“Only 9 percent” but Christian is now Jakarta governor

November 20, 2014 at 4:54 pm 84 comments

A Chinese Christian was sworn in yesterday as Jakarta governor – one of Indonesia’s most powerful political jobs.

ahokIslamic hardliners are nonetheless protesting Basuki Tjahaja Purnama (pix right), better known as “Ahok”, taking the helm – read Reuters report in Christian Today.

Indonesia, which is home to an 8.8 percent Christian minority, has 21.2 million Christians in its population.

The Philippines, which is home to a 93.1 percent Christian majority, has 86.8 million Christians in its population.

Now imagine if Indonesia’s Christian population doubled to 17.6 percent in a decade’s time.

SaveMaryam

Christians, though a minority in Indonesia, are still a lot of people

In the year 2025, the population of Indonesia is projected to reach 282,011, 000. If Christians were 17.6 percent, they would number 49.6 million.

In the year 2025, the population of the Philippines is projected to reach 119,219,000. If Christians were still maintaining at 93.1 percent, they would number 111.0 million.

Let’s round up the projected number of Christians in Indonesia to 50 million. That’s almost half the projected number of Christians in the Philippines at 111 million.

At only a percentage of 17.6% in Indonesia, the Indonesian Christians would – in absolute numbers – match up to almost half the total of traditional Filipino Christians who make up 93.1% of the Philippine population.

A parallel for comparison would be India vis-a-vis Saudi Arabia.

Muslims make up 14.6 percent of the people in India but because India has such a huge population, Indian Muslims alone number 177.3 million in a Hindu country.

Muslims make up 97.1 percent of the people in Saudi Arabia but because Saudi Arabia has a small population, Saudi Muslims only number 25.5 million despite the Islam pekat nature of that country.

Indonesia, one of the world’s most populous countries, has the potential to see a Christian boom.

BELOW: Christianity is moving from Europe to the Asia Pacific

christianity-graphic-China

Christianity big in the Far East

In 1910, about two-thirds [67%] of the world’s Christians lived in Europe, where the bulk of Christians had been for a millennium, according to historical estimates by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity.

Today, only about a quarter [26%] of all Christians live in Europe, according to the Pew Forum.

You can see from the demographic map above that South Korea is today very Christian while the Christian populations in China and Indonesia are burgeoning.

Christianity is a religion spread by the white man. So how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian? After all, Christianity is not indigenous to this region.

Parts of South East Asia have been Buddhist and then Muslim, e.g. the magnificent Borobudur Buddhist temple is in Yogyakarta, Indonesia. Other parts of South East Asia have been Muslim/animist and then become Christian, for example the Philippines and Borneo-Sabah-Sarawak.

BELOW: Shinto in Japan

Japan

Evangelistas are colonizing the mind

Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam have Buddhist populations larger than that belonging to the other faiths.

The difference is that the materialistic “ultra kiasu” Chinese in Singapore have embraced evangelical Christianity with a vengeance. Christians are now 18.3 percent in Singapore while Buddhist numbers fell by a whopping 9.2 percent in just over the last decade – read HERE.

Buddhists in other South East Asian countries such as Cambodia and Laos who are not as materialistic as the kiasu Chinese have not been successfully “City Harvested” by the Christian evangelists to the extent that the Singaporeans and Jerusubangites have been.

The staunchly Buddhist country of Thailand (where Buddhism is the state religion) is the one which is least at risk from Christian proselytization. The Christians are less than one percent of the Thai population.

If Japan had not taken the bold and decisive step to totally ban Christianity in the late 1500s and early 1600s – read my posting earlier this morning – she would have suffered the same fate as the Philippines.

moderatechunwai100814

Saint Xavier in Penang

Saint Francis Xavier evangelized in India and today the Christians make up 27 percent of the population in Goa.

In 1545, St Xavier was evangelizing in Malacca. The school in Penang, St Xavier’s Institution (SXI), is named after him. J-Star CEO Wong Chun Wai is an old boy of SXI.

St Xavier then went to Kepulauan Maluku in Indonesia. Ambon is the capital of wilayah Maluku. In recent times, Ambon has been the hotbed of violent Christian-Muslim clashes.

In 1549, St Xavier landed in Japan. He made his way to “the centre of Japan, and during 1551 preached in some important cities, forming the nucleus of several Christian communities, which in time increased with extraordinary rapidity“, see the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia.

Read also, ‘Tokugawa shogunate completely banned Christianity in Japan

He later ventured into China too but luckily and most fortunately for the Chinese, he died in 1552 before he could get much conversions done there.

BELOW: City Harvest Church in Singapore

CityHarvestChurchSuntec1

Asakan bertubi-tubi puak Yahudi Yeoh

In the year 2010, a total of 21 percent (20.9%) of the population in South East Asia were Christian.

By the year 2020, a quarter of the population in South East Asia are expected to be Christian.

How did this trend develop and what path is it taking?

The South East Asian country which is staunchly Christian is former Spanish colony, the Philippines. The only other Christian majority country in South East Asia is the very small, recently independent Timor Leste – a former Portuguese colony.

However, the country most at risk from pendakwah Kristian evangelis is Indonesia where the religious landscape is fast evolving.

British colonialists who ruled Tanah Melayu had the good sense to leave the Malays and their religion of Islam well alone. The Yahudi Yeohs who harbour neo-colonialist ambitions in Malaysia do not share the British sensibility.

Hannah Tudung Repot Polis

South East Asia Christian populations (year 2010)

Source: Pew Forum report

BRUNEI

Christians – 40,000
Percentage – 10.0%
Total population – 400,000

BURMA

Christians – 3,790,000
Percentage – 7.9%
Total population – 47,960,000

CAMBODIA

Christians – 50,000
Percentage – 3.5%
Total population- 14,140,000

INDONESIA

Christians – 21,160,000
Percentage – 8.8%
Total population – 239,870,000

LAOS

Christians – 90,000
Percentage – 1.45%
Total population – 6,200,000

MALAYSIA

Christians – 2,590,000
Percentage – 9.1%
Total population – 28,400,000

THE PHILIPPINES

Christians – 86,790,000
Percentage – 93.1%
Total population – 93,260,000

SINGAPORE

Christians – 920,000
Percentage – 18.1%
Total population – 5,090,000

THAILAND

Christians – 550,000
Percentage – 0.8%
Total population – 69,120,000

TIMOR-LESTE

Christians – 1,120,000
Percentage – 100%
Total population – 1,120,000

VIETNAM

Christians – 7,030,000
Percentage – 8.0%
Total population – 87,850,000

Total Christian population in South East Asia is 40,000 + 3,790,000 + 50,000 + 21,160,000 + 90,000 + 2,590,000 + 86,790,000 + 920,000 + 550,000 + 1,120,000 + 7,030,000 = 124,130,000 (124 million).

Total population in South East Asia is 400,000 + 47,960,000 + 14,140,000 + 239,870,000 + 6,200,000 + 28,400,000 + 93,260,000 + 5,090,000 + 69,120,000 + 1,120,000 + 87,850,000 = 593,410,000 (593 million).

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Tokugawa shogunate completely banned Christianity in Japan “Just an idiot” … guess who?

84 Comments Add your own

  • 1. godson  |  November 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    The simple conclusion is this. If God decides it happens. If God wills that the Jakarta governor is going to be Chinese, going to be Christian, well nothing can be done to fight the will of God. You can rant and spew till your breath turns blue, god’s will prevails.

    By the way, yes some miscreants from FPI protested, but the majority of Muslims are supportive and have no hang up with a Chinese-Christian governor. In fact, so far the Muslim governors have been an utter failure in Jakarta. By the way, the Mayor of the Christian majority area in Manado is a Muslim. There, the Christians chose a Muslim over a Christian. So, people in Jakarta are prepared to give a Chinese-Christian a chance.

    If he can solve the Jakarta traffic problem, bring an honest administration there is a strong likelihood he will be courted to run for presidency.

    Reply
    • 2. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 5:34 pm

      re: “there is a strong likelihood he will be courted to run for presidency”

      You’re giving Ibrahim Ali nightmares.

      Reply
      • 3. msleepyhead  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:20 pm

        This is called kembali ke pangkal jalan. Christianity predates Islam after all.

        Indeed, the Almighty God is giving Ibrahim Ali nightmares.

        Reply
        • 4. jentayu  |  November 21, 2014 at 11:23 am

          dekat komen bawah cakap “It’s always funny how one religion tries to call out the the other.” Nampak mcm komen orang atheis yang kondem dua2 agama. tapi kat sini glorify kristian plak.

          are you having identity disorder dear ms sleepyhead? or just lack of sleep that cause you a state of subconscious or in malay we call this mamai? better get treatment from your local doctor before it gets too late. takut dapat penyakit nyanyuk walaupun umur muda lagi.

          Reply
    • 5. Abdullah  |  November 21, 2014 at 1:28 am

      “Man plans but God dispenses”.
      Still one must plan one’s life wisely and sensibly, sincerely and humbly, and then entrust out future to Allah s.w.t.

      Why am I to blame If God already knows what I’m going to do? [YouTube]

      Reply
    • 6. godless-son  |  November 21, 2014 at 10:45 am

      godson: ‘ If God wills..’ You speak on god’s behalf? That’s voodoo; no different from from a snake oil salesman peddler a cure-all. You even claim to the son of god? That’s a big claim – and a lie. It is a joke, no?

      godson: ‘the majority of Muslims are supportive and have no hang up with a Chinese-Christian governor’. Prove it, that he was elected because he was Christian and not for other reasons.

      godson: ‘the Muslim governors have been an utter failure in Jakarta. …people in Jakarta are prepared to give a Chinese-Christian a chance.’ You mean they failed because they are Muslims? And this latest governor will succeed because he is Christian or Chinese? Or both? Or because it won’t be due to his cleverness, but because God wills it?

      godson, see what Christianity and Jesus are doing to your brains? You got to stop going to church.

      Reply
  • 7. melayuraya  |  November 20, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    The discussion is about Indonesian politic, why you relate with Ibrahim? Janganla mau tembak dua burung dengan satu peluru…!!

    Reply
    • 8. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 6:53 pm

      Jokowi was Jakarta governor and currently he’s Indonesia president.

      Can Ahok one day become Indonesia president as ‘Godson’ is wishing?

      When the head of a country embraces/changes to a certain religion, then the entire country may embark on the same ‘Ubah’.

      When the Roman emperor Constantine became a Christian, that was when Christendom – in a temporal sense – was born and eventually grew to be the world’s biggest religion.

      When Parameswara converted to Islam, then Tanah Melayu started leaving behind its Hindu and animist roots.

      Now the DAP evangelistas are trying to take over Putrajaya.

      Compare Selangor in 2008 with Selangor today, especially among the youths of all races and non-Malay children. Do you think that Jerusubang has succeeded in getting a vice grip so much so that BN Selangor dah jadi begitu lemau?

      null

      Reply
      • 9. AC-DC  |  November 20, 2014 at 9:06 pm

        That comparison is inaccurate. You are comparing ancient kingdoms with a modern republic. In those kingdoms, the ruler had absolute power. He was literally considered infallible, a living god, or a representative of the gods by his peasant subjects. Indonesia is a republic, where the president is bound by the constitution, the elected council, and constitutionally limited to two full terms.

        India did not become a majority Sikh nation when Manmohhan Singh became Prime Minister from 2004 to until recently.

        Reply
        • 10. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 9:47 pm

          It is not the Age / era of Constantine (306-337 CE) nor Parameswara (c.1400) which is of issue. Newton’s law of gravity would have applied identically to 300 CE and to 1400 and to our present day 2014.

          It’s the general trend we’re talking about.

          I’m willing to agree that Manmohan Singh becoming PM would not have the same degree of potency as Parameswara ruling as a Muslim sultan. However Narendra Modi’s Hindu nationalism does have a different impact on India than say if Rahul Gandhi had succeeded to become PM.

          Look at the Christian quotient in the non-Muslim Adun line-up of Selangor today compared with the non-Muslim Aduns in Selangor in the year 2000.

          Their cronyism – like multi-level marketing (MLM) – of Evangelista promoting Evangelista is flagrant, e.g. Rajiv Rishyakaran the evangelista Personal Assistant of Hannah Yeoh being given the chance to contest the Bukit Gasing seat in PJ Selatan which was previously held by another Christian, the late Edward Lee.

          During the MCA’s heyday, there were never this many evangelical Christian YBs.

          Reply
          • 11. msleepyhead  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm

            You mean compared to the full force of the State apparatus to ensure that you can never leave a certain religion you are born into?

            By the way, there is no historical record of Parameswara converting.

            Reply
            • 12. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:57 pm

              There are two theories, one is that Parameswara converted and took on the title ‘sultan’. The other theory is that the second sultan in the line of the Malacca sultanate (dynasty founded by Parameswara) is his son.

              re: “the full force of the State apparatus to ensure that you can never leave a certain religion you are born into”

              Even without any functioning State apparatus, those born into that certain religion can’t leave according to some schools of jurisprudence. So why blame the state (I presume you’re referring to Umno-BN gomen-Malaysia) and its apparatus?

              Reply
          • 13. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 12:42 pm

            “It is not the Age / era of Constantine (306-337 CE) nor Parameswara (c.1400) which is of issue. Newton’s law of gravity would have applied identically to 300 CE and to 1400 and to our present day 2014.”

            Newton’s Law of Gravity applies to science, which is applicable in the past, present, and future. Your comparison of ancient Rome and medieval Malacca with the Republic of Indonesia tries to equate ancient civilizations with a modern one where the social psyche and power structure is vastly different.

            “I’m willing to agree that Manmohan Singh becoming PM would not have the same degree of potency as Parameswara ruling as a Muslim sultan. However Narendra Modi’s Hindu nationalism does have a different impact on India than say if Rahul Gandhi had succeeded to become PM.

            Look at the Christian quotient in the non-Muslim Adun line-up of Selangor today compared with the non-Muslim Aduns in Selangor in the year 2000.”

            Narendra Modi leads a conservative religion-based party that won the elections. His party has a different ideology than Sikh Manmohann’s Congress.

            In Selangor, the majority of the state assemblymen are Muslims. Even in the previous Selangor Menteri Besar crisis, the influence of the Christian state assemblymen were minimal.

            Reply
            • 14. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 1:07 pm

              re: “Newton’s Law of Gravity applies to science”

              Okay, you got a point so I’ll rephrase – History repeats itself.

              Trends, such as Constantine and Parameswara’s patronage of a state religion, can be a patterned template.

              Hitler repeated Napoleon’s tactical errors in invading Russia, including allowing the battles to drag on into the country’s notoriously harsh winter. Whether it was Hitler (1942) or Napoleon (1812) – they were 130 years apart – both commanders fell on the same mistakes.

              The trend to the battles could have been predicted because they repeated themselves, such as lack of winter clothing – the German and the French soldiers froze – and Hitler and Napoleon’s armies were decimated by fatigue and hunger (supplies lines disrupted/cut) and both commanders had under-estimated the Russian army while at the same time thinking that they could score quick and easy victories.

              re: “Narendra Modi leads a conservative religion-based party that won the elections. His party has a different ideology than Sikh Manmohann’s Congress.”

              Precisely. You dismissed one PM (Manmohan) as not having any sort of influence to be able to promote his own religion – Sikhism. I’m saying that another PM, in this case Modi, when given the same position of power can and will use his premiership to promote his religious cause.

              You claimed that India’s democracy and secular laws are a check on Manmohan (presuming even if he had wanted to). Well, Modi is subject to the same democracy and secular laws but because he is a Hindu nationalist, he is not wielding his power as PM in the same way that Manmohan did. So the leader’s personality is a factor.

              re: “In Selangor, the majority of the state assemblymen are Muslims. Even in the previous Selangor Menteri Besar crisis, the influence of the Christian state assemblymen were minimal.”

              Oh really? You’re privy to what goes on behind-the-scenes in the Selangor exco? I thouht you’re Penang based.

              null

              Reply
              • 15. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 1:54 pm

                To sum up the winter campaigns by both Hitler and Napoleon against the Red Army, the application is that the same set of circumstances, i.e. don’t play-play with the Russians, will yield the same result.

                That’s the trend which can be reasonably predicted although not as infallible as the laws of science.

                Reply
            • 16. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm

              “Trends, such as Constantine and Parameswara’s patronage of a state religion, can be a patterned template.

              Hitler repeated Napoleon’s tactical errors…”

              Again, you are trying to compare two ancient civilizations with a modern democratic republic, where the power structure and scope of power held by the ruler is vastly different.

              “Precisely. You dismissed one PM (Manmohan) as not having any sort of influence to be able to promote his own religion – Sikhism. I’m saying that another PM, in this case Modi, when given the same position of power can and will use his premiership to promote his religious cause.

              You claimed that India’s democracy and secular laws are a check on Manmohan (presuming even if he had wanted to). Well, Modi is subject to the same democracy and secular laws but because he is a Hindu nationalist, he is not wielding his power as PM in the same way that Manmohan did. So the leader’s personality is a factor.”

              Are Muslims in India flocking to temples to convert to Hinduism?

              “Oh really? You’re privy to what goes on behind-the-scenes in the Selangor exco? I thouht you’re Penang based.”

              I am from Kuala Lumpur.

              Are you insinuating that the Al-Kitab’s were returned under direction from the Christian state assemblyman or speaker?

              Reply
              • 17. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm

                re: “Again, you are trying to compare two ancient civilizations with a modern democratic republic, where the power structure and scope of power held by the ruler is vastly different.”

                You’re daft. I’m saying that trends will be the same. At first I gave the example of the Law of Gravity which you correctly pointed out was science. So I rephrased and gave an example from history, comparing Hitler with Napoleon (130 years apart).

                Can a modern state, i.e. India today, compare with Parameswara (600 years ago)?

                I’d say ‘Yes’ because human nature does not change. Two thousand years ago, Cain killed his brother Abel. Do brothers kill each other today for the same reason that Cain killed Abel. Sure.

                re: “Are Muslims in India flocking to temples to convert to Hinduism?”

                The BJP’s Hindu nationalism is a negative force, not a positive (i.e. encouraging Muslims to convert to Hinduism) force. But will BJP-affiliated leaders are making things more difficult for Muslims than Manmohan’s government? The answer is ‘Yes’.

                re: “Are you insinuating that the Al-Kitab’s were returned under direction from the Christian state assemblyman or speaker?”

                Isn’t this the reason that DAP gave their supporters for the Selangor Pakatan’s decision to oust Khalid? The Tan Sri was deposed through strong pressure from PKR and DAP. The Muslim PAS Aduns were behind him.

                Reply
                • 18. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 4:46 pm

                  “You’re daft. I’m saying that trends will be the same. At first I gave the example of the Law of Gravity which you correctly pointed out was science. So I rephrased and gave an example from history, comparing Hitler with Napoleon (130 years apart).”

                  You are calling me daft because I do not accept your insistance of comparing apples with oranges, and later comparing pineapples to langsat? How foolish.

                  “Can a modern state, i.e. India today, compare with Parameswara (600 years ago)? I’d say ‘Yes’ because human nature does not change.”

                  Human thinking in societies do.

                  Slavery for instance, was legal hundreds of years ago especially in medieval Malacca and ancient Rome. Humans thought it was the natural order of things. Today it is banned.

                  India did not see a rise in Sikhism as a result of Manmohan Singh’s premiership. Under Narendra Modi, we have not seen scores of Muslims queue at Hindu temples to convert. We will unlikely see mass conversions to Christianity with Ahok running Jakarta, and certainly the Indonesians do not see him as a God-King with absolute power.

                  “But will BJP-affiliated leaders are making things more difficult for Muslims than Manmohan’s government? The answer is ‘Yes’.”

                  But will that make Muslims convert to Hinduism in droves? That is the question related to the original discourse.

                  “re: “Are you insinuating that the Al-Kitab’s were returned under direction from the Christian state assemblyman or speaker?”

                  Isn’t this the reason that DAP gave their supporters for the Selangor Pakatan’s decision to oust Khalid? The Tan Sri was deposed through strong pressure from PKR and DAP. The Muslim PAS Aduns were behind him.”

                  The Palace played an important role in the recent return of the Al-Kitab’s. Are you insinuating that the Palace, and the Head of Islam in Selangor is being directed by Christians?

                  Reply
                  • 19. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 5:24 pm

                    re: “In the article above written by you, you included the Far East and other regions of Asia. So lets stick to the scope of the article which covers Asia. As history tells us, the spread of Islam in the Indian subcontinent was anything but peaceful.”

                    My article is about the spread of Christianity and focuses on the 11 SE Asian countries. You’re the one who had to drag in Islam. Typical. You all memang tak leh lepas berdendam dengan Islam. Menyerlah.

                    re: “How many members of City Harvest Church are there compared to the Sidang Injil Borneo? What is the proportion of CHC adherents compared to the total number of Christians in Malaysia?”

                    The pix above shows a CHC mega gathering. Who are the adherents? There one pix showing HY in CHC SJ. Her DAP colleague MP Stampin is a CHC parishioner. Probably a number of them are.

                    re: “But overall, they make up a minority of the Christian population in Malaysia.”

                    But they disproportionately occupy the top leadership of the Church.

                    re: “Instead we see Malaysian Muslims being influenced by ISIS through digital techonology, and buying one-way tickets to die in the Syrian deserts.”

                    So what are you implying by this?

                    Reply
                  • 20. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 6:22 pm

                    “My article is about the spread of Christianity and focuses on the 11 SE Asian countries.”

                    Some of your own words from the article, of which nearly one-third is about Christianity in Asia:

                    BELOW: Christianity is moving from Europe to the Asia Pacific

                    You can see from the demographic map above that South Korea is today very Christian while the Christian populations in China and Indonesia are burgeoning.

                    Christianity is a religion spread by the white man. So how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian? After all, Christianity is not indigenous to this region.

                    Trying to shift the goalposts, eh?

                    “You’re the one who had to drag in Islam. Typical. You all memang tak leh lepas berdendam dengan Islam. Menyerlah.”

                    You said that Christianity is not indigenous to the region of Asia. That is a fact. And so is Islam, which is also not native to the region. Why accuse me of attacking Islam when I mention it as an example of another non-indigenous religion in Asia?

                    Speaking of ‘berdendam’, it appears that you are the one with such vindictiveness and obsession towards Christianity. And Hannah Yeoh. Nearly every single article will have such negative bile tossed at the two.

                    “The pix above shows a CHC mega gathering. Who are the adherents? There one pix showing HY in CHC SJ. Her DAP colleague MP Stampin is a CHC parishioner. Probably a number of them are.”

                    Statistics lah. How many CHC adherents are there in Malaysia? Now how many Sidang Injil Borneo adherents are there?

                    “So what are you implying by this?”

                    What I imply, is that Muslims here are more likely to be influenced by militant Islamist media on the internet, than be influenced by Christian elements on the internet.

                    Reply
                    • 21. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 6:52 pm

                      re: “Trying to shift the goalposts, eh?”

                      Not at all. My article does not discuss Islam. You’re the one is who is invariably bringing up Islam.

                      Secondly as you quoted, I said “Christianity is moving from Europe to the Asia Pacific”. Asia Pacific is China and Korea and Japan as per my article mentions. You’re the one who chooses to stress on the Muslim fiery sword in the Indian sub-continent.

                      re: “You said that Christianity is not indigenous to the region of Asia. That is a fact. And so is Islam, which is also not native to the region.”

                      Both are not. However Islam is embraced by people belonging to the Malay stock who are indigenous to Kepulauan Melayu. The City Harvest Christians are Chinese who are not indigenous to the area where they are located, i.e. Singapore and Subang Jaya.

                      re: “Speaking of ‘berdendam’, it appears that you are the one with such vindictiveness and obsession towards Christianity. And Hannah Yeoh. Nearly every single article will have such negative bile tossed at the two.”

                      Not at all.

                      I do not consider the Gospel of Prosperity to be real Christianity. Please watch this video to see how the evangelistas are scamming gullible sheeple.

                      As for the City Harvest Church, we should wait to see what action the Singapore authorities will be taking against it should the court find the CHC pastors guilty of criminal breach of trust and corruption.

                      re: “Statistics lah. How many CHC adherents are there in Malaysia? Now how many Sidang Injil Borneo adherents are there?”

                      I blog on the stats that I’m able to source. I don’t produce stats from out of a magician’s rabbit hat at your command and pleasure.

                      It’s like the next time you mention Islam, I should demand that you give me the figures breakdown on how many Wahabi/Salafi, Shiah, Sufi, Ahmadiyah and ASWJ followers there are in Malaysia?

                      Asking for a breakdown according to church (CHC and SIB) is too much. Even the Dept of Stats don’t go into such detail. The mega gathering pix is already an impressive show of CHC numbers.

                      re: “What I imply, is that Muslims here are more likely to be influenced by militant Islamist media on the internet, than be influenced by Christian elements on the internet.”

                      So to you the Muslims are militant while the Christians are meek and mild?

                    • 22. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 7:19 pm

                      “re: “Trying to shift the goalposts, eh?”

                      Not at all. My article does not discuss Islam. You’re the one is who is invariably bringing up Islam.

                      Secondly as you quoted, I said “Christianity is moving from Europe to the Asia Pacific”. Asia Pacific is China and Korea and Japan as per my article mentions. You’re the one who chooses to stress on the Muslim fiery sword in the Indian sub-continent.”

                      You also said:

                      Christianity is a religion spread by the white man. So how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian? After all, Christianity is not indigenous to this region.

                      India and Pakistan is still considered part of the Asia region. See what I mean about you shifting the goalposts? It Asia, then Southeast Asia, then Asia Pacific, whichever is convenient to you at that moment.

                      “Both are not. However Islam is embraced by people belonging to the Malay stock who are indigenous to Kepulauan Melayu. The City Harvest Christians are Chinese who are not indigenous to the area where they are located, i.e. Singapore and Subang Jaya.”

                      Christianity is also embraced by people of indigenous ethnicity in this region. CHC may be predominantly Chinese. But it is not the largest denomination in Malaysia, or even a significant portion.

                      “re: “Statistics lah. How many CHC adherents are there in Malaysia? Now how many Sidang Injil Borneo adherents are there?”

                      I blog on the stats that I’m able to source. I don’t produce stats from out of a magician’s rabbit hat at your command and pleasure.”

                      “Asking for a breakdown according to church (CHC and SIB) is too much. Even the Dept of Stats don’t go into such detail. The mega gathering pix is already an impressive show of CHC numbers.”

                      Why? Is it too much for you to do? Just use Google and you will get the rough answers.

                      Given the way you write articles and target certain groups, I do not expect you to have the statistics to back your point.

                      “It’s like the next time you mention Islam, I should demand that you give me the figures breakdown on how many Wahabi/Salafi, Shiah, Sufi, Ahmadiyah and ASWJ followers there are in Malaysia?”

                      If I claimed that for example that Ahmadiyah Muslims are already a major force in Malaysia. Then I would need figures, and a reputable source.

                      “re: “What I imply, is that Muslims here are more likely to be influenced by militant Islamist media on the internet, than be influenced by Christian elements on the internet.”
                      So to you the Muslims are militant while the Christians are meek and mild?”

                      Nope, certainly not at all.

                    • 23. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 8:07 pm

                      re: “See what I mean about you shifting the goalposts? It Asia, then Southeast Asia, then Asia Pacific, whichever is convenient to you at that moment.”

                      You’re the one who’s running around like a headless chicken.

                      There’s an order of precedence in my article focus. Obviously SE Asia comes first as I gave detailed data on all 11 countries, and next followed by Asia Pacific/Far East which I highlighted wrt the 2010 demography map showing a boom in Christianity in Korea and growing in China.

                      And again, obviously SE Asia is a subset of the Asian continent at large. Don’t tell me that if one is writing about England and he mentions Europe, you’re going to accuse him of being “convenient”? The more you write here, the more you Show & Tell the silent readership how the slimy evangelistas operate.

                      I did not give any data for the Indian sub-continent and only made a passing mention that St Francis Xavier stopped over in Goa. You’re the one who’s obsessed over Islam’s spread in the Indian subcontinent. Your Islamophobia is showing.

                      re: “Christianity is also embraced by people of indigenous ethnicity in this region. CHC may be predominantly Chinese. But it is not the largest denomination in Malaysia, or even a significant portion.”

                      You’re correct that the Sabah & Sarawak natives are Christians. However we’re talking about quantum growth, like in S’pore and who is spreading the evangelical Christianity. CHC was established in S’pore and thereafter setting up branches in Subang Jaya, Georgetown and other Chinese-dominated towns.

                      In this instance, the missionary activity is from Chinese (& Indian) to Chinese (& Indian) and across national borders from S’pore to M’sia. It is not the native Sabahans who are spreading their Christianity to S’pore.

                      re: “Why? Is it too much for you to do? Just use Google and you will get the rough answers.”

                      If it’s so easy to be done, why don’t you do the Googling – since you claim to have Googled 30,000 “Allah saw” entries – and tell us roughly how big the congregations are for CHC and SIB? After all, I never even mentioned SIB. You’re the one who brought up its name.

                      re: “Given the way you write articles and target certain groups, I do not expect you to have the statistics to back your point.”

                      I’ve already said I blog on what stats are available to me. I never even mentioned Sidang Injil Borneo. So why do you demand the figures for one particular church which I never pinpointed? You might as well ask me to produce the figures breakdown too for the Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Adventists and what not while you’re at it.

                      I’m sure other readers can judge for themselves whether you’re being reasonable or not.

                      Given the way you simply throw everything and the kitchen sink, I’d like you to provide the SIB numbers since you’re the one who brought up their name.

                      re: “If I claimed that for example that Ahmadiyah Muslims are already a major force in Malaysia. Then I would need figures, and a reputable source.”

                      I’ve already produced the figures. I said Christians are a major force in our region and that in 2010, the Christians were 21 percent of the pop. of SE Asia, i.e. 124 million Christians from a total pop. of 593 million. And I gave linked source of my data, i.e. compiled from the Pew Report.

                      You’re just convincing the fence-sitters that Evangelista and Putar Alam bagai isi dan kuku.

                    • 24. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 9:33 pm

                      “There’s an order of precedence in my article focus. Obviously SE Asia comes first as I gave detailed data on all 11 countries, and next followed by Asia Pacific/Far East which I highlighted wrt the 2010 demography map showing a boom in Christianity in Korea and growing in China.
                      And again, obviously SE Asia is a subset of the Asian continent at large. ”

                      There you go again. Putar-belit and shifting goalposts. If you want to keep the discussion to Southeast Asia, then avoid covering the larger region in the first place when you wrote the article, with paragraphs about Japan, South Korea, charts about the whole Asian region, and about ‘how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian?’.

                      “The more you write here, the more you Show & Tell the silent readership how the slimy evangelistas operate.”

                      On the contrary. It shows everybody how you easily shift the goalposts when a debate is not in your favour, and easily pick facts and omit others for your convenience.

                      “I did not give any data for the Indian sub-continent and only made a passing mention that St Francis Xavier stopped over in Goa. You’re the one who’s obsessed over Islam’s spread in the Indian subcontinent. Your Islamophobia is showing.”

                      Of course. It would be inconvenient to the point that you are trying to make.

                      India and Pakistan, is part of Asia. Which you so wrote about in this article. Now you are trying to use the Islamophobia label on me for bringing up a valid counterpoint to your points. Ad-hominem, huh?

                      “CHC was established in S’pore and thereafter setting up branches in Subang Jaya, Georgetown and other Chinese-dominated towns.
                      In this instance, the missionary activity is from Chinese (& Indian) to Chinese (& Indian) and across national borders from S’pore to M’sia. It is not the native Sabahans who are spreading their Christianity to S’pore.”

                      Chinese and Indian Chinese to Chinese and Indian. Ha tengok, mana ade Melayu?

                      “If it’s so easy to be done, why don’t you do the Googling – since you claim to have Googled 30,000 “Allah saw” entries – and tell us roughly how big the congregations are for CHC and SIB? After all, I never even mentioned SIB. You’re the one who brought up its name.
                      re: “Given the way you write articles and target certain groups, I do not expect you to have the statistics to back your point.”
                      I’ve already said I blog on what stats are available to me. I never even mentioned Sidang Injil Borneo. So why do you demand the figures for one particular church which I never pinpointed? You might as well ask me to produce the figures breakdown too for the Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Adventists and what not while you’re at it.
                      I’m sure other readers can judge for themselves whether you’re being reasonable or not.
                      Given the way you simply throw everything and the kitchen sink, I’d like you to provide the SIB numbers since you’re the one who brought up their name.”

                      Well, since Helen is too lazy or too worried to dig up the numbers.

                      http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/sib-grows-the-fastest

                      In Sarawak, Malaysia’s largest state and where close to a quarter of the population was Christian, SIB members number some 170,000. In Sabah, which is just as rural, there are 120,000 SIB members.

                      In the peninsula, a substantial 3,000 Orang Asli scattered across tiny villages mostly in Perak and Pahang have embraced Christianity, compared to some 2,000 urban-dwellers concentrated in the Klang Valley who converted from other churches.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Harvest_Church

                      The Congregation size (2013 figure) is listed as 18,192.

                      Wow whee. One to ten ratio. And that includes Singapore.

                    • 25. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 11:21 pm

                      re: “There you go again. Putar-belit and shifting goalposts. If you want to keep the discussion to Southeast Asia, then avoid covering the larger region in the first place when you wrote the article, with paragraphs about Japan, South Korea, charts about the whole Asian region, and about ‘how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian?’.”

                      You’re making a fool of yourself, and displaying your own muddledness and lack of comprehension ability.

                      I wrote basically on SE Asia and gave the comprehensive figures for SE Asia, and made some mention of the Far East / Asia Pacific. Including S. Korea and China in my discussion in passing is perfectly rational because both countries have a lot of Christians (in China’s case, absolute numbers rather than percentage).

                      I did not state Japanese figures (low) in this article but I linked to the Tokugawa shogunate discussed in my previous article.

                      When I asked “how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian?” obviously I’m referring to SE Asia because if I’d wanted to include the Indian subcontinent in the equation, then I’d have indicated another colour of skin – “mohogany” perhaps.

                      The ‘yellow’ – Thai, Cambodian, Laotian, etc

                      The ‘brown’ – Malays in Nusantara and the Philippines.

                      “A large part of the Asian continent” which you bolded (I don’t see why or what you’re insinuating) is perfectly sensible to indicate the spread of Christinity. SE Asia is a significant part of the Asian continent. On our own, we the 11 countries, are not a continent, are we?

                      This Asian continent compares with the European continent which used to contribute the bulk of the world’s Christians (as mentioned in relation to the 1910 map) and the Americas both North and South which are Christian as indicated by the map.

                      re: “On the contrary. It shows everybody how you easily shift the goalposts when a debate is not in your favour, and easily pick facts and omit others for your convenience.”

                      Your Islamophobia made you drag the Indian sub-continent into the picture and talking about how the Muslims spread Islam there though conquest “brutally”.

                      I had no need either to “pick” to mention or to “omit” to mention the Indian sub-continent because the Christian figures there are not essential to my thesis on Christianity.

                      It is you with your Islam obsession that moved the terrain westward. I wrote about Christianity moving eastward.

                      You want to bash Islam and you move the goalposts to Indian subcontinent when it’s my article and since I choose to discuss Christianity (and not Islam), it’s my call which countries or which regions I choose to include. I don’t see any shifting goalposts at all. This is only your usual style of smelly red herring.

                      re: “I did not give any data for the Indian sub-continent and only made a passing mention that St Francis Xavier stopped over in Goa. You’re the one who’s obsessed over Islam’s spread in the Indian subcontinent. Your Islamophobia is showing.” / Your reply: “Of course. It would be inconvenient to the point that you are trying to make. India and Pakistan, is part of Asia. Which you so wrote about in this article. Now you are trying to use the Islamophobia label on me for bringing up a valid counterpoint to your points. Ad-hominem, huh?”

                      Why should I want to write about India and Pakistan? If I include India and Pakistan as a part of Big Asia, then I would need to include Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan or whatever. And these are Muslim countries too and don’t impact much on my Christian statistics. They’re irrelevant to my main point that 1/4 of SE Asia will be Christian by the next decade.

                      You’re obviously building straw men and setting impossible parameters for my article to fulfil. Typical opposition approach.

                      re: “Chinese and Indian Chinese to Chinese and Indian. Ha tengok, mana ade Melayu?”

                      When did anybody ever allege that Singaporean Chinese Christians are trying to convert Malays in Malaysia? You make up your own assumptions.

                      re: “In Sarawak, Malaysia’s largest state and where close to a quarter of the population was Christian, SIB members number some 170,000. In Sabah, which is just as rural, there are 120,000 SIB members.”

                      Okay. Thank you for the numbers. They’re bigger than I might have previously registered.

                      re: “Wow whee. One to ten ratio. And that includes Singapore.”

                      City Harvest is just one of the evangelical churches. There are others. I say CHC out of convenience because of its infamy. Isma is the first name that comes to mind from among the Muslim NGOs but there are others too. People also name Isma specifically but it doesn’t mean that Muslim activists only belong to Isma and there are no other Islamic organization.

                    • 26. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 11:54 pm

                      “When I asked “how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian?” obviously I’m referring to SE Asia because if I’d wanted to include the Indian subcontinent in the equation, then I’d have indicated another colour of skin – “mohogany” perhaps.”

                      No, it is not obvious. And it appears you are trying to shift the goalposts again. Otherwise you would have written “…a large part of the Southeast Asian region…” or to that matter, and limited the scope of your article to the region firstplace.

                      Many Indians are regarded to be brown skinned.

                      “SE Asia is a significant part of the Asian continent. On our own, we the 11 countries, are not a continent, are we?”

                      Southeast Asia is geographically considered a region, not a continent.

                      “Your Islamophobia made you drag the Indian sub-continent into the picture and talking about how the Muslims spread Islam there though conquest “brutally”.”

                      Again, you wrote about the Asian continent in your article. Which includes the Indian sub-continent.

                      “I had no need either to “pick” to mention or to “omit” to mention the Indian sub-continent because the Christian figures there are not essential to my thesis on Christianity.
                      It is you with your Islam obsession that moved the terrain westward. I wrote about Christianity moving eastward.”
                      You want to bash Islam and you move the goalposts to Indian subcontinent”

                      Hey, you included the Asian continent in your article, and so that includes the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison.

                      “when it’s my article and since I choose to discuss Christianity (and not Islam), it’s my call which countries or which regions I choose to include.”

                      Yes, it is your article. But why do you get so worked up as if you “termakan cili” when people actually do refute your points? If lets say, someone makes statements, for example, that ‘Hinduism is irrational’, then it is valid for someone else to bring about another religion as an example of a counterpoint.

                      “Why should I want to write about India and Pakistan? If I include India and Pakistan as a part of Big Asia, then I would need to include Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan or whatever. And these are Muslim countries too and don’t impact much on my Christian statistics. They’re irrelevant to my main point that 1/4 of SE Asia will be Christian by the next decade.
                      You’re obviously building straw men and setting impossible parameters for my article to fulfil. Typical opposition approach.

                      Hey, your article included Asia in its points.

                      Anyway, if you set up points backed up with flimsy evidence, you should not be so angry if other people easily refute it.

                      re: “Chinese and Indian Chinese to Chinese and Indian. Ha tengok, mana ade Melayu?”
                      When did anybody ever allege that Singaporean Chinese Christians are trying to convert Malays in Malaysia? You make up your own assumptions.

                      Do you know what sarcasm is? You sure take things too literally.

                    • 27. Helen Ang  |  November 22, 2014 at 1:09 am

                      re: “And it appears you are trying to shift the goalposts again.”

                      You sound like a broken record. Triple yawn. Please expand your repertoire.

                      re: “Otherwise you would have written ‘…a large part of the Southeast Asian region…’ or to that matter, and limited the scope of your article to the region first place.”

                      How can I possibly phrase it “a large part of the Southeast Asian region” as suggested by you when I’m including mention of South Korea (which has the world’s biggest mega churches) and China?

                      There’s absolutely no issue at all if I chose to focus on SE Asia and adding to that that Christianity is moving eastwards to the Asia Pacific. Why in the world must I limit the scope of my article – and omit South Korea and China – to please guttersnipes like you?

                      I’ve already said, as in the case of S’pore, that it is the Chinese who are embracing evangelical Christianity with a vengeance. I do not know whether the Uzbeks and the Kazakhs are being converted or not (my guess is not).

                      But regardless, you have no say on whether I must include Uzbeks or Kazakhs or Afghans in my article. The fact that you’re guttersniping over this is another Show & Tell for the Malay audience on what kind of people you (all) are.

                      re: “Many Indians are regarded to be brown skinned.”

                      I believe a certain political party has earned the bad will of Indians by the derogatory comments made about the Indian’s skin tone, and the colour description word used by the politicians of that party ain’t “brown”.

                      re: “Southeast Asia is geographically considered a region, not a continent.”

                      Precisely. That’s why I wrote that the 11 SE Asian countries in my data set, together with Korea and China make up “…such a large part of the Asian continent…”. The fact that you’re quibbling this shows your Porkiness (Principle).

                      re: “Again, you wrote about the Asian continent in your article. Which includes the Indian sub-continent.”

                      Because SE Asia lies within Asia. Can I write about England and should never even mention once that it is in Europe? There’s no need for me to dwell on the Indian sub-continent because my article is about Christianity, not about Hinduism or Islam.

                      Your Islamophobia is showing.

                      re: “Hey, you included the Asian continent in your article, and so that includes the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison.”

                      Hey, my blog article is 1,015 words and not an academic paper to be presented in a seminar. I’m writing about the expansion of Christianity. Why should I kowtow to you and obey your command to “include the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison”?

                      re: “But why do you get so worked up as if you “termakan cili” when people actually do refute your points?”

                      What points are there to refute? You’re simply harassing me to “include the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison”. If I’m in any way worked up, it’s because such a repulsive creature as you are contaminating my blog space.

                      re: “If lets say, someone makes statements, for example, that ‘Hinduism is irrational’, then it is valid for someone else to bring about another religion as an example of a counterpoint.”

                      You want to bring up Islam as an example of a counterpoint, and you did. However you have no basis for forcing me to include Islam as an example of a counterpoint in my article. I do not share your Islamophobia.

                      re: “Hey, your article included Asia in its points.”

                      Hey, my article totalled 1,015 words and this is counting the data. You want me to include the other Asian countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the rest of the ‘stans’ and Mongolia and Tibet on top of India that you’re obsessing about?

                      re: “Anyway, if you set up points backed up with flimsy evidence, you should not be so angry if other people easily refute it.”

                      Methinks at this juncture, everybody can see that I’m exasperated because you’re a repulsive YY displaying the most revolting behaviour and my exasperation has absolutely nothing to do with your evident lack of intellectual acumen to argue.

                      re: “Do you know what sarcasm is? You sure take things too literally.”

                      Earlier I said you were “daft”. You sure take things too literally that you bristled or maybe you believed that I had hit the nail right on the head and it was mere sarcasm after all … daffy … wakakakaka sarcastic cackle.

                    • 28. AC-DC  |  November 22, 2014 at 1:45 am

                      “How can I possibly phrase it “a large part of the Southeast Asian region” as suggested by you when I’m including mention of South Korea (which has the world’s biggest mega churches) and China?
                      There’s absolutely no issue at all if I chose to focus on SE Asia and adding to that that Christianity is moving eastwards to the Asia Pacific. Why in the world must I limit the scope of my article – and omit South Korea and China – to please guttersnipes like you?”

                      “But regardless, you have no say on whether I must include Uzbeks or Kazakhs or Afghans in my article. The fact that you’re guttersniping over this is another Show & Tell for the Malay audience on what kind of people you (all) are.”

                      And you have no say whether I can or cannot bring up the case of the south Asian Indian subcontinent to rebut your points, when you have already been discussing about Asia in your article and earlier replies.

                      The fact that you shrink or expand the scope of the topic to try and worm your way out speaks volumes about your behaviour. No wonder few people want to feature your articles.

                      I believe a certain political party has earned the bad will of Indians by the derogatory comments made about the Indian’s skin tone, and the colour description word used by the politicians of that party ain’t “brown”.

                      “Precisely. That’s why I wrote that the 11 SE Asian countries in my data set, together with Korea and China make up “…such a large part of the Asian continent…”. The fact that you’re quibbling this shows your Porkiness (Principle).”

                      “re: “Again, you wrote about the Asian continent in your article. Which includes the Indian sub-continent.”
                      Because SE Asia lies within Asia. Can I write about England and should never even mention once that it is in Europe?”

                      And in the scope, so does the Indian subcontinent. You spent around a third of the article discussing other parts of Asia apart from the southeast.

                      “There’s no need for me to dwell on the Indian sub-continent because my article is about Christianity, not about Hinduism or Islam.
                      Your Islamophobia is showing.”

                      You are unable to refute my counterpoint to your opinion singling out Christianity as non-indigenous to Asia, and spread by subjugation and colonialism, so therefore you label me ‘Islamophobic’.

                      “Hey, my blog article is 1,015 words and not an academic paper to be presented in a seminar. I’m writing about the expansion of Christianity. Why should I kowtow to you and obey your command to “include the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison”?

                      “What points are there to refute? You’re simply harassing me to “include the eastward movement of Islam as a comparison”. If I’m in any way worked up, it’s because such a repulsive creature as you are contaminating my blog space.”

                      If you are worked up, it is because I do not accept your points as they are selective and flimsy.

                      “You want to bring up Islam as an example of a counterpoint, and you did. However you have no basis for forcing me to include Islam as an example of a counterpoint in my article. I do not share your Islamophobia.”

                      Because it certainly is also not indigenous to Asia, and two, it was brought into South Asia via colonialism and subjugation of the Hindus. Those are facts and no amount of trying to obfuscate by tossing about ‘Islamophobia’ ad-hominems will work.

                      “Methinks at this juncture, everybody can see that I’m exasperated because you’re a repulsive YY displaying the most revolting behaviour and my exasperation has absolutely nothing to do with your evident lack of intellectual acumen to argue.”

                      No, because you keep shifting goalposts and berdolak-dalik.

                      “Earlier I said you were “daft”. You sure take things too literally that you bristled or maybe you believed that I had hit the nail right on the head and it was mere sarcasm after all … daffy … wakakakaka sarcastic cackle.”

                      You must be the one who is bristling to be throwing all sorts of names at me, from porkiness, to daffy, yy, to Islamophobia all because I disagree with your conjectures and poorly based ideas.

                      How ironic that you accuse me of Islamophobia when your articles reeks and stinks of Christianphobia, and anti-Christian baiting.

                    • 29. Helen Ang  |  November 22, 2014 at 2:07 am

                      I throw all sorts of names at you?

                      It’s called an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I believe this is the correct policy to adopt in dealing with YYs.

                      And merely in response to your repulsiveness, including your fitnah that I deliberately “blocked” your one mention of “Allah s.a.w” in the Kosmo! article (which incidentally contained eight mentions of “Allah s.w.t”) as well as your other accusation that I’d dissappeared the “SAW” word from the screenshot, which is ridiculous as it’s impossible for me to have admin control over Saiful Bahri website.

                      re: “No wonder few people want to feature your articles.”

                      The Yahudi Yeohs terrorizing the countryside has made it impossible for any writer who is not pro-DAP to appear in the media they control with an iron grip.

                      You write something contrary like Syed Ali Alhabshee did @ http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/280759

                      and voila, the ape shit 215 reader comments strike back.

                      You all still have no idea how repulsive you are, do you?

                    • 30. AC-DC  |  November 22, 2014 at 1:56 pm

                      “It’s called an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I believe this is the correct policy to adopt in dealing with YYs.”

                      Well it certainly shows you are bristling.

                      “And merely in response to your repulsiveness, including your fitnah that I deliberately “blocked” your one mention of “Allah s.a.w” in the Kosmo! article (which incidentally contained eight mentions of “Allah s.w.t”)”

                      You were “fitnah”-ing me in the first place by alleging I was trying to insist to you and your readers that ‘Allah SAW’ is a correct term. All I did was to point cases of it being used by other Malays. I did not say it was correct or otherwise to use it.

                      re: “No wonder few people want to feature your articles.”
                      “The Yahudi Yeohs terrorizing the countryside has made it impossible for any writer who is not pro-DAP to appear in the media they control with an iron grip.”

                      So all because they do not agree, write critical comments, and some resorting to ad-hominem, therefore they are ‘terrorizing’?

                      Gee, I wonder how the numerous anti-Chinese, anti-Indian, anti-Christian/anti-Hindu/anti-Buddhist, and now anti-Borneo nonsense coming out from the likes of the religious and racial far-right that you now shore up with? And these folks have the full might of the state apparatus behind it, or at least closing an eye to their antics.

                    • 31. Helen Ang  |  November 22, 2014 at 2:23 pm

                      re: “Well it certainly shows you are bristling.”

                      I believe that in the days to come, more and more pro-establishment supporters will adopt the policy of pulangkan paku keras.

                      Buku bertemu ruas is the correct tactical strategy and not a emotional backlash.

                      re: “You were “fitnah”-ing me in the first place by alleging I was trying to insist to you and your readers that ‘Allah SAW’ is a correct term.”

                      Porky Principle at work.

                      Alvin Tan – No lah, where got? – wasn’t being insulting when he invited Muslims to berbuka puasa with Bak Kut Teh. He was merely trying to build bridges as after all, the BKT was chicken (and halal).

                      Furthermore, Alvin’s invitation was couched in polite terms. He didn’t say any harsh, insulting words and he was all smiles, so how can lah say that he insulted?
                      Porky Principle, just like your benang basah.

                      re: “All I did was to point cases of it being used by other Malays. I did not say it was correct or otherwise to use it.”

                      You originally wrote @ 2014/11/21 at 7:24 pm:

                      “You [Helen Ang] are saying that you find it hard to believe that the commenter [‘AkuMelayu’]is actually a Malay, based on his use of that phrase.

                      “I just provided evidence of over 30,000 cases where that phrase was used in Malay-language blogs, social media, websites, and academic papers.”

                      ——————————————————————————-

                      Yeah, right, “30,000 entries” just like the “40,000 Bangladeshis”.

                      re: “So all because they do not agree, write critical comments, and some resorting to ad-hominem, therefore they are ‘terrorizing’?”

                      If you think that the kind of comments the YY spew at writers (whose opinion they don’t agree with – http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/280759) are within acceptable limits of fair criticism and not a form of cyber “terrorism”, then it’s obvious you’re a YY too.

                      re: “Gee, I wonder how the numerous anti-Chinese, anti-Indian, anti-Christian/anti-Hindu/anti-Buddhist, and now anti-Borneo nonsense coming out from the likes of the religious and racial far-right that you now shore up with?”

                      This pukul rata retaliation by the right wing is unfortunate because the Indians, the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Borneons are not troublemakers.

                      Unfortunately Umno, the great defender of the Race and Religion, does not have the smarts to carry out surgical strikes that should be aimed at the munafiq nesting in the heart of Jerusubang.

                    • 32. AC-DC  |  November 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm

                      “I believe that in the days to come, more and more pro-establishment supporters will adopt the policy of pulangkan paku keras.

                      Buku bertemu ruas is the correct tactical strategy and not a emotional backlash.”

                      Typical response of those who are unable to articulate their points. When others de-construct their flimsy evidence, they get angry and threaten retaliation.

                      There was one (maybe now ex-) reader who is a critic of Pakatan Rakyat. I recall he got into a lengthy debate with you on that matter and your ideas on it. I do not agree with him on many issues, but it is no surprise when he said you ‘putar-belit’ and were ‘forked-tongue’.

                      “re: “You were “fitnah”-ing me in the first place by alleging I was trying to insist to you and your readers that ‘Allah SAW’ is a correct term.”
                      Porky Principle at work.”
                      You originally wrote @ 2014/11/21 at 7:24 pm:
                      “You [Helen Ang] are saying that you find it hard to believe that the commenter [‘AkuMelayu’]is actually a Malay, based on his use of that phrase.
                      “I just provided evidence of over 30,000 cases where that phrase was used in Malay-language blogs, social media, websites, and academic papers.”

                      Prove where did I say that ‘Allah SAW’ is a correct term. I merely said that there are also examples of that phrase being used in Malay-language sites online. Rightly or wrong, that is another matter.

                      “Yeah, right, “30,000 entries” just like the “40,000 Bangladeshis”.”

                      Sigh…

                      http://postimg.org/image/cqil0vzoj/

                      “This pukul rata retaliation by the right wing is unfortunate because the Indians, the Hindus, the Buddhists and the Borneons are not troublemakers.”

                      The right-wing thinks they also are troublemakers. They think:

                      – objecting to using government school premises for slaughtering cows is troublemaking
                      – marching and carrying posters of the Agong and Gandhi is troublemaking
                      – objecting and resigning from the government as a result of not getting the resources he needs as troublemaking (Waythamoorty)
                      – promoting moderation is troublemaking
                      – building a large temple in Penang is troublemaking
                      – fighting discrimination against homosexuals is troublemaking
                      – renovating a temple in Klang is troublemaking
                      – protesting for native rights in Borneo is troublemaking
                      – organising a dog-event is troublemaking
                      – and many other examples

                      Essentially, anybody who does not submit to their rigid extreme ways and obey it without question, is a troublemaker. Who must be dealt with the policy of ‘pulangkan paku keras’.

                      And you cozy up with these people.

                      “Unfortunately Umno, the great defender of the Race and Religion, does not have the smarts to carry out surgical strikes that should be aimed at the munafiq nesting in the heart of Jerusubang.”

                      The biggest problem to Umno does not come from Subang Jaya, Sabah, Sarawak, or some church in the Klang Valley. The biggest problem comes from within; from the rightist faction unwilling to adapt, to the clueless person running it (and the country).

                    • 33. Helen Ang  |  November 22, 2014 at 4:52 pm

                      re: “Typical response of those who are unable to articulate their points.”

                      You’re describing yourself.

                      You lack valid points essentially, so you keep on jabbering about “shifting goalposts”. Your twisting yourself into knots over my ‘Christianity in South Korea’ mention is a case in point.

                      re: “When others de-construct their flimsy evidence”

                      “EVIDENCE” … yours lah.

                      Well then, why don’t you just demonstrate what you claim?

                      You had claimed – after Googling – that you “just provided evidence of over 30,000 cases where that phrase [Allah saw] was used in Malay-language blogs, social media, websites, and academic papers”.

                      Let’s see your evidence from one academic paper that uses “Allah s.a.w.]

                      re: “they get angry and threaten retaliation”

                      I believe the retaliation is high time. Not everybody has the patience to layan munafik YYs who employ the Porky Principle as their principal weapon.

                      As for “angry”, actually not angry enough because the Malays have been too sabar for too long. You YYs have been allowed to get away with your biaDAP all this while because Ah Jib Gor is Moderation King.

                      re: “I do not agree with him on many issues, but it is no surprise when he said you ‘putar-belit’ and were ‘forked-tongue’.”

                      Tsk, tsk, tsk … throwing ad hominems … but you’re only really describing yourself again, and your adherence to the Porky Principle. The fact of the matter is the salutation for Allah is s.w.t.

                      You’ve shown YOUR putar-belit through your boast of “30,000 cases” / “30,000 [Google] entries” on “Allah saw” and your forked tongue by your many times kantoi when you pasted url links which you did not bother to check on their contents.

                      e.g.

                      First Google result on “Allah saw” search word:

                      Kulit Album Mizz Nina Tertera Allah S.A.W, Satu Kesilapan Yang Harus Segera Diperbaiki

                      “Namun kesalahan menggunakan “Allah S.A.W” harus diperbaiki dengan segera oleh Mizz Nina dan mereka yang terlibat dengan pembikinan albumnya. Seharusnya penggunaan yang sebenar ialah “Allah S.W.T” kerana “S.A.W” adalah untuk Nabi Muhammad.

                      kesilapan semudah ini seharusnya tidak berlaku.”

                      Of course the Google results show “Allah saw” – as above – but if one looked at the context in which “Allah saw” is quoted – it’s merely to point out that “Allah saw” usage is wrong.

                      null

                      But instead of admitting (like conceding Bak Kut Teh is pork), you “shifted the goalpost” and said that the Google search should be done on “Allah saw” but on the phrase “oleh Allah saw” when there is no rhyme nor reason to add “oleh” to the phrase being Googled.

                      Even the original dispute, i.e. over the chameleon identity of “AkuMelayu” – see his comment below – did not say “oleh Allah saw”. He commented: “… dia ingat Allah saw ber-etnik Melayu …”

                      Since ‘AkuMelayu’ did not say “oleh [Allah saw]”, for you to insist that the Google search term must be “oleh Allah saw” and not “allah saw” just shows who is putar-belit and forked tongue.

                      re: “Prove where did I say that ‘Allah SAW’ is a correct term. I merely said that there are also examples of that phrase being used in Malay-language sites online. Rightly or wrong, that is another matter.”

                      Alvin – Bak Kut Teh – not pork – not insulting lah – where got I use any harsh or rude words? See, I’m all smiles when I so very nicely invite you to buka puasa with BKT.

                      Munafiq !

                      re: “Yeah, right, “30,000 entries” just like the “40,000 Bangladeshis”.”
                      Sigh…

                      Porky Principle. Bak Kut Teh is not pork.

                      re: “… organising a dog-event is troublemaking – and many other examples”

                      Islamophobe.

                      re: “Essentially, anybody who does not submit to their rigid extreme ways and obey it without question, is a troublemaker. Who must be dealt with the policy of ‘pulangkan paku keras’.”

                      Moderation is for reasonable and rational people. Moderation is wasted on munafik YYs.

                      re: “And you cozy up with these people.”

                      Better than munafiks and YYs like you.

                      re: “The biggest problem to Umno does not come from Subang Jaya, Sabah, Sarawak, or some church in the Klang Valley. The biggest problem comes from within; from the rightist faction unwilling to adapt, to the clueless person running it (and the country).”

                      The biggest problem to Umno is if the clueless person running it still believes that the party’s opponents should be approached with “moderation”.

                    • 34. AC-DC  |  November 23, 2014 at 7:27 pm

                      “You’re describing yourself.
                      You lack valid points essentially, so you keep on jabbering about “shifting goalposts”. Your twisting yourself into knots over my ‘Christianity in South Korea’ mention is a case in point.”

                      No lah. You see, you are constantly changing the scope from Asia, to SE Asia, and back again to your convenience. And then you are jabbering and blabbering from your fat mouth accusing me of being an ‘Islamophobe’ because I mentioned the Indian subcontinent, which is part of Asia, as a counterpoint.

                      ““EVIDENCE” … yours lah.

                      Well then, why don’t you just demonstrate what you claim?

                      You had claimed – after Googling – that you “just provided evidence of over 30,000 cases where that phrase [Allah saw] was used in Malay-language blogs, social media, websites, and academic papers”.

                      And here is it:
                      http://postimg.org/image/4wb8bmom7/

                      “Let’s see your evidence from one academic paper that uses “Allah s.a.w.]”

                      https://www.academia.edu/3515448/Poligami_Perspektif_Islam_dan_Hukum_Positif

                      written by Mirza Buana. Who is a graduate student.

                      “You’ve shown YOUR putar-belit through your boast of “30,000 cases” / “30,000 [Google] entries” on “Allah saw” and your forked tongue by your many times kantoi when you pasted url links which you did not bother to check on their contents.”

                      But instead of admitting (like conceding Bak Kut Teh is pork), you “shifted the goalpost” and said that the Google search should be done on “Allah saw” but on the phrase “oleh Allah saw””

                      So, Helen Ang is accusing me of ‘putar-belit’ by claiming I googled “Allah Saw”, then changed it to “oleh Allah SAW”.

                      Lets look at my very first post on the issue that started this “debate”:

                      34. AC-DC | November 21, 2014 _______________________________
                      “I find it hard to believe that the Malaysiakini commenter using the moniker AkuMelayu-tetapi ABU jugak is really a Malay when he can so erroneously write “Allah saw” – see screenshot below.”

                      Out of curiosity, I googled “oleh allah saw” with the quotes so as to get results of the exact phrase.

                      There were over 35,000 results. Go on, try it yourself.

                      There must be a lot of Christian Chinese Evangelists masquerading as Malay Muslim tweeters, bloggers, webmasters, writers, academics, and e-ustazs.

                      Sorry Helen. Shifting goalposts to suit your fancy is your specialty, not mine. Even a frequent reader who is an opposition-critic has used ‘forked-tongue’ and ‘putar-belit’ on you.

                      “Tsk, tsk, tsk … throwing ad hominems … but you’re only really describing yourself again, and your adherence to the Porky Principle. The fact of the matter is the salutation for Allah is s.w.t.”

                      Allah SWT is the correct term. I know that. However, I merely pointed out examples of the ‘Allah’ being referred as ‘Allah SAW’. I did not say nor insist it was the correct salutation or otherwise. Read carefully, my original comment which I have copy and pasted above.

                      “when there is no rhyme nor reason to add “oleh” to the phrase being Googled.”
                      “Since ‘AkuMelayu’ did not say “oleh [Allah saw]“, for you to insist that the Google search term must be “oleh Allah saw” and not “allah saw” just shows who is putar-belit and forked tongue.”

                      Because ‘Allah Saw’ alone will return mixed results with ‘Muhammed Rasul Allah SAW‘ which refers to the prophet, not the deity.

                      Now if you add the preposition ‘oleh’ (from) to the search terms, you will get examples where the Allah is referred to as Allah SAW.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition

                      Rather similar results can be seen when you use other prepositions for the search term combinations:

                      untuk Allah SAW
                      dari Allah SAW

                      These are one of the methods used for advanced internet, database, or archive searching to filter out unrelated results. As an ex-journalist, you should know that.

                      “Munafiq !”
                      “Islamophobe.”

                      Hahaha. Helen is now bristling and name calling people and accusing them of doing things that she herself is doing, but is either too disingenuous, or too dense to see it.

                      “Moderation is for reasonable and rational people. Moderation is wasted on munafik YYs.”
                      “Better than munafiks and YYs like you.”

                      It is hypocritical (munafik) when Helen accuses a person of Islamophobia while she herself writes near-daily articles reeking of Christianophobia.

                      It is hypocritical (munafik) when Helen accuses someone of putar-belit when she herself twists, adds, and turns when the debate and facts is not in her favour.

                      It is hypocritical (munafik) when Helen acc… oh well, there are so many examples.

                      Anyway, nice to know that you cozy up with race-religious extremists. They need a useful idiot to complement that fellow in the defense university.

                      “The biggest problem to Umno is if the clueless person running it still believes that the party’s opponents should be approached with “moderation”.”

                      The clueless person running it at least has a tiny clue that it is not a good thing to alienate the Sabahans and Sarawakians, and alienate the remaining Indian and Chinese voters that still support him.

                      The clueless person running it at least knows that if that happens, East Malaysia calls the shots and his party risks becoming a minority party.

                    • 35. Helen Ang  |  November 23, 2014 at 8:12 pm

                      “No lah. You see, you are constantly changing the scope from Asia, to SE Asia, and back again to your convenience.”

                      What is your problem with my mentioning, on top of reviewing the overall Christianity situation in SE Asia, that South Korea – vis-a-vis the comparative Demography Maps 1910 & 2010 – is the Asian country most Christianized in the recent decades?

                      How can this be said to be “changing the scope” when you, on the other hand, demand that the topic be shifted, to Islam in the Indian sub-continent (as a counterpoint).

                      The longer you keep up this kiasuness, the more clearly you’re illustrating to my blog readership the Perpetual Hysteria of the oppo supporters.

                      re: “And then you are jabbering and blabbering from your fat mouth accusing me of being an ‘Islamophobe’ because I mentioned the Indian subcontinent, which is part of Asia, as a counterpoint.

                      My “fat mouth” (?) … tsk, tsk, tsk. Your gutter is showing.

                      re: “And here is it:
                      http://postimg.org/image/4wb8bmom7/

                      Oh, so somebody with the name “Jebon” (“pelajar mewah”) tweeting “Allah s.a.w” on Twitter is your evidence of the “30,000 cases/entries” turned up by Google search?

                      Yeah, 40,000 Bangladeshis.

                      re: “https://www.academia.edu/3515448/Poligami_Perspektif_Islam_dan_Hukum_Positif / written by Mirza Buana. Who is a graduate student.”

                      This Mirza person also wrote “Allah s.w.t.” If in one of my articles I typed Diana Sofia (when I meant Dyana Sofya in particular), it doesn’t mean that I got that DAP politician’s name correct.

                      You just can’t get away from the Porky Principle (Bak Kut Teh is not pork), can you, in your persistence to tegakkan benang basah?

                      re: “Out of curiosity, I googled “oleh allah saw” with the quotes so as to get results of the exact phrase. There were over 35,000 results. Go on, try it yourself.”

                      45,000 Bangladeshis.

                      re: “Sorry Helen. Shifting goalposts to suit your fancy is your specialty, not mine. Even a frequent reader who is an opposition-critic has used ‘forked-tongue’ and ‘putar-belit’ on you.”

                      You’re a practitioner of the Porky Principle. And if you want to latch on to the other commenter’s name-calling, that just makes you one of a pair with him and no more than that. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Neither does 200 Malaysiakini readers calling Syed Ali Alhabshee all kinds of names give their rant any validity.

                      re: “Allah SWT is the correct term. I know that.”

                      Oh, so now you know that. After “30,000 entries” … just like the Pakatan people slowly beginning to realise there were no 40,000 phantom voters.

                      You’re not guilty of doing an Alvin Tan (he was provocative). Your problem is putar-belit, in the shoes of the kiasu Chinese who defended Alvin by spinning that Bak Kut Teh is not pork but chicken, and that Alvin’s BKT was actually halal.

                      re: “However, I merely pointed out examples of the ‘Allah’ being referred as ‘Allah SAW’. I did not say nor insist it was the correct salutation or otherwise. Read carefully, my original comment which I have copy and pasted above.”

                      Porky Principle.

                      re: “Because ‘Allah Saw’ alone will return mixed results with ‘Muhammed Rasul Allah SAW‘ which refers to the prophet, not the deity.”

                      Porky Principle (2).

                      re: “Now if you add the preposition ‘oleh’ (from) to the search terms, you will get examples where the Allah is referred to as Allah SAW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition

                      Porky Principle (3).

                      re: “Rather similar results can be seen when you use other prepositions for the search term combinations: untuk Allah SAW / dari Allah SAWW. These are one of the methods used for advanced internet, database, or archive searching to filter out unrelated results. As an ex-journalist, you should know that.”

                      Porky Principle (4).

                      re: “Hahaha. Helen is now bristling and name calling people and accusing them of doing things that she herself is doing, but is either too disingenuous, or too dense to see it.”

                      If “Munafiq” and “Islamophobe” correctly describe you, I don’t see why not (just as other people can be described “maverick” or “old war horses”.

                      re: “It is hypocritical (munafik) when Helen accuses a person of Islamophobia while she herself writes near-daily articles reeking of Christianophobia.”

                      You may believe in the adage “Going on the offence is the best form of defence” but accusing me of Christianophobia will not in any way mitigate your Islamophobia.

                      re: “It is hypocritical (munafik) when Helen accuses someone of putar-belit when she herself twists, adds, and turns when the debate and facts is not in her favour.”

                      Porky Principle, QED (quod erat demonstrandum).

                      re: “Anyway, nice to know that you cozy up with race-religious extremists. They need a useful idiot to complement that fellow in the defense university.”

                      Blog readers please take note. AC-DC claims that you all are “race-religious extremists”.

                      re: “The clueless person running it at least has a tiny clue that it is not a good thing to alienate the Sabahans and Sarawakians, and alienate the remaining Indian and Chinese voters that still support him.”

                      The clueless person should improve his math.

                      They are “only nine percent” of the population, what, compared to the 61.3 percent Malaysia Muslim population which is alienated by Umno allowing munafik YYs to menginjak-injak maruah Islam.

                      As for the remaining Chinese voters, we know that the munafik YYs are the bigger menace and if BN falls, then the DAP will be leading the next federal government. The BN is alienating the 10 percent Chinese voters more by its lembik-ness than if it were to adopt a tough stance against the makhluk-makhluk perosak.

                      re: “The clueless person running it at least knows that if that happens, East Malaysia calls the shots and his party risks becoming a minority party.”

                      How can Umno with 88 seats be a minority party? It is the BN that is struggling and mostly because MCA stabbed the coalition in the back.

                    • 36. AC-DC  |  November 23, 2014 at 9:46 pm

                      “What is your problem with my mentioning, on top of reviewing the overall Christianity situation in SE Asia, that South Korea – vis-a-vis the comparative Demography Maps 1910 & 2010 – is the Asian country most Christianized in the recent decades?”

                      No problem at all. I have no problem with you mentioning South Korea, Asia Pacific, Asia, and saying that Christianity is not indigeneous to Asia and it was brought in through colonisation. Or even devoting a third of your article to mention Christianity in Asia.

                      What I do have a problem is when a valid counterpoint is provided, you putar belit to change the scope in response… “derr, no I was talking about SE Asia, I think, even though I was babbling about Asia for one-thirds of my article…”

                      “How can this be said to be “changing the scope” when you, on the other hand, demand that the topic be shifted, to Islam in the Indian sub-continent (as a counterpoint).”

                      I gave an example of another non-indigeneous religion spread through colonialism in Asia.

                      “re: “https://www.academia.edu/3515448/Poligami_Perspektif_Islam_dan_Hukum_Positif / written by Mirza Buana. Who is a graduate student.”

                      This Mirza person also wrote “Allah s.w.t.” If in one of my articles I typed Diana Sofia (when I meant Dyana Sofya in particular), it doesn’t mean that I got that DAP politician’s name correct.”

                      Yes she did, plus the typo ‘Allah SAW’.

                      If you mistakenly typed ‘Diana Sofia’ instead of ‘Dyana Sofya’, and then someone alleges that you are a man because no real woman will spell the name as ‘Diana Sofia’, that is a flimsy allegation, is it not?

                      re: “However, I merely pointed out examples of the ‘Allah’ being referred as ‘Allah SAW’. I did not say nor insist it was the correct salutation or otherwise. Read carefully, my original comment which I have copy and pasted above.”

                      Porky Principle. Translation: Helen Ang refuses to look at the original comment as she does not wish to realise that her disingeneousness has been revealed

                      re: “Because ‘Allah Saw’ alone will return mixed results with ‘Muhammed Rasul Allah SAW‘ which refers to the prophet, not the deity.”

                      Porky Principle (2) Translation: Helen Ang refuses to look at the original comment as she does not wish to realise that her disingeneousness has been revealed<

                      re: “Now if you add the preposition ‘oleh’ (from) to the search terms, you will get examples where the Allah is referred to as Allah SAW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition”

                      Porky Principle (3) Translation: Helen Ang now covers her ears and sings 'lalalala' like a little kid who insists 2 plus 2 equals 5, and resorts to repetitive mindless name calling, just like repetitive mindless articles about Hannah Yeoh

                      re: “Rather similar results can be seen when you use other prepositions for the search term combinations: untuk Allah SAW / dari Allah SAWW. These are one of the methods used for advanced internet, database, or archive searching to filter out unrelated results. As an ex-journalist, you should know that.”

                      Porky Principle (4). Translation: Helen Ang can only resort to name calling as usual at this point…

                      "You may believe in the adage “Going on the offence is the best form of defence” but accusing me of Christianophobia will not in any way mitigate your Islamophobia."

                      Translation: If Helen has painted herself into a corner, she will start labelling the other side as islamophobe, porky, evangelista, etc.

                      "They are “only nine percent” of the population, what, compared to the 61.3 percent Malaysia Muslim population which is alienated by Umno allowing munafik YYs to menginjak-injak maruah Islam."

                      How many Parliament seats in Sabah and Sarawak? What is the percentage of these seats to the total seats?

                      "As for the remaining Chinese voters, we know that the munafik YYs are the bigger menace and if BN falls, then the DAP will be leading the next federal government. The BN is alienating the 10 percent Chinese voters more by its lembik-ness than if it were to adopt a tough stance against the makhluk-makhluk perosak."

                      Actually, the 10 percent consists of moderates such as Mr. Wong Chun Wai, Mr. Jocelyn, and Mr. Tai Zee Kin. I know the latter, and have met him once.

                      "How can Umno with 88 seats be a minority party? It is the BN that is struggling and mostly because MCA stabbed the coalition in the back."

                      If it alienates the other component parties and thinks it can do it alone. Besides, Umno Sabah is quite different from the Umno across the sea.

                    • 37. Helen Ang  |  November 23, 2014 at 10:28 pm

                      re: “What I do have a problem is when a valid counterpoint is provided, you putar belit to change the scope in response… “derr, no I was talking about SE Asia, I think, even though I was babbling about Asia for one-thirds of my article…”

                      Of course my focus is on SE Asia since I provided data sets for the 11 SE Asian countries and my micro focus on S’pore. I did not include Christianity in Tibet, Turkmenistan etc because Christianity in those countries is negligible.

                      However since I mention South Korea and China in passing, then I have to refer “Asia” as both these countries are not within the SE Asian region.

                      If you wish to provide a counterpoint of the “brutally” (your word) spread Islam in the Indian sub-continent because you’re an Islamaphobe, that’s your freedom of expression. However to twist pretzels over my geographical coverage is simply illustrating your ultra kiasuness.

                      re: “I gave an example of another non-indigeneous religion spread through colonialism in Asia.”

                      Your example is fine with me. You can have your say in the Comments section.

                      What you cannot do is dictate the scope of my article and then concoct all kinds of false twists about my chosen content. I wrote about the spread of Christianity. Unlike you, I do not have Islamophobia.

                      re: “Yes she did, plus the typo ‘Allah SAW’.”

                      Oh, so now you concede that a portion of the “Allah s.a.w.” results are actually typos on the part of the writer(s).

                      re: “If you mistakenly typed ‘Diana Sofia’ instead of ‘Dyana Sofya’, and then someone alleges that you are a man because no real woman will spell the name as ‘Diana Sofia’, that is a flimsy allegation, is it not?”

                      What you say just indicates that you fit the profile of one of my polls about YYs, i.e. “perpetually hysterical”.

                      re: “Porky Principle. Translation: Helen Ang refuses to look at the original comment as she does not wish to realise that her disingeneousness has been revealed”.

                      Here we go, folks … AC-DC’s original 40,000 Bangladeshis statement after consulting Google search:

                      “I just provided evidence of over 30,000 cases where that phrase was used in Malay-language blogs, social media, websites, and academic papers.”

                      re: “Because ‘Allah Saw’ alone will return mixed results with ‘Muhammed Rasul Allah SAW‘ which refers to the prophet, not the deity.” / “Porky Principle (2) Translation: Helen Ang refuses to look at the original comment as she does not wish to realise that her disingeneousness has been revealed”

                      AC-DC is giving an example of how the YYs not only insist that Bak Kut Teh is chicken but that the meat is halal certified.

                      re: “Now if you add the preposition ‘oleh’ (from) to the search terms, you will get examples where the Allah is referred to as Allah SAW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition” / “Porky Principle (3) Translation: Helen Ang now covers her ears and sings ‘lalalala’ like a little kid who insists 2 plus 2 equals 5, and resorts to repetitive mindless name calling, just like repetitive mindless articles about Hannah Yeoh”

                      AC-DC is providing you all a Show & Tell of the self-delusional perpetual hysteria that is the main characteristic of his What-Kind-of-People.

                      re: “Rather similar results can be seen when you use other prepositions for the search term combinations: untuk Allah SAW / dari Allah SAWW. These are one of the methods used for advanced internet, database, or archive searching to filter out unrelated results. As an ex-journalist, you should know that.” / Porky Principle (4) Translation: Helen Ang can only resort to name calling as usual at this point…

                      Here AC-DC is showing how the YYs not only insist that Bak Kut Teh is chicken but some will go to the extent of claiming that Alvivi’s BKT was “organic vegetarian”.

                      re: “Translation: If Helen has painted herself into a corner, she will start labelling the other side as islamophobe, porky, evangelista, etc.”

                      Helen’s blog is very factual. Regular readers know this. When Helen says that AC-DC is an Islamophobe, she is merely being factual. As for “evangelista”, it is the cult deviation of Christianity just like some sects have similarly deviated from Islam (or Buddhism).

                      As for “Porky”, the Principle best describes those YYs who spin that the Alvivi Bak Kut Teh is not “pork”.

                      re: “How many Parliament seats in Sabah and Sarawak? What is the percentage of these seats to the total seats?”

                      Aaaah, the DAP strategy to incite the natives and instigate the Christians. All for the 3Gs: Gold, Self-Glory and Greedy by abusing the Gospel.

                      re: “Actually, the 10 percent consists of moderates such as Mr. Wong Chun Wai, Mr. Jocelyn, and Mr. Tai Zee Kin. I know the latter, and have met him once.”

                      Joceline is Ms.

                      If you say that Wong Chun Wai is a “moderate”, then it’s proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no hope and no cure for you.

                      re: “If it alienates the other component parties and thinks it can do it alone. Besides, Umno Sabah is quite different from the Umno across the sea.”

                      Three years is a long time in politics and I can’t guarantee Umno’s future performance. Tun and Muhyiddin appear to think that BN might conceivably lose GE14.

                      However based on the results of the last election, Umno + PBB (just these two Bumiputera-Islam parties alone) plus another handful of seats – say if Umno had contested Alor Setar instead of allowing MCA to burn the seat – are able to obtain a simple majority.

                      Bottomline: Umno can go it alone. It’s achievable for Umno to form the federal government on its own.

                    • 38. Helen Ang  |  November 24, 2014 at 12:57 am

                      NOTE:

                      I did not say nor express myself in this manner: “derr, no I was talking about SE Asia, I think, even though I was babbling about Asia for one-thirds of my article…”

                      The above is the Porky Principled AC-DC putting words in my mouth.

      • 39. Keris  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:08 pm

        re: “When the Roman emperor Constantine became a Christian, that was when Christendom – in a temporal sense – was born and eventually grew to be the world’s biggest religion.”

        The Roman Catholic Church was founded on two false premises concerning:
        (1) the nature of the essence of the Creator God as consisting of three species – Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
        (2) the nature of human salvation for the afterlife – that a man’s sins can be wiped out by Jesus’ sacrificial blood as the atonement of God Himself for His creatures.

        Reply
        • 40. msleepyhead  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:28 pm

          Try saying this in the Vatican or tak yah gi jauh pun, kat Philippines je. Amacam ada berani?

          It’s always funny how one religion tries to call out the the other.

          Reply
          • 41. Keris  |  November 21, 2014 at 12:59 am

            Paul was an adversary to Peter whose main mission was to proselytize the hellenized Jews in allegiance to the Judaeo-Christians of the Church of Jerusalem led by the Patriarch James the Righteous, brother of Jesus the Messiah. They were the Evyonim (the poor ones) disciples of Jesus, being true to the law of Moses and teaching the renewal of man’s spiritual life.

            Muslims are saying that as holders of the Quran they are the rightful heirs of the lineage of Jesus unitarian teachings that was propagated by his direct apostles (hawariyun). Indeed, it is Jesus the Messiah who will someday descend from the heavens to earth in Damascus escorted by the holy angels and he shall slay the Anti-Christ (Dajjal al-Masehi) and thereafter reign over the world in Justice and Compassion.

            Deviant muslims like the Islamic State’s army of killers and rapists who have promised to blow up the Kaabah when they conquer Saudi Arabia had been foretold by the blessed Prophet s.a.w. They herald the arrival of Dajjal the satanic messiah.

            Towards these end times, we believe that Dajjal is attempting to mess up the Muslims’ understanding of and submission to Allah Almighty and Transcendant as he vies to overpower the world with his dark occult forces. Pauline Christianity had once demonized the unitarian followers of Jesus the Messiah prior to the arrival of the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad – peace and blessings be upon him – in the 7th century A.D. Some of these radical “Trinitarian Christians” seem to be replaying ancient animosities against the perennial monotheists here in Malaysia today.

            Kenapa kamu tidak memeriksa dirimu sendiri? Orang Melayu ikut wasiat tradisional dituntuti supaya berusaha untuk kenal diri sendiri demi mengenal Tuhan Pencipta dan Pembela kita sekalian. Maka mendekatilah diri dengan ilmu dan kasih sayang kepada Nya Ar Rahman Ar Rahim.

            Reply
          • 42. Abdullah  |  November 21, 2014 at 7:06 am

            Sepuluh ayat yang awal dalam surah “Al-Kahfi” adalah ayat pelindung daripada “Fitnah al-Dajjal” pada akhir zaman ini. Si Dajjal akan bermaharajalela atas akal dan hati manusia sedunia dengan penyelewengannya terhadap Allah Subhanahu wa Ta ‘Ala:

            Dengan Nama Allah Maha Penyayang & Maha Pengasih

            [1] Segala puji terentu bagi Allah yang telah menurunkan kepada hambaNya (Muhammad), Kitab suci Al-Quran, dan tidak menjadikan padanya sesuatu yang bengkok (terpesong):
            [2] (Bahkan keadaannya) tetap benar lagi menjadi pengawas; turunnya Al-Quran untuk memberi amaran (kepada orang-orang yang ingkar) dengan azab yang seberat-beratnya dari sisi Allah, dan memberi berita gembira kepada orang-orang yang beriman yang mengerjakan amalan soleh, bahawa mereka akan beroleh balasan yang baik.
            [3] Mereka tinggal tetap dalam (balasan yang baik) itu selama-lamanya.

            > [4] Dan juga Al-Quran itu memberi amaran kepada orang-orang yang berkata: “Allah mempunyai Anak”.
            > [5] (Sebenarnya) mereka tiada mempunyai sebarang pengetahuan mengenainya, dan tiada juga bagi datuk nenek mereka; Besar sungguh perkataan Syirik yang keluar dari mulut mereka; mereka hanya mengatakan perkara yang Dusta.
            > [6] Maka jangan-jangan pula engkau (wahai Muhammad), membinasakan dirimu disebabkan menanggung dukacita terhadap kesan-kesan perbuatan buruk mereka, jika mereka enggan beriman kepada keterangan Al-Quran ini.

            [7] Sesungguhnya Kami telah jadikan apa yang ada di muka bumi sebagai perhiasan baginya, kerana kami hendak menguji mereka, siapakah di antaranya yang lebih baik amalnya.
            [8] Dan sesungguhnya Kami akan jadikan apa yang ada di bumi itu (punah-ranah) sebagai tanah yang tandus.
            [9] Adakah engkau menyangka (wahai Muhammad), bahawa kisah “Ashaabul Kahfi” dan “Ar-Raqiim” itu sahaja yang menakjubkan di antara tanda-tanda yang membuktikan kekuasaan Kami?
            [10] (Ingatkanlah peristiwa) ketika serombongan orang-orang muda pergi ke gua, lalu mereka berdoa: “Wahai Tuhan kami! Kurniakanlah kami rahmat dari sisiMu, dan berilah kemudahan-kemudahan serta pimpinan kepada kami untuk keselamatan ugama kami”.

            Reply
  • 43. ED  |  November 20, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Ms H. There are Christians and Christians. There are some crazy ones who aped those in the Deep South of the United States and those of the wider and sensible World of Christianity like the Mayor or Jakarta.

    Reply
    • 44. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 7:39 pm

      re: “There are some crazy ones who aped those in the Deep South of the United States”

      Becoming Hannah could well be their “How to” manual.

      Reply
      • 45. ED  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:38 pm

        Ms H. Some of the new local types are of the ‘ rice ‘ Christians variety. But the majority are sensible and normal.

        Reply
        • 46. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:58 pm

          re: “the majority are sensible and normal”

          If they are, then they’re the silent majority who have allowed the aggressive and vocal minority (DAP evangelistas) to define the image of Malaysian Christians.

          Reply
          • 47. msleepyhead  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:29 pm

            They’re the equivalents of the Ismas and Perkasas.

            Reply
          • 48. Keris  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:30 pm

            Yes, and I would say the same about the radical Islamists and the petrodollar funded Saudi-Wahhabi propaganda machinery that has “revamped” the idea of the Islamic nation in the 20th century.

            Like one Sufi sheikh has stated: “Wherever the wahhabi ideologues set foot in, the society starts turning to garbage.”

            And the bad joke is that Saudi Arabia and Israel get along quite well with one another and certainly with the American neocon Christians! It is very much a war-mongering alliance of world domination by a very powerful and cunning minority of international elites.

            Reply
          • 49. ED  |  November 21, 2014 at 10:41 am

            Ms H. The sudden exploitastion by these so called ‘rice Christian’ types by strumming the heart strings of the normal and the innocent is a SIN which they have deliberately created. How can we believe this lot of jumpin and singin beans when THEY SUCCUMB TO BKT AND PRADA HANDBAGS?

            At best, we can call them fakes like those very rich Opposition leaders. I believe these ordinary folks when the go on 100 day hunger strikes, wear loin cloths and lie on beds of nails. The only difference between them and us here is they have skins as thick as leather whereas we are normal.

            See the absurd Bersih walkabouts created by a female lawyer who had a set of two tiny rooms in my friend’s building. Now, she is ennobled and lauded the World over by the exploitation of the stupid Chinamen and women. And the Bersih walkabouts were only check in for 3 hours. See the Hong Kong folks – they went on for 2 months!

            Do not be taken up by fakery of the Malaysian kind!

            Reply
  • 50. grandmarquis  |  November 20, 2014 at 7:37 pm

    The reality is that most of the “white” Christians have left Christianity. In country like Australia (and I believe in most Europe as well), they left Christian in name, but in reality they are atheist, or simply do not believe in any religion.

    It is only in the far east, especially they gained new converts

    Reply
    • 51. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 7:44 pm

      re: “It is only in the far east, especially they gained new converts”

      China is a blue ocean. One billion “lost souls” ripe to be City Harvested …

      I believe the Beijing authorities will take strict action (just like the Tokugawa shogunate did) if the evangelical movement passes a tipping point.

      It is only Najib Razak that is paling tidak apa.

      null

      Reply
  • 52. orangkampung  |  November 20, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    There’s a difference between Indonesia and Malaysia in that Indonesia is a distinct secular state with about 90% of its population embracing Islam. Malaysia on the other hand has Islam as its constitutional religion, which whether you like it or not makes this an Islamic country and the Muslims are very protective of this.

    There’s a certain hegemony in Indonesia – just look at the language they speak, the culture they embrace and the way they dress. You can’t tell their religion just from looking at an Indonesian. But here, when you are introduced to someone new, you can actually tell (and will be almost 100% correct) what race and religion that person is.

    When we do not even speak one national language, it is difficult to accept someone who is considered an outsider to lead. So let me teach you dapsters, the main thing you need to do to gain the trust of the majority malays is speak bahasa melayu.

    Reply
    • 53. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 8:34 pm

      re: “But here, when you are introduced to someone new, you can actually tell (and will be almost 100% correct) what race and religion that person is.”

      Well, there’s 0.01 percent MUNAFIK exception, i.e. the What-Kind-of-People who menyamar with online susumpah identity such as “AkuMelayu tapi ABU jugak” but proceed to misapply “s.a.w” to Allah (instead of “s.w.t.” correctly).

      null

      Reply
  • 54. norman fernandez  |  November 20, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    As a long time observer of Indonesian politics, married to an Indonesian-Catholic and also being a regular visitor to Indonesia, there has been a complete transformation in Indonesia since the fall of Soeharto.

    Today, the average Indonesian is more concerned about the country than the colour of the skin or religion of their politician. While there are groups like Front Pembebasan Islam, most Indonesians dismiss them as mere rable rousers and insignificant trouble makers whose main source of income from from protection money extracted from businesses involved in vice. Pay them, and they let you carry on. You only need to go to Jakarta and witness the clubs and bars which will make places in Thailand look like sanitised snooker parlour. Now, why Jakartans or orang Betawi are prepared to give Basuki or otherwise known as Ahok a chance is that he has proven in a short time to be an honest, tireless, straight-talking, no nonsence and effective politician. He is unlike all the former politicians. Yes, he is a Chinese, yes he is a Christian but the people see in him a true good muslim which other muslim politicians have failed to do. In fact, even the big Muslim organisation like Muhamadiah or Nardiatul Ulema hardly has any objection.

    If he manages Jakarta well, then believe me in the new Indonesia people will encourage, support and even vote for him if he ever decides to run for presidency, which I believe he harbours such an intention. Nevertheless, he need to be a little less brash and be a little more willing to act as a listener and not always as the enforcer. He must have a little bit of Jokowi in him.

    Indonesia post Soeharto, people are confident in the own culture and religion and all religions can co-exist in peace. Remember, Jokowi in his innaguration speech, towards the end even recited a Hindu prayer, acknowledging the Hindus of Bali. If Basuki becomes the president, there is definitely not going to be a mass conversion to Christianity going to take place. Here is a country, where most people say, one religion is between him and God. If one converts from Christianity to Islam or vice-versa, or even marry without converting, religion remains a private. No one is going to scream baying for their blood. Just watch the many popular artiste converting to Christianity or Islam vice versa and hardly anyone bats an eyelid.

    If the people of Jakarta are prepared to accept a Christian as their governor, the people of Manado where there is a large Christian majority voted a Muslim as their mayor then Indonesia can go on to be a great country and someday even surpasing Malaysia. Afterall, I have been watching the transformation of Indonesia since 1997.

    Indonesia will still remain a progressive, liberal Muslim majority country nevermind the lunatic minority. So, my dear Helen as far as Indonesia is concerned, I respect your analysis but not necessarily can agree.

    Reply
    • 55. jentayu  |  November 21, 2014 at 11:17 am

      point is we, muslim in Malaysia, DO NOT WANT to follow the path of Indonesia. we DO NOT WANT to separate religion and the government administration. why is it so hard for you Christian lot to grasp this?

      islam is here to stay and influence the social, politic and economy aspect. being a muslim and stay true to our roots does not hinder us from progressiveness.

      last time I check a malay liberal who thinks he’s smarter than an ordinary traditional malay muslim has caused a long haul budget airline quite severe financial turmoil. shows that takdela bagus sangat mamat liberal and western wannabe ni. they only good at projecting better image for themselves and at the same time make others look bad.

      better you preach your beloved Christian fellow Hannah Yeoh not to mix and preach Christian value in her twitter and relate it with the current administration before preaching to the muslim masses.

      Reply
      • 56. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 3:56 pm

        Yep, ikut buta suruhan para Ostat wa’al-Retard. Kembalikan Malaysia kepada Zaman Gelap, dapat Premium Membership dalam Club of Doom.

        Reply
        • 57. islam1st  |  November 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm

          AC-DC are you now saying Islam sebagai Agama Persekutuan akan bawa Malaysia kepada Zaman Gelap dan Ustaz-Ustaz Islam semuanya retard? Dan orang-orang Islam akan masuk keahlian premium Club of Doom?

          Ye ke AC-DC?

          Reply
          • 58. anonymous  |  November 21, 2014 at 5:35 pm

            Must be an avid reader of SAA’s blog.

            Reply
          • 59. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 5:56 pm

            What I am saying my friend, is that religion mixed into government policy and administration only brings the country into backwardness.

            Reply
            • 60. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 6:10 pm

              Did you trying saying that to Lim Guan Eng when he declared that he was administering Penang according to the Islamic model of Saidina Umar Abdul Aziz’s caliphate?

              Or when Hannah Yeoh gave her ‘Righteousness exalts a nation’ (phrase from Biblical verse) ceramah in DUMC (church) about the Christian foundation in politics?

              Reply
              • 61. islam1st  |  November 21, 2014 at 6:14 pm

                Yup Helen, I believes he just did!

                Reply
              • 62. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 6:32 pm

                Selangor ada tukar undang-undang negeri ke untuk mengikuti hukum Bible?

                Penang ada tubuhkan Supreme Council of Mullah, Ayatollah, Monk, and Bishops ke? Ada tukar Perlembagaan Negeri untuk berlandaskan Bible, AlQuran, atau Bhaghavad Gita ke?

                Reply
                • 63. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 7:43 pm

                  You wrote: “What I am saying my friend, is that religion mixed into government policy and administration only brings the country into backwardness.”

                  So when LGE declares that he’s basing his state administration on the Islamic caliphate of Saidina Umar Abdul Aziz, isn’t that “religion mixed into government policy and administration”?

                  Or do you have one set of standards for Umno and a different set for the evangelical DAP?

                  Reply
            • 64. Rai  |  November 24, 2014 at 1:40 pm

              Christians will have this opinion, not Muslims.

              Reply
        • 65. jentayu  |  November 21, 2014 at 8:30 pm

          Itu ko kena tgk kawan2 ko dlm pas. Itula suruhan buta. Retard-head!

          Reply
  • 66. AC-DC  |  November 20, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    “Christianity is a religion spread by the white man. So how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian? After all, Christianity is not indigenous to this region.”

    So is Islam. It is not indigenous to Asia. It came from an area a few hundred miles away from where Christianity and Judaism began.

    “If Japan had not taken the bold and decisive step to totally ban Christianity in the late 1500s and early 1600s – read my posting earlier this morning – she would have suffered the same fate as the Philippines.”

    South Korea did not ban Christianity, and today she enjoys much higher living standards than her sibling to the north. South Korea’s exports are well known around the world; from KPop, to Samsung smartphones.

    Reply
    • 67. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:08 pm

      Okay, so Islam was born in Arabia and made its way here via trade and traders from the Indian subcontinent.

      Christianity was imposed on the subjugated Asian peoples by the Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish and British (essentially European) colonial masters.

      The difference is this. Islam was embraced by the indigenous Malays – I’m referring to Tanah Melayu – in the 1300s, with the Batu Bersurat Terengganu (1303 CE) as our date marker.

      Evangelical Christianity is being embraced by the Singaporeans and Chinese in Malaysia. City Harvest Church was founded in 1989 (i.e. 25 years) ago.

      To return to my original question: “So how did such a large part of the Asian continent, where people mostly have ‘yellow’ or ‘brown’ skin, manage to become so Christian?”

      You could do a similar calculation for Islam using the same data set which I used for Christianity. Out of the 11 South East Asian countries, the Muslim ones are Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei.

      Islam was already entrenched in Brunei by the time of its third Sultan, Sharif Ali (1425-1432) who was contemporaneous with the Malaccan Sultanate. It took 600-700 years of development for Islam to gain its firm hold over Malaysia (Indonesia and Brunei).

      How did evangelical Christianity become so widespread in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia merely over the last 30-odd years?

      Reply
      • 68. Helen Ang  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:09 pm

        To add:

        “Islam was embraced by the indigenous Malays”

        City Harvest evangelism is being embraced by Chinese who are not indigenous to this region.

        Reply
        • 69. kampong lad  |  November 20, 2014 at 11:29 pm

          kristianiti dah jadi trend orang muda. they re-package it perfectly to suit the needs of orang muda. it’s a quality product meaning fulfilling each other’s requirement. di indonesia kecuali wilayah aceh, tidak ada mahkamah syariah, cuma mahkamah keluarga islam & tidak ada mat2 skodeng.

          Reply
      • 70. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 12:50 pm

        “Christianity was imposed on the subjugated Asian peoples by the Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish and British (essentially European) colonial masters.”

        So was Islam, in the Indian subcontinent. The Muslims invaded westward and colonised the Hindu kingdoms and territories, often brutally. That is why there is a serious Hindu-Muslim rivalry in India until today.

        “The difference is this. Islam was embraced by the indigenous Malays – I’m referring to Tanah Melayu – in the 1300s, with the Batu Bersurat Terengganu (1303 CE) as our date marker.
        City Harvest evangelism is being embraced by Chinese who are not indigenous to this region. (added)”

        The largest evangelical denomination in Malaysia is the Sidang Injil Borneo. The majority of its followers are indigenous Sabahans and Sarawakians.

        The majority of Christians in Malaysia overall are indigenous ethnicities.

        “Out of the 11 South East Asian countries, the Muslim ones are Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei.
        Islam was already entrenched in Brunei by the time of its third Sultan, Sharif Ali (1425-1432) who was contemporaneous with the Malaccan Sultanate. It took 600-700 years of development for Islam to gain its firm hold over Malaysia (Indonesia and Brunei).

        How did evangelical Christianity become so widespread in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia merely over the last 30-odd years?”

        Communication and transportation. In the days of Kesultanan Melaka there was no Streamyx, telephone, radio RTM, Lion Air, AirAsia, MAS, cars, roads and trains. Travel was perilous. Your expedition of Muslim preachers sent to hopefully convert the Raja could be waylaid by pirates as they crossed the Selat Melaka. Reaching the Orang Asli village to convert or enslave them was difficult as your party had to cross rivers and jungles, and deal with a few tigers on the way.

        Today, religious tracts, sermons, kuthbah, etc. can be spread by radio, TV, Youtube, emails, internet message boards, and streaming podcast.

        It did not take 600 years for Islam to dominate Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei. By the 1500s, these regions were mostly controlled by Muslim Sultanates.

        Reply
        • 71. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm

          re: “So was Islam, in the Indian subcontinent. The Muslims invaded westward and colonised the Hindu kingdoms and territories, often brutally.”

          That was the Indian subcontinent. Alam Melayu was different. They did not fight wars and conquer the negeri-negeri Melayu to impose Islam. The Islam of the Malays was brought by the traders.

          re: SIB – indigenous Sabahans and Sarawakians.

          Maybe so, but the City Harvest Church was founded by a Chinese dude in S’pore and CHC opened its branches in Subang Jaya, Georgetown and other Chinese-dominated areas.

          re: “The majority of Christians in Malaysia overall are indigenous ethnicities.”

          The ones in the peninsula are Chinese and Indians and of course the ethnically cleansed Anak Bangsa Malaysia.

          re: “How did evangelical Christianity become so widespread in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia merely over the last 30-odd years?” / Your reply: “Communication and transportation. In the days of Kesultanan Melaka there was no Streamyx, telephone, radio RTM, Lion Air, AirAsia, MAS, cars, roads and trains.”

          Okay, I agree with you. I hope the Malay readership of this blog will take note.

          re: “Today, religious tracts, sermons, kuthbah, etc. can be spread by radio, TV, Youtube, emails, internet message boards, and streaming podcast.”

          Okay again. The Malays should realise this and be afraid, very afraid that their flock are so easily reached via digital technology.

          re: “It did not take 600 years for Islam to dominate Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei. By the 1500s, these regions were mostly controlled by Muslim Sultanates.”

          Wow, AC-DC is on a hattrick! Malay readers, you have been warned – It didn’t take Islam all that long to dominate Nusantara even in the medieval 1400s when we didn’t have all this canggih communications technology.

          Today, with the evangelistas’ sophistry and savvy, Christianity will dominate the land in no time – this projection is applying AC-DC’s logic on the basis of missionary success as he’s decribed, i.e. communication and transportation – Streamyx, telephone, radio, Youtube, emails, internet message boards, streaming podcast, Lion Air, AirAsia, MAS, cars, roads and trains …

          And may I add: Zumba, zumba.

          Reply
          • 72. AC-DC  |  November 21, 2014 at 4:26 pm

            “That was the Indian subcontinent. Alam Melayu was different. They did not fight wars and conquer the negeri-negeri Melayu to impose Islam. The Islam of the Malays was brought by the traders.”

            You said earlier in a reply that “Christianity was imposed on the subjugated Asian peoples by the Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish and British (essentially European) colonial masters”.

            In the article above written by you, you included the Far East and other regions of Asia.

            So lets stick to the scope of the article which covers Asia. As history tells us, the spread of Islam in the Indian subcontinent was anything but peaceful.

            “Maybe so, but the City Harvest Church was founded by a Chinese dude in S’pore and CHC opened its branches in Subang Jaya, Georgetown and other Chinese-dominated areas.”

            How many members of City Harvest Church are there compared to the Sidang Injil Borneo? What is the proportion of CHC adherents compared to the total number of Christians in Malaysia?

            “The ones in the peninsula are Chinese and Indians and of course the ethnically cleansed Anak Bangsa Malaysia.”

            But overall, they make up a minority of the Christian population in Malaysia.

            “Okay again. The Malays should realise this and be afraid, very afraid that their flock are so easily reached via digital technology.”

            “Malay readers, you have been warned – It didn’t take Islam all that long to dominate Nusantara even in the medieval 1400s when we didn’t have all this canggih communications technology.

            Today, with the evangelistas’ sophistry and savvy, Christianity will dominate the land in no time”

            Apart from unfounded hyperbole, do you have any evidence that Malaysia will become a Christian nation? I do not see masses of Malaysian Muslims defecting to Christianity either in person or online.

            Instead we see Malaysian Muslims being influenced by ISIS through digital techonology, and buying one-way tickets to die in the Syrian deserts.

            Reply
    • 73. C72  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:49 pm

      The rise of Christianity in Korea has its roots in USA support post-war. One can even argue that Koreans have a love-hate relationship with their former colonial masters, the Japanese in that they are subconsciously rejecting the pro-Shinto/Buddhism culture (Bonn shamanism being the Korean equivalent of Shinto) in order to reinvent themselves in their path towards development.

      I don’t think Christianity is the driving force of their success, it is a by-product; a symptom that arises from the Korean culture change towards modern materialism and ignoring the philosophical tenets of their original culture, now practising only the outward rituals.

      (Eh, did I just describe us Malaysian Chinese as well?!)

      Reply
    • 74. jentayu  |  November 21, 2014 at 11:04 am

      philipines embraced Christianity but err what happened to that country? what kind of logic is this?

      Reply
  • 75. anonymous  |  November 20, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    He became governor just because Jokowi who promised he would not run for president before finishing his term as governor, ran for president.
    Makes me wonder if Anwar Ibrahim was Pakatan’s choice for PM, who are their choice of DPM who will succeed him if something happens to Anwar.

    Reply
  • 76. Isma  |  November 21, 2014 at 12:37 am

    [comment deleted]

    Your comment can pass moderation but I’m not allowing through the moniker you choose to kebas.

    You don’t have your own name meh that you need to continually hijack Isma’s?

    Reply
    • 77. Vina  |  May 14, 2016 at 9:42 pm

      I’m sorry who’s Isma? I don’t hijacking somenone.. sorry if there is some misunderstanding

      Reply
  • 78. rossab  |  November 21, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Present christianity promotes liberalisme, u can drink can gamble, free sex lgbt and whatnot so this definately attract youngsters yang tau nak seronok. Freedom to doom.

    We Muslims believe that ISLAM starts from Nabi Adam and followers of all prophets of that time after Adam. those who do not follow the prophet after are no more Muslims and prophet MOHAMMAD SAW is the last prophet.

    Just imagine when Nabi ISA comes the present christians are going to rush to him calling Jesus Jesus our lord, cause their prophets name is Jesus but Nabi Isa is going to ignore them. He will be thinking who the heck are these people calling out to.

    Reply
    • 79. Helen Ang  |  November 21, 2014 at 2:54 pm

      His name was Yeshua.

      Reply
    • 80. Vina  |  May 14, 2016 at 9:31 pm

      Please be careful before you say something. Do some research at least. You clearly wrote “Present christianity promotes liberalisme, u can drink can gamble, free sex lgbt and whatnot so this definately attract youngsters yang tau nak seronok. Freedom to doom”.. well, i guess you came from Western perspective, since Christianity spread by white people. But please don’t be misunderstood, go check Bible, there is no word that allow such act.. What? Free sex, LGBT, gamble drink, liberalism? Don’t u know why some Europeans & Americans leave Christianity? Because the way they live don’t suit THE TRUE CHRISTIANITY, and that’s actually what are you talking about.

      As for Nabi ISA or in Christianity called Jesus, several hundred years before Muhammad, the 22 Hebrew books of the Old Testament (split into 39 in Christian editions) and the 27 Greek-language books of the New Testament had been canonized as the Christian Bible. Which one would you believe? The Original Text or The One Which Made After Hundred Years Following The Original One?

      So you really think Muslims don’t do free sex ect.? I’m surrounded with Muslims in my univ., and some of my Muslim got pregnant before marriage, i even know a girl in Hijab being a DJ and got pregnant, while my fellow Christians do nothing but study, joining research center, praying together that’s all.. we are not as bad as what you say. I actually never do this kind of thing before, i never mean to attack another religion.. sorry but your words just too harsh. But, don’t worry, this fact won’t make me think that all Muslims are the same. I have those respectful Muslim friends, and i feel sorry toward them because of you.

      Reply
  • 81. rossab  |  November 21, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    He comes for ISLAM of the present.

    Reply
  • 82. islam1st  |  November 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    ‘Gee, I wonder how the numerous anti-Chinese, anti-Indian, anti-Christian/anti-Hindu/anti-Buddhist, and now anti-Borneo nonsense coming out from the likes of the religious and racial far-right that you now shore up with?’

    Anti everything but Malay? Give me a break will you, AC-DC. Talks about ‘closing one eye’, don’t you reckon?

    Kata dulang paku serpih la u ni!

    Reply
  • 83. juhin guntidung  |  November 18, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    Semoga cristian di asia tengara akan sentiasa berkembang,demi umat cristian amin

    Reply
  • 84. Oivas  |  December 23, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    Hi Helen. I am from India. This article is poorly written and lacks in truth. You have already judged with little evidence. Let me be clear. In India and the rest of the world, the problems very often stem from Islam and Islamists. The more people turn away from Islam, the more peaceful the world will be.

    Reply

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