cakap, jual temberang dan suka berdemo.
Cikgu baru Balik Bangkok last week. Negara mereka kucar kacir dgn kerenah ahli politik dan penyokong pelampau. Akibatnya, negara rugi dan competitiveness sudah kian pudar dan terpinggir.
kepada ahli politik, bekerjasamalah membangunkan Malaysia. Anda (ahli politik) telah banyak membuang masa dan resources negara untuk terus maju mengejar wawasan 2020. Rakyatpun dah fed-up…
re: “Apa yg dibuat ketika diberi peluang berada dalam kerajaan dan hampir dgn PM?”
Hindraf secretary Ramesh said in his statement that they met with dead ends, and the bureaucracy was dragging its feet.
Let’s just take the recent online reaction (perhaps not in my blog but elsewhere) to Waytha’s resignation in the pro-Umno blogosphere. There were whoops of joy (“good riddance”) and revived hostility directed at him.
If this is the hostile attitude, and supposing the gomen servants shared this attitude, don’t you think that it’s very possible for red tape to be purposely placed as obstacles in the path of the Blueprint?
The MoU is signed by two parties, i.e. between Hindraf and BN. Therefore it needs both parties to make it work. The BN has not been pulling its weight.
Tak payah nak prejudis kat orang Melayu sangat. Gomen punya birokrasi is world famous. Melayu sendiri pun kena! Bukan setakat orang bukan Melayu saja.
So tolong buang prejudis. Cari jalan penyelesaian. Belajar sikit cara Kamalanathan buat kerja. Nak buat baik kena banyak sabar, dugaannya banyak.
Kalau sikit-sikit nak ugut nak memberontak nak ego nak angkat kaki, tolong salahkan diri sendiri!
quote,”Kalau sikit-sikit nak ugut nak memberontak nak ego nak angkat kaki, tolong salahkan diri sendiri!”unquote.
Setuju sangat. Itu deskripsi terhadap Hindraf yg tepat, khasnya, dan sesetengah orang India, amnya.
re: “nak ego nak angkat kaki”
Tak ingat ke, si Zahid, si Hisham, si KJ, Wan Junaidi kesemua mereka telah menuntut supaya Waytha Moorthy melepaskan jawatannya.
Ala Helen, Najib pun ramai yang orang suruh letak jawatan. Dia angkat kaki tak?
Zahid pun miss Kok kata talk layak jadi menteri, dia angkat kaki tak?
Wayta letak jawatan goes to show that these people can on demo kat jalanan. Nothing more!
re: “Najib pun ramai yang orang suruh letak jawatan”
Yang suruh Najib letak jawatan tu (kita ambil contoh dua blog – OutSyed The Box dan Apanama) diserang habis-habisan. Datuk Kadir pun diserang peribadi.
Yang suruh Waytha letak jawatan tu (Zahid, Hisham, KJ, Wan Junaidi) diberikan tepuk sorai dan belanjawan berbilion-bilion, misalnya peruntukan untuk KBS di bawah Menteri Kangkung.
Thaipusam in Penang is getting grandier and grandier by the year.
Leaving tonnes of trash on the roads after. Money No Hal they can afford to pay to the local council to clear for the mess made.
Now they are celebrating it more that once in a year.
Manggalla Ossai, Kalaikali Nights tickets sold out (The Return of Puyal over and over again) Party all night!
They drive cozyly in their vehicles now unlike the days they would crammed up 10 people in a 5-seater car.
Subcribe all Astro Indian packages, miskin? Miskinss my ass!!!
Or Me? Tor For?
Tunggu cacing naik kemata,
Di Filipina ada Melayu Bangsamoro
Di Malaysia dah mula ada ramai Melayu BANGSAMORON!
If I were to apply your same line, I can also claim that there are no poor Malays.
You cite Thaipusam, I will cite Ramadan and all those buka puasa spreads in the hotels throughout the month, and then the Open House kenduris during Syawal. The buka puasa buffet costs more than coconuts.
You want to talk about cars, why not we station ourselves outside Pan-Pac and other hotels nearby the PWTC around the time of the Umno general assembly and see what kind of vehicles are parked there.
So the next time someone wants to ungkit poor Melayu, can I also (according to your reasoning) say “Miskinss my ass!!!” ?
Padan muka kentangburuk.
Not that I’m being hypocritically nice to them (you know naturally being Malay). Matter o’ fact, I do have great and good friends. But I know the Indians a lot better than you do.
Hanya peringatan pada pepatah Melayu lama (yang telah bocor). “Bila terjumpa 2 jenis species ini….”
Btw, Melayu tetap macam drama-drama futuristic Melayu kat TV tu, lagi 30 tahun pun macam tu jugak!!!
Tak futuristic ke?
The issue in contention here is the fact the plight of the poor Indian community is real and existing. The Gomen just can’t put a blind eye on their plight.
Unlike the Malays, who have MARA, Baitumal and various others support, the Indians have none of that, if any the access is far and few. Even then, the Malays are still complaining incessantly and for many “Tak Tahu Bersyukur dan Berterimakasih”.
I may not agree with and like the Indian attitude, which I have commented many time over, but the fact remains that they have every rights to complain and demand for attention in whichever way they feel possible.
…unlike the Malays, who have MARA, Baitumal and various others support..
Indah kabar dari berita.. Lu ingat senang dapat ke? I need funds my son nak buka Petrol station, tolong kasi tunjuk sikit kot celah mana senang nak dapat? I give you 20% commission for your assistance – tinggi tu!
Tak semua pekara mudah, ISU POKOKnya disini JALAN dan PUNCA telah sedia ada. Rezeki dapat tak dapat, itu Allah swt yang dah tentukan. Bukan anak kamu seorang saja yang minta, ramai lagi diluar sana yang minta. It is a very competitive market.
Yang ada duit pun belum tentu dapat. Contohnya rakan saya nak buka Station Petronas, masa tu Petronas minta Bank Guarantee RM350,000 kalau tak silap, dah pergi interview dan kursus, akhirnya tak dapat juga.
Banyak lagi contoh lain yang saya boleh beri.
Re. I need funds my son nak buka Petrol station, tolong kasi tunjuk sikit kot celah mana senang nak dapat?
Please compare apple to apple, not apple to orange. Anak you nak buka Petrol station, berbanding isu anak-anak India di estate yang serba ketinggalan. Tapi bagi anak-anak Melayu, mereka ada access yang baik dari segi pelajaran melalui MARA, tapi anak-anak India tak ada.
Janganlah komen ikut emosi,
Ramai lagi Melayu yang tak dibantu. Banyak lagi yang Melayu tak dapat. Unlike the popular beliefs. Bukan semua Melayu dibantu Gomen. Bukan semua bantuan pembelajaran tidak perlu dibayar. Bukan semua anak-anak Melayu dapat masuk MRSM. Berapa ramai yang dapat 5A baru-baru tak dapat MRSM. Now do these people buat press conference pasal tu. Tak. Unbecoming of the mahavamsas.
Re. Bukan semua Melayu dibantu Gomen
Keutamaan akan diberikan pada anak-anak miskin dan dari kampung. Itu pun yang kaya sibuk mencelah dengan menghantar surat ke Jabatan Pelajaran dan Pihak PIBG sekolah, membuatkan mereka serba salah.
Re. Bukan semua bantuan pembelajaran tidak perlu dibayar.
You gain some, You pay some. Janganlah duduk dengan mentaliti segalanya nak percuma.
Re. Bukan semua anak-anak Melayu dapat masuk MRSM. Berapa ramai yang dapat 5A baru-baru tak dapat MRSM
It is a competitive market with limited space available. Pelajar-pelajar Melayu dah semakin cerdek dan bijak. Kalau tak dapat tu, anggap saja tak ada rezeki disitu.
Re. Now do these people buat press conference pasal tu. Tak. Unbecoming of the mahavamsas.
Kita orang Islam dah diajar tentang erti redha. Asasnya disini, kita orang Melayu telah diberi peluang dan jalan dari berbagai sudut walaupun tidak 100% yang dapat menikmatinya. Tapi kaum India masih ketinggalan dari serba-serbi, seperti yang saya katakan, kita yang dah ada pun merungut, apatah lagi mereka.
“Matter o’ fact, I do have great and good friends. But I know the Indians a lot better than you do.”
“Hanya peringatan pada pepatah Melayu lama (yang telah bocor). “Bila terjumpa 2 jenis species ini….”
These two statements tell a lot about your mindset.
“….why not we station ourselves outside Pan-Pac and other hotels nearby the PWTC….”
Melayu-Melayu yang you refer ni bak kata Tun M:
“ORANG MELAYU KALAU NAK BERJAYA KERAJAAN KENA BAGI TONGKAT!”
You jangan compare these kinds of Melayu, they are like flies hovering around catshits scattered around the mounts of sand.
To get where they are, they don’t slave away by working all day, they only take the initiative to melangut depan mereka yang nak bagi a fair share of that ‘shit’.
That is where the words like nepotism, cronyism and proxyism come to live.
Majorites of the atas pagar Malays are actually just dead giveaway.
My Indian neighbour, hubby n wife driving Merc each, anak Honda. Bulan2 guarantee >RM100K (tiga beranak doctors). Klinik depa sekok Indian pun tak ambik, pekerja, all Malays. Surely there are Indian nurses and pharmacist, tapi kenapa kalau tau bangsa sendiri miskin, sekok pun mereka taknak tolong?
Helen, you kept harping Indians are poor. Hang pi the interiors of dan hayati Bumiputra pulak. Ramai yang masih sangat2 miskin. Tak payah interiors, visit the setinggan areas in the city.
My area Tesco, 99spdmart, KFC, 7E, Clinics etc sentiasa papar iklan kat pintu masuk “kerja kosong”. Estates masih mencari pekerja2, terpaksa send agents to Indonesia to scout for workers.
My son buat practical training kat Hotel – Terkejut, only 1 Indian yg lain semua kalau tak Melayu are very efficient Banglas..
Question is Miskin atau Malas atau asyik nak hulur tempurung?
Melayu di pedalaman miskin — that’s why Tun Razak started the NEP. And there’s why there are programes like Felda, Ketengah dan Kesedar, Mara, Giat Mara, sekolah asrama (to take them out of their environment), etc to help them.
As to why Indians are unemployed and jobless (according to Kadir Jasin, 25.7% Indians in the 15-19 age bracket and 14.1% in the 20-24 age group), you yourself just wrote:
If many more employers share the same attitude, then who is going to employ the Indians?
…programes like Felda, Ketengah dan Kesedar, Mara, Giat Mara, sekolah asrama…
Berapa % Bumis sangat yg dapat rasa diatas tu semua? Indah kabar dari berita.. kasi semua orang syok dan non Bumis jealous mungkin kut. Helen ingat senang nak apply to get these facilities ke? One graduate had to attend 6mths training to secure a loan, dah training dan dapat kedai, depa minta tunjuk proof mesti ada contract (project) in hand .. and so on and after 1yr sent a letter of regret… They make many run like donkeys, even lu ingat magic bole senang dapat ke whatever dongeng facilities yg kamu semua duh bebel sampai berbuih mulut nih!
Tapi apa pun Bumis nak harap siapa lagi? Malaysian Indians still get support from Indian gomen eg the Diasporas http://moia.gov.in/accessories.aspx?aid=10 .
I dont have statistics tapi rasanya jumlah Bumis yang masih miskin mungkin lebih dari total population of Indians living in Malaysia.
re: “Berapa % Bumis sangat yg dapat rasa diatas tu semua?”
Warga Felda keseluruhannya berjumlah hampir 2 juta orang, ruj. http://www.serantajpm.gov.my/index.php/BM/info-jabatan-3/sejarah-penubuhan
Sekarang UiTM sudah mempunyai 200,000 penuntut, ruj. http://www.bharian.com.my/articles/Jumlahpengambilanharusselaripeningkatanmutu/Article/
MRSM mempunyai 73,837 orang pelajar (2010), ruj. http://www.rurallink.gov.my/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=756b8607-d350-4281-87fa-ec4d1c531215&groupId=80191
re: “Malaysian Indians still get support from Indian gomen eg the Diasporas”
Kesian kat mereka. Kerajaan sendiri enggan menghulurkan bantuan dan terpaksa pula mereka mengemis kepada kerajaan asing.
re: “I dont have statistics tapi rasanya jumlah Bumis yang masih miskin mungkin lebih dari total population of Indians living in Malaysia.”
Ada baik juga kalau lain kali Kak Rina boleh petik statistik yang berkaitan.
Di McDonald KL, Sentral ada perkerja wanita India yang pekak dan bisu.
Re. Question is Miskin atau Malas atau asyik nak hulur tempurung?
Bukan mereka Malas atau asyik nak hulur tempurung. Cuba kamu lihat berapa ramai peminta sedekah India di kawasan kamu atau di Bukit Bintang kawasan saya ni. Ramai yang rajin berkerja walaupun sebagai pekerja am Alam Flora. Ada yang mencuci kereta dari Condo ke Condo dengan menaiki basikal setiap pagi seawal 5 pagi hingga 10 malam. Mereka yang tinggal di kawasan bandar ada access atau peluang untuk itu semua. Tapi adakah setakat itu saja taraf dan tahap mereka?
Kamu sendiri bekas pelajar TKC dan anak-anak kamu juga telah berjaya. Kamu masih lagi berusaha untuk mendapat lebih dari itu. Secara dasarnya, kamu telah diberi peluang itu dari awal dan peluang itu membolehkan kamu mengunakan ilmu yang ada untuk mencari peluang yang lain.
Tapi tidak bagi kaum India, rata-ratanya “stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty” (if you have time please read about about this). All of us have to admit that. Again, soal pokoknya disini bagaimanakah GOMEN, boleh menaikkan taraf ekonomi kaum India, setanding kaum lain.
Bercerita tentang betapa pentingnya bantuan asas dan keperluan, seorang rakan saya (Melayu) penjual roti canai di Bukit Bintang bercerita yang beliau hanya sekolah setakat darjah 6 sahaja, Bukan sebab malas atau tak pandai, tapi sekolah jauh dari rumah dan setiap hari terpaksa tumpang kawan naik basikal sejauh 5 batu (dia yang terpaksa kayuh). Kadang-kadang kawan dia buat dajal tak lalu depan rumah dia, dan oleh sebab itu dia selalu tak pergi sekolah.
Bila naik tingakatan satu, dia terpaksa berhenti sekolah dan bantu ibunya menoreh getah.Ketika itu dalam tahun 1980an. Tapi sekarang keadaan dah beubah, yang miskin ada asrama untuk anak miskin begitu juga asrama anak-anak felda, untuk memudahkan mereka pergi Sekolah.
Anak you tak dapat buat bantuan MARA untuk buka Petrol Station pun you dah naik angin, cuba bayangkan keadaan kaum India pula yang serba kekurangan dan tanpa punca bantuan.
tang P.S tu tak tergerak nak minta pon pasai tau tak kan dapat punya. As a student dia goreng keuteow kat pasar malam sikit2 boleh simpan modal sendiri. Tempat saya kampung tapi kids here are very self motivated, pandai cari wang to help their parents and their studies. Tu pasai I rasa amat pelik kalau orang mengadu mereka miskin???
Kat Malaysia ni kalau R A J I N dan guna otak usaha, tengok aje kat pasar borong…. pendatang2 yg kalut pagi2 buta kehulur kehilir terkejar kesana sini mencari rezeki.. If pendatang can come here and earn a living I don’t understand why a Malaysian, kena tunggu GOMEN baru akan jadi tak miskin.
Education??? You don’t need Phd to goreng keuteow ya..
Re. tang P.S tu tak tergerak nak minta pon pasai tau tak kan dapat punya
You are such a PARADOX.
Mengapa mesti menyerah sebelum memcuba. This is one such example there are many others.
Graduate Entrepreneur Fund (TUS)
Re. If pendatang can come here and earn a living I don’t understand why a Malaysian, kena tunggu GOMEN baru akan jadi tak miskin.
Most pendatang are not without some sort of education, some have university degrees, the Bangla, some Indon (the ladies especially), Myanmar, Pinoy, Vietnamese etc. It is the exchange rate and opportunities that drive them here, plus their high survival instinct.
Re. Education??? You don’t need Phd to goreng keuteow ya
Yes, but basic education will liberate your mind and give you basic tool to survive.
MALAYSIA ALLOCATES RM1.35 BLN TO DEVELOP BUMI ENTREPRENEURS
KUALA LUMPUR, April 4 (NNN-Bernama) — The government has allocated RM1.35 billion for 16 agencies under eight ministries to implement Bumiputeraentrepreneur development programmes this year.
Deputy International Trade and Industry Minister Jacob Dungau Sagan said the sectors involved would include property development, manufacturing, services, agriculture and training.
“The allocation under the Prime Minister’s Department is RM700 million for Dana Ekuiti Bhd (Ekuinas). Entrepreneur development programmes by Perbadanan Usahawan Nasional Bhd (PUNB) dan Majlis Amanah Rakyat (MARA) are allocated RM100 million.
I have a friend whose business is solely doing credit and business proposal for financing.
Indah kabar dari berita..
‘I have just one simple question: So who is going to help, and how will assistance and poverty alleviation programmes be delivered to the poorest Indians now?’
MIC was, is and will always be helpless against the autocratic greed of UMNO and the like-minded Malays. All they could ever manage for the Indians was to beg UMNO for scraps and crumbs; most of which never made it to the poor. There’s enough proof of that.
Indians have no choice but to help themselves now.
The problem is Indians have always been a disunited community. Originally, apart from languages, it was the caste system. I’ll be the first to admit that it was so but not anymore. In this day and age, with all the discrimination that they face on a daily basis and throughout their lives, Indians have come to realise their folly and have started cooperating for their common good. I have a wide range of Indians friends ranging from politicians, professionals and professors to businessmen, civil servants, odd-job workers and gangsters and I get around quite a bit. I now see different kinds of networking for business and community work, regardless of caste or language. The only area where caste still matters to a small extent is marriage but that too is fast disappearing.
Unity is slowly but surely developing. There is hope yet for the Indians.
I hope one day to see an independent community.
As for assistance and poverty alleviation programmes provided to the poorest Indians, as far as the government is concerned, I feel it will still be a no show. Hindraf would have been the ideal platform but with Waytha leaving the administration disillusioned, the responsibility of representing the Indian community will conveniently fall back to MIC and the poor will be back to square one again.
Frankly, with the traditional UMNO mentality of regarding even the minority Indian poor a threat to their never-ending crusade for racial supremacy and hegemony, to expect the government to be serious about poverty alleviation for the Indian poor would be pure fantasy.
The good news is that various networking Indian NGOs and religious groups have for a long time now been helping the poor. The bad news is that it’s impossible for these under-funded groups to address the problem its entirety. MIC of course, will capitalise on this and continue to boast about their small (on paper) victories – like they’ve been doing from day 1, which of course will mean little to the poor.
100 juta untuk SJKT-dengan membelakangkan Perlembagaan Persekutuan-UMNO jahat lagi?
Itu sekadar yang diumumkan. Boleh tolong tunjuk contoh di mana peruntukan tersebut dibelanjakan?
Sepertimana juga sejumlah RM32 bilion diumumkan untuk menjayakan BEEP (Bumiputera Economic Empowerment Programme). Ada nampak? Yang ni sebut ber”bilion-bilion” jadi pasti menyerlah, bukan?
Kenapa rata-rata pendemo yang TURUN tunjuk perasaan di ambang tahun baru rata-rata orang Melayu yang merungut tentang kenaikan kos hidup? Bukankah sudah ada BEEP?
I have faith in Kalamanathan, dia lebih efektif dan faham cara bekerja dalam kerajaan. Orang macam Kamal dan civil society macam yang Helen and friends la, kena pastikan apa yang diumumkan itu dikotakkan.
Kalau kita dok marah pasai tiada peruntukkan. Bila dah ada takkan kita nak tidur dan biarkan ianya tercicir dan tidak sampai kepada target? Kalau itu berlaku tentulah salah kita semata-mata. BEEP pun sama.
Yang TURUN ramai tu pun selalu itulah yang dok turun pun Helen, nama pun Semenanjung Tanah Melayu. Lagipun Cinas semua pi The Curve maa!
From what I hear, YB Kamalanathan is ok. Orangnya bersahaja dan dok bawa knapsack (gaya santai).
Tapi kesian dia duduk ‘hot seat’ (Timb. Menteri Pelajaran) dan terpaksa menangani krisis demi krisis.
I believe it is good for YB Kamalanathan to serve in the ‘hot seat’ of the education ministry. It’s a good training ground for him as a politician.
Yang tumbuk muka dia tu orang Umno. Yang ugut dia (pasal SRK Pristana dll kontroversi di sekolah) pun orang Umno juga selain di dimaki-hamun.
That’s why it’s good for him to be in the govt, so that he learns how to work in kerajaan Melayu and show his fellow Indian the right way to deal with kerajaan Melayu. Sekarang dia dah paham.
Btw, yg gembar-gemburkan bagai nak rak pasal SRK Pristana was you, Helen. You didn’t give the same amount of coverage when a Cina teacher paksa his students to eat grass, or your beloved SRJK Cina forced a muslim teacher to remove her tudung.
re: “so that he learns how to work in kerajaan Melayu”
What is Kamalanathan supposed to have learnt from being punched by an Umno member?
re: “and show his fellow Indian the right way to deal with kerajaan Melayu”
What is Kamalanathan supposed to have learnt from being threatened and verbally abused? The punch can be said/dismissed as a one-off episode but I don’t see the other (Umno) Ministers being threatened or verbally abused by the Malay ultras except maybe for Wee Ka Siong.
re: “Sekarang dia dah paham.
What is Kamalanathan supposed to ‘understand’ after being threatened or verbally abused by the Malay ultras?
re: “You didn’t give the same amount of coverage when a Cina teacher paksa his students to eat grass”
Already got enough Umno bloggers to gembar-gemburkan bagai nak rak what.
re: “your beloved SRJK Cina forced a muslim teacher to remove her tudung”
The mualaf teacher should by right be defended by her fellow Chinese tudung-wearer who is the high profile politician holding jawatan besar. Why you all never ask Hannah Yeoh to defend her?
Helen, I believe Kamalanathan is more than what other people might think of him. He was punched by a Malay guy but he didn’t make it into a Ketuanan Melayu bullying the Indians minority thingy, just like what Hindraf or the SK Pristina mother did.
It’s easy to go down and visit that road again but he didn’t. At least he seems not. In politics, especially in Malaysia that is very important. Unlike HY, Kok and the Lims!
So far Kamalanathan in a greater scheme of things as far fighting for the Indians in multi-multi Malaysia is right. I would want to work with that guy. Waytha and Hindraf guys had no cut to be in Gomen. Just like Lims, Kok and HY kakis!
” I have faith in Kalamanathan…..”
I second you on that.
(Saya racist jugak ka? More of a religionist kot?)
re : “The good news is that various networking Indian NGOs and religious groups have for a long time now been helping the poor. The bad news is that it’s impossible for these under-funded groups to address the problem its entirety.”
Is there really a way out from mental-imprisonment as long as the disenfranchised amongst our Indian brothers still bow down to their devas and devis at home whom they imbibe into their hearts …. isn’t the Brahministic caste consciousness being perpetuated with every devotional “puja” they offer to their patron-deities?
What is a Hindu? Is there a place for the One and Absolute God on High, Most Just and Compassionate, in Hindu society, in their Upanishads? [YouTube]
‘ isn’t the Brahministic caste consciousness being perpetuated with every devotional “puja” they offer to their patron-deities?’
Nope. Where did you get that ridiculous idea?
‘ Is there a place for the One and Absolute God on High, Most Just and Compassionate, in Hindu society, in their Upanishads?’
Hinduism is essentially a monotheistic religion (despite what many choose to believe).
You should refer to more credible sources of information on Hinduism than that ignorant moron, Zakar Naik. :)
Unless of course, you have something in common with him.
Btw, how do your seemingly substance induced questions relate to my statement about under-funded NGOs and religious groups helping the poor?
Brahmanic caste system (varna dharma) was a humanly innovated form of social class discrimination imputed upon the Sanatana Dharma (Eternal True Way) as portrayed in the monotheistic Upanishad scriptures.
But how so many of my Indian friends know nothing about Sat-Chit-Ananda of human spiritual consciousness or Tat Tvam Asi (that thou art) for example, which is central to an understanding of the sole and pervasive Cosmic Reality. By and large, their religious horizon does not span beyond mundane temple ceremonies and festive days of deity worship. It is these conceptual cages that imprison the hearts of God’s beloved creatures to this material and iconic world of the Brahmin social hierarchy, even as the more charitable and heroic souls strive to improve the lot of their underprivileged brethren.
We can demonstrate that the Vedic scriptures do not fundamentally support the Varna system of the Brahminic religion of India. The Sanatan Dharma is not only an essential monotheism, it is nothing other than that!
But alas, a Martian couldn’t figure that out if he landed in India and witnessed the thousands of castes, sub-castes, religious sects and sub-sects and complex tribalisms that prevail despite the democratic constitutional underpinnings of modern India and its slow re-discovery of its noble ancient heritage.
‘isn’t the Brahministic caste consciousness being perpetuated with every devotional “puja” they offer to their patron-deities?’
First you imply that the caste system is integral to ritual. There is no element of the Brahministic caste system in the numerous rituals practised by Saivite Hindus in Malaysia – everyone knows that (99.99% of Malaysian Hindu poor are Saivite Hindus).
Ritual, no matter how complex remains just that, ritual. There can be no element of casteism let alone caste consciousness in Hindu ritual itself. This is akin to saying that the “adat bersanding” of Hindu origin is integral to Islamic marriage rites.
Then you admit that the Brahmanic caste system is essentially a human innovation with this: ‘Brahmanic caste system (varna dharma) was a humanly innovated form of social class discrimination imputed upon the Sanatana Dharma (Eternal True Way) as portrayed in the monotheistic Upanishad scriptures.’
The original ideology of the caste system had nothing to do with discrimination. It was all about karmic placement in the present reincarnation based on the dharma or adharma of past lives. The remnants of the discriminatory caste system we see today is purely, as you say, a human innovation (borne of the subconscious ego).
Are you not contradicting yourself with your first and second statements?
‘Is there really a way out from mental-imprisonment as long as the disenfranchised amongst our Indian brothers still bow down to their devas and devis at home whom they imbibe into their hearts’
What “way out” are or mental imprisonment are you referring to when ‘the disenfranchised amongst our Indian brothers still bow down to their devas and devis at home whom they imbibe into their hearts’?
First of all, the act you are referring to is called worship. How does worship ‘imprison the mind’ when we are taught by Hinduism to lessen the dependence on the mind and instead live intuitively and one with the will of God?
And in what way does this so-called mental imprisonment (assuming its true) have any bearing on the disenfranchised?
Last I checked, the word means ‘to be deprived of voting rights.’ Hundreds of thousands Malaysian Indian poor are still stateless today (even UMNO sanctioned MIC readily admits to this fact).
They are disenfranchised by virtue of not having citizenship. They are denied the right to a national identity and all that comes with it.
Whose fault is that?
Hinduism for allegedly imprisoning minds or more than a half a century of deliberate neglect and marginalisation by the UMNO controlled ruling regime?
Are you also implying that the “way out” of this predicament is for all Hindu/Indian poor to free their (imprisoned) minds by converting out of Hinduism into another religion whose adherents are less likely to be subjected to disenfranchisement?
‘By and large, their religious horizon does not span beyond mundane temple ceremonies and festive days of deity worship. It is these conceptual cages that imprison the hearts of God’s beloved creatures to this material and iconic world of the Brahmin social hierarchy, even as the more charitable and heroic souls strive to improve the lot of their underprivileged brethren.’
Ceremonies and festivals are integral to all religions of the world. They provide for an external manifestation and expression of internal faith and are essential for the continuing relevance of the religion for the generations to come.
Pray (sic), tell me how does participation in ceremonies and festivals lead to the imprisonment of hearts ‘to this material and iconic world of the Brahmin social hierarchy’?
I will bear with the utter absurdity of this ridiculous assumption. Spirituality and materialism are antithetic to one another. If at all, materialism should complement spirituality and not the other way around where for example, religion is used in conjunction with race as the justification and birthright to acquire wealth and power at the expense of minorities.
Going by your assumption, all Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Taoists around the world would have by now incorporated a Brahmin social hierarchy into their scriptures, ceremonies, festivals and way of life. :)
‘The Sanatan Dharma is not only an essential monotheism, it is nothing other than that!’
You assert this with confidence.
Yet earlier, you question the monotheistic principle of Hinduism here: ‘ Is there a place for the One and Absolute God on High, Most Just and Compassionate, in Hindu society, in their Upanishads?’
You, my friend are a study in the excesses of self-contradiction borne of conflicting bipolar assumption and inquiry suggestive of borderline schizophrenia, if I may add.
Here’s my advice to you. Hinduism is not for the confused or the irrational or the dogmatic, especially.
Look around for something that can accommodate your elementary intellectual inclinations where fundamental dogma and selective interpretation reigns supreme over philosophy, essence and universal values. I’m sure you won’t have to look far.
It is obvious you’ve not read the document attached to my comments. It seems you’re intent to slug out a polemical duel without regard to sound academic references. OK i’ll patronize your desires somewhat, although it should be made known that your linguistic expression quite exceeds the bounds of good taste and certainly falls short of clarity in meaning.
(1) Can a Dalit or Untouchable preside over a puja ceremony in a Hindu temple? Or a member of the Vaishya merchant caste or the Sudra labourer caste, for that matter? Whoever does not know that the Brahmin class claims exclusive rights in matters relating to the Hindu religion knows not the chauvinistic prejudice of Brahmin caste practices.
(2) You said: “Going by your assumption, all Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Taoists around the world would have by now incorporated a Brahmin social hierarchy into their scriptures, ceremonies, festivals and way of life.”
By what logic did you conclude that from any of my statements?
Anyhow, let’s focus on the poor and disenfranchised in Brahmin religious society, where even Muslims and Christians are officially deemed as “Outcastes”.
Hello, hello, i’m Dalit how are you Sir? Give me no mumbo jumbo prayers without sparing me a square meal please.
Re: It is obvious you’ve not read the document attached to my comments. It seems you’re intent to slug out a polemical duel without regard to sound academic references. OK i’ll patronize your desires somewhat, although it should be made known that your linguistic expression quite exceeds the bounds of good taste and certainly falls short of clarity in meaning.
To hell with your so-called academic references. Frankly, I couldn’t give a flying fuck.
Re: Can a Dalit or Untouchable preside over a puja ceremony in a Hindu temple? Or a member of the Vaishya merchant caste or the Sudra labourer caste, for that matter? Whoever does not know that the Brahmin class claims exclusive rights in matters relating to the Hindu religion knows not the chauvinistic prejudice of Brahmin caste practices.
‘Can a Dalit or Untouchable preside over a puja ceremony in a Hindu temple?’
No and yes.
Not in most places in India but that has no relevance in the Malaysian context which this blog and the subject matter is about.
In Malaysia, there are no Dalits or Untouchables (going by your proud claim, you must be the only if you’re Malaysian).
All who aspire to become priests regardless of caste are locally trained beginning with apprenticeship and then if committed enough, are sent to India to study for years before they come back as full-fledged priests. I know enough priests to know this for a fact.
Re: Anyhow, let’s focus on the poor and disenfranchised in Brahmin religious society, where even Muslims and Christians are officially deemed as “Outcastes”.
1. As I’ve articulated, Malaysian Indians are not poor or disenfranchised due to some fantasy of a Brahminic religious society that you’re dementia has created.
2. You have yet to refute my assertion that it is the deliberate neglect and marginalisation by the UMNO controlled ruling regime that created the Indian economic underclass.
3. Why don’t you try addressing my assertion instead of diverting with your mumbo-jumbo?
Re: You said: “Going by your assumption, all Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Taoists around the world would have by now incorporated a Brahmin social hierarchy into their scriptures, ceremonies, festivals and way of life.”
By what logic did you conclude that from any of my statements?
This: ‘By and large, their religious horizon does not span beyond mundane temple ceremonies and festive days of deity worship. It is these conceptual cages that imprison the hearts of God’s beloved creatures to this material and iconic world of the Brahmin social hierarchy, even as the more charitable and heroic souls strive to improve the lot of their underprivileged brethren.’
As I said, ceremonies and festivals are integral to all religions of the world. They provide for an external manifestation and expression of internal faith and are essential for the continuing relevance of the religion for the generations to come.
This applies to all religions. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Taoism also celebrate ceremonies and festivals.
If according to you, participation in ceremonies and festivals lead to the imprisonment of hearts ‘to this material and iconic world of the Brahmin social hierarchy’, does your assumption also not apply to the other religions?
Apparently, it does. Even Kassim Ahmad, the scholar thinks so.
It seems, there is an emergence of a Brahministic-like caste system among Muslim ulamaks here in MY. Kassim Ahmad, the Controversial scholar slams ‘priest caste’ in Islam: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/254597
Try focusing on this instead of trying to sound knowledgeable on matters you have no idea about.
Helen, I really don’t envy you for blogging.
I wouldn’t have the patience to suffer fools.
Let’s see you slither around this:
No Identification Is A Violation Of Rights
What that essentially meant, was while they were born and had lived all their lives in Malaysia – never having ever gone out of the country – they had never made it into the records of the administration.
The government had no clue they existed. More likely, the BN government didn’t even care.
After all, how were a bunch of illiterate rubber tappers of ethnic Indian origin going to ensure BN’s 50-odd years of reign in Malaysia? (and perhaps another 50 to come)
That is why the government wraps itself in copious amounts of red tape to discourage applicants from trying to register after the two-month registration period given for parents to register their children upon birth.
Statelessness = Disenfranchisement.
Disenfranchise – Deprive of voting rights.
Conclusion: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with mental-imprisonment or Indians who still bow down to their devas and devis at home.
It has everything to with the deliberate neglect and marginalisation of the Indian poor by the ruling regime.
Refute this with facts and logic or stfu.
Seriously, if I were Helen, I’d ban your slippery ass for talking unrelated cock here and save you the trouble of making a fool of your “Dalit” self.
The poor Indians should start adopting good habits by being frugal:
1. Get rid of toddy, dangerous moonshines & other spirits.
2. Cut down on poor eating habits especially for the many obese & fat members among them
3.Stop supporting their own richest man in Malaysia by reducing their Astro subscription by half. They are being lulled into their own fantasies.
They can refer to some of their Chinese neighbours on how to be frugal.
How do the already poor Indians to live frugally?
Najib kesal projek di SJKT lambat siap
Kuala Lumpur: Datuk Seri Najib Razak yang tidak berpuas hati dengan kelewatan menyiapkan projek di Sekolah Jenis Kebangsaan Tamil (SJKT), semalam mengarahkan peruntukan RM100 juta setahun kepada semua SJKT disalurkan terus kepada pengurusan sekolah atau Persatuan Ibu Bapa (PIBG).
Perdana Menteri berkata, langkah itu memudahkan segala perancangan dan pelaksanaan projek SJKT dapat dijalankan dengan lebih berkesan.
Sambil memberi jaminan bahawa kerajaan akan berusaha mengekalkan jumlah peruntukan yang diluluskan bagi meningkatkan kemudahan, termasuk membina bangunan baharu dan pertambahan bilik darjah lebih 300 SJKT di seluruh negara, beliau mahu pelaksanaannya dipercepatkan.
“Saya tidak gembira dengan kadar pelaksanaannya. Saya tidak tahu di mana silapnya. Tanggungjawab saya di Kementerian Kewangan (Menteri Kewangan) bagi duit. Sepatutnya peruntukan diberi terus kepada sekolah untuk dilaksanakan. Jangan berebut hendak jadi kontraktor.
Thanks for the reminder. If I’m not mistaken, the contractor has to be Indian (salah satu syarat).
The GOMEN have done a lot, but they need to publish it more often. Too lazy to repeat it here. A section Indian Community Progress and Development must allocated in main stream media from now on.
I can agree with you that the available programmes for Indians are under-publicized.
I have documented numerous instances and abuse of Indians which the Chinese and Malays do not face.
And a longer response to your post, Helen:
As I see it, the most disadvantaged Malaysian Indians are what is known in rough parlance as the Tamil estate types. While historically concentrated in the estates/plantations many have subsequently become the urban proletariat in the towns. They are descended from lower caste Tamils of Tamil Nadu whose forefathers came to what is now Malaysia as manual workers.
They are unlike the other “not like the usual Indian” Indians – Telugus, Ceylonese Tamils, Sinhalese (Sri Lankan ‘bumiputras’), Malayalis, upper caste Tamils of Tamil Nadu (bearing surnames like Pillai, Iyer etc), Sindhis, Gujaratis, Punjabis, Tamil Muslims even – who came in as merchants (petty or otherwise) or did middle class jobs. Even in India then and now, class and regionalism remain strong – there is little concern for the welfare or the advancement of groups other than one’s own. This mentality remains with the Indians today though their IC’s say Warganegara.
There may be many poor bumis today but there’s social mobility through many channels of the NEP courtesy of the bumi elite and the bumi bureaucrats (of old lah. These days macam waning). There are poor Chinese too but there is some sort of support system through philanthropy and preferential employment in Chinese dominated industries. Well off members of a race help the needy in line with the barisan kongsi spirit. I do not see a similar phenomenon in Indians. I am inclined to believe that the old regional and subcaste ties are still at work. These days the ties may have shifted along class lines but that doesn’t improve the situation.
To ask the Malay dominated government to help is wishful. Malays are not willing to part with the NEP or introduce a new beneficiary. The Chinese cannot be bothered to help. It is the Indians that should lead the way – Indian businesses should hire more Indians!
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