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Who makes more sense – Marina Mahathir or Ibrahim Ali?

It is Putrajaya that lives in fear, said Marina Mahathir in her ‘Hard Talk on Human Rights’ at a conference in KL yesterday.

“Fear of chaos is only up there in the government. The rest of us are not scared,” she added.

NajibGigitJariMarina said this in response to the question whether the Sedition Act 1948 must be repealed. The Malaysian Insider reported Marina as saying that Putrajaya was wrong in using the law on the pretext of preventing chaos.

“Young people are not scared and the law will not deter them,” said Marina. “Are they [the authorities] talking about a pre-emptive strike, and did it work?” – TMI quoted Marina as saying.

She was speaking in a plenary session titled ‘Freedom from Fear – Is it a Basic Human Right?’

Marina was a co-panellist together with Paul Low (a staunch Christian) who is Minister in the PM’s Dept, Gan Peng Sieu the former MCA vice president, Tommy Thomas, a well-known lawyer, and Jahabar Sadiq who is CEO of the notorious and noxious, spindoctoring portal TMI.

Their session at the International Malaysia Law Conference was moderated by ‘Negara Ku’ founder Ambiga Sreenevasan.

BELOW: The Metro Tabernacle Church in Desa Melawati, KL was torched in January 2010

Metro Church burning 8 Jan 2010

Citing an episode which could have been manufactured to create fear, Marina pointed to the spate of church arson and firebombings following the High Court decision on the ‘Allah’ case brought by the Titular Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur.

“Some people wanted to burn churches, but Malaysians did not buckle,” she highlighted.

According to the TMI article, Marina mentioned Perkasa as enjoying special treatment.

She was also quoted by The Malay Mail as saying, “Utusan has complete freedom to stir up fear in everyone, whereas the rest of us are trying to reassure everyone”.

BELOW: Marina giving flowers to pastor in church

MarinaFlower

ISA needed to shield Chinese, Indians from Malay fury, Ibrahim Ali says

On the other side of the political fence, Perkasa president Ibrahim Ali said his organization would “defend to the death” the Sedition Act. The Malay right wing holds that the Sedition Act remains the only law available to preserve our peace and safeguard public order following the repeal of the ISA.

Umno divisions throughout the peninsula almost unanimously want the Act to be retained.

The Malay Mail reported that Perkasa was also demanding for the ISA to be reinstated.

ISA needed to shield Chinese Ibrahim Ali says

“It is actually more to protect the Chinese and Indians”, Ibrahim said of the security legislation which has been abolished by our “lembik” (the Tun’s word) and “liberal” (Ibrahim Ali’s word) Prime Minister in his bid to woo the so-called ‘moderate’ electorate.

angry mob“It’s not like he even got the votes,” noted Ibrahim with regard to what he called Najib Razak’s “politically-driven decision” on the ISA, which was among the PM’s various initiatives under his administration’s Transformation drive.

Ibrahim Ali told an ISA forum on Sept 20 that Putrajaya must restore the ISA to shield the Chinese and Indians from Malay anger.

He added that without the ISA, the non-Malays are making free to insult the Malays. This is making the Malays very angry and their tolerance is already close to snapping.

(525 words)

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Merujuk kepada Saari Sungib, Adun Hulu Kelang dan Hasnul Baharuddin, Adun Morib

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37 thoughts on “Who makes more sense – Marina Mahathir or Ibrahim Ali?

  1. marina had mentioned before that ambiga is her idol, so its not surprising that ambiga’s thoughts come from marina’s mouth.

    these minority yet
    very loud and
    ‘glam’ group are working extremely hard in
    causing chaos and disunity
    among us.they
    infuriate the
    malays with
    liberalism and
    secularism then
    claim the malay
    muslims as
    intolerant and
    extreme.they
    should move to
    the west to
    embrace the
    liberal western
    culture instead of
    corrupting our
    malaysian
    culture.marina is
    totally against dr
    m’s way of
    thinking.what a
    great pity!

  2. ‘Freedom from Fear – Is it a Basic Human Right?’

    Certainly, every Malaysian should be free of the fear of being killed or having their real estate razed to the ground.

    On the other hand, it is not a basic human right to be at liberty to provoke others concerning their most sacred spiritual beliefs nor should one be unafraid of the authorities when charging ahead in nudity games at public venues.

  3. Frank and Prank. The misconceptions.

    Ibrahim Ali fights and stand for Perlembagaan Persekutuan – Malay Rights ( its not human right by the secular definition ) Nothing more.

    Marina in the Malays’ definition, she is neither a malay nor a true muslim believer (sorry to say that). She fails to understand the fundamentals of Islam

    Afterall, it all depends on us. History helps us to build a nation. There will be ‘adat and adab’ to follow.

    1. Ibrahim Ali is and was an opportunist. He grabbed the role belonging to UMNO youth chief, who forgot he represents UMNO. [deleted]

  4. “………Fear of chaos is only up there in the government. The rest of us are not scared,” she added…….

    Marina sebagai orang yang tidak ada tanggungjawab untuk menjaga keamanan Negara bolehlah cakap sesedap ikut mulut ‘longkang’ dia.

    Memang dia tidak takut, kalau terjadi sesuatu yang buruk kerana dia dan geng gengnya banyak duit, boleh terbang keluar Negara untuk menyelamatkan punggongnya!

    Bagaimana dengan nasib rakyat yang tidak seberuntung dia dan geng gengnya!.

    Marina lupa kekacauan Negara di zaman Dharurat, Targedy 13 Mei 1969 dan kemungkinan berlakunya Tragedy 13 Mei versi 2 semasa Operasi Lalang dilaksanakan!

    ‘……….Young people are not scared and the law will not deter them,” said Marina……’

    Oh yeh, bagaimana dengan nasib Adli Adam yang telah dihukum penjara setahun! Bagaimana nasibnya pada masa hadapan?

    Mungkinkah dia akan terus menjadi ‘gelandangan politik’ seperti Hishamuddin Rais. Hanya wujud untuk dipergunakan oleh mereka yang anti kerajaan, anti sosial dan entah apa apa anti lagi!.

    Mereka tidak sedar hidup mereka berkeceluraan tanpa tujuan bermanfaat yang pasti.

    Malangnya golongan ini bangga dengan apa yang mereka lakukan!

    “Are they [the authorities] talking about a pre-emptive strike, and did it work?”

    Marina lupa Operasi Lalang di zaman bapanya TDM. Kalau TDM tidak menggunakan ISA, ‘pre-emptive strike’ Tragedy 13 Mei versi 2 mungkin akan terjadi. Mungkin kesannya lebih buruk dari Tragedy Mei 1969.

    Kenapa Marina tidak berfikir secara intelektual mengapa kejadian kejadian buruk seperti yang terjadi di sesetengah negara Afrika sebagai contoh, tidak terjadi di Malaysia?

    Antaranya jawapannya Marina kerana rakyat tidak ada alasan kukuh untuk bangun menentang kerajaan. Perut mereka kenyang, peluang pendidikan setinggi mana terbuka luas, pekerjaan masih banyak sehingga diambil peluang oleh warga asing.

    Negara pula dalam aman damai. Cuma golongan PENGACAU dan PENGHASUT seperti [deleted] dan geng geng yang cuba menghuru hara kan keamanan Negara!

    Dan undang undang penceghan seperti Akta Hasutan yang Marina perjuangkan untuk dibatalkan masih ada untuk menjadi banteng keamanan

    Tak kan lah Marina sebagai orang yang cerdik pandai tidak mengetahui undang undang pencegahan seperti ISA masih digunaka pakai oleh Negara Negara seperti Singapura dan USA!

    Inilah kalau OTAK diletakkan di KEPALA LUTUT!

    1. Umpama barang terpakai yang cuba dipromosi semula di pasar ‘karat’.

      Tidak sesuai untuk dipamirkan, disimpan di bawah, kot-kot ada yang berkenan, kalau bijak sangat kenapa tidak laku untuk diketengahkan untuk kepentingan negara?

      Digunakan kerana sandaran kapada nama bapa, tidak lebih dari itu.

  5. Both are extremist in their own way. Neither would compromise. But they were just useful idiots…. worst are those who provide the avenue for them.

  6. Unfortunately people like Marina that being appointed to NUCC..

    I read Utusan everyday. Utusan reflects Malay interest.. does she want Utusan to fight for gays and lesbianism or some stupid liberal agendas?

    What about all the pembangkang media portals? They got 1000 times more freedom than Utusan. She should have live in South America or migrate out to Tasmania. She herself look like a Latino mama.

  7. The underlying issue of Sedition Act is not very much on the provisions per se (whether they are fair or otherwise). Looking at the recent sedition dragnet, the real issue is selective persecution by the government. Seditious statements made by ‘pro-government’ quarters were left off the hook. At most, there were investigations but no prosecution at court.

    Ibrahim Ali said ‘“defend to the death” the Sedition Act. He totally missed the point. He should go one step further. Not only defend the Act, but also to demand for fair enforcement of the Act. We know that he will refuse do so. An equitable application of the Act will cause him to be investigated and prosecuted.

    1. re: “Seditious statements made by ‘pro-government’ quarters were left off the hook.”

      You forget that Isma president Abdullah Zaik Abdul Rahman has been charged.

      1. Only one?

        How many were charged during the recent sedition dragnet? How many is ‘pro-government’ and how many is ‘anti-government’?

        Are you saying that the Sedition Act has been fairly applied?

        1. Let’s take the case of Adam Adli, who has been convicted. He was charged for making the following challenge on 13 May 2013:

          “Ambil butiran saya, buat laporan polis, kerana hari ini, saya nak ajak semua yang ada di sini, kita harus susun dan kita akan turun ke jalan raya untuk rampas kembali kuasa kita! Boleh atau tidak?! Boleh atau tidak?! Boleh atau tidak?! Kita tak banyak masa lagi, semua siap sedia, beli kasut, beli tracksuit, beli seluar jeans, sedia kita akan turun ke jalan raya sebab akhirnya dalam dunia ketiga macam negara Malaysia, pilihan raya takkan tumbangkan kerajaan kita.

          “Yang boleh tumbangkan kerajaan hanyalah kuasa rakyat. Sedara, ingat, ini sahaja peluang yang kita ada …”

          Essentially he called for:

          (1) turun ke jalanraya untuk rampas kuasa
          (2) pilihan raya takkan tumbangkan kerajaan
          (3) rakyat untuk tumbangkan kerajaan

          Now can you name me some pro-establishment figures who have made such challenges to public order?

          1. ‘Challenges to public order’ is one of the definition of ‘seditious tendency’ under the Sedition Act.

            Good job to the government for charging Adam Adli as per the provisions of the Act.

            ‘Promote feelings of ill will and hostility between different races’ is another definition of ‘seditious tendency’.

            Lots of pro-establlishment figures have made statements that would have fit into one of the many limbs of ‘seditious tendency’. I need not name them. I trust you know whom I meant. Yet no prosecution against these people.

            Look at the application of the Act in a broad manner. Don’t limit yourself to the limb of ‘Challenges to public order’.

            1. bq. “Lots of pro-establlishment figures have made statements that would have fit into one of the many limbs of ‘seditious tendency’. I need not name them. I trust you know whom I meant. Yet no prosecution against these people.”

              And many many more pro-oppositions will end up in jail yet they are not. Still making many ‘seditious remarks’ more often than not.

              1. re: And many many more pro-oppositions will end up in jail yet they are not. Still making many ‘seditious remarks’ more often than not.

                Really? Enlighten me on such incident where allegedly seditious statement were made but no action.

                  1. tebing tinggi,

                    Lu masih tak faham gua punya point. Ini bukan soal siapa kacau siapa.

                    Isu di sini ialah mengapa pihak berkuasa hanya menggunakan Akta Hasutan terhadap golongan tertentu? Sehingga hari ini, hanya satu orang yang pro kerajaan iaitu presiden Isma yang didakwa. Manakala, dalam tempoh yang singkat belasan orang yang anti kerajaan didakwa. Banyak orang yang pro kerajaan mengeluarkan kenyataan berbaur hasutan tetapi tidak dikenakan tindakan undang-undang.

                    1. Maze dan yang setara,

                      Ini cakap orang pro kerajaan atau pro pembangkang mengeluarkan kenyataan hasutan tanpa diambil tindakan, diperkatakan secara ‘sweeping statement’

                      Berilah contoh beb! Jadi kita pembaca boleh menilai samada, ada unsur hasutan atau tidak!

                      Tengok Helen bila dia meperkatakan tentang Adam Adli yang dikenakan hukuman setahun penjara, dia siap paparkan sekali kenyatan kenyataan kenyataan yang telah dibuat oleh Si Adam Adli ni!

                1. ‘Really? Enlighten me on such incident where allegedly seditious statement were made but no action.’

                  Will you do the same for the so called pro government figures alleged seditious remarks?

                  1. islam1st,

                    I will refrain from saying names. I trust you know these people that made the following statements:-

                    1. balik cina/india;
                    2. bakar alkitab;
                    3. Melayu malas/mat-rempit;
                    4. cina/india pendatang;
                    5. hina agama hindu;

                    Reports were lodged against the maker of such statements. NFA. No further action.

                2. What’s the motive when one, days and nights, tries to instil ‘3rd/4th class citizen treatment’ into the mind of a certain race? On this point(a classic example) alone, maybe half of the DAP top leaders could be charged with sedition.

                  1. pure,

                    You may be right. Such propaganda may amount to sedition. Why no action by the authorities?

                    Who control the authorities? BN or PR?

                    1. Neither one controls the authorities. They act based on reports, or when there is a lead that the national security is on stake. Just call me naive or whatever.

                      And this is what I think (which has no merit whatsoever…just ignore if you want). To act or not to act. That’s the dilemma faced everyday by the authorities. The things with top leaders, they could cause a ripple which of course could result to more damage. Unless absolutely necessary, they often left untouched until a certain time. The investigation phase may be dragged to cool down the heat.

  8. Bila dap kata pas pengkhianat…itu adalah isyarat kpd pengundi bkn melayu di pengkalan kubor utk mengundi calon bn. Too sad.

    Tapi ini bkn isolated incidents… being following this fenomena hampir setiap prk adun atau mp dimana umno lwn pas… bila dianalisa balik….. peratusan undi cina akan pergi kpd umno somehow.

  9. To Marina M,

    Cakap banyak tak mau lah, kalau you berani sila bertanding dalam PRU nanti. Pilih lah parti [DAP] yang kamu sanjung tu. Kita tengok nanti kalau you boleh menang atau terlingkup.

  10. Marina M is a paddler of fear. Why else would she be talking about this Fear stuff from time to time ? She is without intellect. The only reason why she is well known is because she is the daughter of a former PM. Nothing else.

    Ibrahim Ali is a total failure. Where is he now ? After a fiery start, he’s now gone under the radar. Just goes to show that he too is an empty bucket.

  11. Ibrahim Ali is talking nonsense regarding ISA. The Security Offences Act SOSMA which has the royal assent to replace the ISA is a better worded legislation that can cover more situations, not just communist insurgency. He’s deliberately lying in this case.

    Marina is an activist, not a politician. She has her opinions, some of which one may agree and others I may not. On the whole, she’s very idealistic, and maybe even naive in some instances but what she says bears less weight because it depends only on her personal gravitas; unlike IA as head of Perkasa who bears greater responsibility when commenting on laws.

    1. ISA vs Sosma: The ISA scared people. It was like a hovering dark shadow. Sosma does not instill that same kind of dread.

      Ditto Sedition Act vs Harmony Act. The latter sounds lembik and does not exude the fear factor.

      I believe in this instance Marina is quite correct. They (the oppo and their supporters) are no longer able to be frightened by the law.

      I further believe that she is also correct to say that it is Putrajaya that seems afraid.

      1. ‘They (the oppo and their supporters) are no longer able to be frightened by the law.’

        Paul Low had summed it best when he says ‘Some are insecure while others are aggressive. How do you maintain harmony?’

        Sedition Act is there to protect the meek n mild against the aggressive evangelistas [deleted].

        ‘Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Paul Low Seng Kuan, who was in the panel, said the law was there to preserve peace and harmony in a multi-racial society.’

        http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/only-utusan-has-total-freedom-says-marina-mahathir

        Thank you Paul Low for being able to understand it better than the PM!

        1. re: “Thank you Paul Low for being able to understand it better than the PM!”

          Hahaha.

          YAB Perdana Menteri lah yang lantik Marina serta galak membentuk NUCC. Sebenarnya takde sebab musabab pun perlunya ditubuhkan majlis tu.

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