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September 7, 2019 at 12:33 am 92 comments

My regular blog reader HY made the comment below @ 10:42pm, Sept 6 responding to my post yesterday ‘Hadi Awang most honest politician in M’sia’.

HY wrote: “i think its a matter of right n wrong, what he said is wrong, nothing to do with honesty. hadi is infamous for his shariah compliance lies, he is essentially a liar, i dun agree he is any better than lks.”

I’d like to share my reply to HY, which is as follows:

RIGHT & WRONG

That’s like insisting on black & white.

We’re more in grey patches, and these grey areas are ever drifting, ever shifting — appearing either darker white or lighter black at different times.

HADI ON ‘ISLAM FIRST’

It’s not right or wrong but it’s factual. Malays care about Palestinians, Uighers, Rohingyas, Bosniaks because they belong to the same religion. Ditto Zakir Naik (unfortunately) — Hadi’s “Muslim brotherhood” dictum.

We’ve never seen Malays march in the street after Friday prayers in support of or in solidarity with the Tibetan cause.

When the Vietnamese boat people landed on Malaysian shores, Mahathir was reported to have said “shoot them” … or was it “shoo them”.
See, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/06/19/malaysia-in-clarification-says-it-will-not-shoot-refugees/9a70a65e-1e6f-4fd5-9aef-509cd5d260c1/

DIASPORA BLOOD TIES

DAP’s Ramasamy cares about the Tamil Hindu minority in Sri Lanka who fought a separatist civil war against their country’s Sinhalese-Buddhist majority.

India issues special People of Indian Origin (PIO) passports for citizens of other countries who are of Indian blood. Some of our Malaysian Indians are holders of these PIO passports.

Not too long ago, it was reported that China too was mulling more or less the same idea for the Chinese diaspora but dunno if such a policy plan has been greenlighted or likely frozen … no updates heard since in the media.

When the Red Shirts led by Umno’s Jamal Sekinchan tried to storm Chinatown-Petaling Street, it was the Chinese ambassador who cleared his throat ‘ahem’ signaling Beijing’s concern on the matter. I don’t recall the ambassador of any other country based in KL making a public statement about the incident.

If we ourselves are Indian tribal and Chinese tribal across national boundaries, why is it wrong for Hadi to be Muslim tribal?

WHAT ARE LIES? 

You claim that Hadi Awang “is essentially a liar”. What did he lie about?

Not anything as far as I’m aware.

As to Lim Kit Siang … Mahathir had him for lunch, yummy (below). 

 

 

Entry filed under: #NotMyGomen. Tags: .

Hadi Awang most honest politician in M’sia The rare politician with sincerity

92 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Conrad  |  September 7, 2019 at 6:30 am

    This is like arguing that there’s something admirable about a bigot who is “honest” about his or her bigotry.

    Reply
    • 2. Helen Ang  |  September 7, 2019 at 7:17 am

      Hadi is letting all Malaysian voters know exactly how ummah-oriented he is. It is good for us ‘Nons’ to know the extent.

      If you look at Tamil newspapers, its articles are in part oriented to India Indian politics, events, celebrities and entertainment. Ditto our local Chinese newspapers to the China-HK-Taiwan compass … less so nowadays of course but practically saturated with the motherland in the decades pre-1957.

      As one example, local Tamil and Chinese media (reflecting their respective audiences) are not all that interested in mainstream Malaysian (read: Malay) entertainers or entertainment scene. I can’t even name three Malay actors/singers who are top presently.

      But I’ll bet a local Indian is able to name three current Bollywood/Kollywood stars.

      Is our cultural orientation bigotry too? Certainly not Bangsa Malaysia, wakakaka.

      Reply
      • 3. Conrad  |  September 7, 2019 at 8:38 am

        “Hadi is letting all Malaysian voters know exactly how ummah-oriented he is. It is good for us ‘Nons’ to know the extent.”

        The nons knowing how bigoted Hadi is, does not make his “honesty” a virtue.

        “If you look at Tamil newspapers, its articles are in part oriented to India Indian politics, events, celebrities and entertainment. Ditto our local Chinese newspapers to the China-HK-Taiwan compass … less so nowadays of course but practically saturated with the motherland in the decades pre-1957.”

        Yeah but is there any bigotry or racism in this ? Malay media focusing on what matters or is interests to the community is not bigotry or racist.

        Demonizing and attacking other communities is.

        “As one example, local Tamil and Chinese media (reflecting their respective audiences) are not all that interested in mainstream Malaysian (read: Malay) entertainers or entertainment scene. I can’t even name three Malay actors/singers who are top presently”

        Again this is neither racist not bigoted. Catering to an audience esp when it comes to pop culture is not in the same league as what Hadi says.

        Indeed Hadi claims that for all intent and purpose, any other culture is subordinate to Malay/Muslim culture which the Tamil and Chinese language media or personalities , political operatives have never said.

        “Is our cultural orientation bigotry too?”

        It is when Hadi Awang says that everyone else should be “pak turut” which would be the same if Indian or Chinese political operatives said it.

        Reply
    • 4. Helen Ang  |  September 7, 2019 at 7:30 am

      There’s the saying “what you see is what you get”. True for Hadi Awang.

      Not true for other politicians, e.g. Syed Saddiq blathering on about his Chinese and Indian “brothers & sisters”, then turning around to invite Zakir Naik for dinner. Dishonest.

      Reply
      • 5. Conrad  |  September 7, 2019 at 8:42 am

        Which is fine but there’s nothing honest about Hadi Awang esp when they now want the UMNO/PAS confab to be about inclusiveness.

        Hadi saying Malay/Islam uber alles is what UMNO political have said before. You would not be praising their honesty.

        Reply
  • 6. Conrad  |  September 7, 2019 at 8:50 am

    Honestly that wanker Mahathir is now claiming that the Malays are lazy and tak bekerja. He’s now claiming that it a culture problem.

    Fuck him. I know Malays who are working two jobs and attempting to navigate in an ever changing geo political landscape brought upon by forces beyond their control.

    Is some kind of honesty in his statement ? The honesty is that he has always looked down on the community he claims to represent.

    But yet his honesty does not extend to fixing the systemic inequalities of the system which ultimately disenfranchises the community he claims to represent butwhich also gives the Malay political elite the means to demonize the nons.

    Reply
    • 7. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 8, 2019 at 4:25 pm

      “Honestly that wanker Mahathir…”

      Honestly, you think he can wank?!

      There are just too many Malays having to make ends meet, taking more than one job is very normal – these days even among the so-called Malay “middle class”.

      Among the many many examples Malays do work hard, I have this weak elderly Malay auntie, travel seven kilometres every morning to sell a heavy bag of breakfast food in my area. Being going on for several years.

      I found out from a friend from her area who happened to be doing breakfast in my area one morning.

      My friend is Chinese. Like the Chinese in his area, the Chinese in my area see it a duty to care about this woman.

      The Old Wanker’s supposed special assistance to the Malays was and is one big con job.

      The only ones benefiting from the Old Wanker’s big heart and special effort for the Malays are a small bunch of his close buddies.

      And, by accident, his children too.

      Of course, for being exposed as a fcuking big fraud, the Snake Pharaoh would blame the Malays too!

      After he blamed the Chinese…

      What a can’t!!!!

      Reply
      • 8. Conrad  |  September 9, 2019 at 8:19 am

        “Honestly, you think he can wank?!”

        You are right.

        He probably pays someone for a hand job ….

        and then blames the person for having no self control.

        Reply
        • 9. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 9, 2019 at 4:24 pm

          “He probably pays someone for a hand job”

          Ultimately with the rakyat’s money too.

          It would be another project wasting massive resources all just like like Proton, Perwaja, etc.

          It would be Lazarus raised from the dead if anyone can do anything with the limp spaghetti!

          Reply
  • 10. Conrad  |  September 7, 2019 at 8:53 am

    Edit for grammar.

    Is there some kind of honesty in his statement ? The honesty is that he has always looked down on the community he claims to represent.

    Reply
  • 13. Abu Adli  |  September 7, 2019 at 10:16 am

    Dear Helen,

    The view of Tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang on Muslim brotherhood is true. Muslim brotherhood is more important than citizenship or right to a passport. If a Muslim is in trouble, we must help and support him regardless of his citizenship.

    Majority of Muslim politicians supporting the Government or the oppositions subscribe to this principle. That is why we support Dr. Zakir Naik. If he has breached the law, let the rule of law applies. His concern of not being given a fair trial in India has its validity.

    Again, Islam recognises the right of Non-Muslims to live in peace. Kelantan is a proof of it where the Buddhists there have been allowed to construct Temples and some of the Temples are bigger than Mosques.

    In short, I really hope that Non-Muslims here realise which of your political parties promote moderation or extremisme. I do not want to see racial tension reaches the level of physical fighting which in the end, the sufferer is our Tanah Air.

    Reply
    • 14. HY  |  September 7, 2019 at 11:45 am

      interesting, what if yr muslim brotherhood invade or conduct crime in our tanah air?

      Reply
    • 15. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 8, 2019 at 4:04 pm

      “If a Muslim is in trouble, we must help and support him regardless of his citizenship.”

      Hard to say what a Muslim is.

      Especially when Muslims themselves don’t seem to know what they are – or what they should be… It all seems to me it is mostly about dressing up like Arabs, grow a beard, look and act “pious”, occasionally (or even all the time) find fault with others, lord it over them… all rather freaking hypocritical and excruciatingly boring.

      I don’t seem to see Muslims loving brands of Islam not similar to their own (which is usually true and best and only). I see Muslim rather good at slagging each other off, aggravating each other (Sunnis seem to be best at it), slaughtering each other over their “one true” everything. Doesn’t impress me, especially the practice of those who can’t seem to be able to leave things for their one true deity to sort out.

      I have lots of non-Malaysian Muslim friends, I see very very much less of the kind of hypocrisy, self-righteousness and the crap lording it over others that I see as a creeping disease here.

      I see it as a grave weakness too on the part of those usually noisy, bossy, bitchy, kaypoh, kacau-kacau types – who, invariably show themselves as intellectually backward, culturally not all that civilised, emotionally barbaric clown rabble, forever touchy over any old issue having near fcuk all to do with Islam as far as I know.

      And as far as I know, none of my non-Malaysian Muslim friends engage in the kind of hot sh*t-stirring. My Shia and Sufi friends (and most Sunni ones) are gentle, sweet, quiet-spoken, cultured, civilised examples and embodiment of why being Muslim may even be worth considering.

      I have to be careful to say not all Malaysian Muslims are like what I wrote above. My Chinese (and many Indian) Muslim friends are not that. I even have relatives whose Muslim lineages go back several centuries in China. Incidentally, my Chinese Muslim relatives and friends feel they are “brotherhood” outcasts when it comes to being accepted by those O Righteous Ones.

      Considering Islam reached China long long before it reached this part of the world, and considering Chinese Muslim scholars have a long history of acceptance and respect in the Muslim (Arab) world, “brotherhood” here can be a massive load of bollocks especially when some race may delude themselves into thinking their take on Islam and practice, maybe like everything else, can only be “superior” – and should be “exclusive”.

      I think it is all an issue of the mindset.

      The head is like a food processor. If it has bits of sh*t in it, any great and good stuff you pile into it can only cause some “pure” sh*t to be processed and enjoyed.

      Meanwhile, I thought “the Chinese” were the only ones doing “reorientation”… Here’s a rather interesting video:

      It dreads me to think if I should become a Muslim, then want out of it, I might end up properly vilified, get my backside whipped, get beaten up, cooped up in a concentration camp, get tortured, tormented, and even have my head chopped off – we already know we do have those itching to properly practise the “head-chopping” school of “brotherhood”!

      I am no Christian, in case you need to know, I am most inclined to following Judaism, a flavour some hate intensely…

      I traveled around China widely and extensively over the decades, I don’t come across Muslims feel they were particularly oppressed, persecuted, victimised. Yes, I have lots of Muslim friends there – not to forget my own Muslim relatives. Muslim friends from outside China I took around felt “brotherhood” and love from Chinese Muslims.

      On the main, it appears “brotherhood” to the Chinese Muslims extends to those who are not Muslims, too.

      Of course, I can’t say Chinese Muslims in general like in any way those “brothers” with a bent for certain kinds of practice – especially extremism and terrorism. I don’t blame them. Nor the Chinese gomen… Hey! I am no Chinese chauvinist, nor communist, nor “old guest” pendatang.

      I am just a plain old “kaffir”, (nice slag from “Brotherhood”)!

      And I am proud to be one, too!

      Hey! Here’s a video of a Muslim (of two) talking “brotherhood” – and practising brotherhood in China! (Don’t think old man is a Muslim…)

      In the good old bad old days, and during the famous deadly riots, Malays took Chinese, Indians to their kampongs to hide. Vice versa… These days we seem only to talk like “pious” hypocrites… any old chance our mullahs don’t seem to be able to do their thing (being religious, for one…), we even hail and praise an ugly vile creature who delights at starting, provoking, fanning racist, communal fires… and who is rubbish nobody else allows into their civilised countries!

      So much to learn from “brotherhood”…

      Ahhh… what have we (or some of us) become!

      When even the Saudis are now discarding aspects of Wahabism, we seem to be doing the kiasu hoarding of all those stuff – and pretending to be more “Arab” than the Arabs – short of riding camels and doing funny things to them – or drinking their piss!

      Saudi Arabia should be the closet to Paradise one can get to on earth. Why is that anything pious, devoted, religious or even holy need come here?!

      Can our “brotherhood” be better than the Saudi “brotherhood”?

      Reply
  • 16. HY  |  September 7, 2019 at 11:26 am

    conrad said it better so i only add on a little pertaining to lies, is there really a thing call shariah compliance lies? if there is, then the muslim can almost justified all wrong doing n guild n sin n whatever with shariah compliance. if no, then what u call him, a poor educated ustaz or a liar?

    Reply
    • 17. Helen Ang  |  September 7, 2019 at 12:59 pm

      What did Hadi Awang say exactly in bahasa Melayu, and can you provide a link to the source?

      The phrase “syariah-compliant lies” was popularized by critics of PAS.

      Reply
      • 18. HY  |  September 8, 2019 at 10:55 am

        i believe the description “syariah compliance lies” is merely to illustrate, hadi endorsed lies with a not relevant instance allowed in the islamic law, its resemble a killer that justified his killing with a quran verse. thats y i said hadi is either a liar or a poorly educated ustaz, the former is simply a moral issue, a typical politician trait which we can see in most dap dog, however if it is the latter, then very dangerous, eg memali.

        Reply
        • 19. Helen Ang  |  September 8, 2019 at 11:48 am

          I know what you’re explaining but I shall still need to see myself what Hadi had said in bahasa Melayu to make his critics think he endorses telling lies under certain circumstances.

          I don’t trust the media and their reporting. The legacy media, e.g. NYT and WaPo are fake news which keep repeating the lie that Trump had said “there are very fine people on both sides” in Charlottesville to support neo Nazis.

          Not true. He was referring to “people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of [general] Robert E. Lee” (not to neo Nazis) as the fine people but nonetheless, the anti-Trump big media deliberately persist in smearing him.

          That’s why I insist on tracing the original source insofar as we can. The “Muslim brotherhood” Hadi quote I cited in my own blog post were penned by the man himself in a column he wrote and published in Harakah, so it’s reliable.

          Trump full transcript @ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

          Reply
          • 20. Conrad  |  September 13, 2019 at 4:45 pm

            “Not true. He was referring to “people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of [general] Robert E. Lee” (not to neo Nazis) as the fine people but nonetheless, the anti-Trump big media deliberately persist in smearing him.”

            Not true at all.

            He has repeatedly lied about not knowing who David Duke is.

            Cut funding for white terrorism.

            Walked back on his post Charlottesville speech condemning white terrorism.

            There were no peaceful people protesting the taking down of the statue. Anyone who knows anything about confederate statues understands that they are totems for white supremacists and nationalist.

            In other words there were no “very fine people on both sides”.

            I get that walking back on false equivalencies is something that the right (which I differentiate from conservatives – which I self identify as) tends to do, but unfortunately with this stupid man, he just lies and makes it obvious what he meant.

            The organize the right movement led by Richard Spencer – he of the sieg heil Trump salute went back to the same venue to remind people they would be back.

            Reply
            • 21. Helen Ang  |  September 13, 2019 at 10:36 pm

              There are statues of Francis Light and Stamford Raffles in Penang and Singapore. They were white colonialists.

              Penangites and Singaporeans who disagree – in the event should these statues ever be taken down – are not necessarily “neo” colonialists. There’s no need to be tearing down “monuments” in a frenzy, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/charlottesvilles-confederate-monuments-are-protected-judge-rules-180972096/

              https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lots-of-americans-arent-sure-if-we-should-take-down-confederate-statues/

              As for the “fine people” presser, Trump did NOT refer to Charlottesville neo Nazis. The full transcript in linked & its source Politifact is a fact checker. Trumps “fine people” were the statue defenders.

              The thugs protesting confederate statues are not peaceful. They’re violent Antifa. Conservatives were peacefully defending the statues.

              David Duke supports Ilhan Omar, https://www.apnews.com/a97b8b2d48c163c5965c2574ccbbe3d3

              Richard Spencer is no fan of Trump. Spencer describes Trump as being like one’s embarrassing “drunk uncle” (when in fact The Prez is a teetotaler) and grumbles “He (Trump) gives us (alt right) nothing”, https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/he-gives-us-nothing-cnn-consults-white-nationalist-about-trumps-tweets

              Reply
              • 22. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 8:01 am

                “There are statues of Francis Light and Stamford Raffles in Penang and Singapore. They were white colonialists.”

                The legacies of white supremacy and colonialism are different. Comparing statues of Raffles and Light who built cities and and for better or worst changed culture is different from the Confederacy who were in fact and legacy traitors to the Union.

                “Penangites and Singaporeans who disagree – in the event should these statues ever be taken down – are not necessarily “neo” colonialists. There’s no need to be tearing down “monuments” in a frenzy,”

                From the article you cited –

                “Moore goes on to note that while he finds this conclusion “inescapable,” the ruling does not mean that the case is settled. Other legal questions still have to sussed out—like whether the state law violates the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which effectively states that governing bodies must extend similar treatment to all individuals in similar conditions. “[T]he government is prohibited from conveying messages that denigrate or demean racial or religious minorities,” Slate’s Micah Schwartzman and Nelson Tebbe explain. “While private citizens may engage in hate speech under existing law, the government may not demean racial or religious minorities without running afoul of the guarantee of equal protection contained in the 14th Amendment.” The plaintiffs have filed a motion to exclude an equal protection defense, according to Tyler Hammel of the Daily Progress.

                The court also has yet to rule on whether the city councilors have statutory immunity; if it is determined that they do not, they could find themselves liable for damages and legal fees should a judgement be made in favor of the plaintiffs.”

                From your article – “Trump may know the statue debate is a safer place for him to be than the maelstrom over whether both sides were to blame in Charlottesville. His true sentiments about his white nationalist supporters, whatever they may be, can lie unseen in the tall grasses of a more academic debate about how we memorialize our history.”

                “As for the “fine people” presser, Trump did NOT refer to Charlottesville neo Nazis. The full transcript in linked & its source Politifact is a fact checker. Trumps “fine people” were the statue defenders.”

                The people defending the statue were not fine people. They were people from Unite the right – a short lived white supremacists coalition – who were there to cause trouble.

                “The thugs protesting confederate statues are not peaceful. They’re violent Antifa. Conservatives were peacefully defending the statues.”

                Antifa are anti fascists protesters who came there to confront the unite the right as they said they would. Thank god for that. Although the white supremacist did manage to kill an innocent person.

                “David Duke supports Ilhan Omar,”

                Yes because of her anti Semitic remarks which she has since apologized for. In other words you acknowledge that Trump is a racist because David Duke is racists who supports racist speech.

                “Richard Spencer is no fan of Trump. Spencer describes Trump as being like one’s embarrassing “drunk uncle” (when in fact The Prez is a teetotaler) and grumbles “He (Trump) gives us (alt right) nothing”,”

                In other words Trump is not racist enough for the likes of Spencer. After supporting Trump he figures out that maybe Trump is not as racist as him, as he would like. Not a good defense for claiming Trump ain’t racist.

                You know who else supports Trump, the Evangelicals. There’s always hope that their proselytizing ways end up here and Trump supporters in this country will learn the full glory of god.

                Reply
                • 23. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 10:49 am

                  The British colonial masters in India (and Malaya) believed their white race to be superior. That’s white suprematism.

                  re: “Comparing statues of Raffles and Light who built cities and and for better or worst changed culture is different from the Confederacy who were in fact and legacy traitors to the Union.”

                  The Confederate generals – like Robert E. Lee – chose to support their home state. That’s like an Iban fighting for Sarawak if the state ever chose to secede from Malaysia. You might view him as a “traitor” to our Malaysian union but to Sarawakians, he’d be a hero.

                  re: from cited article “[T]he government is prohibited from conveying messages that denigrate or demean racial or religious minorities”
                  The statue erected by local authorities to commemorate the Generals (Lee) is because the Southerners wanted to remember that they/he fought bravely for the Confederacy. It does not necessarily mean that putting up such statues were purposed to denigrate or demean blacks.

                  re: “His true sentiments about his white nationalist supporters, whatever they may be, can lie unseen in the tall grasses of a more academic debate about how we memorialize our history.”

                  So stick to the words he specifically uttered in that “fine people” presser. The bad faith press deliberately cast in a false context Trump’s responses made in reply to a barrage of press pile-on.

                  I do not have any emotional investment in defending Trump. However I do have training in journalism and a background in the newspaper industry, and my issue is with how the media today is smearing Trump, Republicans and conservative voters to the max.

                  re: “The people defending the statue were not fine people. They were people from Unite the right – a short lived white supremacists coalition – who were there to cause trouble.”

                  From the ‘fine people’ presser, Trump said: “But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.” […] “”So this week it’s Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”

                  The statue defenders in Charlottesville had a proper permit to assemble. The lefties who attacked the ‘united’-right group did not have a permit.

                  re: Antifa are anti fascists protesters who came there to confront the unite the right as they said they would.

                  As a group, the black-appareled, masked, baseball bat/bicycle lock-wielding Antifa are thugs. Everywhere. They beat up gay Asian journo Andy Ngo in Portland, among many other unnamed, lesser known victims of Antifa violence.

                  re: Thank god for that. Although the white supremacist did manage to kill an innocent person.

                  If the Antifa thugs had not been hitting his car with their baseball bats, the driver may not have panicked and run over the leftie protestors.

                  I do not view the fatality Ms Heather Heyer as an “innocent person”. She was a leftist outrage activist who chose to be there that day to protest the opposite group. Some of her fellow travelers went there armed with baseball bats and looking for a confrontation.

                  re: “David Duke supports Ilhan Omar,” Yes because of her anti Semitic remarks which she has since apologized for. In other words you acknowledge that Trump is a racist because David Duke is racists who supports racist speech.”

                  No, I don’t think Trump is a racist. (I do think Mahathir is a racist even though he has Chinese friends like Tan Sri Lee Kim Yew, who coincidentally I once interviewed long ago as a young reporter before he had his Datukship, and he revealed one interesting thing about Mahathir in the passing.)

                  I think it’s silly to invoke David Duke to make the guilt-by-association smear as the tactic can backfire and their own side pula – Democrat rep Ilhan – yang kena.

                  I think it is dishonest of the media to keep asking Trump about Duke’s endorsement, just as it is dishonest for the media to bash Pewdiepie about the Christchurch mass shooter’s endorsement of him. (Pewdiepie is YouTube’s top vlogger with over 100 million subscribers). Pewdiepie does not know the shooter. The shooter merely latched on to a big Internet celebrity in order to provide media oxygen to his manifesto. Likewise, David Duke’s message would not be receiving any oxygen if the media does not persist in associating him with happenin’ politicos.

                  re: “In other words Trump is not racist enough for the likes of Spencer. After supporting Trump he figures out that maybe Trump is not as racist as him, as he would like. Not a good defense for claiming Trump ain’t racist.”

                  It was CNN that provided airtime to Spencer only for their bait to backfire when instead of endorsing the Prez like David Duke, Spencer instead says he does not support Trump. My point is these games (airing Duke, Spencer) that the media plays.

                  re: “You know who else supports Trump, the Evangelicals. There’s always hope that their proselytizing ways end up here and Trump supporters in this country will learn the full glory of god.”

                  Haha.

                  Reply
                  • 24. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 3:31 pm

                    “The British colonial masters in India (and Malaya) believed their white race to be superior. That’s white suprematism.”

                    And if you read my reply you would note that I never said otherwise. I said the legacies were different.

                    “The Confederate generals – like Robert E. Lee – chose to support their home state. That’s like an Iban fighting for Sarawak if the state ever chose to secede from Malaysia. You might view him as a “traitor” to our Malaysian union but to Sarawakians, he’d be a hero.”

                    Yes and Robert E. Lee regretted his decision. His own home was then used as a grave to soldiers who had died in the war. He would not have wanted a statue in his honor nor would he have supported the people who support his statue.

                    No he would not be a hero to Sarawakians. Sarawakians are not succeeding because they want to keep their slaves.

                    “The statue erected by local authorities to commemorate the Generals (Lee) is because the Southerners wanted to remember that they/he fought bravely for the Confederacy. It does not necessarily mean that putting up such statues were purposed to denigrate or demean blacks.”

                    From the article you cited –

                    “In an April 25 letter explaining his ruling, Judge Richard E. Moore of the Charlottesville Circuit Court acknowledged that there is “certainly much disputed about [the monuments’] effect and purpose, why they were put there, their impact on people, the justification or rationale for them, and the intent of the benefactor and of the City itself.” But, Moore continued, “there is no real factual dispute as to what they are”—war memorials, in other words, that are therefore protected by the state.”

                    “So stick to the words he specifically uttered in that “fine people” presser. The bad faith press deliberately cast in a false context Trump’s responses made in reply to a barrage of press pile-on.”

                    There were no fine people on both sides. This has already been factually demonstrated.

                    “I do not have any emotional investment in defending Trump. However I do have training in journalism and a background in the newspaper industry, and my issue is with how the media today is smearing Trump, Republicans and conservative voters to the max.”

                    You have an emotional investment in defending Trump. The media and political apparatus are treating Trump with kid gloves. If Obama or Bush did a sliver of what Trump did he would be impeached. The GOP and press after all impeached Clinton because of a blow job.

                    “The lefties who attacked the ‘united’-right group did not have a permit.”

                    Anifia was not there to protest they were there to ensure that Fascism does not become the new normal.

                    “As a group, the black-appareled, masked, baseball bat/bicycle lock-wielding Antifa are thugs. Everywhere. They beat up gay Asian journo Andy Ngo in Portland, among many other unnamed, lesser known victims of Antifa violence”

                    Lol. The same Andy Ngo who was recently outed laughing as a group of Patriot Prayer neo Nazi’s were planning and attack with him around. Yeah this is old news.

                    “If the Antifa thugs had not been hitting his car with their baseball bats, the driver may not have panicked and run over the leftie protestors.”

                    Now you are lying. James Fields sped down a field of protesters. Willfully. You call yourself a journalist ?

                    “I do not view the fatality Ms Heather Heyer as an “innocent person”. She was a leftist outrage activist who chose to be there that day to protest the opposite group. Some of her fellow travelers went there armed with baseball bats and looking for a confrontation.”

                    And you say you’re not emotionally invested ? I get it. You are on the Trump bandwagon for whatever reason. You lay the blame of the victim instead of James Fields. That’s okay. It is what Trump supporters do. I would say do not lie but this is exactly what you people do.

                    “I think it’s silly to invoke David Duke to make the guilt-by-association smear as the tactic can backfire and their own side pula – Democrat rep Ilhan – yang kena.”

                    It not silly because Ilhan does not accept his support and apologized for her anti semititcsm. Trump meanwhile lies and happily accepts the support of racists, while hiding behind his enablers.

                    “It was CNN that provided airtime to Spencer only for their bait to backfire when instead of endorsing the Prez like David Duke, Spencer instead says he does not support Trump. My point is these games (airing Duke, Spencer) that the media plays.”

                    Lol. Yeah they want to know the kind of racist that support Trump. Evidently some raciat do not think he is racist enough. That is a bad thing either way you look at it.

                    Reply
                    • 25. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 3:58 pm

                      Edit to add.

                      Re James Riley who plead guilty to Heather Heyer – Appeaernetly his lawyers asked for leneiency but the prosecuton countered –

                      “Prosecutors countered Fields’ request by stating that avowed anti-Semite and Nazi admirer had shown ‘no remorse’ since the attack. They said the defendant deserved a life sentence for his actions, adding that would help deter others from committing ‘similar acts of domestic terrorism’.

                      The prosecutors also focused on years of documented racist and anti-Semitic behavior by Fields, which they said included keeping a picture of Adolf Hitler on his bedside table. They also said in court documents that he was recorded on a jail phone call making disparaging remarks about Ms Heyer’s mother as recently as last month.”

                      Has anyone else noticed that these fine people always have mental issues which they like to use as a defense ?

                      So he intentionally drove down a group of anti protesters and Helen Ang thinks that Heyer is not innocent because she was there protesting against Neo Nazis, white supremacists like James Fields.

                      https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/24/white-supremacist-begs-judge-not-jail-killing-woman-young-10035078/

                    • 26. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:19 pm

                      Heyer chose to place herself in that place at that time. She’s no innocent.

                      If you’re in Hong Kong today and you joined a street protest, you could be caught in a crackdown by police. There is a risk of injury from mishap or rough treatment.

                      Helen Ang thinks one has to be responsible for one’s decisions in life, and this does not exclude Heyer. I’m not saying she asked to be killed but she’s not exempt from responsibility for choosing to expose herself to risk as Antifa-interrupted events have a track record of violence.

                    • 27. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 4:59 pm

                      I said: “If the Antifa thugs had not been hitting his car with their baseball bats, the driver may not have panicked and run over the leftie protestors.”

                      You responded: “Now you are lying. James Fields sped down a field of protesters. Willfully. You call yourself a journalist?”

                      See video footage. Between seconds 18-24, thugs wielding bats smashed and broke Field’s back windscreen. Admittedly this took place after his car ploughed into the protesters.

                      But was the car attacked before it hit the protesters? James Buchanan, who captioned the still below, says yes. https://prowhiteparty.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/exact-sequence-of-events-for-james-fields-crashing-into-protesters-in-charlottesville/

                      Can you say the driver “willfully” sped on the casualties? He was in a situation surrounded by a screaming violent mob visibly armed with bats. What would a Malaysian driver do caught in the same circumstances?

                  • 28. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 3:44 pm

                    Edit to add.

                    With regards to the argument that these statues was a war memorial , what do you think the reaction would have been if Muslims decided to erect statutes of the 9/11 jihadist in New York ?

                    As it is, some folks sneakily created a rec center which I was opposed to – when I was there – and it caused so much trouble.

                    Oh the aggrieved outrage of partisans . Lol

                    Reply
                    • 29. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:12 pm

                      Muslims are not allowed to make statues, according to strict interpretation by some of their jurists (ahli fiqh).

                  • 30. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 4:36 pm

                    Edit to add.

                    My comments about Robert E. Lee were perhaps too charitable even wrong. I was thinking of someone else. To get a clearer picture of this traitor, readers are encouraged to read the excellent Atlantic article, The Myth of the Kindly General –

                    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

                    Germane to this argument is the Lost Cause narrative put forward by right wing types which the article references-

                    “Lee’s elevation is a key part of a 150-year-old propaganda campaign designed to erase slavery as the cause of the war and whitewash the Confederate cause as a noble one. That ideology is known as the Lost Cause, and as historian David Blight writes, it provided a “foundation on which Southerners built the Jim Crow system.”

                    Furthermore as to the war memorial I mentioned it is the Arlington Cemetery.

                    Readers can go to this link –

                    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-arlington-national-cemetery-came-to-be-145147007/

                    “Appropriating the homestead was perfectly in keeping with the views of Lincoln, Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton, Gen. William T. Sherman and Montgomery Meigs, all of whom believed in waging total war to bring the rebellion to a speedy conclusion. “Make them so sick of war that generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it,” Sherman wrote.”

                    Reply
              • 31. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 8:42 am

                Edit to add

                From the Washington Examiner –

                https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/trump-still-lies-about-very-fine-people-in-charlottesville

                “One need not speculate on what synapses in Trump’s brain led him repeatedly to insist on the presence of many very fine people where none existed. It is an insult to our intelligence, though, and to decency, for him two years later to still insist on it, and to try to make any excuses whatsoever for the white nationalists who were the only ones who openly and deliberately organized their hateful rally.”

                Reply
                • 32. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 10:59 am

                  It is derangement on the part of the press two years on to persist in miscontextualizing “fine people” when the presser transcript proves otherwise.

                  There are plenty of other episodes in which to legitimately criticize Trump, e.g. like when he ‘elbowed’ past the (flummoxed) prime minister of Montenegro during a tour of Nato HQ in 2017.

                  But it is always objectionable when the evil press puts words (in the Trump case, he was not misquoted but mis-contexted) in people’s mouth that they did not say.

                  Reply
                  • 33. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 3:35 pm

                    Derangement , evil , misquoting. You really sure you are not emotionally invested. Trump lies have been exposed over and over again. Nearly everyone around him has been forced to resign or quit because of various scandals.

                    I get that demonizing the media works in some circles but the facts are plain to see. Now what people are doing is smearing facts with BS hoping people will forget.

                    Reply
                    • 34. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:09 pm

                      The American liberal media is evil. I agree wholeheartedly with Trump’s description of them as “the enemy of the people”. The Derangement Syndrome regarding Trump suffered by the Left media is real.

                      I’m not emotionally invested in Trump. Why would you think so? I’ve already explained that it’s my own journalism background that makes me aware of their evil sleights of hand, and today, the majority of the manipulation is directed at Trump.

                      Nonetheless others are not spared. I see the media trying to destroy Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

                      More recently, they’re being petty about Tulsi Gabbard. Silap haribulan, anyone can be their victim. Even you one day.

  • 35. kopisan  |  September 7, 2019 at 9:56 pm

    Arguments about Race and Religion with all intensity is just an excuse. The truth is IMMORALITY of Malaysian Politicians of all shades and colours who make a wealthy living by the use of the gift of the Gab. A fine example is Malaysia’s No 1 Chinese Statesman who became one after 9 May 2018. The inventor of the time-bombs of Malaysia. How come he lost all the fury and fire after 9 May 2019 but full of It before 9 May 2018. It is not Race or Religion which made this tax free politician so. It was his IMMORALITY which even beats lawyers who can lie on either side. How many Malaysians realise that Malaysian politicians have lost all MORALS and now cling on to IMMORALITY. The daily parade of the sworn servants of the Rakyat to the High Court and the expose’ which followed which only a super rocket scientist from Singapore could tot up the huge billions of ringgits stolen as elected representatives of the people, exposed all. Yes ! Until all Malaysian politicians recover their long lost MORALS, only then our beloved Malaysia will return to the calm of peace and harmony of yesteryears..

    Reply
    • 36. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 8, 2019 at 4:29 pm

      “Until all Malaysian politicians recover their long lost MORALS…”

      Why bother they do that?

      Why not just get rid of the whore rotten lot of them, whether or not they recover anything?!

      Reply
  • 37. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:35 pm

    “Heyer chose to place herself in that place at that time. She’s no innocent.”

    James Riley sought the protesters out. He willfully drove his car into the crowd. She didn’t choose to place herself in front of him.

    “If you’re in Hong Kong today and you joined a street protest, you could be caught in a crackdown by police. There is a risk of injury from mishap or rough treatment.”

    Now you are conflating the actions of the state with a racist terrorists

    “Helen Ang thinks one has to be responsible for one’s decisions in life, and this does not exclude Heyer. I’m not saying she asked to be killed but she’s not exempt from responsibility for choosing to expose herself to risk as Antifa-interrupted events have a track record of violence.”

    Helen Ang think that it perfectly justifiable for a Neo Nazi to kill a protester while blaming the anti fascist opposing them. Helen Ang also lied when she claimed that James Riley’s was only attempting to get away from protesters who were swamping his car. He sought them out. He drove into them killing Heyer and injuring a dozen or more others.

    Didn’t you claim as a journalist you were interested in facts ?

    Reply
    • 38. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:03 pm

      I said: “There is a risk of injury from mishap or rough treatment.”

      You responded: “Now you are conflating the actions of the state with a racist terrorists.”

      Putting aside being manhandled by police, the Hallelujah Horde is clashing with pro-Beijing demonstrators. The two rival protest groups are a bodily threat to the other.

      Fu Guohao, reporter for a Beijing-based newspaper, was tied up by a group of masked protesters and then assaulted for about an hour, https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/man-suspected-of-assaulting-global-times-reporter-at-hong-kong-airport-denied-bail

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hong-kong-police-break-up-clashes-between-rival-protesters/ar-AAHgxuj?li=BBnbcA1

      Reply
      • 39. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:09 pm

        “….the Hallelujah Horde is clashing with pro-Beijing demonstrators. The two rival protest groups are a bodily threat to the other.”

        And if it results in murder by either side, it should be condemned not justified, which is what you are doing.

        “Fu Guohao, reporter for a Beijing-based newspaper, was tied up by a group of masked protesters and then assaulted for about an hour,”

        And people should condemn this not attempt to justify the actions of the protesters which is what you are doing with James Riley.

        Reply
        • 40. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:40 pm

          Show me where I justified the death of Heather Heyer, i.e. believing she deserves to die.

          Reply
          • 41. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:33 pm

            Your continuing efforts of blaming her for being there. Your continuing efforts to portray a self confessed white supremacist James Riley as an bystander caught up in circumstances beyond his control

            Reply
            • 42. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:51 pm

              Nowhere in our threads have I portrayed the driver to be an innocent bystander. He chose to be there that day, same as Heather Hayer.

              But just as she didn’t choose to be in the fatal path of his car, he didn’t choose to be suddenly surrounded by a club-wielding mob either.

              Reply
              • 43. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:59 pm

                “Can you say the driver “willfully” sped on the casualties? He was in a situation surrounded by a screaming violent mob visibly armed with bats. What would a Malaysian driver do caught in the same circumstances?”

                You said this upthread.

                “…he didn’t choose to be suddenly surrounded by a club-wielding mob either.”

                He admitted to it. It’s right there in the court reportage. He chose to be there. He chose to mow those protesters down.

                Reply
                • 44. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:43 am

                  I don’t trust the American media and their reports. I’ve already said, they’re evil.

                  Will commit some time to reading up on James Fields’ 2019 pleas in court and return to our discussion later.

                  Reply
                  • 45. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:55 am

                    I’m not alone in my distrust.

                    Half (50%) of Americans say “made up news and info is a very big problem” — Pew Research Center survey, https://www.pewresearch.org/prc_2019-07-22_trust-distrust-in-america_0-07/

                    The percentage who agree about the Fake News phenomenon is even higher among conservatives/Republicans.

                    Reply
                    • 46. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 6:20 am

                      Yeah the GOP should now a thing or two about fake news. Everyone distrust the mainstream media unless it fits with their narratives.

                      This is why we have these bubbles where people only talk to each other when they agree with each other.

                    • 47. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:09 am

                      The Pew Research says half of Americans – this is across the board, not Republicans alone – believe fake news is “a very big problem”. Pew’s survey results are backed by other pollsters such as Gallup, https://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

                      According to Gallup, only “14% of Republicans express trust”. That was the finding reported in 2016. By this year, the percentage would have likely dropped to below ten. Meaning 9 out of every 10 Republican distrust the media.

                      You say “Everyone distrust the mainstream media unless it fits with their narratives”.

                      ‘Everyone’ would be true enough wrt GOP given the 9-out-of-10. The reason would be that liberal media frames patently false narratives like “fine people”.

                      It is the liberals who exist in their own echo chamber. Twitter boss Jack Dorsey in his podcast with Sam Harris revealed that journalists who leaned left hardly followed right-leaning journalists. OTOH, right-leaning journalists followed both their own side and the left-leaning journalists as well.

                      It’s the left (and in Malaysia, the Dapsters) who live in a narrative bubble.

              • 48. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:13 am

                Edit to correct.

                The terrorist name is James Fields not James Riley.

                Reply
                • 49. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:38 am

                  ROTFL.

                  I’ve correctly referred to him as Fields through all our threads.

                  If you can’t even get his name right, what makes you so cocksure that you’ve got the rest of your prognosis correct?

                  Btw, where did you pull ‘Riley’ from?

                  Reply
                  • 50. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 6:18 am

                    When I make mistakes I correct them.

                    You were still presenting a false narrative of Fields even though he has admitted to a crime and plead guilty.

                    Getting the name wrong especially in internet discussion where the written word is the means of communication happens.

                    I have no idea where Riley came from.

                    Reply
                    • 51. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:26 am

                      See my 12.35am reply. I said: “I’ve not kept up with subsequent developments. Will catch up now”, meaning the 2019 court proceedings and promised to “catch up” on reading. https://helenang.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/delicious-doggy-gif/#comment-219407

                      Also see my 12.43am reply, I said: “Will commit some time to reading up on James Fields’ 2019 pleas in court and return to our discussion later.”
                      https://helenang.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/delicious-doggy-gif/#comment-219409

                      How can you accuse me of “still presenting a false narrative of Fields” when twice I’ve admitted to not following the latest in the case, and at midnight merely a few hours ago pledged to “commit some time to reading up“ before commenting further.

                      Details of the Fields’ case is not something I have at my fingertips. You first brought up the Charlottesville car plough only on Friday night. Such unreasonableness as you’re displaying is a hallmark of the Harapan supporter (Malaysia’s own left).

                      I remembered the clubs and sticks hitting his car footage from 2017, and my recall is correct.

          • 52. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:56 pm

            Edit to add.

            While I don’t think you believe that Heyer deserved to die, I think justifying the conduct of James Riley as you have done, even though he has admitted to driving through the crowd, admitted that he did so because of race and creed, making false equivalencies between people fighting racists like James Riley , makes it difficult for anyone to believe that you think of Heyer as anything but how James Riley perceived her.

            Having said that, I think my use of the word “justified” is not appropriate. From what you have written so far maybe “excusable” would be a better fit.

            Reply
        • 53. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:45 pm

          “group of masked protesters“ like Anfifa.

          I have condemned Antifa as violent thugs.

          It is you who is cheering them as defenders of democracy against fascism.

          Reply
          • 54. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:38 pm

            You are making a false equivalency between those fighting fascism – Antifa – and the actions of white supremacists – fascists

            They are defenders of democracy against fascism.

            In other words they were no fine people on the unite the right side or even those protesting the removal of the statue as demonstrated by the Examiner piece.

            Reply
            • 55. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:15 am

              They may call themselves anti fascist but their behaviour is clearly that of thugs.

              Here are videos of their violence at campus events, https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13402

              Here are videos of their acts of vandalism and arson, https://www.dailywire.com/news/20343/timeline-antifa-violence-january-–-august-2017-frank-camp

              More recently, Antifa have been clubbing real innocent bystanders in the street and these incidents reported in conservative media together photos of the bleeding victims.

              Antifa wear black (like Blackshirts), mask and carry baseball bats, sticks and bicycle locks which they use to beat people. Their victims who organize the campus events are merely holding talks and forums, and are not armed.

              One of Antifa’s inadvertent victims was their own leftist professor Allison Stanger of Middlebury College who got a concussion. How are Antifa not fascist?

              Reply
              • 56. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 6:10 am

                “How are Antifa not fascist?”

                Because of who they are fighting against, Thugs like Unite the right, Patriot prayer, any variety of Neo-Nazis and of course your average white supremacists.

                I love the fact that you posts videos without context as if their violence is not justified. As if they violence was not met with violence.

                This is what Andy Ngo did for his publication until he was exposed for the fraud and troll that he is. He did the same thing you are doing now, attempting the dismiss the alt right as innocent bystanders.

                Indeed you are using the same talking points about Antifa as blacked masked club wielding thugs but forgetting to mention that they are fighting fascists club wielding at times state enabled white supremacists.

                As for Allison Stanger lumping in Antifa with the student mob is exactly what the right wing does. For a clearer picture read this –
                https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/28/how-donald-trump-caused-the-middlebury-melee-215195

                Having said that there is no excuse for the mob violence against academics especially those attempting to speak at college events even if some students disagree with what is being said.

                Reply
                • 57. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:43 am

                  re: “any variety of Neo-Nazis and of course your average white supremacists.”

                  OIC. White supremacists are your commonplace, garden variety Americans. And you would say the same about Malays?

                  re: “you posts videos without context as if their violence is not justified.“

                  Antifa violence is justified. Gottit.

                  re: “exposed for the fraud and troll that he is”

                  Victim shaming. Gottit — blame the victim if he’s not a leftie.

                  re: “lumping in Antifa with the student mob”

                  Both the Antifa outsiders and its own students perpetrated violence at Middlebury. The Politico article you linked said as much.

                  Reply
                  • 58. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:59 am

                    “OIC. White supremacists are your commonplace, garden variety Americans. And you would say the same about Malays?”

                    I never said such about Americans why would I say that about Malays ?

                    Stop deflecting.

                    “Antifa violence is justified. Gottit.”

                    Good because when the Allies fought those Nazi fascists they didn’t only use foul language.

                    “Victim shaming. Gottit — blame the victim if he’s not a leftie.”

                    Victim shaming is exposing his collaboration with the alt right and laughing while they plan to commit a crime ?

                    “Both the Antifa outsiders and its own students perpetrated violence at Middlebury. The Politico article you linked said as much.”

                    Actually it is a little more nuanced than that but I get your point. No point differentiating between kinds of anti fascists.

                    Reply
                    • 59. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 9:52 am

                      re: “I never said such about Americans why would I say that about Malays?”

                      Your words: “Thugs like Unite the right, Patriot prayer, any variety of Neo-Nazis and of course your average white supremacists.” So the ‘average’ white supremacist in Amerika is not the commonplace American? There’s much ado about “Malay supremacists” in Malaysiakini.

                      re: “Actually it is a little more nuanced than that but I get your point. No point differentiating between kinds of anti fascists.”

                      The url of article you linked says “How Donald Trump caused the Middlebury melee”. Your lot sure got a lot of nuance, everything must be The Donald’s fault.

                      https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/28/how-donald-trump-caused-the-middlebury-melee-215195

  • 60. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    “See video footage. Between seconds 18-24, thugs wielding bats smashed and broke Field’s back windscreen. Admittedly this took “place after his car ploughed into the protesters.”

    Yes after he sought them out. He plead guilty to seeking them out. Now you are attempting to lie about factual incidents. When someone is trying to mow you down, you react.

    “But was the car attacked before it hit the protesters? James Buchanan, who captioned the still below, says yes.”

    James Buchanan is spinning as you are.

    “Can you say the driver “willfully” sped on the casualties? He was in a situation surrounded by a screaming violent mob visibly armed with bats. What would a Malaysian driver do caught in the same circumstances?”

    Yes because its right there is court testimony and he admitted to the crimes. He went there to demonstrate and brawl. He was not there as someone caught in tragic circumstances.

    Reply
    • 61. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:53 pm

      First you accuse me of “lying” about the car hit being with baseball bats.

      I’ve provided video evidence.

      Now you claim I’m “attempting to lie about factual incidents”. What is your factual here? That Fields sought out the protestors with intent. If yes, please provide source and link, and we can discuss further.

      James Buchanan claimed Field’s car was hit by a bat before the ploughing moment. He provided a still to back his claim. I’ll take him at his word at face value. Prove him and his screenshot wrong. In frame is a Ruptly logo. You can always locate the original Ruptly news footage to check/compare if you believe Buchanan is spinning.

      Reply
      • 62. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:00 pm

        “Now you claim I’m “attempting to lie about factual incidents”. What is your factual here? That Fields sought out the protestors with intent. If yes, please provide source and link, and we can discuss further.”

        Here is actual court reportage –

        “During the trial, prosecutors sought to demonstrate that Fields’ actions were premeditated. In one instance, they used a meme that he’d shared in May 2017 of a car ramming into protesters as evidence of his intent.

        But in closing arguments Thursday, Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Nina-Alice Antony urged the jury to hone-in on what she believed was the question at the center of the case: “What was in his mind when he flew into the crowd?” She noted that the evidence showed Fields had idled in his vehicle before accelerating into the group of protesters. At that moment, Antony told the jury, he “seized his opportunity to make the Instagram post a reality.”

        https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvqe93/neo-nazi-james-fields-convicted-of-first-degree-murder-in-death-of-heather-heyer

        Now the point of this is that you believe James is some sort of innocent never once drawing attention to the fact that he is an avowed Neo Nazi .

        Indeed you attempted – with your Malaysian driver example – to paint him an someone caught up in circumstances beyond his control.

        So yes, either you are lying or spinning. I have no idea why.

        Reply
        • 63. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:37 pm

          Where is the sentence in the Vice article that says Fields deliberately sought out the protestors to mow them down, i.e. premeditated intent, as you’ve claimed?

          The prosecutor told the jury that Fields “seized his opportunity to make the Instagram post a reality”. Prosecutors can argue any theory and here she is reading his mind. Who’s to say her mind-reading is correct albeit she seems to have convinced a majority of the 12 jurors.

          So Fields shared a ‘kill’ meme which was an attempt at black humour. Malaysians share memes all the time and some of them imagining a nasty plight befalling Najib and Rosmah.

          Would a Malaysian social media junkie “seize his opportunity to make his [shared on FB meme] a reality” if given the real-life chance to – say – detonate C4 and blow up Rosmah to bits as depicted (hypothetically) in a meme cartoon?

          Sharing an apposite meme is weak evidence for your insistence that “He plead guilty to seeking them out”. Where is the court quote where Fields admitted to deliberately seeking out activists like Heyer in order to run them over with his car?

          Reply
          • 64. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 11:40 pm

            Refer to my edits from the Fox news piece –

            James Alex Fields Jr., 21, admitted to one count of a hate crime act resulting in the death of 32-year-old Heather Heyer, and another 28 counts of hate crime acts causing bodily injury. Prosecutors said Fields admitted that he drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters at a “Unite The Right” rally on Aug. 12, 2017, “because of the actual and perceived race, color, national origin and religion of its members.”

            https://www.foxnews.com/us/charlottesville-attack-suspect-james-fields-jr-pleads-guilty-to-federal-hate-crime-charges

            Reply
            • 65. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:22 am

              His car hit people. Yes, he was behind the wheel. You keep insisting he sought them out in order to mow them down.

              The shooters who killed congregants at Christchurch mosque, Pittsburgh synagogue, Charleston black church took assault rifles with intent to kill. They left manifestos stating their purpose.

              If Fields had wanted to kill, he would have rented a truck. More effective.

              Reply
              • 66. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 6:14 am

                “You keep insisting he sought them out in order to mow them down.”

                I don’t keep insisting this, he admitted that he sought them out –

                James Alex Fields Jr., 21, admitted to one count of a hate crime act resulting in the death of 32-year-old Heather Heyer, and another 28 counts of hate crime acts causing bodily injury. Prosecutors said Fields admitted that he drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters at a “Unite The Right” rally on Aug. 12, 2017, “because of the actual and perceived race, color, national origin and religion of its members.”

                Manifestos are not the only source of motive. There is admission in case you were not aware which is what Fields admitted to doing. Intentionally seeking them out.

                Reply
              • 67. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:14 am

                I keep insisting nothing. He admitted to seeking them out. He admitted to seeking them out because of the clashed that happened. He admitted to seeking them out and running them over with a car because who they were.

                You keep insisting that he could have done more damage but this really isn’t the point.

                I’m sure if he rented a truck you would have found a way to deflect from his action as you are doing now.

                Is this how you rely on your journalistic background ?

                Reply
  • 68. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:41 pm

    “Muslims are not allowed to make statues, according to strict interpretation by some of their jurists (ahli fiqh).”

    Yeah but this is not an impediment for some kind of memorials. They are sneaky that way. The ones who want to prove a point.

    Reply
  • 69. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    “The American liberal media is evil. I agree wholeheartedly with Trump’s description of them as “the enemy of the people”. The Derangement Syndrome regarding Trump suffered by the Left media is real.”

    You also agree with most Nazi propaganda I suppose, which is where he stole his “enemy of the people” BS. The only derangement I see are from people defending this guy.

    “I’m not emotionally invested in Trump. Why would you think so? I’ve already explained that it’s my own journalism background that makes me aware of their evil sleights of hand, and today, the majority of the manipulation is directed at Trump.”

    You are using the same tropes as this guy. Liberal outrage, evil media and all that nonsense. It is a pity. You do how to present and argue a point without resorting to this kind of nonsense. I have no idea how someone like you could fall for this charlatan.

    “Nonetheless others are not spared. I see the media trying to destroy Justice Brett Kavanaugh.”

    Kavanugh is destroying himself. His”i like beer ” performance was pitiful.

    “More recently, they’re being petty about Tulsi Gabbard. Silap haribulan, anyone can be their victim. Even you one day.”

    As opposed to the right wing press ? Look the media is what it is. It is partisan. I would have thought that someone like you would be cogniznat of that and attempt to present a rational argument instead of spinning for this guy.

    I never understood why you are basing your critique of Harapan on the American context. There was this right wing Malay website before the election which did this. Probably Najib funded but still, a really dumb way to go about highlighting the failure of Harapan.

    Reply
    • 70. Helen Ang  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:12 pm

      Both sides are partisan but the biased right wing press is still any day better than deranged liberal media.

      Derangement is the context for American leftist press. I do not believe Malaysian media is evil. Lucky for us, Malaysian media is not deranged either.

      Reply
  • 71. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:04 pm

    Edit to add –

    James Alex Fields Jr., 21, admitted to one count of a hate crime act resulting in the death of 32-year-old Heather Heyer, and another 28 counts of hate crime acts causing bodily injury. Prosecutors said Fields admitted that he drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters at a “Unite The Right” rally on Aug. 12, 2017, “because of the actual and perceived race, color, national origin and religion of its members.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/charlottesville-attack-suspect-james-fields-jr-pleads-guilty-to-federal-hate-crime-charges

    This post is for clarity. For your readers to understand, the kind of man you are defending.

    I have no idea why you are doing this.

    Reply
  • 72. Conrad  |  September 14, 2019 at 6:06 pm

    Edit to add –

    During his state trial, prosecutors said Fields — he described himself on social media as an admirer of Hitler — drove his car directly into a crowd of counterprotesters because he was angry after witnessing earlier clashes between the two groups.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/charlottesville-attack-suspect-james-fields-jr-pleads-guilty-to-federal-hate-crime-charges

    Again there is no dispute here with regards to the facts beyond how some people continue to push the false narrative that he was merely defending himself.

    Reply
  • 73. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:20 am

    “The reason would be that liberal media frames patently false narratives like “fine people”.”

    Not at all. This is what the right wing media does attempt to deflect from Trump’s racism and lies. You are doing here. The examiner piece which is hardly left wing proves that Trump’s lies and his detractors deflections are what is fake news.

    “Twitter boss Jack Dorsey in his podcast with Sam Harris revealed that journalists who leaned left hardly followed right-leaning journalists. OTOH, right-leaning journalists followed both their own side and the left-leaning journalists as well.”

    Well that may be true of some journalist but I would hardly consider this proof that right wing folks do not have their own bubbles. It is a fairly ridiculous observation to make because it does not explain your ignorance of James Fields but yet you spout out all these talking points in his defense.

    Reply
    • 74. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:32 am

      You’ve shown more ignorance of James Fields. You misidentified him.

      I recall viewing the club/bat assault on his car video around the time the incident happened. I’ve not followed his hearings this year. Apparent he was charged in both state and federal court.

      Reply
      • 75. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:37 am

        I brought him up. I cited links. So what if I used the wrong name. I admitted the mistake. Now you are trying to make something of it after accusing me of atypical Harapan behavior.

        Are we getting desperate ?

        You claim to rely on your journalistic background but you are not up to date on the man you say was at the wrong place at the wrong time ?

        Reply
        • 76. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:46 am

          No, I’ve not followed the James Fields case in court since the initial uproar. How many Malaysians do you know who have?

          Reply
          • 77. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:52 am

            But how many Malaysians like you would defend the terrorist without knowing the facts. I mean you posted youtube videos and everything and even now, make these ridiculous deflections about his conduct.

            C’mon you talk about Trump, and reference the right wing blogsphere all the time.

            You are hardly the average Malaysian

            Reply
            • 78. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 9:35 am

              I posted the video that proved I was not lying when I said the car was hit with baseball bats.

              If you had not accused me of lying, I would not have bothered to dig up that video. What kind of people simply accuse like that?

              Yes, admittedly I ‘defended’ Fields without keeping up with his latest court plea, but you ‘accused’ him without being aware his car was clubbed. We’re Even Stevens so there’s no need for the pot to be calling the kettle.

              Without Trump to trigger the liberal media, most of the world would not have realized how deranged are the far leftists who staff these media.

              I do not “reference the right wing blogsphere all the time” (again, simply accuse). Name me which right-wing blog I’ve referenced.

              Regular readers know I sometimes link Al-Jazeera, DW (German), RT (Russian) and France 24. In short, I would avoid American sources if possible.

              Reply
              • 79. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:07 pm

                No you posted a video claiming that he was defending himself against a mob attack.

                Now you claim that you were ignorant of the actual case. Now if you relied on your journalistic background, surely you would have done your due diligence, right ?

                We are not even Stevens. I could care less if his car was clubbed because he was there to kill people. He admitted this, Why would I care if his car was clubbed in a commission of a crime ? LOL

                Trump does not trigger the media. People are just laughing at him and his supporters. But your right wing talking point of a vast liberal media is noted. Even though Murdoch, the Koch brothers and the rest fund the right wing behemoth.

                You reference the right wing blogopshere all the time. From your posts about the liberal media or Europe is going to sink in its leftydom.

                I am a regular reader. I have acknowledged that yours in one of the most free speech blogs out there.

                Reply
                • 80. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 1:36 pm

                  re: No you posted a video claiming that he was defending himself against a mob attack.

                  Here’s the timeline.
                  ________________________________________________________

                  This is the first mention (but unnamed) made of Fields. You said: “Although the white supremacist did manage to kill an innocent person.” Time you posted: 8.01am Sept 14 (yesterday morning).

                  My response to your 8 o’clock comment. I said (Fields also unnamed): “If the Antifa thugs had not been hitting his car with their baseball bats, the driver may not have panicked and run over the leftie protestors”. At 10.49am

                  Your reply at 3.31pm: “Now you are lying. James Fields sped down a field of protesters. Willfully. You call yourself a journalist?”

                  My reply at 4.59pm: “See video footage. Between seconds 18-24, thugs wielding bats smashed and broke Field’s back windscreen.”

                  From the timeline, it’s clear that I posted video only in response to your smear an hour-and-a-half earlier accusing me of “lying”.

                  _________________________________________________________

                  re: Now you claim that you were ignorant of the actual case. Now if you relied on your journalistic background, surely you would have done your due diligence, right ?

                  I was not aware of his 2019 guilty plea in court. The verdict link you provided was one year-and-seven/half months after the 2017 incident. Likewise, the general public may have heard that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed masterminded the 9/11 terror attacks. How many people are aware that he will be standing trial only in 2021? https://nypost.com/2019/08/30/9-11-plotter-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-will-face-trial-in-2021/

                  I would have done my due diligence if James Fields was the topic I wanted to write up. As it is, the guy was brought up by you in a comments thread.

                  re: “I could care less if his car was clubbed because he was there to kill people. He admitted this, Why would I care if his car was clubbed in a commission of a crime ? LOL”

                  Quite.

                  re: “Even though Murdoch, the Koch brothers and the rest fund the right wing behemoth.”

                  The Democratic National Committee (DNC) barred Murdoch’s Fox from hosting any of its party presidential debates. As for the Koch Brothers, their TIME magazine is fully on board the ‘Smear Trump’ bandwagon.

                  re: “You reference the right wing blogopshere all the time.”

                  You keep saying this. As I’ve requested previously, just name one right-wing blog I’m supposed to have referenced.

                  re: From your posts about the liberal media or Europe is going to sink in its leftydom.”

                  I’m always happy to number crunch election stats. The right-ward drift of Europe’s newly elected governments is a visible and interesting trend.

                  re: I am a regular reader. I have acknowledged that yours in one of the most free speech blogs out there.

                  I’m more free speech than the DNC that won’t allow their presidential candidates to debate on Fox.

                  Reply
  • 81. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 8:35 am

    “Such unreasonableness as you’re displaying is a hallmark of the Harapan supporter (Malaysia’s own left).”

    Really you are the one who claimed that you relied on your journalistic background. That facts matter. Yet you were not up uptodate on important case in the Charlottsville riots but had no problem defending the man who killed Heather Heyer.

    Now when you do know about James Fileds, you deflect by saying that he could have killed more people and dismissing his own guilty plea.

    Then you throw this Harapan supporter, nonsense when your deflections break down.

    Again, tell me how you are not emotionally invested in defending Trump and how you rely on your journalistic background ?

    Reply
    • 82. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 9:23 am

      I confess I’m not up to date. It’s only just after scrolling a short while ago that I learned his cases were heard both in state and federal courts.

      You were the one who first brought up James specifically, so although we’re both ignorant, I’m willing to grant that here you might be less ignorant than me.

      Yes, facts matter. FACT: His car was hit with (baseball) bats. That’s what I correctly said. Without checking the facts, you immediately called me a liar for stating this detail.

      There are two different frames of events — (1) the car ploughing on that fatal day, and (2) James Fields’ subsequent hearings and sentencing. Just because I’m not keeping abreast of (2) doesn’t mean that my memory of (1) is invalid.

      About the Harapan supporter profiling, you people spit out the description “right wing” as if it was venom landed on your tongue. You allege that I’m repeating right-wing “talking points”.

      Antifa wear black. Fact. You call it a talking point. Antifa wear masks. Fact. You call it a talking point. Antifa carry baseball bats. Fact. You call it a talking point. They brutalize, vandalize and commit arson. Fact. You call it a talking point. You don’t really have to belong to any wing to acknowledge plain facts.

      From these facts, I see them as thugs. You say I’m “right wing” because I view Antifa as thuggish.

      56% of Americans surveyed by Gallup in Aug-Oct 2017 consider fake news to “a very serious threat“ to democracy.
      https://kf-site-production.s3.amazonaws.com/media_elements/files/000/000/130/original/Knight-Gallup_Survey_Topline_FINAL.pdf

      Trump is the biggest victim of fake news. One does not have to be emotionally invested in the man to regard the liberal media – e.g. CNN, NYT – as suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

      Antifa are the street enforcers of the ‘liberal’ groupthink. Reporting them as defenders of democracy is fake news.

      Reply
      • 83. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 15, 2019 at 10:37 am

        Anyone following cricket here?

        Reply
        • 84. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 11:23 am

          Hahaha.

          Just to let you know, some of your comments have not passed moderation because your language is too harsh, profane and your views on religion might get my blog into trouble. It’s not just the Islamic authorities that are sensitive; the Christian archbishops are hair-trigger too.

          Reply
          • 85. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 15, 2019 at 7:17 pm

            “…not just the Islamic authorities that are sensitive; the Christian archbishops are hair-trigger too”

            You mean to say they are not exactly paragons of tolerance?

            Can’t let it go, can’t forgive?

            Why do mere mortals, usually worse than we are, take it upon themselves to act for their deities all when they cannot come up with something as simple as an email from up the sky proving their divine sponsorship.

            Or show a sign that their deities have indeed chosen them to be some kind of middle-person (used to be “middlemen”) authorised to act on his/her/it’s behalf.

            A friend used to show off stacks of toast with the face of Christ clearly burnt on them, and making out he was forever blessed. I thought the sinful creature spent his time using a soldering iron to create his heavenly art till one day he told me he bought one of these from an online shop:

            Instead of mere words than sticks and stones may break their bones, the quality or lack of it of some of our guys in white bedsheets or those with bandages on their heads is such that they are hardly any bet to face hungry lions on behalf of any deity!

            And what’s happened to leaving it till Judgement Day, eh?

            All when it is a hallmark of Malaysian “M” for Motivation to leave everything till nothing ever gets done while everything needs doing some time like months or years or decades ago.

            It seems the self-righteous are good at acting pious, looking religious, love acting the part, act out selective outrage, bitch and rage about the least important of anything!

            Frankly, if any side is pious, religious, and a little bit of all the rest of it, there would never be any of the issue that constantly comes up the pursuit of which more exposes the lack of faith, devotion, tolerance, honesty, love, etc among these Gawd forsaken moaning minnies than anything else worth a depreciating sen in “M” for Malaysia.

            “your language is too harsh, profane”

            Wtf are you talking about?!

            I add colour to what I write, you should occasionally add a bit of my spice to your blog and not be tied to having to run a Sunday school just because it is so ordained by some irrelevant and irreverend old phart hypocrites, Amen!

            Reply
            • 86. Paul Wolfobitch  |  September 15, 2019 at 7:37 pm

              Paddy was wanderingaround the back in of the church one Sunday during donation drive.

              There were all sorts of stalls set up to deprive the fairground’s visitors of their money, and Paddy got interested in a game where he could get three darts for RM5 which he could use to hit targets and win prizes.

              Paddy tried for a bottle of whisky, aimed and fired off at a target.

              He missed. He swore and cursed, “Fc*k” Missed!” and all that.

              Then he took his second dart, threw it, and missed again.

              Paddy swore and cursed even more, “Fc*k”! Fc*k” Missed” and all that.

              Then someone tapped him on his shoulder, it was the priest, and Holy Joe said “My son, it is sinful to swear, your Heavenly Father hears that and he does not like that, he will send a bolt of lightning and strike you dead on the spot!” (If you have come across priests in the old country, meaning Ireland, they do talk like that, not every priest is a Father Ted!)

              Paddy apologised, said he won’t do it again.

              The priest left, Paddy took his last dart, threw it, missed again.

              Again, Paddy swore and cursed, effing all over the place.

              Just then, it darkened, some clouds opened up, there was loud thunder, and a bolt of lightning came flashing down and hit a spot a couple feet from Paddy, nearly killing him.

              There was a hush.

              Then a booming voice came down from the sky.

              “PHC*K!!! MISSED!!!

              Reply
      • 87. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:00 pm

        “I confess I’m not up to date. It’s only just after scrolling a short while ago that I learned his cases were heard both in state and federal courts.”

        Yeah but that didn’t stop you from making a case that he was an innocent bystander caught up in an angry mob. Your Malaysian driver example, if you remember.

        “You were the one who first brought up James specifically, so although we’re both ignorant, I’m willing to grant that here you might be less ignorant than me.”

        I not ignorant of the case . In fact beyond the gaffe of forgetting this scumbag’s name I was pretty sure of my facts, unlike you.

        “Yes, facts matter. FACT: His car was hit with (baseball) bats. That’s what I correctly said. Without checking the facts, you immediately called me a liar for stating this detail.”

        And facts are useless without context. You claimed he was caught up in circumstances beyond his control. Attacked by an angry mob. He wasn’t. He was there – he admitted it – to drive through innocent people.

        “There are two different frames of events — (1) the car ploughing on that fatal day, and (2) James Fields’ subsequent hearings and sentencing. Just because I’m not keeping abreast of (2) doesn’t mean that my memory of (1) is invalid.”

        No there are no two different frames of events because James Field’s used a vehicle to kill a person. Now there wasn’t any other event where someone used a car to kill people hence this idea that you were not keeping abreast of the situation is ludicrous esp since you claim to rely on your journalistic background.

        “About the Harapan supporter profiling, you people spit out the description “right wing” as if it was venom landed on your tongue. You allege that I’m repeating right-wing “talking points”.

        You are repeating right wing talking points. You don’t have to be a Harapan supporter to say that . As you said the average Malaysian would not keep up with this case, so why would an average Harapan supporter ? The only reason you would think this is because you have framed this using the American right/left wing context.

        “Antifa wear black. Fact. You call it a talking point. Antifa wear masks. Fact. You call it a talking point. Antifa carry baseball bats. Fact. You call it a talking point. They brutalize, vandalize and commit arson. Fact. You call it a talking point. You don’t really have to belong to any wing to acknowledge plain facts.”

        Yeah these are talking points esp when you ignore the forces who brutalize, vandalize and commit arson that Antifa fights against. There’s a reason why white supremacy terrorism is the biggest threat in America.

        This comes from the FBI and the state security apparatus but you blather on about Antifa like all right wing pundits. Which is kind of strange because you are Malaysian.

        “From these facts, I see them as thugs. You say I’m “right wing” because I view Antifa as thuggish”

        I view you as right wing because you espouse the same rhetoric. Left wing outrage for instance. Clear give away.

        “56% of Americans surveyed by Gallup in Aug-Oct 2017 consider fake news to “a very serious threat“ to democracy.”

        Depends on what they consider fake news.

        “Trump is the biggest victim of fake news. One does not have to be emotionally invested in the man to regard the liberal media – e.g. CNN, NYT – as suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

        So he and his enablers say. The problem is what he considers fake news and the numerous fact checked lies he says. The only people suffering from Trump derangement syndrome – a right wing talking point – are the people trying to defend him.

        “Antifa are the street enforcers of the ‘liberal’ groupthink. Reporting them as defenders of democracy is fake news.”

        Actually they go after racists, fascists and your garden variety white supremacists. Good for them. Ignoring who they scarp with is exactly the kind of fake news that right wingers peddle.

        Reply
        • 88. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 2:01 pm

          re: “Yeah but that didn’t stop you from making a case that he was an innocent bystander caught up in an angry mob. Your Malaysian driver example, if you remember.”

          I did NOT portray Fields as an innocent bystander. On the contrary, I explicitly stated, “He chose to be there that day, same as Heather Hayer.” https://helenang.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/delicious-doggy-gif/#comment-219400

          I said “Malaysian driver” because we’re Malaysians. An ordinary driver of any nationality would be intimidated too when surrounded by a mob unless the driver comes from uniform service background.

          re: “In fact beyond the gaffe of forgetting this scumbag’s name I was pretty sure of my facts, unlike you.”

          You were unaware of the fact that his car was being hit with baseball bats. But we’re going in circles.

          re: Now there wasn’t any other event where someone used a car to kill people hence this idea that you were not keeping abreast of the situation is ludicrous esp since you claim to rely on your journalistic background.

          I said I wasn’t keeping abreast with his 2019 court case. The ordinary public will be aware of the ‘event’ (planes crashing into tower/car crashing into Charlottesville mob) but most would not be aware of the latest in the hijackers’ trial. Your insistence reeks of desperate spinning.

          re: “You are repeating right wing talking points. You don’t have to be a Harapan supporter to say that.”

          And one does not have to be a Trump supporter to point out that the liberal media is smearing him.

          re: “you blather on about Antifa like all right wing pundits. Which is kind of strange because you are Malaysian.”

          It is equally strange to come across a Malaysian so passionately defending Antifa.

          re: “I view you as right wing because you espouse the same rhetoric. Left wing outrage for instance. Clear give away.”

          The Hong Kong protesters who assaulted the China reporter also wore black and face masks. Antifa-ism has spread its wings to Asia.

          re: “The only people suffering from Trump derangement syndrome – a right wing talking point – are the people trying to defend him.”

          You’re displaying symptoms of TDS. Sufferers are aplenty all around the world.

          re: “Actually they go after racists, fascists and your garden variety white supremacists. Good for them. Ignoring who they scarp with is exactly the kind of fake news that right wingers peddle.”

          It is genuinely mind-boggling to me that a Malaysian would defend and support Antifa.

          Reply
  • 89. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    “Your words: “Thugs like Unite the right, Patriot prayer, any variety of Neo-Nazis and of course your average white supremacists.” So the ‘average’ white supremacist in Amerika is not the commonplace American? There’s much ado about “Malay supremacists” in Malaysiakini.”

    Again where did I say Americans ? Why would you bring in Malay supremacy into this or Mkini ? I get your deflections but what exactly are you trying to imply I said ?

    “The url of article you linked says “How Donald Trump caused the Middlebury melee”. Your lot sure got a lot of nuance, everything must be The Donald’s fault.”

    Well I was talking about the variety of anti fascists groups but I guess you have a point about the title. Yo go, girl. Show my lot whose not a spouting right wing talking points.

    Reply
    • 90. Helen Ang  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:46 pm

      re: ”Again where did I say Americans?”

      Oh come on. We’ve been talking about Charlottesville in Virginia, Middlebury in Vermont, Portland (Andy Ngo’s hometown) in Oregon. These are American cities where Antifa ran riot. If not Americans, were you referencing Swedish white supremacists?

      re: “Why would you bring in Malay supremacy into this or Mkini?”

      In mKini where you, I and some of our regular blog commenters hang out, “(Malay) far right” is treated to the same vitriol as “(American) right wing”. Likewise the Malays are labeled supremacists “Ketuanan Melayu” in the same way “white supremacists” are hated on.

      Actually, these whites – outside of Spencer’s gang – are neither “supremacists” nor neo-Nazis. They’re the “average” Joe whom Trump calls “fine people”.

      Reply
  • 91. Conrad  |  September 15, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    OK you know what. I basically thread jacked this thread with this Trump issue.

    I’ll leave it at that.

    Reply

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