“The fringe, paranoid and crazy-eyed crowd”

December 21, 2015 at 11:24 pm 48 comments

Malay Mail liberal columnist Azrul Mohd Khalib – pictured below juxtaposed with his doppelganger Azira Aziz (Hannah Yeoh’s aide) – accuses UiTM of “promoting religious bigotry and hate” in his Dec 18 article titled ‘Bigotry wrapped in prayer is still bigotry‘.

BELOW: The Azrulazira ‘twins’

KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA - 2015/08/01: A protester was detained by Malaysian police during the "Tangkap Najib" (Arrest  Najib) protest in  Kuala Lumpur.They demand that Najib resigns as prime minister immediately. (Photo by Rasid Mohd/Pacific Press/LightRocket via Getty Images)

Hannah Yeoh worker Azira Aziz

BELOW: Azrul with the crew distributing flowers to churchgoers in Taman Medan

Azrul with Teresa Kok and DAP evangelista Segambut MP Lim Lip Eng

Azrul_Mohd_Khalid_Rev_Dr_Herman_Shastri

Azrul Mohd Khalib with DAP evangelista MPs Teresa Kok and Lim Lip Eng

DAP’s Dyana Samad had wanted action to be taken against UiTM.

Like Dyana, Azrul has a lot of nasty things to say about UiTM – see the phrases highlighted in yellow below from his recent Malay Mail article.

 

Dyana Samad button

Azrul wrote:

“… I am heartened by the many responses of rejection and revulsion from decent, right-minded religious Muslims who have been appalled at the abuses represented by this UiTM seminar. Some of the students who attended the event reportedly left with expressions of disgust and condemnation similar to the recent statements of Council of Churches Malaysia general secretary Reverend Dr Hermen Shastri and DAP’s Dyana Sofya.”

Hannah Yeoh wicked regime

BELOW:The fringe, paranoid and crazy-eyed crowd“, says Azrul of the Muslim NGO circles that organized the UiTM seminar

Click to enlarge

Entry filed under: Evangeliblis. Tags: .

Kejadian bukan kerana letupan bom — Ketua Polis Negara Beware the DAP sneaky bastards — warning by PAS

48 Comments Add your own

  • 1. anonymous  |  December 22, 2015 at 3:34 am

    There’s no need to listen to these people.

    These people only spend time with those church people and DAP people and therefore only echo those people. Skip the middleman.

    Doesn’t help it’s full of insults and insinuations and lots of negative things without even discussing or bothering to get explanations from UITM or any other Malay institution they are attacking, it’s almost like they are merely ventriloquist dummies and DAP are moving the strings and making them talk.

    If these Malays really believe in what they say and think they are trying to make a difference they are being stupid, because as long as Malays can see that they are being propped by DAP aligned media, they would perceive them as merely political tools or even converts and end up being provoked rather than listen to whatever they say. Which is more insults than anything constructive anyway.

    Maybe that is exactly what DAP wanted, though.

    Reply
    • 2. Melayu Malaysia  |  December 22, 2015 at 8:29 am

      Well said Anon, and will drive away more Melayus from DAP Malay puppets. Many Melayus are not that stupid anymore, (excluding the twin terrors, of course)

      I think they are addressing the DAP High priest/tess in order to buy favours

      Reply
    • 3. Kineas1067  |  December 22, 2015 at 9:02 am

      So, Malaysian Malays cannot be “liberals”? Why not?

      Are you saying that you cannot be “a good Muslim” and “a liberal” at the same time?

      Btw, did UiTM come up with a reason why it organised that particular seminar on that particular subject?

      If it is an academic institution that believes in academic freedom and the pursuit of truth and in rigorous academic discipline, it would have given the Christian churches or groups the opportunity to be represented at that seminar to put across their views or given them the right of reply.

      Neither of which it bothered to do.

      Who is being the “dummy” here? Those who mindlessly parrot the views of others on the purported divides between Islam and Christianity or the views of those who believe that Christianity has to be meek and subservient?

      Reply
      • 4. Spectre  |  December 22, 2015 at 9:43 am

        l o l !

        Malays can be liberals. Chinese can also be liberals. Anyone can. But the question is, who or what is a liberal ?

        In your case, a liberal is someone who echoes the views of the opposition. He or she must constantly parrot the views of say, PKR or DAP. To top it all, he or she must always shout the loudest when an opposing view appears on the scene.

        Yeah so much for being a liberal.

        Clearly your view of liberalism and freedom applies only to you possessing the rights to shove your ideas and worldview on everybody else while treating the views of others as ‘nothings’.

        Oh don’t bother to ask any rethorical questions and demand proof. That’s how people like you operate, hoping that somehow this is going to provoke people into responding in a manner you desire most, just like how the US is now provoking China with all this freedom of navigation nonsense in the South China Sea. We Chinese will deal with people like you in a time and place of our choosing.

        Reply
        • 5. Kineas1067  |  December 22, 2015 at 10:32 am

          Cute, but meaningless.

          Let’s use as a starting point the resolution on Malaysia that was tabled in the European Parliament. Would that be too much for you to fathom?

          Does “liberalism” and “freedom”, in your context, include freedom of religion with full freedom for all religions to evangelise and proselytise?

          Does it include full acceptance of LGBTs without any discrimination or prejudice?

          Does it specifically exclude all forms of discrimination, including racial and religious?

          Those are not specifically Opposition slogans, are they?

          Reply
          • 6. wawe  |  December 24, 2015 at 9:58 am

            Kineas the HAMPEHHH! That is the cutest description about you who always LABEL others in the first place. No matter what you write here is meaningless coz they are are nothing more than PROPAGANDAS. buerkk! btw why are you so excited about anything Uitm. Seems like you are allergic about that catchphrase, uitm.

            Reply
        • 7. Harlequin  |  December 22, 2015 at 12:23 pm

          Don’t look now, the Malays probably consider you a ‘liberal Chinese.’

          And Mulan too.

          Reply
      • 8. Prodak Sekolah Umum  |  December 22, 2015 at 10:07 am

        Who is being the ‘dummy’ here? The specific answer is you! dummy!
        For filling up your empty dummy head, no Malaysian Malay Muslim worth their salt will proclaim themselves a ‘liberal’ in your context or the the context as espoused by some dummy liberal Malay Muslim(?). Every TRUE Muslim in the whole wide world were ‘fundamentalist’ not liberal nor dummy.
        Why should UiTM tell any of you who were bent on spreading your belief and ideology targeting the Malaysian Malay Muslim what their agenda were? They were just doing what they did to warn fellow Muslims to be aware of the the cheating ways of some group to murtadized the Muslims in Malaysia.
        Do your people invite Muslim leaders/adherents to your meetings on the how, when, where and what of your prostelyzation programs were?
        And do not be too clever in trying to teach us Muslims on how to pratice our religion because Muslims never teach you how to practice your religion!

        Reply
      • 9. Prodak Sekolah Umum  |  December 22, 2015 at 10:09 am

        Who is being the ‘dummy’ here? The specific answer is you! dummy!
        For filling up your empty dummy head, no Malaysian Malay Muslim worth their salt will proclaim themselves a ‘liberal’ in your context or the the context as espoused by some dummy liberal Malay Muslim(?). Every TRUE Muslim in the whole wide world were ‘fundamentalist’ not liberal nor dummy.
        Why should UiTM tell any of you who were bent on spreading your belief and ideology targeting the Malaysian Malay Muslim what their agenda were? They were just doing what they did to warn fellow Muslims to be aware of the the cheating ways of some group to murtadized the Muslims in Malaysia.
        Do your people invite Muslim leaders/adherents to your meetings on the how, when, where and what of your prostelyzation programs were?
        And do not be too clever in trying to teach us Muslims on how to practice our religion because Muslims never teach you how to practice your religion!

        Reply
        • 10. Kineas1067  |  December 22, 2015 at 2:18 pm

          So, no “freedom of religion”, per se?

          That says much about monumental insecurities!

          And the “illiberals” in Malaysia are perfectly happy to work with “liberals” in the areas of trade, finance, investments, defence, security and economic development?

          Isn’t that also being monumentally hypocritical?

          Reply
          • 11. Prodak Sekolah Umum  |  December 22, 2015 at 6:42 pm

            You just proved yourself to be a ‘dummy’! right?
            I think you easily forget what you wrote in the previous line while you were busy tapping the following sentence! tsk, tsk…
            By the way what “liberals” are you referring to? Is it not about the MUSLIM liberals?
            Bringing up other aspects of liberty to cover your unthinking reference about LIBERAL MUSLIMS does show that you are really confused. Stay on one topic at a time will you. Beating around the bush is just one of your modus operandi and I’m not impressed at all.
            A stupid dummy of your type pretending to be a high end liberal hypocrite can be found by the lorry loads in every nooks and corners of this world!

            Reply
            • 12. Kineas1067  |  December 23, 2015 at 4:50 pm

              Really? What is the point that you are trying to make? That the phrase “liberal Muslim” is flawed or wrong because Muslims’ raison d’etre is to be “illiberal” or “not liberal”?

              So, while the followers of other religions can decide whether to be “liberal” or “not liberal”, Muslims are constrained into the “illiberal” category?

              That’s a mighty breathtaking claim to make.

              And it takes a dummy to recognise another dummy, right?

              Reply
              • 13. wawe  |  December 24, 2015 at 10:06 am

                Either you do not read peoples’ retaliation of your comments or you do not understand them. Either way shows your timidity and lacking somewhere. You simply write anything to the point of meaningless just for the sake of fighting no matter how untrue and twisted your remarks are. Seems like you are paid to do your job but it comes to naught here. And your remarks are merely full of negative expletives without much weight and content whatsoever. This observation could be repeated for each of your remarks here.

                Reply
      • 14. Chris  |  December 22, 2015 at 11:13 am

        re: “So, Malaysian Malays cannot be “liberals”? Why not? Are you saying that you cannot be “a good Muslim” and “a liberal” at the same time?”

        Kineas, before you immerse yourself in accusative soliloquy on “liberality”, it might pay to refer to the OED’s various denotations of the word (my examples here):

        i) Sam was too “liberal” with the stout.
        ii) They could have given the ISA a more “liberal”
        interpretation when confronting the communists.
        iii) Anwar’s political party advocates “liberal” policies.
        iv) He also holds “liberal” views towards same-sex marriage.
        v) Political liberals are commonly devoid of a foundational
        “liberal” arts education.

        Are you being liberal on the matter of “good Muslims”? What pray tell us are your liberal criteria for “good Christians” for that matter?

        Reply
        • 15. Kineas1067  |  December 22, 2015 at 1:16 pm

          Not really. Try again. And keep on trying….hahaha. No need to engage in “soliloquy”.

          “good Christians” are called to spread their faith. In other words, evangelisation.

          Pope Francis has spoken about a “new evangelisation”. Go read up about it.

          As for your varied interpretations of the word “liberal”, all the examples you have given are valid. And what is wrong with that?

          I think that Donald Trump is not being “liberal” when it comes to Islam and Muslims. Are you supporting his “illiberal” views in this instance when a particular religion and it’s adherents are targetted?

          Reply
          • 16. Chris  |  December 22, 2015 at 1:47 pm

            But Kineas, your train of argument runs all over the place. Sure, they’re all valid usages of the word – but they are not necessarily mutually supportive semantically – but which meaning were you holding in your mind when you used it on “liberal” muslims? Keep Donald out of the picture – it would aid a more critical analysis of the matter at hand.

            Reply
          • 17. Muhammad Muhammad  |  December 22, 2015 at 4:19 pm

            Soliloquy, Kineas?

            I’d rather think that it is you who has been ‘shiok sendiri berbual sendiri’.

            Do you notice that you never really directly address any points made by the previous person commenting? You just use lame diversionary tactics like

            ‘Cute, but meaningless’ …

            just to taichi them away.

            You can write whatever garbage you want,

            but I bet it would piss you off if everyone replied

            ‘Cute, but meaningless’.

            You gave two long replies to a previous comment of mine … which I found to be filled with blanket accusations and assertions about my character and beliefs.

            You know what, if I feel like it, I might consider replying
            ‘Cute, but meaningless’ to that mass of garbage and gutter pseudo intellectualism that you seem to revel in with much superiority complex.

            Get off your high moral horse Kineas. You may regard yourself as intellectually superior to everyone who disagrees with you … but to me … you sound like a monkey who has just learnt sign language … and who thinks she has mastered wisdom itself.

            Reply
            • 18. wawe  |  December 24, 2015 at 10:13 am

              Spot on Brother. Haha, I had been thinking the same thing about this Kineas thing but never got to ‘pen’ it down, Thanks, dude and well done!

              Reply
  • 19. Orang Perlis  |  December 22, 2015 at 10:34 am

    I think for this issue, i dont think its as simple as agree = conservative, disagree = liberal. Commenter Grandmarquis made a comment about this several topics back, i certainly dont think he is a liberal ( judging by the writing on his blog). To me, the ends does not justify the means and i agree the way this seminar was done , was in bad taste lah.

    Reply
    • 20. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 1:26 pm

      re: “the way this seminar was done, was in bad taste lah”

      But the other side made two specific accusations, i.e. (1) the seminar was “anti-Christian and (2) it was bashing Christianity.

      Perhaps the common ground we can agree on is that it was to caution against missionary activities, i.e. process of Christianization.

      If the evangelistas want to go to town with their allegations, then they should reveal which speaker (name) said what (quote) that might be construed as “anti” the Christians and bashing the religion.

      Otherwise the evangelistas are equally demonizing the Muslim NGOs just as much as they’ve accused UiTM of demonizing them.

      Reply
    • 21. I Am Woman  |  December 22, 2015 at 6:21 pm

      “the way the seminar was done was in bad taste”. Not really. It was the publicity and spin given by the opposition media that made it into something worse than what it was. I believe the target audience were Muslims and it was aimed at cautioning the Muslims that there is a movement among the evangelists to spread Christianity in a way that may be detrimental to relations. I do not see anything wrong with such a cautionary stand.

      And on the liberal issue. What does it mean by being a liberal? If you are talking about liberalism in the political sense then no, we are not liberals. We do not have a liberal government. We are governed by a Constitution that holds the monarchy in a special place (no equality among the people and the monarch), place Islam as the religion of the state (hence no equality in religion), holds Bahasa Malaysia (Melayu) as the official language and outlines the special position of the bumiputras.

      And if you are talking about Islam, there is no ABSOLUTE freedom in Islam. There are rules that govern our lives from the moment we were born to our last breath. The liberalism as spread by the west is antithesis to the Islam that I know and practice.

      Reply
      • 22. Harlequin  |  December 22, 2015 at 7:38 pm

        IAW

        Re: We are governed by a Constitution that holds the monarchy in a special place (no equality among the people and the monarch), place Islam as the religion of the state (hence no equality in religion), holds Bahasa Malaysia (Melayu) as the official language and outlines the special position of the bumiputras.

        You are wrong.

        From dictionary: “Liberal” describes someone who is has an open mind, free from bigotry or bias, not constrained by standard doctrine

        Being liberal does not mean going against what you have written above.

        Liberalists believe:

        Though

        – Islam is the religion on the state, other religion has the right to exist and flourish
        – BM is the official language but there is nothing wrong for others to uphold their mother tongue and attend vernacular schools if they so desire.
        – The bumiptras hold special position but that does not render others subservient.

        Re: .. there is no ABSOLUTE freedom in Islam.There are rules that govern our lives from the moment we were born to our last breath.

        You are playing with words by applying ‘absolute.’

        Of course there is no ‘absolute’ freedom in ALL religion.

        But any true religion will not take away the ‘will’ of its adherents. Simply because the will/choice of their followers are what separate the faithfuls from mere numbers.

        Reply
        • 23. Harlequin  |  December 22, 2015 at 7:48 pm

          Typo error:

          ‘Liberalists beieve’ should be Liberals believe….

          Tq

          Reply
          • 24. islam1st  |  December 27, 2015 at 1:27 am

            ‘– Islam is the religion on the state, other religion has the right to exist and flourish
            – BM is the official language but there is nothing wrong for others to uphold their mother tongue and attend vernacular schools if they so desire.
            – The bumiptras hold special position but that does not render others subservient.’

            Cherry picking nampak! Baca la Perlembagaan Persekutuan brader. Letih la. Libertarians konon!

            Reply
            • 25. Harlequin  |  December 27, 2015 at 10:18 am

              Islam1st

              Not cherry picking but trying to define what is liberal view.

              Btw, holding liberal views have little to do with the ideological concept of liberalism.

              The word sounds the same but different in meaning.

              Just like you having a gay/happy outlook in life does not mean you are a supporter of the rainbow movement.

              Btw, why MIA so long?

              Reply
        • 26. Keris  |  December 22, 2015 at 9:00 pm

          In classical mainstream Islam, freedom of choice (kasab) and intentional action (ikhtiar) are fundamental to the life of the soul and serve as determinants of its future conditions.
          As for Islamists and Wahhabis they will have to answer for themselves.

          Reply
          • 27. Helen Ang  |  December 22, 2015 at 9:27 pm

            Who are the ‘Islamists’ by your reckoning and why do you think they do not belong to classical mainstream Islam?

            Reply
            • 28. Keris  |  December 23, 2015 at 12:35 am

              In the Name of Allah Most Compassionate All-Merciful

              On the Day (of Judgement), the people will be separated [into categories] to be shown [the result of] their deeds.
              So whoever does an atom’s weight of good shall see it, And whoever does an atom’s weight of evil shall see it.
              {Quran 99: 6-8}
              ___

              Some observations from an accomplished scholar on the phenomenon of Islamism – Sheikh Abdul Hakim Murad of Cambridge University:

              * ‘Islam is not Islamism – never forget this – but the latter operates in the name of the former, and this is the grave question of the name.’ (comment by Derrida) *

              – Islamism could justify money laundering, scams, bank robberies, prostitution, drug trade and a host of other “haram” activities to fund what it sees as a (political) battle for Islam
              – The key idea here is Islamism – it is unofficial repudiated Islam, which does not represent nor assist Islam, except that it thinks it does. It is like someone who starts a fan club or dedicates fan fiction to a celebrity even though the celebrity rejects it.

              * “Islamism: untie your camel, and trust in God.” *

              – Islamism has no trust or reliance in Allah; it only has reliance upon itself and sees itself as the vanguard and sole force to protect Islam when Allah has promised to preserve this religion.

              * “Islamism replaces religion with the idea of it.” *

              – Islamism advocates an idea of Islam that it likes and romanticizes as glorious rather than actually living religion as a life story, because Islamism sees Islam as dead when it is actually living (as classical ahl sunnah wal jamaah Islam).

              * “Islamism: the Holy Prophet marching.*

              – It is the only image of the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wa salam) that Islamists think of or know of

              * “Islamism’s fire will leave only ashes.” *

              – The fire will not spread but will die out and leave only ashes of the Muslims (eg. the works of al-Qaeda and ISIS).

              * “Islamism is the Frankenstein of Frankistan.” *

              – Islamism is a zombie resurrected from the dead and defunct ideologies of the West’s past; the Orientalist blood-thirsty caricatures, the utopianism of the Communists, and often somehow ending up serving the political interests of the West in some way, shape or form by making (mainstream) Muslims look bad (and demonizing them).

              Reply
              • 29. Helen Ang  |  December 23, 2015 at 1:35 am

                Thanks for the explanation.

                I’m also presuming that your following line – “Islamism could [be wrongly used to] justify money laundering, scams, bank robberies …” – is your own paraphrase :)

                Funny the role reversal. You quoted a scholar based in Cambridge Uni. Tariq Ramadan, as another example, is teaching in Oxford.

                It appears that it’s the Western universities today that are preserving some of these Islamic scholars whereas there was a time past when the Islamic centres of learning had recovered the Western body of knowledge (e.g. Greek corpus translated into Arabic) which would otherwise have been swallowed by the European Dark Ages.

                Reply
                • 30. Keris  |  December 23, 2015 at 8:35 am

                  You are welcome Kak Helen, Yes, today many scholars have arisen in the West who are on a mission to translate and explain the spiritual heritage of classical Islam.

                  Some Islamist groups are involved in kidnapping for ransom money, bank robbery, drug trafficking, . . .

                  https://www.naij.com/310779-who-pays-to-boko-haram.html

                  Different Islamist groups fund their radical objectives differently but they commonly find little problem in resorting to illegitimate means. In classical Islam however, the ends do not justify the means – except when the course of action can be verified by authentic proofs and sagacious scholarship.

                  “O you who have believed, be persistent in standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is well acquainted with everything you do. Allah has promised forgiveness and great merit for those who have faith and do righteous deeds. But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs (resorting to illegitimate unjust violence) – those are the companions of Hell-Fire.” [Quran ch.5: v. 8-10]
                  ____

                  This is the sheikh lecturing on causality, natural law, religious guidance and free will:

                  Between Faith and Liberty – Islam on Freedom

                  Reply
                  • 31. Helen Ang  |  December 23, 2015 at 10:05 am

                    re: “Different Islamist groups fund their radical objectives differently but they commonly find little problem in resorting to illegitimate means.”

                    In the eras closer to Prophet Muhammad’s time, the Muslims would have funded their cause from the spoils of war.

                    Reply
                    • 32. Abdullah  |  December 23, 2015 at 3:16 pm

                      Barely three decades after the demise of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. civil war broke out within the Muslim nation. The people of truth were being subjugated by the insincere and the hypocrites among the nominal Muslims. Spoils of war were greedily sought after in the hands of those false leaders who had succumbed to the pleasures of the world – which did not bring benefit the fortunes of the common people. They had contravened the sunnah or behaviour of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. and his descendants and true followers, of which this is a true story:

                      The family of the Prophet (s.a.w.) were often tested with scarcity. The household of the Prophet’s daughter, Fatima was at one time so wrought with poverty that the head of the family, Ali ibn Abi Talib persuaded his wife Fatima to seek her father’s help. When Fatima arrived at the Prophet’s house, he was busy administering to the gifts of livestock and food provisions which the people from the outer provinces had presented to the inhabitants of Madinah.

                      Fatima’s knocks on the front door reverberated through the house in the still of night. The Prophet (s.a.w.) turned towards his companion servant saying:
                      “Ummu Aiman, this is the sound of Fatima’s knocking. She doesn’t usually come at this time of night. What could have brought her here?” Ummu Aiman opened the door and it was indeed Fatima bearing glad greetings. She blessed her father and continued, “Oh Messenger of Allah, if angels are nourished by “dzikr” – they who relish in chants attesting the One Lord and glorifying and praising Him – how about us humans?“ She remained quiet awaiting an answer.

                      “Oh my child, Allah Almighty charged me with proclaiming the truth to humanity” he spoke, “ . . . my child, no fire has burned in your father’s household for the last thirty days . . . but a flock of sheep has just arrived and if you wish, I could send you five heads of lamb. Yet, if you choose, I will teach you instead, five holy verses which the Angel Gabriel recently revealed to me.“

                      “Father, teach me the verses of Gabriel, may peace be upon him.“

                      “Say, child : “Yaa awwalal awwaliin, wa yaa aakhiral aakhiriin, wa yaa dzal quwwatil matiin, wa yaa raahimal masaakiina, wa yaa arhamar-rahimiin”.
                      ( Oh Lord Who art First of the first and the Last of the last! Oh Lord Almighty Most Firm! Oh Most Clement to the poor, oh Most Compassionate and Merciful! )

                      Fatima headed home in high spirits. She was returning empty-handed, but in her heart was a priceless provision. “What have you gotten, Fatima?” asked her beloved husband. “When I left you awhile ago, we were seeking worldly needs, but I have returned to you with something of the hereafter,” she declared. On learning of Allah’s charity and wisdom, Ali, the man of great faith applauded her: “This is the best day of your life, Fatima! ”

                      What good is worldly life that does not lead to everlasting happiness?

                      – Source: Al-Kandahlawi, Hayaatus Sahaabah (Lives of the Companions) vol 3.

                    • 33. Abdullah  |  December 24, 2015 at 10:54 am

                      Today, the 12th day in the month of Rabi al-Awwal 1437 A.H. is the blessed birthday of Prophet Muhammad – the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. The majority of muslims all over the world – or ahlus sunnah wa’l jamaah – believe that the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is the ‘Light from Allah’ personified. When he took birth 15 centuries ago, angels came to offer his beloved mother Aminah a drink the whitest of milks and more delicious than honey; they had arrived in adoration of the infant Muhammad s.a.w. Three angels flew towards the Ka’abah: while one hovered over the monument, another flew towards the east and the other to the west. At this point a tremendous light radiated outwards from the Ka’abah illuminating the entire universe. By this miraculous light, mother Amina could clearly see the palaces in the distant lands of Syria and Palestine.

                      At this time too, the temple fire which the Zoroastrians of Persia had been worshipping for a thousand years was extinguished and many of its temple columns became dislodged and crashed. While inside the Ka’abah, the idols of deities which the Meccan pagans worshipped also tipped over and fell and could not be set aright. He who was sent as a mercy from the Lord on High had arrived to illumine the world, and darkness, wickedness and injustice had lost their power to overcome.

                      * * * * * * *

                      Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

                      Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The likeness of His Light is as if there were a niche within which sits a lamp enclosed in glass which is brilliant as a star – lit up by a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, eventhough fire has not touched it: Light upon light! Allah guides whomsoever He wills to His Light.
                      And Allah sets forth parables to instruct men: and He knows all things. (Quran ch. Nur: v. 35)

                      * * * * * * *
                      Abdur Razzaq mentioned with his chain of transmitters that Jabir ibn `Abdullah once asked: “O Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be dedicated for your sake. Please tell me of the first thing Allah created before all things.” The Prophet replied:
                      “O Jabir, the first thing Allah created was the light of your Prophet from His Light, and that light whirled in the midst of His Almightiness for as long as He wished. At that time there was no (Divine)Tablet, nor the Pen (of Decree), nor a Paradise nor a Hellfire nor any angels (of light) nor a cosmos nor the earth.
                      But when Allah wished to create creation, he divided that light into four parts and from the first He made the Pen, from the second the Tablet, from the third the (Heavenly) Throne, [and from the fourth everything else in the natural universe – the elements, physical worlds, living beings, plants and animals]

                      This hadith narrated by Imam Ibn Hajar al Haytami in his Fatawa al Hadithiyyah, p.289

                  • 34. Spectre  |  December 23, 2015 at 11:04 am

                    I trust that you are also aware that many so called ‘scholars’ in the west also liberally interpret Confucian teachings to suit their ‘taste’.

                    Reply
                    • 35. Keris  |  December 23, 2015 at 11:26 am

                      Sorry, I’m not aware of any such scholar, although there exist many “liberal” scholars of Islam who are inclined towards socio-political interpretations and partial views about the religion. They may hit the target on some important points but can go off course in other directions altogether.

        • 36. I Am Woman  |  December 22, 2015 at 9:28 pm

          I am not wrong. In political context, liberalism started out as the political doctrine of a revolutionary class fighting against a feudalistic system. If you look at wiki’s definition of liberalism then it is “Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.”

          You wrote : “Liberalists believe:

          Though

          – Islam is the religion on the state, other religion has the right to exist and flourish
          – BM is the official language but there is nothing wrong for others to uphold their mother tongue and attend vernacular schools if they so desire.
          – The bumiptras hold special position but that does not render others subservient.”

          What you wrote above is not just what liberals believe. That is the Constitution that all Malaysians adhered to, nothing to do with being liberal. We are already practicing the above (maybe the bumiputra part is contentious). The liberals want other religions to be equal to Islam in the Constitution, which we Muslims (not including the G25 clan) will not agree to. They also want English and Mandarin to be recognised as official languages of Malaysia.

          “But any true religion will not take away the ‘will’ of its adherents”. I don’t know about others but in Islam the “will” or the choices you make must be based on the tenets of Islam. Let’s look at sex, in any form. If you are having sex with anyone who is not your legal spouse, then it is haram. No two ways about it. There is no free “will” here. Of course, Muslims still do it knowing that they are committing a major sin. You call the ones who abstain as faithful, we know them as Muslims. Since some go with their “will” you consider them liberals, but to the majority Muslims they are sinners.

          You think “absolute freedom of choice” is about words. We Muslims take it absolutely seriously.

          Reply
          • 37. Harlequin  |  December 22, 2015 at 11:52 pm

            IAW

            Re: liberals vs liberalists

            I had typo error on my reply which I later put right.

            I typed ‘liberalists’ when I meant to say ‘liberals’.

            To be clear,

            Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.”

            Liberalist n. someone who believes in the tenets of liberalism

            Liberal adj. open-minded; considers multiple opinions; does not accept orthodox doctrine.

            You asked (and some others) what does it mean to be liberal (Muslim)?

            The general interpretation of non-Muslims when talking about ‘liberal’ Muslims pertain more towards their liberal attitude as a whole than judging them rigidly as someone who profess to adhere to the tenets of liberalism.

            In fact, liberals don’t sit well with most doctrinal and idealogical school of thoughts.

            The gist of it is, the so-called liberal Muslims we talked about has little to do with liberalism, the ideology. It’s more to do their (Muslim liberals) willingness to accept others and their ‘unIslamic’ choices .

            Quote: If you are having sex with anyone who is not your legal spouse, then it is haram. No two ways about it. There is no free “will” here. Of course, Muslims still do it knowing that they are committing a major sin. You call the ones who abstain as faithful, we know them as Muslims. Since some go with their “will” you consider them liberals, but to the majority Muslims they are sinners.

            As for freewill, I am not talking about the will to sin. Commentator Keris did answer my thoughts.

            No, I don’t expect liberal Muslims to be those who are laxed in their faith. What we call liberals when talking in the context of liberal Muslims simply meant Muslims who don’t go round setting the bar of ‘Islam-ness’ on non-Muslims nor expect others to measure up to their golden standard.

            Reply
            • 38. I Am Woman  |  December 23, 2015 at 2:20 pm

              From my perspective the seminar was not about setting the bar of Islam on others, it’s not about imposing ” Islamness” on non-Muslims. It was not a measure of being liberal. It was about countering Christianisation, proselytising by the evangelists. There has been a lot of Christian movement such as the Take Johor for Jesus, the Kalimah Allah, the Sarawak program. If Muslims were imposing their Islam on everyone, such programs would not be possible.

              How is that while the evangelists can organised such programs, they are also whining about being persecuted?

              Reply
              • 39. Spectre  |  December 23, 2015 at 2:32 pm

                The victim complex. The whining never stops. Speaking of being persecuted, what about the 6 million Jews slaughtered by the Nazis and the countless millions of indigenous tribesmen in Africa, along with native Americans and Chinese and Indians, all victims of white evangelical Christians ? It never occurs to these people that their hypocrisy is naked. Wait till that 1067 boy comes in. Nothing agitates him more than Christians being persecuted l o l !

                Reply
              • 40. Harlequin  |  December 23, 2015 at 4:14 pm

                IAW

                You posed a legit question what makes a Malay a liberal in the eyes of the non-Malays.

                I attempted to answer you.

                That inadvertently comes around to the question about liberal Muslims.

                Again, I answered liberal Muslims to be those who do not attempt to impose their ‘Islamic’ values on others.

                Seems you have now revert back to the core discussion about the anti-christianisation seminar. Since I am not privy to what was discussed in the seminar, I have little to comment on.

                My personal thoughts are, if Muslims intend to educate their brethren on proselytisation, then they should do it along the line ‘how to reinforce one’s faith.’

                You know what they say, to hope temptation don’t come a calling, one is better off defeating temptation with resoluteness in their faith. The enemies of faith do not come from only opposing faiths, it comes in many forms.

                Reply
                • 41. I Am Woman  |  December 28, 2015 at 7:19 pm

                  Back from my break.

                  I have to be honest. I hate labels, especially the label “liberal” when used in the context of open-mindedness. I find the person who professed to be liberal use that label to enable them to impose their liberalness on others, as if being a liberal is the ultimate in being a good human.

                  When a person like Alvin Tan spew vitriol at the Malay Muslims, we are supposed to take that as the act of an idiot out to cause trouble, nothing to do with race or religion. When a Malay does the same thing, suddenly the whole Malay Muslim community must proclaim their stand against such person and even after we have proclaimed such a stand we are still as a race/religion accountable for the act of such person.

                  To put in another way, when some punks threw pig’s head at the mosque they are not Chinese or Christians, they are just idiots. When the malay punks attacked Low Yat, it’s because they are Malay Muslims who have been brainwashed by Umno and/or religion.

                  Coming back to your interpretation of Muslim liberal: “The general interpretation of non-Muslims when talking about ‘liberal’ Muslims pertain more towards their liberal attitude as a whole” and furthermore “who do not attempt to impose their ‘Islamic’ values on others.”

                  Haven’t the Muslims particularly those in government been fair to others since independence? Did we impose our values on others and how? Did the government impose a public ban on Xmas? Are people not able to hold their Thaipusam procession? I can still hear the bells from the Hindu temple ring every evening. The church bells only stopped in the past year since the over 100-year old Catholic church (left by the colonial British) has seen a drastic drop in membership as the youth move to new churches.

                  “My personal thoughts are, if Muslims intend to educate their brethren on proselytisation, then they should do it along the line ‘how to reinforce one’s faith.’ ” We have that all the time.

                  Reply
                  • 42. Harlequin  |  December 29, 2015 at 12:17 pm

                    IAW

                    Quote: “I find the person who professed to be liberal use that label to enable them to impose their liberalness on others, as if being a liberal is the ultimate in being a good human. “

                    I don’t know if being liberal minded is an end in itself, as you put it, the ultimate. I would say it is the very least, a pre-requisite for a civil co-existence in a multi racial country.

                    For every Alvins, there is always his equal in the Ahmads out there, perhaps lesser known, who hold the same reckless abandonment in civility. Truth is, racists and bigots come in all sizes and color.

                    Quote: “When a Malay does the same thing, suddenly the whole Malay Muslim community must proclaim their stand against such person and even after we have proclaimed such a stand we are still as a race/religion accountable for the act of such person.”

                    When it comes to the Malay, there is little singularity to distinguish an individual from the community. This is no accident and is intended by design by UMNO in their tactical racial play.

                    The Malay Government, Perkida, Perkasa, Jakim and other Malay NGOs all with the shared purpose of upholding Malay sanctity and rights. Each to fight the Malaysian Chinese and Indian threat against the Malay ketuanan whenever necessary.

                    Low Yat, Kota Raya and Kiki’s altercation with Chinese uncle, has started off with individual brushes but ended up with interventions from Malay interest groups.

                    The Chinese (and Indians, but I will leave them out in our current discussion) do not have race based interest groups to defend in the name of race nor religion. MCA and DAP came the closest but we know how the Chinese think of MCA. Quite rightly too. There is a conflict of interest when MCA yield little influence in the coalition and is at the mercy of UMNO for ministerial posts.

                    As for DAP, under the glittery loud wrappings of equality and anak Malaysia, like Helen wrote in one of her recent post, is nothing but another political party with no back bone. Sure, once in a while they (DAP) might stand up for the berated Chinese, but how far are they willing to go when they have no qualms kissing the hands and feet of the Malays if that is what takes them to reach Putrajaya.

                    In the Low Yat fiasco, who remember the name of the Malay kid who started the whole thing? Names in Kota Raya?

                    People only remember Ali TInju standing in front of LY riling up the Malay mob in the name of ‘demi maruah Melayu.’ There is little doubt non-Malays tend to view altercations with Malays as skirmishes with the Malay institution as a whole and not individually.

                    Quote: “Haven’t the Muslims particularly those in government been fair to others since independence?”

                    Fairness is subjective. Depends which side of the fence you are standing on I supposed. I won’t go into this.

                    Quote: “My personal thoughts are, if Muslims intend to educate their brethren on proselytisation, then they should do it along the line ‘how to reinforce one’s faith.’ ” We have that all the time.

                    Good to know. Then all should be well. Malays are adamant (quite rightly) when non-Muslims criticize Muslims for their weak akidah in face of short skirts, low cleavage and crosses. The problem is, the Muslims are quite contented to designate their faith matters to those organisations that professed to speak for all Malay Muslims like Jakim and some imans. To make thing worse, these organisations in their bid to be seen free from political inklings, chose to place the onus onto Muslims themselves when coming up with politically riddled decisions like crosses and what not will weaken a Muslim’s akidah etc.

                    Muslims are well aware it ain’t that easy, right?

                    Reply
  • 43. Mulan  |  December 22, 2015 at 11:29 am

    “DAP’s Dyana Samad had wanted action to be taken against UiTM.

    Like Dyana, Azrul has a lot of nasty things to say about UiTM – see the phrases highlighted in yellow below from his recent Malay Mail article.”

    Does anyone care what Dyana has to say?
    These guys. Nope.
    http://khairulryezal.blogspot.my/2015/11/pemilihan-dapsy-pusat-risalah-keluar.html

    The voters
    http://siasahdaily.blogspot.my/2014/06/kenapa-dyana-sofya-kalah-di-teluk-intan.html

    So why should we care?

    Reply
  • 44. gunting lipatan  |  December 22, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2015/12/22/pas-tuan-ibrahim-statement/

    gunting menggunting

    Reply
    • 45. the cut of a real man  |  December 22, 2015 at 1:33 pm

      Tuan Ibrahim stands a shoulder above the PAS pinkie president.

      Reply
  • 46. amir yusof  |  December 22, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    ” Birds of a feather flock together ” .

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/21/why-the-israeli-occupation-is-failing/

    It’s all about the number .

    http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/display/ContentDetails/i/2244

    When minority rules .

    Ps ; bangsa yg terus-terusan mendukung kebatilan memang bangsat !

    Reply
    • 47. I Am Woman  |  December 23, 2015 at 12:26 am

      Thank you for that 5 Broken Cameras.

      Reply
  • 48. Kineas1067  |  December 23, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    “British Muslim family barred by US officials from boarding plane to Disneyland” (www.straitstimes.com).

    Are the US officials being “crazy-eyed and paranoid”? Or being pragmatically realistic?

    Reply

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