Chan Lilian in ‘trouble’ over her Christianity, actually

December 3, 2016 at 9:42 pm 74 comments

Yesterday’s mammoth street protest against Jakarta governor Ahok was a show of Muslim unity against a – keyword – Christian politician.

The majority of the world media identified Ahok as a ‘Christian’ in their headlines. His Christianity is the operative term.

Najib Razak in his keynote address to the Umno assembly this week said GE14 will be a battle between DAP and Umno. In other words, evangelicals vs Muslims.

Or to put it quite simply, a clash of civilizations as is happening elsewhere in the world.

Below is my blog posting more than five years ago — from July 2011. I’ve been consistently saying this.

Ahok leaving the Attorney-General's office after acknowledging the charge of blasphemy

Ahok leaving the Attorney-General’s office after acknowledging the charge of blasphemy


 

Helen Ang

By all accounts, the crux of Chan Lilian’s contentious tweet lies in this line: “i think all Christians shud march for all the persecution they had done to us and our Lord”.

The police had investigated Lilian for sedition but apparently No Further Action (NFL).

Chan Lilian, Special Officer to Lim Guan Eng and one of his chief propagandists

chan lilian lge

View original post 1,523 more words

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74 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Blue  |  December 4, 2016 at 11:57 am

    The reason why they are in trouble is straightforward. It traces back to more than 2000 years ago when christians started abandoning the original teachings of christ and replacing them with the versions invented by the church. Mr. Ahok and Ms. Lilian are no exception.

    Reply
    • 2. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 5, 2016 at 6:23 pm

      Since you seem to be an expert on the religion, why don’t you enlighten us on what the original teachings of Christ were.

      Reply
      • 3. Blue  |  December 6, 2016 at 9:57 am

        Simple. There is only ONE god to start with. Not two and definitely not three.

        Reply
        • 4. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 6, 2016 at 11:43 am

          Just the deep and profound theological response I expected. That’s not what I asked, though. I want to know what Christ taught before the Church changed his teachings. References needed.

          Reply
          • 5. RINA  |  December 7, 2016 at 1:31 am

            Formerly Kown as FHAAHD

            Eh kamu nih lawak la. Sudah gaharu cendana pula.

            Reply
            • 6. HY  |  December 7, 2016 at 4:42 pm

              just guessing, i think he expect something refreshing n enlightening, not the same old opinion/question that already been asked n answered for centuries. tak banyak mahu baca suratkhabar lama la.

              Reply
              • 7. AE  |  December 8, 2016 at 6:12 pm

                bila lu sewa itu keleta ploton saga 1985 aa, lu mau halap dapat itu fellali balu punya speed meh? So hai la lu sama maciam lu punya kawan…

                Reply
                • 8. HY  |  December 10, 2016 at 12:21 am

                  bukan gitu, kalu tukar olang ulus ploton, kemungkinan bugati porseh speed pun dapat capai, kesimpulannya olang yg tanya soalan misti ada otak, jangan tilu ateis soal muslim lu ada nampak god meh, god ada talipun sama lu meh, apasal lu caya sama god. i halap lu bukan sama taraf macak lu punya kawan.

                  Reply
                  • 9. AE  |  December 10, 2016 at 3:44 am

                    aiyo apek hy, lu punya sohai sulah manyak nampak oo, kasi solok sikit la. cerita sewa kereta ma, apasai masuk management ploton ha? kasi baca butut butut la, isi talak baik jangan ciakap ooo

                    kita muslim punya test a memang tuhan takmau tunjuk punya, kalau tunjuk aa,,itu FAITH worthless ma, buang longkang pun longkang tak mau, contoh aa lebih kulang macam invest saham baru keluar IPO la. sudah nampak untung banyak mana boleh dapat opening price punya. sapa beli awal untung busat punya, beli lambat talak untung ooo..halap paham aa apek

                    lagi satu aa, kalau itu ploton boleh lari selupa bugati porseh, lu ingat lia haliga pulo pulo libu saja ka, manyak klaka la lu…

                    Reply
                    • 10. HY  |  December 10, 2016 at 12:30 pm

                      halo akal elek, kebodohan lu dah improve la, semakin lama semakin daft, betul kah kata tu di lu memang inbred? hanya olang bodah compare apa yg dah obvious, aku hanya mahu menonjolkan kebodohan lu la.

                      siapa kesah apa lu muslim pikir, lu mahu beli kah jual ka lu punya pasal, olang bincang christian lu cakap lu punya agama buat apa, bak kata olang putih irrelevant.

                      pigi la teluskan perbahasan lu dgn di, itu suit u best, sini mahupun bukan semua bijaksana tapi tak sesuai untuk tahap daft juga, sedar diri sikit.

                    • 11. AE  |  December 10, 2016 at 9:32 pm

                      Tak peduli buat apa lu tanya tanya. Kalau tak kesah apa sebab lu sibuk sibuk bangkang atau masuk campur. Lu marah orang carut sama lu punya bangsa tapi bila lu punya bangsa carut sama orang lu suka, diam saja. Kasi ajar la lu punya bangsa hormat sama orang lain. Cakap baik baik, jangan carut carut. Ini yang gua mau tunjuk sama semua orang. Ada nampak ka apek? Baru panggil sohai sudah marah. Lu panggil gua apa? Bangsa tak ada budi bahasa….

            • 12. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 7, 2016 at 6:00 pm

              Rina, adults are talking here. Please don’t interfere in matters you are clueless about. Your Muslim brother, Blue has made a big statement like a lot of you Muslims tend to do. I just want some references from him to prove his point. Not so hard now, is it? As expected, he has nothing.

              Reply
              • 13. Blue  |  December 8, 2016 at 9:29 am

                I did response to you challenge but it was moderated by Helen. Let me put in other way round. What do you think Christ was doing when he made a declaration like what reported in Mathew 5:17-18?

                Reply
              • 14. AE  |  December 8, 2016 at 6:16 pm

                Another garden hose variety bully….let us see u how defend your faith. With references or with lies and deflection.

                Reply
                • 15. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 11, 2016 at 5:33 pm

                  AE, first of all, these supposed contentious verses and teachings are only contentious to Muslims. Christians have no issues with the trinity, eating pork etc because we read the whole bible in its entire and proper context. We also have Church tradition which are sources that you find outside the bible to back up our teachings. Picking single verses out of context is what critics do oh so well.

                  Islam, on the other hand, cannot justify it’s existence unless it can somehow disprove what Christ really taught and hence Muslims go out of their to misrepresent true Christianity. If Christ is divine for example (which is crystal clear if you read the Old and New Testaments), then Muslims have a serious problem to deal with.

                  So the easy thing for Muslims to do is to claim that either the bible was corrupted (the standard response), the Church misrepresented the teachings or that the early Christians misrepresented Christ. All of which is laughable to me because you and other Mulsim critics are only capable of making sweeping statements without giving us the details and evidence.

                  I require you and Blue to show me a list of the books that were corrupted, when and where they were corrupted and what were the original books that were removed. Until you do that, I really cannot take your arguments seriously.

                  Reply
                  • 16. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 12:56 am

                    Did you think i took you seriously? Didn’t you sense the sarcasm, even a tiny little bit? Did you feel that i have this urgent need to satisfy you in any way?
                    Now here is my answer to your latest shifting requirement. Remember, last time, all you wanted was REFERENCES.

                    “Every book you have in your faith is corrupted everywhere, they are corrupted the moment any of you corrupts wrote them. The only books i believe to be sent by god to men is the Zabur to prophet Daud a.s, Taurat to prophet Musa a.s, Injil to prophet Isa a.s and Al Quran to prophet Muhammad s.a.w. All these books are lost to mankind due to willful corruption of it by its own adherent after the prophet that recieved them passed away, with the exception of Al-Quran which is guaranteed by Allah, my god, to be pure, unchanged and free of corruption till the end of time”.It is all stated in the Quran. You are welcomed to check but you might have to go through all of it since i did not feel benevolent enough to make it easier for you.
                    If you don’t agree with me, you can go eat shit since it does not defile you body and it is eliminated in the stomach as per MATTHEW 15 VERSE 10,11,17,18 AND 19. Hope that clears the misunderstanding that you think we have between us…

                    P/s: i dont eat shit or pork because the quran says they are dirty. And pork is the dirtier of the two, if not the dirtiest.

                    Reply
                    • 17. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 12, 2016 at 10:58 am

                      “Every book you have in your faith is corrupted everywhere, they are corrupted the moment any of you corrupts wrote them. ”

                      What a mature argument, and once again with no evidence to back up your claims whatsoever. For future reference, I think it’s best that you don’t try to have a discussion with a Christian because you are actually doing a disservice to your own religion and your own religious book(s). Leave the discussion to Muslims who actually know their own faith a bit better than you do yours.

                      I say this because any Muslim who truly knows his faith cannot claim that the Torah or the Bible had been corrupted without voiding his own Quran. The two following two Quranic verses prove my point.

                      The Qur’an encourages Jews to judge by the Torah:

                      How come they (come) unto thee (Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? (5:43, MP)

                      And the Qur’an urges Christians to judge by the Gospel:

                      Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers. (5:47, MP)

                      Explain this to me, AE. If all the books had been corrupted from the moment they were written as you suggested, why would your own Quran (circa 632 AD) instruct the Jews and the Christians at the time to refer to corrupted texts in order to validate Islam? Doesn’t make sense.

                      Since Helen is getting upset at me for apparently trolling you and others, this will be my last post on this matter.

                    • 18. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 4:09 pm

                      Thanks for letting me have the last word. Did you learnt “everything” about islam before you made this comment as you had ask muslim to do before attacking your religion? I do not think so. You should check the meaning of “mansukh” . Malays even took this word into our vocab, not that you care anyway.
                      The quran differs from all other corrupted book because it is sent to the prophet bit by bit and not in one go like the others. The way it is arrange now is not in chronological order but from the longest to the shortest but for the first one. But if it is done chronologically, we can actually see that most time there is always a historical reason it was sent down like diplomatic mission, wars and such. It is also divided by where the prophet is located at the time it was sent, either in Mecca when the islam is still oppressed and in Medina later on when things are looking up. Some verses sent in mecca was nullified or replaced by the ones sent in medina. And both verses you quoted(mecca verses) was replaced by “the verse of the sword”. Google it on your own.
                      I admit that my own knowledge about islam and especially the quran is not complete and there are better people than me in most regards. However i know enough to believe that this is the era of fitnah and as a muslim i have the duty to defend my faith as best as i could. It is my belief that a little bit of knowledge acted upon is better than being an omniscient spectator. And as i had told one of your “friend” here, my intended audience is not you nons but my own”ilk” as your kind like to put it. However i really admire the effort you put in your argument. A thousand apologies if some of my words hurt but i mean each and every one of them. Next time then….

          • 19. Raj  |  December 7, 2016 at 10:20 pm

            If you want to learn it you would look for it yourself the fact you are asking in a cynical manner it’s fairly obvious that you are just being sarcastic.

            Your sources are the Old testament,the teachings of the disciples of Jesus (RA) not what is going on now.
            If you were serious you would look yourself

            BTW Eating pork is banned look to the old testament

            Anyway it is fairly obvious you are being sarcastic

            Reply
            • 20. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 8, 2016 at 5:35 am

              Raj, the old pork argument I see. Easily refuted. Do you think Christians who read the scriptures a hell of a lot more than their critics do would be so silly not to have noticed what was written in the Mosaic law, and totally ignore it? Think about it.

              Certain things changed after the coming of Christ and certain Mosaic practices were done away with as they were no longer deemed to be relevant. Eating pork is one of them, and here are the scriptures to back it up.

              Matthew 15.1-3 Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash their hands when they eat.” Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

              The following set of verses are the ones to take note of FYI .

              Matthew 15. 10-11 Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it”.

              Matthew 15. 17-19 “Do you not yet realize that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then is eliminated? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander”.

              As you can see, we don’t select our beliefs from thin air as many claim.

              Reply
              • 21. AE  |  December 9, 2016 at 11:26 pm

                Maybe not thin air but very very very thin reasoning. Old testament was very specific about which animal you can and cannot eat. and the best you can come up with is 2 very vague verses about what comes out of your mouth? Why not eat shit? it does not defile you and it is eliminated in the stomach according to the verses you quoted. Don’t you think a revocation of a previous SPECIFIC commandment issued by a GOD deserved to be SPECIFIC as well? Clearly a case of pagan interference or simply twisting your own scripture to suit your desire…

                Reply
              • 22. Blue  |  December 10, 2016 at 11:22 pm

                In Matthew 17-18, Jesus says “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”

                The meaning of these verses is crystal clear no matter how you twist and spin it. Jesus wants you and anyone who claims he or she is christian to follow the old testament – not selectively but in full. Book by book and word by word. Do otherwise than you are not the follower of Christ. Period!

                One more thing, Jesus was circumcised when he was 2. I doubt you are!

                Reply
                • 23. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 11, 2016 at 9:19 pm

                  “Jesus wants you and anyone who claims he or she is christian to follow the old testament ”

                  Ok then, I will heed your advice and be sure that Christ is God and that the Quran is clearly incorrect about denying his divinity.

                  Here’s what the Old Testament says about Christ.

                  Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (God with us).

                  Tell me again, Blue, you initially stated that the Church altered the teachings of Christ and proclaimed divinity on him. The above verse was from 2000 years before the Church was formed and yet the Jewish prophets seem to be of the same opinion as the Church. Was the Old Testament corrupted as well?

                  Reply
                  • 24. Helen Ang  |  December 12, 2016 at 8:41 am

                    You are trolling the Muslims non-stop. That’s provocative.

                    Unlike you, they don’t have this need to keep nitpicking other people’s beliefs.

                    Even when the Muslims are angry with what’s happening to the Rohingya in Myanmar, they don’t go and pick fights with Buddhist scriptures. Think about it, and about your attitude.

                    Reply
                    • 25. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 12, 2016 at 11:18 am

                      “Unlike you, they don’t have this need to keep nitpicking other people’s beliefs.”

                      There we have it all, Helen is not capable of any form of objectivity whatsoever. Why the double standards, Helen? Read the first post to this thread, AE’s posts and then think about what you have just said.

                      Trolling btw is making statements without evidence and is done so to rile up others. I have backed up mine, and all was done in retaliation to an initial post attacking Christianity. If you read my first three posts on the matter, you would have noticed that Islam was not attacked at all.The attacks came later when others joined in.

                      If someone like AE can’t handle it, that’s his problem, no need for you to step in. When they decide to attack another’s faith, they should be prepared for attacks on their own creed. But I get it, on Helen’s blog, Islam is a protected species whilst Christianity is encouraged to be mocked.

                      Finally, someone who spends a good part of her day mocking and trolling Hannah’s weight issues should be the last person to lecture others.

                    • 26. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 3:17 pm

                      What are you talking about? It is you that cannot handle me. Not the other way around. Still twisting and squirming under the weight of my western style argument and wiki links. Now blame the landlord that the ground not even. So still think you can dance? I am just using the technique i learn from your kind when they attack my religion in FMT and Mkini. If you think that is fair then why all this whining? Go and change the wiki content. And to round things up let me quote one of your betters…”wakakaka”.

          • 27. Abdul H Ismail  |  December 8, 2016 at 12:21 am

            Formerly Kown as FHAAHD

            That is the main contention. It shows how shallow your knowledge is.

            Reply
            • 28. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 8, 2016 at 5:09 am

              My knowledge is shallow? Lol.

              That is not the main contention, as I don’t know one Christian who believes in more than one God. It’s obvious that he is referring to the triune God and not three separate gods, but I am still waiting on evidence of how and when the Church changed the teachings pertaining to this.

              I have no issues with people having differing views, but it’s pretty pathetic to make a claim and to not back it up with a shred of evidence. And before you claim to know anything at all about another religion, it’s best to actually study that religion and then try to poke holes in it.

              People like yourself and Blue clearly have no idea about Christianity but are judging it and misrepresenting it based on what the Quran says about it. That’s as stupid a position to take if ever there was one.

              Reply
              • 29. Abdul H Ismail  |  December 10, 2016 at 1:17 am

                Interesting that your 3 in 1 is just like today’s coffee. Maybe that’s where coffee manufacturers got that idea from.

                Reply
              • 30. MeorUsa  |  December 10, 2016 at 5:37 am

                “I don’t know one Christian who believes in more then one god” you wrote.
                Neither do I.
                For the last 35 years i have been around Christians more then with Muslims.That trinity concept don’t convinced Christian i have met that there are three god.
                Just as in my Syahadah, No God but God and Muhammad the prophet of god.That don’t elevate Muhammad to God level.

                Reply
          • 31. AE  |  December 8, 2016 at 10:04 am

            Ahh..references..i can do that. I wont quote quranic references since i know the kind of bigot you are and no christians quotes either because i do not use lies in my argument. Let us use the google(since you do not know how to) and western logic. Please find the references below.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
            https://global.britannica.com/event/Council-of-Nicaea-Christianity-325
            https://www.google.com/amp/s/gotquestions.org/amp/council-of-Nicea.html

            Now read it first before trying to refute me, its your history.
            Was it Jesus Christ himself declared that he is the son of god, a god himself or one of the aspects of trinity? Or was it the over eager apostles? Or was it the council’s doing under the purview of Emperor Caesar Flavius Constantine, the ruler of a failing pagan empire, in order to quell dissent created by Arius of Alexandria and the Arianism doctrine which state Jesus christ is the created and not the creator, that he is just a prophet instead of a god walking on earth. Wait..did that sound familiar or what? So how many gods did the christians have again? One? Three? Is the god’s name Allah, Iswar, Elohaim or Jesus Christ

            Sometimes i wonder, why did the council did what they did. Saving an empire who fed them to the lions for sport. Was it self interest? The Pope of that particular period, Sylvester 1, also did not chair the council. A pagan emperor did.
            So mr. formerly, who is actually your god and who actually ordained his godhood?

            Reply
            • 32. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 11, 2016 at 6:14 pm

              I feel like banging my head against a wall every time you put up that silly link. You really are showing your ignorance and it’s getting embarrassing. The concept of the trinity was taught long before the Council of Nicaea FYI. Christ taught it in scripture for one (will post a few verses later).

              If you are going to attack a faith that is foreign to you, please educate yourself in that faith first, otherwise, you are going to come across looking very silly. All that happened at the Council of Nicaea was that the doctrine was ratified and made dogma in order to dispell heresies that were creeping in at the time.

              As a side note, if you had posted a Quranic verse to disprove Christianity, then you would have been laughed at by all. Luckily for you, you didn’t do that. It would have been the equivalent of me quoting the Bible to disprove Hinduism. Totally illogical.

              Here are a few quotes from the Early Church Fathers. These are from well before Niacea FYI. I hope this should be enough for you to drop the silly misconception that Nicaea was the origin of the trinity concept.

              180 AD Theophilus of Antioch Chapter XV. In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the trinity (Greek trias) of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. (II,15).

              150 AD Justin Martyr “The Father of the universe has a Son, who also being the first begotten Word of God, is even God.” (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 63)

              150 AD Polycarp of Smyrna “I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen” (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14).

              180 AD Irenaeus “But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father to Angels, Archangels, Powers, Virtues…” (Against Heresies, Book II, ch. 30, section 9)

              180 AD Irenaeus “Christ Jesus is our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King.” (Against Heresies, Book I, ch. 10, section 1)

              140 AD Aristides “[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16).

              74 AD The Letter of Barnabas “And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, ‘Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,’ understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men” (Letter of Barnabas 5).

              Reply
              • 33. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 12:02 am

                Come on. We all know the true reason you bang your head for three whole days. Did you go to church today to ask your priest for help?
                Well, i already made up my mind about christians. My only goal here is to poke holes in your religion. I don’t need to know everything about you, just your weaknesses. The very same treatment you accorded my religion or we won’t be in this situation. Now the church itself do not rely on this fathers you copy pasted. Read the wiki lah. Too long to paste here.
                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers

                Not necessarily ordained bla bla, not necessarily a saint bla bla, bla bla views later deemed heretical. What’s this? You cant even defend your pagan emperor council and you bring more doubt to the table? Sorry, did you only show me more instances of cherry picking in christianity? Well thanks a bunch. siti have posted a video below that i am dedicating to you. Enjoy!!
                Btw i didn’t say nicean creed bring forth the trinity concept but the starting point of you christians twisting your own belief for political expediency. A truth, once twisted will always be a LIE! Better luck in your next post perhaps….

                Reply
        • 34. mimkasrah  |  December 9, 2016 at 2:50 pm

          Maaf didahului, tidaklah Dia menyerupai makhluk ciptaanNya dalam berbilang-bilang.

          Reply
  • 35. Indian  |  December 4, 2016 at 12:12 pm

    Hate the sight of the uncouth, fat bitch. Behaves like she owns any place she walks into.

    Just like most Cina who behave like they own Penang.

    Reply
  • 36. MeorUsa  |  December 4, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    Truth is not the monopoly of any religion.

    Reply
  • 37. AE  |  December 5, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    Says the person with no religion right up to the moment he found one. Seen it all the time…usually right in front of death’s door. Then the word “monopoly” will only means a dice game.
    Muslims please note that agreeing with such statement put your aqidah in danger. Rukun iman #3.

    Reply
    • 38. surrhead  |  December 5, 2016 at 4:09 pm

      AE the blaberring munafiq, i am not getting what puts akidah in danger as per Rukum Iman # 3 – kepercayaan kepada kitab2….care to elaborate?? or is it a usual blabber?

      Reply
      • 39. AE  |  December 5, 2016 at 6:55 pm

        Surrhead the infidel, you are not my intended audience because you do not have the aqidah. Muslim will know what i am talking about. Btw its a secret, and you have to become one of us before we would teach you. Google la sikit, jangan malas

        Reply
        • 40. islam1st  |  December 5, 2016 at 8:11 pm

          Cina pun banyak yang malas macam MCA!

          Reply
          • 41. Aku Melayu  |  December 5, 2016 at 11:27 pm

            MeorUSA,

            I tinggal di USA hampir 20 tahun dan mempunyai suami Mat Saleh America. But I’m still a Malay who still adhere to Islamic teaching. I gather you are the kind of person who thinks everything is good when it comes to the westerners and everything is considered outdated when it comes to Islam. Ingat lah asal usul kamu. Saya cukup menyampah dengan orang Melayu yang konon-kononnya liberal. Ya, liberal tahu kucing!

            Reply
            • 42. MeorUsa  |  December 6, 2016 at 8:36 am

              Knowledge is not own by any culture, religion or geography.We seek knowledge wherever it reside.
              Melayu aku sampai akhir hayat.
              I will not champion west or east.

              Reply
              • 43. AE  |  December 6, 2016 at 10:57 am

                Innalillahi wainna ilahi rajiun.

                Reply
              • 44. AE  |  December 6, 2016 at 1:56 pm

                “KNOWLEDGE” and “TRUTH” are not the same thing. So now which one are YOU talking about???

                Truth is attained by getting knowledge. Knowledge might be have some truth in it but has it ever been the whole truth? What is knowledge without truth but a lie swallowed whole.

                Memang la melayu sampai akhir hayat, agama boleh tukar, kulit gelap boleh bleaching, hidung pesek boleh beli baru tapi hamis ketiak kau dari belacan dan budu yang digunakan untuk membesarkan kau sentiasa bergema. Already permeated your DNA. White people have sensitve sense of smell due to their superior nostrils but they are mostly polite people.

                Smell you later, pretender.

                Reply
              • 45. Keris  |  December 8, 2016 at 4:11 pm

                “God is the light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is a niche in which there is a lamp. The lamp is in a Glass, the Glass, like a glistening star, kindled from a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil well nigh glows though no fire has touched it – light upon light! God guides to His light whom He wills, and God sends parables for human beings, and God knows all things.”
                ( Al-Qur’an 24:35)

                Within the realm of Islamic jurisprudence we must discern the difference between the root principles of the sources (usuluddin & usul fiqh) and the legal opinions of the jurisprudent (hukumul fiqqiyah). Never forget that the final Messenger of Allah was sent as a blessing for the worlds, east west, north and south. His teachings must provide beautiful fellowship and right guidance for all times and various places.

                The Fiqh of Reality:
                The scholars’ scholar Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah

                In response to your slurs and hurting of one another, please listen to the story of our earliest ancestors.

                (Quran 5:27)
                “And (O Muhammad) recite to them (the non-believers) the story of the two sons of Adam (Abel and Cain) in truth. When each of them offered a sacrifice to God, it was accepted from one of them but not from the other. So the latter said to the former; ‘I will surely kill you!”

                Abel counselled his brother that the Lord would accept good deeds from those who fear and serve Him, but reject the “good deeds” of those who are arrogant, selfish and disobedient towards God.

                (Quran 5:27-28)
                “The former (Abel) said: ‘Verily God accepts only from those who are pious. If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you, for I fear God; the Lord of mankind, the jinns, and all that exists.’”

                -The First Murder of Mankind-

                (Quran 5:30)
                “So the (wicked) self of the other (latter one) drove him and made it alright to him to murder his brother; so he murdered him and became one of the losers.”

                Prophet Muhammad informed us that Cain became angry and hit his brother over the head with a piece of iron. It was also said in another narration that Cain hit Abel over the head while he was sleeping.

                (Quran 5:31)
                “God sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him how to hide the corpse of his brother. He (the murderer) said: ‘Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?’ Then he became among those who regretted their deeds.”

                Adam was devastated; he had lost both his first and second born sons. One had been murdered; the other was won over by mankind’s greatest enemy – Satan. Patiently, Adam prayed for his son, and continued to care for the earth. He taught his many children and grandchildren about God. He told them of his own encounter with Satan and advised them to beware of Satan’s tricks and schemes. Years and years passed, and Adam begot another son bestowed with great wisdom – Prophet Seth – and his children spread out across the earth. But Satan will never cease to beguile the progeny of Adam intending to send their souls to an evil destination … until the Day of Judgement, when Iblis or Lucifer and his devils will be condemned to eternal hellfire.

                Reply
      • 46. RINA  |  December 7, 2016 at 1:28 am

        surrhead
        Pi belajar baca alif ba ta dulu..then on to Muqadam or iqra’ methods simpler, pastu on to Quran.

        Belajaq online payah satni bunyi ‘r’ dan ‘l’ hang lari masalah tau. Kena cari guru yang bertauliah. Lepaih tu attend Agama classes for indept study pasai banyak sangat bab2 hang kena cover. Anak2 kami start semua ini seawal umuq 4tahun.

        You will get all your answers In sha Allah. Owh, you may enrol with Perkim.

        Reply
        • 47. surrhead  |  December 7, 2016 at 4:59 pm

          OMG, the same old mantra, where you take classes which is taught by men who comes up with their own interpretation on Islam……..whatever happened to your God given brain and logic in living a good life?? The Catholics believe a person may get to God only through Jesus, where else in Islam, a muslim can get to God only by acknowledging Muhammad….Can you see the resemblance? Religion is more then just believing in one book

          Reply
          • 48. AE  |  December 8, 2016 at 10:12 am

            Please do not compare our true religion with a false one. The false one is usually easier. I humbly invite you to answer or refute my argument i had put forward to Formerlywhathisface. I really think he need all the help he can get.

            Reply
            • 49. surrhead  |  December 9, 2016 at 4:50 pm

              It’s certainly a copyright. By using logic and dates involved, anybody can see which religion started first, whose book came out first and who’s copyrighting who. End of the day, a few smart men are always going to use religion as a tool to fool others. For a start, I guess you believe Adam and Hawa to be the first couple on earth…..that’s good enough to confirm gullibility

              Reply
              • 50. islam1st  |  December 9, 2016 at 8:28 pm

                kau kalau tak merepek meraban memang bukan kau, kan, kan??

                Reply
                • 51. surrhead  |  December 12, 2016 at 12:27 pm

                  1st, tahap intelek ko tak sampai ke tahap yg memuaskan, sebab itu benda yg ko tak paham ko ingat org meraban.

                  Reply
              • 52. AE  |  December 9, 2016 at 11:35 pm

                and believing that you are a descendant of a monkey is better? BTW don’t you ever update anything, your smartphone, your Windows, your clothes? Are you still wearing onesies your mom bought? God UPDATES too especially when there is pagans and a self centred priesthood corrupting the religion he bestows upon mankind. Logical, right?

                Reply
                • 53. surrhead  |  December 12, 2016 at 12:37 pm

                  AE, really?? God updates?? now…that’s new…..the all intelligent and all knowing God updates….are you saying God makes mistakes too, and He updates to curb bugs in His system…..And wouldn’t it be easier for God to create just one race and religion, and avoid all this man made conflicts?? Go figure, and i might just turn you into an atheist……..and then you will see that how man uses religion to control mass, and oppress too

                  Reply
                  • 54. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 4:39 pm

                    Now you are just being bitter surrhead.
                    God never make mistake, well, my god at least. Yours …go figure.

                    Ever heard of FREE WILL? My god bestow this curse upon all mankind so we have the ability to choose right from wrong, to make our own decision. There is nothing “easy” or hard for my god. Anything he wills is done. Why would god make things easy for man? How would god know which one of us is worthy and which one is not? This is where the curse of free will come in play. Choose wisely my dear atheist. And do it before you become worm food. The test ends right before your very last breath.

                    Reply
                    • 55. surrhead  |  December 13, 2016 at 4:47 pm

                      DO you know what you just did?? You just came up with your own version of God which suits to your belief. One minute its a curse bestowing God. Another minute would be an all loving God. And you can’t be believing that there are more than one god, do you??

                      Why would god make things easy for man?… Why shouldn’t He, When He created you. Do you make things easy or hard for your kids??

                      How would god know which one of us is worthy and which one is not? Because He is the all knowing God..He should know before He created you, right??

                      I believe you can see there are a lot of loopholes in religions. What keeps it going is Faith. Smart men know this and manipulate the mass. Most Christians has overcomes this. The Muslims world has not yet. Anyway, Islam is only 1400 years old. Give it time….You should look up on how the Christians were during the 15th century, and how it was used on controlling mass.

                      Everything becomes worm food, even you. It’s called decomposing.

                    • 56. AE  |  December 13, 2016 at 8:56 pm

                      I really love it when people underestimate my argument. Each word of my statement is backed by quran. My god IS everything great. You can check his 99 other names and His 20 Attributes. If you dont believe me, so be it.

                      If you ask me, i would make things hard a bit for my kids. I will only give him just enough money so he would learn to spend it wisely. I would never let him indulge with too much food, it is for his good health. I would also encourage him to solve his own problem so he would know how to without relying on me every time he’s stuck in a rut but, of course, with the occasional rescue. I would like to think the above as fatherly love. I do not claim to comprehend the love of allah towards his devotees but i am sure it is at least a thousand fold of the love i have for my child.

                      What loopholes surrhead? The question of FREE WILL VS. PREDESTINATION already solve in the quran. The verses related is too numerous to paste here and my discussion of it would be too long to capture the interest of the younger generation of my intended audience. Furthermore i am afraid that i might mess up and say the wrong thing ergo affecting my aqidah. So i forward you this link which i had referred to in my previous comment and i feel will adress your questions satisfactorily

                      http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=3363

                      Semoga dapat hidayah surrhead.

          • 57. RINA  |  December 8, 2016 at 10:48 am

            surrhead
            Elok la tu ikut kepala otak kamu yg kerdil dan sempit.

            kekeke

            Anyway, tak rugi…gi mula dengan alif ba ta, then start baca muqadam or use iqrak system then Quran.

            Jangan lupa attend Agama classes ya.. jangan sekadar baca translated version of Quran dah mengaku tau semua ya..

            Kalau dah lalui this first phase, nak buka mulut pasai Islam baru la wokay sikit. Ni pakai main teko2 agak2 tembak suara keluaq kot lubang dubur kamu saja buat kasi malu aje..

            Reply
            • 58. surrhead  |  December 9, 2016 at 4:59 pm

              Kalut la ko, Rina…..buat apa buang masa gi kelas2 nu…..kat Malaysia, hafal & ucap 2 kalimah syahadah dah cukup untuk peluk Islam….itulah standard sebenar Islam kat Malaysia, dan sebab kenapa ramai muaalaf balik kat agama asal bila Islam tidak diperlukan…..ko pikir la siapa yg bak Islam@Malaysia ke tahap segini, kalau tak administrator Islam gak??

              Reply
              • 59. islam1st  |  December 9, 2016 at 8:30 pm

                Muslim tak sembah batu dan kayu! Enough said!

                Reply
                • 60. surrhead  |  December 12, 2016 at 12:41 pm

                  Kiub yg duk kat Mecca itu apa crita?? And Kissing of the Black Stone at Mecca itu, apa crita??

                  Reply
                  • 61. Helen Ang  |  December 12, 2016 at 2:26 pm

                    It’s obvious you’re spoiling for a fight. The Muslims don’t question the role of the cross and Christians kissing the crucifix.

                    Remember the Golden Rule: What goes around comes around.

                    If more Christians behave like you, then more Muslims will retaliate.

                    Reply
                    • 62. surrhead  |  December 12, 2016 at 5:19 pm

                      Yes, what goes around comes around..(and i am goona see that you give same lecture when other faith are ridiculed) …and i was just clarifying islam1st statement on Muslims don’t sembah batu dan kayu…..Let me tell you something, most muslims thinks like jewish, as if they are a chosen lot by “GOD”, and they always act on this false pretense, and often downtrodding or oppressing other faiths. The rule is simple, you wanna be respected, you earn it, not demand it, kapish??

                      And anyway, i am just stating the obvious, why should anybody get angry of the obvious?? You mean a Muslim should retaliate whenever someone states the obvious?? OR are you inserting ideas subconsciously into the gullible lots to retaliate on non muslims??

                    • 63. AE  |  December 13, 2016 at 6:07 pm

                      I never said they are ridiculous. I said they are false. Now do YOU get my point?
                      They can say the whatever they want in defence of their religion and i reserve my right to do the same.
                      Btw the only thing obvious about your statement is the malice.

                    • 64. Formerly Kown as FHAAHD  |  December 13, 2016 at 7:50 pm

                      Surrhead, Helen is a two faced hypocrite. Everyone knows this. She’s just pandering to the majority, she’s so predictable. If she was in a Christian majority country, it will be the other way around and she will be ridiculing the Muslims. Her principles are pretty much on par with Najib’s.

                    • 65. Helen Ang  |  December 13, 2016 at 9:17 pm

                      Where do I ridicule Christians as you allege? Show.

                      As for the biggest, two-faced hypocrite, look no further than below, and it’s Hannah Yeoh who is wearing tudung (see pix). Hypocrite much?

                      null

                  • 66. AE  |  December 12, 2016 at 5:00 pm

                    Lambang perpaduan orang islam la surrhead, the cube is not god, it is a standard place to face to in our prayers so your kind cant say we all sembah kayu when there is a tree in front of us. Kissing the black stone signify the desire pilgrims have to enter our heaven since we believe it is a piece of it sent to earth. What you believe is your own problem. Free will, right? Choose your belief wisely.

                    Reply
                    • 67. surrhead  |  December 13, 2016 at 4:05 pm

                      AE….as you have displayed, muslims can have a delicate explanation to what others see as ridiculous. The same manner applies to other faith’s rituals too. Are you getting my point here??

          • 68. AE  |  December 8, 2016 at 11:09 am

            Specific for you surrhead.
            Have any of the christians met Jesus face to face? If you had, how can you be sure its your diety/dieties and not the devil in disguise? Blind faith? Because your priest sang it to you?
            Our religion wasnt based on one book btw. It derived from Al Quran the ever unchanged, hadith, a collection of prophetic wisdom to complement our holy book but never to conradict it and the life of Muhammad s.a.w. In that order. We do not have a priesthood who have the tendency to abuse the choir boys and a church that will cover it up. We only have a tradition of passing knowledge through verified intellectuals. Let compare our ways to god again. Muslim – Muhammad s.a.w – Allah s.w.t. Christian – priest – church/vatican – jesus christ/virgin mary/holy spirit/the father/allah/iswar. Logic is not infallible surrhead otherwise who would need the guidance that religions provide. Care to try again?

            Reply
            • 69. Di  |  December 9, 2016 at 9:27 pm

              Ae,you’re truly inbred. Please go and vote for Umno in peace .

              Reply
              • 70. AE  |  December 10, 2016 at 3:20 am

                5000 years of culture….lol

                Reply
  • 71. C72  |  December 5, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    The rich evangelical churches in the US have been actively funding and promoting their version of Christianity.

    Even the US Military is reported to be alarmed at the fervour of their troops, proselytising to Afghans and others, using rank to coerce fellow soldiers to join in their form of worship and creating barriers between themselves and other army personnel of different religions.

    All this is very bad for troop morale and a clear danger on the battlefield if your army is not unified but split by religious lines.

    This toxic ideology that nurtures a sense of superiority and exclusivity is one of the main causes of the bad behaviour of the Chinese evangelists here and encourages those free thinkers and those weak in their understanding of Buddhism & Taoism to follow their lead.

    It’s a good time for the Government to start questioning the source of funds of these churches, similar to OSI, NED and the rest yang sewaktu dengannya.

    Reply
    • 72. Lousy.Engineer  |  December 6, 2016 at 11:41 pm

      Evangelism in US military is well documented

      Reply
  • 73. Di  |  December 7, 2016 at 7:53 pm

    Helen, what are your thoughts on Najibs Rohingya solidarity rally? How does that contrast with your loud calls to send them back to sea last year?

    Reply
  • 74. siti  |  December 11, 2016 at 1:20 am

    For those of you who would like to know more about Christianity, the link below will take you to a talk by Dr Ehrman, a new testament expert.

    If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?

    Reply

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