Christians not turning the other cheek nor loving their enemy

December 17, 2015 at 10:30 am 64 comments

How did a seminar warning about Christian missionaries come to be construed as “anti Christian” or “Christian bashing”?

These evangelistas are just so good at playing the poor li’l me victim card. They’re really milking the Christian persecution complex – as illustrated below – and coupled with the usual posturing of self-righteous moral outrage.

BELOW: Drama queen @hannahyeoh whinging about the Lambs of God being scapegoated

Hannah scapegoat

Council of Churches playing the Christian martyr

In a press statement yesterday, the Council of Churches Malaysia complained about the seminar “against Christianization” held in UiTM last Saturday.

The CCM complained that the UiTM seminar was “geared towards pitting one religion against another” as well as “create suspicion among the religious groups”.

They complained how “such activities continue with official sanction and support”.

They complained about “the numerous ways in which the Christian community in the country is being maligned and treated with disrespect”.

They complained that the seminar created “unfounded prejudice” against Christians and that such a  caution ran “counter to religious harmony” as well as possibly “unwittingly promote a climate of radicalization of young Muslims”.

Why doesn’t the Church ponder on why UiTM did not host any programme warning that Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Sikhs are trying to convert Malays to their respective religions?

BELOW: @hannahyeoh whinging some more about “anti-Kristian”; Is Madame Speaker trying to incite the native Christians in Sabah and Sarawak?

Hannah Sabah Swak Christianization

Where’s the love, eh?

3G (Gold, Glory & Gospel) crusaders behave like they want war. (Be careful what you wish for.)

The last time that UiTM held a seminar warning how the evangelistas are attempting to convert Malays, the Christians retaliated with a stack of police reports against the event organizers and speakers.

Contrary to the self-characterization of themselves as a merciful, meek and mild people, the Christians do not shy from going on the offensive against Muslims.

BELOW: Hannah the Hate Monger

They’re creating such an uproar and ruckus now – a week before Christmas in a season of purported Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Men.

Doesn’t their much vaunted teaching instruct Christians to turn the other cheek? Come on, practise what you preach. Love your enemy.

Haters will hate potatoes

Recommended read:

Just like Muslims have condemned ISIS, M’sian Christians must repudiate evangelistas

Entry filed under: Evangeliblis. Tags: , .

What does The J-Star mean by UiTM’s “anti-Christian” seminar? Caption this priceless photo taken @ multaqa serantau

64 Comments Add your own

  • 1. islam1st  |  December 17, 2015 at 10:58 am

    ‘Why doesn’t the Church ponder on why UiTM did not host any programme warning that Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Sikhs are trying to convert Malays to their respective religions?’

    THIS IS WHY!

    Reply
    • 2. Kineas1067  |  December 17, 2015 at 12:10 pm

      Just to be clear – are you saying that’s it’s ok for Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Sikhs (and let’s not forget Christians in this mix) to convert to Islam?

      Maybe you don’t believe in the “silo” approach where each religion exists in it’s own “silo” with impermeable walls?

      Or that all religions deserve to be treated with respect?

      There have been conversions from Christianity to Islam and from Islam to Christianity in the West. People don’t seem to be too exercised by this (the countries being secular, possibly).

      Unless you are saying that they have got it all wrong?

      And if the West look askance at where this flexibility is not available, they are “interfering” in “domestic affairs”?

      That’s a slippery slope for those who take their religion seriously.

      And that applies to Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

      Reply
      • 3. islam1st  |  December 17, 2015 at 6:54 pm

        Perhaps pendatang like you tak faham Undang-Undang Malaysia? Perlembagaan Persekutuan ada baca ke tak? Bila nak belajar bahasa kebangsaan?

        “I don’t have to tell you how sensitive and potentially explosive this issue is.

        “The law is clear on this matter and we must abide by it,” Khalid told the news portal.

        – See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/top-cop-confirms-reports-lodged-over-attempts-to-convert-muslims#sthash.DiRFcYmJ.dpuf

        Reply
        • 4. The Kineas  |  December 17, 2015 at 9:18 pm

          I see you cleverly ducked answering the other Kineas’s questions by hiding behind a legal justification.

          By resorting to cheap innuendos in Bahasa no less.

          But I get it. It’s about fear and more fear. And playing up the “fear agenda” to the skies so that the world can see Malaysia as an icon set apart.

          Those who harbour that amount of fear are to be pitied, because when the rationale is removed, they will be found wanting.

          Reply
          • 5. Rushdi  |  December 18, 2015 at 10:14 am

            Seriously, your comment is meaningless, and just an artful construct of utter bullshit.With some bombastic words thrown in. Please, be factual.

            Reply
            • 6. Kineas1067  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:46 am

              Sure, but what facts, pray tell?

              That “freedom of religion” is an artificial construct that is subject to constraints?

              That God chooses those He wishes to favour while the others are beyond the pale?

              As for using “bombastic words” – I make no apologies. The words best express the message.

              Maybe you should brush up on your vocabulary?

              Just saying…

              Reply
              • 7. Noon  |  December 21, 2015 at 1:45 pm

                Well, if you don’t like the Malaysian constitution….

                Reply
    • 8. Surrhead  |  December 17, 2015 at 3:56 pm

      With proof like this, you can rattle the church, do you know that?? So, what have you been doing?? sitting on it??

      Reply
  • 9. islam1st  |  December 17, 2015 at 11:02 am

    ‘Doesn’t their much vaunted teaching instruct Christians to turn the other cheek?’

    Helen, ony the Paling Tidak Apa bunch yang practice mantra tu. The DELUSIONALS, mana ada ‘Love, Love, Love’. Ada meh?

    Reply
    • 10. Kineas1067  |  December 17, 2015 at 4:47 pm

      Of course, ISIS/ISIL/Daesh and their fellow travellers don’t believe in turning the other cheek, do they? Or in love, peace and goodwill to one and all?

      Are they being “delusional” or being steadfast in pursuing their vision of a Higher Good?

      Which school of thought do you subscribe to?

      Reply
      • 11. Rushdi  |  December 18, 2015 at 10:17 am

        Well, we are not ISIS,but the evangalista are stepping on our toe. We will not turn the other cheek,neither do we ever said we will.

        Reply
        • 12. Kineas1067  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:52 am

          So glad to hear that you (and others) “are not ISIS”. We should all be thankful for these small mercies, right?

          But what “toe” is being stepped on? And how? And who is the “victim”?

          Simple questions for the “haves” and “have-nots”, perhaps?

          Reply
          • 13. Noon  |  December 21, 2015 at 1:51 pm

            Proselytization among Muslims and the kalimah Allah usage among the main issues. Buat-buat tak faham.

            Reply
            • 14. islam1st  |  December 21, 2015 at 9:51 pm

              Dumbing Down orang kata!

              Reply
  • 15. C72  |  December 17, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Heh heh what if the Govt were to fund a program for all the Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh etc organisations to reach out to the new Christians to “bring them back” ? That would be a sight to behold, I’m sure.

    Re-education katanya . ..

    Reply
    • 16. Kineas1067  |  December 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm

      That would be hilarious, would it not? As if the national education system doesn’t have enough problems of it’s own, without being tasked with this added “outreach” responsibility.

      But the bureaucrats should be able to dream up something using public funds…..lol.

      It would be an interesting exercise, though. And, should it come to pass, it should be included in Malaysia’s scorecard for the next UN Human Rights Review.

      Small potatoes, right?

      Reply
      • 17. Rushdi  |  December 18, 2015 at 10:19 am

        so, let Christians preach —> good UN human right score
        let Buddhist preach —-> bad UN human right score
        let Muslim preach —-> Violation of human right

        am i right?

        Reply
        • 18. Kineas1067  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:54 am

          Why not put it to the test?

          It should be a simple enough exercise, yes?

          Reply
      • 19. islam1st  |  December 19, 2015 at 4:13 pm

        ‘As if the national education system doesn’t have enough problems of it’s own, without being tasked with this added “outreach” responsibility.’

        She is not talking about you, is she, Kineas1067?

        ‘We are often too quick to speak or comment about the education system, but we refuse to step in and help when asked. Our narrow worldview makes it easy for us to point out the shortcomings and suggest ways to do it better instead of actually going out there and doing it? – See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/opinion/cheryl-ann-fernando/article/more-walk-less-talk#sthash.vecoiePq.dpuf

        Reply
    • 20. Spectre  |  December 17, 2015 at 12:48 pm

      l o l ! Then of course they will accuse the government of faith cleansing. They will shout ‘faith cleansing !’

      While I subscribe to the notion that faith is a personal matter and people have a right to choose what they want to believe or not to believe, I have a problem with what is commonly referred to as aggressive proselytizing by evangelical Christians. If people are not interested then stop it but as you would already know these people never give one hoots what other people may think and feel with their proselytizing. Then Muslim radicals come after them and they play victims.

      Reply
      • 21. Kineas1067  |  December 17, 2015 at 3:59 pm

        Are Christians the only ones who are proselytising?

        Be careful how you answer that!

        Reply
        • 22. Spectre  |  December 17, 2015 at 8:04 pm

          Where in my comment did I say only Christians are proselytizing ? I have said it very clearly that I m against aggressive proselytizing. There you go. you omitted the word ‘aggressive’ then made it look as if I m talking about Christian proselytizing. Typically slick move. Putar belit at it’s very best. I await your next spin.

          Reply
          • 23. Where's The Justice  |  December 18, 2015 at 3:16 am

            “While I subscribe to the notion that faith is a personal matter and people have a right to choose what they want to believe or not to believe”

            You must detest how Islam is practiced in Malaysia then? At least they haven’t yet reached the point of issuing the death penalty for apostasy.

            Instead of being fearful of a minority group that really has no power over them, perhaps Muslims should start claiming back their freedoms and liberties that have been taken away from them by their religious and other governing bodies. That’s what I would be doing if someone was dictating to me on what I should or should not believe in. UiTM should consider this topic for their next forum.

            The real proselytizing is happening from within their religion and not from the outside, but they are too blind or naive to see it.

            Reply
            • 24. Rushdi  |  December 18, 2015 at 10:28 am

              I am a Quraniyoon Muslim, a strict non-denominational form of Islam. Some of the local muslim even consider that as deviant. But as a muslim I have no problem having an Imam proselytizing at me. When i see a church father tried to proselytize at me, that the real problem.

              Reply
              • 25. Kineas1067  |  December 18, 2015 at 12:11 pm

                I see. Is it acceptable, then, for an Imam to try and proselytise non-Muslims? And that is not a “real problem”?

                Ok, real world situation. I know a Catholic family in Singapore. The husband converted to Islam. His wife, children, grandchildren and other family members continue to be practising Catholics and observant in their faith. The husband and wife live together, their children are grown and live on their own. The families celebrate Easter and Christmas, also Hari Raya.

                This is both permissible and acceptable, isn’t it?

                Reply
                • 26. islam1st  |  December 18, 2015 at 8:46 pm

                  Keep YOUR SINGAPORE story to yourselves!!!

                  Reply
                  • 27. Kineas1067  |  December 19, 2015 at 10:59 am

                    Why? Are you afraid of real world facts?

                    Who is being “delusional” here?

                    Reply
                    • 28. islam1st  |  December 21, 2015 at 12:59 pm

                      We don’t fooking care about YOUR SINGAPORE lar. Why you butthurt is it? LKY sudah mati laa, stop butthurt oredi!

                    • 29. Noon  |  December 21, 2015 at 2:11 pm

                      Yeah, we visit Helen’s blog to read about World issues.

                    • 30. Chris  |  December 21, 2015 at 8:56 pm

                      It’s usually not as rosy as your particular Singaporean family case-in-point, Kineas. There are way too many complex family issues involved when papa and mama worship within and without two different faith communities – the children wind up more confused than integrated and at worst their values are compromised. Unless perhaps, if they are merely nominal followers of their respective religions – then why embrace Islam?

              • 31. Where's The Justice  |  December 18, 2015 at 1:24 pm

                ” But as a muslim I have no problem having an Imam proselytizing at me”

                Yeah, I don’t disagree with that on matters of faith. My issue is when a Muslim is not given the choice to pursue another creed if they decide that Islam is no longer for them.

                Take Lina Joy for example, you may question how she came to know Christianity, and I guess we will never know. But to deny her the right to choose is criminal and is a case of the religious bodies and the courts taking it ten steps too far. Religion becomes dangerous when fallible men start dictating to others about how to live.

                “When i see a church father tried to proselytize at me, that the real problem.”

                I concur with you in that I don’t agree with preaching to others either. If someone asks me about my faith, then that’s a different story. But I can honestly say that during my 37 years on this planet, I have never encountered an Evangelical or a traditional Christian come up to me and proselytize to me. Have you?

                Reply
          • 32. Kineas1067  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:57 am

            Ah, so – are you admitting that ALL religions do “aggressive proselytising” as part of their mission (apologies – this word has Christian connotations) here on this earth?

            Can you spin your way out of answering that?

            Reply
            • 33. Spectre  |  December 18, 2015 at 7:55 pm

              There you go again. Spin and spin, only this time you’re doing it with another name. Typically slick as always.

              Reply
              • 34. Kineas1067  |  December 19, 2015 at 11:02 am

                Good try, but as they say, no cigar.

                Why don’t you just answer my question upfront, instead of trying to wiggle out of being boxed into a corner?

                Reply
                • 35. islam1st  |  December 21, 2015 at 1:01 pm

                  Stay out of Malaysia lar. Why a Singapore kaki sibuk2 here? Life is too boring is it on the ‘red dot’??

                  Reply
      • 36. islam1st  |  December 17, 2015 at 6:57 pm

        ‘Then Muslim radicals come after them and they play victims.’

        These people breed radicals. Kena buku dengan ruas!

        Reply
  • 37. An Ordinary Malaysian  |  December 17, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    Helen,

    re: “These evangelistas are just so good at playing the poor li’l me victim card.”

    Those evangelistas are little different from Muslim zealots who cry out that they are being victimised against by or under threat from the Chinese, the Christians, flying unicorns, and oh, don’t forget the Jews :)

    Religions and religious adherents have never been very smart in identifying who their enemies are.

    Sometimes, they do not see that their enemies are those within their very own religion who call for death and destruction against other religions :)

    Like I said, they are not very smart but then they do believe in flying horses, turning water to wine, flying beings in the sky, etc etc.

    Evangelistas, Muslim zealots, they are all the same to me – they are just troublemakers who use religion to further their own personal desire for power and control.

    Reply
    • 38. Helen Ang  |  December 17, 2015 at 8:15 pm

      re: “they are just troublemakers who use religion to further their own personal desire for power and control”

      Do you not pity the ordinary Ah Pek and Ah Soh who are being led like lemmings off the cliff by the born-again DAP messiahs of ‘New Politics’?

      At least pity the misguided Purple Shirts hailing Hitler.

      Reply
      • 39. Spectre  |  December 18, 2015 at 9:03 am

        Re : Do you not pity the…….

        No, he and people like him belong to the Starbucks sipping type, their primary concern is consumerism and to a certain extend, materialism. The fate of those Ah Pek and Ah Soh, the Cina totok is not of his concern. These people are commonly known as bananas.

        Reply
      • 40. An Ordinary Malaysian  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:54 pm

        Helen,

        re: “Do you not pity the ordinary Ah Pek and Ah Soh who are being led like lemmings off the cliff by the born-again DAP messiahs of ‘New Politics’?”

        Yes, I do pity the Ah Peks and Ah Sohs who get conned by those evangelistas as much as I pity the Pak Ciks and Mak Ciks who get conned by the ustazs and ustazahs :)

        No different.

        There is no Heaven, there is no Paradise.

        There is only what we have on on Earth – deal with it :)

        Reply
        • 41. Helen Ang  |  December 19, 2015 at 9:06 am

          re: “There is only what we have on Earth – deal with it”

          There are 2.2 billion Christians who believe in paradise and 1.6 billion Muslims who believe in jannah. It is you who has to deal with this fact on the ground ‘cos these billions ain’t gonna go away.

          For one whole millennia, they’ve been crusading and jihading against each other.

          The current problem for us here is that Jerusubang evangelistas are unnecessarily and dangerously dragging the Chinese into their fight. Note that evangelism is unChinese and the evangelistas are freaking out Beijing and the provincial governments in China too.

          Guan Eng’s Wesak Day official message in year 2011 is illustrative of how his main preoccupation is with his own faith. It is a 421-word greeting in which ‘Buddha’ is not mentioned even a single time despite the auspicious day being one to commemorate the Gautama, Prince Siddhartha.

          In contrast to ‘Buddhist’ which is mentioned only twice (“Wesak Day’s theme as announced by the Malaysian Buddhist Association … reminds us that love and blessings is not just for Buddhists but for all mankind”), the word ‘Christian(s)’ is mentioned eight times.

          We should next review the context in which Guan Eng mentions Christian. In the second paragraph of the 17 May 2011 message, he said, “DAP calls on all Malaysians to stand up … against extremists …”.

          These extremists, he said, wanted to see Malaysia burn with hatred and violence. These extremists, by his reckoning, are not the Christians surely. So who was he referring to?

          A big clue can be found in the third paragraph of Guan Eng’s Wesak Day message that is wholly devoted to the plight of Christians. He said (making accusations against Utusan and Perkasa):

          “Malaysians are shocked and outraged at the inaction by the Home Ministry against Umno-owned paper Utusan Malaysia, for publishing dangerous lies of a Christian conspiracy with DAP to set up a Christian state, that is clearly intended to incite hatred against Christians. The BN government has also refused to act against Perkasa’s Ibrahim Ali for making Christians an object of hate by calling for a crusade (perang jihad) against Christians. Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishamudin Tun Hussein Onn even refused to call Ibrahim Ali an extremist for launching this crusade against Christians.”

          It’s Wesak Day but all Guan Eng talked about was Christians, Christians, Christians.

          In a separate Wesak greeting delivered on 16 May 2011, he additionally said: “Even though Christians and not Buddhists are targeted by Umno and Utusan Malaysia this time, what is there to stop Budhhists and Hindus from being the next targets in future”?

          See ho the evangelista politicians in the DAP are pitting the Chinese against the Malays. Guan Eng’s modus operandi does not change. He used his X’mas Day meesage to raise the kalimah ‘Allah’ issue and caused an uproar.

          We have a situation where 95 percent of the Chinese community – who are wholeheartedly throwing their support the evangelical party – are anti-BN. DAP is the nemesis of Umno and now made an enemy of PAS.

          DAP is egging its supporters to hate Umno (3.5 million members/Malays) and to spit contempt at PAS (one million members/Malays). Hence the Chinese are now the mortal enemy of many million Malays and their only temporary, transient Malay friends are in PAN.

          How tenable is that?

          Reply
          • 42. islam1st  |  December 19, 2015 at 4:15 pm

            Well said Helen. Well said!

            Reply
  • 43. Bart  |  December 17, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    You just love to harp on and on don’t you. Let it go Helen. And why do you need a Christian name? Are you a lapsef Christian?

    Reply
    • 44. Helen Ang  |  December 17, 2015 at 7:27 pm

      re: “And why do you need a Christian name?”

      Helen is not a Christian name. It’s a pantheon of Greek gods’ name popular thousands of years before Jesus was even born. Try watching the movie Troy (2004). The Greeks worshipped at temples … like the temple of Apollo, the Sun God shown in the movie.

      Hermes and Nike were the names of Greek gods too before appropriated to become famous brand names.

      Why don’t you educate yourself first, Bart, before displaying your ignorance and simply accusing?

      re: Are you a lapsef Christian?”

      I was born in a Buddhist family. I have never been a Christian.

      Reply
  • 45. anonymous  |  December 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    So is there any denial of proselytization of Malays by Christians from the churches?There weren’t any that press statement. Anti Christianization implies the seminar organizers say that there’s Christianization going on.

    I don’t know what’s exactly in the seminar anyway, but if there’s an SB officer running it under PDRM, well, maybe it’s important enough that all Malay Muslims should know. Or is it because they were trying to address the target group of anti Christianization?

    BTW that press statement link is broken.

    Reply
    • 46. Helen Ang  |  December 17, 2015 at 8:22 pm

      My apology. Have corrected.

      Here’s the link, http://ccmalaysia.org/index.php/2015/12/press-statement-ccm-uitm-seminar-against-christianisation/

      Reply
    • 47. drinho  |  December 21, 2015 at 7:26 pm

      Let me lay down some facts. Feel free to correct me if wrong.

      1. Proselytisation is illegal in Msia.
      2. Any act of proselytisation is punihsable by law.
      3. I have heard of many allegations and police reports of proselytisation.
      4. I have not seen any case being successfully brought, tried and convicted at our courts.
      5. I have not seen any mass application by Muslims in renouncing Islam.

      Looking at the above, is there any merit on the various allegation of proselytisation?

      Reply
      • 48. Helen Ang  |  December 21, 2015 at 7:51 pm

        1. Sedition is punishable by law in M’sia.
        2. Our rulers (the monarchy) are specifically protected by the Sedition Act.
        3. The Penyimpan Mohor Besar on behalf of the Raja-Raja Melayu (no less) made a police report against a false news item.
        4. There has not been any case brought to court in the above matter despite the complainants being super VVIPs.
        5. Is the lack of any court conviction for sedition – what happened to the Haris Ibrahim charge, Eric Paulsen … and of course, my bugbear the TMI editors – mean that no acts of sedition occurred?

        Looking at the above, is there any merit to the government retaining this sedition law?

        Reply
        • 49. drinho  |  December 22, 2015 at 10:49 am

          no. 1-agree,

          no. 2-agree,

          no. 3-agree (I assume you refer to this news http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/rulers-office-denies-issuing-hudud-remarks-lodges-police-report),

          no. 4-No prosecution at court. The matter stopped at police investigation.

          no. 5:
          Off hand, I can’t tell you on the conviction rate of sedition cases. But for sure, we have lots of sedition cases on-going at courts (approx. 15-20 cases ongoing). The accused are politicians, activist, lecturers, cartoonist etc. Not necessary for me to point out each and every on-going sedition trials.

          Now contrast the above with proselytisation cases. I challenge you to name at least one such case being tried at court currently or in the past. Can you?

          Let us not talk about successful conviction of proselytisation cases yet. Talk about trials of proselytisation cases first.

          Both cases of Haris Ibrahim and Eric Paulsen are ongoing:-

          http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/court-strikes-out-activist-haris-ibrahims-sedition-appeal

          http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2015/12/02/court-eric-paulsen-sedition-charge/

          Reply
          • 50. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 1:19 pm

            re: “Talk about trials of proselytisation cases first.”

            As far as I’m aware, when the dakwah is conducted by a Malay among his fellow Malays, the accused is ISA-ed, (e.g. Yeshua Jamaluddin) or sent for rehab.

            When the dakwah is conducted by a Christian (Joseph Arnold Lee) on a Malay (Nor Aishah Bokhari), the couple eloped to Australia.

            Mungkin Jakim akan mempertimbangkan untuk heret si pendakwah ke mahkamah. But first Jais has to investigate what the evangelistas like Hannah Yeoh we doing in the mosques or what they said in their tazkirah.

            The SB would obviously monitor the DAP’s political activity. But perhaps the policemen/detectives are not trained to monitor Christian religious activity, i.e. what the ustaz-ustaz are complaining about.

            Reply
            • 51. drinho  |  December 22, 2015 at 2:13 pm

              My point is despite the criminality of proselytisation, there is virtually zero case of prosecution at court. My questions:-

              1. Is there lack of enforcement by authority?; or
              2. Whether all the allegation of proselytisation are baseless and unsupported by evidence?

              Back in 2006, Perak mufti alleged that 100k Muslims had renounced Islam. Until today he has not supprted his allegation with proof. Neither has the authority took any action on the alleged proselytizer.

              https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/53608

              re: Jakim, JAIS, SB

              Are these people sleeping on their jobs judging from the lack of prosecution of proselytisation cases in court?

              Reply
              • 52. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 5:56 pm

                re: “Is there lack of enforcement by authority?”

                As a comparison, even when the complaint came from Majlis Raja-Raja, the Sedition Act was not enforced on TMI. The authorities work in mysterious ways.

                re: “Whether all the allegation of proselytisation are baseless and unsupported by evidence?”

                Recently, in the wake of the UiTM controversy, the IGP revealed that police reports have been made about proselytisation.

                Personally I believe the accusation against DUMC has basis and is supported by evidence but that for the sake of “peace and harmony”, the pastors were let off.

                In future and with the increasing assertiveness of the religious right, this kind of ‘compromise’ may no longer be on the cards. Furthermore the political calculus (Umno + PAS tango) has changed.

                Reply
                • 53. drinho  |  December 22, 2015 at 7:40 pm

                  re: The authorities work in mysterious ways.

                  The owner of TMI is a powerful tycoon. Have you seen any tycoon being prosecuted or sued by government?

                  re: the IGP revealed that police reports have been made about proselytisation.

                  Separation of duties in our criminal administration system. Police will investigate, AG will prosecute and court will judge guiltiness. Anyone can lodge police reports on proselytisation. If the police unable to get evidence, no paper will be passed to AG for prosecution.

                  re: sake of “peace and harmony”

                  In relation to DUMC, the former AG has decided not to prosecute. Precedent has been set. Despite the clear criminality of such bible, the law is rendered irrelevant by the former AG. JAIS is now powerless to enforce the prohibition.

                  re: (Umno + PAS tango)

                  If PAS stays with its own principles i.e. Islamic state and hudud, Umno has to implement at least the latter in order to attract PAS. I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Look at the progress of the Kelantan hudud bill. What happens to Hadi private member’s bill in Parliament? Till today, no solid cooperation is formed between Umno-Pas. Not to mention the strong objections by non-Malay parties in BN.

                  The so-called cooperation and goodwill that we see now is merely superficial without real and solid commitment. By commitment, I mean formal entry of Pas into BN with approval of BN parties and/or the passing/implementation of the Kelantan hudud law with federal government sanction.

                  Reply
                  • 54. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 8:29 pm

                    re: “The owner of TMI is a powerful tycoon. Have you seen any tycoon being prosecuted or sued by government?”

                    I hope Tong Kooi Ong will be prosecuted over Justo’s accusations. Thereafter his evil media empire should be dismantled.

                    re: “If the police unable to get evidence, no paper will be passed to AG for prosecution.”

                    The police need to work more closely with the religious enforcement officers. This business of sussing out evangelical missionaries is more ably conducted by Jakim, Jais et al.

                    After all, there are no arms/weapons (guns, knives) or physical injury (murder, beatings) involved, so police detectives may not be trained or equipped to detect these type of cases.

                    re: “In relation to DUMC, the former AG has decided not to prosecute. Precedent has been set. Despite the clear criminality of such bible, the law is rendered irrelevant by the former AG. JAIS is now powerless to enforce the prohibition.”

                    We have a new AG now.

                    re: (Umno + PAS tango)

                    re: “I doubt it will happen anytime soon.”

                    You’re probably correct. But nonetheless, the trajectory of Islamism would have been set.

                    re: “What happens to Hadi private member’s bill in Parliament?”

                    The process is likely to proceed following the recent court clearance, i.e. dismissal of the suit brought by Gerakan to block its reading in Parliament.

                    re: “Till today, no solid cooperation is formed between Umno-PAS.”

                    Don’t expect water to turn into wine overnight. What’s “solid”, however, is that both the Malay and the Islamic party are now united in regarding the DAP as mortal enemy.

                    re: “Not to mention the strong objections by non-Malay parties in BN.”

                    MCA is irrelevant. MIC and Gerakan only have six MPs between them. In the peninsula at least, there’s not much that the non-Malay parties in BN can do. For Sabah & Sarawak, Umno might strike a separate deal.

                    re: “The so-called cooperation and goodwill that we see now is merely superficial without real and solid commitment.”

                    Don’t be so quick to be in denial. Wait first and see how much further the hudud technical committee will be able to proceed.

                    re: “By commitment, I mean formal entry of PAS into BN with approval of BN parties”

                    Premature at this point. The reality is that in GE14, PAS will be able to snatch away an estimated (up to) 15 seats from the BN, i.e. Malay-majority constituencies currently held by MCA as well as those lost by the BN Chinese parties in GE13.

                    Then PAS will have its strong bargaining chip.

                    re: “and/or the passing/implementation of the Kelantan hudud law with federal government sanction”

                    Never say never. Who in the last four decades would have thought to see the Umno and PAS presidents sitting side by side so chummily on stage in matching-colour baju Melayu?

                    Reply
                    • 55. drinho  |  December 25, 2015 at 3:39 pm

                      re: I hope Tong Kooi Ong will be prosecuted over Justo’s accusations.

                      Highly unlikely looking at precedents since Merdeka. From Eric Chia’s to Tajuddin Ramli’s cases, the government ultimately dropped the cases. Tycoons will only be further enriched under BN regime.

                      re: This business of sussing out evangelical missionaries is more ably conducted by Jakim, Jais et al.

                      When you bring a case to court, you need solid evidence to ensure successful conviction. Trivial or subtle evidence like pakai tudung, masuk masjid or giving tazkirah etc are not sufficient to convict under the anti-proselytisation laws. You need clear evidence such as Muslims renouncing Islam. Just like a murder case. How to convict if there is no dead body or weapons? Anti-proselytisation laws are merely good on paper. Nicely worded conceptually but in reality, very hard to operate. Hence, the zero case of proselytisation of being tried and convicted at court.

                      re: (Umno + PAS tango)

                      Now some top Pas leaders have openly defied Hadi. Party No. 2 Tuan Ibrahim and No. 3 VPs Iskandar and Idris have made contradictory statements. Hadi may have succeeded in expelling the liberals (Sabu etc) in the recent Pas elections and replaced them with ulamaks. But not all ulamaks are in favour of Umno-Pas union.

                    • 56. Helen Ang  |  December 25, 2015 at 3:47 pm

                      re: zero case of proselytisation being tried and convicted in court

                      Then you’d better hope that the frustrated Muslims don’t take matters into their own hands and mete out mob justice as happened with the Natrah case.

                      re: “not all ulamaks are in favour of Umno-PAS union”

                      You can’t please everybody. But it will happen, nonetheless.

                    • 57. drinho  |  December 25, 2015 at 4:01 pm

                      re: frustrated Muslims

                      Which will frustrate the Muslims more? Alleged proselytisation (despite lack of clear evidence) or daily hardships (earn enough to put food on table and school the children)?

                      Imagine below:-

                      1. Let say Baju Merah wants to do a protest outside a church alleging proselytisation.
                      2. You are a Malay Muslim operating a stall selling nasi lemak and you have children to feed.
                      3. Baju Merah is not giving any allowance for participating in demo.
                      4. Will you choose to attend demo and risk yourself being detained by police (not to mention the loss of income)?
                      5. Or will you ignore the demo and operate your stall instead (ensure you will have money to buy food at the end of the day)?

                    • 58. Helen Ang  |  December 25, 2015 at 4:11 pm

                      If you sell your nasi lemak bungkus plus air mineral at the demo venue, you will make more profit that day than on a hari-hari biasa.

      • 59. Where's The Justice  |  December 21, 2015 at 8:01 pm

        It’s not too hard to spook an insecure bunch, and Helen is very good at that…

        Reply
        • 60. islam1st  |  December 21, 2015 at 9:54 pm

          And you butthurt as always. Too bad brader. Islam is THE Religion of the Federation. Try some other country will you??

          Reply
          • 61. drinho  |  December 22, 2015 at 2:15 pm

            re: Islam is THE Religion of the Federation

            Where is the consistency between Federation and State? Islam is not an official religion in Sabah & Sarawak.

            Reply
            • 62. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 5:46 pm

              re: “Islam is THE Religion of the Federation”

              That made sense when the Malaya constitution was drafted in 1957. When Malaysia was created, this article was carried forward.

              re: “Islam is not an official religion in Sabah & Sarawak.”

              The constitution of Sabah was amended in 1973 to declare “Islam is the religion of the State”.

              Reply
              • 63. drinho  |  December 22, 2015 at 7:19 pm

                Thanks for the correction on Sabah. No doubt Islam was made the state religion of Sabah. Even Bahasa was adopted as the state sole official language. However, both scenarios did not happen to Sarawak despite both state have the same autonomy.

                As long as Umno is absent in Sarawak and the state continues to be ruled by local parties, Sarawak will always have separate policies than the Federation in many areas.

                Reply
  • 64. AK47  |  December 18, 2015 at 11:19 am

    Ms H. The evangelistas are not true Christians because they are self-taught and arose anonymously like a sore in the hot and humid tropics. A better description is ‘ Chinese rice Christians’. I respect the conventional types.

    Reply

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