Who’s the bad guy in Taman Medan? THINK DEEPER

April 23, 2015 at 11:24 pm 49 comments

“50 people took it upon themselves to resort to thuggery,” said the NST editorial today on the Taman Medan incident concerning the church cross.

NST considered the protest as one deserving of the label “mindless acts of hatred and intolerance” as well as demonstrating “a regrettable level of religious tolerance among Malaysians”.

The editorial also took it upon itself to lecture, “Arguments that it [the cross] could attract their children away from Islam only embarrasses the religion”.

Taman Medan protestor

Photo from Nicholas Cheng’s Twitter

Intolerant bigots, cries the NST

In the editorial titled ‘No place for intolerance‘ (23 April 2015), NST made out the four dozen or so Taman Medan residents – who had protested against the church cross – to be thugs. The paper also demands that religious bigots not be allowed to get away unpunished.

Well, it does look like NST is ganging up with its fellow English-language newspapers The J-Star and The Sun Daily, the latter whose Letter of the Day today is headlined ‘Public abhorrence against cross mobsters a positive sign‘.

The Sun Daily‘s lead letter by a Christian, Joseph Paul of Seremban, characterizes the Taman Medan G50 as “the mob of self-proclaimed Muslim stalwarts”, participating in “mob activity” and “misguided rabble-rousers” on top of being “arrogant”, “rude” and “very un-Malaysian”.

Church Taman Medan

Jan – June 2014 newspaper circulation figures

  • Sin Chew – 379,504
  • Harian Metro – 313,690
  • The Sun Daily – 305,473
  • The J-Star – 291,068
  • Kosmo! – 197,202
  • Utusan – 171,663
  • NST – 74,711

Source: Audit  Bureau of Circulations, Malaysia

Pix: Buletin Sengal

Photo credit: Buletin Sengal

Thugs, mobsters and racists, say the English papers

Nampaknya the Taman Medan folks kena bambu kaw-kaw – slammed by the smallest circulation mainstream English paper, the NST, to the most widely distributed tabloid, the free paper Sun.

The Umno-owned English daily called them thugs.

They are called “mobsters” in The Sun Daily.

Meanwhile The J-Star screams racism (standard cry of the EvangeliSTAR) and at the same time pushes a self-serving conspiracy theory, claiming in its editorial yesterday, “it is clear that those involved are playing dangerous political games”

The J-Star reporter who covered the Taman Medan event called the protest “sheer stupidity”.

It sure does look like J-Star Dapster reporters such as Nicholas Cheng are inspired in their choice of vocabulary by their DAP icons such as Mama (her Twitter exchange below with the infamous cina™ @YouTiup). Madame Speaker had ascribed “stupidity” too, to one particularly pugnacious BN politician.

stupidity hannahyeoh


Hannah Yeoh further poured oil on the Christian vs Muslim tensions by alluding to the Taman Medan protestors as extremists.

MCA wants the G50 investigated for sedition.

DAP and MCA are on the same page and not bothering to hide it anymore. MCA went into a frenzy issuing press statements and its Nest of Evangelista media gave the confrontation daily saturation coverage in its pages.

BELOW: Jahabar Sadiq (TMI), Lee Hwa Beng (MCA), Lim Guan Eng & Zairil Khir Johari (DAP)


MCA has sacked Lee Hwa Beng. When is Umno going to sack MCA?


“White Man speak with forked tongue”

The polarization between English-language speakers and Malay-language speakers is visible to see. While the media commentary in English (including the NST‘s) has been very harsh on the Taman Medan G50, the opinions expressed in Malay, on the other hand, take the opposite tack.

This dichotomy illustrates how a person’s stand (stance) depends on where he sits. The perspective from the Malay worldview and the perspective of those who are Western-inclined are situated on two different planes. In other words, how an event is interpreted is also coloured by the storyteller’s point of view.

In spaghetti Westerns produced in the Hollywood studio, the cowboys are always the heroes while the “Red Indians” are invariably the bad guys. A typical trope is that of the white settler families in their wagons surrounded by whooping Red Indians shooting arrows.

Yet the ‘Circle the Wagon’ scene depicting the band of Red Indians as the villain is merely one small piece of the big tapestry and giving a false impression and erroneous understanding of the real situation.

It was really the native Red Indians who were encircled and endangered by the foreign invaders.


Hullo, the Red Indians were the victims!

The Indian tribes were the natives of America, both in the north and south of the continent.

Christians were the invaders, destroyers who sailed from Europe. They came and they conquered (called Christian ‘Conquistadors’ in South America).

It was the White Man who attacked and killed the Indians. The White Man had guns and cannons. The “redskins” only had tomahawks, bows and knives.

It was the White Man who stole Indian land and drove the original inhabitants from their ancestral homes.

Laments the Indian: “To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret.” – Chief Seattle


love kills

Trail of Tears

“At the beginning of the 1830s, nearly 125,000 Native Americans lived on millions of acres of land in Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, North Carolina and Florida – land their ancestors had occupied and cultivated for generations. By the end of the decade, very few natives remained anywhere in the southeastern United States.”

“Working on behalf of white settlers who wanted to grow cotton on the Indians’ land, the federal government forced them to leave their homelands and walk thousands of miles to a specially designated ‘Indian territory’ across the Mississippi River. This difficult and sometimes deadly journey is known as the Trail of Tears.”

See, http://www.history.com/topics/native-american-history/trail-of-tears

Mary's Creek Blood

It was an Apocalypse alright

It was the paleface who massacred the Indian nations. It was the Christians who perpetrated genocide and destroyed a people and their culture and way of life.

Yet the whites and the cowboys are portrayed as the good guys in pop culture. Huh?

So don’t believe all the stories spun to you over popcorn.

ChiefSeattleThe Suquamish tribe – to which Chief Seattle (pix) belonged – had lived in central Puget Sound, in the north west coast of North America, for approximately 10,000 years. Then came the deadly Christians …

Prof. Ward Churchill wrote with regard to the human devastation:
“All told, the North American Indian population within the area of the 48 contiguous states of the United States, an aggregate group which had probably numbered in excess of 12 million in the year 1500, was reduced by official estimates to barely more than 237,000 four centuries later. This vast genocide historically paralleled in its magnitude and degree only by that which occurred in the Caribbean Basin is the most sustained on record. Corresponding almost perfectly with this upper-90th-percentile erosion of indigenous population by 1900 was the expropriation of about 97.5 percent of native land by 1920. The situation in Canada was/is entirely comparable.” See, ‘History Not Taught is History Forgot: Columbus’ Legacy of Genocide
Excerpts from the text of Chief Seattle’s Treaty Oration – 1854

“The white chief says that Big Chief at Washington sends us greetings of friendship and goodwill.

“This is kind of him for we know he has little need of our friendship in return. His people are many. They are like the grass that covers vast prairies. My people are few. They resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain.

“The great, and I presume – good, White Chief sends us word that he wishes to buy our land but is willing to allow us enough to live comfortably. This indeed appears just, even generous, for the Red Man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, as we are no longer in need of an extensive country.”

shoot the Indian

“Soon they will fill all the land”

“There was a time when our people covered the land as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor, but that time long since passed away with the greatness of tribes that are now but a mournful memory. I will not dwell on, nor mourn over, our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers with hastening it, as we too may have been somewhat to blame.

“Youth is impulsive. When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, it denotes that their hearts are black, and that they are often cruel and relentless, and our old men and old women are unable to restrain them. Thus it has ever been.” – Chief Seattle

Creek Mary´s Blood

Nightwish song – part sang in Lakota dialect: “Our spirit was here long before you, long before us, and long will it be after your pride brings you to your end”

“No; we are two distinct races with separate origins and separate destinies. There is little in common between us.” – Chief Seattle


Remember how The Sneaky Star tried to manufacture consent?

The J-Star slanted its report to mislead readers that the Taman Medan Malays actually did not mind the presence of the new evangelical church with its huge cross.

The paper (online version) kicked off its breaking news article by quoting a fast food outlet Malay manager, aged 50, as saying that she had no problem with the church operating there. The J-Star then quoted, secondly, a 60-year-old van driverwho said he does not see a problem either “as long as they don’t disturb anyone”.

turunkan-salib1It is evident that the Nest of Evangelistas was cherrypicking quotes from interviewees so that its selective presentation framed the story in the manner of their desired Bangsa Malaysia narrative, which in actual fact is quite contrary to the truth out there.

The paper misrepresented the issue to paint a false positive about the presence of the minority Christians evangelizing in Taman Medan albeit giving a nod to “mixed feelings” of the majority Malay residents.

Subsequent coverage of the Taman Medan affair saw the J-Star desperately trying to set its pro-Christian agenda and twisting to favour and to fit the storyline which the EvangeliSTAR already had in mind.

The unhappiness among conservative BN crowd from this episode is going to impact negatively on Umno due to the opposition’s control of public perception through media and making the Malay party members look bad.

Najib Razak’s popularity with the Umno grassroots whose votes will be surely be affected from this Taman Medan fallout because the PM is allowing the evangelista media to get away with their demonizing of the Malay Muslims.


Najib listening intently to J-Star CEO Wong Chun Wai


“Who gives you the right to claim this land as Muslim land?” – J-Star reporter on Taman Medan


Entry filed under: Evangeliblis. Tags: , , , , , .

NST taking lessons from J-Star? “Barbaric !” – Guan Eng on Taman Medan protesters

49 Comments Add your own

  • 1. ED  |  April 24, 2015 at 12:19 am

    Ms H. If our beloved Malaysia signs the Singapore inspired and created poison chalice TPPA, the Malays will die like the North American Indians of North America. They signed. They died without a whimper. The non-Malays suffer a fate worse than death because they had no power to sign their own death warrant. Vide.UNCTAD, Geneva. Rashmi Banga.’ TPPA: Implications for Malaysia’s Domestic Value Added Trade.2014. Many other papers giving unfavourable reports. Free Malaysia lives by being a trading Nation, not a consumer Nation of foreign goods like in the colonial days.

    • 2. Chris  |  April 24, 2015 at 8:37 am

      How would a TPPA give foreign investors special rights over our government?

      Foreign firms who might be affected by Malaysia’s laws would have to be consulted and the government would have to show how it has responded to their viewpoints. Foreign investors could sue the government for hundreds of millions of dollars for breaching their rights under the TPPA, for example by changing our laws in ways that affect their “expected profits or share value”. But the case would be heard in a secretive international tribunal, not in our domestic courts!


      “At the heart it is a huge lie which pretends this is about trade,” she said. “It’s not about trade, it’s about allowing foreign corporations to override the decisions of democratically elected governments . . . The fact that it has a specific clause in it to allow investor corporations to sue our Government if it takes any actions which reduces their profits … that is the most anti-democratic thing that has ever happened in my lifetime.”

      *Why is Lee Hsien Loong such an avid campaigner for the TPPA?

  • 3. EVLee  |  April 24, 2015 at 1:53 am

    Well … as for me, as much as I had liked those old cowboy movies, I had learnt the word propaganda much later on. Propaganda over popcorn … sheesshh(for getting suckered).

    I was not able to get much of what had happened in Africa though … despite the fact that there’s a quote for that region that goes something like this:

    “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

    • 4. shamshul anuar  |  April 24, 2015 at 9:10 am


      What disturb and upset me is total silence of UMNO’s leaders on this matter.

      Najib makes it worse by threatening Sedition Act on these protesters. ARE THESE PEOPLE that dangerous in comparison to Guan Eng who creates equivalent of 3 battalion of “armies” not loyal to Yang DiPertuan Agung.

      Where are Muhyidin, Shafie, Hishamudin, Dr zahid?

      • 5. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:02 am

        re: “Where are Muhyidin, Shafie, Hishamudin, Dr zahid?”

        Zahid was very quick to say that they were liable to be investigated for sedition.

      • 6. orangkampung  |  April 24, 2015 at 1:16 pm

        In the spirit of solidarity with the PM, did you think that any of the Umno leaders would dare say anything that may be seen as not pro-Najib?

        I am actually praying that Umno would win with a margin of less than 1000 in Rompin just to show Umno that while the majority may not like the opposition we are also not happy with Umno. If the Felda leaders there read please do something that will make my wish a reality.

      • 7. Spin6996  |  April 24, 2015 at 5:50 pm

        UMNO only voice out when Najib is being attacked and shouts in deafening voice Heil Najib… In all other arena, they are silent as the lamb. They just don’t know how to handle these kind of situation. They don’t have a clue. The end is near for UMNO.

        • 8. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 7:33 pm

          re: “UMNO only voice out when Najib is being attacked and shouts in deafening voice Heil Najib… In all other arena, they are silent as the lamb”

          It is criminal of Najib to allow the evangelistas control of the national narrative and to be able to brainwash esp. the urban middle classes through their sneaky spinmasters and domination of the media.

          In truth, Chinese Buddhists and Taoists as well as Indian Hindus are uncomfortable with the evangelistas too. It’s just that comparatively, they dislike Umno, BN, Malays and Islam a lot more. So, for the sake of political expediency and support for the chief opposition party (DAP), they’re willing to keep quiet about the Christian triumphalism.

    • 9. amir yusof  |  April 24, 2015 at 4:54 pm

      There are ;
      Christians who “reads” the “book” for their self enlightenment (menjadi insan yg baik) .
      “Christians” who “used” the “book” for accumulating worldly needs ( “cari makan” ) .
      Begitu juga ;
      Muslims and the “Muslims” , ……………………. dll .

  • 10. LY  |  April 24, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Growing up in the 60s, it wasn’t just the Red Indians being depicted as the villains while the cowboys were the victims/heroes. The Germans were also potrayed to be the bad guys at all times in all the American TV shows/movies.

    • 11. LY  |  April 24, 2015 at 8:33 am

      typo error – portrayed not “potrayed”

    • 12. orangkampung  |  April 24, 2015 at 1:30 pm

      That was understandable. Germany because of Hitler were the bad guys for a while, then the Vietnamese over the Vietnam war, the Koreans, Russia over the Cold War period. The current favourite villains are the Muslims whether from the Mid-East, or the ‘Stans. Soon that’s going to include the Chinese, I’m sure.

      The main difference between these villains and the native Americans is that the natives were almost entirely blameless. They definitely did not start the fire. They were just sitting around their fires minding their own business when the foreigners came and blast them off for being savages and therefore deserved to be killed.

      • 13. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm

        re: “blast them off for being savages”

        Savages because they were not European race and not a part of Christendom.

        The same slurs are being used against the Taman Medan protestors – “uncilivized” and “barbaric”.

        • 14. shamshul anuar  |  April 24, 2015 at 7:03 pm


          “blast them…”

          The whole episode reminds me of the movie Pocahontas. Pocahontas was upset when John Smith said her people were savages.

          She then asked John Smith was it because they are not like him(John smith).

          So we can pretty much predict life should PR( meaning DAP) take over. Question him and you are a barbaric.

          • 15. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 7:10 pm

  • 16. Ruzaimi Abu Bakar  |  April 24, 2015 at 8:53 am

    evlee…..love the quote!

  • 17. LY  |  April 24, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Another reason why reading TMI will only damage your brain permanently…” Taman Medan Church Fiasco” :-


  • 18. peacecombe  |  April 24, 2015 at 9:46 am

    “inventors of evil”

  • 19. Dandy  |  April 24, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Pity our own Orang Asli, Ibans, Dayaks, Bajaus, Muruts, Semai, Laut, Senois, Sulus, Kelabits etc who were just like the Red Indians before their lands were taken over by Malays, Chinese, Indians etc migrating from Indonesia, China, India, Middle East, Africa, Thailand, Philippines.

    And now claiming they were the original inhabitants and sons of the soil.

    It’s the same with religion change in Malaya. At first it was mostly animistic, then Buddhism, then Hinduism and now mostly Moslems.

    History is always written by the victors anyway and sudden archaelogical discoveries which debunk some historical accounts as taught in schools will always remain hidden or hushed up.

    That’s why those ISIS guys destroying Nimrud just want to destroy past historical evidence and rewrite history according to their version. Same goes for those Talibans destroying thousand years old statues of Buddhism in Afghanistan.

    And in Malaysia, we have seen the beginning of Talibanisation and Isis ideology among the 50 mob enforcers of religion and laws happening in Kg Medan.

    And one of them happen to be the brother of the IGP and most of them members of UMNO. Will they stone adulterers next in Kg. Medan?

    It’s just the beginning. First the Christians with their crosses, then the Buddhists, Taiosts, Hindus with their idols, then others without idols, then the same Moslems of different sects like Shites etc

    And to finally establish a purest of pure Islamic Nation ruled by a Caliph under Syariah Laws Hudud.

    And HA, Isma or whatever adherents of such ideology lived happily ever after among themselves in this blessed land.

    • 20. jentayu  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:37 am

      haiyaa dandy ah. how can you draw similarity between the plight of indian and orang asli?

      atrocity against indian were recorded including maiming, killing, land grabbing in the name of Christ and white supremacy. the same cannot be said of malay kingdom/government on orang asli.

      so please try harder next time in your archaeology? but don’t tipu-tipu ok?

      • 21. Sarah  |  April 24, 2015 at 2:53 pm

        Let’s me tell you a secret about orang Asli whom a lots of time people’s thinks a backward, poor and not so smart people’s.

        they’re not. If Astro is the indicator of well to do people’s, we’re far behind coz in one of the villagers I’m visiting almost all households have one.

        They maybe selling only petai and jering but theirs incomes from selling this forest “delicacy” is a lot higher then avarage lower classes in Malaysia. Not to mention some even now planting this “delicacy fruits” in the forest and selling it in bulk to town people’s.

        They’re so biz savvy that they can sell almost anything to townsfolk by using a taglines “from the forest”. You name it, durian hutan which more expensive than durian kg or buah keranji which cost rm10 for a handfuls and still this townspeople buy it.

        Furthermore they now integrated into the mainstream that if they not announced that they’re Orang Asli a lot of times you will assumed they’re a Malay.

        Townsfolk who Looking at their houses, motorcycle and theirs road stall assumed they were poor, uneducated and lazy people’s. While the truth is they were smarter than them.


    • 22. Abdullah  |  April 24, 2015 at 3:41 pm

      re : “That’s why those ISIS guys destroying Nimrud just want to destroy past historical evidence and rewrite history according to their version. Same goes for those Talibans destroying thousand years old statues of Buddhism in Afghanistan.”

      How the majority “Ahli Sunnah wal Jamaah” scholarship view the radical “Islamic State caliphate” :
      Dr Shabir Ally (Canada) and Nouman Ali Khan (USA)



      Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

  • 23. Mulan of Malaysia  |  April 24, 2015 at 10:28 am

    More Alvin Tan! This time Yeo Bee Yin kena pulak!

    Here he goes again. And his commenters starting insulting Rania Raisha Yeap for being a mualaf.

    Jan Lin U friend with Felicia Yeap Raisha rahnia? https://m.facebook.com/FelixiaYeapOfficialPage…. You two superb together! 99% match! Both of u lead the new gen malaysian Chinese to ” apostasy “!

  • 24. Mulan of Malaysia  |  April 24, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Here is something positive about Islam from Rania Raisha Yeap

  • 25. irma  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:08 am

    The plight of the Red Indians or Native Americans is one of the most tragic in history. “Bury my heart at Wounded Knee” (if I remember the title of the book correctly) was really depressing. There was a quote by a chief who said something like “the white man made us many promises but kept none except one; they promised to take our land and they did.”

    And what about the Conquistadors? They brought smallpox, syphilis and other diseases which wiped out the Incas, Msyans and Aztecs? All for the lust of gold!

    Then the priests came and mass converted the natives. And Commodore Perry with his gunboat diplomacy against the Shogun and samurai?

    White man very avaricious lah. In Asia, Africa etc.

    • 26. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:17 am

      re: “wiped out the Incas, Mayans and Aztecs? All for the lust of gold!”

      3G (Gold, Glory, Gospel) credo inherited by the Greedy evangelistas. No need to look far. See how many hundreds of millions the City Harvest Church cult has amassed.

      We don’t hear of mosques in Singapore and Malaysia making / “harvesting” millions of ringgit.

      re: “White man very avaricious lah. In Asia, Africa etc.”

      Their incarnation – the wannabes – are just as avaricious, if not more.

      • 27. shamshul anuar  |  April 24, 2015 at 7:05 pm


        Nearer to home Spanish Conquistadors offered choice of Christianity or deaths when they conquered land now known as Philipines.

  • 29. madu tualang  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:43 am

    dulu aku suka najib tapi sekarang aku benci najib. diA TAK PERLU UNDI MELAYU.

  • 30. maae  |  April 24, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Do the evangelists bother to think ? Or that stupid- no learn history young wartawan ? He’s lucky that his mere stupidity too, didnt turn things upside down. He’s just lucky, recued by another senior wartawan. Where is that hannah Yeoh ? Still tweeting? Still pointing fore finger? Still being hypocrite, visiting suraus, masjid and barbieplay ? Still carrying “double love” heart, evangelistas at most (or simply say modern chinese) and muslims (Melayu) at least ?

    You see Helen. I am a Malay Islam. I don’t simply poke on my non muslim friends, their religion or believe, their rumah ibadat or even small ritual red hut anywhere accident happened, hindus’ ritual “busut,” or even cross on the road.. – apa lagi.with the “official rumah ibadat” . Allah forbids us(muslims) not to do such aggressions unless… (please refer, now I think you know the answer, especially you’re becoming somebody that rocky’s bru named it after you.. high appreciation ok..)

    Maybe, Najib,again, is searching popularity among them. Maybe he doesn’t need Malays’ support anymore… or he’s just confused and blurred again of maybe no to being biased since stress was at peak caused by Tun M..he..he… DS Najib must reply again, but not like this Taman Medan, as Annie put it a quick gun draw – anyhow it ain’t no slinger, the way I see it… or maybe his “time is up” since the last chedet’s article-1MDB – concluded the necessity… doggone !!!

    Whatever, it all depends on us. Seek refuge then you get it. Seek Allah”s forgiveness, that’s the best being a muslim.

    You seek enemies, then youre nobody ! You spread love its no better than longkang! Failed to read between the lines, then you’re no credible wartawan ! Just plain stupid. Bangang !

  • 31. HH  |  April 24, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    In the spirit of commemorating senseless lives lost in the name of fear and religiousity, today is the commemoration day for the 1.5 million Armenians who lost their lives to the Ottomans.

    May lessons be learned and common sense prevails.


    • 32. norha  |  April 24, 2015 at 3:22 pm

      what about 1,5 million and counting died in drone attack across mid east and pakistan?

      • 33. HH  |  April 24, 2015 at 4:24 pm

        Well, for starters you may consider starting some sort of petition to the relevant councils to select a day to honor the victims of drone attacks in the Middleast. (and Pakistan)

        In the meantime, let’s not take anything away from the Armenians. April 24 is the official commemoration day of the Armenian genocide.


  • 34. ebyre  |  April 24, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    I’m very sad the 50 odd persons became the centre of controversial Taman Medan. They merely showed their displeasure at something that they thought shouldn’t be there in the first, more so in Malay Muslim majority area.

    Now we have UMNO leaders ‘melatah’ and jump straight to newly passed Seditious Act. I’m very afraid that Najib’s press statement would open flood gate to encroachment of this matter in other Malay Muslim majority areas or an open licence to Evangelist in their Christianization push.

    On the contrary, both political divide had lost the focus on the illegality of the Church existence. Complete silence on this matter except confirmation by MBPJ on its status.

    Why Najib govt is so naive on some the anti Islamic behaviour of some of the DAP leaders.. to date none is being charged and yet they still harping on the same issue and oblivious to Muslim sensitivity.

    Govt ask Muslims to be tolerant and practise moderation, but on the other hand we have groups seemed to be aggressively intrude into others religious practices. This one sided actions must be stopped before it is too late.

    • 35. bnm  |  April 24, 2015 at 6:25 pm

      re: On the contrary, both political divide had lost the focus on the illegality of the Church existence. Complete silence on this matter except confirmation by MBPJ on its status.

      There was a subsequent statement made by Exco confirming that the church is legal. The Exco is a higher authority and she has corrected the statement made by MBPJ. Even the MB has advised the church to put back the cross.

      • 36. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 6:41 pm


        Does the state exco have authority if it contravenes federal?

        • 37. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 8:51 am

          re: Does the state exco have authority if it contravenes federal?

          Shamrahayu Abdul Aziz said: “In its fifth clause, it says that the freedom of religion will not be guaranteed by the constitution if it affects national security, public order, public health or morality,”

          Too bad she merely cite the law in general terms without specifying the actual provision.

          The real question: Which part of the law that the church contravenes (whether the law is FedCon, parliament act, state enactment, local authority by-law)? Now even the MB said the church should reinstate the display of the cross.

          • 38. Helen Ang  |  April 27, 2015 at 9:04 am

            What Prof. Shamrahayu says is the consonant with the finding of Court of Appeal in their judgment on the Herald case.

            To paraphrase the justices, if there is a threat to public order arising from a certain aspect in the practice of Christianity (i.e. using the ‘Allah’ word), then absolute freedom of religion must be curtailed (i.e. Herald not allowed to use the ‘Allah’ word).

            Article 11: “Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion and, subject to Clause (4), to propagate it.”

            Clause (5) “This Article does not authorize any act contrary to any general law relating to public order, public health or morality.”

            There’s also Article 3: “Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.”

            When the result is arson and firebombing of churches, then Christianity is not being practised in a situation of peace and harmony.

            • 39. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 9:16 am

              re: What Prof. Shamrahayu says is the consonant with the finding of Court of Appeal in their judgment on the Herald case.

              Don’t think you can equate Herald and the church protest.

              In the Herald case, there is an express prohibition by the government to prohibit the use of such words in the publication of Herald.

              As per my understanding in Selangor, Eli Wong already said no permit is needed to operate a church in business premise.

              “MBPJ Councillors also clarified that since 2008, the previous State Committee on Non-Islam Affairs (then known as State Committee on Non-Islam Places of Worship) has allowed churches to operate in commercial premises or offices without the need for application of permits, but only by way of notification to the committee. – See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/no-permit-required-for-churches-in-shoplots-says-selangor-exco#sthash.vD8VtL75.dpuf

              I take it as the church is operating legally. Correct me if wrong.

              • 40. Helen Ang  |  April 27, 2015 at 10:04 am

                re: “In the Herald case, there is an express prohibition by the government to prohibit the use of such words in the publication of Herald.”

                Fair enough and valid point. I’m referring to a possible ‘parallel’ in the security situation, i.e. the potential for unrest and the pre-emptive strike.

                The protest was a form of coercion but it did not cross the line to any physical violence. It might have breached the PAA though but then again, this would still be contingent on the status of the ‘church’ – whether legal or not.

                re: “Eli Wong already said no permit is needed to operate a church in business premise.”

                See, http://www.themalaymailonline.com/what-you-think/article/elizabeth-wong-is-wrong-concerned-lawyers-for-justice

                CLJ would also like to bring to the attention of Elizabeth Wong the applicable law in this regard, namely Subsection 70(12) of the Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974 which reads as follows:-

                “Any person who uses any building or part of a building for a purpose other than which it was originally constructed for without the prior written permission from the local authority shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand ringgit and shall also be liable to a further fine not exceeding five hundred ringgit for every day during which the offence is continued after a notice to cease using for other purpose has been served on such person.”

                The Taman Medan church should be fined RM25,000 for contravening the law.

                The Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974 is a gazetted piece of legislation.

                re: “I take it as the church is operating legally. Correct me if wrong.”

                You could be wrong. The Muslim NGO activist lawyers will probably be taking this up.

                On the other hand, what Eli Wong decrees is only a diktat issued under the radar (prior to this episode, few members of the public were aware of HESI and its waiver) by the Pakatan exco upon assuming power in 2008.

                Between what’s in the statute books and what the exco says, I should think the former is more reliable.

                • 41. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 11:23 am

                  re: Subsection 70(12) of the Street, Drainage and Building Act 1974

                  Good point. I would like to highlight in particular:

                  “without the prior written permission from the local authority”.

                  CLJ has expressed the same concern by saying:

                  “Therefore, CLJ views with disquiet the supposed practice of the Selangor local authorities and HESI in not requiring written permission in respect of the operation of churches since 2008 and urges the relevant authorities to investigate this matter”.

                  Guess we can only wait for Eli Wong to respond to CLJ.

  • 42. bnm  |  April 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    Based on the latest count, I can see more people from various entities expressed their disagreement of the protest. Only a few expressed their support, eg. Isma. This is a clear cut case whereby the protesters are a fault. Even, Ibrahim Ali disagreed with the protesters.

    • 43. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 6:44 pm

      If you read TMI, of course lah. I’ve already said the reactions reflect a language divide.

      • 44. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 8:55 am

        Yes. I do read TMI.They are reporting the disagreement expressed by eg. UMNO, MCA, MIC, BN Sabah/Sarawak parties etc. Even by Jakim, Ibrahim Ali and Perlis mufti. So far, none of the above requested TMI to withdraw the articles. I take it that the articles are correct as of now.

        • 45. Helen Ang  |  April 27, 2015 at 10:15 am

          You still haven’t provided me the link to which Ibrahim Ali article that you were referring to.

          As for TMI, I’ve come to the point of approaching anything they report with disbelief unless it is corroborated by some other more credible media.

          Before the Majlis Raja-Raja complaint, Dr Maza (Mufti Perak) protested that TMI twisted his words. Post the Majlis Raja-Raja complaint, Minister Wahid Omar similarly protested that TMI twisted his words.

          Following Wahid, there was yet another complaint in the Malay blogs about yet another misrepresentation by TMI.

          • 46. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 11:03 am

            re: You still haven’t provided me the link to which Ibrahim Ali article that you were referring to.



            re: As for TMI, I’ve come to the point of approaching anything they report with disbelief unless it is corroborated by some other more credible media.

            No corroboration is necessary. Moreover, how to determine the credibility of a media? The better way is to look at the source. Any media that published wrong/inaccurate/false news will be immediately noticed by the concerned party.

            For example, The Star and FMT links above were dated 21/4 and 23/4. Already few days have passed. If Dr. Maza and Ibrahim were aggrieved by the said articles (eg. twisting of words, misquoted, misrepresented etc) they would have taken action against the media or issued clarification. Just like how politicians took action against certain media. As of the time and date of writing this, I am not aware of any claim of wrong/inaccurate/false made. Hence, I would say as of now the 2 links that provided are accurate.

            • 47. Helen Ang  |  April 27, 2015 at 11:24 am

              Okay, will read the Ibrahim Ali link shortly.

              re: “Moreover, how to determine the credibility of a media?”

              As far as I’m aware, the Majlis Raja-Raja has never complained about any other media than TMI misreporting. It might well be unprecedented too for the Majlis Raja-Raja to lodge a police report against (such an in”credible”) media outlet.

              re: “The better way is to look at the source. Any media that published wrong/inaccurate/false news will be immediately noticed by the concerned party.”

              Generally, yes. So many parties have complained about TMI.

              As I’ve been repeating, TMI fitnah Mukhriz and the MB Kedah sent TMI a lawyer’s letter of demand. In fact, TMI set a record for having to make four apologies in a single week due to all their bohong and putar belit. One of the apologies was made to Tun.

              re: “For example, The Star and FMT links above were dated 21/4 and 23/4. Already few days have passed. If Dr. Maza and Ibrahim were aggrieved by the said articles (eg. twisting of words, misquoted, misrepresented etc) they would have taken action against the media or issued clarification.”

              Previously over the Kelantan hudud issue, Dr Maza did make a clarification in his Facebook. He said that the public must beware portals (he means TMI) spinning and he was explicit that his words were twisted.

              First time I’ll be reading (afterwards, your link) Ibrahim Ali’s statement on the church cross, so I have no comment at the moment.

              re: “Just like how politicians took action against certain media.”

              Yes, and corporate figures too. Tajuddin Ramli threatened to sue TMI for millions. TMI made a grovelling apology – as per his demand – in an English and a Malay newspaper.

              It would be in order for the police to take action against TMI since the Sultans are not corporate figures nor politicians and as such, need not take their case to civil court.

              re: “As of the time and date of writing this, I am not aware of any claim of wrong/inaccurate/false made. Hence, I would say as of now the 2 links that provided are accurate.”

              I did not say that the Ibrahim Ali quote is false. I said that given TMI‘s track record of putar belit, I would take what they say with a bucket of salt.

              However if the news came from Bernama, say, then I wouldn’t have this attitude of automatically second-guessing its authenticity as I do with TMI pieces.

    • 48. Helen Ang  |  April 24, 2015 at 6:45 pm

      re: “Even, Ibrahim Ali disagreed with the protesters.”

      Can give the article link? Nih saya nak baca.


Dijemput memberi komen anda

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed

My blog, my like

Helen Ang

Recent Posts

RSS TKO — Tranungkite

  • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.


April 2015
« Mar   May »


  • 7,684,062 hits



%d bloggers like this: