By Norman Fernandez
Press statement
Lim Kit Siang today said that DAP is prepared to give a kindergarten course in politics to MCA President Liow Tiong Lai and his deputy Wee Ka Siong, who have riled up DAP by asking continuously DAP’s stand on hudud.
Lim Kit Siang has reiterated that hudud had never been part of Pakatan Rakyat’s policies and that hudud is not only not suitable for multiracial Malaysia but also against the secular constitution of Malaysia.
It is perplexing how, Lim Kit Siang can say that although the implementation of hudud is not part of Pakatan Rakyat’s common policy platform, the three component parties of Pakatan Rakyat are nevertheless allowed to uphold their own stand on other issues.
If that is the case, then Pakatan Rakyat is like the three-faced Greek mythological animal, and in the case of Pakatan Rakyat, one wants to sleep, another wants to eat while the third wants to bite. Will the rakyat be willing to hedge the bets on a coalition that does not know what coalition politics entails from each partner.
“One wants to sleep, another wants to eat while the third wants to bite”
Lim Kit Siang needs to know that people do not need any more explanation that hudud is not part of the Pakatan Rakyat consensus. It is as obvious as what happens when the cow raises its tail.
What the people demand is that DAP rein in PAS and forewarn PAS of the consequences of PAS acting in flagrant breach of the Pakatan Rakyat’s consensus. In the name of God, remind PAS how Barisan Rakyat unraveled, all thanks to PAS.
DAP must not forget how the rakyat punished DAP for the sins of PAS in 1999 and if DAP cannot rein in PAS, then Pakatan Rakyat will suffer a greater collateral damage than before.
While DAP is now being seen as an apologist for PAS, continuously trying to limit the damage PAS is doing to Pakatan Rakyat, PAS on the other hand shows its middle finger to DAP and Pakatan Rakyat. As far as PAS is concerned DAP can go to hell, for PAS has already made it known that PAS will implement hudud — with or without DAP agreement and Pakatan Rakyat’s consensus.
So, maybe it is PAS that needs a kindergarten course in politics and may in fact need a crash course urgently. Just remember that DAP’s clarion call of Ubah, may turn and be the call to the rakyat to ubah Pakatan Rakyat.
Norman Fernandez is the former DAP Johor deputy chairman
UPDATE:
Poll will close in 3 days. Please vote if you haven’t already
Helen Ang 
opps, another perceptive fella, as if his view is really perceptive. i dun see dap as pas apologist, in fact they shd respect pas stance on hudud n islamic state.
re: “shd respect pas stance on hudud n islamic state”
So if DAP fails to respect PAS’s stance on hudud and Islamic state, it can go to hell?
i dun know, it is up to dap. btw chinese rarely say go to hell. i mean chinese like me.
re: “chinese like me”
Chinese like you are not in charge of the DAP.
HEE HE , I LIKE YOUR REPLY
”MAFAN, MAFAN”
n that is y i say it is up to dap, not sure how is yr reply relevant, kind of showing how perceptive u r?
Kinda showing how irrelevant you (your type of Cina) are insofar as the DAP of today is concerned.
dap of today n yesterday is still the same dap. my type is aware about this. the problem is with the perceptive type.
re: “dap of today n yesterday is still the same dap”
Okay, if you insist.
Well until these time I see only DAP girl willing to wear selendang or hood. Not even zairil willing to wear skull cap ( I even never see his picture praying” which make me doubt his” islam”)
Start with Khalifah Omar Abd Aziz Lim Guan Eng, let’s hear it from the boys
https://www.facebook.com/onsleuth.amiryahya#!/photo.php?fbid=820870527941042&set=a.101874766507292.4274.100000543084712&type=1&theater
re: “my type is aware about this. the problem is with the perceptive type.”
Alright. The perceptive types are the problem because they see the three heads of Pakatan snapping in different directions — where one wants to eat, the other wants to sleep and the third wants to bite (to quote Norman).
Your type kicked out the DAP misfits like Norman and Dr Boo and Ahmad Ton because you are fully aware that the old munafik DAP is the same as the new munafik DAP.
And MCA being perceptive of hudud implementation are a problem and that’s why your type of Cina kicked MCA into the longkang because you don’t need them (anymore). Don’t complain later. As my poll shows, Umno-ites are fully prepared for hudud. I take it that your type is too.
okay since u insist to continue.
u sound as if dap only kick out dissitent today? how old r u? i was never a dap supporter since day 1, what about u? i never change, n i dun see how dap change, unless u r the perceptive type, or u r not old enough.
i never complain, it is u that keep on complaining abt dap n pas n hudud. my stance remain, i rather give my vote to a dog than to umno/bn. n i have no problem if umno support hudud.
re: “i rather give my vote to a dog than to umno/bn”
Noted.
re: “n i have no problem if umno support hudud.”
Noted too. I don’t know if you voted in my poll or not but I’ll just take it that “some” Chinese would also be willing to tick ‘Yes’ to the survey question.
When the tail is smarter than the dog, this is what happen!
“i rather give my vote to a dog than to umno/bn”
HY while we are at it, I’m just wondering what kind of dog would do it for you?
You know, when this blog first stated, the fella HY actually could make rational, reasonable arguments. But look at the fella know. His comments are vindictive, especially those directed at the Indians. Really pitiful.
u dun know the diff btw indian n indians? pity.
actually any 4 legs will do, umno/bn still win me over if it contest again a snake.
No HY, DAP yesterday and today are different things all together. Just look at the previous generation that joint DAP.
They willing to go all out to fight what DAP stand for and that is Malaysia Malaysian.
Today DAP breed will go out for Malaysian Malaysia. See the differen….
:pssarah
DAP should respect PAS stance on hudud and Islamic state? Fine, but what about UMNO and PAS joining forces on this issue. A very reviled party co-operating with a party of a coalition that most Chinese supported, would you respect that too?
Given a choice and enough persuasions (how many unity talks already held?), I’m sure PAS would rather stick with UMNO fellas than with DAP; both are abang-adik, orang Melayu/Islam.
DAP politikus desperately aware that they are are not part of that “brotherhood”, that’s why Hannah Yeoh and her gals are trying so hard to get membership into that elusive club by wearing tudung and going to mosques.
enlighten me how chinese n dap can halt a pas + umno join force? use yr brain a little ok kah?
Re DAP politikus desperately aware that they are are not part of that “brotherhood”, that’s why Hannah Yeoh and her gals are trying so hard to get membership into that elusive club by wearing tudung and going to mosques.
And the Chinese supporters of the DAP continue to believe that together with Pas and PKR they will usher in a new beginning for Malaysia. I don’t know who is more delusional, the DAP crooks like Hannah Yeoh or the Chinese who support them.
For Pas, the partnership with DAP and PKR is temporal.
An equally matched, finely balanced partnership is not in either Pas’ or PKR’s interest although for the DAP, it gives them leverage. The DAP’s, and by extension, the Chinese community’s strategy is play off the Malay dominated parties against one another with the objective of preventing them from ever coming together as one united front.
Pas could see this. PKR could also see this.
So the play now is, can Umno be coaxed into a partnership with either/both Pas and PKR ?
This will depend on whether the other BN component parties, principally the Chinese and Indian parties can deliver the votes to BN.
The GE13 demonstrated that this is no longer possible.
To keep this facade alive, and to forced Umno into a corner, Pas must utilize the DAP to dispose of the Chinese and Indian component parties of the BN by continuously raising the issue of Hudud. The more the MCA, MIC oppose Hudud, the more irritated the Malay Muslims become, heaping more pressure on Umno to respond. Thus we have Umno leaders like Tok Pa coming out saying Umno MPs from Kelantan will support Hudud if it is tabled.
Once the non Malay, non Muslim component parties of the BN are disposed of, Pas can come out and offer to Umno the one and only choice. Join us to preserve your power or sail into history. PKR, being opportunistic and a party of personality issues, will come in later once Pas can coax Umno into giving in to its demands.
re: “Umno leaders like Tok Pa coming out saying Umno MPs from Kelantan will support Hudud if it is tabled”
KuLi too.
I always have believed that DAP should stand on its own feet… forget about PR, its not worth it….. the others have no principles….
imantulen
DAP got principles ah! CEC election also cannot get right. Senang2 blame Excel.
” 3 HYPOSTASES in 1 OUSIA ” came to be accepted as an epitome of the orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity of Pauline Christianity. If you can ascertain what that means, then you will possibly stand a chance at comprehending Norman’s three-faced Greek mythological animal called the Pakatan Rakyat. It remains as baffling to any mind today as it ever was, since the trinitarian godhead was innovated.
Just a thought
About this piece of current news:
A Muslim convert Viran Nagapan (now known as Izwan bin Abdullah) kidnapped his 6-year-old son from the boy’s Hindu mother S. Deepa in Jelebu, Negeri Sembilan, see http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/04/10/Convert-took-my-son-says-exwife-Incident-occurs-barely-two-days-after-court-awards-custody-of-child/
It reminds me of the Tan Yi Min case where the convert mother Fatimah Fong binti Abdullah got the Selangor religious authorities to snatch their 7-year-old daughter from the custody of her Buddhist husband.
Both Mee Hui @ Fatimah and Viran @ Izwan had converted their underaged children to Islam without the consent of their estranged spouses.
The DAP rapacious head of the three-headed Unholy Trinity betrayed the Chinese and Indian communities by their selling out in order to win Malay-Muslim votes. 3Gs: The GREEDY DAP evangelistas are guilty of exploiting the Gospel in their pursuit of Gold and Glory.
‘“Saya tidak melihat Izwan mempunyai sebarang niat untuk menghina mahkamah sebagaimana cuba digembar-gemburkan sesetengah pihak. Sebagai seorang bapa yang sangat kecewa dengan keputusan Mahkamah Tinggi pada 7 April lalu, beliau sanggup melakukan tindakan nekad tersebut berdasarkan keputusan Mahkamah Syariah sedia ada.”
Demikian dinyatakan oleh Naib Yang Dipertua Ikatan Muslimin Malaysia (ISMA) Cawangan Seremban Tuan Haji Omar Kassim kepada ISMAweb.’
http://www.ismaweb.net/2014/04/bapa-ambil-anak-berpandukan-perintah-mahkamah-syariah-nydp-isma-seremban/
‘IGP’s job is to enforce civil, not syariah law’, see http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/259785
The civil court awarded custody to the Hindu mother.
What the man comminited is an act of kidnapping which is against Malaysian law yet the police appear to refuse to enforce the law.
The Indian convert cannot unilaterally convert his children to Islam against their mother’s wishes as both children were born within a civil marriage and not a Muslim marriage.
The Syariah Court decision is one sided as the wife is a Hindu and not only does the court have no jurisdiction over her but she cannot appear before the judge.
This is what is actually going to happen once the Islamic Penal Code is enforced.
If a Muslim steals something from a non Muslim, for instance, the non Muslim victim lodges a report at the police station, the cops arrest the perpetrator but he can’t be charged because technically, he is subject to the Islamic Penal Code, not the Civil Code.
In a sense, enforcing the Islamic Penal Code greatly benefits the Muslim at the expense of the non Muslim. It’s all about jurisdiction.
No worries for Chinese like Hua Yong. They hate Umno more than they’re worried about any repercussions.
But you also know that the Islamic Penal Code can be amended to extend its reach to also include non Muslims as in the case of the Christians being prosecuted in Pakistan for allegedly insulting Islam don’t you ?
Sigh. I’m the 10 percent Chinese, remember …
The 90 percent Chinese swallow the DAP’s reassurances that hudud will not affect non-Muslims and they’re looking forward to lots of Umno people becoming orang ‘cacat’ (hand amputated).
The 90% forgets that the law, once enforced, can also be used against them as shown in the case involving the Christian couple in Pakistan.
DAP takde beritahu ke ?
re: “DAP takde beritahu ke?”
DAP is dispensing a lot of Holy Water.
Constituents who are intoxicated need not be fed with reason.
Don’t have to look to Pakistan. Nearer to home, see Acheh and its imposition of hudud.
So what about Acheh and its Hudud Helen? What’s wrong with that? BTW seriously, are we playing world police like Uncle Sam now? Meddling into other sovereign country affairs?
We’re not meddling with Acheh politics. We’re merely showing Acheh as the nearest geographical example that hudud will cover non-Muslims.
The holy water will act as shield and protect the disciples from any harm that may be inflicted by syariah laws.
DAP evangelists have that godly presence so they think.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/10751110/Christians-in-Pakistan-sentenced-to-death-over-a-text.html
The fate that awaits them.
The Chinese and the Christians can thank the DAP evangelistas for it.
hate? cannot match u, 24/7.
Just listen to yourself “i rather give my vote to a dog than to umno/bn” @ 2014/04/12 at 12:33 am , and how you’ve been baiting ‘Indian’ with “snake”.
The Chinese opposition politics is nothing but hate. Hate is your molten core.
And no, it’s not confined to just DAP. Look at what PKR’s Christian Elizabeth Wong said about Chew Mei Fun and what PKR’s Machang Bubuk Adun did to Najib’s cut-out (stuff kangkung into the mouth).
The Dictator was right about how Chinese opposition politics has warped and twisted you.
Ask yourself … some 5 years ago were you mouthing profanities as you’re now doing in the blogs?
i wrote this “i rather give my vote to a dog than to umno/bn” in MT more than 10 years back. think back where were u 10 years back? i give my vote to pas 20 years back. i only support dap when kua, lee and those from klscah join dap. dun use profanities doesn’t mean yr level of hatred is lesser. how often do i ever criticise umno / leaders compare to u on dap / leaders?
You’re Chinese opposition through and through. Now you’re part of the tsunami wave. And the Ubah-Ini Kali lah-Kuburkan Umno-ABU,ABU,ABU gang are fuelled by Hate. You all will self-combust. It’ll be worth the watch.
This hudud business is the beginning turning point.
re: “how often do i ever criticise umno / leaders compare to u on dap / leaders?”
Not in my blog but elsewhere where you use profanities. You don’t really use profanities in my blog either.
like that ka?
Jurisdiction gives you power. Once you have separate jurisdiction, you can practically do whatever you want knowing that you are protected through jurisdiction.
By the way, I present to you all the theme song for Holy Water.
[YouTube]
When DAP tells the 90% “You must believe” they will respond with “I believe”. L o L !!!
Why blame the DAP for the development of extremist and chauvinistic thinking in religious departments and certain segments of society who think it is all right to snatch and convert children without consent of their spouse?
Funny enough, it is the Islamic extremists who blame the DAP, Sisters in Islam, liberal Muslims, Anwar, and others, for the Civil Court’s judgement.
re: “Why blame the DAP for the development of extremist and chauvinistic thinking in religious departments and certain segments of society”
Action and reaction, push and shove.
Granted that torching the churches in early 2010 following the first High Court judgment on the Allah case was an extremist act. But no Buddhist, Taoist or Hindu temples were attacked by the arsonists. Only churches.
It’s obvious that the extremism was provoked by a specific segment, i.e. evangelistas.
As for your accusations of Malay/Muslim chauvinism, there is a mirror counter accusation of “biaDAP” and “kurang ajar” which I’m sure you’ve come across often enough.
Why accuse DAP or make the link to the party?
You can see how they spell the word “biadab”. You know which party leaders are being called kurang ajar. The boycott Chinese products campaign is tagged ABCD – Asal Bukan Cina DAP. The evangelistas form the leadership of DAP, and not of MCA or Gerakan.
Re You can see how they spell the word “biadab”. You know which party leaders are being called kurang ajar. The boycott Chinese products campaign is tagged ABCD – Asal Bukan Cina DAP. The evangelistas form the leadership of DAP, and not of MCA or Gerakan.
Just as the DAP is doing with the Ubah slogan, you can see how this is being ingrained in the minds of the majority, the Malays/Muslims.
This will not benefit the Chinese community in the long term. People will react. Not if but when.
My advice to the Chinese is, look around you. Look beyond Sisters In Islam and those you think are “liberal” and who cater to your whims and fancy.
The majority community, which I shall now refer to as Malays+Muslims, despite over 4 decades of empowerment through various government policies, the majority community is by and large conservative and the rising conservatism that we are seeing in other Muslim societies around the world, this rising conservatism is taking on a firmer root in our country and it will not tolerate any opposition to its demands.
Just click on the link posted by a reader on the case of the Pakistani husband and wife.
This is not extremism or fundamentalism initiated by Umno, Pas or any other Muslim NGOs. This is a demand by the majority community that the culture and norms of the majority be respected.
“But no Buddhist, Taoist or Hindu temples were attacked by the arsonists. Only churches.”
With regard to that issue alone.
But, if we look at the bigger picture.
That is just one case. There are more cases of intolerance-fuelled incidences directed towards the Hindus, Buddhists and other communities.
So, the extremism would not be provoked by your so-called evangelistas, but rather the racial and religious policies of the government over time who needs a scapegoat ‘du-jour’ to blame… be it Christians, Chinese, Hindus, Hindraf, Shia’s, or homosexuals.
See comment by Ahmad Ibrahim on this page @ April 12, 2014 at 11:53 am
re: “So, the extremism would not be provoked by your so-called evangelistas, but rather the racial and religious policies of the government”
The known death sentences for blasphemy under hudud (that are reported by the media of late) have been meted to Christians.
Thank you for proving my point.
Pakistan’s descent into a religiously intolerant nation and “The Club of Doom” is the result of its government policies which courted religious extremism and Islamism for power.
Christians are one of the main minorities in Pakistan besides the Hindus, who also suffer religious persecution and bigotry.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/a-hindu-hell-on-earth-families-are-being-torn-apart-by-their-desperation-to-flee-persecution-in-pakistan-8606774.html
re: “Thank you for proving my point”
You’re delusionally syok sendiri.
re: “Pakistan’s descent into a religiously intolerant nation and “The Club of Doom” is the result of its government policies which courted religious extremism and Islamism for power.”
Correct. It was a mad race to out-Islamize their political rivals. The generals, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Zia ul-Haq were instrumental.
re: “government policies” in Malaysia
But of course. Hudud, if enacted, will be Umno’s call.
It’s like May 13. The Malays mengamok. Who provoked them to that state?
Umno has not shown any inclination to effect hudud in the last six decades it has been in power prior to the Chinese tsunami. Who is driving Umno’s back against the wall?
“Umno has not shown any inclination to effect hudud in the last six decades it has been in power prior to the Chinese tsunami.”
Remember that Umno moved toward religious and racial extremism in the 1980s and 1990s, despite receiving votes from the Chinese and Indians.
“Who is driving Umno’s back against the wall?”
Umno’s own desperation to remain in power. The attempted alliance with PAS is its last stocks in its survival kit.
re: “Remember that Umno moved toward religious and racial extremism in the 1980s and 1990s”
And Anwar was the chief instigator.
PAS enacted hudud in Kelantan and Terengganu during the period you mention. Zaid Ibrahim (Umno lawyer) tried to challenge it in court.
re: “Umno’s own desperation to remain in power. The attempted alliance with PAS is its last stocks in its survival kit.”
Sleeping tigers should not be disturbed. But no, the Dapster-evangelistas go and poke the tiger in the eye, taunting and provoking that the tiger is toothless.
Raja Petra has already articulated this:
Sun Tzu’s Art of War
“Standing on top of the hill and shouting at your wounded enemy, while waving a sword, that you are going to come down from the hill to slit his throat is not what Sun Tzu taught us.”
“Let both sides be warned. This has now turned into a duel to the death.” — Raja Petra Kamarudin
Re That is just one case. There are more cases of intolerance-fuelled incidences directed towards the Hindus, Buddhists and other communities.
The mob makes no distinction on who is who or what.
Right now, and I’m going to state this again so that the message is crystal clear, the other minorities are being classed as Christians whether they are Christians or otherwise, in the case of our country.
Just as I have said, the majority community, my community, is becoming more conservative, not liberal as portrayed by the opposition pact. You had better get this because I have said this to many of my fellow Chinese and Indian citizens that if you continue to misread the situation, of what is really taking hold on my community right now, you are inviting serious backlash, as witness increasingly in other Muslim dominated communities around the world.
What we are witnessing right now is Iran 2.0, for those who still have vivid memories of the Iranian Revolution in 1979, that revolution was provoked by the yearning for a return to an original past of Muslim empowerment which the Shah sacrificed in order to serve entrenched western interest, with its rabid westernization of a devout Muslim society.
Now we’re seeing the whole pattern being repeated again, Muslim conservatism is a response to rising westernization.
You can continue to make your claims that you have Sisters In Islam and the like that represent a new, liberal strand of Islam but, read what I’ve written earlier, these groups are not representative of the wider Muslim community.
I repeat again. The culture and norms of the majority must be respected.
Spot on.
But no point talking to Dapster odikals. We’ve already determined that they’re delusional and not to mention perpetually hysterical.
The evangelistas are smart enough to get it but alas, they’re too Greedy for the Gold and the Glory.
“What we are witnessing right now is Iran 2.0, for those who still have vivid memories of the Iranian Revolution in 1979, that revolution was provoked by the yearning for a return to an original past of Muslim empowerment which the Shah sacrificed in order to serve entrenched western interest, with its rabid westernization of a devout Muslim society.”
Ironically, much of the violence and hate in these recent unrest are directed at the Shia’s and Iranians. And vice-versa. See Syria.
Much of the conservatism has driven those countries into basket cases. To quote Syed (though I do not agree with him all the time)… The Club Of Doom.
“You can continue to make your claims that you have Sisters In Islam and the like that represent a new, liberal strand of Islam but, read what I’ve written earlier, these groups are not representative of the wider Muslim community.
I repeat again. The culture and norms of the majority must be respected.”
Neither is Isma, Perkasa, and the other extremist ethnic-religious front groups. Berjasa, which is Isma’s political wing, failed to make an appearance in Kajang. Perkasa has been shown out.
In fact, neither are they representative of Malaysia as a whole
re: “Berjasa, which is Isma’s political wing”
Woit! You’re holding the wrong end of the stick lah. Really, you oppo Born Agains have huge lacunae in political knowledge.
Berjasa predates Isma.
No red herrings please:
https://www.google.com.my/search?site=&source=hp&q=berjasa+isma&oq=berjasa+isma
We already know that you’re an odikal. You don’t have to keep proving it to us time and again.
You wrote: “Berjasa, which is Isma’s political wing”, meaning Isma is the main body and Berjasa is the wing.
In GE13, Isma contested on the Berjasa ticket. Meaning Berjasa is the registered political party and it is valid for them to contest elections.
Isma is not registered with the EC and thus it is not valid for Isma to contest under their organization logo unless their candidates stand as independents.
It’s very straightforward that Isma tumpang Berjasa, and not that Berjasa is a wing of Isma. (e.g. of the use of the word “wing”: Puteri and Pemuda are the Umno wings). If Isma tumpang Berjasa, how can Isma be the main body and Berjasa the “wing”?
I repeat: Berjasa predates Isma. I wish odikals like you would do a little research first before opening your mouth.
Berjasa was founded in 1977 by the then Chief Minister of Kelantan.
Isma was founded in 1997 after splintering from JIM.
re: “red herrings”
You, AC-DC, remind me of rotten fish.
See what I mean by a red-herring?
We are debating the influence of these ultra-conservative groups, and you write a 150-word post to nitpick on the Berjasa-Isma connection. So technically, Berjasa is not Isma’s political wing, but no one can deny the strong ties they have, at the moment.
Meanwhile, lets return to the main topic before you digress again. If Isma was as influential as you claim, they would have made an appearance in last month’s by-election instead of being a no-show.
I’m correcting the factual error wrt to your claim that Berjasa is Isma’s political wong.
Just as you corrected mine on the lack of Bahasa Malaysia words in the George Town signages.
You see the difference between us?
When my error is pointed out, I acknowledged without fuss (to msleepyhead) that I stand corrected, and I don’t try to menegakkan benang basah.
Separately, look at all the nasty, personal insinuations that you made about me over that signboard languages issue. You said I was deliberately making “disingenuous omission”, and in typical evangelista style, accused me of stirring “a two-minute hate”.
Well, I could say the say about you wrt to your compulsive obsession of constantly dragging Isma into the picture, sometimes even when off topic.
And when I correct your self-proclaimed “technical mistake”, you claim that I’m throwing a red herring, that I’m nitpicking, that I’m digressing.
When I made the error about the signboards, it’s not given the benefit of the doubt as a technical mistake. Only you make “technical mistakes”. According to you, I make “disingenuous omission”.
Come on, lah, at at glance the big picture – all those signboards in Chinese – does look like Hong Kong of that same era.
You’re disingenuously digressing by comparing a present-day Hong Kong skyscape of high-rise towers – THE PICTURE LINK YOU SUBMITTED – with George Town in the 1980s. Why not show photos of HK in the late 70s and early 80s (since HK is more advanced than GT)? Apple with apple comparison, lah.
If I want to follow your methods, I can also say that you’re throwing a red herring, nitpicking and digressing in devoting a similar 150 words to my statement which has already been redacted after msleepyhead pointed it out.
You see what I mean about evangelistas? Generally the Malays are willing to mengalah if you can argue your case persuasively. What they don’t like is your (evangelista) style of putar-belit — the ‘Allah’ squabble the best case in point.
Your kind of people lack the capacity to understand this: It’s not winning or losing the argument; it’s the sneaky deviousness which characterizes the way you argue that makes the Melayu mengamok. Because the Malays are totally unable to match your (referring to Dapster-evangelista) sneaky deviousness of and hence the Malays always come the worse in any verbal combat.
“You see the difference between us?”
Yes. I was writing about the influence of organisations such as Isma, which is strongly affiliated with Berjasa. I used the wrong word ‘wing’, but the firm connection between Isma and Berjasa is well documented and known.
Meanwhile, you posted the photograph of the Penang street scene with the text:
“As you can see from the street scenes above, the writing on most of the business signboards was in Chinese. Some were in English and none in Malay.”
…in a topic that reeks of hate-mongering towards Penang people and the Malaysian Chinese.
Fortunately, mssleepyhead caught and pointed out your mistake.
“You’re disingenuously digressing by comparing a present-day Hong Kong skyscape of high-rise towers – THE PICTURE LINK YOU SUBMITTED – with George Town in the 1980s. ”
Hong Kong in the 1980s already had a lot of skyscrapers. Meanwhile, if I recall reading an article about Georgetown, the first skyscraper in the island was only completed in 1980s (Komtar).
https://www.google.com.my/search?site=&source=hp&q=hong+kong+skyline+1980s
“You see what I mean about evangelistas? Generally the Malays are willing to mengalah if you can argue your case persuasively. What they don’t like is your (evangelista) style of putar-belit — the ‘Allah’ squabble the best case in point.”
“Your kind of people lack the capacity to understand this: It’s not winning or losing the argument; it’s the sneaky deviousness which characterizes the way you argue that makes the Melayu mengamok. Because the Malays are totally unable to match your (referring to Dapster-evangelista) sneaky deviousness of and hence the Malays always come the worse in any verbal combat..”
Going through this two paragraphs of ‘putar-belit’ and garbage, it is evident you do not like it when others disprove your argument. If you put up faulty logic and half-truths, do not be upset when others dispute and disprove it instead of just nodding and say “yes yes”.
Meanwhile, lets return to the main topic before you digress again. If Isma was as influential as you claim, they would have made an appearance in last month’s by-election instead of being a no-show.
re: “Fortunately, mssleepyhead caught and pointed out your mistake.”
Obviously msleepyhead being much younger has better eyesight. As he/she also said, “others too small and the image’s resolution was too low to read”.
Unlike you, I did not accuse msleepyhead of “nitpicking”, “digressing” and “throwing a red herring” for pointing out.
re: “Hong Kong in the 1980s already had a lot of skyscrapers.”
Heh, diverting the topic. (You started it with your skyscape photo link.) The point that islam1st had made was about the Chinese signages fronting the George Twon shops. He said it looked like a scene from Hong Kong.
In the 1980s, HK may have already had skyscrapers, zoos, museums and art galleries but why divert from the matter of streets with shops that carry hanzi signboards — which is the main topic? Are you saying that in the 1980s, HK did not have Chinese shops with hanzi business signs?
When you accuse me of digression, you’re being self-conscious. Everybody can see. People are not blind.
“Obviously msleepyhead being much younger has better eyesight.”
Not to mention a better sense of logic than you.
“Heh, diverting the topic. (You started it with your skyscape photo link.) The point that islam1st had made was about the Chinese signages fronting the George Twon shops. He said it looked like a scene from Hong Kong.”
“In the 1980s, HK may have already had skyscrapers, zoos, museums and art galleries but why divert from the matter of streets with shops that carry hanzi signboards — which is the main topic? Are you saying that in the 1980s, HK did not have Chinese shops with hanzi business signs?”
You two posted photographs to prove a superficial similarity. I posted another photograph that easily disproves it; Hong Kong with its glitz, glam, and high rises, which Penang did not have in the 1980s, and even today.
re: “You two posted photographs to prove a superficial similarity.”
I did not post any photographs to do with anything Hong Kong and nor did I ever mention HK in my posting.
You’re doing a typical evangelista putar-belit.
It was islam1st who tried to make the superficial link between Hong Kong and Penang.
Meanwhile, you posted a photo and incorrectly mentioned there were no Malay words on the signboards.
So since you’re admitting that it was islam1st who linked the two HK photos, at least lah be gracious enough to acknowledge that you made yet another “mistake” in alleging me.
And I posted 3 George Town photos. Two of them are too small to make out the Malay words.
“So since you’re admitting that it was islam1st who linked the two HK photos, at least lah be gracious enough to acknowledge that you made yet another “mistake” in alleging me.”
Right, my mistake.
“And I posted 3 George Town photos. Two of them are too small to make out the Malay words.”
It did not stop you from claiming there were no Malay words on the shop signs. And it was not too small for msleepyhead or me to notice.
I said “two” of them are too small to make out the Malay words. Can’t you read?
And alright, I admit that just because I didn’t see them – the hanzi and English were prominent, the Malay wording in the smallest size (compare that “TASTY” is 3x the size of “Kedai Daging Salai”) – it does not mean that they were not there.
There a laws in Quran, but not Hudud. U can ask syed on this.
If you really Quran, quran always stress that we need to use our brain. But these people do not use their brain. If they have one.
not ‘really quran’ but ‘read quran’… my bad.
errr, do you mind clarifying which Side are you referring to? Arab ke India?
I have this one question. I really need answers. Perhaps friends here could lend some help.
“What Pas people really think of the Chinese in private”.
I know some Pas people, professionals, I asked them this question but somehow, the way, the manner in which they answered the question, makes me think that their answer is not what they really think.
Let just say I meet with two PAS members. One in the management team aka leader while the other from ordinary member aka supporter.
First one will answer that they working with a friends and will respected DAP. They will work together and help one another.
The second will call them kafiruun and say they only worked with them to ensured the power is in their hand. Once they get the power, they will implemented hudud to all regardless the races.
Both in their dream wanted to become the great leaders who rules above everyone with hudud law (their versions) as a base of their power.
;dsarah
PAS, DAP and PKR are like individuals whose hearts are corrupted with ulterior motives even as they swear allegiance to one another; and with their bad hearts comes their perverted plans and actions. The “Politics of Hate” corrupts and causes us to forego our principles and therefore to lose our integrity.
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you yourself are the one who gets burned.” — Gautama Buddha
http://www.sinarharian.com.my/nasional/hudud-annuar-sedia-lobi-wakil-rakyat-umno-1.269664
“Annuar berkata, Umno mempunyai 87 dari 88 ahli Parlimen beragama Islam dan beliau percaya sebahagian besar akan menyokong pembentangan itu dibuat.”
He was trying to sound moderate here. Not sebahagian besar but all of them. No right thinking Muslims will vote against it and allow their opponents to accuse them of not being devout Muslims later on.
“Saya sudah bercakap sebahagian besar Ahli Parlimen Umno dan mereka positif untuk menyokong,”
Getting closer and closer. First Kelantan, then the rest of Malaysia. Personally, I believe the issue of implementing Hudud will be settle on a state by state basis.
Aaaah, Ronald Kiandee is the Umno Christian.
Do you have breakdown for the religious affiliation of MPs in the PBB?
Dr. Wan Junaidi Tuanku Jaafar – Santubong
Fadillah Yusof – Petra Jaya
Rubiah Binti Wang – Kota Samarahan
James Dawos Mamit – Mambong
Nancy Shukri – Batang Sadong
Rohani Abdul Karim – Batang Lupar
Dounglas Uggah Embas – Betong
Norah Abdul Rahman – Tanjong Manis
Wahab Dolah – Igan
Leo Michael Toyad – Mukah
Alexander Nanta Linggi – Kapit
Ahmad Lai Bujang – Sibuti
Hasbi Habibollah – Limbang
Henry Som Agong – Lawas
You’re a smart person. Go figure out yourself.
Their names can be deceptive (think Idris Jala) while “Nancy” is not Christian.
The Sabah/Sarawak Christians even have bin or binti.
Btw, the guy’s Muhammad Leo Michael Toyad bin Abdullah now. Add his vote to the hudud headcount?
Mambong, Betong, Kapit, Lawas excluded, the rest I believe are Muslim.
Thanks.
In that case, Umno + PAS + PBB Muslims have a simple majority (minimum 112 MPs) in hand already.
Okay, I m going to make this quick since I have an appointment this afternoon, we’ll continue some other time.
You add those from Bang Nuar’s camp and you have a comfortable majority in parliament.
But as I have said, this issue will be settle through a state by state basis, the state assemblies will pass it and then implementation will begin, for as long as there’s no objection from parliament.
Since we already have a simple and comfortable majority in parliament, even if some MPs were to table some bills or motions that oppose hudud, such bills or motions will be easily voted out by the majority.
Well, in other words, parliament keeps silence, if opposition to hudud comes out in parliament and is voted out, then we’re looking at it being implemented.
At least, that’s how I look at it. We continue some other time.
Please join me in boycotting Coldplay’s latest video and album as it stars Zhang Yi Zi who badmouthed our country on the MH370 issue.
http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1034685/coldplay-frontman-chris-martin-uncouples-with-zhang-ziyi-in-magic-music-video
An apology from Coldplay and Zhang Ziyi is pending.
http://m.merdeka.com/peristiwa/artis-cantik-china-zhang-ziyi-memaki-sikap-malaysia-soal-mh370.html
What’s the relevance of Coldplay & Zhang Ziyi to this thread, Mulan?
So how is the DAP relation with PAS. I ask a lot of PAS people about this. Keep get deflected by issue of Rosmah & Muhyiddin.
What would your choice of sauce? Sweet & sour or truly chinese style ;)
Pakatan Rakyat’s mindset;
PAS – can marry legally to 4 wives
DAP – One legal wife and many concubines
Keadilan – One wife and many prostitutes
So mess with their ways that they cannot even manage garbage disposal and today the very basic of human needs – WATER.
Busuk le oghang2 Selangor, pi kerja pi sekolah tak mandi! Berak jamban tak leh flush pasai takde air! Habih tercemar air2 sungai semua terpaksa berak kat sungai.
‘Pakatan Rakyat’s mindset;
PAS – can marry legally to 4 wives
DAP – One legal wife and many concubines
Keadilan – One wife and many prostitutes’
Aku Gelak Sampai Jatuh Kerusi!
ROTFL
:Dsarah
Ha..ha..ha..the ‘orang cacat muslim’ have rule the world hundred of years. They came to China and threre are more than 20 million chinese muslim in China.
Please learn more about hudud here,
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=773579542653660&id=100000048648008&set=a.220587611286192.66461.100000048648008&source=46&refid=17
re: “Ha..ha..ha..the ‘orang cacat muslim’ have rule the world hundred of years.”
It’s true that Islam had its Golden Age. However today the Muslim countries languish at the bottom of the quality of life index ranking / table.
Picture Afghanistan and Pakistan. Somalia and Sudan. Lately Syria and Libya.
re: “there are more than 20 million chinese muslim in China”
China does not practice hudud law.
‘It’s true that Islam had its Golden Age. However today the Muslim countries languish at the bottom of the quality of life index ranking / table. ‘
Its just too bad that Muslims, and their tanahair had been the subject of the Setan Besar. Apparently the Judeo-Christian West are still going for our Golds. Malaysia is next!
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2188.html
Come on Helen, don’t tell me you are oblivious to the New World Order, do you really believe they bomb Iraq and Afghanistan for democracy and world peace? WMD my ass!
If we look at our local scenario, and just at one area — the micro-level of the evangelista slick and smooth operators in the new and social media, I’m afraid that like elsewhere in the world, the Malaysian Christians and their allies (such as TMI, Malay Mail Online, J-Star) are winning over the Malay Muslims.
‘ I’m afraid that like elsewhere in the world, the Malaysian Christians and their allies (such as TMI, Malay Mail Online, J-Star) are winning over the Malay Muslims.’
Innaddina ‘Indallahil Islam..
Allah SWT is on our side. The most important thing is the ultimate win. Along the way, being a collateral damage or not, is never a concern. Good deeds in the name of Allah are all that matters most.
Something from the Ming dynasty…
http://www.blogammar.com/sajak-maharaja-cina-dinasti-ming-untuk-nabi-muhammad/
Masih ada orang Han yang ingat Islam hanyalah agama yang sesuai bagi orang Hui sahaja.
Kat Malaysia ni, since the Cinas telah diajarkan untuk benci dan pandang rendah kepada Melayu, jadi agama orang-orang Melayu won’t be fashionable enough for them to emulate. The Cinas would rather go blond than having Khalil for a first name! Thus they thronged the money harvesting churches in droves.
But for us Khalil is a cool! [YouTube]
Its not the question of wether China practice hudud or not. The point is how come the ‘superior’ race in their own tanah air can accept Islam as their religion. Furthermore it is not the weak and the poor that accept Islam, it is accepted by the Ming dynasty emperor himself. Logically who would accept a religion that makes its followers become ‘orang cacat’ ?
Today muslim countries are low ranking because they abondoned the teaching of Islam, they prefer to become donkeys of the west. They prefer to live the western way of live imitating the west like monkeys.
re: “The point is how come the ‘superior’ race in their own tanah air can accept Islam as their religion.”
You say there are 20 million Muslims in China. Some Bible organizations claim that there are as already 200 million Christians in China, see http://www.billionbibles.org/china/how-many-christians-in-china.html
We can make your same argument: “The point is how come the ‘superior’ race in their own tanah air can accept [Christianity] as their religion.”
re: “Logically who would accept a religion that makes its followers become ‘orang cacat’?”
Let’s make it clear that the implementation of hudud is carried out by men who make the decisions and not by Allah Himself. For all we know, among the enforcement officers would be like this guy –‘Fatwa’ against Mickey Mouse
See, http://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=29583
Similarly, the “implementation” of Christianity is carried out by men who make the decisions and not by God Himself.
Can I rephrase your question: re: “Logically who would accept a religion [Roman Catholism] among whose clergy are too many pedophiles who rape young boys?”
re: “Today Muslim countries are low ranking because they abandoned the teaching of Islam”
Okay. But they’ve also abandoned reason.
re: “They prefer to live the western way of life imitating the west like monkeys.”
If they lived Western way of life (scientific*), they would have invented the Internet and its search engines, Facebook, iPad, iPhone and the many scientific breakthroughs.
* Which is not to say that all Westerners are scientific in their outlook, it’s just a broad generalization, i.e. briefly, the Western countries are willing to pour money into research and they hold many patents
‘If they lived Western way of life (scientific*)* Which is not to say that all Westerners are scientific in their outlook, it’s just a broad generalization, i.e. briefly, the Western countries are willing to pour money into research and they hold many patents’
Who says Islam was never SCIENTIFIC???
CLONING
[Satan said:] “I will lead them astray and fill them with false hopes. I will command them and they will cut off cattle’s ears. I will command them and they will change Allah’s creation.” Anyone who takes satan as his protector in place of Allah has clearly lost everything.” (Surat an-Nisa’, 119)
The above verse contains the expression “yubattikunna,” which derives from the verb “battaka” meaning ”to cut off or break off.” The term “yughayyirunna” in the verse derives from the verb “ghayyara,” meaning “to change, alter, impair a thing’s original form.” At the end of both verbs appears the confirmatory letter ”nun.” With these expressions, verse 119 of Surat an-Nisa’ may, in one aspect, be pointing to the scientific activity of copying or cloning of organisms. (Allah knows the truth.) That is because cloning experiments are generally conducted with cells taken from an animal’s ear. To put it another way, a replica living thing is produced with the taking of cells from tissue samples “cut from animals’ ears,” just as described in the verse.
A report by the German Federal Agricultural Research Center provides the following information:
The tissue collection phase is short and simple. Once an animal has been located and restrained, a tissue sample like an ear clipping can be collected within seconds. Furthermore, somatic cells can be collected from all species. … For cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, camelids and llamas, a unified and identical procedure can be used by obtaining a tissue sample from the ear using notchers which are also used for setting earmarks… Clearly, for all species lymphocytes could be used, but somatic cells from ear clippings will be much easier to obtain and are therefore preferable. 1
Some reports concerning organisms cloned by taking samples from ear tissue include:
– According to a report by Reuters dated 1 May, 2002, a research veterinarian at the University of Sao Paolo in Brazil, Jose Visintin, produced cloned embryos for the first time in the country by using cells taken from the ear of an adult cow.2
– According to a BBC report, South Korean scientists cloned a dog called Snuppy from cells taken from a 3-year-old Afghan hound. Researchers at the Seoul National University extracted genetic material from the cells taken from the ear and placed it into an empty egg cell. An embryo was then obtained by stimulating the cell to divide.3
– Another BBC report said that a new clone had been produced using ear cells from an adult cow in research carried out by Dr. Jean-Paul Renard et al. at the Institute National de la Recherche Agronomique in France.4
– According to information of the official Human Genome Project website, in February 2002, scientists from the Advanced Cell Technologies (ACT) biotechnology company carried out experiments on cloning a cow embryo using the skin cell of the donor cow’s ear.5
– A report by Associated Press, dated 24 January, 2000, announced that Japanese scientists had cloned the clone of a bull for the first time. In the re-cloning, skin tissue samples from the first generation cloned bull’s ear were taken when it was four months old. These cells were then fused with an unfertilized egg from which the nucleus had been removed.
The Seas Not Mingling With One Another
One of the properties of seas that has only recently been discovered is related in a verse of the Qur’an as follows:
He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through. (Qur’an, 55:19-20)
This property of the seas, that is, that they meet and yet do not intermix, has only very recently been discovered by oceanographers. Because of the physical force called “surface tension,” the waters of neighbouring seas do not mix. Caused by the difference in the density of their waters, surface tension prevents them from mingling with one another, just as if a thin wall were between them.60
It is interesting that, during a period when there was little knowledge of physics, and of surface tension, or oceanography, this truth was revealed in the Qur’an.
The Birth Of Human Being
It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator? (Qur’an, 56:57-59)
We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing. (Qur’an, 76:2)
He Who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay; then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded fluid. (Qur’an, 32:7-8)
He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected. (Qur’an, 53:45-46)
Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female? (Qur’an, 75:37-39)
Recite: In the name of your Lord Who created man from alaq. Recite: And your Lord is the Most Generous. (Qur’an, 96:1-3)
[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (Qur’an, 23:14)
… He creates you stage by stage in your mothers’ wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate? (Qur’an, 39:6)
The Identity Of A Finger Print
While it is stated in the Qur’an that it is easy for Allah to bring man back to life after death, peoples’ fingerprints are particularly emphasized:
Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur’an, 75:4)
The emphasis on fingerprints has a very special meaning. This is because shapes and details on everyone’s fingerprint are unique to each individual. Every person who is alive or who has ever lived in this world has a set of unique fingerprints. Furthermore, even identical twins having the very same DNA sequence have their own set of fingerprints.105
Fingerprints attain their final shape before birth and remain the same for a lifetime unless a permanent scar appears. That is why fingerprints are accepted as a very important proof of identity, exclusive to their owner. The science of fingerprints has been used as a non-erring identity determination method.
However, what is important is that this feature of fingerprints was only discovered in the late 19th century. Before then, people regarded fingerprints as ordinary curves without any specific importance or meaning. However in the Qur’an, Allah points to the fingertips, which did not attract anyone’s attention at that time, and calls our attention to their importance. This importance has only been fully understood in our day.
The Stuctural Differences Between The Sun, The Moon & The Stars
We built seven firm layers above you. We installed a blazing lamp. (Qur’an, 78:12-13)
As we know, the only source of light in the Solar System is the Sun. With advances in technology, astronomers discovered that the Moon was not a source of light but that it merely reflects the light reaching it from the Sun. The expression “lamp” in the above verse is a translation of the Arabic word “sirajan,” which most perfectly describes the Sun, the source of light and heat.
In the Qur’an Allah employs different words when referring to such celestial bodies as the Moon, the Sun and the stars. This is how the differences between the structures of the Sun and Moon are expressed in the Qur’an:
Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers, and placed the moon as a light in them and made the sun a blazing lamp? (Qur’an, 71:15-16)
In the above verse, the word “light” is used for the Moon (“nooran” in Arabic) and the word “lamp” for the Sun (“sirajan” in Arabic.) The word used for the Moon refers to a light-reflecting, bright, motionless body. The word used for the Sun refers to a celestial body which is always burning, a constant source of heat and light.
On the other hand, the word “star” comes from the Arabic root “nejeme,” meaning “appearing, emerging, visible.” As in the verse below, stars are also referred to by the word “thaqib,” which is used for that which shines and pierces the darkness with light: self-consuming and burning:
It is the star that pierces through darkness! (Qur’an, 86:3)
We now know that the Moon does not emit its own light but reflects that reaching it from the Sun. We also know that the Sun and stars do emit their own light. These facts were revealed in the Qur’an in an age when mankind simply did not have the means to make scientific discoveries of their own accord. It was an age when peoples’ knowledge of celestial bodies was severely restricted, to say the least. This further emphasises the miraculous nature of the book of Islam.
Do pls read Nostradamus’ prophecies. He was really vague in his sayings. But people can fit what he said to make out as if he accurately predicted the future.
THE FORMATION OF HAIL, THUNDER AND LIGHTNING
… He sends down mountains from the sky with hail inside them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight. (Qur’an, 24:43)
The above verse refers to hail and lightning. When the formation of hail and lightning are examined, it can be seen that an important meteorological truth is being indicated in this verse. About the formation of lightning and hail, the book Meteorology Today says that a cloud becomes electrified as hail falls through a region in the cloud of supercooled droplets and ice crystals. Liquid droplets freeze and release latent heat as they collide with a hailstone. This keeps the surface of the hailstone warmer than that of the surrounding ice crystals. An important phenomenon occurs when the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal: Electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer one. In this way, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. This effect also occurs when supercooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and small pieces of positively charged ice break off. These particles, which are lighter and positively charged, are carried to the upper part of the cloud by currents of air. The hail has a negative charge now, and falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. It may be concluded from this that hail is the main factor in the formation of lightning.57
In the following verse, however, attention is drawn to the link between rain clouds and lightning, and to the order of formation, information that parallels that discovered by science:
Or [their likeness is] that of a storm-cloud in the sky, full of darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps, fearful of death… (Qur’an, 2:19)
Rain clouds are tremendous masses covering 20 to 260 square metres (10 to 100 square miles) and reaching great vertical heights of 9,000 to 12,000 metres (30,000 to 40,000 ft.). Due to these extraordinary dimensions, the lower part of these clouds are dark. It is impossible for the Sun’s rays to pass through them, because of the large quantities of water and ice particles they contain. Very little solar energy therefore reaches the Earth through the clouds, which is why the clouds appear dark to someone looking up at them.58
The stages of the formation of thunder and lightning after that darkness, mentioned in the verse, are as follows: An electrical charge forms inside the rain cloud. This comes about as a result of such processes as freezing, the division of raindrops and charge formation during contact. The accumulation of such electrical charges, when the air between becomes unable to insulate them, leads to a great spark, a discharge between the positive and negative fields. The voltage between two oppositely charged areas can reach 1 billion volts. The spark can also form within the cloud, can cross between two clouds, from a positively charged area to a negative one, or be discharged from the cloud to the ground. These sparks form dazzling lightning strikes. This sudden increase in the electrical charge along the line of lightning causes intense heat (10,000 degrees Centigrade). As a result, there is a sudden expansion of the air, which in turn causes the loud noise associated with thunder.
As has been discussed, dark layers, followed by the electrically charged sparks known as lightning, and then the loud noise called thunder, form within a rain cloud. Everything modern science has established about clouds, and has to say about the causes of thunder and lightning, is in complete accord with the descriptions in the Qur’an.
THE FORMATION OF PETROL
Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur’an, 87:1-5)
As we know, petrol forms from the remains of plants and animals in the sea. Once these have decayed on the sea bed after millions of years, all that is left are oily substances. These, under layers of mud and rock, then turn into petrol and gas. Movements in the Earth’s crust sometimes lead to the sea petrifying and to the rocks containing petrol being buried thousands of metres deep. The petrol that forms sometimes leaks through the pores in the rock layers from several kilometres down, and rises to the surface, where it vaporises (turns into gas), leaving a mass of bitumen behind.
The three elements identified in the first four verses of Surat al-A’la parallel the formation of petroleum. It is quite likely that the term “almaraa,” meaning pasture or meadow, refers to the organically-based substances in the formation of petroleum. The second word of note in the verse is “ahwa,” used to describe blackish-green, greenish-black, dark or sooty colours. This word can be thought of as describing the waste plant matter accumulated underground gradually turning black, since these words are supported by a third word, “ghuthaan.” The word “ghuthaan” translated as stubble, can also mean flood-water plants, plants brought together by waste matter being collected and dispersed around valleys, rubbish, leaves or foam. In addition to the connotation of “vomiting out” implied in the word, it may also be translated as “to flood forth vomited matter,” and describes the way that the earth “vomits” forth petroleum. In fact, in the light of the formation of petroleum, the way it emerges, its foam-like appearance and its colour, one can better see with what wisdom were employed the words in the verses.
As has been discussed, the plant in the verse turning into a dark and viscous liquid bears a strong resemblance to the formation of petroleum. The description of such a formation over many years, at a time when the formation of petroleum was unknown, is without doubt another proof that the Qur’an is the revelation of Allah.
RAINS WHICH BRING A DEAD LAND BACK TO LIFE
The rain’s function of “bringing a dead land back to life” is indicated in several verses of the Qur’an:
… We send down from heaven pure water so that by it We can bring a dead land to life and give drink to many of the animals and people We created. (Qur’an, 25:48-49)
As well as bringing water, an essential requirement for living things, to the earth, the rain also has a fertilising property. Drops of rain which evaporate from the sea and reach the clouds contain certain substances which “revitalise” dead soil. These raindrops with such “revitalising” properties are called “surface tension droplets.” These form from the top layer of the surface of the sea, called the micro-layer by biologists; in this surface layer, less than one-tenth of a millimetre thick, are found large quantities of organic waste formed from the decomposition of microscopic algae and zooplanktons. Some of these wastes collect and absorb elements such as phosphorus, magnesium and potassium, which are rarely found in sea water, as well as heavy metals such as copper, zinc, cobalt and lead. Seeds and plants on the surface of the earth receive large quantities of the mineral salts and elements they need to grow from these raindrops. The Qur’an refers to this in these terms:
And We sent down blessed water from the sky and made gardens grow by it and grain for harvesting. (Qur’an, 50:9)
These salts which descend with the rain are examples in miniature of fertilisers traditionally used to enhance productivity (calcium, magnesium, potassium etc.). Heavy metals of the kind found in aerosols create elements which increase productivity during growth and production of plants. In short, rain is an important fertiliser. With the fertiliser which provided by rain alone, within a hundred years, a soil of poor quality can obtain all the elements necessary for plants. Forests also grow and are nourished with help from these chemicals which originate from the sea.
In this way, every year some 150 million tons of particles of fertiliser fall to earth. Were it not for this fertilising function, there would have been far fewer plants on the Earth and the balance of life would have been disturbed. The information about the revitalisation of plants in the verse is just one of the countless miraculous properties of the Qur’an.
THE MENSTRUAL PERIOD
The menstrual period is when the unfertilised egg is expelled from the body. Since fertilisation has not taken place, the walls of the previously readied womb contract and the egg is expelled with the breaking of tiny blood vessels. Following that, the body will then begin preparations to repeat the whole process all over again.
All of these stages are repeated in all women over a specific period. Every month, new egg cells form, the same hormones are secreted-again and again at the same times. Thus the female body is prepared as if it will be fertilised. However, in the final stage, the absence or presence of the sperm changes the nature of the preparations in the body.
During the period in question, the changes in the empty space in the womb can only be identified by an anatomical or gynaecological examination. Yet these changes, only recently identified by scientists, are miraculously indicated in Surat ar-Ra’d:
Allah knows what every female bears and every shrinking of the womb and every swelling. Everything has its measure with Him. (Qur’an, 13:8)
At the beginning of the menstrual period, the mucous on the walls of the womb (the endometrium layer) is 0.5 mm thick. Under the effect of hormones secreted by the egg, this layer grows and reaches a thickness of 5-6 mm. This layer is then discarded in the absence of fertilisation. As we see from the above verse, this monthly increase and reduction in the walls of the womb is indicated in the Qur’an.
THE FEMALE HONEY BEE
Your Lord revealed to the bees: “Build dwellings in the mountains and the trees, and also in the structures which men erect. Then eat from every kind of fruit and travel the paths of your Lord, which have been made easy for you to follow.” From inside them comes a drink of varying colours, containing healing for mankind. There is certainly a Sign in that for people who reflect. (Qur’an, 16:68-69)
In the honey bee colonies where each of the many bees is assigned a specific task, the only exception is the male honey bee. The males do not contribute to the defence of the hive or its cleaning, to gathering food, or making of the honeycomb and honey. The only function of the male bees in the hive is to inseminate the queen bee.106 Apart from reproductive organs, the males possess almost none of the features possessed by the other bees and it is therefore impossible for them to do anything but fertilise the queen.
The worker bees carry the entire load of the colony. Although they are females like the queen, their ovaries have no maturity. This renders them sterile. They have several duties: cleaning the hive, maintaining the larvae and the young, feeding the queen bee and the males, producing honey, constructing the honeycomb and repairing it, ventilating the hive and safeguarding it, gathering supplies like nectar, pollen, water and resin, and storing these in the hive.
In Arabic, there are two different usages of verbs. By means of the usage, it is possible to determine whether the subject is a female or a male. As a matter of fact, the verbs (italic words) used for the honey bee in the verses are used in the format of the verb for females. Through this, the Qur’an indicates that the honey bees that work in the making of the honey are females.107
We should not forget that it is impossible for this fact to have been known about the honey bees in the time of the Prophet Muhammad (saas). Yet, Allah has pointed at this fact and shown us yet another miracle of the Qur’an.
PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH
He has only forbidden you carrion, blood and pork and what has been consecrated to other than Allah. But anyone who is forced to eat it-without desiring it or going to excess in it-commits no crime. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur’an, 2:173)
Eating pork is harmful to health in a great many regards. This harm still persists today, despite all the precautions that are taken. First and foremost, no matter how clean the farms and environments on which it is raised may be, the pig is not by nature a clean-living animal. It often plays in, and even eats, its own excrement. Due to this and its biological structure, the pig produces much higher levels of antibodies in its body than other animals. In addition, far higher levels of growth hormone are produced in the pig compared to those in other animals and human beings. Naturally, these high levels of antibodies and growth hormone pass across to and collect in the pig’s muscle tissue. Pork meat also contains high levels of cholesterol and lipids. It has been scientifically proven that these significant amounts of antibodies, hormones, cholesterol and lipids in pork represent a serious threat to human health.
The existence of above-average numbers of obese individuals in the populations of countries such as the USA and Germany, in which large quantities of pork are consumed, is now well-known. When exposed to excessive quantities of growth hormone as a result of a pork-based diet, the human body first puts on excessive weight and then suffers physical deformations.
Another harmful substance in pork is the “trichina” worm. This is frequently found in pork and when it enters the human body, it settles directly in the muscles of the heart and represents a possibly fatal threat. Even though it is now technically possible to identify pigs that are infected with trichina, no such methods were known in earlier centuries. That means that everyone who ate pork risked infection by trichina and possible death.
All these reasons are just a part of the wisdom in our Lord’s prohibition on the consumption of pork. Moreover, this commandment of our Lord’s provides complete protection from the harmful effects of pork under any conditions.
Until the 20th century, it was impossible to be aware of the danger posed to human health by pork. The fact that the Qur’an, revealed fourteen centuries ago, warns against this harm which has been incontrovertibly revealed with modern medical equipment and biological tests, is one of the miracles demonstrating that the Qur’an is the revelation of Allah, the Omniscient. Despite all the precautionary measures and inspections that take place in modern-day pig rearing, the fact that pork is physiologically incompatible with the human body and is a variety of meat harmful to human health has not altered.
Nostradamus’s predictions were revealing too. He was not divine.
The link, http://www.sciencechannel.com/strange-science/10-nostradamus-predictions.htm
re: “they will cut off cattle’s ears. I will command them and they will change Allah’s creation.”
It’s a big jump from “cattle’s ears” and “change Allah’s creation” (vague wording), and the verse doesn’t further explain the huge gap between cattle’s ears [what comes next] and cells/tissue/DNA.
In any case, the test of the pudding is in the eating: Cloning was not invented by either Muslim or Arab scientists.
When Allah desires to guide someone, He expands his breast to Islam. When He desires to misguide someone, He makes his breast narrow and constricted as if he were climbing up into the sky. That is how Allah defiles those who have no faith. (Qur’an, 6:125)
Human beings need oxygen and air pressure in order to live. Breathing is made possible by the oxygen in the atmosphere reaching the air sacs in our lungs. As elevation rises, however, atmospheric pressure goes down as the atmosphere becomes thinner. Therefore, the amount of oxygen entering the blood stream declines and it becomes harder to breathe. As the air sacs grow narrow and contract, we feel as if we cannot breathe.
If the amount of oxygen in the blood is less than the body needs, several symptoms emerge: extreme fatigue, headaches, dizziness, nausea, and loss of judgement. When a certain height is reached, it finally becomes impossible for a human being to breathe at all.173 This is why we need oxygen bottles and special clothing in order to survive at such elevations.
Someone at 5,000-7,500 metres (16,500-24,500 feet) above sea-level may faint and go into a coma because of breathing difficulties. That explains the presence of oxygen equipment in airplanes. There are also special systems that regulate air pressure when planes fly at 9,000-10,000 metres (29,500-33,000 feet) above sea-level.
Anoxia occurs when oxygen fails to reach the tissues. This oxygen deficiency occurs at heights of 3,000-4,500 metres (10,000-15,000 feet). Some people even lose consciousness at such elevations, but can be saved by immediate oxygen treatment.
Typo:
It’s a big jump from “cattle’s ears” — to — “change Allah’s creation”
Helen, we don’t do the Pedang ways of reading a text from the Quran. Its not Harry Potter hocus pocus to begin with, nor it is a books of dreams ala Nostradamus (the Nostradamus made famous by pop culture). You would need a teacher to do so. And so do I.
But I really hope that you get to read and research the feeds I’ve fed you with, although mere mortals like me can only do so little!
I’m taking up this thread of discussion “you would need a teacher to [interpret the Bible] in my next posting. It’ll be uploaded within the hour. Stay tuned.
Helen, Christianity had been attacked again and again over the years it has come into existence by the very people known as Christians themselves.
The dogma started when a bunch of groupings decided to dismantled and defaced the religion from its original teaching of One God, the group had then decided that opposing views, books or men, gets to be burned to protect the new religion.
Then another massive attack on Christianity (I’d say on religion as a whole) by irresponsible bunch of misfits who regards themselves as intellectuals and paraded their ungodly lifestyles as a mark of their intellectuality. It seems then (it still is), the more irresponsible you are, the more you are being blase about God and His existence, the more of an intellect you are and more people will take you seriously.
America still can’t decide whether there is God or not, but yet we take them seriously and regards of them highly. We want to be like them, we love their young Jesuit boys and bring them home.
The same had been tried on Islam, Muslims and their nations, sometimes by morally corrupt Muslims themselves. But they can keep trying as Allah SWT is on our side.
re: “the group had then decided that opposing views, books or men, gets to be burned to protect the new religion”
Sounds like their descendents are residing in Jerusubang.
LOL. Tak terfikir pulak masa tulis tadi. Betul juga ek! Truly Allah SWT is the best planner of all! Subhanallah.
Re: Let’s make it clear that the implementation of hudud is carried out by men who make the decisions and not by Allah Himself. For all we know, among the enforcement officers would be like this guy –’Fatwa’ against Mickey Mouse.
…obviously u dont fully understand what hudud is all about, please feel free to consult muslim scholars to understand better.
As to why 200 milion chinese accept kristianity, I am very sure u already knew the answer.
Honestly, if u are the the Ming dynasty emperor, what would u do,accept Islam or not?
Here is an oppertunity to understand hudud better,everybody are welcomed.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=773579542653660&id=100000048648008&set=a.220587611286192.66461.100000048648008&source=46&refid=17
More reading and references here
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html