Pesanan Persekutuan Kristian M’sia kepada gereja-gereja berhubung PRU

July 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm 66 comments

Persekutuan Kristian Malaysia (CFM) mengedarkan sepucuk surat bertarikh 18 Julai 2012 kepada gereja-gereja dan penganut Kristian seluruh negara berhubung pilihanraya umum ke-13 akan datang.

Surat yang ditulis atas nama Bishop Datuk Ng Moon Hing, pengerusi Christian Federation of Malaysia, menyeru umat Kristian agar “mengundi dengan bijak”.

Ia boleh dibaca dalam bahasa Melayu di sini — CFM/BM

Versi bahasa Inggeris discreenshot di bawah dari laman National Evangelical Christian Fellowship (NECF).

Surat itu menuntut supaya pemilih mengundi sebuah kerajaan yang akan membentuk

(“Sebuah negara di mana kebebasan agama merangkumi kebebasan untuk
menganut, mengamal dan menyebarkan agama di mana ia dibenarkan
berkembang tanpa sebarang pembatasan yang tidak wajar dari undang-undang, penegahan ataupun larangan.”)

Bersambung:

Bishop’s letter: Christians beating around the bush

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Entry filed under: Evangelis. Tags: , , , , .

Warga bukan Melayu, kalau keadaan sebaliknya bagaimana? Bishop’s letter: Christians beating around the bush

66 Comments Add your own

  • 1. jason  |  July 26, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Will some true blue reporters ask the CFM and NECF some straight and tough questions: Did you or did you not propagate the Gospel to ………….? And let’s hear some straight and honest answers from pastors and christian leaders.

    Reply
  • 2. hipokritisme  |  July 26, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    herantak nak pulak guna ALLAH, kata satu tuhan :P

    Reply
  • 3. I hate n'sync  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Obviously, the Christian Federation of Malaysia is asking Malaysian voters to vote in a Government that will amend the relevant articles under the Federal Constitution of Malaysia so that they can PROPAGATE Christianity “without undue curtailment from the law, restrictions or even prohibition”.

    Considering that the law only prohibits religious propagation among Malays = Muslims, I would like to see how the Bishop intends to interprete himself out of this. He is either misleading his flock by claiming there is no religious freedom in Malaysia, or he is trying to remove the Constitutional barrier that bars proselytization among Malays other than Islam.

    I know the real interest is spreading the gospel for Other Bumiputeras, but we shall see if anyone picks this up, shan’t we?

    Reply
    • 4. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:27 pm

      the law also makes it difficult for christian to build church, thats why many are under sdn bhd name. the law also tried to prohibit use of allah and bahasa melayu for bumiputra christians

      Reply
      • 5. I hate n'sync  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:39 pm

        Yes, I am sure the churches are bursting at the seams. So are the temples, tokongs and what not.

        Point is Dave, does the good Bishop understand what he is saying by propagation without curtailment, restrictions and prohibition?

        Reply
      • 6. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:48 pm

        A nation where religious freedom to profess, practice and propagate one’s religion is allowed to flourish without undue curtailment from the law, restrictions or even prohibition.

        ahem, lets understand the word ‘undue':

        un·due
           [uhn-doo, -dyoo] Show IPA
        adjective
        1. unwarranted; excessive: undue haste.
        2. inappropriate; unjustifiable; improper: undue influence.
        3. not owed or currently payable.

        Reply
        • 7. Helen Ang  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:02 pm

          Since Pakatan Rakyat claims that it represents the voice of the people, then take the issue to the rakyat lah to amend “unwarranted”, “excessive”, “inappropriate” and “unjustifiable” laws.

          After all, the voter segment supporting Pakatan are the most principled and the most ethical of people. So why would these paragons of democracy want to support such unjust and oppressive laws, right?

          Laws can be repealed. Najib is doing that with the ISA, Sedition Act and a few others that the people have long objected to.

          DUMC happened in S’gor where Pakatan forms the state govt with a strong majority in the House.

          Teresa Kok is a Christian and senior exco equivalent to deputy menteri besar. Other S’gor state assemblymen are notably Christian evangelists who preach everywhere, and even quote the Quran and Hadith as well as making the masjid and surau their second home.

          If they feel that the current laws – remember that Religion, like land, is under state control – are unfair then change the laws lah. After all, they have the House majority to pass amendment bills.

          Plus the Pakatan Christian politicians claim they are warmly received by the Muslim communities. They also claim that their efforts to forge inter-faith harmony have been lovingly embraced by the Malays.

          If this is the case, then I’m sure the residents of S’gor would give their full backing to their Pakatan representatives to remedy all these current repressive practices that Dave is talking about.

          Reply
      • 8. I hate n'sync  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:34 pm

        Well Dave, since the argument is whether “undue” means “inappropriate” (mild) or “excessive” (hot), I suppose we are all jumping over nothing?

        Yeah, vote wisely here means that either PR or BN is the one who creates all this “undue” curtailments.

        But to explain the grammatical precision of that sentence will be showing how inept your English is, or the Bishop’s.

        To quote:

        “A nation where religious freedom to profess, practice and propagate one’s religion is allowed to flourish without undue curtailment from the law, restrictions or even prohibition.”

        “A nation where [religious freedom] to profess, practice and propagate one’s religion [is allowed] to flourish without 1. undue curtailment from the law, 2. restrictions or even 3. prohibition.”

        So my dear Dave, basic sentence deconstruction, it is either:

        a. without undue curtailment from the law, without undue curtailment from restrictions, or without undue curtailment from prohibition.

        OR

        b. without undue curtailment from the law, without restrictions,
        or without prohibition.

        You must be right, the Bishop is just concerned about excessive suppression by law and regulations. He was JUST worried about “undue curtailment” in the laws, restrictions and prohibitions. So what inappropriately suppresive laws, restrictions and prohibitions he is trying to change to improve religious freedom in Malaysia?

        Which that brings us the BM version of this beautiful quote:

        “Sebuah negara di mana kebebasan agama merangkumi kebebasan untuk menganut, mengamal dan menyebarkan agama di mana ia dibenarkan berkembang tanpa sebarang pembatasan yang tidak wajar dari undang-undang, penegahan ataupun larangan.”

        So, is the offending article in the Constitution a “pembatasan yang tidak wajar”? It doesn’t say pembatasan yang keterlaluan ataupun oppresif. It says “wajar”. What kind of LARANGAN is there that is limiting the religious freedom of Christians in Malaysia?

        We have Malay language bibles, no? Is there a LARANGAN membina gereja in Malaysia? If some words were gazetted to be used exclusively by Muslims, is that the restrictions you want to see removed? The Church is now a cunning linguist champion too?

        Reply
    • 9. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 8:21 pm

      hey, maybe you are the one jumping over nothing. you claimed the bishop said “propagation without curtailment, restrictions and prohibition…” while missing out the word ‘undue’, which gives a whole different meaning. i merely corrected you.

      quote: “We have Malay language bibles, no? Is there a LARANGAN membina gereja in Malaysia? If some words were gazetted to be used exclusively by Muslims, is that the restrictions you want to see removed?”

      malay bibles, yes, but there are cases where they have been siezed and some have called for it to be banned.

      as for the LARANGAN membina gereja in Malaysia and other whatnot..

      http://www.google.com/search?q=orang+asli+church+demolished

      as for non orang asli, getting approval to build new church or expand is quite difficult. A lot of them open new branches in shoplots due to this restriction.

      Reply
      • 10. I hate n'sync  |  July 26, 2012 at 9:13 pm

        Dave, the Bishop cannot be wrong, no? He specifically mentioned laws, restrictions and prohibition that led to inappropriate suppression / undue curtailment. So what exactly are these laws, restrictions and prohibition?

        Cases of bible seizure were addressed by the Government. The real argument, of course, centered around the use of Allah. Since 1988 in 10 states in Peninsular Malaysia, an enactment to control and restrict the propagation of non-Islamic religious doctrines and beliefs among Muslims was made into law. The enactment makes provisions for a number of offences. This includes the use of any of the words listed in Part I of the schedule to the enactment. The word “Allah” is one of the listed words which currently number 25 altogether, the schedule being amendable by each state Ruler in Council. Other words include “Salat”, “Firman Allah”, “Wahyu” and “Qiblat”, just to name a few.

        Since this is clearly a State-level law and provision, is there any concrete steps by PR to effect changes on these so called laws, restrictions and prohibition? Is this again the promise of PR WHEN they get to Putrajaya?

        I am just checking, to be sure, what laws, restrictions and prohibition the Bishop is referring to. The only ones obvious to me, is the propagation of non-Islamic religion among Muslims. Don’t come and tell me that he is concerned about the “undue curtailment” when in reality he is talking about Christian proselytization. The Bishop can ask all Christians to vote for PR for all I care, it is that obvious what this is about. However, to imply that the Christians have been unduly curtailed in this country is absurd.

        Reference:

        Freedom of Religion, Apostasy and Islam
        by Abdullah Saeed, Hassan Saeed

        Reply
      • 11. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 10:16 pm

        i have mentioned churches being demolishe or denied permit for expansion, or construction of new buildings as example, among other things. i suppose you think that is not ‘undue curtailment’?

        as for the allah word, the bumiputera christians have been using it for a long time, way before merdeka or when sabah n sarawak joined. why only recently it has been banned? why is it only some overzealous officials wanna make it an issue?

        Reply
      • 12. Goondoo  |  July 27, 2012 at 4:37 pm

        Dave,

        Does the government of Malaysia prevent you to practise your faith. Does the government of Malaysia forced you to become Muslim? Does the government prevent you to congregate?

        Malaysia is not like Christian Spain during the Spanish Inquisition where millions of Jews and Muslims were expelled or forced to convert.

        What we requested for the Christians not to propagate their religion to the Muslim masses. As religious conversion is a very sensitive issue to the Malays. If not handled properly it can lead to ‘perang saudara’ in Malaysia similar to Ambon, Indonesia. Do you want this to happen? If this happen, I am sure the Muslim radicals can caused a lot of havoc to the Christians in this country.

        We already have racial fault-lines in the country. Do you expect another religious fault-lines?

        Reply
  • 13. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    “Sebuah negara di mana kebebasan agama merangkumi kebebasan untuk menganut, mengamal dan menyebarkan agama di mana ia dibenarkan berkembang tanpa sebarang pembatasan yang tidak wajar dari undang-undang, penegahan ataupun larangan.”

    nampak munasabah. kerajaan kadangkala mengena peraturan yang tak wajar seperti penegahan bahasa melayu untuk orang kristian sabah n sarawak

    Reply
    • 14. tebing tinggi  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:31 pm

      Pengunaan bahasa melayu bukan pekara yang menjadi issue besar , tetapi permintaan yang ‘tidak wajar” dari pehak pemimpin-pemimpin kristian bagi mengunakan perkataan ‘Allah’ dalam kitab bahasa melayu mereka ,mencerminkan ada ajenda yang jahat disebaliaknya, walaupon mereka mengatakan tidak,

      Masyarakat Islam pon ada akal untok memikirkan tujuan yang terselindong.

      Reply
    • 15. Azlan  |  July 27, 2012 at 9:09 am

      Penggunaan Bible dalam bahasa Melayu di Sabah & Sarawak tidak ditegah.

      Penegahan hanya berlaku di Semenanjung.

      Mubaligh Mormon pun ada Bible dalam bahasa Melayu di Sabah & Sarawak dan penggunaannya tidak ditegah.

      Reply
  • 16. OverseasBumi  |  July 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Seems like Indonesia having a similar problem with evangelical christians…

    [YouTube]

    Don’t know how accurate those figures are. They claim 2 million indonesians a year leaving Islam to join christianity?

    Reply
    • 17. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:14 pm

      if that is true, then in 5 years, 10 million new christian. plus maybe a few million more born.

      the percent demographic change will be very clear. but this has not happened.

      i suspect this is another KONY 2012 type video to fleece donations from muslims. at the end, they are asking for 6 million worth in ringgit

      Reply
    • 18. The Illuminati Agent  |  July 26, 2012 at 8:46 pm

      I thought you’re too smart to believe figures presented by the evangelicals. But anyway, since there’s no way for anyone to verify those figures, I can only say they are bogus.

      Reply
  • 19. I hate n'sync  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    I just think that the good Bishop implies a little bit too much. I mean, be honest, can anyone say that there is NO religious freedom in Malaysia (except our poor Malay brethrens, huh)? Freedom to profess is the same situation, but I do agree that the freedom to propogate could be a bummer.

    I mean, are Christians being prosecuted in Malaysia? Do we require the Christians to wear a badge? Are they being hassled for being Christian? Is the State blocking the supply of holy water?

    I mean, I just cannot sympathize with the Church on the point of proselytization and propagation of the faith. It is not even about the Malays and Islam. Maybe the Government is doing the tokongs and temples a huge favour too, no?

    Reply
    • 20. Helen Ang  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:16 pm

      Point of detail.

      The Muslim holy water is air zam zam.

      Where do the Christians import their holy water from or how do they distill Syabas water to become pure enough?

      Reply
      • 21. Helen Ang  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:22 pm

        Postscript on Holy Water:

        Since the Guan Eng administration has sold state water assets to Federal to settle Penang’s RM655.24 million outstanding debt to Putrajaya, then Penang water belongs to Federal already and what flows from the tap would be coming from the “dirty”, “corrupted” BN well.

        No amount of purification process can make BN-origin water clean enough, wor.

        Reply
      • 22. Joe  |  July 27, 2012 at 7:59 pm

        NEWater kot…

        Reply
  • 23. shamshul anuar  |  July 26, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    Helen,

    What the Bishop wants is actually very simple. A nation ruled by anyone as long he is not a Malay/Muslim.

    The Bishop may want to forget that the Constitution specifically prohibits influencing Muslims to renounce islam. I mean Malay rulers would not want to grant citizenships if 54 years later Islam is challenged and insinuated like this.

    Reply
    • 24. Dave  |  July 26, 2012 at 7:50 pm

      pls point out where he said he did not want the nation to be ruled by malay/muslim. also where he said he plans to preach christianity to muslims

      Reply
      • 25. The Illuminati Agent  |  July 26, 2012 at 8:49 pm

        Don’t worry Sham. The nation is not going to be ruled by people like the bishop. This nation is ruled by my Jewish masters through their local proxies, most of them are already in the establishment. Do you need someone to tell you who these local proxies are ? Nye I think you’re smart person, you know who these people are.

        Reply
  • 26. Batutta  |  July 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Non Malay have to accept that the law or ‘Perlembagaan’ has been agreed by their grandpa as condition to accept them as Malaysia citizen..pls don’t deny that..in fact we treat u very well..there are so many temple at my place but we are muslim respect other religion without prejudice..

    Reply
    • 27. The Illuminati Agent  |  July 26, 2012 at 9:25 pm

      hmm…….since the law is formulated by men, they can also be reformulated by other men. That’s why my Jewish masters support the Ketua Umum and his band of violent provocateurs. No only to change the law, but to make the law work in their favor. Bersih has been declared as legal by the court, not that I care much whether Bersih is legal or not, as long as they serve the interests of the Ketua Umum and his band of violent provocateurs who are the local proxies of my Jewish masters.

      Reply
      • 28. The Illuminati Agent  |  July 26, 2012 at 9:29 pm

        and oh by the way, the law is open to interpretation and since different people have different interpretations, you think all interpretations are going to be the same ? That’s why when the interior minister declared Bersih as haram, the Bersih folks took the case to court and now the court has declared that Bersih is not haram. But Bersih is indeed haram but not in legal terms although I have to admit they are haram in terms of accepting foreign assistance and money. Ha ha ha !

        Reply
  • 29. kik kik kik  |  July 26, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    2008 they came out with the same call;

    and know they doing it again!

    what about others

    no call?

    no soccer?

    *they will keep doing it until some guys will follow them. this is a sure thing to happen.

    Reply
  • 30. shamshul anuar  |  July 26, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Dave,

    I am not a 14 year old boy. From what he said, I can interpret that this so “called Govt ” is not to his liking for it insists on honouring the constitution that clearly prohibits propagation of other religions to Muslims.

    Meaning that the choice is of course any party that supports his intention. So do not be surprise if that is what Muslims perceive.

    He of course did not say out loud. He took the safe way, indicating his dislike to the current government and the same time telling the Christian congregations to vote for Pakatan rakyat. Just because he did not say it does not mean he is free from political leaning.

    So, if you are so upset about not being able to preach Christianity to Muslims and this you claim as restricting your freedom, nobody is stopping you from getting out from the country. Remember citizenship is granted to you, your parents who were then mere immigrants with condition that they respect the sensitivities of Muslims. In short, Citizenship comes with strings attached.

    so do not get upset with call to strip someone of his citizenship if he seems to deviate from Constitution.

    Of course, by saying this, you will consider me uncouth, racist. You seem to forget that the feeling is mutual.

    Reply
    • 31. Helen Ang  |  July 26, 2012 at 11:24 pm

      The bishop circulated this epistle not as an individual but in his official capacity as CFM chairman. Therefore we have to look at what CFM is.

      CFM claims to represent 90 per cent of the country’s Christians. Its position is that “there should be no restrictions, proscriptions or prohibitions on the Bible or the use of the language of choice in the practice of the religion” — read here.

      Previously Bishop Ng and CFM took the position that:

      With regard to the Bibles which were stamped with the words ‘For Christians Only’ and serial numbers, Ng said “we reiterate our position that the action of the Ministry of Home Affairs (KDN) in stamping Bibles amounts to an act of defacement, disrespect and treating with disdain the holy book of the Christians”.

      One of the three component bodies of CFM is NECF.

      NECF chairman chairman Rev Eu Hong Seng not too long ago caused a controversy by saying that Article 153 is akin to “bullying”, read here.

      The second and third CFM constituent members are CCM (Council of Churches of Malaysia) and the Roman Catholic Church.

      Reply
    • 32. Dave  |  July 27, 2012 at 1:30 am

      hey, where am i talking about preaching other religion to muslims here? it seems your paranoia n prejudice is getting the upper hand of you.

      lets look at what he has called christian voters to consider:

      A nation guided by the ethics of respect for human dignity. This means a nation where its citizens are engaged fairly as equals, and their rights respected in accordance with the provisions as guaranteed under the Federal Constitution. Such a nation treats its citizens with understanding, honesty and mutual respect.

      A nation where extremism of all kinds is rejected and quickly curtailed. Racial and religious bigotry, manipulation and lies that have now come to define the social sphere, the print media and political posturing must end immediately.

      A nation free of corruption, putting in place strengthened state and public institutions whose members conduct themselves with integrity, transparency and accountability.

      A nation that works towards the fair and equitable distribution of wealth and ensuring well-being for all, regardless of citizenship status, ethnicity or creed. Every citizen and every community should be empowered and enabled to pursue economic activity and achieve advancement duly and fairly supported by the government where needed and necessary without favour or discrimination and without being overly or unfairly supported by the state.

      A nation where care for the environment is privileged over self-seeking capitalism and where its political leaders weigh all decisions with ecological interest and sustainability as an essential aspect of development.

      A nation where language and education are de-linked from political expedience.

      A nation where elitism and inequality is not rampant and people are recognised and respected as human beings and not discriminated against due to social position, educational attainment, political beliefs, gender, race or religion.

      A nation where religious freedom to profess, practice and propagate one’s religion is allowed to flourish without undue curtailment from the law, restrictions or even prohibition.”

      you have claimed he is calling for christians to vote pakatan. are you implying pakatan rakyat is capable of having respect for human dignity, engaging its citizen as equals with rights respected in accordance with the provisions as guaranteed under the Federal Constitution, rejects extremism of all kinds, fair n equal dist of wealth, and all of the above?

      did you just paint yourself into the corner? : )

      Reply
      • 33. zalram  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:14 am

        uncle dave,

        ‘ A nation guided by the ethics of respect for human dignity. This means a nation where its citizens are engaged fairly as equals, and their rights respected in accordance with the provisions as guaranteed under the Federal Constitution. Such a nation treats its citizens with understanding, honesty and mutual respect.

        ‘A nation where extremism of all kinds is rejected and quickly curtailed. Racial and religious bigotry, manipulation and lies that have now come to define the social sphere, the print media and political posturing must end immediately.

        ‘A nation free of corruption, putting in place strengthened state and public institutions whose members conduct themselves with integrity, transparency and accountability.

        ‘A nation that works towards the fair and equitable distribution of wealth and ensuring well-being for all, regardless of citizenship status, ethnicity or creed. Every citizen and every community should be empowered and enabled to pursue economic activity and achieve advancement duly and fairly supported by the government where needed and necessary without favour or discrimination and without being overly or unfairly supported by the state.

        ‘A nation where care for the environment is privileged over self-seeking capitalism and where its political leaders weigh all decisions with ecological interest and sustainability as an essential aspect of development.

        ‘A nation where language and education are de-linked from political expedience.

        ‘A nation where elitism and inequality is not rampant and people are recognised and respected as human beings and not discriminated against due to social position, educational attainment, political beliefs, gender, race or religion.

        ‘A nation where religious freedom to profess, practice and propagate one’s religion is allowed to flourish without undue curtailment from the law, restrictions or even prohibition.”

        ———————————————————————————-

        i am glad at last i found a person who can give me important info about the ideal place where i can live out for the rest of my valuables life. would you mind giving the name of that state, uncle dave…

        TQ

        Reply
  • 34. zalram  |  July 26, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    KAK HELEN,

    apa yang dipinta di sini adalah jelas — hak sama rata dan hak mutlak

    dalam konteks agama, mungkin tiada pembatasnya

    dalam konteks politik apakah sama

    apakah ada situasi menang-menang

    kalau ada apa dia

    bagi saya,

    jawapan terbaik bagi permintaan ini ialah

    ‘berpijaklah atas bumi yang nyata’

    TK

    Reply
  • 35. Iqraq  |  July 27, 2012 at 1:00 am

    Dear Dave,

    We have already been through this discussion around the time of the DUMC controversy. I suggest you look through Helen’s posts from that time.

    Just to reiterate however, Muslims in Malaysia don’t buy the evangelists’ explanation for wanting to use ‘Allah’ for even a moment. We realize that it is difficult to convert people to Christianity nowadays just by spreading the actual message because it is full of flaws. That’s why the mat salleh have largely left Christianity in the West and evangelists have to come Asia to deceive gullible Asians (very much like what tobacco companies are doing with cigarettes- smoking rates are plumetting in the West).

    We know what the true intention is and we don’t appreciate being lied to and that’s why we are angry.

    If you want to preach, tell us the message. Don’t pretend to be ‘like Islam’ by having church on Friday, calling prayer ‘solat’, singing songs called ‘Alhamdulillah’ and ‘Allahuakbar’ and calling the Trinity ‘Allah, al-Masih dan roh quddus’ just to make Muslims (who detest shirk) more ‘comfortable’ with the idea. Tell it like it is. Don’t try to deceive people. Take the cue from Muslim preachers. No trickery. We preach the message i.e. The Qur’an. If it doesn’t grab you, so be it. Nothing we can do because guidance is only from Allah.

    We know these attempts to ‘confuse’ Muslims are there because your evangelist websites say so e.g.

    http://www.christiananswers.net/islam.html

    Anyway, I do apologize if I have offended you. I know Christians want to ‘save’ others from eternal damnation and that is a loving and noble intention. However, the underhanded trickery is not cool. Let’s put the facts on the table. Anyone who has studied Islam and Christianity in depth with sincerity will know what the truth is. This is my challenge to you. Peace.

    Reply
    • 36. Dave  |  July 27, 2012 at 1:51 am

      iqraq, i have mention earlier the words like allah has been used in bahasa bibles for a long time, much earlier than merdeka and before sabah n sarawak joined. this was not something that started in malaysia in 1970s or 1980s. on the contrary, it was recently that some officials decide it to make it an issue.

      i remember you saying earlier youre uncomfortable being around other cultures, house of worship, n religions. being uncomfortable with others leads to prejudice n suspicion, which is what you are doing.

      assuming if malay muslims can easily be taken by malay language bibles meant for bumi christians, then their faith must be so weak, or their religion is so flawed itself.

      Reply
      • 37. Iqraq  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:46 am

        Re: Allah issue. I don’t want to recycle the discussion we already had last year. The fact that the church dug its heels in and brought the issue to court speaks volumes and people won’t forget it anytime soon. That’s a lot of goodwill sacrificed.

        Re: what I said before – you either misunderstood my meaning then or you are deliberately quoting me out of context. I am not a xenophobe.

        Re: being duped by Malay bibles. I accept that there are many Muslims with weak faith because of lack of understanding. We take collective responsibility for this and we will have to answer for it on Judgment Day as we have not done enough especially in disbursement of zakat. May Allah accept what little we have done and forgive us for our shortcomings.

        But here’s the thing. You and I both know the profile of people Christian evangelists go after. They never approach the likes of me although I would love for them to do so.

        You and I also both know the profile of people who discover and accept Islam. Most times under the most phobic conditions e.g. immediately post 9/11. Ever wonder why reversion rates soared at that time? Ever wonder why reversion rate to Islam is so rapid in the US? Ever wonder why it’s common to find among reverts former priests, divinity students and theologians?

        I don’t need to try and convince you Dave. You can do that on your own if you open your eyes. Peace be with you.

        Reply
      • 38. Dave  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:00 am

        they brought it to court as they have been banned from using the word all of a sudden with excuse given. im sure if the government made an unreasonable action you will do the same.

        i have read cases of former clerics, imam, etc become christian, aethist, agnostic, etc. it goes both ways as well

        Reply
      • 39. pakard  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:56 am

        ..maybe the bumiputeras of Sabah and Sarawak were being cheated all this while. They thought it is the official religion of the country since what they heard in national broadcast and mass media is “Allah”, the same word being used by the missionaries…and it is much easier than the “other” official religion, just sing and dance, the rest as you will… Not only Muslim, other religions are also not happy with the way the christians is doing…and Iqraq, you are not alone…

        Reply
  • 40. Joe  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:22 am

    The Church getting involved in politics… why am I not surprised?

    Reply
  • 41. alan  |  July 27, 2012 at 8:51 am

    church getting involved in politics…fuck u helen ang…

    Reply
    • 42. Helen Ang  |  July 27, 2012 at 9:09 am

      I’ve been told that Chinese guys have very small dicks. No fun.

      (My apology to regular readers for the language but it’s pointless to reason with this type of “fuck you” DAPster thuggery.)

      Reply
      • 43. MatSentol  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:37 pm

        my ex-boss once gave me a petua on how to counter when someone is eff-ing you. Just smile and reply ‘same to your mother….’

        Reply
    • 44. MalaysianinNewYork  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:42 am

      Alan, is this the best you can do to argue in a blog with your puny dick. You can always google up or bing it and see how to increase the size both vertically and horizontally. What a piece of shit you are.

      Reply
    • 45. Joe  |  July 27, 2012 at 8:01 pm

      alan is out of points LOL

      Reply
  • 46. pakard  |  July 27, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Salam dek Helen,

    Memanjangkan pandangan dek Zalram. (Apabila dia meyebut Kak Helen, maka betullah untuk Pak Ard panggil dia dek Zalram).

    Dipenghujung pandangannya ditulis “berpijaklah atas bumi yang nyata”. Inilah yang ramai tidak mahu fikirkan dengan lebih mendalam. Atau ada yang ingin mengubah bumi yang dipijak.

    Ya, seharusnya jika kita ingin menari rentak kita sendiri, kita mesti mulakan dengan tempat berpijak yang menepati kehendak langkah tari. Justeru, ramai yang menyarankan untuk pindah, kemudian apabila sudah ketemu bumi yang serasi, menarilah.

    Pak Ard tak suruh pindah, tak manis begitu, bumi ni cuma satu. Sekarang baik parti politik pembangkang dan pertubuhan yang menentang kerajaan sering menuntut keadilan, hak asasi dan sebagainya. Yang jelas mereka tidak menyebut langsung soal teras kepada perkara-perkara tersebut di Malaysia ini. Mereka menolak teras kenegaraan yang ada sekarang ini. Ini sengaja dilakukan. Tidak ada negara berdaulat yang tidak mempunyai teras kenegaraannya.

    Di Malaysia Islam adalah agama rasmi dan menjadi teras. Agama-agama lain boleh diamalkan tetapi perlulah menghormati agama teras. Bahasa dan budaya pula berteraskan Melayu, lalu bahasa dan budaya lain masih boleh digunakan dengan mengambilkira peranan bahasa dan budaya Melayu.

    Pak Ard lihat apabila ada tuntutan dari mereka-mereka yang bergelar jaguh keadilan, keamanan dan hak asasi sejagat, teras ini sengaja dilupakan. Seolah-olah kita berada di tempat lain, bukan di Tanah Melayu.

    Tak ada guna berbahas panjang, cuma tanyakan adakah mereka setuju dengan teras ini, jika jawabnya ya, kita ada peluang hendak bicara soal tolak ansur, persefahaman dan perkongsian. Jika jawapan mereka tidak, maka sebenarnya isu-isu yang dibangkitkan adalah alat untuk mengubah teras negara.

    Sebutkan satu negara yang tidak ada teras kenegaraannya, mungkin Pak Ard tak tahu. Sekian.

    Reply
  • 47. theprosthetica  |  July 27, 2012 at 10:04 am

    fuck ya’ll

    Reply
    • 48. MalaysianinNewYork  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:26 am

      Wah!!!!, is this what your religion teaches you, “fuck ya’ll”. Aisah man!!!, if I knew this I would have accepted all the material goodies (man made greed, ie weakness used as a weapon to induce) that they extend when they need someone to convert and be converted to increase the vote count.

      Reply
    • 49. MatSentol  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:44 pm

      :) same to your mother…

      Reply
    • 50. Joe  |  July 27, 2012 at 2:55 pm

      What would Jesus do?

      Reply
  • 51. MalaysianinNewYork  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Welcome to the known politics of Christian brotherhood throughout the world. They were doing this long before discreetly amongst us in Malaysia, look back at the mass conversation rate of Hindus in the 80’s in the plantation amongst the poorer masses. The Muslim government or Indian kuncu-kuncus did nothing to stop this.

    Since GE12, their fangs have grown longer with the assistance of DAP and PKR who seems to have majority anglophile reps from the Non Muslim representative. The newest country in the world South Sudan, how do you think it came about? See this
    http://www.christiantoday.com/article/church.marks.south.sudans.independence.with.call.for.continued.peacebuilding/28271.htm . You will notice the similar language.

    Religion is backdoor tool for most western countries, just that it has to be played down subtly until and when it is time to rise. These days it comes in many forms, see http://lizzie-phelan.blogspot.com/2012/07/freedom-is-slavery-popular-support-is.html &

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100172438/amnesty-internationals-latest-arms-trade-campaign-is-colonialism-with-a-kindly-face/

    Reply
    • 52. Anwar Penipu  |  July 27, 2012 at 11:14 am

      kalau begitu kenapa apek masih lagi duduk kat new york ?

      Reply
      • 53. MalaysianinNewYork  |  July 28, 2012 at 2:02 am

        Apa nak buat, Ahweh Muslim. Kita amalkan agama sendiri tanpa apa-apa obstacles. Kalau duduk kat Malaysia, habislah, JAKIM will be up my ass to convert.

        Reply
      • 54. pakard  |  July 28, 2012 at 11:48 am

        Apa maksud awak “JAKIM will be up my ass to convert.” ?? awak KURANG AJAR!!!!

        Reply
  • 55. Rakesh Kumar  |  July 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Something very hurtful is happening in my office. They are organising house (office) warming party as part of us moved in to new office. Today, at 5.30pm!!!!

    How sensitive? Our muslim colleagues leave early, so they are packing some of the food for them. Who the F__ are they to decide what they want to eat????? If they do it after the Ramadhan month can’t the Muslim colleagues also enjoy the session with everyone!

    No prizes for guessing who majority of the comittee are. I am not eating anything, and will leave sharp six. F_ing insensitive bunch!!!

    Sorry, Helen. I know its irrelevant here, but these kinda insensitivity is growing day by day…

    Reply
  • 56. shamshul anuar  |  July 27, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Rakesh Kumar,

    There is a saying “dimana bumi dipijak disitu langit dijunjung”. A very beautiful saying it is nonetheless.

    What the church did (with tacit support by DAP) is trying to erase the history of this land. By all means celebrate your own festivities, cherish your traditions. But certainly trying to erase the “teras” culture is a bit too much.

    For a start, church will go on claiming they are (Christians) are victimized. Never mind that their culture resulted in entire annihilation of native cultures from Latin to pacific, in fact across the globe. Not to mention extermination of Jews that now the Arabs have to pay the price.

    They go on and on insisting on using “allah” when none of numerous pages of Bible, be it old or King James version have even one of that word. Yet it is so important for them to use “allah” and bring the direct clash with Muslims.

    “bila masa pula Kristian sembah “allah?. Kan dia orang sembah Nabi isa. Tak ada seorang pun orang Kristian yang saya tanya jawab mereka sembah Allah. Semua jawab “jesus’. Jadi apa pentingnya nak guna “allah”, one Malay friend told me.

    “Empowered” by DAP controlling just one state, Church now is ever willing to clash with Muslims, bringing the racial flavour into it. As they (the pastors) are almost entirely Chinese and supported by DAP, the dispute on name of “allah” now becomes Malay/Chinese clash.

    And yet these DAPs still claim UMNO is upping its ante to create clash. Are they mad? They are (DAP is) the one creating a conflict out of thin air.

    Reply
  • 57. drallan5469064a  |  August 2, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    When the DAP control Penang, a new church was erected and named Petra Baptist Church in Tanjong Bunga. Petra is part of the Malay ruler names in the Peninsula Malaysia. I have never heard of a Muslim name given to a church in West Malaysia. Is it a coincidence that this happen with the change of gov. I meant no harm in what I am saying. But isn’t that disturbing the honest nest?
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Don’t worry. ‘Petra’ is a Greek word inherited by the Christians long ago, see http://www.trustingodamerica.com/Petra.htm — Helen

    Reply
  • [...] sepenuhnya Pesanan Persatuan Kristian Kepada Gereja-gereja di Malaysia oleh Helen Ang sini.     [...]

    Reply
  • 59. alan  |  August 14, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    MALAYSIA is ISLAMIC country…if u can accept that, its ok…and we can still live together…but if u disturb us, KRISTIAN can ******* go out from MALAYSIA…

    Reply
    • 60. PMM  |  November 22, 2012 at 10:28 am

      ko sapa owh, sedar2 la tu dr mimpi…

      Reply
  • 61. yes  |  October 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    yesus suda ada di dunia sebelum muhamad , kristian dan yahudi suda ada sebelum islam ….. misi agama sebenar adalah untuk menyelamatkan manusia dan menakluk syurga bukan menakluk dunia yang akan binasa akhirnya(kiamat)…

    yesus tidak pernah melakukan dosa maka percaya la kepadanya…

    kristian bangga memiliki yesus kerana dia suci dan tidak pernah melakukan dosa dan dia mengasihi semua manusia.. sebeb misi yesus menyelamatkan manusia dari dosa, sabda yesus: “saya datang bukan minta dilayani tetapi untuk melayani”

    Reply
  • 62. Antihipokrit  |  October 16, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    kelakarlah. Bila nak sebarkan Kristian, diorg kata pentingnya Bahasa Malaysia. Bahasa kebangsaan dan bla bla bla. Kenapa tak diparaktikkan dlm kehidupan seharian BM tu? Cauvinis akan selamanya begitu..

    Reply
    • 63. PMM  |  November 22, 2012 at 10:25 am

      bodoh bukan main, tu la undang2 malaysia ne angkuh nak sangat guna bahasa melayu ne jadi bahasa kebangsaan konon….da tu tak da pla kata BM ne orang muslim jak boleh pakai…

      Reply
  • […] 1- http://www.necf.org.my/ 2- http://ccmalaysia.org/ 3- http://www.anwaraidc.com/?p=26425 4- http://helenang.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/pesanan-persekutuan-kristian-msia-kepada-gereja-gereja-berh… 5- http://eemalaysia.net/ […]

    Reply
  • […] Pesanan Persekutuan Kristian M’sia kepada gereja-gereja berhubung PRU – rujuk SINI […]

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