Is Najib getting new evangelical Christian consultants?

May 31, 2015 at 5:16 pm 75 comments

Is Najib Razak going to be patron of the Christians for Peace and Harmony Malaysia like how he’s patron to Saifuddin Abdullah’s Moderates group?

BELOW: Now it’s “Voices” of Peace and Harmony following in the footsteps of the EvangeliSTAR‘s Voices of Moderation

cphm

It is reported that Putrajaya has endorsed this new evangelical Christian group. See ‘New Christian grouping to be launched by Najib‘ in FMT yesterday.

Najib is scheduled to officiate the grand launching of the Christians for Peace and Harmony NGO at the Majestic Hotel in KL on Tuesday.

Wong Kim Kong

New NGO chairman is a staunch evangelist

The chairman of Christians for Peace and Harmony is Rev. Wong Kim Kong – pix above – who is executive advisor of the National Evangelical Christian Fellowship and previously NECF sec-gen for 12 years.

Rev. Wong Kim Kong is the same evangelical leader in the photo below seated beside Lim Guan Eng, Tony Pua, Teresa Kok, Hannah Yeoh and Dr Cheah Wing Yin DAP Damansara Utama Adun (2008-2013).

Berita-NECF-March-April-08-02

Meek and mild Christian leading Peace and Harmony NGO

Another church elder involved with Christians for Peace and Harmony is Lee Min Choon (pix below) who is the former president of the Bible Society of Malaysia, importer of the ‘Allah’ Bibles.

When the Bible Society was raided by Jais, Lee Min Choon complained that the Selangor Islamic Department officers “behaved like thugs”. See TMI screenshot below.

The day religious officers policed another faith in Malaysia

Bible Society (then) president: “Jais can kick down the door of the church today and burst into homes looking for the Alkitab”

Lee told TMI:

“Right from law school, we were taught that Islamic authorities only have jurisdiction over Muslims. But when I saw this bunch of thugs trying to force their way in, seizing our property and arresting me, I was utterly shocked and surprised that something like this could happen in Malaysia.”

Lee also said in his interview with TMI:

“You could be at home spending personal time with your husband and they could kick down the door because they are looking for a book with the word Allah in it,” he said. […]

“So unless something is done to address the situation, it can happen again tomorrow, Jais can kick down the door of the church today and burst into homes looking for the Alkitab. And they have the police to provide the jails to hold all those arrested,” he said.

The day religious officers policed another faith in Malaysia passage

The day religious officers policed another faith in Malaysia passage

Below is Christians for Peace and Harmony chairman Rev. Wong Kim Kong pictured previously with Wong Chun Wai, the J-Star CEO who appears to be pushing an evangelista agenda.

WCWnecf

In his blog today former Information Minister Zainuddin Maidin had cautioned, “Awasi anasir subversif di media cetak Umno arus perdana”.

Zam’s warning should wisely be extended to “Awasi juga anasir subversif di media cetak MCA arus perdana”.

The Malay Mail reports that the Christians for Peace and Harmony group is “backed by Putrajaya”.

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75 Comments Add your own

  • 1. HH  |  May 31, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    Helen

    You were the one complainning about the DAP evangelicals hitching political milleage on Christian votes.

    One would think you would approve Najib’s move to dampen the Opposition’s Christian momentum with this endorsement.

    Reply
    • 2. Helen Ang  |  May 31, 2015 at 7:50 pm

      If Najib were to endorse a radically ultra Chinese NGO today, do you think his endorsement would dampen the Opposition’s Chinese momentum?

      Reply
      • 3. HH  |  May 31, 2015 at 8:12 pm

        Christians are known to wear their heart on their sleeve, remember?

        Never underestimate what a little goodwill can do.

        Reply
        • 4. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 1, 2015 at 12:31 pm

          The last time a Christian clan took on the Emperor…

          http://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/17/books/the-clan-that-changed-china.html?pagewanted=1

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Soong
          “In 1894, Charlie Soong made the arguably most important connection in his life when he met Sun Yat-Sen at a Sunday service in a Methodist church in Shanghai. The two men were kindred spirits of sorts, sharing their Western education, region of birth, dialect, the Christian faith and a burning ambition and craving for change in China. Perhaps most importantly, they were both members of entwined anti-Manchu triads. They quickly became good friends and Charlie started funding Sun’s campaigns. A political body was set up, and the plan was to connect the triads into a network of opposition. When their first attempt at uprising failed in 1895, Sun fled China, and would not come back until sixteen years later. Charlie had remained incognito during the resistance and deemed it safe to remain in Shanghai, as his name had not yet been connected to the failed coup. In the coming years, Charlie Soong funded Sun Yat-Sen’s travels in search of support and major financial backing.[5]”

          We got the last emperor, two Chinas and horrors…. MCA! Never underestimate what a little goodwill could do.

          Reply
          • 5. tebing tinggi  |  June 1, 2015 at 12:54 pm

            Let the ongoing PM endorse it , while other Malaysian anxiously waiting for the new PM .

            Reply
          • 6. HH  |  June 1, 2015 at 9:24 pm

            I see goodwill does not sit well with the cynic in you.

            Had Sun been successful in his aspiration for a democratic Chinese Republic, then 50 million don’t have to perish under Mao and the Chinese migrants here would have mostly make their way home.

            Reply
            • 7. islam1st  |  June 2, 2015 at 12:16 am

              ‘Had Sun been successful in his aspiration for a democratic Chinese Republic, then 50 million don’t have to perish under Mao and the Chinese migrants here would have mostly make their way home.’

              Ye ke? So apart from UMNO, you guys are blaming Mao and Sun for being made ‘second class’ is it?

              Reply
  • 8. orangkampung  |  May 31, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    Sigh…
    Macam mana nak angkat sepanduk “I <3 PM" kalau gini? Letih la tengok gelagat dia. Orang kampung semua geleng kepala. Dah la orang kampung ngeluh terasa beban GST (to quote someone dapat BR1M untuk bayar GST pun tak cukup), dah tu tengok PM duk bagi duit pada entah siapa untuk buat entah apa.

    Not surprise PM support this NGO. Mungkin Saifuddin recommend.
    "Saya mengharapkan RMK11 sebagai pelan pertama yang tidak menangani masalah ini berdasarkan kaum tetapi berdasarkan keperluan," katanya sewaktu berucap pada forum anjuran pertubuhan bukan kerajaan (NGO) baharu, Persatuan Promosi Harmoni Malaysia (Harmony Malaysia), di Petaling Jaya petang ini."
    (http://politikputramerdeka.blogspot.com/)

    Mungkin juga masih mengharapkan pihak gereja akan memberi sokongan SOLIDARITI untuk dia.

    (p/s change email. Earlier one kena hijacked)

    Reply
    • 9. Jason  |  June 5, 2015 at 1:09 am

      Saifuddin also has nothing to do with CPHM – he was just another invited guest.

      Reply
      • 10. Helen Ang  |  June 5, 2015 at 6:46 am

        Quite expected that Pudin would make the guest list.

        How come Isma was not invited? Tak berani jemput?

        Reply
  • 11. Zack  |  May 31, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    No matter what is dumb and useless PM does, it does not change anything. At this point, unless Najib is replaced, we see him as a monkey being a PM.

    Reply
  • 12. bnm  |  May 31, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    re: Jais can kick down the door of the church today and burst into homes looking for the Alkitab.

    Nothing wrong with the statement. The statement is correct as per the Selangor Enactment at the time the statement was made. JAIS is indeed empowered to seize Alkitab with the word Allah. Such power comes with the authority to conduct raids. JAIS may hold the enforcement power. But the prosecution power lies with the AG. The AG refused to charge BSM and caused embarrassment to JAIS. Eventually the bibles were returned to BSM.

    Who embarrassed the JAIS? Lee Min Choon of BSM or the AG?

    Reply
  • 13. RINA  |  May 31, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    Moderasi or Harmony I believe all these begins from home. Kita takmau yang kalut nak didik oghang lain yang sepatutnya diberi didikan?

    Perlu merisik dengan mendalam latar belakang siPolan2 ini semua. Zaman sekarang backed by Putrajaya, White House, Vatican dan sebagainya dah tak laku lagi.

    Reply
    • 14. shamshul anuar  |  May 31, 2015 at 9:08 pm

      Helen,

      najib must resign. Itu saja caranya. kita dah muak dengan dia

      Reply
      • 15. bnm  |  June 1, 2015 at 10:21 pm

        Najib sudah kata dia akan habiskan penggal dia. Nampaknya kamu kena tahan kemuakan kamu sehingga 2018.

        Reply
        • 16. shamshul anuar  |  June 1, 2015 at 11:26 pm

          BNM,

          No big deal. Then I will not vote in next election. if UMNO who’s who want to take the easy way out of pretending everything is OK, that is fine with me.

          UMNO will lose out.

          Reply
  • 17. Crankshaft  |  May 31, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    Actually, I know Lee Min Choon on a personal level and find him to be one of the moderates. He once gave a talk on the Israel-Palestine conflict and really upset people because he preached both sides of the story.

    The church was so ridiculously pro-Jewish (some members who regularly read some right-wing US website called prophesies.com – it doesn’t exist anymore – which constantly championed the Zionists) and felt that any slur against said Zionists was “going against God’s will” and “likely to invoke the wrath of God”.

    It’s why I find your Jeru-subang monicker so funny.

    Even recently, I posted something on the Israel-Palestine conflict on my blog and I was told, “I suggest you read up on the history of Israel before you blog. It only shows your ignorance.”

    Apparently past history trumps the atrocities that the Zionists commit against the Palestinians.`

    Reply
    • 18. Jason  |  June 5, 2015 at 1:11 am

      Some plain facts and truth from these comments – by someone in the know. Not just arm-chair critics with their simplistic notions about christians in Malaysia.

      Reply
      • 19. Helen Ang  |  June 5, 2015 at 6:45 am

        So Crankshaft has vouched for Lee Min Chong. I’m willing to accept the good words for him.

        But Rev. Wong Kim Kong is still slimy nonetheless.

        Reply
  • 20. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 1, 2015 at 11:48 am

    More alphabet soup from Ajib-ko or is it the consultants. With this new alphabet soup, does he expect the Christian community to hug and kiss him with open arms?

    Kak Helen, your earlier article was entitled Fear The Cross, Fear The Crescent.

    Our lovable moderates have shown the concern of the Arab-nization of the Malays, including one contemplating to leave the country. The same goes with the Christians. The Israeli-zation of the churches today.

    In the past, the traditional churches were not interested into turning people into citizens of other countries. The Methodist church was never interested in making anyone American. You cannot become British joining the Anglicans, become Italian by becoming a Catholic or becoming a German by becoming Lutheran.

    Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.

    Israel this, Israel that. So are the followers. Chinese but Jew wanna-bee.

    Next. Why must church leaders be involved in politics? Churches have always been impartial since the events of the French Revolution. Why is it the inspiration from good church members like Sarah Palin that now that ber-iya to become Father Politician?

    Where are the principles of charity, humility etc?

    Reply
    • 21. Jade Emperor  |  June 1, 2015 at 12:47 pm

      Najib has selfishly failed the Malay nation and now plays the politics of religion on both sides.

      Reply
    • 22. HH  |  June 1, 2015 at 9:35 pm

      Quote: Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.

      Just to be sure you possess the credibility to make such claims, eh, how many new churches have you attended?

      Reply
      • 23. islam1st  |  June 2, 2015 at 12:19 am

        ‘Just to be sure you possess the credibility to make such claims, eh, how many new churches have you attended?’

        Ala masa korang fitnah Melayu nak jadi Arab korang tak kalut nak bagi statistik pun? Asal sedap mulut je fitnah Muslims kat Malaysia just because depa nak lebih mengikut ajaran Islam. Skang bila dah kena batang hidup siap nak minta bukti bagai.

        Reply
        • 24. HH  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:27 am

          A simple google search would have yield plenty of results from Muslims questioning the Arabization trend. This is hardly an accusation from the non-Muslims.

          Here, we have Mulan, neither a Christian nor a Catholic, laying claim ‘Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.’ [sic]

          Any credible commentator would have the gall to standby what they wrote and ready to defend their views with facts.

          Reply
          • 25. islam1st  |  June 3, 2015 at 12:27 am

            ‘Any credible commentator would have the gall to standby what they wrote and ready to defend their views with facts.’

            Let me get this one right. This is supposed to be you, right HH?

            Reply
  • 26. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 1, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    Luar Topic… something yucky for lunch (1st mesti suka mesej video ini.)

    (Courtesy of kawan dari church)

    Reply
    • 27. Mulan  |  June 1, 2015 at 9:51 pm

      HY HH
      请!
      Silakan!

      Reply
      • 28. islam1st  |  June 2, 2015 at 12:24 am

        Jesus pun tak sentuh semua ni wor. Masa Jesus ikut tinggal dengan John the Baptist, depa banyak makan madu dan hasil hutan kut.

        Swine is so dirty, Helen pun tak publish bila saya tulis kat sini wor. That’s how dirty swine is.

        Reply
  • 29. jentayu  |  June 1, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    evangelists knows the inclination of najib towards consultation, diplomacy, win-win situation, inclusivity and harmony. so they will gleefully masquerade peace and harmony as a mean to use najib as a shield against those ‘barbaric, ruthless and backward’ malay muslims. the only peace and harmony can only be attained if everyone follows the way of evangelists. najib must choose between ‘barbaric, ruthless and backward malay muslims’ or the ‘peace loving and harmony Christian evangelists’ as an ally. smooth talking both side is not an option. the middle road is currently not the popular way now.

    Reply
    • 30. Helen Ang  |  June 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm

      Peace and harmony is bullshit coming from “them”. Setakat manis di bibir jer.

      Reply
      • 31. Jason  |  June 5, 2015 at 1:13 am

        Go to the CPHM website and read what they believe in and want to do. http://www.cphm.org.my And do your homework, don’t be lazy and u will know the difference between this movement from the rest.

        Reply
        • 32. Helen Ang  |  June 5, 2015 at 6:43 am

          From the CPHM “peace-making and being peacemakers” website, Vision and Mission:

          – The peaceful and harmonious Christians want to “promote peace and harmony in Malaysia.”.

          Cakap tak serupa bikin.

          – The peaceful and harmonious Christians want to “act as a bridge between the multi-ethnic and multi-religious communities to promote goodwill, mutual understanding, peace and harmony”

          That’s what you say but what do you do? Perkasa was publicly humiliated at your event.

          – The peaceful and harmonious Christians want to “facilitate national reconciliation and healing”.

          What bullshit! On your first public foray you cut up, hiris dan cincang maruah Melayu di depan khalayak ramai. Never mind what you people actually think or feel about Perkasa. But as hosts, surely your guests sitting at your table deserve better than the public humiliation scripted for them?

          – The peaceful and harmonious Christians want to “facilitate mechanisms for dialogue, mediation and early intervention efforts for conflict resolution within the Malaysian society”.

          That’s what you say. It sounds so nice, ya, all the Love-Love-Love words perpetually gushing out from the evangelista mouth. Never mind about mediation. Before even getting off from the starting blog, you already create a mini conflict at your own event.

          It’s not just the half dozen Perkasa guests that night who were offended. Other Malay NGOs, uninvited, who saw Perkasa being one-sidedly singled out for censure pun terkesan juga.

          – The peaceful and harmonious Christians want to “encourage and support demonstrations of Christian love and charity towards both Christians and non-Christians subjects and residents of Malaysia”.

          If the public humiliation of Perkasa in an evangelista-hosted event is a demonstration of Christian love and charity, I dread to see what Christian hate and parsimony look like.

          Reply
          • 33. Jason  |  June 10, 2015 at 11:19 pm

            Why don’t you ask Tok Him personally if he was humiliated that night?
            I can assure you that he wasn’t.
            Watch the video again and see how PM said it: http://www.cphm.org.my/v1/2015/06/04/the-star-pm-religious-extremism-must-be-confronted-and-rejected/

            Reply
            • 34. Helen Ang  |  June 11, 2015 at 12:02 am

              If you’re so sure that Ibrahim Ali did not feel humiliated, why not organize a follow-up event between CPHM and Perkasa that will provide a warm, fuzzy photo ops to satisfy the sceptics?

              The media can then quote a few feel-good kumbayah words both from Rev. Wong and IA, and the Christians for Peace and Harmony will get a feather in your cap.

              Reply
    • 35. Helen Ang  |  June 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm

      Peace and harmony is bullshit coming from “them”. Setakat manis di bibir jer.

      Reply
      • 36. Chris  |  June 2, 2015 at 12:18 am

        I hope that the evangelical churches here in Malaysia are not, under the guise of “peace and harmony”, supporting the LGBT push for political recognition. This being the case since DAP evangelists are locked in ideological solidarity with Anwar Ibrahim and his political party the PKR.
        _____________________________

        Evangelical Free Church of America Statement on Human Sexuality with a specific focus on Homosexuality and Same-Sex “Marriage”

        http://go.efca.org/resources/document/resource-homosexuality-and-same-sex-marriage

        “This Statement, drawn from Scripture as our ultimate authority, sets forth a Christian vision of human sexuality as a good gift of God. The divine design for sexual expression within “the commitment of marriage between a man and a woman” is fundamental to the well-ordering of human society and is integral to human flourishing.
        We desire to articulate this ethic as “moral truth binding on us all” while recognizing our need for God’s grace and forgiveness whenever we fall short of the divine ideal – specifically concerning homosexuality and same-sex “marriage”.”

        Reply
  • 37. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 1, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    Well our MPs did seminar on will Ajib-ko fall in Kuching.

    Reply
    • 38. Helen Ang  |  June 1, 2015 at 5:00 pm

      DAP’s black ops propaganda is scary and their psywar practically Orwellian.

      Tomorrow Najib is launching the “Peace and Harmony” Christian group. It’s freaky the words that they appropriate to use in opposite meaning – like Orwell’s 1984 “War is Peace”.

      Reply
  • 39. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 1, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Joshua Wong scolding Malaysian government.

    “坦白說,我對馬來西亞的民主運動還是一知半解,但也大概知道執政黨不斷打壓反對黨,至少民主國家慣運看到政黨輪替還是在馬來西亞難以遇見,但六四按道理又跟馬來西亞政府無關,雨傘運動表面來看也跟馬來西亞政府沒甚麼利益衝突,不管人大831決定會否被撤回,也對你們的威模管治沒絲毫直接影響(當然你說間接激發當地人堅持抗爭則另作別論),但結論就是本來在雨傘運動拋頭露面的學生,只去不到中國大陸和澳門,但今天便新增了一個地方:馬來西亞。”

    Using Google Translate
    Frankly, I am pro-democracy movement in Malaysia is still scanty, but also probably know that the ruling party continues to suppress opposition, used to transport at least democratic countries see the ruling party is still difficult to meet in Malaysia, but it stands to reason that any connection with the Tiananmen Malaysian government has nothing to do, umbrellas sports surface, but also with the Government of Malaysia is no conflict of interest, regardless of whether the decision was withdrawn 831 NPC, but also your prestige mode of governance did not directly affect the (indirect excitation of course you fight the locals insist another story), but The conclusion is that the original students in the spotlight umbrella movement, not only to the Chinese mainland and Macao, but today he has a new place: Malaysia.

    Reply
    • 40. HH  |  June 1, 2015 at 5:33 pm

      Q: What do you call an alligator that makes others fight?

      A: An Instigator.

      Where in Joshua Wong’s comment did he allegedly ‘scold’ the Malaysian government?

      Reply
      • 41. HY  |  June 1, 2015 at 7:42 pm

        most people write to communicate n to debate, nyonya is diff, she writes to inflame. mandarin is 扇风点火小女人,cantonese is 正一泼妇搞屎棍。wakaka.

        Reply
        • 42. HH  |  June 1, 2015 at 8:16 pm

          HY

          广东版形容得比较贴切.

          Translation: like the Canto version

          Reply
          • 43. jentayu  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:10 am

            the only thing Joshua is good for is a slap to his nerdy face.

            so young but what a waste of time indulging in anarchist activities.

            then come to other people’s place to teach them how to rebel. it’s like letting a brat in your house to befriend and spoil your kids.

            a sensible parent would do the right thing : you’re not welcome here. please go back home. we don’t need other country’s shit to deal with. we already have ours.

            kudos to immigration department.

            Reply
        • 44. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 10:57 am

          HH and HY
          Thank you for calling me a 小女人.
          It helps me proof one thing to our Malay friends like 1st and RINA that the young Chinese stand for the i word.
          i for Ingrate. (not i for industrious, i for intelligent, that is old fashion)
          It also proves that if more education, we become more innovative (i word) with name calling.

          ‘Had Sun been successful in his aspiration for a democratic Chinese Republic, then 50 million don’t have to perish under Mao and the Chinese migrants here would have mostly make their way home.’

          Look at how you bad mouth your ancestors!
          i for ——-.
          No Charlie Soong. No Sun, No KMT, No MCA, No Perikatan, No BN…. No HH and HY in Malaysia.
          You said “mostly make their way home” meaning the Chinese here are just seeking temporary shelter in Malaya. Shame on you! You are really stressing the word PENDATANG and not the word PENDUDUK.

          If not for Sun, HH would be in China collecting the 屎 of his pigs and thinking what forms of plastic to feed and fatten his pigs.
          HY’s daugther who is now busy with SPM would be busy getting pregnant (must be a son). If not her old man husband would find another honey. She is really a 小女人 with小脚.

          God put both of you in Malaysia for a reason. God did not put you in the PRC for a reason. What kind of religion do both of you have that encourages ungratefulness? I bet HY with get H1N1 if he can say thank you Malaysia. HH please advice your Aussie friends not to behave like you do, if not the Aussies would also suggesting to eject them too in 30 years if they still have the PENDATANG and not the PENDUDUK attitude.

          わ かか
          “most people write to communicate n to debate”. Yes, HY. we must not argue with you as you are UN-debate-able.

          Anyway what business Joshua Wong and Leung Kwok-hung have in Malaysia and doing a road show. Is it to promote the latest TVB serial? Will you get SPM tips when you Sarapan Bersama Joshua Wong?
          If Joshua Wong’s Sarapan is sarapan berguna and White hair is here to promote some new movie, then you have a right to scold the government. You can call the “s” word for the blogger who first broke the news.

          Malaysia is sovereign nation. We have a right to refuse any foreigner to visit our country if there is a cause for uneasiness. We also have the right to refuse a person who is not a friend of our friend PRC.

          Let us turn the tables. What would you say if some Malaysian book publisher invited the family of Osama bin Laden for a road show ? Would HH great the person with flowers at KLIA and ask for an autograph and selfie?

          Perhaps HY could enjoy dinner with a family member of Hitoshi Imamura.

          Think about it.

          Reply
          • 45. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 1:33 pm

            Mulan,

            HH commented @ 2015/06/02 at 9:27 am,

            “Here, we have Mulan, neither a Christian nor a Catholic, laying claim ‘Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.’ [sic]”

            (1) What do you think about being told by HH that you’re “neither a Christian nor a Catholic”?

            (2) Your claim that “Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.”

            Are you talking about Malaysian/Penang churches? Which denomination(s)? Or are you talking about interpretation of the Bible, or Christian Zionism, or some political trend?

            Your response might be something worth for me to blog about. Thanks.

            Reply
            • 46. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 3:46 pm

              (1) I am what I am. I don’t need a label to define myself or my beliefs. These people really need the label to belong somewhere.
              HY says he is Chinese. Hua Yong. I think it stands for Hua Yahudi.i think behind all that I love Chinese attitudes lies a secret need to become a more high class being – away from the off the boat history. Thus a love for being Yahudi. HH – would stand for high horse. Yes, the kind that tells people what to do – like so many of the evangelistas.
              Somehow they love to tell UMNO, PAS, ISMA what to do. To them being a Christian or Catholic is to go to church and take attendance. To them being a Christian is the right to look down on people including their parents and siblings -telling them if they are not saved they would go to hell. That kind of high horse behaviour.
              Let us look at the old churches of yesteryears. Do you see the Catholic nun telling her students in the Convent that if they do not become Catholic, the students would go to hell? No. Charity in respective of race or religion. Today our clergy tells us to Ubah this Ubah that. That is why I murtad. In this kind of weather, you cannot practice Christianity. I went to a church in Melaka and the preacher talked about being bullied out of the Allah word – in front of PRC tourists. There is no more Christianity only politics.
              2) “Today’s new churches are simply interested to becoming Jewish.”.
              I am talking about the RM1 new churches which I cannot classify the denomination. Those that spring out on the 1st floor of a shophouse. Churches run by people with no church training. You can see many in Penang and yes J-Kepong. I have been to some of the sermons and all they love talking is about Israel, Israel, Israel, Promised Land and Egypt. They sing Allah songs in an English language service. They love stressing on the tithes word too.
              Go to a traditional Anglican church. It is in a proper building. The priests have proper training. They have proper service proceedings. And no Allah word. They sing hymns that the folks at Downton Abbey would be proud off.
              The Anglican and traditional churches have the most East Malaysians and yet of the many services I have attended, not once the sermon was about the “Allah” word. Not even one sermon was about Israel, or going on holiday to Israel etc.
              Let me share my meeting with one Christian leader in Sarawak. He tells me he is sick of the Semenanjung people. The Sarawakians have never had an issue with the Allah word but now the word becomes such hot topic there. He tells me that he does not welcome the Semenanjung politicians in Sarawak. They have come to make life uneasy in Sarawak.
              To say that Christians are very active in evangelism is not true. The attendees of traditional churches have sharply dropped. Who wants to be a Tamil Methodist? In fact the Anglican church in inner KL have either their attendees who are Bumiputera, expats, foreign workers or old people. No Chinese teens – except being forced by their grandparents. In fact we should give their church leaders a course or too on headcount retention or headcount increase.

              Postscript: On your ISMA posting.
              Let me advice ISMA and Buddhist leaders to learn from the Evangelistas. Turn Islam or Buddhism into something cool. I am sure with new Muslimin like Raisya Rania, Islam seems to be cooler. You have Muslim converts like Yusof Islam (formerly Catholic Cat Stevens). Use them to bring in the cool factor of Islam.
              Here are 33 celebrity Muslims. Mrs Clooney is a Muslim. So is the kid who was in One Direction.
              http://stars.topix.com/slideshow/15162
              There are many Buddhist Hollywood converts. Use them to show the coolness of Buddhism. Here is the list.
              http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_Celebrity_Buddhists
              JLo, Richard Gere, Brad Pitt’s ex and present…
              For a change Buddhist and Muslim pendakwah should think like the evangelistas.

              Reply
              • 47. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 3:54 pm

                re: “For a change Buddhist and Muslim pendakwah should think like the evangelistas.”

                Oh nooooooo! Please don’t.

                Too slimy … ergh shudder, shudder.

                Reply
                • 48. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 4:08 pm

                  I am giving the Buddhist pendakwah in Malaysia some cool examples.

                  JLo’s story on becoming a Buddhist
                  http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/Jennifer+Lopez-932.html
                  ” “Now I know there’s a force in the world. There’s an energy that if you put out love it comes back to you. That’s a basic thing that works for me.”

                  Steve Job’s and Buddhism
                  http://www.businessinsider.my/steve-jobs-zen-meditation-buddhism-2015-1/#OLPPq6TlEMAhYuPa.97

                  Sarah Jessica Parker – and Buddhism
                  http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=9,7000,0,0,1,0#.VW1jqVKpVH4
                  “‘Buddhism fills a void left by her traditional Jewish faith,’ confides a close friend of Parker’s. ‘It’s a way for her to understand and diminish personal suffering, let go of fears, and to get pieces of mind. She still appreciates the strong community and traditions of Judaism, but wants to discover the wisdom of another religion without abandoning her born faith. She enjoys getting mail.’

                  Don’t shudder. Evolve!

                  Reply
                  • 49. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 4:50 pm

                    Re: “Don’t shudder. Evolve!”

                    While trying to compose this reply to you, I found myself involuntarily shuddering again.

                    You’re correct to say – and I’m also aware – that the evenglistas have cornered the market on the youths and urbanites, but still, their methods give me the heebie jeebies (like a spider crawling up my neck).

                    Take the City Harvest Church in Singapore. I’ve mentioned before that its tacky design and neon lights is reminiscent of a Genting casino. The church’s hip cafeteria looks like a coffee bar and just a place for the poseurs to hang out.

                    Then there’s all that singing and dancing and the pastor’s pop star wife. Below is a tweet by KL Chan who was the editor of Selangor Times. (I’d like to reiterate that the English-language media in Malaysia is under evangelista control.)

                    null

                    KL Chan tweeted that the Dream Center (DUMC) has “an awesome … sound system”. Yeah, like the City Harvest mega service which is like a concert with bleechers, strobe lights, band, that “awesome sound system” and the rest of the razzmatazz extravaganza.

                    The Hannah Yeohs and the rest of her Ah Bengs and Ah Lians’ idea of spirituality is the Gospel of Prosperity. I really hope that Buddhism does not go down their path. Excuse me while I shudder again.

                    Reply
                    • 50. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:40 pm

                      If Buddhism were a tacky and shallow way of life like City Harvest, would high worth individuals like Steve Jobs, Angelina Jolie, Richard Gere become Buddhists? Yes. Angelina Jolie, actress, mother and humanitarian! Steve Jobs IT superhero! Richard Gere maybe the American Gigolo and Runaway Groom but a serious Buddhist activist.
                      Why did George Clooney marry a Muslim (after all the many girlfriends throughout the years)? Why did Clausius Clay become Ali?

                      Because Buddhism and Islam are serious! Don’t shudder. Buddhism and Islam need serious PR – but not the tacky flavour of City Harvest. Because they are sustainable, because they cover life.

                      Life is not always a party. Miley ex Hannah said so in her song.

                    • 51. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:58 pm

                      So what is it about the evangelista methods that you were suggesting Buddhism and Islam should follow?

                    • 52. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 10:27 pm

                      More PR.
                      Show the good Buddhists and Muslims have done. What have the Buddhists done for the Nepalese. What Angelina Jolie did in Africa? What is the Zen that made Steve Jobs zing? Mrs. Clooney the lawyer wife and Muslim… these positive stories. Use the Internet, tweet.
                      Malaysian Buddhist currently only speak to local Chinese audience. Speak to the world.
                      But most important avoid confrontation with the evangelists. This is what I want ISMA to stop. The evangelists want a profound answer from ISMA and is waiting anxiously for it. Then it is tweeter orgy for them.
                      Learn the Christian way. Slap on cheek. You turn the other.
                      Let the evangelistas bark. Remember “small people” are not worth entertaining. ISMA please turn away.

                    • 53. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 10:56 pm

                      Mulan,

                      No offence to you but if the Buddhists apply the same kind of cloying public relations (“love x3”, now it’s “peace and harmony” and the rest of the evangelista’s stock-in-trade), I’ll puke.

                      I’m thankful Buddhists don’t behave like the evangelistas’ with their schtick diarrhea.

                      As for Isma, they’re a lot smarter than you realise. Thus far, none of the Muslim groups have been able to stand up to the evangelistas’ onslaught but I believe that in Isma, the Christians have met their match.

                      There’s no need for Isma to stop. After all, Isma won the ‘Johor (for Jesus)’ face-off.

                    • 54. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 11:39 pm

                      PR in the positive manner. Not like the evangenslista that tweets every damn minute of the day. Intelligent and positive PR, for people who really have class.
                      Not the tacky and name calling publicity. Steve Jobs, Angelina Jolie, Sarah Jessica Parker are for the classy crowd. Not the Honey BooBoo reality TV crowd, who tweets about fasting and drinking water.
                      I want to know which Buddhist/Muslim body or person is involved in relief efforts, poverty reduction, life saving etc. Don’t cheapfly by tweeting love, love you, kiss, kiss like the love hungry teenager. That is tacky and so evangelista. And so geli.

                    • 55. Kung  |  June 11, 2015 at 1:27 am

                      “On life’s journey
                      Faith is nourishment,
                      Virtuous deeds are a shelter,
                      Wisdom is the light by day and
                      Right mindfulness is the protection by night.
                      If a man lives a pure life nothing can destroy him;
                      If he has conquered greed nothing can limit his freedom.”

                      “Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
                      even though they have been held in honor
                      for many generations and in diverse places.
                      Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
                      Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
                      Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
                      persuading yourself that a god inspires you.
                      Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
                      After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
                      and found to be true and reasonable,
                      then conform your conduct thereto.”

                      “Fill your mind with compassion.”

                      ( Gautama Buddha )

              • 56. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 4:56 pm

                Mulan,

                On a separate note, I hope that you won’t think I’m interfering for saying this BUT

                … if you were born in the Anglican faith, you really shouldn’t allow these born again, carpetbagger, guttersnipes to get under your skin and turn you away from your Christianity. This means you’re letting them win.

                These Jesusubang Johnny-Come-Lately’s may be contaminating the teachings and practice but nonetheless, the religion is resilient and has survived 2,000 years.

                And you’re not alone. I know of older (age-wise), mainline Christians who are similarly turned-off by how these oppo people are politicizing the Church.

                Reply
                • 57. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 8:54 pm

                  This crazy woman is not concerned what they evangelistas say about her. She maybe as crazy as Joan of Arc. Going to church with full attendance does not mean you are a good Christian. The bible never said attendance will open heavens doors. I am murtad in the evangelista’s terms but certainly my faith is stronger than some weak human (and novice’s) eyes.

                  In her crazy ways, actually she is saving the Chinese and the Christians.
                  Remember the many high net worth names that I gave that have converted to Buddhism. Steve Jobs, Brad Pitt and his wives. Something must be wrong with Christianity in the US that all these high net worth people leave Christianity. I am impressed with Sarah Jessica Parker. Buddhist but also Jew. Religion – Buddhist, Race – Jew. But not certain Christians in Malaysia. Then want to be Bangsa Malaysia, dump their Indian DNA and later becomes Chinese and harps about being a chose Jew.

                  What is the impression that the non Chinese are having of Christianity in Malaysia? Allah, Allah, Allah news all year. Where is the charity in Christianity? I want to here how Christians save the orphanage, give free education, feed the poor etc. But alas – Allah is the only news. Google Christianity and Malaysia and you will get Allah, Allah, Allah.

                  The Christians in Sabah and Sarawak have been using Allah for a long time says the baldy but the people of Peninsular Malaysia are the ones sitting on hot bricks over the word. The Christians in Sabah and Sawarak – life goes on with or without Allah.

                  Don’t worry about the old Christians. They will stay Christian for a very long time. One encounter with a novice Christian will not make them lose their faith. The church that James Brooke build will stand the test of time.

                  However how long will the disco mega churches last? How long will City Harvest be in existence after Sun Ho does her last ho? One commenter said Islam is a serious religion. Very true. So is old Christianity – because it covers not only worship but life itself – e.g. education, poverty reduction, social services, disability services. The new churches are all about the party, dance and everything middle class. It is about collecting tithes and building a bigger and bigger church. Every week is about the building fund. Not much depth.

                  But don’t worry, the Anglican church wasn’t built on a goody goody foundation. We had our naughty founder and his wives – but we survived the centuries. We survived Diana, we survived Prince Andrew. Because we became serious and covered life. We opened schools, hospitals etc for all. And we do not ask for tithes, building fund or full attendance.

                  My next topic. The Chinese. Apa Cina mau lagi?
                  Remember it was UMNO who was racist, then Perkasa, then ISMA, now PAS. Who else is not racist in the eyes of the UBAHan? Practically the whole Malay race is considered racist. By now there is no Malay political party that has passed the UBAHan quality control.
                  In the years before the UBAHans came to power, we had muhibbah. Malay, Chinese, Indians do have their disagreements but they do not air their grievances like today. No who is stupid, racist mud slinging.

                  I am going to defend Tun M and his daughter now and the Razak brothers. A good 1st family can stand having different views. There is no yes man is such families, if not how can they lead. I will go back to the Soong family, yes the Christian first family of China who up to today can’t purge their history. Charlie had three daughters. One had a love affair with his BFF and married him. She was Rosemund Soong (or Madam Sun). Another daughter married a married general. She was May Soong (or Madam Chiang). Madam Sun became a widow and became a communist and left her Christian faith. May Soong stood against her sister’s belief and was one of the founding members of rival Taiwan. By the way the eldest married a really rich guy who was a descendent of Confucius – who later became Finance Minister. Nepotism bukan?

                  Really messy soap opera family? But remember these people are 1st family material. All other families are only family material, not 1st family material. Tun may have a different view from Marina. Najib and Nazir are different. Sex between Pres. Clinton and Ms Monica does not mean Mrs Clinton divorces him and does not want to be president. She does not sit and be contented being a housewife cum divorcee. Instead she keeps her husband, and becomes Secretary of State and President hopeful. That is what 1st families are like. Above US in thinking and maturity.

                  Reply
                  • 58. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 8:59 pm

                    You would also realise quite a number of African American celebs from the list I gave become Muslim. Something to think about it.

                    Why do they become Muslims or Buddhist? Those high net worth guys.

                    Reply
                  • 59. Helen Ang  |  June 2, 2015 at 10:46 pm

                    Mulan,

                    Your religious belief is your own concern but …

                    … if you’re now saying you that you still have faith, then you shouldn’t have allowed HH to get away with making the claim – “Here, we have Mulan, neither a Christian nor a Catholic”.

                    I’ll draw an analogy. Let’s say a Muslim drinks. And his neighbour says, oh Pak Mat drinks, he’s not a Muslim or he doesn’t qualify to be one.

                    But our drinking Uncle – even though he’s breaking one of Islam’s prohibitions – nonetheless it does not make him ketandusan iman. For the Muslim, ultimately judgment on his faith (pass or fail) would come from Allah (as I understand the theology of Islam).

                    Personally, I find HH’s comment offensive.

                    In the larger picture, the general attitude of the evangelista is to me also offensive. Most times, they do not have any realization of how offensive they really are, and if their offence is pointed out to them, they still won’t be able to get it but will continue with their smart aleckiness.

                    It’s offensive for someone who has belief to be called “not a Muslim” or in your case, “not a Christian”.

                    You written long replies but I don’t feel that you’ve addressed the crux of the issue. I’m conscious of how much the evangelistas grate on Muslim nerves, (on mine certainly) and on other people’s as well.

                    In this specific matter of you being accused of have no faith, it (“it” referring to HH causing offence) can be pinned down – which was the purpose of my earlier question bracketed (1) to prompt you.

                    But since you’ve, in any case, admitted yourself to be “murtad” albeit now saying that church attendance does not reflect your level of spirituality, then I guess this is not an argument that can be won against HH.

                    It reflects a larger trend where the Muslims (or others such as yourself) lose the bout to the evangelista. And the Muslims keep losing and losing. The evangelistas keep winning and winning. This thread provides an illustration of how this thing happens.

                    Reply
                    • 60. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 11:18 pm

                      Matthew 7:1-6New International Version (NIV)

                      Judging Others
                      7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

                      Matthew 6:6 ►

                      New International Version
                      But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

                      Matthew 6:6 did not say pray with full attendance in church. I don’t care about HH. He just wants some of God’s job description – i.e. playing judge. (Matthew 7:1-6). HH is not God or Allah. Sorry just another mortal xiao ren.

                    • 61. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 11:27 pm

                      HH said
                      “Regulate Christianity? How to regulate matters of the heart?”

                      Asking me whether I am Christian, Catholic, Martian or witch is regulating matters of the heart.

                      Reading my ranting are as tempting as 50 Shades of Grey. You would also notice HH/HY’s Chinese rantings are sexist (small woman, woman hot temper). Common of men with small ….., common with men who we don’t want to serve,

                    • 62. HH  |  June 3, 2015 at 11:27 am

                      Quote: In this specific matter of you being accused of have no faith….

                      This is not what I said. I said ‘is neither a Christian nor Catholic’…

                      Since you are keen on analogy;

                      A is a Buddhist. A is neither a Christian nor Catholic.
                      B is a Muslim. B is neither a Christian nor Catholic.
                      Mulan has mentioned she has given up on her faith. M is neither Christian nor Catholic.

                      Neither Christian nor Catholic is a matter of fact. No one is commenting on their spiritual level.

                    • 63. Helen Ang  |  June 3, 2015 at 11:30 am

                      Don’t putar-belit lah.

                      Let’s just get the answer from the horse’s mouth.

                      Mulan,

                      Are you (still) a Christian?

                    • 64. HH  |  June 3, 2015 at 11:49 am

                      No acknowledgement you erred?

                      From. my previous analogy,

                      A is a Buddhist. A is neither a Christian nor Catholic.
                      B is a Muslim. B is neither a Christian nor Catholic.

                      So, according to your interpretation, am I accusing the Buddhist and Muslim of no faith?

                      Lol

                      Drawing from your Pak Mat analogy, it is good to know you have now objectively accepted Hannah and the evangelistas as possible devout Christians. Lol

                    • 65. Helen Ang  |  June 3, 2015 at 11:58 am

                      You just won’t stop with your sneakiness, will you? lulz

                      What’s so difficult to ascertain? You said Mulan is “neither a Christian nor Catholic”.

                      Mulan has told us previously that she goes to the Anglican church, so we can strike out Catholic. (Noted that you’ve divorce the Catholics as separate from the Christians.)

                      Now it’s just a simple matter. You sentence is ~ Mulan is not a Christian.

                      We’ll wait for Mulan to give an answer as to whether she is a Christian or not.

                      C-H-E-E-R-S

                    • 66. mulanmalaysia  |  June 3, 2015 at 1:28 pm

                      The horse says yes.

                      But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

                      As someone said matters of the heart can’t be regulated. The father and my affairs are none of HH/HY or anyones business.

                      HH/HY is not the father. Church are merely humans. I answer to Him not HH/HY. I can murtad in the absent from church sense but that does not mean there is no more affairs of the heart. I don’t like to attend people who pray aloud for handphones, cars and new government. So label me murtad… do I care a flick?

                      If many can pay RM2 and open up a church, I can pay nothing at my own church.My personal church don’t charge fees. No building fund/

                      Kak Helen here is a bible verse about the Devil
                      1 Peter 5:8 ESV / 174 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

                      Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

                      You might not know, under the skin of a very virtuous Christian is D himself. You entertain it, you know. Let it putar belt. Memang kerja setan.

                      2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV / 120 helpful votes

                      And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

                    • 67. Helen Ang  |  June 3, 2015 at 1:37 pm

                      Thanks for the reply Mulan.

                      I’m sorry if the question came across as too direct or insensitive.

                      HH’s act of takfir (mengkafirkan orang) is too much.

                    • 68. Mulan of Malaysia  |  June 3, 2015 at 2:05 pm

                      No worries. If HH wants to become judge and jury and Lord, then I will buy “seow bak” and pray to him. (Kak Helen, you know this connotation in Chinese culture right)

                    • 69. HH  |  June 3, 2015 at 2:20 pm

                      Mulan

                      If you say you are still a Christian, then I’ll take back my comment calling you ‘neither Christian nor Catholic’.

                      My sincere apologies to you if it causes you great distress.

                      Cheers

          • 70. HH  |  June 2, 2015 at 6:05 pm

            Mulan

            Quote: It helps me proof one thing to our Malay friends like 1st and RINA that the young Chinese stand for the i word.

            If this is not the most pathetic case of bootlicking I don’t know what is. Malay friends and Chinese foes, story of your life, eh?

            Quote: Shame on you! You are really stressing the word PENDATANG and not the word PENDUDUK.

            I am talking about the sentiments of early Chinese migrants circa 1930. But of course I don’t see you piqued when your Malay friends spit the P word intermittently. Tell you what, shame those who spit the P word and pooh-poohed the sanctity of our Nationality law, berani?

            Quote: God put both of you in Malaysia for a reason. God did not put you in the PRC for a reason. What kind of religion do both of you have that encourages ungratefulness?

            Ungrateful? Your argument is all over the place. I don’t see anyone complaining being put in Malaysia apart from ‘certain extreme’ faction of the population.

            Quote: Malaysia is sovereign nation. We have a right to refuse any foreigner to visit our country if there is a cause for uneasiness. We also have the right to refuse a person who is not a friend of our friend PRC.

            Is HY and I protesting on behalf of Joshua Wong? Who cares for JW? It is you who kept posting commentaries and pix of him so you can find gratification in dispensing disparaging remarks.

            Reply
            • 71. HY  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:30 pm

              hehe our nyonya sound very bitter n angry, u r right the canto version is more apt…..泼妇骂街。btw, she havent answer yr question where jw scold msia after writing so many words?

              Reply
            • 72. mulanmalaysia  |  June 2, 2015 at 9:42 pm

              “Who cares for JW? It is you who kept posting commentaries and pix of him so you can find gratification in dispensing disparaging remarks”

              You actually care what the small woman who dispenses poop writes. If this small woman is like the crazy model who goes nudie in Petaling Street, then you would ignore her rantings.

              Reply
              • 73. islam1st  |  June 3, 2015 at 12:20 am

                ‘Shame on you! You are really stressing the word PENDATANG and not the word PENDUDUK.’

                Tu la obvious sangat kan.

                ‘But of course I don’t see you piqued when your Malay friends spit the P word intermittently.’

                Pendatang is the ‘N word’ now, HH? Tu la masalah kalau tak faham bahasa motherland kan susah. Orang bukan label korang pendatang haram, illegals. Bila orang kata kau behaves macam pendatang, orang maksudkan kau behaves macam orang asing (bukan tempatan=locals). Kesian dulu sekolah tak mahu belajar bahasa motherland sampai fasih, sekarang kan dah mudah salah-faham!

                Orang cakap pasal konsep ketuanan, kau orang cakap orang nak jadikan korang hamba, second, third and fourth class. Sedih!

                Reply
  • 75. islam1st  |  June 3, 2015 at 12:24 am

    ‘More PR.’

    Sorry to dissapoint, Mulan. Muslims can’t never be cool. We could never be cool about same sex marriage. We could never be cool for the so called transgenders either!

    Jenner who?

    Reply

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