60 thoughts on “Video: ‘Tangkap Ahok’ protest in Jakarta turns violent

    1. The news reports said the protest was over Ahok’s refutation of 5:51.

      Surah Al-Ma’idah – Al-Qur’an al-Kareem – القرآن الكريم

      [verse 51] – O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another.

      1. Though such a reminder has been around for more than 1400 years but many muslims including those in this country choose to ignore it. Mat Sabu is very classic example. He looked up to LGE more than Hj. Hadi while he was in PAS. As result he was not only booted out from PAS but his new party is ain’t going anywhere. Sadly another muslim is now taken over Mat Sabu’s place in Penang by agreeing to serve LGE as DCM.

      2. By the Lord Creator of all sentient beings in the universe – The Most Merciful One – in what respect did Ahok refute surah al-Maidah 5:51? Was he intentionally disrespectful or just careless in his public expressions? Was he able to qualify his viewpoint on the Quranic verse in the manner of the esteemed Islamic scholar Maulana Imran Hossein (who is no stranger to Malaysia) in the article below where he says (quote):

        “Finally, the Qur’an is specific when it declares that there is no prohibition on Muslims preventing them from maintaining friendly ties with any people (Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Jew, white, black, brown or yellow) who do not wage war on Islam and do not oppress Muslims by expelling them from their homes and their territory in which they reside: “Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.”
        (Qur’an, surah al-Mumtahana, chap. 60: verse 8)

        As was previously explained, the verse of the Qur’an (5:51) does not prohibit Muslims from maintaining friendly relations with all Christians and Jews. Rather it prohibits friendship only with those Christians and Jews who enter into a Judeo-Christian alliance. It does so because such would be the Gog and Magog world-order that would wage war on Islam and expel Muslims from their homes and from the territory in which they reside.”


        1. Friendship and leadership are two different things. 5:51 is about the later. Yes, islam does not forbid muslims to engage non-muslims on friendly or professional terms. In fact they are encourage to do so, so that the message of Islam can be disseminated in peaceful ways. But they must not go overboard by elevating thier status and appointing them as their leaders as in Ahok case. Doing so would disobey logic. Practically impossible for any non-muslim to lead muslim population since islam is leading by example. Its like asking someone with B2 class license to pilot the airbus!. Completely illogical.

          1. Are you representing the whole of Islamic religion? When you claim the justification of logic, can you spell out your major and minor premises that lead to your conclusion?

            1. I am not representing anyone. It defies logic if the minority leads the majority. Else a Vatican City can appoint a leader from muslim or buddhist or hindu or shinto or taoist or atheist background. The same with the King of England.

            2. Ah sooo Blue! Islam first but logic no learn . . .
              your saliva overflow tea cup

              1. We hope that mayor Ahok made a silly mistake in referring to the noble Quran. Because the retribution for evil mongering is a long and fearful existence in hereafter.

                Sura 104: The Backbiter (Al-Humazah)

                In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

                [1] Woe to every backbiter, slanderer.
                [2] He hoards money and counts it.
                [3] As if his money will make him immortal.
                [4] Never! he will be thrown into the Devastator.
                [5] Do you know what the Devastator is?
                [6] GOD‘s blazing Hellfire.
                [7] It burns them inside out.
                [8] They will be confined therein.
                [9] In extended columns.

            3. It is comforting that you acknowledge you are not representing the religion although your public statement clearly manifests such a motive:

              “But they [the Muslims] must not go overboard by elevating thier [the non-Muslims] status and appointing them as their leaders as in Ahok case. Doing so would disobey logic. Practically impossible for any non-muslim to lead muslim population since islam is leading by example.”

              You are applying analogical reasoning (qiyas) by comparing the mayor of Jakarta to the pope of the Vatican City. Is this logically justifiable? Jakarta is the capital of the democratic Republic of Indonesia whose constitution is founded upon the panca sila principles of nationhood, but the Vatican is a Roman Catholic theocratic state in itself whose leader is not popularly elected by the people. And you complicate a logically incoherent analogy by asking us to consider how incoherent a Taoist, Hindu, Muslim, or Buddhist leader would be for the Roman Catholic Vatican.

              Have you not heard the advise of the Messenger of Allah s.a.w. in Imam Nawawi’s famous collection of 40 hadith?

              Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

              On the authority of Abdullah ibn Masud (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: ‘The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) – and he is the truthful and the trusted – narrated this to us:

              “Verily the creation of each one of you is brought together in his mother’s womb for forty days in the form of a drop, then he becomes a clot of blood for a similar period, then a morsel of flesh for a similar period, then there is sent to him the angel who blows the breath of life into him and who is commanded with four matters: to write down his sustenance, his life span, his actions, and whether he will be happy or unhappy (whether or not he will be among the people of Paradise).

              By Allah, other than Whom there is no deity, verily one of you performs the actions of the people of Paradise until there is but an arm’s length between him and Paradise, and then that which has been written overtakes him, and so he begins behaving like the people of Hellfire and soon he enters into it; and verily some one of you behaves like the people of the Hellfire, until there is but an arm’s length between you and Hell, and then that which has been written overtakes him and so he behaves like the people of Paradise and soon he is admitted into it.”

              [narrated by Bukhari and Muslim]

              The prayer of the scrupulous mukmin who always heed the above prophetic warning is like this:

              Ya Allah biha, ya Allah bi ha, ya Allah bi husnil khatimah. Wa la takhtim alaina bi suuil khatimah

              {O Allah with that, O Allah with that, O Allah please bestow a gracious end to my life; do not finish me off with an evil ending}

              1. Talking about democracy then rest assured cities like New York, Rome, Tokyo, Madrid etc are more democratic then Jakarta. It certainly defies logic if a muslim be appointed as a mayor in any of these cities.

                  1. Helen,

                    There is always an exception and London included. If the majority agrees then there is absolutely no problem. One cannot generalise because of one isolated case.

                1. Are you a Muslim, sir? It appears you have little regard for principles of scholarships and no respect for sound argument.

                    1. Personal statements in the cyberspace about public issues that have grave consequences for the public order and harmony must be addressed aptly. Civic responsibility should guide our public actions, I hope you see that, Islam 1st.

                  1. Mr. Keris, master Confucius also advised good principles:

                    “At home, a young man should be a good son, when outside he should treat others like his brothers. His behaviour should be trustworthy and proper; he should love the people at large and keep himself close to individuals of benevolence and morality. If after all these activities, he still has any energy to spare, he should then read widely to become a cultivated man.”

                    Which muslim person don’t want to be friend with such a man or woman?

    2. This is a rather silly way of looking at things. Then you could elevate a Chinese Muslim or an Arab. If you want to be ruled by your own people then Malay nationalism is by far superior.

      1. Its not a nationalism but a matter of fact. There are many examples to prove the validy of 5:51 as cited by Annie. The Palestinians lost their land and subsequently their state because of their collaboration with non-believers. The same thing here. This country was under colonial rule for nearly 500 years because the muslims back then looked-up at white people and elevated their status as leaders.

        1. Then why are Muslims continuing to live in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, France etc?

          Why are they citizens of these countries?

          Why do they continue to serve in these countries’ armed forces?

          Your “logic” is flawed…..

          1. Jadi penjajah dengan jadi pendatang tak sama la john. Jgn jadi genius tak kena tempat.

            Why do chinese continue to live in Malaysia and Indonesia when they feel that they are treated as second class citizen?

            Why are they STILL a citizen in these muslim majority countries?

            Why do the majority let them all stay a citizen when they abhor serving in these countries’ respective armed/security forces?

            If muslims’ logic is flawed, then your loogic simply have not a foot to stand on. Just go back en masse la. U all still have jus sanguine with the motherland.

            1. And your logic is what?

              Are you advocating that their citizenships be removed without due process?

              Please elaborate.

              I suppose the Orang Asli could ask the same question if they were so inclined?

              Like the Native Americans in the US and the Aborigines in Australia.

              Their targets for ire have “jus sanguine” with their countries of origin surely?

              1. I am advocating that any descendant of uninvited immigrants who does not like to live under bumiputra’s rule and our way of life to surrender their jus soli citizenship and leave for greener pasture. That goes for all caucasians, negros, arabs, iranian, syrian, nepalese, vietnamese, indians, chinese and everything in between. It is unconstitutional to remove citizenship but no harm in asking nicely for everyone’s sake. Why stay when you hate so much and live hard life under the native’s thumb. Imagine the relief u would feel when you migrated or go back in a tongkang, you wont be so hateful anymore. You can choose whether to live under your own race rule or caucasian rule which is much much better compare to your birth country. We could also enjoy some reprieve from explaining ourselves in english to some non-bahasa kebangsaan-speaking citizens.

                I respect China’s jus sanguine and India’s descendant card. They want you back and their door is wide open. Don’t you all need to feel being wanted? Choose something better for yourselves la. Don’t make life harder than necessary.

                On the topic of aborigines, i am going to quote an anonymous Australian. “Aborigines? What aborigines? Issit a sea turtle mate?”. I honestly think our Orang Asal have it good here compared to australian aborigines. Here, at the least they have govt support and their development as a people never impeded. In America, killing natives was once considered a sport. Now, what was your point actually?

                1. Actually, it’s very simple. Those who vote with their feet. Like refugees from the Middle East trying to get into Europe, US, Australia…..

                  As for India and China, both have acknowledged the importance of their respective overseas diaspora.

                  Btw, what do the Orang Asli think of “uninvited immigrants” (your words)? Do you want to educate them on the concept of jus sanguine?

                  Interesting point about the Aborigines in Australia. I believe that the Australian government has made an official apology to the community for past wrongs. The Australian courts an legal system protect the rights of Aborigines. Their native sacred sites are pprotected against encroachments by the government or corporate interests.

                  Get the point?

                  Or are you still hankering for jus sanguine?

                  You might want to shout that out loud among the high rises in Iskandar Malaysia….lol.

          2. These muslims have chosen to live in non-muslim majority countries. This is their choice. Of course they have to follow the rules and laws there.

  1. Saya sll pesan in Malaysia nak menghina Islam jaga2 sikit mulut tu jangan celopar sangat. In Malaysia pun ada ramai Indonesian Muslims, Thais, Filipinos Banglas, Pakistanis, Arabs etc yang juga mudah tersinggung tau.

  2. So a Christian governor supposedly insulted the Quran and the Muslims revert to this sort of barbaric behaviour. Of course many idiots on here will view the instigator as being the one in the wrong rather than condemning this senseless act of violence by the protestors. Muslims, next time when you feel that the world is against you and hates your guts, take a moment to ponder why that is the case.

    1. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD

      …..instigator as being the one in the wrong… ??? Yang mengatal nak instigate apahal? Cerita sikit?

        1. FHAAD 4:48 am

          It’s very simple, Sir.

          There are people who need things explained to them in kids’ language, one syllable at a time. Or, to give them the benefit of the doubt, one word at a time.

          Ahok allegedly or supposedly insulted Islam. Therefore he allegedly or supposedly committed blasphemy. Hence the baying mobs…..

          It happens also in India when Hinduism is allegedly insulted. As has been reported in the past.

          It’s strange that when Christianity is alleged or supposedly insulted, the baying mobs don’t make an appearance.

          Strange, no?

          Meanwhile, do read the reports about the protests in Seoul calling for President Park Geun Hye to step down, “a day after she apologised and accepted full blame for a crippling graft scandal” (AFP).

          Are the South Koreans protesting against President Park just baying mobs who are out to subvert democracy?

          1. Christian is not a religion. It is a business of selling absolution. Been that since the middle ages. Dont you christians know what you pay for every sunday?

            1. AE,

              The Lutheran reformation aka protest movement (hence Protestants) by Rev. Martin Luther in Germany was a fight against the business of selling absolution.

              However the nature of the Christians to want to “protest” has been inherited by the Born Agains in Jerusubang and that is what they will be doing soon on Nov 19.

              1. The South Koreans are protesting against President Park and are calling for her to step down.

                Is that because there are a lot of Christians in South Korea?

                Isn’t President Park a popularly-elected President?

                Btw, the Lutheran Reformation was back in the day.

                The Catholic Church is still around.

                And Pope Francis has met with the leader of the Lutheran World Federation at an ecumenical prayer series at the Lutherans’ Lund Cathedral in Sweden on October 31.

                Not to “protest” surely….

              2. Did u know how did this “protest” ends? 30 years of war from 1618 to 1648. And this is between fellow “lovelovelove” christians.
                Muslim is prohibited from starting a fight, but at the same time we are also prohibited from letting infidels and heretic influencing our religion. We will finish it in the event someone else started it.
                Very different from christians, they dont mind having a pagan leader dictate what goes and what not in their reference scripture. Or having pagan holidays repackage as theirs. They already pay their absolution for their immortal soul, so why would they care to turn up when christianity is insulted? Christianity already serve its purpose to them so why risk harm?

                1. AE, you are convincing nobody considering you know so little about Christianity. Honestly, most of your claims are laughable. Best to just comment on your religion unless yo want to continue to look foolish.

                  1. Better to look foolish when you state facts that the loud minorities dont approve than making a condescending face but being found a fool that couldn’t refute a statement properly. I never found it worth my time to discuss my religion with a non. It is not about winning or losing the arguement, but simply, the message could never get through. Not in my nature to suffer fools, so please do not engage me ever again. Thank you.

                    1. Wow, looks like your elders have done a fantastic job in brainwashing you into believing. what you are stating are facts.Lol. I’m trying to help you not look so stupid. You should be thankful.

                    2. Salah my elders pulak, tadi my religion. Is that yr only defence left? Labelling people this and that without even trying to prove them otherwise. And your response was never against my statement. Such shallow skill your ancestors bequethed you. Kutuk makbapak ni perangai budak sekolah rendah. RBA level rendah je kau ni, taip je laju, otak tarak. Puih

            2. And Islam as practiced in many countries including Malaysia is essentially slavery. Once you’re in, there’s no way out. Talk about a total disrespect for the most sacred of all things, the human being’s free will.

              1. Contrary to respecting others, you are one willful
                “Freaking Hogwild Altercation At Helen’s Dwelling”

                What’s that got to with sacredness?

            3. Ooh, naughty.

              Then Malaysia shouldn’t have established diplomatic relations with The Holy See (The Vatican), right?

              And Indonesia’s Panca Sila (is it 5 or 6 official religions in Indonesia) is an erroneous doctrine?

              I would think that those who benefit from Christian charities and schools (yup, in Malaysia too) would beg to differ.

          2. The Iron Lance,

            Strange, no? Itu KKK you talak pelik ke?

            Lu buta sejarah atau baru turun dari Roket fm Jupiter?

            1. Hahaha, Kak. And which part of “strange” don’t you understand?

              Cerita sikit, lah…..

              As for the KKK (strange context, this), would you be equating them with, say, the Red Shirts movement?

              Or are you more comfortable with the anti-Muslim & anti-immigration diatribes of Trump, Wilders, Le Pen etc? Which has some similarities to the philosophies of the KKK, wouldn’t you say?

              This is one cerita that needs to be told….

              1. The Iron Lance
                I kesian betoi kat you ni. Otak macam serabut aje. Must be suffering from URBAN stress syndrome.

                Mai la jalan2 masuk kampung to destress and smell some fresh air, the peaceful surroundings and mix with all the beautiful Malays here.

                Mungkin jiwa kamu akan jadi lebih tenang..

                1. And you didn’t answer my questions. Again.

                  It looks like your “kesian” is misguided, hahaha….

                  Wiggle, wiggle….

        2. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD

          Habistu the blacks did nothing but were lynched by those Christian whites, just for their being black, so idiots like me tak faham apa lu cakap? Explain la kasi betut2 faham.

          Itu Bush dan Blair hallucinate ata WMD weapon, they go and attacked Iraq, itu ape eh?

          Apa kurang Bersih 4, itu lu talak consider BARBARIC ke, kereta polis pun kasi terbalik?

          Haiyaaa it takes a greatet idiot to know another la…kekekek

          1. Like I said earlier, you are one of the idiots I was referring to. Please don’t engage with me ever again.

            1. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD

              ….Please don’t engage with me ever again? Nape?…

              Wa aa sama sama “idiots” mintak tolong explain pun apahat pula lu tamau jawab? Tak faham kasi explain la!

              ..Islam as practiced in many countries including Malaysia is essentially slavery…

              Cerita sikit dan explain cikit? Ini lagi gua talak faham apa lu cerita?

              1. Typical SOP for Kak Rina. When cornered and put on the spot, it’s always wiggle, wiggle….

                Ever notice how Kak Rina never gives a straight answer to any question posed to him/her?

                It’s because the paucity of what passes for logic in Kak’s worldview can be easily exposed for debunking and ridicule?

                Cerita sikit, Kak. What gives?

              2. Ok Kak, I will humour you. I thought what I said was self explanatory but you obviously didn’t get it. Slavery in the context of control is what I meant. Evey Muslim in Malaysia is inhibited by Islam in many instances, and on top of that list is being able to choose their own creed. I feel sorry for a Muslim who is just not into Islam and finds another religion to be more to his or her liking. In Malaysia, this person’s right to choose is effectively taken away and therefore this person is in many ways a slave to Islam. Surely even you would agree with this.

  3. yang tak duduk jakarta…or tak pergi jakarta tu..toksah la nak komen sangat…lagi2 makcik tua yg duduk dgn apek2…

    anyway Helen

    i will be in jakarta again next week, ill let you know whats up ( since yesterday’s meeting was cancelled due to this…many MNCs asked their employees to take a day off)

    btw, lepas Isyak semalam the majority of the protesters dah belah dah pun…..ada splinter group je yg buat hal….for the most part of the day the demo was very peaceful

    1. Orang Perlis
      …btw, lepas Isyak semalam…..
      hang ni pun sekok lagi, yg ni pun nak parrot kat sini? Hang sendiri takde dsana pun nak juga bagi komen? Kekekeke

    1. And this is news why?

      How many illegal workers are there in Malaysia?

      Talk about porous borders!

      How do these people slip across borders with seeming impunity? And find employment?

      Cerita sikit, lah……

      1. The Iron Lance

        …..How do these people slip across borders with seeming impunity? And find employment?…

        Eh? Should ask these questions in front of your mirror la! Or tanya toknek makayah you.. Kekeke

        1. Are you making excuses on behalf of the authorities or for the porosity of Malaysia’s borders?

          Or denying that there are, sumpah, no illegal workers in Malaysia?

          You must be a card-carrying propagandist of the first order. Or a Sifu of obfuscation. Maybe your mirrors could tell you that, when you are not asking them who is the fairest in the land!

          Why not put it to the test?

          1. The Iron Lance
            Tak payah kelentong banyak sini, we know exactly whts on your mind.

            Carry many mirrors in your pockets, mungkin kamu tak perasan wht you are up to yourself. Kepala melelong aje tiap hari..

            mai la kampung kami, ni musim buah2an we kasi makan free aje, ..bole tenang2 sikit otak kamu tu, dok bandar nak gi toilet pun kena bayar! Kesian la kamu semua ni.

            1. Ooh, how magnanimous of you to be so charitable.

              But that’s not what is on my mind.

              Anyway, what’s with the mirrors thing?

              I seem to recall that you had a thing going with women of, shall we say, I’ll repute.

              Switched hobby horses, have you?

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