Rev. Hermen Shastri diajukan soalan berbentuk – “Sekiranya Yesu hari ini berdaftar sebagai pemilih di Malaysia, gagasan politik yang manakah akan mendapat undi-Nya?” – tatkala sesi soal-jawab forum bertajuk ‘GE 13: What would Jesus do?’ petang semalam.
Rev. Shastri, iaitu setiausaha agung Council of Churches of Malaysia (CCM), sebelum itu mengesyorkan supaya kegiatan mendakwah dibendung dengan mewujudkan moratorium (perjanjian untuk menunda) bagi tempoh 5 tahun akan datang, FMT melaporkan hari ini.
[Blogger Syed Akbar Ali pun pernah mengemukakan cadangan yang serupa — baca sini.]
Rev. Shastri berpendapat bahawa pembekuan usaha mendakwah, jika ia dikenakan ke atas kedua-dua “triumphalism Christianity and Islam” (gelora mengembang dan memenangkan agama Kristian/Islam), mungkin akan dapat meredakan suasana tegang masakini di antara penganut Kristian dan umat Islam negara.
Adakah Rev. Shastri sebenarnya khuatir bahawa mubaligh Kristian memang ada yang mendakwah kepada orang Melayu?
*** *** ***
Sementara itu, di Subang Jaya bulan ini dan pada tahun lepas …
Screenshot atas ialah blog berjudul Subang Rally yang ditadbir ‘Christian Fellowship of Subang Jaya’.
Teliti pencapaian Subang Rally – merujuk kepada acara tahunan membabitkan budak-budak sekolah dan kolej – yang disebutkan Christian Fellowship of Subang Jaya. “Around 20 people accepted Christ in the first session”.
Subangrally.blogspot.com mencatatkan detik-detik Subang Rally mulai tahun 2009 hingga edisi terkini pada 2012.
Di bawah pula ialah screenshot di mana laman sesawang tersebut menyeru “Rise up its (sic) time to take Subang for Jesus!!!”
Bayangkan sekiranya seruan itu berbunyi: “Rise up it’s time to take Shah Alam for Jesus!!!” Adakah kaum Muslim akan merasa tercabar?
Logo pada ruang kanan (sidebar) halaman Subang Rally menggambarkan belenggu dipecahkan … seolah-olah masyarakat Kristian tempatan dicengkam penindasan yang amat dashyat sekali.
ruj. http://subangrally.blogspot.com
Tertera ungkapan “Subang for Christ” pada sepanduk Subang Rally.
Peserta-peserta memakai kemeja-T dengan ungkapan “Subang for Jesus” dan “Ignite for Christ”.
Walaupun tiada apa-apa yang tidak kena dengan kemeja-T bersulamkan nama Yesu, namun yang menjadi masalah ialah pihak-pihak mahu mempolitikkan acara bagi golongan muda yang masih duduk di bangku sekolah.
Apa maksud tersirat T-shirt bercogankata ‘Change’? Cuba lihat pesanan di bawah gambar kemeja-T tersebut — “Let us keep on pushing for change in our schools and for Subang Jaya.
Masih ingat lagi ketika budak-budak sekolah dikerah untuk melafazkan doa bagi Hannah Yeoh? — gambar sini.
Antara speaker-speaker di acara Subang Rally selama beberapa tahun ialah Adun DAP Subang Jaya Hannah Yeoh dan setiausaha politiknya Edward Ling yang pernah dilantik menjadi kaunsilor Majlis Perbandaran Subang Jaya.
Malah acara Subang Rally ini juga dipromosi dengan cogankata ‘Change’ – lihat gambar papan tanda – di sekolah tempat belajar (alma mater) Hannah dahulu.
Apa maksud yang dibawa peringatan “Ubah” – Fasa 2: tahun 2012? Adakah sekolah dipolitikkan juga?
FMT melapor semalam:
“[I]t is an open secret that the faithful of the various Christian denominations and their leaders are seething in silent anger. …
“And the anger of the Christians stems from the policies and actions of the government vis-à-vis Umno such as the legal row over the usage of the Arabic term Allah …”
Di bawah ialah screenshot pendirian laman Subang Rally yang dikendalikan oleh Christian Fellowship of Subang Jaya perihal isu kalimah Allah.
Bagi mereka, “Allah = GOD”, “as Christians we understand that we have every right to the usage of this word, however, at this present time and age our rights are now being challenged”.
Laman tersebut juga berkata “… the leaders of Subang Jaya this year wants (sic) a PUSH, We want to literally Push Christians to rise up …”
“Para pemimpin Subang Jaya” yang menghasut kelompok Kristian untuk “Bangkit” nyata mempunyai pengaruh negatif dan kesan amat membimbangkan ke atas anak-anak mentah yang mudah diperalatkan.
Berkaitan:
Helen Ang 
Christians are salt…? ..no thanks.. i have high blood pressure
But helen, in my opine, the zealots are targetting chinese, i have a friend who converted while in KDU collage while her family is buddhist coz her rich christian boyfriend…..
true to some extent the church promise networking to rich potential spouses if they join their fellowship meetings on sunday… in the end its all about material reward… while islam promise virgins and divine rewards in after life…
i guess material reward in real life matters more the the chinese who are culturally sceptical to afterlife (malays tend to stereotype that chinese fear death).. after all.. the world paints that the christian west is rich and glamorous.. hence the appeal towards the chinese urbanites to become a sheep
I doubt these goons can penetrate the malays as these pricks in subang think they are god chosen one and too superior to befriend malays… lest we forget the malays resisted christianity for centuries… even under islam the malay rulers insist on a pragmatic version without hudud…
maybe the reason is that the malays have always fought back when they went too far…even the pattani kingdom successfully put the buddhist thai kingdom at bay for centuries…:-100 years blockade againts portuguese malacca and raids against european pirate ships by muslim buguese have entrenched in the malay mindset that these people must be fought off when they try to impose on the malays…
the cultists better not push it too far….but unfortunately, the selfish sheeps have pulled the general chinese community into an unnecessary conflict between islam and the megachurches cult.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you forecast Malay reaction should another DUMC situation recur? — Helen
I dun expect malays to chase the sheep disguised wolves with parang..like i said..we have the malay dog army and police to do the persecution….im just waiting for the adnans to roll in any second now.
Of course.malays being gossipers will spread news of the nasrani infiltration and the malay community will be on their guard….they will stop sending kids to tuition with christian teachers, the malay dominated national school will become more religious and filled islamic murals..and we will try to mimick osama bin laden even more.
Just as the megachurch sheepskin wolf think they are religious by tricking peoples children into the flock..the muslim malays will reciprocate by being more conservative and close up ranks by being what you hate the most..being more arabized which are good remedies to ward away megachurch wolves.
terlintas di fikiran saya, jika Allah = God bagi orang kristian, God yang mana satu ya? Ada 3 God,maka Allah bagi mereka merujuk kepada yang mana?
bro, ada kat atas jugak.. refer gambar nombor 2 dari bawah..
Here’s my brief experience related to Christianity:
1. I still remember few years ago, there’s a stranger who approached me in a major book store and asked if I’m interested to listen to something in a church. I politely declined. I saw him stopping several people around the bookstore presumably asking the same thing.
2. Then during my university days, I was also naive enough to join a group of gathering outside campus under a persuasion of a course mate, which turned out to be a Christian gathering, where they ended up singing songs on Jesus and talking about the religion. Later, I found out that few of my course mates were converted.
3. And then I found this few days ago when I was trying to look for news on Kong Hee and his beautiful wife Sun Ho… No comment other than Sun Ho looks unbelievably hot for her age (42) ;)
End of story…
Click on this screenshot to have a look at FMT‘s Freudian slip wrt to “Malaysia (T)oday”.
It’s funny considering Raja Petra’s complaints that his Christian readers can’t stop making racist and Islam-bashing comments.
His write-up on Rosmah which I quoted was his way of throwing a cat among the pigeons. And the pigeons just had to prove him right by continuing to heap insults on her.
back in 1998, when I was a freshman at a local public university, after the orientation week, a couple of Christians came to my hostel room and started to preach their religion to me and my other room mate. suffice to say, we ignored them. but that wasn’t the end of the story.
these people, they just wouldn’t give up. they kept pestering me and my room mate. it was later, way later, that we both realized that it was our other room mate who told these people to come and preach to the both of us. so, in order to stop them from “disturbing” us any further, we told them that we are not interested and to stop wasting our time. needless to say, they stopped “visiting” us after we told them so.
They are many Christians. The ‘traditionalist’ – Catholic, Anglican or the Evangelical who are active?
I suspect its the latter with the ‘i found God’ type. They late comers and therefore aggressively recruiting new members fast to become ‘mainstream’.
wow wow wow….. big story….
Forrestcat,
I am afraid such resistance against Christian or Christanized preachers is waning.
Way back in 1946s, Malays due to their iman fought the largest empire (British) that just won a world war.
But now sadly Malays are too divided. They consume much of their time attacking each other, especially PAS. It goes on attacking mode against UMNO while preachers from Taiwan, Korea go secretly into Kelantan jungle to convert orang Asli into Christianity.
Even now in Ramadhan, PAS uses mosques to its advantage attacking UMNO.
Besides, nowadays, there are Malay Muslims are are willing to “prostitute ” Islam for ‘habuan di dunia”.
The classic case is “Allah”. It is worst than Portuegese invasion of Malacca or Malayan Union. But the response id divided, resulting Muslims who object to Christian using the word “allah’ are perceived as tolls for UMNO ? Why? Because there are Muslims who go on saying UMNO porposely stir up Malays on this matter.
well the sabah, sarawakian, orang asli n bumi christian have been using it for a long time. why is it now only that some guy in the government determine it to be a threat?
what is next? will they decide to ban bahasa language religious material for christians?
Kelakar jugak sebenarnya. Mungkin mereka tak pernah baca perlembagaan Malaysia. kalau mereka nak berdakwah, berdakwah kepada bukan Islam.
Tapi saya tak pernah pula baca di mana2 tentang pendakwah Islam berdakwah terang2 kepada non-Muslim. PERKIM pun tak berdakwah sangat kepada bukan Islam tetapi lebih membantu saudara baru yg berminat peluk Islam.
Lain la kalau pendakwah kristian, masuk ke hulur hilir sanggup masuk rumah panjang, masuk hutan untuk kristiankan orang. Emm, past few years ada jugak PAS Kelantan berdakwah kepada orang asli. Tapi mungkin sebab most of them Atheist, so tak la nampak mereka murtad agama kut.
Setuju dengan Shamsul Anuar. PAS gunakan surau dan terang2 sebut UMNO/BN semasa tazkirah/ceramah. Baik mereka tarbiyah orang Islam supaya tak terpesong akidah.
p/s: Tak pernah pula dengar PAS nak Islamkan non-Muslim besar-besaran or UMNO nak Islamkan secara besar-besaran. Takde plak saya dengar Islam untuk Kelantan. Dulu ye la Islam for All tapi dah tukar jadi PAS for All. Tapi Jesus for Subang Jaya? Member2 pembangkang pasni kena murtad ke? Uhuk…
“Rev. Hermen Shastri diajukan soalan berbentuk – “Sekiranya Yesu hari ini berdaftar sebagai pemilih di Malaysia, gagasan politik yang manakah akan mendapat undi-Nya?”
Orang Islam percaya sekiranya Nabi Isa kembali, dia takkan bercakap pasal politik pun, Nabi Isa akan membetulkan kesalahan orang Kristian yang percaya Nabi Isa itu adalah anak Tuhan walhal sebenarnya Nabi Isa adalah seorang Nabi sepertimana Nabi Muhammad, Nabi Ibrahim, Nabi Musa, Nabi Nuh dan Nabi Adam. Kefahaman Yesus itu adalah anak Tuhan dan sebahagian dari “Trinity” creed adalah dibawa oleh St Paul dan diputuskan di “Council of Nicea: pada tahun 325AD.
Takkan Nabi Isa itu anak Tuhan ataupun sebahagian dari Tuhan kerana Nabi Isa dalam amalan harian menyembah Tuhan yang satu.
Penulis Edward Gibbon dalam ” History of Christianity” pernah berkata, “If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.”
Very true, my friend.
What would Jesus do if He were registered to vote in GE13?
He would smite those who used His name in vain, those who brought disrepute to His flock by association with frivolous and unbecoming matters such as political campaigns. Jesus will smite them with great vengeance and furious anger.
He would first look for Anwar Ibrahim and Lim Guan Eng, for creating so much havoc in Malaysia.
Hahaha……Rev. Herman to me, if Jesus were to come to Malaysia, he will not be qualified to vote as he is not warganegara Malaysia lah….
Camelot
do you know that jesus is not a god?? and there is no holy ghost?? and god dont breed?
OMG. Do the christians know that?
If the Christians of today believe that Jesus is God or the reincarnation of God in human form, or the son of God because of the miracle of his birth (i.e. no biological father), then what about Adam and Eve? They have no father and mother, as they were the first humans to be created by God, so what does that make them? By the Christian’s logic, aren’t they supposed to be God or the son/daughter of God too, and therefore should be worshipped too?
Another question: some Christians sect believe that by embracing Christ, you are guaranteed heaven as Jesus died so that all of us (who accept him, that is), would go to heaven. They believe that the first sin committed by Adam and Eve have cursed the whole human race to damnation and eternal hell, therefore God sent down His son, or the reincarnation of Himself in human form, to be sacrificed so that humans can go to heaven and not be cursed to eternal damnation anymore (thus all the Christians’ talk of how much God loves THEM and somehow makes them special and selected). If that is true, do Christians then believe that Abraham, Moses, Joseph and all the other prophets before Jesus were all cursed to hell?
Another question: if God is just in the eyes of the Christians, isn’t it unjust for the whole of humanity to be punished because of the sin committed by another? And isn’t it vanity of the highest order to believe that somehow somebody else is paying for your sins because you are so special and loved by God?
1: adam n eve (adam n hawa) were not manifestation of god in human form. they were created n given free will to make decision independently.
2: they do not believe the prophets messengers of god are in hell. similarly, muslim dont believe the prophets before muhammad are in hell because they practice jewish religion
3: would that ‘somebody’ be jesus?
Dave,
Jesus never claimed divinity, he was a practising Jew .. circumcised , never ate pork and he prayed to a GOD..
No way Jesus can be a god as claimed by the Christians.. Anyway , Jesus was only sent for the “house of David” i.e Jews.. He was not sent for the gentiles like you and me..
If you got problems finding the verse in the bible relating to my comments above, I can provide you the verses for free of charge.
Helen… sorry for bringing religious discussion inside your blog..Can’t help when dealing with brainwashed Christians that said that they were “persecuted” in Malaysia in spite their adherents are growing in numbers and they can practised freely .
goondoo,
melonhead asked a question. i reply to his querys.
there are verses in the bible which jesus himself has claimed his divinity. you yourself can search easily to get the verses in matter of minutes, if you keep an open mind
Really Dave, can you show at least one unequivocally that Jesus said himself that he was GOD and asked his followers to worship him.. I can easily show you many verses that he claimed otherwise.
Anyway, Why you are not following Jesus; no pork, circumcised and the way Jesus prayed to GoD ..his practises were similar to the Muslims.
Don’t you know in Quran Jesus name was mentioned 25X while Prophet Muhammad was only mentioned 5X. There was a surah titled Mary in Quran while in Quran, Prophet Muhammad’s mother and father were not mentioned.
Please watch this documentary by ITV about Jesus from the Islamic perspectives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeR_fU1acjM&feature=related
“And if you question my divinity, i will sue you. I sue, sue, sue. If you dare, you see what I will do.” – Book of Kim, 4:44
Matthew 16:15-17
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
———————–
John 3:13-15
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven —the Son of Man.[a] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[b] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[c]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
———————–
btw, i know jesus is mentioned in koran as a prophet.
historically, islam came 600 years after jesus. and first you said he was a practising jew, now you say his practice were similar to muslims. isnt that a contradiction?
Dave, can you please give me the original text in the original language of the Bible that is definitely NOT english. Then maybe we will know whether Jesus did say so and so the way he was claimed to have said.
The problem with the Bible is that there is different versions, so which one is the real one? If once people can change verses in the Bible, how can it be valid anymore? And if people can translate the Bible into their own language without putting the real language for us to compare, macam mana boleh diterima? And how come people can change the words inthe Bible? And how sure are you that what you quoted Jesus said is actually from Jesus and not by some man who have changed what Jesus said for their own purposes?
There is only one Quran.
How many versions of the Bible is there?
And Islam is the continuation of the Abrahamic religion up until Jesus and Mohammed. If i had to choose between one religion that is complete with another that is only half way there, isn’t it more logical to accept the complete one?
Muslims believe that after Jesus died, some religious people changed what he said and taught in order to suit them. We believe that people corrupted the Bible. So, how can we believe a kitab that has been corrupted?
Ps/- thanks for being civil in answering my questions. I am not trying to be mean, i am truly asking. I have many christian friends who preach to me all the time but i notice that most of them cannot answer t he questions that i posed to them.
Dave,
When I said “Unequivocal” verse by Jesus, I am expecting he himself said “I am God or Son or God. worship me” not his follower or his follower trying to allude that “Jesus is God”.
Anyway since you quote verses that refer Jesus as Son of God, how about many more verses that refer to Son Of God as the following verses and these verses did not refer to Jesus:-
“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son ofSeth, which
was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD. ” luke 3:38
“That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose.
“. . . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty
men which were of old, men of renown. ” genesis 6:2 and 4
“. . . Thus saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my
FIRSTBORN. ” exodus 422
“. . . Thou (O David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God)
BEGOTTEN © thee. ” psalms i-.i
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ” ROMANS 8:14
Anyway how about verses that Jesus himself denying he was God such as :-
“One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing
shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
“And Jesus said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME
GOOD? there is NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD . .
. ” MATTHEW 19:16-17
“And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is
GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth. ” matthew 28:
.. can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge …”
JOHN 5:30
If you want to know my blood line, you will ask about my genealogy.. Goondoo Singh A/L Karpal SIng A/L Gurmukh Singh A/L Awtar Singh….What the bible said on the genealogy of Jesus? Interesting reading..Why the Bible said the genelogy of Jesus came from Joseph, his supposed father???
After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah
(Mathew 1:12)
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
…Luke 3:23
When I said Jesus practices were similar to the Muslims , I was referring to the way Jesus prayed to the One God as quoted here as Muslims also prostrated to the Allah
“Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will’” (Matthew 26:39).
melonhead, similarly the koran we have today was actually compiled long after the passing of muhammad.
in the early history there were different versions, it was actually uthman the 3rd caliph who would create the koran we see now. the reason was to prevent bickering over who has the true version n teachings. all other versions were ordered destroyed once the uthman codex was ready.
from a skeptical view, the uthman codex may not be the original version, some scholars actually dispute its originality with some verses or chapters removed. they have a point, the original version of the koran may actually be one of those destroyed in favor of the uthman koran, which was created as result of political goal to avoid the caliphate from splitting.
in any case utman would be asassinated by muslims, and so was the same fate of the next kalifah.. ali. after that, islam broke into two main denomination; sunni n syiah. till today, they are still fighting each other
You got it all wrong. The Quran is all Allah’s words and Allah has promised to protect it until the day of judgement. Do not equate the Quran with the bible, which have so many versions.
There is no such thing as a jewish religion. Islam has been there since the beginning of time. All the Abrahamic religions were all actually Islam but some, like the jewish religion and christianity were twisted round to suit the selfish needs of some corrupt rulers and priests.
Do you even have a point? Your attempts to score political points have only been through race and religion. Very dangerous given the amount of simpletons around. Blog responsibly or just plainly shut the fuck up.
pls be civil in discourse here.
And your definition of civil is? Does incitement through religion and race count? There is no christian or chinese conspiracy you dumb fuck. All it is a political party trying ruthlessly to stay in power and using scum and filth to achieve it. Take your civil definitions elsewhere.
Case study in scum and filth: ddd (Exhibit A-1)
Case study in simpletons: ddd (Exhibit A)
I have a few questions for Pakatan Apologists. Since Christians claim they are following the teachings of Jesus, then why are they still ……
one, not circumcised (for the men of course),
and two, why do they still consume pork ?
I beg to differ..never mind the foreskin…christians have practically failed in their own essence ie loving the sinner…they have enslaved robbed and bombed the sinners…the christians have always failed to do one thing the claim they are good at..love…in reality christianity is a religion of hate and perversity…hence perverted offpsring religions like mormonism and jehovah witness cults
similarly, one can say muslims have failed at asserting their religion is one of peace… violence between muslims, conflict vs nonmuslim, honour killings, domestic violence, etc.
hence… some guy who ran around with a samurai sword claiming hes the mahdi last month
Terang2an Subang Jaya akan diKristiankan.