Orlando mass shooting sparks another round of Islamophobia

June 13, 2016 at 8:49 am 110 comments

Update: 12.30pm

If you read Malaysia’s English language press that is controlled/dominated by the Christians, then you will understand the Quran’s verse 2:120.

One example of sengaja nak kenakan orang Melayu-Islam can be seen @ http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/as-world-grieves-over-orlando-shooting-some-malaysians-welcome-killings


Original posting

1. Omar Mateen killed at least 50 people and wounded 53 more after opening fire on patrons of a gay nightclub in Florida, according to breaking news.

2. The gunman’s father Seddique Mateen suggested a possible catalyst for Omar’s shooting spree. Seddique revealed that his son had been infuriated by the sight of men touching and kissing in the public toilet a few months before.

3. On Sunday, Omar also took 30 hostages in Orlando city’s Pulse nightclub. They were rescued by police who shot dead their captor.


SIDE NOTE: Offering “thoughts and prayers”, “prayers and thoughts” is the standard operating procedure driving the evangelistas’ quick-fix PC (political correctness) bandwagon


4. FBI had previously probed Omar in two terror-related cases, reports said. It appears Omar pledged allegiance to ISIS prior to carrying out his massacre.

5. ISIS has claimed responsibility for the shooting which President Obama called an “act of terror”.

6. Donald Trump, predictably, was quick to weigh in.

The New York Times described Trump’s anti-Muslim stance as follows:

“He has made his hard line against Muslims central to his campaign, and, even after claiming the Republican nomination and turning to a broader electorate, he has refused to back off from his call to temporarily ban Muslims from traveling to America.” — ‘After Orlando massacre, Donald Trump says it shows he is ‘right’ about terrorism’ (NYT on 12 June 2016)

7. The Mateen family had emigrated to the USA from Afghanistan.

8. A counter-terrorism expert interviewed by Fox News blamed Obama’s “political correctness” for the “jihadi” terrorism. Sebastian Gorka, chair of Military Theory at Marine Corps University, said:

“Maria, we need to stop using words like ‘shocking’. Nobody should be shocked. This is what they have been planning to do after Paris, after Brussels. Nobody should be surprised. Likewise, this isn’t to be called a tragedy. This isn’t an Amtrak train being derailed. This is part of the global jihadi strategy. It’s not an accident. It is war against America.”

Gorka urged the White House to stop with the political correctness when war is being waged against Uncle Sam, saying: “We need to destroy this enemy before more innocent people … are murdered on U.S. soil”.

9. “Federal investigators said they were looking into reports that he [Omar] recited prayers to Allah during the attack,” said a Los Angeles Times story.

10. This episode, which extracted the highest number of casualties in the USA’s history of mass shooting, has provoked a backlash against Muslims by the American public.

The nasty things being said in media feedback and in the social media about Muslims and Islam is par for the course. I don’t have to repeat them here.

The animosity and hostility from the conservative Christian demography who are Trump supporters is real.

11. The born again Christians of Jerusubang feel the same way about Muslims.

Malaysia’s evangelistas definitely share the negative sentiments about Islam as felt in the American Bible Belt and among the resurgent Christian right across Europe.

12. Hadi Awang’s assessment of the antagonism harboured by DAP is spot-on. The party is, after all, led by messianic Christians who carry their faith’s millennia-long baggage of the triumphalist Crusades.

Taqiyah puak evangelista

DAP the evangelical party is indeed anti-Islam.

But in order to pull wool over Malay eyes, the DAP’s balaci-balaci Melayu are doing their darndest to try and persuade readers to be accommodating of minority demands — such as conceding kalimah ‘Allah’ and avowing secularism.

These macai DAP want to convince Umno voters that the parti Melayu is “racist” (or extremist in religion), “hateful” and “despicable” and must be shunned.

clash_of_religions

So to avoid being labelled ‘racist, hateful and despicable’ like their party Umno, Malays are told to always toe the line of political correctness. They must be remember to be “nice” (read: self-hating Muslims) all the time, love the enemy of Islam and turn the other cheek.

To be perceived as nice and not a hater, Malays must strive to emulate the love-love-love mantra that’s loudly and noisily chanted by the Christians. This is what well-paid Melayu cybertrooopers are preaching in their pro-DAP blogs.

It is sad how some gullible and impressionable Malays are willing to subdue themselves and accept all the stereotypical ‘Taliban’ putdowns just to attain the approval of the fashionable Christians.

Why don’t Malays follow the teaching of their Holy Book, I wonder.

2_120

“The Jews and the Christians will never be pleased with you unless you follow their ways.”

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110 Comments Add your own

  • 1. tebing tinggi  |  June 13, 2016 at 10:03 am

    The killer name is Omar Mateen , so Islam is to be blamed ?.

    Reply
  • 2. Ayam  |  June 13, 2016 at 11:44 am

    Another Islam bashing campaign after Muhammad Ali was buried, why I’m not surprised with that.

    Reply
  • 3. Jade Emperor  |  June 13, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    There are bigots asserting their personal prejudices that makes people who do not understand Islam to loathe the religion. All Muslims suffer discrimination for the bigotry of a party of them.

    Reply
  • 4. Eugene  |  June 13, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    It doesn’t help when the killer is a Muslim because it gives the evangelistas ammunition to continue with their narrative.

    Whatever reasons he had – IS sympathiser or just infuriated seeing 2 men kiss – they are unacceptable reasons for this wanton killing. Christians will continue to speak from their righteous mound if more Muslims commit such acts. Things will change if Christians outdo Muslims in these insane acts of destruction.

    Gene.

    Reply
    • 5. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:26 pm

      re: “Things will change if Christians outdo Muslims in these insane acts of destruction.”

      Anders Breivik – the Norwegian mass shooter who gunned down close to 70 people – did not have his religion put under scrutiny or associated with his crime.

      Admittedly it doesn’t help if it’s true that Omar Mateen really did shout “Allahuakbar” (as claimed by some reports) when he carried out his shooting.

      The Malay Mail story url which I highlighted in my update above is, I suspect, the Christians’ tit-tor-tat over being called out for their jubilation at the recent Sarawak helicopter crash. So much for turning the other cheek.

      The present confrontation between Islam and Christianity is driven by the evangelicals rather than the established denomination Christians.

      Trump’s constituency in the Deep South are evangelical.

      In peninsula Malaysia – because we’re not a traditional Christian country – there is a disproportionately large ratio of born again Christians vs those who have already been generations in the faith.

      (Same phenomenon in Singapore, thus the birth of City Harvest and other new charismatic megachurches rather than having the oldies like Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans etc appealing to young converts).

      With the Umno swing to the PAS brand of Islam, and DAP’s headlong rush into evangelism, our religious conflict is bound to intensify.

      At the core is the DAP’s animosity and disdain for Islam/Muslims which no amount of love-love-love public relations can paper over.

      I do not believe that traditional Christians share the DAP mindset, and hence the rejection of DAP by the Dayak Christians in Sarawak’s 11th state election not too long ago.

      However traditional Christians in peninsula risk being radicalized as their congregations are shrinking in contrast to the fast and ever expanding evangelical movement.

      As you also know, Christians are not monolithic. But not enough attention has been paid to the differences and dissensions within Malaysian Christianity itself.

      The evangelistas are a deviant cult with over-weaning political ambitions. However it seems that the traditional Christians are just as overwhelmed by the evangelistas as MCA has been by the DAP.

      DAP evangelistas are very harmful and toxic to Chinese and Chinese Christians. What we’re looking at is a slow race (diaspora) suicide because for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction from the Muslims.

      Ten years ago, Hadi’s ‘hudud’ bill would never have gotten this far in Parliament.

      Reply
      • 6. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:38 pm

        So, Helen – what’s your stand on the Orlando massacre?

        Justified or not?

        The Muslims in Florida are expecting another backlash.

        And are you going to call the late Omar Mateen deluded, culpable or righteously justified (targetting a gay nightclub)?

        A simple “yes” or “no” would suffice.

        Reply
        • 7. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:20 pm

          re: “So, Helen – what’s your stand on the Orlando massacre? Justified or not?”

          What a nutty question.

          re: “The Muslims in Florida are expecting another backlash.”

          It’s possible that an unrelated bearded Sikh man wearing turban may get shot in revenge ‘cos some redneck gun toters don’t know the difference.

          re: “And are you going to call the late Omar Mateen deluded, culpable or righteously justified (targetting a gay nightclub)? A simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ would suffice.”

          You’re a nutter even asking this.

          Reply
          • 8. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:29 pm

            Really? So why avoid answering the questions?

            Reply
            • 9. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:33 pm

              Don’t wanna be a nut like you.

              Reply
              • 10. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:41 pm

                Taking the easy way out, are we?

                Where’s your sense of moral outrage?

                It’s simple enough to say that Omar Mateen was wrong in what he did. Full stop.

                Instead of resorting to meaningless sophistry (“free pass”).

                Reply
                • 11. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:49 pm

                  To indulge in outrage and self-righteous bashing of moral slackers, visit Life of Annie. Over there, the blogger whacks everybody (but defends Rosmah).

                  Reply
                  • 12. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:55 pm

                    You are still avoiding answering the questions.

                    Smokescreens and Teflon coatings won’t help!

                    Hahaha….

                    Reply
                    • 13. hazery  |  June 13, 2016 at 6:30 pm

                      Kineas

                      What? Do u mean jesus loves those sodomites? If u asked me the shooting wasnt justified.. no.. Those sodomites should be stoned, hang and burned. And then shot. Damn queer.

                    • 14. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:46 pm

                      ” Those sodomites should be stoned, hang and burned. ”

                      I would shoot you before anyone else, you sick little wank.

                    • 15. queer cravings and hazy minds  |  June 19, 2016 at 9:36 am

                      so which sodomites should be hanged, which one stoned, and which one burned? the full blown and gay, or half-f**ked and sorry, and the many other sorts?

                      what if the judge turns out to be a licentious womanizer? who is going to shoot him for his hypocritical presumptiousness?

                      just leave jesus out of your preoccupations.

              • 16. tehtarik  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:50 am

                Lets hope that none of your family members gets beheaded or shot by these god is great bastards.
                However, if that happened to happen, just treat it as god loves them more and leave you behind to enjoy your good karma.
                God is great!

                Reply
                • 17. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 7:14 am

                  tehtarik,

                  Just pray harder so you and your kids will never be placed in this situation;

                  http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2647862.html

                  Reply
                  • 18. tehtarik  |  June 14, 2016 at 8:27 am

                    Yup. pray for you as well. God is great! But Karma is greater.

                    Reply
                    • 19. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:21 am

                      Yup
                      So long as kamu sedar diri thts good. Reap what you sow.

                      …..A “reap what you sow” tweet from Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick that went out hours after approximately 50 people were killed at a Florida LGBT nightclub has been deleted amid backlash….

                      ….deleted amid backlash? See, where got fleedom to think even in US?

            • 20. wawe  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:48 am

              ywhy are you obsessed woth the answer. The answer is written all over the wall. it depends on what kind of answet you’d like to expect. no amunt of explaination suffices with your kind of ilk.

              Reply
        • 21. RINA  |  June 13, 2016 at 10:06 pm

          Kineas 1067

          http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/t/returning-soldiers-suffers-ptsd/

          Ini depa yang pi dok tembak, balik jadi mental.. just imagine the trauma faced by Afghans. (It was reported by the Russian paper late Omar ada mental issues).

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)

          Reply
        • 22. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:08 am

          Kineas 1067,

          Haiyaaa lu. Belum apa2 dah bole jawab yes and no? Thats why I advice you kasi celik luas sikit mata kamu.

          Noone now will never know if what he did is right or wrong. Ex wife was quoted as indicating he may have mental issues….

          Even President Bush pun suffered from mental issues, hallucinating Iraq manufacturing weapon of mass destructions.. tak pasai2 pi serang Iraq. World trade centre melted, tak pasai2 pi serang Afghanistan.

          Reply
      • 23. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:43 pm

        “Anders Breivik – the Norwegian mass shooter who gunned down close to 70 people – did not have his religion put under scrutiny or associated with his crime.”

        That’s because he didn’t shout out “In the name of Christ” before shooting the victims. And in all likelihood, he was probably an atheist or had secular beliefs, like most so called Christians in the West.Your logic is as flawed and as biased as usual.

        Muslims want Islamophobia to stop, then they should stop killing people in the name of their God and start taking responsibility for their actions, instead of constantly blaming everyone else for being anti Islam.

        And the teachings of Islam really needs to be scrutinised and clarified, there are so many violent verses in the Quran that it’s no wonder a radical element exists from that religion. Congrats to Trump for being brave enough to say what most lefties are too scared to say…

        Reply
        • 24. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:12 pm

          re: “instead of constantly blaming everyone else for being anti Islam”

          But the evangelical DAP really is.

          There have been a whole series of incidents where the non-Muslim opposition has kenakan our Islamic institutions/NGOs such as Jakim, Majlis Fatwa, JAIS, Tabung Haji (this one by the Protuns trying to provoke a run on the savings vis-a-vis 1MDB deal), Isma, the Muftis …

          The anti-Islam bent is undeniable.

          re: “And the teachings of Islam really needs to be scrutinised and clarified, there are so many violent verses in the Quran that it’s no wonder a radical element exists from that religion.”

          Are there? Which ones?

          Insofar as I’m aware, it is the Bible’s Old Testament that contains “violent verses”.

          And as for “a radical element exists from that religion”, a short history of the world easily proves that it is Christianity that left the trail of blood and genocide.

          You are aware how many native tribes in all the continents, bar Antarctica, have been destroyed by the Christian conquistadors, aren’t you?

          Reply
          • 25. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:46 pm

            And the Caliphate that spread from Constantinople to Jerusalem, Egypt and the shores of the Mediterranean was an aberration based on a message of “peace and love”?

            Talk about rewriting history!

            Reply
          • 26. tehtarik  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:54 am

            Any case of evangelists beheading the innocent tourist to Sabah?
            God is great my foot.

            Reply
          • 27. tehtarik  |  June 15, 2016 at 10:41 am

            If god is great religion is that great, when are you converting to it?
            Why still remain as ” Buddhist ” when god is great religion is so great?
            What Buddhism are you preaching when you are spewing hatred everyday?

            Reply
            • 28. Helen Ang  |  June 15, 2016 at 6:11 pm

              It is you who is daily baiting the Malays and denigrating Islam.

              It is you who is spitting venom every day at the Muslims and displaying your Islamophobia.

              I do not preach Buddhism.

              However you don’t stop shoving your hate in the face of the majority population, then the signals (as we witnessed at the recent PAS muktamar) will only grow stronger.

              A piece of friendly advice: Don’t provoke past the breaking point. Patience has its limit.

              Reply
      • 29. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:46 pm

        And to postulate a hypothesis – if Trump does become POTUS, will he change his tune and be all lovey-dovey with Islam and Muslims?

        In the US? In Muslim-majority countries?

        I’d go easy on the triumphalist comments (such as “slow race (diaspora) suicide”).

        Because the US is already operating on a short fuse, as it is.

        And I doubt that anyone sane would want to confront an angry US.

        Realpolitik 101.

        Reply
      • 30. Keris  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:58 pm

        “Admittedly it doesn’t help if it’s true that Omar Mateen really did shout “Allahuakbar” (as claimed by some reports) when he carried out his shooting.”

        When we call out, “Allahu Akbar (Allah is greater than anything),” we recall that the greatest power is Love (Ar-Rahmanir Rahim). As we call out “Allahu Akbar” we see all our circumstances, challenges, doubts, and difficulties in the greater perspective of Allah’s Benign Sovereignty (Al-Malikul Karim), which is ultimately the Sovereignty of Love.

        Omar Mateen and killers such as him have no right to call out “Allahu Akbar” as they descend into their perverse brutalities. Will such damning hatred ever wipe out the sins of homosexualism? Prophet Lot depended not on his own power to escape the perversions of Sodom. It was the Lord Almighty who destroyed the community. No creature can claim to act on behalf of the judgement of the Lord.

        “The people of Lot rejected the messengers. Behold, their brother Lot said to them: “Will ye not fear? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. So fear Allah and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds. Of all the creatures in the world, will you approach males, and leave alone those whom Allah has created for you to be your wives? Nay, you are a people transgressing!”
        They said: “If you desist not, O Lot! you will surely be disposed of!” He answered: “I do detest your doings.”
        (Quran, 26: v.160-168)

        “Lot called out: “O my Lord! help me against people who practice such mischief!” ” (Quran, 29: v.30)

        “(The Angels) said: “O Lot! We are messengers from your Lord! By no means shall they reach you! Now travel with your family while a part of the night still remains, and let not any of you look back: but your wife (will remain behind): To her will happen what happens to the people. Morning is their time appointed: Is not the morning nigh?” (Quran, Hud: v.81)

        “But the (mighty) Blast overtook them before morning, And We turned (Sodom and Gomorrah) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay. Behold! in this are Signs for those who understand. And the (cities were) right on the highway.” (Quran, al-Hijr: v.73-76)
        ——

        Abu Hurairah (r.a.) reported:
        I heard Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) saying, “When Allah created the creatures, He wrote in the Book, which is with Him over His Throne: ‘Verily, My Mercy prevails over My Wrath’.”
        [recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

        Allah’s forgiveness of our human acts of transgression comes from His Loving Kindness over us all, while His punishments stem from the Law of Justice that He has decreed upon His creation.

        Omar Mateen is a creature of the Creator Lord; he had been bestowed with a conscience but he chose to act despicably. He has no right to punish people with gay tendencies by murdering fifty of them and wounding many others. Omar Mateen will face the consequences of his hateful behaviour in the court of the Most Just and Almighty. Allahu Akbar!

        Reply
    • 31. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:09 pm

      Gene.
      …Christians will continue to speak from their righteous mound if more Muslims commit such acts…

      ” Formerly known as FHAAHD” kata dia apply common sense, cuba you use yours bagi nampak cerdik macam dia sikit?

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

      Reply
  • 32. errol  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    Right, kill some kafir and say people discriminate against you. Always in a denial mode after commiting a crime. Always blaming others for the criimes that you commit. Is that the true path to paradise?

    Reply
    • 33. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:58 pm

      errol,

      There is the reality of the violence that happened in Florida and the issue of our tense interfaith relations in Malaysia.

      Over there is over there.

      At the same time, the Muslim-Christian dynamics are being played out here in our backyard.

      Looking at the spheres of friction in Malaysia, there is:

      (1) Between Hindus and Muslims over conversion viz. child custody battles, “bodysnatching” for burial and IC categorization of religion (i.e. Indians who want to be Hindus rather than classed as Muslims)

      (2) Between Taoists and Muslims over the location of shrines, religious festivals that are smoky and noisy, the placement of altars in domestic-public space (corridors of low-cost flats)

      (3) Between Buddhists and Muslims … not much locally but marred by the spillover in treatment of Rohingya by Burmese Muslims and of Malays in southern Thailand by Thai Buddhists

      (4) Between Christians and Muslims — very acute! You can’t get a bigger dispute than fighting over ownership of the name of God Himself.

      In the global backdrop, there is the Clash of Civilizations and Christian countries bombing Muslim countries back to the 19th century, and Muslim acts of terrorism and bombing.

      Buddhist will shrink in absolute numbers as we go into the year 2050 whereas the Christian population will close to double in the same time frame.

      Buddhists are not expanding through the building of grand temples whereas the mega churches are springing up everywhere. The fairly new (completed 2013) Calvary Church in Bukit Jalil, KL is the biggest church complex in Southeast Asia.

      Buddhists and Hindus are not challenging Umno for federal power. It is the DAP evangelistas who harbour the hope that Putrajaya will ubah (change hands).

      So Event X (Orlando shooting) or Event Y or Z may happen overseas but we in Malaysia are going to react according to our religious fault lines.

      It must be pointed out that the evangelistas are the ones upping the ante in the fallout (info and ideological war) of such events.

      I’m not absolving or giving Omar Mateen a free pass. However we can’t escape from the fact that the evangelistas are reacting in a similar manner as the Christian (white) supremacists in the USA.

      I suppose that the Christians – like those operating the Malay Mail – will counter that some Malay-Muslims are reacting with intolerance like Taliban.

      For the sake of Malaysia’s other religious minorities (Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Sikhs, etc), the general public must be made to understand that the Clash of Civilizations is between Christianity and Islam so that the DAP does not succeed in dragging Buddhist Chinese and Indian Hindus into their religio-political vendetta.

      Reply
      • 34. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:27 pm

        You are “not absolving or giving Omar Mateen a free pass?”?

        How touching. Maybe you even mean it too.

        So, is what the late Omar Mateen perpetrated justified?

        Was he acting in accordance with the tenets and commands of his faith?

        His father, according to news reports, said that the attack “has nothing to do with religion”.

        Mir Seddique, Omar’s father, “told NBC News he believed his son was provoked into carrying out the attack after seeing two men kissing in Miami a few months ago” (AFP, Reuters, NYT).

        “We are saying we are apologising for the whole incident. We weren’t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country”.

        The PM has already expressed his condolences to the US over the tragedy. As have many world leaders.

        I am sure that the US will track down and punish those responsible for “turning” Omar Mateen (if the reports about him pledging allegiance to ISIS are found to be true). It may take time, but it will get there.

        Like it did with Osama Bin Laden.

        The question is who will the US include on the “right side”? It’s the whole “with us or against us?” question.

        Reply
        • 35. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:42 pm

          Chinese Buddhists and Indian Hindus are making a mistake to side with the DAP evangelistas.

          We’re a Muslim country and Islam is the status quo.

          The DAP evangelistas are promoting a regime change and overturning the old order. The Malays won’t stand for it and nor will the Muslims allow it to happen.

          Choosing to be with the DAP evangelistas against Umno-PAS is self-destructive. Like I said, the diaspora is picking a slow form of race suicide.

          Reply
          • 36. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:52 pm

            “We are a Muslim country and Islam is the status quo”.

            So too is Indonesia, Brunei and much of the Middle East.

            Absolutely.

            But it is also a fact of life that when countries are called on to “choose sides”, there are no “consolation prizes” for those who choose wrong.

            It’s as simple as that.

            Reply
            • 37. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 4:00 pm

              Are Chinese (immigrant minority race) or Christians aiming to grab power in Indonesia, Brunei or the Middle East?

              Reply
              • 38. Kineas1067  |  June 13, 2016 at 4:57 pm

                Hahaha….haven’t heard of “soft power”?

                Which the ‘gene pool’ is getting increasingly adept at deploying.

                Who needs to ‘grab power’ when a defacto fait accompli already exists in the region (reference the South China Sea, for starters)?

                It’s a ‘kafir regime’ that is leading the pushback. While other countries implicitly cheer it on.

                Ditto in the Middle East.

                If the ‘gene pool’ and the ‘kafir regime’ cut a deal over the heads of everyone else, the question of ‘grabbing power’ becomes academic.

                Realpolitik 101.

                Hahaha…..

                Reply
                • 39. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 5:46 pm

                  re: “a de facto fait accompli already exists in the region (reference the South China Sea, for starters)”

                  Not a development that is giving Wisma Putra a warm fuzzy feeling, is it?

                  re: “If the ‘gene pool’ and the ‘kafir regime’ cut a deal over the heads of everyone else”

                  Will you be more explicit as to which kafir regime you’re referring to?

                  Reply
                  • 40. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:55 pm

                    Why not address that question – about the #1 kafir regime – to IS/ISIL/ISIS/Daesh?

                    Maybe Baghdadi and his coterie will be able to quote chapter and verse….

                    As for Wisma Putra, it doesn’t have much of a choice, does it?

                    I believe that the Chinese Ambassador to Malaysia just wrote an op-ed piece about the South China Sea issue.

                    You might want to peruse that at leisure.

                    Reply
            • 41. RINA  |  June 13, 2016 at 4:46 pm

              …..The Mateen family had emigrated to the USA from Afghanistan….

              Excuse me Kineas 1067, agak kamu apa dalam otak Bush dan Blair bila dengaq kabar pasai Orlando shooting ni?

              Why must these people link the late shooter to “Islam” and not to Afganistan and Guatamelon?

              Hannah tak bole tidoq? Kalau dia berjiwa murni sejak Afghanistan war, by now badab dia sure dah kurus kering tinggal tulang!

              Reply
          • 42. drinho  |  June 13, 2016 at 4:33 pm

            re: We’re a Muslim country and Islam is the status quo.

            How you arrive at that conclusion? Did you mean “Muslim majority country’? Bear in mind, Sabah and Sarawak have no religion.

            Read this link: http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/constitutional_law/is_malaysia_an_islamic_state_.html

            Reply
            • 43. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 5:52 pm

              (1) I mean we’re a Muslim country, as I stated earlier and am reiterating for your benefit.

              (2) State religion of Sabah is Islam. They amended their constitution, in the 1970s if I’m not mistaken. You can check.

              (3) I can agree that our Alliance founding fathers had it in mind to make Malaya a secular state, but it didn’t happen as they planned. The Reid Commission found that Article 3 “religion of the Federation” couldn’t square with pronouncement of secular state.

              Reply
              • 44. drinho  |  June 13, 2016 at 6:23 pm

                re: I mean we’re a Muslim country…

                What defines Muslim country? Population? Hudud? Or because of a single article in the Fed Con?

                re: State religion of Sabah is Islam.

                I stand corrected. Sabah in 1973 amended the state constitution. Islam is state religion.

                Reply
                • 45. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 7:02 pm

                  Not just Article 3(1) alone. There are Articles 11, 37(1) and 121(1A) as well as elements of the Ninth Schedule. Also the individual state laws on Islam. The syariah courts, the mufti and kadi’s office.

                  The YDP’s oath of office to uphold Islam, monarchy who are heads of Islam, Islamic symbols on the royal regalia, state crests, national emblem, various state official Islamic mottos in Jawi, the state muftis, the state Islamic departments, the various Islamic agencies, our watikah pemasyhuran kemerdekaan which starts off with salutations to Allah and blessings upon the Prophet and his companions

                  This Islamism is ingrained in practically everything of note in our country (written into Malaysia’s DNA, so to speak).

                  The position of Islam by law is actually very strong. Only that so far the Malays under Umno-tidak-apa have not fully exerted their rights.

                  But with the provocation by pushy evangelistas, the Muslims beginning to do just that, i.e. hudud and peripheral stuff like green trolleys, dress code, etc.

                  Read this too by Dr Malik Munip @ https://helenang.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/the-1948-federation-of-malaya-agreement/

                  to understand the continuity of Islamic governance and how the Malay and Islam special position has always been coded in our law and legal traditions.

                  Reply
                  • 46. drinho  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:22 am

                    re: Article 3(1) etc etc, YDP’s oath of office to uphold Islam, monarchy who are heads of Islam ……………

                    So all the above make Msia a Muslim country? If that is so, then what we call nations like Brunei, Arab etc that have extensive Islamic applications in much more aspects than Msia?

                    I would quote what the late Nik Aziz said:

                    “You can talk all you want. You can declare a piece of wood to be gold, or a wheelbarrow as a Mercedez, but in reality, nothing has changed.

                    For us, an Islamic country is one which is governed according to the tenets of the Quran and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammed). Malaysia is a secular State. If the present Malaysia is already an Islamic state, then what do you call the state ruled by Prophet Muhammed and his friends?”

                    Again, there is no standard definition on what constitute an Islamic state or Muslim country. Many benchmarks can be used. Some are substantial, e.g. overwhelming Muslim population 90% & above, hudud enforcement, ruled by ulamak etc. Some are ceremonial, e.g. apparently head of Islam and having Islamic departments but powers are limited. Latest example is the passing of NSC Bill without getting royal assent because the Fed Con was amended whereby if no royal assent was given by Agong after expiry of 30 days, Agong is deemed to have given assent.

                    Best way is to make comparison with Brunei, Saudi etc. We are way far behind in terms of applying Islamic tenets in the administration of Msia. Moreover, Islam cannot have more rights than what the Fed Con allows as the former derives its position from the latter.

                    Reply
                    • 47. Helen Ang  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:42 am

                      re: “Article 3(1) etc etc, YDP’s oath of office to uphold Islam, monarchy who are heads of Islam …” / “So all the above make Msia a Muslim country?”

                      Does all of the above make Malaysia a secular country?

                      re: “If that is so, then what we call nations like Brunei, Arab etc that have extensive Islamic applications in much more aspects than Msia?”

                      Islamic state.

                      re: “I would quote what the late Nik Aziz said: ‘You can talk all you want. You can declare a piece of wood to be gold, or a wheelbarrow as a Mercedez, but in reality, nothing has changed’.”

                      Absolutely. You can talk all you want but you can’t make Malaysia secular.

                      re: “For us, an Islamic country is one which is governed according to the tenets of the Quran and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammed). Malaysia is a secular State.”

                      Malaysia is a Muslim country (I repeat).

                      re: “If the present Malaysia is already an Islamic state, then what do you call the state ruled by Prophet Muhammed and his friends?”

                      Caliphate?

                      re: “Again, there is no standard definition on what constitute an Islamic state or Muslim country.”

                      PAS and the government (Jakim, I believe) under Hadi and Tun in the 2000s had both come up with their blueprint of what is an Islamic state.

                      re: “Many benchmarks can be used.”

                      Correct. By the same token, Malaysia fails to meet the benchmark for a secular state.

                      re: “Some are substantial, e.g. overwhelming Muslim population 90% & above”

                      If we had a 90 percent Muslim population, you and I would not be having this debate. It’d be a fait accompli.

                      re: “hudud enforcement”

                      Getting there …

                      re: “ruled by ulamak etc”

                      Watch transformasi Umno.

                      re: “Some are ceremonial, e.g. apparently head of Islam and having Islamic departments but powers are limited.”

                      Sultan of Selangor had enough power to block Wan Azizah from becoming Menteri Besar. Likewise rulers of Perlis and Terengganu were powerful enough to tak berkenan Umno’s MB nominee.

                      re: “Latest example is the passing of NSC Bill without getting royal assent because the Fed Con was amended whereby if no royal assent was given by Agong after expiry of 30 days, Agong is deemed to have given assent.”

                      We must thank Tun Mahahtir for enabling the PM’s powers.

                      re: “Best way is to make comparison with Brunei, Saudi etc.”

                      Already said. Brunei, Saudi etc are Islamic state. Malaysia is a Muslim country. You seem eager to push us into becoming an Islamic state.

                      re: “We are way far behind in terms of applying Islamic tenets in the administration of Msia.”

                      I have never claimed that we’re an Islamic state. I said Malaysia is a Muslim country.

                      You claim Malaysia is a secular country. So the point of contention is am I right (Muslim country) or are your right (secular state)?

                      re: “Moreover, Islam cannot have more rights than what the Fed Con allows as the former derives its position from the latter.”

                      Neither can you take away Islam’s rights to make Malaysia a secular country were religion is separated from the state, and where no one particular religion has a higher status than others.

                      Since Islam is embedded in our government and Islam is privileged above all other religions, then it’s obvious that Malaysia is not secular.

                    • 48. drinho  |  June 14, 2016 at 11:09 am

                      re: Malaysia is a Muslim country (I repeat).

                      So what is a Muslim country then? I asked previously. You replied things like Fed Con articles, YDP’s oath of office to uphold Islam, monarchy who are heads of Islam etc etc. Any literature on that? Of you just pick up some Islamic elements and conveniently claim Msia is a Muslim country.

                      re: secular or Muslim state

                      Of course Msia is not 100% secular or 100% Muslim state. However, we can deduce which elements are more prevalent. Consider questions below:-

                      1. What is the highest law?
                      2. In relation to positions of Islam, from where such position is derived from? The Quran or a piece of written law that can be amended?
                      3. The legality of unIslamic matters eg. non-Islamic religions, pork, alcohol, interest banking, gambling outlets etc.

                      Msia is a hybrid of both. I would say the elements of secularism are more prevalent than Islam. Any Islamic laws must be passed by Parliament or state assemblies. However, Parliament/state assemblies may pass any laws even if they contradict Islamic tenets.

                      Do you agree that Msia is more secular than Islamic?

                      re: Sultan of Selangor had enough power to block Wan Azizah from becoming Menteri Besar. Likewise rulers of Perlis and Terengganu were powerful enough to tak berkenan Umno’s MB nominee.

                      I didn’t study the state constitution of the respective states. However, we can learn from Tun M. Amend the Fed Con. Just like NSC bill, if Agong didn’t give royal assent within 30 days, a bill is deemed assented thereafter. The same can be done. Like submit name of MB candidate. Especially in states where ruling party has 2/3 majority. Tun M had no qualm to amend the Fed Con in 1983. Najib had no qualm to bulldoze the NSC Bill against the Agong.

                    • 49. Helen Ang  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:19 pm

                      re: “Any literature on that? Of you just pick up some Islamic elements and conveniently claim Msia is a Muslim country.”

                      There is academic literature on what makes a state secular. Malaysia does not tick the boxes on criteria for secularism. See, https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/secularism-and-how-does-msia-compare-to-the-turkish-model/

                      re: “What is the highest law?”

                      The federal constitution. And in the entire FedCon document, there is no mention of the word “secular”.

                      re: “In relation to positions of Islam, from where such position is derived from?”

                      Islam is enshrined in Article 3 after Article 1 which deals with our country name and territories, and Article 2 which deals with admission of new territories.

                      It’s like a Malaysian birth cert — (1) our name (2) who we are, i.e. nama mak bapak/keturunan, and (3) religion.

                      Coming in at Article 3 shows how important Islam is. Not other religion is mentioned by name in our FedCon.

                      re: “The legality of unIslamic matters eg. non-Islamic religions, pork, alcohol, interest banking, gambling outlets etc.”

                      Halal certification is legislated. You can’t built a casino. Nor can you open a new 5-D gambling.

                      re: “Do you agree that Msia is more secular than Islamic?”

                      I disagree with you that Malaysia is a secular country.

                      You cannot disagree with me that Malaysia is a Muslim country. You can only argue on the degree we’re Islam or falling short of the Islam of the Saudis.

                    • 50. drinho  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:54 pm

                      Getting more interesting. I am no expert in Fed Con.

                      re: https://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/secularism-and-how-does-msia-compare-to-the-turkish-model/

                      Agree with the definition of secularism therein. Hence I say Msia is not 100% secular or 100% Islamic. More of a hybrid. Next question is: which element is more prevalent than the other.

                      re: Islam is enshrined in Article 3 after Article 1 which deals with our country name and territories, and Article 2 which deals with admission of new territories.

                      Correct. But did you overlook Article 3(4): Nothing in this Article derogates from any other provision of this Constitution?

                      It basically means that despite Islam being religion of the Federation under Art 3(1), Islam does not derogates/detracts/disparage other Articles in the Fed Con. Eg. hudud vis-a-vis Art. 8 on equality. One of the Islam components, Hudud contravenes Art. 8 and cannot be enforced unless Art. 8 is amended to allow punishment discrimination between Muslims and non-Muslims.

                      No doubt Islam is provided in Art. 3. Does it mean Art 3 is more superior or prevails over other Articles that were arranged later than it, i.e. Art. 4 onwards?

                      re: Halal certification is legislated. You can’t built a casino. Nor can you open a new 5-D gambling.

                      You can’t because the government is not issuing you the license. It could be unIslamic but not unconstitutional. Why no closure of existing casino and gambling outlets despite contravening Islam? Clearly because they are legitimate. They can contravene Islam but not contravene the law.

                      re: I disagree with you that Malaysia is a secular country.

                      That was not my question. My question was: Do you agree that Msia is MORE SECULAR THAN ISLAMIC?

                      re: You can only argue on the degree we’re Islam or falling short of the Islam of the Saudis.

                      Looking at Msia per se without comparing with Saudi etc, I reiterate that Msia is hybrid but with more secularism than Islamic.

                    • 51. Helen Ang  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:01 pm

                      I’ve never claimed that Malaysia is an Islamic state.

                      I said Malaysia is a Muslim country. We’re not – for example, say – a Christian country.

                      If anyone were to try and make Malaysia a Christian country…

                    • 52. ahmadalikarim  |  June 18, 2016 at 11:32 pm

                      re: “Agree with the definition of secularism therein. Hence I say Msia is not 100% secular or 100% Islamic. More of a hybrid. Next question is: which element is more prevalent than the other.”

                      Malaysia is an Islamic country as written in Article 3(1) of our Federal Constitution (FC). Hence, the FC as the Supreme Law of the Federation as written in the Article 4 has define Malaysia as an Islamic country; the same as a person reciting the Syahadah, declaring himself as a Muslim. The fact that Malaysia is an Islamic country automatically denies the claims that said Malaysia is a secular state; since secularism as defined by George Jacob Holyoake in his book, “The Principles of Secularism” means separating government and religion. That means the government cannot have anything to do with religion, which is the opposite in the case of Malaysia; e.g. the oath of the YDPA, Syariah Courts, religious authorities, building mosques etc. In fact, the word Islam cannot be mentioned in our FC if Malaysia is a secular state. So, there cannot be a hybrid of the two.

                      re: “Correct. But did you overlook Article 3(4): Nothing in this Article derogates from any other provision of this Constitution?”

                      To define Article 3(4), please read the ruling of the case of “ZI Publications Sdn Bhd and Anor v Kerajaan Negeri Selangor”. The judge, Tan Sri Md Raus Sharif said:
                      “Thus, in the present case, we are of the view that Article 10 of the Federal Constitution must be read in particular with Articles 3(1), 11, 74(2) and 121. Article 3(1) declares Islam as the religion of the Federation.”
                      It is also said in the judgement, Article 3(1) is placed in the Part 1 of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia, and other Articles of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia must be read harmoniously with Article 3(1) of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia, which means must be subjected to Article 3(1) of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia. Although the Article does not derogate from any other provision of the Constitution as said in Article 3(4) of the Federal Constituion of Malaysia, but other Articles of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia must be subjected to Article 3(1) of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia.

                      re: “Does it mean Art 3 is more superior or prevails over other Articles that were arranged later than it, i.e. Art. 4 onwards?”

                      Yes. All articles in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia must be read harmoniously and must be subjected to Articles 3(1), 11, 74(2), and 121 as ruled by Tan Sri Md Raus Sharif in the above case.

                      re: “You can’t because the government is not issuing you the license. It could be unIslamic but not unconstitutional. Why no closure of existing casino and gambling outlets despite contravening Islam? Clearly because they are legitimate. They can contravene Islam but not contravene the law.”

                      Malaysia is an Islamic country but we are not fully using the Islamic laws. Anyway, casinos and gambling outlets are illegal for the Muslims by our laws.

                      re: “That was not my question. My question was: Do you agree that Msia is MORE SECULAR THAN ISLAMIC?”

                      It is impossible for a country to be more Secular than Islamic or than any other religions because the state of secular defies religion. If Malaysia is a secular state, the word Islam cannot be mentioned in our FC, PAS will be unconstitutional for using word Islam in its name. In the USA, their court ruled that a cross sculpture cannot be placed on a memorial park that belonged to the government because the US is a secular state.

                    • 53. HY  |  June 19, 2016 at 9:57 am

                      what if msia more islamic? I dun see much umno malay n supporters push for hudud? r they fake muslim kah?

                    • 54. ahmadalikarim  |  June 19, 2016 at 4:08 pm

                      Dear HY,
                      Are you saying that the Christian DAP leaders who like to lie, spin and calling other people names are fake Christians? I still call them Christians because even though they do not follow the true teachings of Chrisitan, they still believe in the Christian God. I do not call Wan Azizah who does not support Hudud to be implemented in Malaysia a fake Muslim. Do you mean that Muslim PKR and PAN leaders are all fake Muslims? Mahathir and Marina too?

          • 55. tehtarik  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:01 am

            So? This is a constituional monarchy country. We vote whoever we feel comfortable. Not voting umno doesnt mean we are anti islam.
            Not voting pas doesnt mean we are anti melayu.
            Got it, bitch?

            Reply
        • 56. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 7:26 am

          I am sure that the US will track down and punish those responsible for “turning” Omar Mateen….

          Track down tup tup found he was greatly influenced by Bush and Blair weapon of mass destruction killing spree, hang ingat depa akan punish these two? Answer with a simple “yes” or “no” ?

          Reply
          • 57. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:36 pm

            Hahaha, you wish.

            Omar Mateen had freedom of choice. Something that he denied his victims.

            Did that (note the past tense) make him a “good” Muslim or a “bad” Muslim?

            Answer with a simple “yes” or “no”…hahaha.

            Btw, Omar Mateen was born in the US.

            His parents migrated from Afghanistan. Why did they choose the US when there are any number of Islamic/Muslim countries to choose from?

            Reply
            • 58. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 4:55 pm

              Kineas 1067

              …..Omar Mateen had freedom of choice. Something that he denied his victims….

              Kalau gitu, apa macam? What about Bush and Blair? Will they catch the two? Yes or no?

              Owh ye ke the late Omar was born in US? Am pretty sure you too are not born in China, tapi just look at you, whatever Chinese Ambassador to Malaysia has to write about South China Sea issue kamu gedik dan excited semacam?

              Reply
              • 59. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:54 pm

                And that is the sum total of your “rebuttal”?

                Sad…

                Bush and Blair? I am sure that Malaysia, if it so inclined, could lodge a criminal case against them. Maybe push for Interpol Red Notices? Why not ask Wisma Putra to take the initiative?

                Or, if that doesn’t fly, convene an international enquiry tribunal in KL to try Messrs Bush and Blair for alleged “war crimes”. I am sure that there will be distinguished (Malaysian) lawyers who are willing to act as pro bono prosecutors.

                Go give it a whirl, lah. Nothing to lose?

                As for the Chinese Ambassador to Malaysia, he is able to put across his views as and when he wants. And there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Unless you want to go and picket in front of the Chinese Embassy in KL?

                Hahaha…..

                Reply
  • 60. 42ruth  |  June 13, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    Spot on saw that revolting malay mail piece, at every turn they are set on striking Muslims.
    After reading that I came a cross a piece by Gary Younge in the Guardian and he writes:-
    “Indeed, just hours after the attack Texas’s lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, seemed to suggest that the victims were responsible for their own deaths: “Do not be deceived,” he tweeted, citing Galatians chapter 6 verse 7. “God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.”

    Now you are not going to have the malaymail carrying that.

    As an aside I wonder whether anyone noticed that the Saturday edition of the JeruStar made no mention about Muhammed Ali’s funeral that took place a day before.

    The whole world was following the funeral but no mention the next day in the JeruStar – speaks volumes about them.

    Reply
  • 64. akarimomar  |  June 13, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    Tak boleh Helen. Cannot. Nanti “mahkluk yang tidak pernah MALAM” marah … contoh … https://akarimomar.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/apakah-kini-berpesan-sesama-sendiri-ingatkan-firman-allah-sudah-tidak-boleh-lagi/

    Reply
  • 65. Mulan  |  June 13, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    Now see who else is also to blame
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/aclu-lawyers-blame-christian-right-gop-for-orlando-terrorist-attack/article/2593679

    “Christian conservatives are responsible for the mass shooting at a gay bar in Orlando because they “created this anti-queer climate,” according to American Civil Liberties Union attorneys.

    “You know what is gross — your thoughts and prayers and Islamophobia after you created this anti-queer climate,” ACLU staff attorney Chase Strangio tweeted on Sunday morning.”

    “But Strangio — who “spend[s his] life fighting Christian homophobia while being loved & supported by [his] Muslim family” — and his colleagues connected the shooting back to Christians and Republican politicians who oppose gay marriage. “The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the last six months and people blaming Islam for this,” Strangio tweeted. “No.”

    Reply
  • 66. ahmadalikarim  |  June 13, 2016 at 6:06 pm

    Dear Aunty Helen,
    When a Muslim committed such crime, certain people will always blame it on Islam as a whole. But when an ‘Orang Putih’ did the same thing, for example the Sandy Hook Elemantary School mass killing incident, they do not blame it on Adam Lanza’s religion.
    Just because Omar Mateen may shouted “Allahuakbar” as he killed the victims, it doesn’t mean that he is doing the right thing as a Muslim. There are a lot of Muslims who did a lot of crazy things which are against Islam but claims that they are doing the right thing for Islam such as Ani Zonneveld, Aminah Wadud, Irshad Manji, terrorists like Zulkifli Abdhir and others. Even PAN leaders who are taking orders from DAP’s Lim Kit Siang who condemned Verse 120 of Surah Al-Baqarah as racist, said that they are the fighter of Islam and is more Islamic than PAS.
    I feel that the Sandy Hook killing is crueler, because Adam Lanza killed 26 people including 20 school children younger than I am, who cannot even protect themselves during such situation. But since he is not a Muslim, people do not talk about his religion.

    Reply
    • 67. FOR FREEDOM!!!  |  June 13, 2016 at 6:34 pm

      Whatever, kid. Just don’t grow up to be like Omar Mateen or Helen Ang

      Reply
      • 68. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 7:06 pm

        You should emigrate to Tasmania. Maybe over there you can mature into an adult.

        In Malaysia it’s clear that you’re unable to transcend your constrictive hatred of Islam and thus suffering from arrested development.

        Reply
        • 69. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:48 pm

          “constrictive”? Or did you mean “constructive”?

          Is Omar Mateen not a good role model and exemplar for Islam?

          Instead of dialogue, he opted for the gun.

          With Blair and Bush nowhere in sight.

          Elsewhere it’s known as ‘freedom of speech’.

          Hatred of Islam or dajjals or evangelistas – an equal opportunities cornucopia.

          Reply
    • 70. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:42 pm

      “But since he is not a Muslim, people do not talk about his religion.”

      That’s because most Westerners are intelligent enough to leave the fairy tales behind and have moved on using reason and common sense. They may be called Christians as that’s the faith they have been born into but most of them hold secular views. Muslims on the other hand allow their religion to define who they are.

      Reply
      • 71. Helen Ang  |  June 13, 2016 at 10:04 pm

        re: “Muslims on the other hand allow their religion to define who they are.”

        Cina DAP allow their anger and resentment to define who they are.

        The ABU movement is only all about hating Umno.

        Its campaign does not ask what good policies the oppo is planning to introduce or in what way Pakatan governance will be better than the BN’s.

        All ABU does is merely to harness hatred of Umno.

        And the “secular” voter in Temerloh uses what “reason and common sense” to pick PAS’s conservative Nasrudin Hassan et Tantawi over Umno’s moderate Saifuddin Abdullah, pray tell?

        Reply
    • 72. Jamie  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:45 pm

      the so called ‘allahuakbar’ battle cry is still being investigated btw. Apparently Donald Trump copy pasted the statement from a not quite reliable source *read: another person’s tweet, not from a news channel/ journalist*

      also don’t you think it’s so easy to implicate Muslim these days? All you need to do is yell allahuakbar before doing something bad, and voila! See that Muslim doing that crazy thing again, they are so evil and so violent blah blah blah

      Reply
  • 73. IT.Scheiss  |  June 13, 2016 at 6:33 pm

    An Iranian who said he is a Zoroastran said that many people use their religion to justify their prejudices and he is right.

    More details are emerging about the character of Omar Mateen.

    Russia Today reports:-

    “The ex-wife of Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen said he repeatedly abused her, was emotionally unstable and displayed signs of bipolar disorder. She added that he sometimes expressed anger towards gay people.”

    “Sitora YuSufi was speaking to media next to her home in Colorado on Sunday. She revealed that she met Mateen via an online dating service and moved to Florida to marry him in 2009. Their marriage lasted just four months.

    “At the beginning he was a normal [human] being that cared about family, loved to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I saw his instability,” YuSufi said. “I saw that he was bipolar and he would get mad out of nowhere. That’s when I started worrying about my safety.”

    https://www.rt.com/usa/346456-orlando-shooter-wife-abuse/

    And in another Russia Today article:-

    “The Orlando nightclub gunman, 29-year-old US citizen Omar Mateen, who voiced his allegiance to Islamic State, was able to legally purchase an entire arsenal of guns and perpetrate the massacre despite several FBI interrogations over alleged links to terror suspects.”

    “ISIS-inspired attack

    “Following the deadly shooting spree in Orlando, Florida, local FBI chief Ron Hopper acknowledged that New York-born US citizen Mateen had professed his Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) allegiance during a 911 call he made from the nightclub at the time of the attack.

    “The IS propaganda machine was also quick to claim responsibility for the mass shooting by distributing a message via Amaq News that the atrocity was “carried out by an Islamic State fighter.”

    https://www.rt.com/usa/346438-orlando-massacre-citizen-isis-fbi/

    Omar Maleen fits in well with one who uses his religion to justify his prejudices and he is an unstable person.

    Also, the U.S. imperialists have backed IS to serve their geo-strategic interests in the Middle East and now innocent Americans suffer as a result.

    However, for those who are unaware of this or who also use their religion to justify their prejudices, these killings by Omar will very likely result in intensified hatred between Muslims and Christians in the US and around the world, including in Malaysia and it does not help when local media and online commentors fan the flames.

    Kudos to Russia Today for trying to diffuse the tensions in their articles but how often do our local media cite Russia Today.

    In Singapore, you can get Russia Today as one of the choices on cable TV but in Malaysia you mostly get British and American trash.

    Reply
    • 74. Lousy.Engineer  |  June 13, 2016 at 7:59 pm

      Barring religion angle of reporting, I think the US gov seriously need think about gun control among their citizens, period. To an outsider like me, the country seems to be heavily addicted to guns and weapons . I once walked into a Walmart somewhere in CO and found a small section actually selling guns! However you’ll find a lot of Americans are actually against this sort of regulation, citing constitutional right. Some of them collect guns like we’re collecting coins or stamps.

      Reply
      • 75. IT.Scheiss  |  June 14, 2016 at 7:55 am

        Yes. Many Americans are against gun control and this is because one of the founding principles of the US or one of the early principles was that the people have the right to be armed in case the government turns upon them.

        Thus many libertarian-minded Americans and also far-left organisations in the US oppose gun control, despite the level of gun crime there.

        The libertarians (right wing anarchists) adopt the attitude that it is better put up with the level of gun crime and be able to defend themselves against government intrusion and dominance.

        The far-left on the other hand believe that an armed populace will be more easily able to rise up against the government.

        However, despite all their arms, including military-class automatic weapons, the American people cannot stop their homes from being foreclosed, their jobs being shipped overseas to lower wage countries, their wages being stagnant since the 1970s despite rising inflation and living costs, against crippling student loan debt.

        For me, it’s their choice in their own country. Just don’t impose their values on others such as us in Malaysia.

        Reply
        • 76. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 4:42 pm

          Well, in the “land of the free and home of the brave”, Microsoft has announced that it is buying LinkedIn for US$26.2 billion.

          The EU, especially France, is worried about the soft power” being exercised globally by the US tech giants (Apple, Amazon.com, Facebook, Google and Microsoft).

          So, what values are you talking about? What choices?

          Are we about to ban Apple products, Facebook, Twitter, Android and Microsoft in Malaysia because we are being culturally dominated and exposed to foreign mores?

          Pseudo-intellectuals can criticise the US until they are blue in the face, but they can’t wean themselves off American products.

          Which is why Helen chose to avoid answering the question as to which country is the “#1 kafir regime”…..

          Reply
          • 77. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 5:06 pm

            Kineas 1067,

            …Pseudo-intellectuals can criticise the US until they are blue in the face, but they can’t wean themselves off American products…

            Haiyaaa apa you dok mengapu sini Kineas 1067?

            http://www.muslimheritage.com/article/muslim-founders-mathematics

            Reply
            • 78. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 10:02 pm

              And the Muslims who have won Nobel Prizes?

              Or Pulitzer Prizes?

              Drum roll please…..

              Oh, btw, are you still chuffed about Malaysian public universities?

              The latest QS rankings of the top Asian universities should rock your boat then.

              Institutions from the “gene pool” countries rank pretty good.

              Malaysian public universities? Seen but not heard, looks like.

              Reply
          • 79. IT.Scheiss  |  June 15, 2016 at 2:37 am

            “So, what values are you talking about? What choices?”

            Perhaps I should have said that the Americans can do what they want in their county but don’t tell others what to do in their respective countries.

            However, I agree with you that Americans today don’t have many values worth talking about.

            “Are we about to ban Apple products, Facebook, Twitter, Android and Microsoft in Malaysia because we are being culturally dominated and exposed to foreign mores?”

            What do these American products and services or Microsoft’s acquisition of Linked-in have to do with the thread of this discussion which is about gun-related laws in the US?

            As for the No. 1 kafir regime, for me it’s the U.S.

            Reply
            • 80. Kineas1067  |  June 15, 2016 at 9:37 pm

              Which is “guaranteeing” peace in the region?

              Strange, isn’t it? That the country you have called the “No. 1 kafir regime” is being courted to maintain “the pivot” to the region?

              Perhaps existentialist threats serve to differentiate between “kafirs” and “believers”?

              Which has everything to do with the thread of this discussion, don’t you think?

              Reply
    • 81. HY  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:00 pm

      i think russia today reporting on russia affair is worst if not equally trash. british n usa news outlet never deny who they support n their political inclination, u can choose to read whatever u want. msia spore n china press r the true trash.

      Reply
      • 82. IT.Scheiss  |  June 14, 2016 at 7:57 am

        Then which publications tell the truth as far as you are concerned?

        Reply
        • 83. HY  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:41 pm

          there is no 100% truth, but in the 2 countries u mentioned, the people have a choice to read what they perceive as truth, i dont think the same apply in the 3 countries i mentioned. no?

          Reply
  • 84. Jamie  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:17 pm

    interestingly this also happened very shortly after the heinous shooting but nothing is said of the man’s religion in American media because …dun dun dun.. he is white?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-arrested-california-guns-explosives-39798076

    Reply
    • 85. IT.Scheiss  |  June 14, 2016 at 8:58 am

      And no mention about this killer’s religion either and James Loibi who fatally shot innocent singer Christian Grimmie does not look like a Middle Easterner nor a Muslim.

      “Orlando, Florida (CNN)Florida authorities answered one of the major questions in the shooting death of Christina Grimmie, the 22-year-old singer who made her name on NBC’s “The Voice.”
      The man who killed her was Kevin James Loibl, 27, of St. Petersburg, Florida, according to Orlando police.”

      http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/11/entertainment/orlando-christina-grimmie-shot/

      Also, the western media is full of hysterical reports about the gay club killings in Orlando but have made little mention about Christina Grimmie’s killing, also in Orlando, apparently for no reason.

      Don’t get me wrong. I condemn the killings in the gay club and of Christina equally but the western media (and their allies in Malaysia) sees more value in highlighting the gay club killings, quite probably because the gay club killings by a nominal Muslim better serves their prejudices and political agenda.

      It’s like how the pro-Pakatun media Malaysia and with foreign media like pro-Western Al Jazeera and Australia’s ABC make a big do about the murder of Altantuya but have long forgotten the murder of Canny Ong, when nothing justifies both murders.

      Some Pakatuns and pro-Pakatuns allege that Altantuya was involved in negotiations related to the Scorpene submarine deal, which they allege involves corruption and if that indeed is the case, then Altantuya was an accomplice in corruption but they make her a hero.

      In this Al Jazeera’s 101 East Murder in Malaysia documentary, Razak Baginda says that Altantuya was not involved in the submarine deal signed in 2002 when he first met her some years later.

      However, this video says that Altantuya said in her police report that she was blackmailing Razak Baganida and blackmail is a crime.

      Here is a link to Al Jazeera’s 101 East Murder in Malaysia documentary where towards the end, they interview a supposed distant relation of Sirul Azha who says that Sirul who was staying at his home in Australia that Razak Baginda had shot Altantuya and Sirul then placed the explosives and blew her up. This contradicts what Sirul said in his cautioned statement that he shot Altantuya and blew her up.

      Here is the video on Al Jazeera’s website

      http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2015/09/murder-malaysia-150908131221012.html

      .. and here is the same video on You Tube.

      The video is 26 minutes long.

      On the other hand, Canny Ong was an innocent woman who was abducted in a car part and murdered by a perverted man who has been executed for the crime but local media has long forgotten about her.

      I last saw a documentary on Canny Ong’s murder on a U.S. based TV channel on cable TV in Singapore in 2014.

      So are these Pakatuns, pro-Pakatuns, pro-Pakatun NGOs and pro-Pakatun media and blogs genuinely concerned about justice for Altantuya and her children or do they regard her as mere fodder for their political agendas?

      On the other hand, I wonder how many of them remember who Canny Ong is, since she serves no political purpose.

      Once Altantuya no longer serves their political purpose, they will discard her like used toilet tissue – believe me.

      Hopefully, those of you with some brains will be able to see the double standards at work here, whether with regards Altantuya or the gay club killings on the one hand and Canny Ong and the murder of Christina Grimmie. both in Orlando on the other.

      Reply
  • 86. dato abdul rahman b mohd noor  |  June 13, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    d gun lobby in d us is very2 powerful n influential especially amongst d GOP politicians. trump just received their endorsement recently. if I m not mistaken they r hiding behind d 2nd amendment of d constitution 2 protect their multi billion dollar industry. my take is that d carnage has got no direct linkage 2 true religion or faith at all.

    apart from organized criminal groups n misguided jihadist n Christian cultists, there wil always b deranged n unstable people in any society that wil create havoc or mischief. give them a chance 2 carry them out wth lethal weapons, then d problem multiplies a 100 times or more. this is exactly what is happening in d US. ‘there is no collective wil 2 legislate a comprehensive gun control law’ . President Obama tried very hard but was unsuccessful.

    we should consider ourselves very lucky that there is a complete ban on d ownership of ‘unauthorized’ weapons/guns. d death penalty is very appropriate. even wth such stringent control, we stil hear that revolvers/pistols r stil available in d underworld fraternity especially amongst hired killers .

    in d mean time d US wil continue 2 bear d traumatic xperience of burying their citizens until such time that they come 2 their senses n introduce a stringent gun control law.

    Reply
  • 87. KM  |  June 13, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    At-Tauba 9:111 says: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their properties, for theirs in return is the paradise. They fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain, a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Taurah, the Bible, and the Quran, and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded, that is the achievement supreme.

    The Jews follow Taurah, Christians follow Bible, and Muslims follow Quran.

    At-Tauba 9:111 says that God had told the Jews to fisabilillah through Taurah.

    At-Tauba 9:111 also says that God had told the Christians to fisabilillah through Bible.

    At-Tauba 9:111 also says that God had told the Muslims to fisabilillah through Quran.

    So must anyone blame the Christians to slay and be slain, fighting fisabilillah?

    Or that the Jews be blamed when they also fight for God, as they were told by Allah to do so in Taurah?

    Aren’t the Muslims also fighting fisabilillah?

    Who told them, each of them, to slay and be slain for fisabilillah?

    And therefore what’s wrong when the Christians and Jews aren’t happy until the Muslims follow their way? Aren’t the Muslims also will never be happy until the Christians and Jews follow their way?

    For all I know some Muslims aren’t happy even when the kafirs don’t follow their dressing code, let alone the ways to approach each other’s religion.

    A sick man had decided to go on killing rampage. There’s nothing religion to his madness.

    Reply
    • 88. Abdullah  |  June 15, 2016 at 10:00 am

      The Prophet s.a.w. said in his Farewell Pilgrimage before his passing away: “… The mujahid is he who makes jihad against his ego (jahada nafsah) in obedience of Allah (fisabilillah).”
      (narrated by Tirmidhi, Tabarani, Ibn Majah).

      Haughtiness, greed, envy, immoderation and lack of self-restraint are blameworthy characteristics in the sight of the Lord Most Sublime.

      `Umar narrated that a man came to the Prophet s.a.w. seeking permission to go on jihad. The Prophet asked: “Are your parents alive?” He said that they were. The Prophet replied: “Then struggle to maintain their rights over you” (fihima fa jahid) … this hadith is evidence that the Sunna for entering the path of self-discipline is to act under right guidance – filial piety is also a form of struggle in the cause of God (fisabilillah).

      * Al-Quran The Cow: v.177:

      Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

      “It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the east or west; but righteousness is to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; and to spend out of your substance, for the love of the Lord, for your kindred folk, for orphans, for the poor and needy, for the wayfarer, for those who beg, and for the ransom of slaves;
      to be steadfast in prayer, and to practice regular charity; to fulfill the contracts which you have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain and adversity, and through periods of stress. Such are the people of truth, those who hold Allah in awe.”

      Reply
    • 89. Kung  |  June 15, 2016 at 11:17 am

      The sage Confucius said, “If there is righteousness in the heart, there will be beauty in the character. If there is beauty in the character, there will be harmony in the home. If there is harmony in the home, there will be order in the nations. When there is order in the nations, there will peace in the world.”

      I think too many people nowadays are too judgemental about other people’s behaviour but they ignore making themselves proper, neglecting to set their heads and hearts right.

      Reply
  • 90. X  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:06 am

    Just sharing…

    Robert David Steele’s view on Orlando Shooting…

    http://82.221.129.208/ifyouareinamericayouprobablycantseethisad9.html

    Reply
  • 91. Ayam  |  June 14, 2016 at 8:10 am

    I hate to say this but I haze ZERO sympathy for the victims. If deaths of 50 people are tragic enough but it still nothing if compared thousands if not millions of Muslims died of America’s bombs, economical sanctions and proxies(see Yemen and Syria today). More importantly those people are gays(not in derogatory manner) and they are not worth defending, let alone walk free. I have no intention to condone the killing but at same time those who died deserves it.

    Reply
    • 92. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 14, 2016 at 8:23 am

      “More importantly those people are gays(not in derogatory manner) and they are not worth defending, let alone walk free.”

      Now do you understand why most of the developed world think Muslims are a waste of space and the lowest form of scum that you can think of?

      Reply
      • 93. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:39 am

        .Formerly known as FHAAHD

        …. world think Muslims are a waste of space and the lowest form of scum that you can think of?….

        …..Over the coming decades, Christians are expected to experience the largest net losses from switching. Globally, about 40 million people are projected to switch into Christianity, while 106 million are projected to leave, with most joining the ranks of the religiously unaffiliated;

        http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

        Reply
        • 94. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:54 am

          What’s your point? I am not a Christian and I believe in common sense and hold a secular belief system. All your stats prove is the fact that the developed world is moving on from religion, while the more backward and illiterate countries, in which Islam has a stronghold on are full of nonsensical and brainwashed loons.

          Reply
          • 95. RINA  |  June 14, 2016 at 11:23 am

            Formerly known as FHAAHD

            …. I believe in common sense…

            …in which Islam has a stronghold on are full of nonsensical and brainwashed loons…

            Elaborate sikit bole tak?

            Reply
            • 96. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 14, 2016 at 1:15 pm

              A lot of Muslims and some of the new Church Christians don’t seem to display much common sense unfortunately. As you can see by some of the bigoted comments above which have been directed towards the LGBT community, these bigots don’t seem to understand or want to accept the fact that these people are on a whole born this way.

              So to suggest that their lives are not worth the same as everyone else’s is ultimately a slap on the face to not just the gay people, but also the supposed creator who made them this way.The fact that they can’t see what is so painfully obvious to most is why I have so little respect for so many religious people.

              Reply
    • 97. IT.Scheiss  |  June 14, 2016 at 9:02 am

      So true. When one American invader gets killed by the resistance it’s world news but when whole families at a wedding are killed by a U.S. drone strike, it’s hardly worth much mention.

      Reply
      • 98. tehtarik  |  June 15, 2016 at 10:30 am

        Like Ayam says, the family deserves it.
        God is great, my foot!

        Reply
        • 99. Ayam  |  June 15, 2016 at 5:30 pm

          Says a typical Islamophobic RBA wannabe…

          Reply
    • 100. talk cock sing song  |  June 14, 2016 at 12:32 pm

      re: “I have no intention to condone the killing but at same time those who died deserves it.”

      I do not condone the slaughter of ayam but the ones that make it to my nasi ayam deserve it.

      Reply
    • 101. Kineas1067  |  June 14, 2016 at 4:53 pm

      Homophobia reigns, apparently!

      Why it gets your goat is an open question.

      And get rid of the faulty logic. Are you condoning the massacre or saying that Mateen’s victims “deserved it”?

      I suppose, using the same logic, that US drone strikes that result in “collateral damage” can also be condoned?

      Reply
      • 102. Ayam  |  June 14, 2016 at 6:16 pm

        I can celebrate the deaths of gays as much as Christians and Jews celebrate the deaths of millions Muslims everyday. Yes I hate gays and nothing wrong celebrating their deaths. They deserved it.

        Reply
        • 103. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 15, 2016 at 3:20 am

          Truly a religion of peace….

          Reply
          • 104. Helen Ang  |  June 15, 2016 at 5:00 am

            Why do you attack the entire religion over one individual’s point of view?

            Reply
            • 105. Formerly known as FHAAHD  |  June 18, 2016 at 5:36 pm

              “Why do you attack the entire religion over one individual’s point of view?”

              99% of Muslims I have met are homophobic. So you like to defend hypocrites who target a certain group of people but bitch and cry like babies when their religious beliefs are attacked? It doesn’t surprise me however considering you are the biggest hypocrite of the lot.

              Reply
          • 106. Ayam  |  June 15, 2016 at 5:29 pm

            Millions of people died under “religion of mercy” too.

            Reply
            • 107. Kineas1067  |  June 15, 2016 at 9:44 pm

              Millions?

              Like when the Caliphate was spread by “fire and sword” from Arabia to Constantinople to the shores of the Mediterranean? No “peace and love” then….

              But maybe you have a selective interpretation of history?

              Btw, didn’t the German Parliament pass a resolution that the Ottoman Turks were guilty of genocide against the Armenians?

              Which Erdogan got all upset about…..

              Reply
              • 108. Ayam  |  June 16, 2016 at 7:15 am

                The list is long. Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Native American tribes, Hindu Indians(Goa), Southeast Asian countries(Acheh, Aru, Pasai, Melaka, Sulu) and more recently 6 million Jews died under a Christian dictator. Yes Hitler was a Christian but most historians refused to tell that to younger generations most likely to avoid confusions or controversies or something else.

                Yes we shouldn’t see 16th century politics from our 21st century morality but if Christians commit genocide, plundering their countries and forcing the surviving ones to convert into Christianity, nobody blames their religion. If Muslims do the same people will suspect their religion first.

                Reply
                • 109. Kineas1067  |  June 16, 2016 at 4:58 pm

                  Yes, maybe, but they are still surviving, aren’t they? The Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, Native Americans, Hindu Indians – they haven’t been wiped off the face of the earth, have they?

                  I am not sure whether Hitler ever professed to being a practising Christian. I am not sure if he quoted the teachings of Jesus in “Mein Kampf”. But he certainly got his comeuppance, didn’t he?

                  As did Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein and other assorted dictators.

                  Or even Mao and Pol Pot.

                  Reply
  • 110. HY  |  June 19, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    i dun understand y padan muka pas under hadi? as long as umno win, it mean pas oso win. r we really expect a diff result in a 3 corner fight?

    that said, pas under hadi dun tok kok abt dap tis n tat, the main reason pas wan out of pr is the conservative group wan to reign pas, they has been sideline by tok guru for more than 2 ge. the only way for hadi faction to gain power is to play victim. dap n its fanboy is stupid to relate all tis to hudud n chinese vote, now wanna blame pkr n azmin pula.

    the moment non muslim give their vote to bn, umno would snub pas, thats the reality. thats y i say pas (the grassroots) is equally stupid. can anyone here imagine the liberal umno will embrace hudud n islamis state? dun make me laugh la.

    Reply

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