The “classic extremist acts” by Isma have created only “hatred and distrust”, Wanita MCA vice chairman Ong Chong Swen said yesterday when urging the authorities to use the Sedition Act against the vocal Muslim NGO.
See, ‘Charge Isma for sedition, MCA urges after booklet distribution’ (The Rakyat Post, 2 Dec 2014).
Isma’s political bureau had produced a flyer on the ‘Social Contract’ to be distributed nationwide. While Umno was busy banging bloggers as “bangang”, Isma stole the march on the Alif Ba Ta party by going to the ground.
EvangeliSTAR perpetual hysteria
MCA sounds just as hysterical as its mouthpiece The J-Star which has a habit of every day screaming shrilly at purported “extremists”.
Recalling her article last year titled ‘Ruling multiracial Malaysia’, J-Star former acting group chief editor June Wong wrote today in her column headlined ‘Tie a carrot to the big stick too‘:
“I went on to say [in previous column] I would support leaders who would stand firm against and punish those who preached hate and divisiveness, regardless of who they were.”
Accusing others of “hate and divisiveness” is clearly the favourite past time of the EvangeliSTAR.
BELOW: The evangelista church that looks like a casino
Only EvangeliSTARs moderate, others extremist
J-Star associate editor M. Veera Pandiyan’s column today is titled ‘Beset by anger and hate’. Again we see the EvangeliSTAR accusing other people of “hate”.
This formulaic accusation tossed so liberally by the evangelistas is becoming very tiresome, really.
Wrote Veera:
“… everything in Malaysia is somehow associated with politics and the overbearing anger and hatred it begets is stifling. As expected, last week’s Umno general assembly provided more fodder for the ill will to go on.”
Yeah, right. Blame it all on Umno.
Veera continued:
“The rational and moderate among us must remind political leaders and their supporters that there is more to life than trading insults and perpetuating endless hatred.”
He claims the “moderate” ground for himself and his fellow EvangeliSTARs. Those who do not see eye to eye with them are consigned to dwell on the extremist fringe.
BELOW: Even Malaysian weather is “so extreme” just “like some racist NGO”
MCA, DAP … what’s the difference?
Then Veera EvangeliSTAR took a scissor-stab with the following innuendo:
“Any rabble-rouser for a small and insignificant group can now manipulate the media into getting ample attention by making incendiary remarks. But there is a limit to how much political rancour and hate people can stomach.”
Okay, so who is Veera alluding to when he remarks on the “small and insignificant group” that is allegedly “making incendiary remarks” in order to grab media attention?
Let’s cross refer to the MCA statement yesterday which urged for the Sedition book to be thrown at Isma.
Ong Chong Swen said in her press statement: “Is Isma too small an organization that it must resort to such controversial actions to make itself famous?” The Wanita MCA vice chairman and the J-Star associate editor sound like fraternal twins.
And both of them sound like DAP kindred spirits.
True or false?
MCA is trying to refute the claim that the Chinese do not respect the constitutional provisions on Islam as the Religion of the Federation, the Malay “special position”, the sovereignty of the Raja-Raja Melayu as well as BM as our national language.
It insists that the Chinese and Christians truly respect Islam, respect Article 153, respect the Malay rulers and respect BM.
Below is the MCA tweet and press statement on Isma yesterday.
MCA tweeted the same press statement in English. There was no tweet nor press statement by MCA in our national language.
Umno ditipu hidup-hidup oleh MCA
“Any non-Malay with a basic knowledge of the history of the formation of Malaysia will not question the four pillars”, countered the Wanita MCA vice chief.
I doubt that she can convince Isma.
Sebenarnya orang Cina buta sejarah. They have scant “basic knowledge of the history of the formation of Malaysia” or Malaya.
The Chinese refuse to acknowledge that Persekutuan Tanah Melayu 1957 was a continuation of Persekutuan Tanah Melayu 1948 which was a continuation of Negeri-Negeri Melayu Bersekutu dan Negeri-Negeri Melayu Tak Bersekutu which were states under the rule of the Raja-Raja Melayu.
Malaysia in 1963 was not a new country. It was Malaya with a name change to incorporate Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore. The 1963 federal constitution remains still the 1957 constitution essentially, with new parts added on or modified to reflect the position of the three states that merged with Malaya.
BELOW: Watikah Pemashyuran Malaysia
The Malaysia proclamation begins with the salutation:
“In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Praise be to God, the Lord of the Universe, and may the benediction and peace of God be upon Our Leader Muhammad and upon all his Relations and Friends”.
Note that our historical Malaysia 1963 document begins with an Islamic invocation.
Adakah Islam diancam?
I think so, yes.
Read also, ‘Perjuangan gereja yang belum selesai mahukan Melayu diberi kebebasan beragama‘
The attempted robbery of kalimah Allah is a clear and present danger, and a threat to the very foundation of the faith.
It has already been foretold by verses in the Quran about the chameleon behaviour of the munafiq.
Hate
.
With regard to those people who keep pointing their finger and accusing others of hate, what do you reckon are their real feelings about Islam? Think about it, very seriously.
The evangelists memandai-mandai in their endeavour to teach Malays how to be good Muslims. They want to define – in the pro-Christian English media that is under their thorough control – what Islam is, and what Islam is not.
Isma cannot be expected to take these challenges sitting down, especially as Umno is not standing up in defence of Islam.
Now the MCA wants Isma arrested for sedition. Umno’s partners – MCA and its Nest of Evangelistas – are a part of the problem.
The only way forward, MCA has got to go!
In 1998, Dr Mahathir Mohamad’s book titled The Way Forward was published by Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London.
Dr M wrote:
“The MCA had done badly in the 1969 elections, and had obviously lost the support of the majority of the Chinese. Should it continue to represent the Chinese in the Alliance coalition? A fierce debate raged in the press over this question. Many Malays expressed the view that the MCA had failed the Alliance and should not be represented in the Government.” (pp.50-51)
The MCA had done disastrously in the 2013 elections, and had obviously lost the support of almost all the Chinese.
It is ridiculous for MCA to pretend to be representing the Chinese in the BN when the party is rejected by the very community it claims to speak for.
Presently, many Malays are expressing the view that MCA backstabbed BN and should not be allowed to hand over Malay-majority seats to the opposition on a silver platter.
MCA will cost BN the next election
MCA is not fighting the DAP which is the BN’s main opponent. Instead MCA is fighting Isma and Perkasa which make up the voters who pangkah Dacing.
BN won 44 grey areas, i.e. Parliament seats where the ruling party attained only a small majority of under six percent. BN lost 27 grey areas where the opposition majority was less than five percent – see table above.
Some of these 44 grey areas could be lost in GE14 because Malay voters are alienated by the BN due to the behaviour of the MCA. A few of the other 27 grey areas might possibly be turned to BN if the Malay voters can be persuaded.
The political calculus is this:
- It is impossible for MCA to bring any additional Chinese votes to the BN
- On the other hand, MCA is making BN bleed the Malay and Muslim votes
There is nothing – I repeat NOTHING! – further that can be gained by BN from the Chinese electorate. Don’t expect the 90 percent J-Juice drinkers to budge. They’re full of hate – the very thing they’re obsessively accusing Isma and Perkasa of.
Umno ni perlu math tuisyen
I voted BN in GE13. There was no “Pull” factor from the MCA that made me incline to the BN. There was instead a strong “Push” factor as I considered the DAP evangelistas to be a menace to society.
If Umno chooses to continue mollycoddling the MCA, then I (and quite likely many of the other 10 percent Chinese like me) will consider withdrawing our support from the BN.
Isma will also field its ostad-ostad as third party candidates and split the pro-establishment votes. This is a guarantee for BN to sure lose. See the GE13 results in Seremban (below).
Isma info chief Ustaz Abdul Halim Abdullah collected a very credible 6,866 votes. Negeri Sembilan MCA chief Dr Yeow Chai Thiam obtained 33,075 votes.
A little under one out of every five anti-DAP votes went to Isma (contesting on Berjasa ticket). If in GE14 Isma were to use their own logo and run as a political party, they will do much better than their Seremban result of 2013.
Dah lah the Umno president opened fire on his own troops by calling the Umno bloggers “bangang”.
Now this same man who is BN chairman wants to play Russian roulette and pointing a loaded gun at the head of his own coalition.
Continues:
Helen Ang 
‘There was no tweet nor press statement by MCA in our national language.’
So how does MCA wishes to send its message of politik moderat to the kampung folks? How does MCA wishes to speak to these Melayus? By asking them to learn Mandarin?
Most Malays in the bandar also tak bley cakap Inggeris wor?! How la like this MCA?
As always, the Chinese insist that the Melayu must understand and tolerance towards them on whatever circumstances but never the other ways.
Why bother about National language that being thought in national school that they don’t prefer.
They are in utter denial. Bodoh sombong crowds!
“The “classic extremist acts” by Isma have created only “hatred and distrust”, Wanita MCA vice chairman Ong Chong Swen said yesterday when urging the authorities to use the Sedition Act against the vocal Muslim NGO.”
You people asked for the Sedition Act to be retained, right? Why be surprised if it is used against your team?
“Malaysia in 1963 was not a new country. It was Malaya with a name change to incorporate Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore.”
It is this sort of mindset that fuels the dislike of Sabahans and Sarawakians towards Malaya-centric people.
“Adakah Islam diancam?
I think so, yes.”
So a religion that has Federal and State support, official government institutions and posts to enforce it, a dominant presence in the media, large portions of government spending, a sympathetic police force, and a 65% majority, is under threat from 9-10% of the population?
“The attempted robbery of kalimah Allah is a clear and present danger, and a threat to the very foundation of the faith.”
The Sabahan and Sarawakian Christians use this in their Malay language worship. Again, an example of Malaya-centric thinking that ruffles them.
“Now the MCA wants Isma arrested for sedition. Umno’s partners – MCA and its Nest of Evangelistas – are a part of the problem.”
Barisan Nasional, or at least its component parties have at least the sense to know, that the key to retaining power is not to pander to the race and religious extreme fringe. That will lose more votes than they will gain.
“BN won 44 grey areas, i.e. Parliament seats where the ruling party attained only a small majority of under six percent. BN lost 27 grey areas where the opposition majority was less than five percent – see table above.
Some of these 44 grey areas could be lost in GE14 because Malay voters are alienated by the BN due to the behaviour of the MCA. A few of the other 27 grey areas might possibly be turned to BN if the Malay voters can be persuaded.”
More likely these 44 grey areas will be lost if Umno continues to harp on race and religion while bread and butter issues go unaddressed, cost of living increases, debt increases, and the ongoing oil price crash which is reducing our nation’s income.
Imagine if the government has no money to pay its armies of civil servants because Petronas does not have enough money.
“If Umno chooses to continue mollycoddling the MCA, then I (and quite likely many of the other 10 percent Chinese like me) will consider withdrawing our support from the BN.”
If Umno chooses to pander to the race and religious extremists like Perkasa and Isma, it will lose the remaining 10 percent of Chinese (except two people), and 40 percent of Indians. I have not yet even touched Sabah and Sarawak with its large BN-voting Christian populations.
“Isma will also field its ostad-ostad as third party candidates and split the pro-establishment votes. This is a guarantee for BN to sure lose. See the GE13 results in Seremban (below).”
Isma info chief Ustaz Abdul Halim Abdullah collected a very credible 6,866 votes. Negeri Sembilan MCA chief Dr Yeow Chai Thiam obtained 33,075 votes.
A little under one out of every five anti-DAP votes went to Isma (contesting on Berjasa ticket).”
And in the bigger picture, Isma managed to only get less than one-tenth of the votes.
“If in GE14 Isma were to use their own logo and run as a political party, they will do much better than their Seremban result of 2013.”
Wishful thinking.
“Dah lah the Umno president opened fire on his own troops by calling the Umno bloggers “bangang”.”
Someone “termakan cili” it appears. He called them “bangang” for opening fire on fellow Umno and Barisan Nasional supporters.
“Now this same man who is BN chairman wants to play Russian roulette and pointing a loaded gun at the head of his own coalition”
The first shots across the bow has been fired at the extremist factions in Umno who seek to usurp Najib.
re: “It is this sort of mindset that fuels the dislike of Sabahans and Sarawakians towards Malaya-centric people.”
But it does not alter the fact that Malaysia in 1963 was not a new country. The Agong remained the Agong. Islam remained the Religion of the Federation. BM remained the national language, KL remained the capital, etc, etc.
re: “So a religion that has Federal and State support, official government institutions and posts to enforce it, a dominant presence in the media, large portions of government spending, a sympathetic police force, and a 65% majority, is under threat from 9-10% of the population?”
Yup. Which goes to show that the 9-10% of the population are not meek and mild as the Jerusubang cult likes to claim.
re: “The Sabahan and Sarawakian Christians use this in their Malay language worship. Again, an example of Malaya-centric thinking that ruffles them.”
For political expediency, Najib came up with the 10-point solution but that was only a stop-gap measure. For the long term, the Christians in Malaysia will ultimately have to give up using the ‘Allah’ word.
re: “Barisan Nasional, or at least its component parties have at least the sense to know, that the key to retaining power is not to pander to the race and religious extreme fringe. That will lose more votes than they will gain.”
BN has no more Chinese votes to lose. MCA has no more Chinese seats to lose.
And Najib shot himself in the foot by not honouring the MoU he (Tengku Adnan on behalf of BN) signed with Hindraf and that lost a segment of the Indian votes as well.
The Christian votes are at risk, it’s true. DAP is going all out to incite and instigate the Christian natives. Bernard Dompok already lost Penanmpang in the Sabah Kadazan heartland the last GE.
However as Jerusubang keeps whinging, the Christians are “only 9 percent”. Sarawak is the sole Christian-majority state in Malaysia but PBB is in firm control unlike Najib gelabah. The Muslims as your yourself have said are a “65% majority”, including in Sabah. So do the math, lah.
re: “More likely these 44 grey areas will be lost if Umno continues to harp on race and religion while bread and butter issues go unaddressed, cost of living increases, debt increases, and the ongoing oil price crash which is reducing our nation’s income.”
Agreed that economic issues (food on the table) will cost BN. However Race & Religion is not a zero sum game vis-a-vis Bread & Butter. The Malays may ikat perut but they will still dirikan solat lima waktu.
re: “Imagine if the government has no money to pay its armies of civil servants because Petronas does not have enough money.”
Imagine and recall the economic dissatisfaction of the Malays in 1969.
re: “If Umno chooses to pander to the race and religious extremists like Perkasa and Isma, it will lose the remaining 10 percent of Chinese”
You’re not one of the 10 percent, so I doubt that you’re able to read the pulse. It is the Christian extremists like the Jerusubang cult that are a bigger bother to Buddhists and Taoists. Singapore is one example of this. The other religionists over there are truly pissed off at the evangelistas (read all the luahan hati that poured out in the wake of the City Harvest scandal).
They do not have a quarrel with the S’pore Muslims.
re: “I have not yet even touched Sabah and Sarawak with its large BN-voting Christian populations.”
Sabah is a Muslim-majority state and overall Christians are “only 9 percent”.
re: “And in the bigger picture, Isma managed to only get less than one-tenth of the votes.”
Isma was third party like PSM. One out of 10 votes is still a good showing in a constituency that 41 percent Chinese voters.
re: “Wishful thinking”
Isma is shaping up as a force to be reckoned with. You heard it here first.
re: “He called them ‘bangang’ for opening fire on fellow Umno and Barisan Nasional supporters.”
Che Det is the blogger most critical of the Najib administration. It is not so much Umno that is under fire but Najib himself.
re: “The first shots across the bow has been fired at the extremist factions in Umno who seek to usurp Najib.”
Najib made himself even more unpopular by calling pro-establishment bloggers “bangang”.
“But it does not alter the fact that Malaysia in 1963 was not a new country. The Agong remained the Agong. Islam remained the Religion of the Federation. BM remained the national language, KL remained the capital, etc, etc.”
Yet clauses were made for Sabah and Sarawak in the Constitution. You are subject to immigration laws if you travel there from West Malaysia. If you stay longer than three months, you will need an additional permit. If you plan to work there, you need some form of a work permit.
“Yup. Which goes to show that the 9-10% of the population are not meek and mild as the Jerusubang cult likes to claim.”
That 9-10% includes Bumiputera Christians who are mostly Sabahans and Sarawakians. Is the target now Christians as a whole, and not just the so-called evangelists that is purpotedly based in Subang Jaya?
“For the long term, the Christians in Malaysia will ultimately have to give up using the ‘Allah’ word.”
Another example of the mindset that fuels discontent in Sabah and Sarawak.
But do you think the extremists you support will just stop at the Christians?
In the long term, will the Hindu’s ultimately have to dismantle the Batu Caves temple?
For the long term, will the Buddhists ultimately have to cease their religious practices?
For the long term, will non-Muslims in Malaysia ultimately have to give up their Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion?
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“BN has no more Chinese votes to lose. MCA has no more Chinese seats to lose.
And Najib shot himself in the foot by not honouring the MoU he (Tengku Adnan on behalf of BN) signed with Hindraf and that lost a segment of the Indian votes as well.”
Correct. Najib made an own-goal by kicking Hindraf to the curb. But do you think the extremists you support would be any better? To them, people like Waythamoorthy who “do not know their place” should rot in prison, or worse. He would be lucky to be a free man, let alone a government post.
BN still has the remaining 10 percent Chinese voters to lose, if they pander to the extremists of Perkasa and Isma. The vast majority of these 10-percent certainly do not share your tacit support for Isma, and include moderates such as Wong Chun Wai and Tai Zee Kin.
“Sarawak is the sole Christian-majority state in Malaysia but PBB is in firm control unlike Najib gelabah. The Muslims as your yourself have said are a “65% majority”, including in Sabah. So do the math, lah.”
PBB is a multi-religious party that includes many native-religion and Christian leaders. Moreover, Sabah and Sarawak operates on a different frequency where Peninsular-style racial and religious zero sum games are not that effective. That is why Adenan Satem permits Allah to be used by the Christians, for instance.
“Agreed that economic issues (food on the table) will cost BN. However Race & Religion is not a zero sum game vis-a-vis Bread & Butter. The Malays may ikat perut but they will still dirikan solat lima waktu.”
“Imagine and recall the economic dissatisfaction of the Malays in 1969.”
Different times, different racial economic situations. Some people assumed there would be a repeat of the 1969 racial riots after the Barisan Nasional lost its two-thirds majority and five states. That did not happen despite numerous race-baiting attempts by extremists within Umno. Ditto with the last elections.
“You’re not one of the 10 percent, so I doubt that you’re able to read the pulse. It is the Christian extremists like the Jerusubang cult that are a bigger bother to Buddhists and Taoists.”
Around 80 percent of Chinese Malaysians are Buddhist, Taoist, or follow an ethnic-Chinese religion. Yet, as you said, the majority of Chinese Malaysians did not vote the Barisan Nasional. I may not be among the remaining 10-percent or less Chinese that still support the Barisan Nasional, but I personally know a number of them. Their motives for sticking with the Barisan Nasional range from business-interests, the belief in the legacy of the Gerakan or MCA, family history, to dislike of PAS, PKR, or DAP. Christians do not appear on their radar screen.
“Singapore is one example of this. The other religionists over there are truly pissed off at the evangelistas (read all the luahan hati that poured out in the wake of the City Harvest scandal).”
Disgust at the abuse of power within the City Harvest Church did not translate into disgust of the wider Christian community there, let alone the charismatic denominations.
“Sabah is a Muslim-majority state and overall Christians are “only 9 percent”.”
Sabah has 25-percent Christian populations. That is a significant amount of votes.
“Isma was third party like PSM. One out of 10 votes is still a good showing in a constituency that 41 percent Chinese voters.”
Unlike Isma, the Socialists actually won a seat, and has won far more than one out of ten votes.
“Isma is shaping up as a force to be reckoned with. You heard it here first.”
They said the same about Ibrahim Ali. Yet he was soundly beaten in the last general election, together with Zulkifli Noordin. A lot of hot-air and empty vessels.
“Che Det is the blogger most critical of the Najib administration. It is not so much Umno that is under fire but Najib himself.”
The Old Man has also complained about Umno today being populated by self-interested people, and only joined by self-interested people seeking to make some quick ringgits. As if that was not the case when he was Prime Minister.
“Najib made himself even more unpopular by calling pro-establishment bloggers “bangang”.”
He just attacked those not on his side. There is a qualm of truth to that, though. ;-)
re: “Yet clauses were made for Sabah and Sarawak in the Constitution. You are subject to immigration laws if you travel there from West Malaysia. … If you plan to work there, you need some form of a work permit.”
States can have their own laws. In the USA, some states have the death penalty and some states don’t.
Alaska joined the union on 3 Jan 1959, and Hawaii on 21 Aug 1959 but the American Independence Day remains 4th of July, and did not evolve into a new country in 1959. The USA is still considered to have been born in 1776.
Likewise our National Day remains Aug 31 despite the inclusion of Sabah and Sarawak.
re: “That 9-10% includes Bumiputera Christians who are mostly Sabahans and Sarawakians. Is the target now Christians as a whole, and not just the so-called evangelists that is purportedly based in Subang Jaya?”
It is very unfortunate for the Ibans, Dayaks, Kadazan-Dusun-Muruts and other Christian natives that they’re being manipulated and exploited by Jerusubang for the DAP’s gain.
re: “Another example of the mindset that fuels discontent in Sabah and Sarawak.”
Nonetheless, the Christians in Malaysia will ultimately have to give up using the ‘Allah’ word in the long term. The pressures tend to that direction.
re: “But do you think the extremists you support will just stop at the Christians?”
You’re a Yahudi Yeoh. That’s why you like applying the label “extremists” on those you’re not aligned with.
re: “In the long term, will the Hindus ultimately have to dismantle the Batu Caves temple?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “For the long term, will the Buddhists ultimately have to cease their religious practices?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “For the long term, will non-Muslims in Malaysia ultimately have to give up their Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “But do you think the you support would be any better? To them, people like Waythamoorthy who “do not know their place” should rot in prison, or worse. He would be lucky to be a free man, let alone a government post.”
Your name-calling (“extremists”) aside, I do believe that if it was the Mahathir administration that signed the MoU, it would have been honoured.
re: “BN still has the remaining 10 percent Chinese voters to lose, if they pander to the extremists of Perkasa and Isma.”
See C72 @ 2014/12/04 at 1:52 pm
re: “The vast majority of these 10-percent certainly do not share your tacit support for Isma, and include moderates such as Wong Chun Wai and Tai Zee Kin.”
Your belief that WCW is a “moderate” shows your Yahudi Yeoh-ism.
re: “PBB is a multi-religious party that includes many native-religion and Christian leaders.”
It is controlled by the Muslims. Taib Mahmud is a Muslim as is Adenan Satem.
re: “That is why Adenan Satem permits Allah to be used by the Christians, for instance.”
Unlike the hypocritical DAP asyik buat kacau in the peninsula.
re: “Different times, different racial economic situations.”
Two generations (45 years) ago is not all that long, and behaviour is not all that different. The Bintang Lima are the cucu-cicit of the Bintang Tiga.
re: “Some people assumed there would be a repeat of the 1969 racial riots after the Barisan Nasional lost its two-thirds majority and five states.”
So the thought and the fear were indeed present. It’s just that ‘it’ did not materialize.
re: “That did not happen despite numerous race-baiting attempts by extremists within Umno.”
Name-calling yet again. Be careful what you wish for.
re: “Around 80 percent of Chinese Malaysians are Buddhist, Taoist, or follow an ethnic-Chinese religion. Yet, as you said, the majority of Chinese Malaysians did not vote the Barisan Nasional.”
The DAP has been very successful in its Hate campaign. Umno cannot counter the hate wave unless the Umno people (media, bloggers, Facebookers, etc) start communicating in Chinese and writing hanzi.
re: “Christians do not appear on their radar screen.”
They pick on Ridhuan Tee for converting to Islam but they don’t pick on Hannah Yeoh for converting to Christianity. They mock mualaf Cina but they don’t mock the Hananas.
re: “Disgust at the abuse of power within the City Harvest Church did not translate into disgust of the wider Christian community there, let alone the charismatic denominations.”
On the contrary, both LKY and his son have addressed the issue of the evangelistas in S’pore.
re: “Sabah has 25-percent Christian populations. That is a significant amount of votes.”
I’ve already mentioned, Bernard Dompok lost his Penampang seat. The BN had already lost some Sabah “fixed deposit” votes in GE13. Christian support for BN may plummet further in GE14. That’s why Umno-BN have to move to consolidate the Muslim vote.
re: “Unlike Isma, the Socialists actually won a seat, and has won far more than one out of ten votes.”
But 4 out of 10 voters in Seremban are Chinese, don’t forget.
As our Shamshul has pointed out, the same trend of Malays rejecting MCA was replicated in Alor Setar. The Isma candidate got 3,530 votes. The PKR winning majority was 1,873. Hence the split votes and multi-cornered fight did cause BN to lose.
re: “They said the same about Ibrahim Ali. Yet he was soundly beaten in the last general election, together with Zulkifli Noordin. A lot of hot-air and empty vessels.”
IA contested in PAS state, and one ruled by PAS the last quarter century. Perkasa is stronger in the West Coast.
As for Zul Noordin, he did very well for a last-minute parachute candidate who did not get the backing of the local Umno machinery. Plus 30 percent of Shah Alam voters are non-Malay. ZN was supported by the Malays.
re: “The Old Man has also complained about Umno today being populated by self-interested people, and only joined by self-interested people seeking to make some quick ringgits.”
Actually he was the one who gave the signal for perwakilan to “tegur” the pucuk pimpinan at PAU.
re: “He just attacked those not on his side. There is a qualm of truth to that, though.”
Najib made himself even more unpopular. My posting https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/panglima-perang-yang-tembak-laskarnya-sendiri/
was a viral hit, attracting 3k-plus Facebook shares and more than 15,000 page views in the span of 24 hours when it was uploaded.
“States can have their own laws. In the USA, some states have the death penalty and some states don’t.
Alaska joined the union on 3 Jan 1959, and Hawaii on 21 Aug 1959 but the American Independence Day remains 4th of July, and did not evolve into a new country in 1959. The USA is still considered to have been born in 1776.”
The United States is a federal republic. Ours is a constitutional monarchy. Our nation is more comparable to the United Kingdom with our parliamentary system following the Westminster system.
“It is very unfortunate for the Ibans, Dayaks, Kadazan-Dusun-Muruts and other Christian natives that they’re being manipulated and exploited by Jerusubang for the DAP’s gain.”
How are they being exploited when they themselves are voicing discontent towards attempts to ban them from using ‘Allah’ by certain quarters?
“Nonetheless, the Christians in Malaysia will ultimately have to give up using the ‘Allah’ word in the long term. The pressures tend to that direction.”
That will not be happening. Sabah and Sarawakian leaders from both sides have defended that right. Najib himself has said that the Bumiputera Christians are allowed to use ‘Allah’. Even the Al-Kitabs seized at the airport have been returned.
“You’re a Yahudi Yeoh. That’s why you like applying the label “extremists” on those you’re not aligned with.”
Isma, Perkasa, and their ilk are certainly not centrist, nor progressive. Perhaps that is why you bristle when they are called ‘extremists’, very much when Najib called a certain group of bloggers “bangang”.
“re: “In the long term, will the Hindus ultimately have to dismantle the Batu Caves temple?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “For the long term, will the Buddhists ultimately have to cease their religious practices?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “For the long term, will non-Muslims in Malaysia ultimately have to give up their Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.”
Afraid of facing the truth that these people you support also have no like for non-Muslims as a whole, and not just limited to Christians?
“…I do believe that if it was the Mahathir administration that signed the MoU, it would have been honoured.”
This is hilarious. Mahathir would have put Waythamoorthy into prison, or ISA. There would not even be a talk of an MoU.
“See C72 @ 2014/12/04 at 1:52 pm”
That makes it two people. Three perhaps, if we count in that university lecturer who may possibly be linked with a recent forgery case.
“Your belief that WCW is a “moderate” shows your Yahudi Yeoh-ism.”
Wong Chun Wai is a pro-Barisan Nasional lackey, but he is certainly towards the centre.
“It is controlled by the Muslims. Taib Mahmud is a Muslim as is Adenan Satem.”
And Adenan Satem knows that the Christians in Sarawak form a core base of his support.
“Two generations (45 years) ago is not all that long, and behaviour is not all that different. The Bintang Lima are the cucu-cicit of the Bintang Tiga.”
That is four decades. Each decade, or even half-decade has a generation of youngsters with a different mindset. The target of their gripes over issues of affordable housing, unfavourable cost of living, stagnant salaries, unemployment, education loans, healthcare, etc. is the government.
“So the thought and the fear were indeed present. It’s just that ‘it’ did not materialize.”
And it did not materialize, despite numerous attempts.
“Name-calling yet again.”
Says the person who creates all sorts of names for people.
“Umno cannot counter the hate wave unless the Umno people (media, bloggers, Facebookers, etc) start communicating in Chinese and writing hanzi.”
That has already been attempted by the Barisan Nasional propaganda machinery. But, no harm in trying again. The biggest winners from that Mandarin campaign will be the translators. They will be rolling in purple money.
“They pick on Ridhuan Tee for converting to Islam but they don’t pick on Hannah Yeoh for converting to Christianity. They mock mualaf Cina but they don’t mock the Hananas.”
Ridhuan Tee attacks the Chinese, threatens unrest, and freely throws the ‘ultra-kiasu’ label around as if its free. He tries to pander to the extremist fringe. People see him as a quisling.
“On the contrary, both LKY and his son have addressed the issue of the evangelistas in S’pore.”
[YouTube]
“I’ve already mentioned, Bernard Dompok lost his Penampang seat. The BN had already lost some Sabah “fixed deposit” votes in GE13. Christian support for BN may plummet further in GE14. That’s why Umno-BN have to move to consolidate the Muslim vote.”
Such a zero-sum strategy will backfire over there, especially in Sarawak.
“But 4 out of 10 voters in Seremban are Chinese, don’t forget.
As our Shamshul has pointed out, the same trend of Malays rejecting MCA was replicated in Alor Setar. The Isma candidate got 3,530 votes. The PKR winning majority was 1,873. Hence the split votes and multi-cornered fight did cause BN to lose.”
Hey, let me know when Isma actually wins a seat, ok.
“IA contested in PAS state, and one ruled by PAS the last quarter century.
Rejected by conservative Malay-Muslims.
“Perkasa is stronger in the West Coast. As for Zul Noordin, he did very well for a last-minute parachute candidate who did not get the backing of the local Umno machinery. Plus 30 percent of Shah Alam voters are non-Malay. ZN was supported by the Malays.”
Some last-minute parachute candidates did far better than Zul Nordin. Several even won. And Shah Alam is 70 percent Malay. That is more than two-thirds. If losing by a 11,000 vote majority is “doing well”, I would like to see what “doing ok” is…
“Najib made himself even more unpopular. My posting https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/panglima-perang-yang-tembak-laskarnya-sendiri/
was a viral hit, attracting 3k-plus Facebook shares and more than 15,000 page views in the span of 24 hours when it was uploaded.”
*Yawn*
On the other hand, this friendly-fire battle between Najib and the other team will be nice to watch.
re: “The United States is a federal republic.”
We’re a federation too, Federation of Malaya/Malaysia.
re: “Ours is a constitutional monarchy. Our nation is more comparable to the United Kingdom with our parliamentary system following the Westminster system.”
Scotland has a devolved rule and is largely autonomous. There’s nothing unusual in Sabah & Sarawak having some degree of autonomy.
re: “How are they being exploited when they themselves are voicing discontent towards attempts to ban them from using ‘Allah’ by certain quarters?”
They have the 10-point solution. It is Guan Eng (remember his controversial Christmas message?) and the DAP evangelistas who are inciting.
re: “That will not be happening. Sabah and Sarawakian leaders from both sides have defended that right.”
That’s because Sabah and Sarawak leaders are still mainly BN. If they’re not BN, they will have lesser clout in/with Putrajaya.
re: “Najib himself has said that the Bumiputera Christians are allowed to use ‘Allah’.”
Najib himself has said that the Sedition Act would be repealed. He said it three times, apparently.
re: “Even the Al-Kitabs seized at the airport have been returned.”
That’s because of the 10-point solution. However the DAP is intent on torpedoing the settlement.
re: “Isma, Perkasa, and their ilk are certainly not centrist, nor progressive.”
Moderation and centrism is wasted on fanatical evangelistas.
re: “Perhaps that is why you bristle when they are called ‘extremists’, very much when Najib called a certain group of bloggers ‘bangang’.”
I may be an alpha blogger but only alpha-minus lah. You need to be alpha-plus, like AKJ, to get on the PM’s radar. Ah Jib Gor does not read my blog.
re: “Afraid of facing the truth that these people you support also have no like for non-Muslims as a whole, and not just limited to Christians?”
You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.
re: “This is hilarious. Mahathir would have put Waythamoorthy into prison, or ISA. There would not even be a talk of an MoU.”
It was KJ’s father-in-law who put the Hindraf lawyers under ISA, not Dr M.
re: “That makes it two people.”
You’re in denial.
re: “Wong Chun Wai is a pro-Barisan Nasional lackey, but he is certainly towards the centre.”
He’s an evangelical Christian extremist.
Why don’t you Google LKY + “evangelists” / “evangelical”?
re: “Hey, let me know when Isma actually wins a seat, ok.”
They can’t as a third party but they can under the Zul Noordin-type special `arrangement.
re: “Rejected by conservative Malay-Muslims.”
Rejected by Kelantanese whom everybody knows are lain daripada yang lain.
re: “Some last-minute parachute candidates did far better than Zul Nordin. Several even won.”
What you say is true. The DAP parachute candidates won. That’s because Chinese voters are taksub giler. They will even vote a broomstick.
re: “And Shah Alam is 70 percent Malay. That is more than two-thirds. If losing by a 11,000 vote majority is “doing well”, I would like to see what ‘doing ok’ is…”
Zul Noordin obtained 38,070 votes. 38k votes is a lot.
re: *Yawn*
But you’re still stalking my blog 24/7 and submitting 1,000-word comments.
“Scotland has a devolved rule and is largely autonomous. There’s nothing unusual in Sabah & Sarawak having some degree of autonomy.”
Yet you do not need travel documents when travelling between England and Scotland. An Englishman does not need a permit if he stays longer than three months in Scotland.
“That’s because Sabah and Sarawak leaders are still mainly BN. If they’re not BN, they will have lesser clout in/with Putrajaya.”
Not really. Sabah and Sarawakian leaders are growing to realise that without them, Umno, MCA, and MIC will be short of a simple 50% majority required to form the government. That is why they are becoming more assertive with and within Umno, for they know they are the kingmakers.
“Najib himself has said that the Sedition Act would be repealed. He said it three times, apparently.”
Of course, if he U-turns, the Sabahans and Sarawakians will use it against him. James Masing will be sounding again.
“That’s because of the 10-point solution. However the DAP is intent on torpedoing the settlement.”
I wonder who is really intent on torpedoing the 10-point solution when you say that the Christians will ultimately have to give up their usage of the word ‘Allah’?
“You’re being “divisive” and stirring religious discord.”
I knew you are unable to rebut that, nor face the fact that the extremists you support also harbour heavy prejudice on other non-Muslims.
“It was KJ’s father-in-law who put the Hindraf lawyers under ISA, not Dr M.”
Mahathir would have done the same or worse, given his record.
“He’s an evangelical Christian extremist.”
Evidence?
“re: “Hey, let me know when Isma actually wins a seat, ok.”
They can’t as a third party but they can under the Zul Noordin-type special `arrangement.”
And Zul Noordin still lost. Sure, he got about 38,000 votes, but he lost by a large majority of around 11,000. In an area that is nearly 70 percent Malay.
re: “Yet you do not need travel documents when travelling between England and Scotland. An Englishman does not need a permit if he stays longer than three months in Scotland.”
Scotland has a high degree of independence in tax matters. What’s your problem with Sabah and Sarawak having a high degree of independence in immigration matters?
re: “Not really. Sabah and Sarawakian leaders are growing to realise that without them, Umno, MCA, and MIC will be short of a simple 50% majority required to form the government. That is why they are becoming more assertive with and within Umno, for they know they are the kingmakers.”
True. Sabah Umno has 14 MPs which is double MCA’s seven.
I won’t comment on Sabah as they’re too complex but Sarawak will soon be polarized like the peninsula thanks to the DAP’s ascendency there, and the party’s tactic of pitting the races and religions against each other.
re: “I wonder who is really intent on torpedoing the 10-point solution when you say that the Christians will ultimately have to give up their usage of the word ‘Allah’?”
I’m just a blogger. I have no political clout. Of course it is Guan Eng who created a ruckus with his Christmas message (a couple of years ago) that instigated negativity over the ‘Allah’ Bible issue.
re: “I knew you are unable to rebut that, nor face the fact that the extremists you support also harbour heavy prejudice on other non-Muslims.”
You just can’t get away from your Yahudi Yeoh-ism and reflexive instinct to label the other side “extremists”.
re: “Mahathir would have done the same or worse, given his record.”
Your Firster idol Tunku has a harsher record than Dr M.
re: “He’s an evangelical Christian extremist.” / “Evidence?”
When he points his finger at Isma, three other fingers are pointing back at himself.
re: “And Zul Noordin still lost. Sure, he got about 38,000 votes, but he lost by a large majority of around 11,000. In an area that is nearly 70 percent Malay.”
(1) Sigh, you YYs are incapable of giving credit where credit is due. Collecting 38k votes on BN banner is an achievement considering that in the term before, ZN was a PKR Parliamentarian.
(2) Khalid Samad was the incumbent. ZN went in as underdog. Selangor is a giler taksub Pakatan state where Pakatan controls 4/5 of the DUN.
(3) ZN is not even a Selangorian. He’s a Perakian. He was parachuted into unfamiliar terrain and the 30 percent non-Malay electorate was impossible to overcome.
“Scotland has a high degree of independence in tax matters. What’s your problem with Sabah and Sarawak having a high degree of independence in immigration matters?”
Sabah and Sarawak has a high degree of independence in immigration matters and other legislative aspects too.
“True. Sabah Umno has 14 MPs which is double MCA’s seven.
I won’t comment on Sabah as they’re too complex but Sarawak will soon be polarized like the peninsula thanks to the DAP’s ascendency there, and the party’s tactic of pitting the races and religions against each other.”
Sarawak is just as complex as Sabah. Race and religion tactics do not easily work there. They do not like it when Peninsular people try to be condescending towards them.
re: “I knew you are unable to rebut that, nor face the fact that the extremists you support also harbour heavy prejudice on other non-Muslims.”
You just can’t get away from your Yahudi Yeoh-ism and reflexive instinct to label the other side “extremists”.
An organisation such as Isma that promotes ethnoreligious supremacy, and is hostile towards other races and religions, is certainly not centrist. Among other things they have a fear of Hindu temples being renovated.
“Your Firster idol Tunku has a harsher record than Dr M.”
As if Dr Mahathir would actually honour any agreement with Hindraf, or even sign one in the first place. Good luck believing that.
“re: “He’s an evangelical Christian extremist.” / “Evidence?”
When he points his finger at Isma, three other fingers are pointing back at himself.”
So no proof-lah. I knew it.
re: “And Zul Noordin still lost. Sure, he got about 38,000 votes, but he lost by a large majority of around 11,000. In an area that is nearly 70 percent Malay.”
“(1) Sigh, you YYs are incapable of giving credit where credit is due. Collecting 38k votes on BN banner is an achievement considering that in the term before, ZN was a PKR Parliamentarian.”
(2) Khalid Samad was the incumbent. ZN went in as underdog. Selangor is a giler taksub Pakatan state where Pakatan controls 4/5 of the DUN.
(3) ZN is not even a Selangorian. He’s a Perakian. He was parachuted into unfamiliar terrain and the 30 percent non-Malay electorate was impossible to overcome.
Oh, so losing by a large majority in a 70-percent Malay area despite countless babble about fighting for and defending his race is now an “achievement” . Seeing how you think that Isma/Berjasa getting only a small fraction of the total votes is an “achievement”, that is no surprise.
re: “Sabah and Sarawak has a high degree of independence in immigration matters and other legislative aspects too.”
Which legislative aspects, please enlighten us?
re: “They do not like it when Peninsular people try to be condescending towards them.”
And that’s why PKR was roundly rejected and Umno Sabah did so well in GE13.
re: “As if Dr Mahathir would actually honour any agreement with Hindraf, or even sign one in the first place. Good luck believing that.”
It has been proven that Ah Jib Gor did not honour the BN’s agreement with Hindraf nor his own repeated promise to repeal the Sedition Act. With Tun, we can’t know. You’re only speculating.
“re: So no proof-lah. I knew it.”
Wong Chun Wai showboats – to the extent of hiring big street billboards – as a “moderate”. You keep insisting he is a moderate. Why don’t you prove how WCW is a moderate?
re: “Oh, so losing by a large majority in a 70-percent Malay area despite countless babble about fighting for and defending his race is now an ‘achievement’. Seeing how you think that Isma/Berjasa getting only a small fraction of the total votes is an ‘achievement’, that is no surprise.”
Zul Noordin obtained 38,070 as a last-minute outsider candidate who contested without the backing of the local Umno machinery. Yes, I would consider that an achievement.
I’m not surprised that you choose to belittle his results. You similarly belittle many other things.
ISMA dan Perkasa kan contested in the GE13 election as independents but lost. So where’s the support so claimed? UMNO on it’s own cannot be in Putrajaya without the fixed deposits from Sabah dan Sarawak.
It’s a matter of time before political reality steps in maybe even before GE14 when PKR became part of BN and MCA and MIC are booted out. That looks very very likely. Anwar really don’t mind Nurul or Azmin jadi TPM even if he goes to jail.
Too much bad blood already for BN to accept PAS or DAP as coalition partners. Furthermore sweet pillow talk is not going to work at the last minute and may even destroy their party finally.
The main trigger has to come from East Malaysia when they start making demands and BN cannot fulfilled. Remember PBS? And now PPB and PBDS also preparing their demands.
Will they be happy remaining under BN for a few ministers and deputy minister posts when they know they will have a better deal with PR if they can move to Putrajaya?
HA dan pengampu boleh menyalak siang malam about this and that but the political realty just shows that your political vision is zero in the march as to finally who goes to Putrajaya. It will lead to “Menang sorak only tetapi kampong, bangsa, bahasa, adat, Raja-raja, Tanah Melayu semua habis tergadai.
So, stop claiming you are so political wise and lead everyone to the slaughterhouse finally.
Are you an evengelista in disguise instead? You, maybe the biggest threat to the ruling party in Govt by creating hate and dividing all those BN supporters whether UMNO or not.
re: “You, maybe the biggest threat to the ruling party in Govt by creating hate and dividing all those BN supporters whether UMNO or not.”
Tsk, tsk, tsk Dandy, your Red Beaniness is so evident from your limited vocabulary – “hate” and “divide” are the main bullets in your political arsenal. Can’t get away from the two words, can ya?
As Tun has repeated time and again, the Malay vote is at present already split … between Umno and PAS, and to a lesser extent PKR and a much lesser extent, third parties such as Perkasa and Isma.
If there was Malay-Muslim unity, Umno with the help of Sarawak’s PBB can rule on their own.
The non-Malay BN supporters are strictly the Chinese. The Indians are half-half (Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN) and it is Najib himself who is alienating the native Borneo vote.
James Masing of PRS is peeved with Ah Jib Gor for his kera di hutan (undi Cina) disusukan while anak di rumah (undi Dayak) kebuluran attitude.
You do realise, Dandy, don’t you that your incessant putar-belit is only reinforcing the perception of readers regarding the Porky Principle?
Helen,
Precisely. ISMA is a force to reckon with.
UMNO must make sure ISMA is on its side. Even if UMNO does not agree whole heartedly with ISMA, do not wage war against ISMA.
iSMA members are not low income earners. They are professionals with good command of English, better than overrated Hannah Yeoh.
ISMA takes bull by its horn. They are not confrontational. Why these leaning to DAPSTERS cant stomach is that ISMA is able to rebut point by point.
They are just being firm. Something that is missing in UMNO now. But it was not like that not long time ago. During tun’s time, UMNO is very firm to DAP.
Everyone knows ISMA and Perkasa are the works of Mahathir a/k ….. as insurance to ensure his continued power over the Malays due to eroding support in UMNO. One willl champion mainly Malay rights while the other will champion religious rights.
It has become a liability to BN since these two are nothing more than weapons for political tussle between the 2 main power factions in UMNO. One pro-Mahathir and the other pro-Najib.
And the rest of the Malays and Moslems get blinded and are used as lembus to fulfill each other powerbase under the guise and hypocricies of fighting for race and religion.
Sejarah keruntuhan Kesultanan Melaka is repeating itself. This time the winning invaders will not be foreign but East Malaysians.
You think the East Malaysians are forever lembus to BN? You think the East Malaysians don’t want to rule Malaysia? You think the moslems East Malaysians are like the moslems in Tanah Melayu?
Do not be surprise the PM using the Sedition Act when things start falling apart and they see power slipping thru their hands whether in UMNO or BN. There is just too much money at stake for everyone to let it go.
That’s what the main purpose of retaining the Sedition Act is for isn’t it? And no need to bullshit and blind everyone by saying it is good to for a happy, democratic, diverse, unique, multicultural, multireligious etc.
That was once Mahathir a/k …… weapon of curtailing dissent and criticms and hold on power and I guess PM has now found it to be useful to be kept in his pocket in case his position is threatened.
The question is why an 90+ old ex-PM past his time, senile and having incontinance still seeking power for himself and his powerbase? Stop bullshitting about defender of this and that, ok. Why don’t he just say it loud and clear it is to preserve his legacy and dynasty and the real fear of him being prosecuted just like what happen to all those dictatorial leaders around the world if ever a new govt. take over and all those Rahsia documents are all declassified.
Uniting every Moslem or Melayu under ISMA or Perkasa to take over UMNO or BN is a joke isn’t it? Do you really think it is possible when everyone knows what is happenning within and without UMNO and BN and the only supporters are either pro-Mahathirists, rightwingers, leftwingers or those hypnothized by retorik perjuangan itu dan ini.
Kan Bangang betul
There you have it. More money in the bank for you.
“You think the East Malaysians are forever lembus to BN? You think the East Malaysians don’t want to rule Malaysia?”
I do not know about that, if they do want to seize power and rule Malaysia. But I do know they realise they have greater bargaining power, as they are the ones that allow Barisan Nasional to lead the government.
“Do not be surprise the PM using the Sedition Act when things start falling apart and they see power slipping thru their hands whether in UMNO or BN. There is just too much money at stake for everyone to let it go.”
The funny thing is the Sedition Act will not help them retain their grip on power. The happy years of banning alternative media, media monopolization, and using the Sedition Act and ISA to control dissent is mostly over.
“The question is why an 90+ old ex-PM past his time, senile and having incontinance still seeking power for himself and his powerbase? Stop bullshitting about defender of this and that, ok. Why don’t he just say it loud and clear it is to preserve his legacy and dynasty and the real fear of him being prosecuted just like what happen to all those dictatorial leaders around the world if ever a new govt. take over and all those Rahsia documents are all declassified.”
Why should Mahathir state the obvious? He knows that if once he goes and the “M” dynasty is still not secure, Khairy will tear Mukhriz to shreds.
“If there was Malay-Muslim unity, Umno with the help of Sarawak’s PBB can rule on their own.”
If. But Umno should know that its efforts to play up the religion and racial card only gives it diminishing returns in contrast to massive losses among the other races and religions, and even from Malays itself.
“The non-Malay BN supporters are strictly the Chinese.”
This must be a typing error.
“The Indians are half-half (Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN) and it is Najib himself who is alienating the native Borneo vote.”
Please show evidence that Hindu’s support the Barisan Nasional.
Over 85-percent of Malaysian Indians are Hindus. Only six percent are Christians. Political support to the Barisan Nasional in the last election ranges from fifty percent to fourty percent.
“James Masing of PRS is peeved with Ah Jib Gor for his kera di hutan (undi Cina) disusukan while anak di rumah (undi Dayak) kebuluran attitude.”
James Masing is also peeved at those who pander to racial and religious extremists from Perkasa and Isma, and calls to prohibit Christians from using ‘Allah’.
re: “The non-Malay BN supporters are strictly the Chinese.” / “This must be a typing error.”
Hahaha.
re: “Please show evidence that Hindu’s support the Barisan Nasional.”
The MIC votes lah, and the areas where MIC won.
“The MIC votes lah, and the areas where MIC won.”
You mean those four areas they won, in comparison to the seven constituencies they lost?
Indian vote percentages for BN, see http://dahalmi.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/pilihan-raya-umum-ke-13-tahun-2013-analisis-undi-dan-kerusi-mengikut-kaum/
There are non-MIC areas where the Indian votes are ‘significant’ (not majority but can cause a tipping over). The estate vote in Labis is one example.
See, https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/02/20/a-mere-10-indian-vote-swing-will-lose-bn-five-seats/
From the blog, the average support for Barisan Nasional among Indians is only 43-percent.
Given the fact that 85-percent of Malaysian Indians are Hindus, the idea of “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN” is false.
re: “Given the fact that 85-percent of Malaysian Indians are Hindus”
And where did you read that factoid?
re: “the idea of “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN” is false”
If the idea of Christian Indians supporting the opposition is false, are you saying that the idea of Christian Indians supporting BN is true then?
“And where did you read that factoid?”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Indian#Religions_and_faiths
Religions of Indian Malaysians[14]:
Hinduism – 86.18%
Christianity – 5.99%
Islam – 4.13%
Buddhism – 1.70%
Other religions – 1.92%
No religion / Unknown – 0.05%
Now how did you come up with the notion that “the idea of “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN” ??
Oh, so your primary source is invariably Wikipedia. Don’t you ever read books?
re: “Now how did you come up with the notion that “the idea of “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN”?
How else can MIC justify its existence in the BN if not? The party collected a quarter million votes in GE13. Some of it would have been Malay votes of course but some of it would need to have been Indian votes too.
“Oh, so your primary source is invariably Wikipedia. Don’t you ever read books?”
Wikipedia is a fast source for facts. And the data about religions was sourced from the government census.
“re: “Now how did you come up with the notion that “the idea of “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN”?
How else can MIC justify its existence in the BN if not? The party collected a quarter million votes in GE13. Some of it would have been Malay votes of course but some of it would need to have been Indian votes too.”
Since only 5 percent of Indians are Christians, and around 57-percent of Indian voters supported Pakatan Rakyat, the facts do not match your notion.
re: “And the data about religions was sourced from the government census.”
Here is the Wiki page – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Indian#cite_note-statistics.gov.my-2
Please show me where in the census report – url cited in Wiki – that it says 6 percent of Indians are Christians. Just give us the census report page number will do.
re: “57-percent of Indian voters supported Pakatan Rakyat, the facts do not match your notion”
Hullo, if it is not the Hindu Indians supporting MIC, are you saying that it is the mamaks who support BN?
re: “Since only 5 percent of Indians are Christians”
Oii, your own Wiki stats says Christianity among Indians is “5.99 %” – that’s 6% lah.
“re: “57-percent of Indian voters supported Pakatan Rakyat, the facts do not match your notion”
Hullo, if it is not the Hindu Indians supporting MIC, are you saying that it is the mamaks who support BN?”
re: “Since only 5 percent of Indians are Christians”
Oii, your own Wiki stats says Christianity among Indians is “5.99 %” – that’s 6% lah.”
Six-percent, that is close. Ok, now show me evidence that “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN”.
Why don’t you first show me where in the 2010 census report that it says 6 percent of Indians are Christians? Just give me the page number of the report.
See page 82. There are around 114 thousand Christians of Indian ethnicity. The total number of Indians in Malaysia is around 1.9 million. The Wikipedia source is accurate.
Okay thanks for the page.
So it begs the question, who are not classified as “Indian”? Shay Adora daughter of Ramachandran Muniandy (aka Mr Hannah Yeoh), as one example, is a Christian child who is not officially categorized as Indian.
Another “not Indian” is KJ John (below). I personally know of others, e.g. Ceylonese Christians who opted for the “lain-lain” classification but they’re not public figures.
To answer your question, demographically the MIC voters would be Hindu. BN wins the rural seats. The estates are in the rural areas. The plantation workers are Hindus because the temples there are to serve their needs.
Demographically the Pakatan voters are urban – as I’ve mentioned before, 88 percent of the urban seats and most of the state capital constituencies are in opposition hands. Do the Indian Christians live in rural areas, i.e. estet terpencil or do they live in the affluent suburbs?
Of course, some of the Indian Hindus are Pakatan people. Ambiga is one example.
“To answer your question, demographically the MIC voters would be Hindu. BN wins the rural seats. The estates are in the rural areas. The plantation workers are Hindus because the temples there are to serve their needs.”
“Demographically the Pakatan voters are urban – as I’ve mentioned before, 88 percent of the urban seats and most of the state capital constituencies are in opposition hands. Do the Indian Christians live in rural areas, i.e. estet terpencil or do they live in the affluent suburbs?”
But not all Indians that live in the urban or suburban areas are Christian. Many Hindus also live in these areas and voted for the Pakatan Rakyat parties.
Of the Indian community (a demographic that is around 86 percent Hindu), only 43 percent supported Barisan Nasional. While the Barisan Nasional may get some Hindu votes, a majority went to the Pakatan Rakyat.
“Of course, some of the Indian Hindus are Pakatan people. Ambiga is one example.”
“Some” is an understatement.
re: “While the Barisan Nasional may get some Hindu votes, a majority went to the Pakatan Rakyat.”
It does not take away from my contention that the Indian Christians are pro-opposition.
Which is still far off from “Christian Indians support the opposition while Hindu Indians support BN” that you claimed earlier.
I maintain
(1) Christian Indians support the opposition
(2) Hindu Indians support BN
but I won’t dispute your assertion that
(3) Hindu Indians support Pakatan
(1) & (2) does not have to be mutually exclusive of (3).
Re your comment on the Chinese being “buta sejarah”.
Yesterday’s Gunting pg 3 ran a piece on Boris Johnson’s visit. Buried in the last few paras was a question by chief Gunting Wong Chun Wai asking how a city could “maintain its national identity amid a high influx of foreigners..”
Gunting quoted his reply: ” To preserve London’s BRITISH identity, Johnson said it was IMPORTANT for students to continue learning and speaking ENGLISH and have KNOWLEDGE and PRIDE about the country’s HISTORY. ”
Substitute the words British and English with Malaysian and BM.
I don’t think that was quite the answer Chun Wai hoped for, which was why it wasn’t highlighted and was only mentioned because he wanted to show off that he had asked Boris a question at a presser.
In every other nation, immigrants assimilate. Our unhappy former citizens enthusiastically embrace the language and culture of their new country, but somehow cannot go beyond “gua” and “lu” here.
Why ah?
http://www.therocket.com.my/en/can-mca-and-gerakan-challenge-umno-the-same-way-dap-challenges-pas/
Baca bagaimana sikap keras Dap terhadap islam. Ia sanggup buat apa saja asalkan syariat islam gagal dilaksanakan.
Xynal,
UMNO bertter takes note. ISMA can in no time be registered as a full fledged political party. So far, ISMA is not showing any antagonism against UMNO.
But If UMNO chooses to irritate Malays by pretending that all are rosy in BN, ISMA will be forced to take up UMNO itself.
What Helen told about Seremban election result is telling. The same thing happened in Alor Setar.
Malays have come to the point that they would rather a Malay from BEBAS to voting MCA candidate EVEN IF THEY PREFER BN. This is the result of relentless slandering Malays face every day.
In last election PAS fared badly in Malay areas in contrast to UMNO’s result in same areas. Why? Because malays cant stomach PAS submitting to DAP.
Let UMNO not ber blind that Malays too will find UMNO hated simply for being too “manja” with MCA. UMNO should be firm to MCA. LET MCA CONTEST ONLY IN CHINESE Areas.
Let us whether Chinese still trust MCA. Let us give credence to MCA by insisting MCA to contest in Chinese areas
The era of goodwill is over. Gone with the wind.. UMNO or more importantly Najib must wake up. OR UMNO be in the drain in PRU14.
I like this:
“BELOW: The evangelista church that looks like a casino” ..
They always trade the religion like gambling.
None of what we see is about right vs wrong, it’s about power vs no power.
CItu Harvest Church Night Club in Bahasa Kelab Malam City Harvest Church wow so lively so cute the lights, the place, the dancing, the singing, the oh,. the .oh .. the ohh… sory cant recall was high on ..oopppps sorry in the wrong place thought it a Club….. No wonder young people find LOVE in here and Pad-rys drive limos….
Helen, with a topic like this, where’s the pic of the 2 iguanas embracing one another ? How could you fail to add THAT pic ? How could you ! l o l !!!
MCA is foolish to lodge police reports against ISMA for the booklets.
As a senior party of the ruling coalition, they should not be engaging in this kind of tit-for-tat / “hor I tell teacher” kind of move.
Hopeless and brainless. Please don’t call yourselves Chinese “leaders” any more because you don’t represent me nor do you do any leading whatsoever. Just know how to react only and react stupidly.
So what do you expect them to do?
Stay quiet, do not make any noise, sit down and be a good dog?
That sort of behaviour is what cost them support from the Chinese.
AC-DC.
For a start, stop being hypocrite.
First, let’s examine the booklet matter. What is the content and the intent? Was the content anything extraordinary? Not really, it is a reiteration of the rights, standing of Malays and Islam here. Nothing that would warrant a police report, right?
Now let’s look at the intent. Could there be elements of rabble rousing in it by their actions of distributing such pamphlets? You could argue that there is a possibility and that some hot heads get upset and start creating havoc. To that end, the MCA doesn’t really need to lodge a report because this is just a guess, a possibility only.
If pressed for a statement, what the MCA should say is “well, Isma isn’t saying anything new or revolutionary but just hope that people don’t take it the wrong way as it being insulting or whatnot”. So if anything does happen, the responsibility falls back on Isma while the MCA can safely say, “see I told you guys to calm down but don’t want to listen. So don’t come crying to me”.
But no, they went and showed the world that they also got butthurt over that booklet and in doing so, just downgraded themselves to fighting with an NGO. So who ends up looking like a bully? The big BN party or the small NGO?
Don’t be so emo, AC-DC .. calling people dogs is not good one.
Ultimately, we want this country to prosper and develop peacefully, right? We may have different opinions on how to do so but you don’t burn down the boat that everyone is on just to prove your point.
Well said C72! Well said!
re Don’t be so emo, AC-DC .. calling people dogs is not good one.
Not emotional but perpetual hysteria and displaying to everyone here the absence or rather the lack of proper upbringing by his parents.
But let’s get real. The people supporting the opposition are renown for their uncouth character. His antics is to be expected.
the booklet is non-sense. you talking about malaya social contract don put malaysia in there.
Sarawak and Sabah does not include in those thing. not even have sultan. nor Islam as State religious.
Edison,
It’s actually a flyer (not a booklet) and you can read it HERE.
Isma wants four items to be off-limits from questioning, i.e.
(1) Islam as Religion of the Federation
(2) Malay Special Position
(3) Sovereignty of the Malay rulers
(4) BM as national language
As I’ve said before, the Raja-Raja Melayu would not have agreed to grant two million jus soli citizenships to the Chinese if Article 153 safeguarding the Malays was not cemented into the Federal Constitution.
Citizenship requirements were liberalized in 1951 and took effect in 1952, and around 1.2 million Chinese got citizenship. This was partly carried out in order to combat the communist threat so that the Chinese population do not support the CTs.
In 1957, Merdeka citizenship was granted en masse, taking effect mostly in 1958. Up to 1960, another estimated 800,000 Chinese were given Merdeka citizenship. All this took place at a time when the total population of Tanah Melayu was only 7 million.
Today the city of Wuhan in Hubei, China has 7 million inhabitants. Do you think that the mayor of Wuhan (if he had the power) would allow two million out of the city’s seven million population to be foreigners of another skin colour (say, Nigerians)? And for these two million Nigerian guest workers to obtain Chinese citizenship all within the span of a single decade?
This was what the Malays granted the Chinese immigrants between 1952 and 1960. Two million new citizens of Chinese ethnicity in a Tanah Melayu population of seven million. If the situation was reversed, do you think Chinese rulers would ever be as generous to foreigners (Malays, Indians, etc)?
Citizens have an obligation to the state, don’t you think? Zinedine Zidane is of Algerian Berber descent but he is a Frenchman and he speaks French. Tell me which citizens are unable to speak their country’s language. Those of Turkish descent living in Germany speak German.
Chinese in Malaysia refuse to speak our national language and spit on BM as economically worthless. Chinese in Malaysia refuse to join the armed forces but prefer to mock our soldiers.
Chinese in Malaysia don’t even want to stand up when our national anthem is played and Negaraku is only 1 minute 23 seconds.
Between Persekutuan Tanah Melayu 1957 and Malaysia 1963 is only a span of 6 years. Tak kan when Malaysia was proclaimed, all our obligations as citizens get thrown out the window.
Malaysia is not a new country. It is a continuation of Malaya. From having an eleven-pointed star in the flag, three more points were added.
The star in our flag was amended to 14-points. This signals that Sabah, Sarawak and S’pore were three additional states. The essential nature of Malaya did not change despite that Sabah & S’wak were allowed certain degrees of autonomy in several important matters.
Isma’s interpretation is that Article 153 of the Federal Constitution is a kind of “social contract” where we have to recognize that the Malays are the definitive race, and Islam has primacy.
When the Malaysia Act came into force, Article 153 on the Malays and Article 3 on ISlam remained unchanged.
To Article 153 was added the provision allowing the natives of Sabah & S’wak to enjoy the Special Position too. Sabah and Sarawak in 1963 did not have any state religion but this did not affect the status of Islam in both the peninsula and the federation.
In 1953, the Sabah constitution was amended to make Islam the state religion.
All these “pillars” are very strongly embedded in the foundation of the state (Malaysia) and they have a moral and legal legitimacy stemming from a continuous, unbroken tradition. Please read, https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/the-1948-federation-of-malaya-agreement/
DAP supporters do not realise this and are picking fights where their own position is insupportable.
I do not believe other countries would tolerate the behaviour of a minority such as the way Chinese are behaving in Malaysia.
Typo
In 1973, the Sabah constitution was amended to make Islam the state religion.
1. Below 4 point is already written in Federal Constitution
(1) Islam as Religion of the Federation
(2) Malay Special Position
(3) Sovereignty of the Malay rulers
(4) BM as national language
therefore, i no need argue for it. But, the thing i want tell you is about your view on Sarawak (especially)
2. i am Sarawakian- Chinese race, i do not agree statement of “malay/ ruler grant my people citizenship.”
The reason is we born, live in Sarawak which do not include in jus soli citizenship in 153 article.
Even our ancestor already have Sarawak citizenship after the kingdom of Sarawak been form at 1841, by James Brooke. Sarawak identitied as a sovereign country which was first recognised by the United States in 1850 and then the United Kingdom in 1863.
If Sarawak still British colony, we will have citizenship with british
if Sarawak independence without forming Malaysia, we have sarawak citizenship.
now we form federation with malaysia, we have malaysia citizenship.
if want to thank and grateful, it will be the land of sarawak and native of sarawak who can live together with us.
* You cant say by accept Sarawak to form malaysia but deny citizen of Sarawak whose race is Chinese.
Please remember there are different of malaya and sarawak. do not take thing for granted. thank.
3. i also disagree Chinese in Malaysia refuse to speak our national language, BM. 99% of Chinese able to communicate BM,BI, BC. i don think you can meet alots of Chinese on street when you talk BM to him/her while he/she reply you in BI or BC.
Mock soldiers/ police can be charged as well. i don think it become a everyday topic of Chinese race to mock these security force.
4. “Chinese in Malaysia don’t even want to stand up when our national anthem is played and Negaraku is only 1 minute 23 seconds.” which is a very serious statement, do you refer to all Chinese, majority Chinese or minority Chinese in Malaysia. this is a great offense to ALL Chinese in Malaysia if you mean ALL CHINESE in Malaysia is NOT respect the national anthem.
5.
Malaysia is a new federation, it form by 4 member (supposedly 5, but Brunei withdraw)
Even Fake malaysia independence day(831) will soon be no mention years (start next year) after awareness of Sarawakian and sabahan about the meaningless of Fake Malaysia independence day.
916 become celebration after 2008 years after a major defeat of BN and raising of importance of Sarawak and Sabah vote. before this, Malaysia day, 916 is just a forgotten day.
22.7.1963, 31.8.1963. become more significant after the awake of sarawak, sabah history.
the star in flag, does not mean sarawak is 1 of 13 state in Malaysia.
For old IC. A= Malaya. K= Sarawak, which remain for the passport. K word found bottom right of Sarawak IC.
6. DAP, PKR, PAS, UMNO, MCA, MIC, all have weakness and agenda. blind follower is useless. while none of them represent a WHOLE race, even UMNO does not mean = malay. thus, DAP does not mean all chinese.
7. “tolerate the behavior of a minority such as the way Chinese are behaving in Malaysia.”
may elaborate:
whose are those chinese?
what behavior which cant be tolerate?
re: “i am Sarawakian- Chinese race, i do not agree statement of “malay/ ruler grant my people citizenship.”
Sarawak does not have a Raja Melayu. So the statement obviously does not apply to you or your state.
Plus the 2 million jus soli citizenships – to which the statement “Malay rulers granted the Chinese immigrants their citizenship” applies – refer to 1952-1960 as I’ve already stated explicitly.
Since Sarawak became a part of the federation only in 1963, then obviously the quid pro quo I mentioned about Article 153 is not in direct relation to Sarawakians.
re: “The reason is we born, live in Sarawak which do not include in jus soli citizenship in 153 article.”
Your Malaysian federal citizenship was largely the doing of the British since Sarawak was a British protectorate, then a crown colony.
re: “Even our ancestor already have Sarawak citizenship after the kingdom of Sarawak been form at 1841, by James Brooke. Sarawak identitied as a sovereign country which was first recognised by the United States in 1850 and then the United Kingdom in 1863.”
Sarawak was not a sovereign country.
re: “If Sarawak still British colony, we will have citizenship with british if Sarawak independence without forming Malaysia, we have sarawak citizenship.”
You might be an Overseas British Citizen like Penangites and Hongkies but that doesn’t mean you get the right to settle in the UK.
re: “You cant say by accept Sarawak to form malaysia but deny citizen of Sarawak whose race is Chinese.”
The two million Chinese new citizens refer to those in the peninsula who obtained their citizenships between 1952 and 1960 (before Sarawak came into the picture). Already said what. You dunno how to read, meh?
re: “99% of Chinese able to communicate BM, BI, BC.”
Hahahaha. Then how come they need BM translators all the time? https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/prk-kajang-chinese-audience-cannot-understand-minister-speaking-in-malay/
re: “Mock soldiers/ police can be charged as well. i don think it become a everyday topic of Chinese race to mock these security force.”
Why don’t you check out what they say about the police, and about the soldiers during Lahad Datu?
re: “this is a great offense to ALL Chinese in Malaysia if you mean ALL CHINESE in Malaysia is NOT respect the national anthem.”
Let’s put it this way. A controversy erupted around the time of Malaysia Day in Sept because some moviegoers didn’t stand up when Negaraku was played in the cinemas. The culprits were Chinese.
re: “Malaysia is a new federation, it form by 4 member (supposedly 5, but Brunei withdraw)”
In which case, we would have a four-pointed star and not a 14-pointed star. Why don’t you go and read the Malaysia Act properly. And also read the Federal Constitution.
re: “Even Fake malaysia independence day(831) will soon be no mention years (start next year) after awareness of Sarawakian and sabahan about the meaningless of Fake Malaysia independence day.”
You sound like you’ve been successfully instigated by the DAP.
re: “the star in flag, does not mean sarawak is 1 of 13 state in Malaysia.”
Go and read the Malaysia Act and the Federal Constitution. Sarawak is one of the states in Malaysia. Our country is made up of 14 states. We are not Malaya + Sarawak + Sabah although both the Borneo states have more autonomy and more advantages (e.g. many Parliament seats) compared with the ones in the peninsula.
re: “For old IC. A= Malaya. K= Sarawak, which remain for the passport. K word found bottom right of Sarawak IC.”
We’re using MyKad now.
Sarawak also retained English as official language much longer than the peninsula. Sarawak having your state election (2011) separately from the rest of us (2013) too. There are exceptions and exemptions specially for Sarawak but that does not make Malaysia 1+1+1. It’s 14.
re: “none of them represent a WHOLE race, even UMNO does not mean = malay. thus, DAP does not mean all chinese.”
Umno does mean Malay although it has a sprinkling of non-Malay members (e.g. Ronald Kiandee) and DAP does symbolize Chinese although it has a sprinkling of non-Chinese members.
re: “tolerate the behavior of a minority such as the way Chinese are behaving in Malaysia.” / “may elaborate: whose are those chinese? what behavior which cant be tolerate?”
Those Chinese whose behavior freaked out Umno and caused the party warlords and big chiefs to pressure Najib Razak to keep the Sedition Act.
re”Hahahaha. Then how come they need BM translators all the time? https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/prk-kajang-chinese-audience-cannot-understand-minister-speaking-in-malay/”
it is very simple, not all is lucky to have education some can be left out for some reason. that the reason she is under ‘Single Mothers’ category in government aid. as she might don even finish her primary school to get a proper job.
not to mention, she only can talk Chinese language and dialect. if she talk mandarin exam(UPSR), she can fail as well.
While Malaysia is only 51 years old, not 57 years old. <
re "Why don’t you check out what they say about the police, and about the soldiers during Lahad Datu?"
you cant take a group of people who talk bad in internet and reflect to all Chinese. myself never talk "cheap" of security force's life at lahad datu.
re: “it is very simple, not all [are] lucky to have education”
In your earlier comment @ 2014/12/06 at 7:27 pm, you said “99% of Chinese able to communicate BM” wor .
In the USA, the poor blacks who lack education and are on welfare speak English.
In Malaysia, we have many cases of Chinese who need translators like that 19-year-old girl who stepped on Najib’s photo and the guy who got into a fight with KFC workers in i-City Shah Alam.
re: “you cant take a group of people who talk bad in internet and reflect to all Chinese”
No, because Chinese here total more than 7 million persons, and we can’t say ALL Chinese are this or like that. However when the other races don’t do it but the Chinese do, then the different attitude is apparent.
e.g. the recent complaints (in Sept) of moviegoers refusing to stand up for Negaraku all involved Chinese. Or take the case of the Malaysian students in Taiwan turning our national flag upside down. We didn’t hear cases of Malaysian Indian students in Mumbai or Malay students in Cairo turning the flag upside down.
Well, lets look at that pamphlet. Yes, Islam is the religion of the Federation, but non-Muslims are given the freedom to practice their religion, as outlined in the Constitution. Isma has a supremacist attitude and phobia toward non-Muslims, for instance, notably demonstrated when they got their panties in a bunch over renovations of a Hindu temple in Klang.
It is ‘kedudukan istimewa’ (special position), not ‘hak istimewa’ (special rights). Also, it has two categories, Malays and non-Malays, the latter categories includes the Muslim and non-Muslim Bumiputeras, and the Orang Asli.
Also, as Mr. Poi has elaborated below, Isma’s chauvinistic booklet is inaccurate, even more so when it comes to the social and political terrain of Sabah and Sarawak.
Yes, we all want this country to develop and prosper peacefully. But it is not done by being submissive to the likes of Isma.
The Orang Asli are not included in Article 153 which specifies Malays and the natives of Sabah and Sarawak. They have, however, special land rights and are probably given other preferential treatment through government policy if not in law (Constitution).