Straight from the Hosanna’s mouth, haw-haw-haw

April 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm 110 comments

Yesterday we read the DAPster comments on the FT MCA Youth chief and the Beliawanis MCA chief. Malaysiakini readers confidently comment in any way they like because they feel it is their ‘right’ having plonked money on the portal’s subscription fee.

I know this as an ex-columnist. The DAPsters justify – “we PAID for our right to comment in Malaysiakini“. Invoking their “bought-with-our-money” privilege was the standard retort whenever I protested that their abuses had crossed the line.

Anyway, that’s all water under the bridge now.

Today – to complete the trilogy on DAPster mentality – let’s examine a cover story from The Rocket (To read, double click screenshot at bottom of page).

It is a most aptly titled article — ‘Here comes the future‘.

Indeed.

It is penned by Rocket staffer Chung Hosanna. Hers is a most Christian name, meaning “save, pray”.

“In liturgical context, Hosanna refers to a shout of praise and worship and adoration. It appears in numerous Bible verses including in “Hosanna; blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord” (Mark 11.9), “hosanna in the highest” (Mark 11.10); “hosanna to the Son of David” (Matt 21:9).”
[Source: Wiki]

Hallelujah

Hosanna accuses BN of practising “political double-speak” and peddling the pipe dream of “1Malaysia to woo moderates”.

BN’s doublespeak? Ha ha ha. Like I’d said in my previous posting about how DAPsters define ‘pretty’, they sure look at things through different eyes.

Chiding the “constant boisterous cheers” of MCA supporters at the Chua Soi Lek vs Lim Guan Eng debate on Feb 18, Hosanna bears witness:

“a defensive [party] president and a loutish crowd of unruly supporters, the signs that MCA is afraid of an increasingly powerful PR which many Chinese Malaysians are now throwing their weight behind”

“A loutish crowd of unruly supporters”? She’s says they’re MCA people. Hahahaha.

Hosanna proceeds to make a further accusation:

“It is perhaps unsurprising that [MCA] a political party of solely Chinese-membership by constitution would seek a Chinese-language debate on issues of Chinese importance.”

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I’m reminded of old cowboy movies where the Red Indian grumbles, “White Man speak with forked tongue”.

In the first place, the debate organizers have clarified that it was Guan Eng who elected for the debate to be in Mandarin.

This info comes from no less than the Asli president himself and corroborated by his organization’s senior vice president, both addressing a press conference. Furthermore, the clarification was reported by pro-opposition portal The Malaysian Insider, not The Star.

Gosh. Imagine the party faithful who take The Rocket as gospel truth.

It gets better. Hosanna scolds the debate organizers for asking participants “to put on the racially tinted lens of a ‘Chinese Malaysian’,” whilst at the same time complaining “there is no denying the racial element inherent in the entire conference”.

Duh. Since Hosanna’s boss is so anti-“racist”, why even bother to take part in the conference (hosting the debate) knowing its inherently “racial element”?

“Is the future contemplated by a Malaysian of Chinese descent that different from that of a Malaysian of another race?”

Ask them back. They should know. After all, hahahaha, every single one of the DAP Parliamentary seats is in a Chinese-majority area.

In the paragraph below, Hosanna sounds like she’s reciting a passage from the Chairman’s Little Malaysian First Book. Using almost identical phrasing to Guan Eng, Hosanna harrumphs:

“The notion that politicians in power would only look after rakyat of the same skin color is outmoded, obsolete, and frankly distasteful to all fair-minded Malaysians. The whole point of democracy is that your rights are equal to mine, whether I’m a poor Chinese girl from Jinjang, or a rich Malay dude from Bangi.”

“Poor Chinese girl from Jinjang”, “rich Malay dude from Bangi” … LOL … her Romeo and Juliet imagery are shades of screenplay from the Yasmin Ahmad wet dream ‘Sepet’.

But I’m gobsmacked by Hosanna’s turn of phrase “frankly distasteful to all fair-minded Malaysians”. How awesome. Other peoples’ ideology are “frankly distasteful”. Just like how to certain DAP politicians, other people are “low class”.

The DAP lofty rhetoric would be quite incomplete without the requisite chest-thumping, innit? Here it is comes, straight from the Hosanna’s mouth:

“My race doesn’t need defending; it is the cause of the poor, the needy, the voiceless, and the weak that needs to be championed. Guan Eng spoke passionately about a two-party system that focuses on policies to aid such people. He reminded the audience of the successful model adopted in Penang by the PR government and highlighted its fiscal prudence. He spoke of removing corruption and restoring integrity.”

This is where I crack up and start rolling on the floor.

Something that DAPsters can’t seem to run away from is their vehement insistence that nobody is allowed to view them as Chinese. Ha ha ha, some more.

Hosanna’s testimony:

“I didn’t care whether the Penang Chief Minister was Chinese. I cared that he was competent. I want a system in Malaysia that doesn’t care what race I am.”

Fine. Some of us think you’re Klingons but in your own Malaysian Malaysia utopia, whatever lah. 

Saints and sinners

Below is the Rocket list of the good and the bad from the CSL-LGE debate. It’s a Christian thing: They’re obsessed with sorting out the sheep from the goat.

The Good

Yellow-clad DAP supporters who kept their cool despite being outnumbered and provoked. Although DAP supporters were largely hampered from the audience participation segment, DAP Pahang’s young rising star Chow Yu Hui’s rational and intellectual manner of questioning earned him the moniker ‘DAP’s Jawab Gor’.”

Ha ha ha ha ha …

FYI: I was in the audience that day – outside, as there was no seat reserved for me inside the packed hall – and I can tell you the DAP supporters were urm, not as wholly “rational and intellectual” (ha ha ha) in their manner as she’d like you to believe.

The second ‘Good’ that Hosanna saw in the debate was:

“For once, Lim Guan Eng got a chance to explain the policies of PR to a wider national audience thanks to pay-to-view TV station Astro. While state-run TV stations still censor news and black out pro-opposition coverage, Astro’s bold move is a step forward for media freedom.”

There! I told you the Rocket article was really hilarious. When Hosanna decries “black out pro-opposition coverage”, I thought for a moment she was talking about Selangor TV or Selangor Times.

The Bad

“MCA supporters distinguished themselves by their jeering, cheering, and incoherent, even irrational audience questions.”

Hosanna states that Jessie Ooi “earned infamy for heckling Guan Eng”. She points one finger at the MCA Selayang coordinator for the sin of heckling but four fingers are pointing back at her own party and its followers.

Hosanna observes that “Netizens have dubbed [Jessie] “Ms Tow Truck”, and “memes ridiculing her have gone viral”.

Precisely! It’s the stock in trade for DAPsters to heap ridicule on their opponents, and sparking the most viciously viral memes is an art the DAPsters have perfected. ‘Here comes the future’ …  yes, we can already see how the future would look with DAP in control.

This posting continues with:

Readers comments below include a merge from ‘Karpal is not a Klingon’, and ‘New party joins Pakatan … almost’

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“Lu bukan cantik, apa pasal orang mau ‘bogelkan’ you?” Karpal is not a Klingon

110 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Hussin Rahman  |  April 15, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    As a guy who champions the lot of native Americans, I speak like them when I say: “Yellow man (Guan Eng) speaks with forked tongue.”
    Go round to all the poor Malay households in Penang (on the island and mainland) and check whether it’s true that those perceived to be supporters of BN were not given any help, especially before the last Raya. Only those who were deemed Pas, PKR and DAP supporters were given packets of rice, flour, cooking oil and cash. The poorest of the poor, who were deemed Umno supporters, got nothing!

    Reply
  • 2. calvinsankaran  |  April 16, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Wow Helen you had been busy and productive over the weekend and seems like I had missed lots of fun indeed !

    Reading these articles churned out by the likes of Hosanna chillingly reminds me of Orwell’s novel 1984. I think the Dear Leaders of DAP have learnt much from the novel on how to control thoughts and spread propaganda. Theese Big Brothers of DAP has embraced the Orwellian ideals and principles and have also inpired the extensive use of “newspeak” among their party faithfuls,

    For example the term “blackwhite” – “applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest”.

    I think this Hosanna also displays as mastery of Duckspeak which is a “term meaning literally to quack like a duck or to speak without thinking. Duckspeak can be either good or “ungood” (bad), depending on who is speaking, and whether what they are saying is in following with the ideals of Big Brother. To speak rubbish and lies may be ungood, but to speak rubbish and lies for the good of “The Party” may be good.”

    Reply
  • 3. Alex Lee  |  April 16, 2012 at 9:41 am

    well i was wondering. actually i have a question here and i would like to hear some opinions. if MCA, MIC and all the other component parties of the BN except UMNO and Mahmud Taib’s party are decimated in the coming GE13, would PAS be smart enough to offer UMNO and Taib’s party the opportunity to form the Federal Government with the stipulation that the next government must pursue the Islamic State agenda forcefully. PAS won’t be able to turn Malaysia into an Islamic State if it continues with DAP and PKR even if they do win the GE13 anyway, not from what we’re hearing from the mainstream and alternative media. besides that, it would be very tempting indeed for UMNO and Taib to work with PAS if it means UMNO and Taib continue to stay in power with PAS’ support. So i humbly would like to hear the opinions of the readers here. thanks.

    Reply
    • 4. HuaYong  |  April 16, 2012 at 10:33 am

      from a general outlook, that seem possible, however what i would suggest is that u draw up in very clear form the number of seats won by each party to make your question more specific. bear in mind that pas n umno battle each other in constituency that share similar demographic mixed, with malay/muslim as majority.

      Reply
    • 5. Wakiki  |  April 16, 2012 at 12:53 pm

      UMNO, being the main party in the BN would’ve turned the country into a limb and head cutting police state if they wanted to. After all, they are the government. Well, as you said, if PAS desperately want to lead the country minus Anwar Ibrahim, they would sure invite UMNO to form the government IF UMNO is not able to form the government on its own. Alternatively, can chinese form a government without the help of the Malays? How many seats do chinese being represented in the parliament. Don’t be so naive, Malaysians have been as racist as ever. So, in conclusion, don’t rock the boat. It’s sailing just fine.

      Reply
      • 6. I hate N'Sync  |  April 16, 2012 at 2:16 pm

        Alternatively, can chinese form a government without the help of the Malays?

        – Wakiki

        I think this is the most important point here.

        The Chinese, if continue to think of forming a government along ethnic cooperation lines and elite bargaining method, will be under mob-rule. It is time we learn to move beyond ethnic representation politics and base our fight on the common good. Yes, it is idealistic, but ethnic sentiments can be a hindrance.

        Reply
    • 7. calvinsankaran  |  April 16, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      Interesting question indeed Alex.

      Many of these DAPsters don’t know that PAS has no love at all for their racist little organization.If they can’t even get along with a Malay and Muslim party such as UMNO,what there is to like about DAP? The same can be said of PKR where it is a known fact that the PAS leaders think Anwar and his PKR leadership are a bunch of corrupt and immoral thugs. They will join forces with UMNO to form the govt.

      The only reason why PAS is sticking with DAP and PKR is that they are the supreme opportunists who will sell their soul to the devil in order to achieve their ultimate objective of Talibanization of Malaysia.

      Of course DAP too has no love for PAS either and they too are trying to use PKR and PAS as stepping stone to gain power. They will be hoping to split the Malay votes between UMNO, PAS and PKR so they (DAP) can emerge the strongest party.

      DAP knows PKR leaders are only interested in positions and enrich themselves materially. They also think a weakened PAS will not be able to push for an Islamic state. They are hoping that with PKR,PAS and UMNO kill off each other, DAP will be able to emerge the strongest and push for their agenda of replacing the NEP and Article 153 as well as withdrawing all the bumi special rights with their brand of meritocracy.

      However, the problem is they are not very smart and badly miscalculated. If PAS finds DAP to be the strongest party, then they will surely form an alliance with UMNO to form the govt since a weak UMNO will have no choice but to give in to PAS’ demands of Talibanization of Malaysia – Hudud and Islamic state.

      So the implication of the Chinese voting overwhelmingly for DAP and PR and punish BN will, paradoxically, bring the result that they fear most. In fact it will be the Chinese who will push UMNO into the arms of PAS.

      And that will be the end of the Chinese wet dream of Malaysia without NEP.

      Reply
      • 8. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 16, 2012 at 6:14 pm

        a good assement of possible outcome of PRU13.

        Reply
      • 9. KPS  |  April 16, 2012 at 6:51 pm

        I concur with KPanjang,the Dapsters in their excitement have forgotten that this scenario is possible and if that happens NEP will continue for another 999 years and the Dapsters will have to migrate to who cares country.

        Reply
      • 10. Alex Lee  |  April 17, 2012 at 9:52 am

        Thank you for your insight Calvin. I thought about the same thing too. The Chinese community, by voting overwhelmingly for the DAP and in the process, decimating MCA and the other Chinese based BN component parties, is actually paving the way for PAS to impose their agenda. With the other BN component parties gone, PAS’ relative bargaining power increases, thus driving UMNO into a corner whereby the only option left for UMNO (and Taib’s group) is to seek an alliance with PAS. Previously and up till now, UMNO (and by extension Taib’s group) can afford not to talk to PAS because they still have the MCA and the other BN component parties to back them up. If you are PAS, of if I m PAS, the thing you would/I would do is to tell the DAP to canvass all the Chinese votes and decimate the Chinese BN component parties and then seek out UMNO after the GE13. That would be killing 2 birds with one stone.

        Reply
      • 11. 7777ismyname  |  April 17, 2012 at 11:14 am

        Fantastic assessment, Calvin.

        Reply
  • 12. Az  |  April 16, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Most people that are blinded by hatred led by their racist and ‘holier than thou’ dear leader…mostly are (i assumed) are chinese christians…it’s rather weird that chinese buddhist, confusianism and others become their cult followers (maybe not all)..please don’t think that western values are the best, the chinese civilization are much superior and advance compared to them, and we lived in harmony for many years…I believe the system will change to be better but not at this current situation. If you look at the Hui people in China, they are muslims and yet they can live peacefully with a communist government. Only in Malaysia it seems that the Chinese feels that they being marginalize for reasons i simply don’t understand, are the Chinese people being force to join islam? Force to learn Malays and malays customs and culture? Cannot earn and make money? Force to defend the country as policemen and armies? Cannot buy lands and houses? Cannot do business?

    Reply
  • 13. Adait Aman  |  April 16, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I am convinced that the real reaon why Hannah made a crusade of her child being classified thus, is because she is a RACIST.

    She is unwilling to allow her child to be labeled as Indian (following the child’s father) or worse the derogatory Keling (which is wrong) or Chiling or Keching.

    Why Hannah, embarassed that your hubby is an Indian? Fret not, there are many out there who are in your shoes.

    Being the shrewd politician that you are, you have managed turn the whole situation to her political advantage.

    Reply
  • 14. Alex Lee  |  April 17, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Thank you to all of you for your valuable opinions to the question I posed. To HuaYong, as we all know there are 222 parliamentary seats at the moment so the numbers I present here is just theoretical. For GE13, seats won (theoretical), UMNO 70, Taib’s group 20, the other component parties of BN 0 (because as I posed in my earlier question, they have been decimated), PAS 30, PKR and DAP combined 102. I would like to hear opinions on my take of this matter, although at this point all this is just theoretical and assumptive.

    Reply
    • 15. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 11:01 am

      Alex, thought provoking question again. Let me give my 2 sens. Let’s make some suppositions based on general consensus on the voters’ sentiments today, that is the Chinese will vote overwhelmingly in favor of DAP while UMNO gets the lion’s share of Malay votes. While not looking at seat by seat and making a big picture analysis, this is my take.

      – UMNO will retain 79 seats
      – MIC/MCA/Gerakan/PPP lose all seats to DAP
      – Sarawak seats status quo (16 seats)
      – DAP wins 48 seats
      – PAS/PKR status quo (54 seats)
      – Sabah situation status quo (11 seats)

      In this case, BN (UMNO plus Sarawak/Sabah parties) will have 106 seats versus PR’s 102 seats. But we know that Sabah parties are easily swayed so if DAP and Anwar (an acknowledged frog buying expert) can “convince” the Sabah parties,then we will have BN’s 95 vs PR’s 113.

      However, in this equation PAS will be the biggest loser as it will be the junior partner (with only 23 seats). As such,PAS will have all the motivations to leave PR and join BN to form the new government. If they join BN, they get to form the govt and will be guaranteed to have senior cabinet posts and huge concessions on Islamic state and Hudud. They will never get the same power and concessions in a PR govt especially so when the strongest party in PR will be DAP (with 48 seats).

      So if the Chinese vote for DAP in droves as the sentiments on the ground seems to indicate,there is a good possibility that they will finally rewarded with Hudud, Islamic state and the an never ending NEP since UMNO will be forced to rely solely on Malay votes to survive.

      Reply
      • 16. Anon  |  April 17, 2012 at 12:35 pm

        I have a high regard for calvinsankaran’s opinions and arguments. But doubt his forecast above. No offence intended.

        Until and unless forecasts are based on detailed analysis, constituency-by-constituency, of the of the small-win seats of PRU12, wins and size of wins will continue be anybody’s guess.

        My guess now is that BN will win by considerably more seats than the above. The issue is only whether it’ll be a 2/3 majority or not.

        To my mind, the following are the key considerations:

        – the factors that have caused changes in perception since Pakatan Rakyat took power in 2008 viz, mainly cakap tak serupa bikin, all the weaknesses that BN has, PR also has, even starting from 1-2 years in power

        – a return to the fold of those who voted PR out of disgust with Pak Lah and have since regretted their action or simply say they have vented their frustration enough and now wish to return to their traditional point of support (I know there are many but unable to state a figure)

        – the effects of the “feel good” programme carried out by Najib

        – the courting of the young voters, including on FB, 1Malaysia etc

        If flags are any indication, in many parts of Selangor now, BN flags are certainly fluttering much more in numbers than PR flags – often only PKR flags are seen. Indeed, at PRU12, quite a number of constituencies with less BN flags than at PRU11 went to the Opposition. Politics they say is a game of perception. The kampong folks are still influenced by what they see on the way to the polling booths. Flag visibility does contribute to a perception of popularity. The fellows who take the trouble to ensure many BN flags flutter also do campaigning to the last minute.

        Reply
      • 17. Iqraq  |  April 19, 2012 at 6:32 pm

        http://drmaza.com/home/?p=1415

        Reply
    • 18. HuaYong  |  April 17, 2012 at 5:57 pm

      alex, basically u need 2/3 to change the law for islamic state, and that is why i highlight the gain of pas meant umno loss and vice versa. i try to work out the combination of seats before, pas need to win 60 seats and above. u shall try again, it is pretty fun.

      Reply
      • 19. Helen Ang  |  April 17, 2012 at 8:58 pm

        Can you elaborate on what you mean by “2/3 to change the law for islamic state”?

        I once bumped into Hj Sulaiman Abdullah (former president of the M’sian Bar) at one of those forums on Islamic issues – incidentally one where Prof. Aziz Bari was speaker – & he (HSA) clarified to me that only a simple majority is needed in Parliament to amend the law to enable the implementation of hudud.

        Kelantan & T’ganu (when the latter was under PAS rule) have already enacted hudud laws but haven’t carried out the penalties b’cos federal law does not allow the individual states to prescribe (Penal Code) punishments for criminal offences.

        So in order for hudud’s chopping off limbs, stoning, etc to be implemented, the federal law needs to be amended in order for the state laws on hudud punishments to be legal b’cos the FedCon is supreme in the land. This is what I understand from Zaid Ibrahim’s filing a court case in the 1990s against against the PAS hudud — a suit which he later withdrew.

        Again, the ex-bar president gave his learned opinion that only simple majority is required from MPs for hudud.

        Perhaps you could enlighten us on what or which area of the law (vis-a-vis the role of our Parliamentarians as federal legislators) or which article in the FedCon that you mean when you say “two-thirds” majority?

        Secondly, I disagree that PAS needs xyz number of seats.

        You forget that the MPs in Umno (& PKR) are Malay too. What makes you think they won’t support their PAS colleagues if the PAS motion is closer in keeping to their personal conscience as good Muslims? Zul Nordin is not in the PAS headcount. How do you think he’d vote? Or Ibrahim Ali who’s not PAS either?

        After all, we Chinese can cross party lines for the common purpose of supporting vernacular education, c.f. the Suqiu requests in 1987. Why shouldn’t Muslim MPs be bipartisan in this matter of faith?

        Reply
      • 20. HuaYong  |  April 17, 2012 at 11:14 pm

        From LKS “Secondly, that PAS on its might win two-thirds of 193 Parliamentary seats – i.e. at least 129 seats – in the next general election, so that it could singly amend the Malaysian Constitution to establish an Islamic State. This is because even if PAS wins 97 seats on its own to secure a simple majority, it would not have the two-thirds majority to amend the constitution to establish an Islamic state. The question of PAS winning one-third, let alone two-thirds, majority of the Parliamentary seats in the next election cannot arise when PAS will not be fielding as many as 97 Parliamentary candidates in the next election. ”

        Frankly i dont know. All this while my impression is that we need a 2/3 majority to amend the constitution on most issue Are we given an incorrect message?

        On xyz seat, i believe PAS should have win enough seats to make a deal, does your xyz include one seat?
        ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        Hua Yong,

        Only certain protected articles (e.g. 153) need 2/3 plus consent of Ruler’s Conference but enabling a certain type of punishment (e.g. chopping hands) is procedural, so I’d take HSA’s word for it.

        DAP is deliberately being deceitful by giving the false impression that PAS needs 129 seats. Consider this: When MCA organized its hudud forum featuring Chandra as speaker, it was the DAPsters who defended hudud & attacked MCA (instead of criticizing PAS for its desiring hudud). Stressing the impossibility of PAS getting 129 seats is a straw man reassurance.

        Think carefully & deeply about this, i.e. the DAP chameleon politicking that twists & turns coupled with the shallowness of their mindless messengers such as Hosanna. They’re so power hungry that they recognize no boundaries of truth.

        Helen

        Reply
      • 21. calvinsankaran  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:49 am

        HuaYong,

        What makes you think that DAP itself won’t support Hudud/Islamic State law if it ever gets tabled. If doing so will benefit DAP and their cronies, I am sure DAP leaders will turn apologists and sell the Chinese interests in a heartbeat.

        They are already defending Hudud today and their leaders like LGE and Hannah are already bending backwards to get Malay votes by reciting Quran or pretending to be promoting Islamic policies.

        I see very little different between Anwar the chameleon and DAP the fake socialists. We notice how quickly Dear Leader Lim went from a humble socialist grassroot leader to capitalist dictator. So it would not shock me if DAP if they support the Islamic state & Hudud law if that allows them to positions of power and lucrative business deals for them and their cronies.

        Reply
      • 22. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 9:54 am

        Calvin, everything is possible in politic Another possibility is PAS may drop their Islamic State agenda for the sake of power sharing, or prefer a gradual approach to achieve their goal, unless you are against Islamic State, otherwise you should respect the Muslim right to pursue what they think is best for them, provided not to impose their value into others. Confucius said “tyrannical government is fiercer than a tiger”, perhaps the people now realize that Islamic law is much better than a corrupted regime, and thus make a choice?

        From another angle, if DAP is that short sighted to collaborate with PAS concerning Islamic State purely for power, it is up to the people to continue support or reject them, we have GE every 5 years. Thus your speculation is hmmm….remain speculation.
        ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        Hua Yong,

        “Islamic law is much better than a corrupted regime”? Oh, and incorruptible DAP-Pakatan is squeaky clean, izzit? No corruption in the countries with Islamic law like Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan?

        And in your opinion “provided not to impose their value into others” has been observed?

        Helen

        Reply
      • 23. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:38 am

        Helen, after I think deeply and carefully, I wish to state that unless we have a clear definition of Islamic State, otherwise I prefer to stick to my claim of two third majority for Islamic State. DAP is not the only party that give such ‘false’ impression, in fact almost everybody did that. I agree with you that chop hand could be procedural, just like if we wish to do away with death penalty, but is Islam or our constitution allow fractional implementation of the divine law? I don’t know, maybe a lawyer can help to explain.

        Reply
      • 24. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:39 am

        oh sis, i state my stand start with confucius idiom and even include the word ‘perhaps’, ‘perhaps’ you should comprehend and interpret what I write not through the prism of absolutism?

        Reply
      • 25. lousy.engineer  |  April 18, 2012 at 7:05 pm

        Hua Yong wrote in one of his/her comment:

        ….otherwise you should respect the Muslim right to pursue what they think is best for them, provided not to impose their value into others…. [Bold emphasis mine].

        – This, I disagree. We have already seen some subtle Islamic elements creeping in Malaysia for years, for example, at government agencies. There was a news recently whereby a Chinese woman was denied entry to a government department in Johor because she’s wearing sleeveless blouse (I can’t find the link, but it’s reported in TheStar sometime ago). There is now dress code to adhere to when you want to do your stuff at government departments (Don’t wear clothes that poke eyes). Also, look at our national schools (which are now shunned by non-Malay parents nowadays), bacaan doa is already a norm now at weekly assembly. See how moral policing is also affecting non-Muslims (an American couple was raided by religious officers in Langkawi at the middle of the night). And all these stuffs happen right in front of our eyes even before hudud law is being implemented.

        See more here:
        The dilemma of moral policing
        Moral police need policing, too

        Most Chinese out there are probably brain-washed by those like Jackson Ng (whose writings frequently appear in FMT, MK) who keeps bashing MCA for bringing up hudud law issue, which I think is a legitimate topic that most non-Muslims deserve to understand more. DAP needs to honestly make a stand on this instead of diverting the issue into something along the argument “Islamic law is much better than a corrupted regime” (in Hua Yong’s words).
        ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        You’re definitely correct in your assessment of Jackson Ng. Hua Yong & his ilk are like the frogs obliviously boiling in warm water. — Helen

        Reply
      • 26. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 8:55 pm

        lousy engineer,

        I’ve said stuff…if you choose to ignore them, fine by me; if you choose not to ignore them, fine by me, but why cut and paste only part of my comment? Is that how engineering process work? Let me know how I should rephrase my statement to make you agree. As for Helen, it certainly takes one to know one.

        Reply
      • 27. Iqraq  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:23 pm

        Can I please clarify for the record that ‘moral policing’ ie raiding hotels etc is NOT what Islam teaches? We are not supposed to ‘cari dan dedahkan aib orang lain’. It is wrong and completely opposite to the example Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) set for us in the sunnah. Unfortunately the clerics we have in government institutions are not really familiar with the sunnah and seem to function with different motives.

        Reply
      • 28. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 12:44 pm

        If Umno as pay back to the Chinese, agrees to the Pas hudud law as law of the land, then we will see real fireworks.

        Then we shall see the winner as Islam, the recent Kedah state fatwa power act , shows PAS hudud still simmer below the surface.

        As a Muslim i have problem of its implementation on me .

        Reply
      • 29. lousy.engineer  |  April 20, 2012 at 6:32 pm

        Hua Yong,

        Let’s put it this way; do you support hudud law / Islamic state or not? From your comments , you seems to insinuate that as long as the corrupted regime (I assumed you meant BN in this case) is gotten rid off, apa pun boleh, including turning Malaysia into an Islamic state. Is that your take? Is that the take of most Chinese nowadays?

        If your answer is yes, then I’ll suggest you think twice. Our forefathers founded this country on the secular basis (although Malaysia is no longer as secular as she was in the old times :(), and I really hope it’s kept that way, at least, until I have drawn my last breath in Malaysia. Go read Haris’ writing from last year on Islamic state.

        Reply
      • 30. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:11 pm

        thanks not truly a lousy engineer, will reply in more detail when i have time, a quick one, I don’t support hudud and islamic state (we need more clear definition of islamic state before delve deeper), and please dont interpret my statement base on false dichotomy. cheers.

        Reply
      • 31. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:43 pm

        MAJOR CORRECTION it shoul read :-

        As a Muslim i have NO problems of its implementation on me

        Reply
      • 32. HuaYong  |  April 21, 2012 at 9:05 am

        Lousy Engineer,

        We have to be honest to ourselves, under whose administration all thing you mentioned happen? PAS don’t send thug to disrupt assembly and dialog, PAS remain the party less corrupted, PAS not the one that arrest Chinese for alleged immoral act, PAS not the one that change your religion upon death, Kelantan remain peaceful during 513, PAS don’t detain people with excuse to protect them, PAS don’t call me and you as pendatang, Pas have many leaders that ethically much better than UMNO. Let us think about it, who is getting the government we deserve, Helen or me?

        Chinese now perceive thing in a more comprehensive and inclusive manner, OB think Malay change but Chinese change is much thorough, hey, we give our vote to PAS.

        You may disagree with me, I believe in neutralized approach, if there is more Chinese to support PAS and there is more Malay to support DAP, those far left mentalitity would be neutralized and move to middle. It is up to you to label them as hypocrite, or inclusive and pragmatic.

        Reply
  • 33. Anon  |  April 17, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Haha, Alex, my opinion is BN wins 200 and PR 22. No need to explain, because it’s an opinion, innit?

    Reply
    • 34. Anon  |  April 17, 2012 at 11:06 am

      I can even have that opinion justified, Alex. Read what Borneo Post says:

      BN expected to win two-thirds majority in general election

      Posted on April 17, 2012, Tuesday

      JOHOR BAHARU: The Barisan Nasional (BN) has been forecast to continue to maintain its power after the 13th general election and to recapture several states which are now administered by the opposition party, according to a study by the Special Affairs Department (Jasa).

      The director of the Jasa Psychological Operations Division, Taharuddin Yaakob said the study by the government agency showed that the BN would regain the two-third majority in the coming general election.

      Reply
    • 35. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 2:10 pm

      Hi Anon,

      This is to reply your point # 16. Just to clarify, the scenario that I painted is not my prediction but mere simulation on what could happen if the Chinese voters decided to punish BN Chinese parties and throw their full support behind the racist DAP.

      Of course it is my belief too that BN will secure a more decisive victory in GE13.

      The above message was meant for the Chinese audience with a little reminder on how their actions could be unintended consequences at their own expense when it comes to their votes in the next GE.

      Reply
  • 36. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Helen, HINDRAF has declared war on Anwar and the flyers and posters were out over the weekend. It will be interesting if PKR’s thugs will try to harass HINDRAF’s gathering at Klang, which might rub the PKR the wrong way since it is in Selangor, a state under PKR. Klang is also the home of several PKR leaders like Dr Xavier, who is trying his best to get into the good books of Anwar in view of the GE (since he has been kicked out of the party leadership in the last election).

    BTW, you might want to take offer some views on the DAP’s own Malaysian First-version HINDRAF – the INDRAF. Apparently helmed by the Chief Mandor Prof Rama (the title itself is a matter of controversy, it is more like self-awarded) and others such as Ganabatirau and Kengadharan. Anti-Interlok committee’s Thasleem also plan to join the fun.They planning for a rally May 27 (0527) and have their own 10 points demand, which are trully hilarious. BTW Thasleem is also another of those serial-demonstrator who also in the BERSIH crowd.

    As for their demands, they want a NEP for Indians ! I wonder what the Dear Leader has to say about this since DAP is dead set against the NEP and diametrically opposed to their Utopian ideal of meritocracy.

    Since this is driven by DAP, I wonder why all these have not ALREADY implemented in Pakatan states, especially in Penang where the Chief Mandor Rama is the DCM2.

    What completely baffles me how does this INDRAF demands and intiative sits with the divine and utopian principles set out in the Dear Leader’s the Little Red Book of Malaysia First.

    Helen, with your deep knowledge of DAP’s newspeak and duckspeak, can you please enlighten us the mere mortals so we could see how these two conflicting and contradictory principles can be one and the same?
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Calvin,

    “PKR’s thugs will try to harass Hindraf’s gathering at Klang” — I heard from the horse’s mouth that some thugs did harass the Hindraf volunteers in Klang (the event you mentioned).

    As for the DAP creating its own ‘Hindraf’, I’m not at all surprised at their duplicity & the opportunists who are jumping on the bandwagon.

    Helen

    Reply
    • 37. I hate N'Sync  |  April 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm

      JPA experimented with a quota for intake of Indian civil servants a few years ago. Don’t know the status now, but it is a wrong move.

      Reply
      • 38. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 2:14 pm

        As far as I know, this was a success with the % of Indians in civil service has increased significantly, though I do not have the data on hand. This is what I gather from reading the Tamil media. Ya, like Mr KPanjang, I wonder why you think it is a wrong move, care to explain ?

        Reply
      • 39. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 17, 2012 at 4:23 pm

        calvin, base on my casual observation at Iskandar CIQ, the number of Indian, sabahan and sarawakian are now more noticeable in the immigration staff section.
        Unlike before, where it was rare to see non malays.

        Reply
      • 40. I hate N'Sync  |  April 17, 2012 at 6:56 pm

        Correcting the ethnic imbalance in the civil service is not achieved by setting a quota in reverse. Hiring should be based on merit and if the hiring agency cannot trust itself in carrying out that assessment fairly, it can seek to set a weightage for ethnic minorities or percentage of hiring based on ethnic preference. For example, would you give all Ibans who apply an automatic added weightage or do you, hire on the basis of merit 90% of the time, and use the remaining 10% to hire based on ethnic preference?

        The latter has one advantage, it can help the civil service get a picture of how handicapped the hiring process is if it is based on merit alone, or the cost/difference in merit if we hire by ethnic preference. This is the real gap that we should be trying to address, not taint all capable Ibans using a flat quota.

        Reply
    • 41. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 2:20 pm

      When did this happen? If I am not mistaken the event will be on the 22nd April, this Sunday. Was it during the distribution of flyers ? The same happened in Penang at Market Street. Some DAP (not PKR) thugs tried to create some problems to those HINDRAF folks distributing flyers and pasting posters during the last weekend. Though it didn’t turn into a fight, there were some exchanges of words. But Klang being the home of some of the worst PKR thugs,I can imagine things could turn ugly. BTW I also predict the event on the 22nd April will be marred by fights. I bet PKR folks are now planning to sabotage the event.
      _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      It was during the distribution of flyers in Klang. — Helen

      Reply
  • 42. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 17, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    n,sync, why awrong move?

    Reply
  • 43. Hussin Rahman  |  April 17, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    I wanted to puke every time I see the word DAP or DAPsters. Dunno why….

    Reply
  • 44. calvinsankaran  |  April 17, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Talking about Ramakrishnan, I think he’s fishing for a MP ticket under Pakatan, likely under DAP. It wouldn’t come as a shock considering many previously “neutral” NGO leaders are now have become full-time politicians. But I think chances of these folks getting seats are slim since there is already a world war 3 going on within DAP for the seats. At most Rama can only hope for a senatorship.

    Reply
    • 45. Helen Ang  |  April 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      Hi Calvin,

      The reason I thought the two other discussions could be pulled together here is b’cos one idea runs through the threads, i.e. Pakatan is selling itself as being more moral (possessing more “integrity”, measured by the Haris Ibrahim meter) than the incumbents.

      Aliran’s ex-prez Ramakrisnan makes a long laundry list of BN’s sins as well as motherhood statements about the ‘goodness of Pakatan’ (like corny advertisement for mother’s milk).

      Are Pakatan politicians really of a better calibre than BN’s? Yeah, we can compile all the wrongs done by & under BN rule but do we buy into the sell that everything BN has done Pakatan guarantee won’t do? That Pakatan leaders are incapable of corruption b’cos they’ve been portrayed as near perfect, incorruptible human beings?

      Reply
      • 46. I hate N'Sync  |  April 17, 2012 at 8:09 pm

        The government of Malaysia spends almost RM422.5 million a year for the Skim Bantuan Orang Tua under JKMM which benefits over 120,000 elderly at the rate of RM300 per month. Better yet, the scheme is given to the needy elderly. Sure, there might be defects in targeting mechanisms, but RM100 a year for registered older voters and you go to the streets with THAT?

        Reply
    • 47. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:41 am

      Rama is an ‘expired’ tool. I don’t think he’s going to contest under any ticket. Besides how many voters know Rama ? As for ‘neutral’, that’s as good as saying that ” I’m going to offer myself to the highest bidder “. As for the identity of the bidder, your guess is good as mine.

      Reply
  • 48. Solaris  |  April 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Helen, you wrote in your other article, New ‘party’ joins Pakatan … almost, that ‘Aliran is supposed to be a non-partisan NGO championing the cause of social justice. But they behave more like a wannabe political party diligently canvassing for Pakatan, don’t you think?’ Absolutely.

    Aliran, that once respected, independent voice of the people and Malaysia’s oldest human rights group is now nothing more than a willing campaigner for PR, devoid of all objectivity and direction. A shame and a tragedy.

    A tragedy because instead of upholding their proclamation of ‘planting the seeds of public awareness of critical political, economic and social issues,’ they have sold out all their principles of independence and neutrality by openly supporting one political entity and demonising its foe instead of being equally appreciative or critical of both.

    Aliran has truly lost its principles, direction and sense of identity. Whatever puerile excuse or rationale they may have for being prejudiced, they seem to be ignorant of the shameful fact that they are now willing advocates and defenders of PR’s proclamations, policies and practices, right or wrong, and outright critiques of BN, right or wrong.

    A multi-ethnic reform movement supposedly guided by universal spiritual values and dedicated to justice, freedom and solidarity and upholding human dignity and promoting social justice for all Malaysians has no business being politically biased. Whither its integrity?

    Reply
  • 49. koteypanjang  |  April 17, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    RPK aka pete, is at it again but this the first part of ranting seen to take a lead of what some readers and helen’s view of the Dapster clan, well at least the first of it any way.

    Try this link and read latest ranting at

    ” Let’s ban people who believe in God from public office

    http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/no-holds-barred/48741-lets-ban-people-who-believe-in-god-from-public-office
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Thanks. Will have a look. — Helen

    Reply
  • 50. ahmad nasir  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:06 am

    *** [this comment is not seeing the light of day]
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    yawn, at it again Ahmad Nasir? …

    Personal attacks on me – wild accusations, unsubstantiated allegations – will not be entertained. Frankly, I’ve had it up to here with you people. Freedom of expression is not equivalent to wild, wild west anything goes DAPsterism.

    Helen

    Reply
  • 51. calvinsankaran  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:30 am

    Ahmad Nasir another member from the KOMTAR Gestapo ?

    Reply
    • 52. Helen Ang  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:40 am

      He alleged: “Did you have a crush on one of the Dapsters and being turn down? Perhaps LGE?”

      Previously he had made other run-of-the-mill DAPster smears.

      No, I don’t think he’s Komtar Gestapo. And no, I don’t think he’s Chinese masquerading as Malay or that he’s a member of DAP either.

      I junked his comment in toto (incl. the rest of his views) to draw a line in the sand that the relentless personal attacks – conjuring up simply any speculation plucked from thin air – is not on & I don’t have to put up with it, least of all in my own blog.

      Reply
      • 53. calvinsankaran  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:53 am

        BTW, don’t forget to check out the new DAP’s campaign album “Ubah”. I understand it contains songs by many of our favourite DAPsters…..
        ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        Their Marketing & Promotion exercises as slick as the western evangelists. — Helen

        Reply
    • 54. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:27 am

      well Calvin, truth be told, the KOMTAR gang should be called the Stasi, not the Gestapo.

      Reply
      • 55. Helen Ang  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:39 am

        Interesting point to ponder, Alex. A Stasi-Gestapo hybrid? But the two orgs belong to different eras. Gestapo evokes their brutality, like a certain polsec’s reputation.

        Reply
  • 56. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Thank you HuaYong for your comment. I personally do not think you need 2/3 majority to turn Malaysia into an Islamic state.

    If we look at the laws that we currently have regarding Islam, most of them were and are not enforced as vigorously as stated in the statutes. As shuzheng said on his blog, most of the laws are already in place, all that needs to be done is enforce them, and enforce them forcefully, as in the saying ‘give flesh to the bones’.

    As Calvin said, there’s the PKR Malays. They could well vote along with PAS and the UMNO Malays. Even Zul Noordin said that there are currently 155 Malay-Muslim MPs in parliament. If all of them vote yes, that’s it. Islamic state.

    Putting aside the question of how many seats both sides could win in the GE13, if the final tally says, for instance 148 seats won by Malay-Muslim MPs, and if they all coalesce around the UMNO-PAS-Taib alliance, that’s it, they will have their Islamic state.

    But then again this is my own personal view. 148 = 2/3 majority.

    So Helen, what’s your take ? What about you Calvin ? I hope the readers here could comment on this because this matter is of national interest. It affects all of us, not just Malays, Chinese, Indians, or the other minorities.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My take is that voters like Hua Yong deserve the govt (or state) that they get. — Helen

    Reply
    • 57. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:32 am

      well Helen, the thing with these Dapster Doublethinkers is that if the Islamic state becomes a reality, they will instead blame UMNO for seducing PAS into an ‘unholy’ alliance and go around town telling Chinese voters that UMNO’s behind all this.

      Reply
      • 58. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 10:55 am

        WHY chinese so afraid of hudud law?, the chinese in kelantant sees ok with the idea?

        Reply
  • 59. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 11:08 am

    so alex, do you think in the next 10 or 20 years the Malay Muslim MP will increase or decrease? is our country moving toward more islamic or less Islamis in the past 20 years? it is a matter you face the issue now, or later. bring it on and let the people decide.

    Reply
  • 60. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 11:16 am

    btw alex, did shuzheng tell you this :

    To reduce someone’s influence, first expand it;
    To reduce someone’s force, first increase it;
    To overthrow someone, first exalt them;
    To take from someone, first give to them.

    Reply
    • 61. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:03 pm

      well HuaYong, we read blogs to hear the perspective of the persons behind the blogs.

      If we read them and decide that the persons’ view’s do not conform to the views we hold, and we start to demonize them, or for that matter, if we decide that the views presented fit into what we hold them to be dear to us and exalt them, then we are not being objective.

      A person writes a blog to present his/her views. As for what i mentioned from shuzheng’s blog, that ‘most of the laws are already in place, all that needs to be done is enforce them, and enforce them forcefully’, well can anyone here say that all the relevant Islamic laws are not yet in place and therefore, can’t be enforced forcefully ?

      Or that the institutions pertaining to Islam are not here yet and therefore the laws can’t be enforced ?

      As for ‘give flesh to the bones’, the laws are in place, the institutions are already in place, enforce them, that’s the context I was referring to. It is up to you, or for that matter, the rest of us here to come to our own conclusions.

      Reply
    • 62. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:04 pm

      wise words, who’s quote is it?

      Reply
  • 63. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 11:36 am

    “bring it on and let the people decide” that sounds like the typical slogan of the opposition.

    But leaving that aside and get into the discussion, if I’m not mistaken, Helen you mentioned in one of your articles (I can’t remember the date actually), that sometime over the next 20 years the Chinese population will drop from the current 25% (correct me if I’m wrong) to below 20% (18.5%, again correct me if I’m wrong).

    From the way I look at it, if demographics is a guide to future allocations of state and parliamentary seats, the number of Chinese seats, or for that matter, the seats of other minorities, will only decrease while the Malay seats will only increase.

    With the Islamization we have right now, do you think that 20 years from now our society would be more secular or theocratic? Would the Muslim majority, the absolute Muslim majority by then, given that 20 years is still a long way from now, would then decide that, the time is appropriate that Malaysia be a full fledged Islamic state?

    I can’t answer that because, well I could be settled somewhere else, in a another country by that time frame. But for those still here 20 years from now, that’s another story altogether.

    So my question, as with my previous questions, were and is based on the premise that we, the readers of this blog have a rational discussion of the issue, not here to say “let’s bring em on” or that sort of attitude.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Projection by ISEAS researcher, Chinese 18.6 percent in year 2035. DAP’s win at-any-cost politicking, having now eroded the remnants of our secularism can only hasten theocracy. — Helen

    Reply
    • 64. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:00 pm

      Actually, helen ,if the scenario, of secularism verses theocracy is just on the horizon like you predict .

      Pru13 vote will be vote into uncharted water for all Malaysian , the new front will be religion. forget the race problems.

      i have not of it being so close to the horizon until now.
      __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      New factor is evangelical DAP dragging Christianity into the picture & PAS’s flip-flop creating uncertainties. — Helen

      Reply
      • 65. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:02 pm

        corr. i have not thought of it being so close to horizon until now.

        Reply
    • 66. HuaYong  |  April 18, 2012 at 2:13 pm

      alex, you write a lot but i am not sure if I get u. u shd pose ur question to shuzheng, he seem to know the answer, secondly, u shd ask him who is the enabler that cause ‘most of the laws are already in place”, dap? and thirdly shuzheng quoted many chinese idiom and poem in his blog, thus my reply to the islamic state issue is via laozi “将欲歙之,必故张之;将欲弱之,必故强之;将欲废之,必故兴之;将欲取之,必故与之。是谓微明。”, if u dun get it, too bad.

      ‘bring it on’ is a counter to helen assertion of “PAS’s flip-flop creating uncertainties”. unlike u I have no place to go and willing to face the issue and reality, and to be honest, I suggest you to do more reading because your comprehension needs improvement, it’s not a bad habit to get into.

      Reply
      • 67. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm

        Helen any ,chance you can translate “将欲歙之,必故张之;将欲弱之,必故强之;将欲废之,必故兴之;将欲取之,必故与之。是谓微明。” or is it too TONAL for non Chinese to understand
        ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        Hahaha, HY should oblige by providing Malay readership a translation lest we fail to get the delicate nuances right to meet his high standards. Dah lah dalam hal (politik DAP/negara Islam) lain kami sesama Cina pun saling bercakaran. — Helen

        Reply
      • 68. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm

        ktp, the translation is at my april 18, 2012 at 11:16 am comment, the ‘wise words’ remember? the hanzi version is for those that have poor comprehension skill just in case. my chinese standard is not high, perhaps slightly higher than helen. actually the quote imply my stance against islamic state, but the subtle approach is not appreciated here even from the host, that’s why beside calling me a dap supporter, not much substance from her yet eh. next time i just call anyone that have a different opinion from my as mca supporter :)
        ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        You have been visiting my blog almost from Day 1. Your many other comments – in which we more often than not tend to disagree – indicate your partiality for DAP. As for language standards, the troll named Sshsn proclaimed that my command of BM is “atrocious”, and a DAPster in MK condemned Beliawanis Tee Hooi Ling as “tak cantik”. There’s no pleasing them. Nothing in this country pleases them (I don’t incl. you among ‘them’, tho ,) — Helen

        Reply
  • 69. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    My view if pas and umno join up , umno may be force to cede to pas demand of an islamic state ,can be control by allowing them to enforce hudud only where muslim population is in 90% bracket or more?.

    What you guys think, will it be acceptable for the non muslims?

    Reply
    • 70. Alex Lee  |  April 18, 2012 at 12:44 pm

      To Kpanjang. If you hold all the cards, why stop at only the 90% bracket ? Or to be more precise Kpanjang, let me ask you this question : Would it be acceptable to you if you already hold all the cards and your partners say ‘no we can’t allow that’ ?

      Reply
      • 71. koteypanjang (Kpanjang)  |  April 18, 2012 at 1:24 pm

        Hmmmmm………………………

        Reply
      • 72. I hate N'Sync  |  April 18, 2012 at 9:30 pm

        Dear Alex,

        Same question I asked. If we play by majority rules, what’s there stopping a fair quota interpretation to 80% or even more. We have seen it happening, Perkasa is already asking why equity holdings shouldn’t be based on national ethnic proportions.

        Some people cannot understand that things shoved down others by the means of simple majority is tyranny.

        Reply
  • 73. Bill  |  April 18, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    PAS and UMNO joining forces? Have you seen how vicious the attacks have been on PAS by UMNO recently. Calling PAS parti ajaran sesat I m sure the PAS people will not forget it There have been comments by pas bloggers that it is genuinely hurtful especially since umno courts them when it suits their agenda
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Have you counted how many times the 2 parties have held their covert unity talks? — Helen

    Reply
    • 74. koteypanjang  |  April 18, 2012 at 8:28 pm

      Bill, likewise The Chinese dapster comments also hurt a lot of malays , if thing don’t go PR way this PRU13 , the ULtra’s in BN will have their proff that working with MCA and Gerakan is A waste of time.

      Also Pas and PKR member may slowly gravitate back into BN,
      What of the chinese what is there to go back . Gerakan and MCA decimated by your own actions.

      But what do i care, its your decision, you got to live with it, later on.

      “Guruh dilangit disangkakan hujan “

      Reply
    • 75. forrestcat  |  April 18, 2012 at 8:35 pm

      hahajaja..seeems this dapster is plained silly and worried…do you think the PAS malays sit quietly while u leap insults on the malays or as you say in dapster double speak as imperialist umno…do u really think PAS malayd ar stupid as not to read between the lines and s,ell ur rabid hatred of the malays…smell the coffee my dapster friend

      Reply
    • 76. Alex Lee  |  April 19, 2012 at 10:18 am

      well thank you Helen, I now know why you mentioned that HuaYong and his ilk deserve the kind of Government they get. All throughout the questions I posed on your blog, whenever I, you or anyone else posed something that sounded uncomfortable to him, he would respond with the typical opposition supporter’s attitude of brushing aside the points we’d mentioned. Or the occasional denial. And if all else fails, you get the typical disdainful response “i suggest you to do more reading because your comprehension needs improvement”. And Helen, one more thing, unlike opposition blogs or news sites where you get insults and bile if you posed something that makes the opposition fanboys uncomfortable, here people can still remain civilized, despite the occasional theatrics.

      Reply
    • 77. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 1:37 pm

      You know what Alex, the problem with you is not that you are stupid, for someone who has written long comment with English, you been able to learn it well; it’s not that you are necessarily illogical, since you can construct a paragraph that is at least consistent, and it’s not that you lack factual knowledge, since you know how to ask relevant question. The problem with you is that you have an overinflated sense of self-importance resulting in a complete dearth of tolerance for any opinion that deviates from your own. And your stereotypical response is a bursting of useless verbiage that says in long comment what could have been said in a short one. And your not willing to get off the high horse that your world exists only in the space between your ears, but have no guild feel to blab about others’ attitude and engage in name calling, while still act as if you are talking relevant issue. I suggest you use the nick (smart) Alec Lee, it certainly suit you much better.

      PS/ To Shuzheng, “不好意思”通常用于口语,书写或正式的社交场合,我们最好还是用“很抱歉”。 “您感觉更好吗”有语病,该说”您感觉好些了吗” 。“为了正确路线您割鸡焉用牛刀” ,hmm…我觉得哦,你继续用英文会’更’好。

      Reply
    • 78. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 2:59 pm

      n,sync, interesting point ,”Some people cannot understand that things shoved down others by the means of simple majority is tyranny.”

      I also wonder why Tunku gave away TOTAL majority for simple majority,either very generous or very stupid of him.

      If he did not give and the chinese did not take , we wouldn’t have this problem will we?

      Reply
      • 79. I hate N'Sync  |  April 20, 2012 at 7:31 pm

        Very simple really Kotey, it wasn’t Tunku Abdul Rahman’s decision alone to “give”. For years the honorable man has been blamed for simply being the PM when the citizenship criteria was loosened. Are you aware what was the leftist’s position at that time?

        Reply
      • 80. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 8:28 pm

        please tell us n,sync , the leftist position at that time, and who loosen the citizen criteria and whow loose did it became ?.

        I am all ‘ears’..

        Reply
      • 81. I hate N'Sync  |  April 21, 2012 at 1:59 am

        Right, I forgot your left is not necessarily my left.

        Bear with me, this is gonna be a bit long. You can skip everything after the —- if you like. That is only for those with an interest in historical accounts.

        We must first start in 1945 with the Malayan Union. The jus soli principle was a contentious issue and when the Federation of Malaya was formed in 1948 (the working committee has no non-Malays, only 4 royals, 2 UMNO and 6 British officers), the citizenship clause was consideranly tightened. But Onn Jaafar emerged as a convert from the episode as he was convinced that the non-Malays are needed in the future of the country.

        What happened then? the Emergency happened. Between 1948 to 1960, a guerilla war was happening because of a host of long simmering issues and problems, but largely stemming from divergent paths (armed struggle vs. peaceful negotiations) towards Independence.

        Many people blamed Tunku for loosening the citizenship and/or nationality criterion which enabled the permanent presence of non-Malays. The fact was that the British, during the height of the Emergency, amended the law which increased Chinese citizenship from 15% to 55%. (See my excerpts below on the 1952 Amendment Bill). This was based largely on the Communities Liaison Committee (CLC) recommendations in 1950, in which Onn Jaafar was part of. He got it through the UMNO Assembly by threatening to resign from it.

        By the time Onn Jaafar left the scene and Tunku picked up the pieces, the circumstances and reality on the ground was much different. He has to be realistic. Carnell (1952) stated that “The Malays have made concessions to the non-Malays in 1952 which they were not prepared even to discuss in 1946”, but I think this is a concession made on their behalf by the colonialists, and under extraordinary circumstances (the Emergency) to boot. That is why the Malays never really accepted the non-Malays. Neither Onn Jaafar nor Tunku had much choice, and the latter particularly felt it is a compact worth entering into, since the special position of the Malays, the role of the Malay kings and national language were part of the bargain. Was he ultimately responsible? Of course, him being the boss, the buck has to stop somewhere. However, by 1954, the so called social contract was accepted via the communal leaders, as endorsed through the first Federal elections. Tunku’s success lies in a multiracial alliance, not multiracial fusion. In a way, you can say that Tunku’s more racist realities was closer to the people’s sentiments than Onn Jaafar’s idealistic early position.

        Onn Jaafar left UMNO in 1951 bringing with him the belief that the liberalisation of citizenship requirements will win him broad-based appeal and support. Indeed, in the beginning, the British was set to lend continued support to IMP, and Onn Jaafar was retained as the Home Minister in the Executive Council of the Federal Legislative Council in 1953, while the Alliance was represented by 2 members, Ismail (nominated by Tunku) and HS Lee. EEC Thuraisingham, ex-chairman of the CLC and Lee Tiang King, a leader of the Penang Secession Movement, completed the EC.

        IMP was still the preferred multiracial platform, and Tunku just took over a very divided UMNO in 1951. Up till early 1952, Tan CL still felt torn between IMP and UMNO, leaving the MCA branches the right to work with either. A lot of people thought the local elections in 1951 sealed the UMNO-MCA alliance. But the truth was much more complicated. Tan CL needed to know (and be convinced) if Tunku can accept the jus soli position, and sounded out HS Lee on the matter. Things would change in 1953 when the UMNO-MCA alliance became formal all the way to the highest level. Onn Jaafar had been so bittered by the experience that he went head first in the opposite direction to form Parti Negara in 1954, and lost MIC to the alliance.

        By the time of the 1955 federal elections, the alliance’s formula of elite bargaining system by race was much more popular than a all encompassing / non-racial party platform. This is still true to this when Pakatan Rakyat’s success is founded on a similar basis, even if none of the trio are technically race-based parties. It must be pointed out that they were 1,280,000 registered voters at that time and only 180,000 were Chinese. I quote Ooi (2006) “Why the issue of citizenship was such a controversial matter was borne out of the fact that Malays, comprising only half the actual population of the federation, made up 84 percent of the electorate)” p. 70.

        ———————————————————–

        I quote a written paper in 1952 on Malayan Citizenship Legislation by Carnell, FG, who described the 1952 amendment of citizenship law of 1948 as an “oddity”.

        “The Federation owes its citizenship law to its UNIQUE DISUNITY. Lacking the common culture of those British African colonial territories, which in the post-war years have so quickly achieved forms of responsible government, Malaya, in a largely self-governing Asia, has found itsel stranded on the political slipway. Owing to DEEP-SEATED COMMUNAL CLEAVAGES between indigenous and immigrant peoples and the consequent lack of a common culture, Malaya’s diverse peoples and finding it extremely hard to REACH AGREEMENT ON WHAT CONSTITUTES THE MALAYAN COMMUNITY. But a serious communist insurrection during the past four years has served to emphasize the paramount need for the growth of such a community. In this situation one of the basic aims of the citizenship law is to assist in the CRYSTALLISATION of a Malayan nation. It is designed to serve a socio-political as much as a legal purpose. It is this role of a nation-building agency in a communally divided territory that makes Malayan citizenship an oddity amongst Commonwealth citizenship.

        There have been three distinct phases in the evolution of Malayan citizenship. First, the proposed Malayan Union citizenship of 1946, which was immediately rejected by the Malays as wholly prejudicial to Malay interests. Secondly, Federal citizenship, which was brought into being by the Federation of Malaya Order in Council, 1948, and which, as alleged discriminatory legislation, has been under constant attack ever since by the non-Malays. Thirdly, citizenship of the Federation of Malaya, which has been created by the Federation of Malaya Agreement (Amendment) Ordinance, 1952, and which is AS MUCH OF A COMPROMISE AS IT IS at present possible to achieve within an intractable communal situation. (p. 504-505).”

        This paper offers not only an excellent analysis of the citizenship issue, but also offers court cases related to the problem at that time. It also offers an elaborate explanation on the differences of the citizenship and nationality issue (see page 514).

        “The immediate purpose of the 1952 legislation was to define with precision those non-Malays who might be regarded as having a legal tie with the Federation. But this could not be achieved simply by transforming Federal citizenship into a Federation nationality. The Federation is a mere administrative unit and in colonial constitutional law quite unclassifiable. It is neither a colony, protectorate nor a protected state but a unique amalgam of nine protected Malay States with two British Settlements. With its ten sovereigns, there is no single focus for a common allegiance of the kind envisaged by the Malayan Union constitution. In a political structure like the Federation it would have been impossible to create a local status of ” subject or national of the Federation.” For this would imply that the subjects of one Ruler could become the subjects of every other Ruler and that the nine Rulers in a collective capacity could become the sovereigns of all the subjects of the nine States.”

        – Carnell, 1952

        We need to understand and examine that by 1948, even before the 1952 amendment, the Malays have accepted a large presence of the Chinese and Indians. I quote J. P. Ongkili (1974), of the renowned Ongkili scion from Sabah,

        “Citizenship and Nationality

        One of the developments was the attention given to the question of Malayan citizenship. Before 1946 the question never arose, plainly because there was no Malayan nation. To a considerable degree, this also vindicates the truism that Malayan nationalism was almost entirely a post-1946 development. The Malayan Union scheme had intended to confer jus soli citizenship (that is to say to all persons born in the Union or Singapore before, on or after Malayan Union Day), but Malay opposition to this provision led to the tightening up of citizenship provisions in the 1948 Federation Agreement.3 In terms of promoting nationhood, too, the federal citizenship provisions of 1948 had one major shortcoming. Citizenship, it was explained:

        . . . was not a nationality, neither could it develop into a nationality. It would not affect or impair, in any respect whatever, the status of British subjects in the Settlements or the status of subjects of Rulers in the Malay States. It is an addition to, and not a subtraction from, nationality and could be a qualification for electoral rights, for membership of Councils and for employment in Government service,
        and it could confer other privileges and impose obligations.

        Because the 1948 federal citizenship was not a nationality, it failed to instil among many non-Malays who were eligible for that citizenship the prerequisite to national integration, namely a feeling of Malayan consciousness and allegiance. It helped to delay the realization among Chinese and Indians who were qualified for federal citizenship that they had much more in common with the Malays than with their ethnic brethren in China or India after the Second World War.

        Nevertheless, the 1948 citizenship provisions did have some beneficial effects. It brought about a widening interest among the people of Malaya in the importance of citizenship per se as their country moved towards independence. It was estimated that the total number of federal citizens by operation of law and by application was 3,275,000 at the end of 1950. Of this figure, 2,500,000 were Malays, 500,000 Chinese, and 230,000 Indians. With the population of Malaya at about 5,226,500 in 1950, this meant that in less then three years after the ‘national’ unification of the Peninsula into the 1948 Federation, Malaya had citizens who numbered about sixty-three per cent of the total population. Citizenry, a very important basis of nationhood, had been founded by the 1948 Federation Agreement.

        The widening interest in citizenship led to the passage of the Federation of The widening interest in citizenship led to the passage of the Federation of Malaya (Amendment) Ordinance of 1952, which provided two methods of acquiring federal citizenship. One of these was by being a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies and born in the Settlements (Penang and Malacca) or the Federation together with certain residential qualifications. The other was that a person could become a federal citizen by first becoming a subject of one of the nine Malay rulers. These provisions were meant mainly for non-Malays, as Malays automatically were citizens of the Federation as well as subjects of the rulers in their respective states. This automatic provision for the Malays had been established and left unaltered since the days of the Malayan Union and its replacement by the 1948 Federation.

        (p. 255-256)

        As N. Barber stated: “And so from midnight on September 14, 1952, 1,200,000 Chinese or sixty per cent of the Chinese in Malaya and 180,000 Indians became Malayan citizens. Many others were able to apply for citizenship under the new law which had substantially relaxed the conditions.”

        (p. 257)

        In 1952, Tunku Abdul Rahman was just starting to warm the UMNO President seat.

        Reply
      • 82. I hate N'Sync  |  April 21, 2012 at 2:51 am

        I need to elaborate here a bit about the political left at the time, the existence of the PUTERA-AMCJA and their 10 points manifesto:

        Exposition To The Amended Draft of the New Constitution For Malayan Drawn Up by Representatives of The PUTERA and The AMCJA, Arkib Negara Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur dan rujuk juga Ramlah Adam (1994), loc cit., hlm. 193 serta Ahmad Boestamam (1972), loc cit., hlm. 128.

        Sepuluh (10) prinsip yang menjadi teras Perlembagaan Rakyat adalah seperti berikut:
        1. Singapura hendaklah disatukan dengan Malaya.
        2. Satu kerajaan pusat dan majlis-majlis negeri yang dipilih.
        3. Raja-raja Melayu akan mempunyai kuasa yang sebenar, bertanggungjawab kepada rakyat melalui Majlis Mesyuarat .
        4. Satu perlembagaan baru bagi Malaya, menyediakan keistimewaan tertentu bagi kemajuan orang Melayu dari segi politik dan ekonomi.
        5. Adat istiadat Melayu dan agama Islam dikawal sepenuhnya oleh orang Melayu melalui Majlis Khas.
        6. Kerakyatan yang serata bagi semua orang yang menganggap Tanah Melayu sebagai tempat tinggal tetap dan sanggup mencurahkan kesetiaannya tanpa berbelah bagi.
        7. Bahasa Melayu haruslah menjadi bahasa kebangsaan dan bahasa rasmi yang tunggal bagi Malaya.
        8. Pertahanan dan hal ehwal luar negari haruslah menjadi tanggungjawab bersama kerajaan Malaya dan kerajaan British.
        9. Kerakyatan Malaya haruslah dinamakan Melayu.
        10. Merah putih haruslah dimasukkan sebagai latar belakang bendera kebangsaan Malaya.

        Look at the left’s manifesto and you think about the situation at that time. Look at the equal citizenship or nationality requirements under 6 and 10. Ramlah Adam elaborate extensively on the matter of point that leaders like Onn Jaafar, Tunku and the British had to find a way to effectively counter the anti-Federation agenda.

        Truth is, most of the ideas in the Malayan Union and the PUTERA-AMCJA are accepted today. As Clutterbuck (1966) noted “The Malayan Chinese do have the vote as equal citizens; and in the 1963 elections, with a large part of the Chinese community voting for the first time, the Prime Minister, a Malay, was returned with an even greater majority than in 1959.”

        Clutterbuck had no way of knowing what will happen in 1969, but that was caused by a bitter unification proses, where losing Singapore and reassertion of Malay dominance led to the painful tragedy of May 13.

        Reply
      • 83. koteypanjang  |  April 21, 2012 at 11:14 am

        Wah lau eh, nsync,

        you you pull my ‘ears long long’ meh. Yu hisstoly mejar aa?.

        Wait long iong, i see wat yu lite. den lite my thinking lo. ;)

        Reply
  • 84. koteypanjang  |  April 18, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Helen, your fear about hudud is just about to start anew chapter i think, must read and discuss it implication to all muslim and non muslim alike.

    http://jahaberdeen.blogspot.com/2012/04/future-kedah-fatwa-cannot-be-challenged.html
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Some DAP supporters like Hua Yong & Jackson Ng remain unworried & will somehow attempt to soothe the fears away. — Helen

    Reply
    • 85. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:52 am

      Helen, WTF happened for three day unable to see any new posting, i thought your site was attack by Dapster cyber army.

      Whew , now i can get my daily blogging fix. Ah i admit, i am now a cyber junkie.
      _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

      Sepupu Penang kahwin. — Helen

      Reply
      • 86. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 12:26 pm

        Ah cakap la , i mean put notice la. gua ingat site kena jam.

        Reply
  • 87. calvinsankaran  |  April 18, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    These DAPsters trying their best to hide the fact that only UMNO stands between a modern and progressive Malaysia and a Taliban-style Malaysia. By denying PAS’ obvious ambitions and designs and even acting as apologists and gettting the Chinese even vote for them, DAPsters are leading the Chinese to the road to their own ruin.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Absolutely. Calvin. See this, http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/4/20/focus/11141369&sec=focus

    Reply
    • 88. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2012 at 10:38 am

      This is indeed a very worrying and dangerous development indeed. This is not just undemocratic but also oppressive.

      What is Pakatan’s stance on that and what say the Dear Leader the great defender of democracy ?

      And what about the freedom and democracy loving NGOs like BERSIH 3.0, Suaram, MMA, Aliran, etc on this ? Are they going to demonstrate to oppose this ?

      While Najib is busy reforming and moving forward to 21st century, PAS and Pakatan is doing a gostan to 13th century.

      I wonder if Ambiga and Pak Samad will do a Duduk Bantah at Alor Star…

      Reply
    • 89. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 12:08 pm

      now the chinese get to see how DAP handle their ‘friend’.

      Reply
      • 90. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm

        Hua Yong , a simple question. what are your view on this matter, and HOW should DAP settle it?.

        http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/4/20/focus/11141369&sec=focus

        Reply
      • 91. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 3:45 pm

        sorry ktp, i dont really understand what this issue is about, can u help to elaborate a little how this affect us, in the context of muslim and non muslim? simple one will do or with an illustration by using an example.

        Reply
      • 92. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 9:26 pm

        “In the lead up to the general election, PAS has repeatedly told Malaysians that they are now endorsing a welfare state. With this development it appears clear that many among the ranks in the party are still attached to the notion of an authoritarian Islamic state.”

        My question is, base on the above statement , how do you think DAP should deal with PAS. when PAS promise to giving up (or to keep quite) on their Hudud agenda, but is going around it via scenic route?.
        ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

        Instead of holding hands “going around it via scenic route” (brilliant description!), DAP should lead ala Caliph Umar Abdul Aziz & implement first in Pg. — Helen

        Reply
      • 93. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 10:48 pm

        ktp, if u read me long enough, u know I seldom give comment on anything related to islam, if I have to, I will ask more question before doing so.

        dap have three choices, to condemn, to support or remain silence. i personally prefer dap to condemn pas (presume what you say is correct that kedah action tentamount to islamic state agenda and would have an impact to non-muslim), however it is dap prerogative to do what they think is right, even consent to it, that said, it is also my prerogative who I should give my to during general election, is that not how democracy work? of course we can criticize dap, but don’t you think we should criticize pas more? and btw, do you agree that islamic state synonymous with authoritarian? how mca should deal with umno when mahathir proclaimed malaysia as islamic state?

        Reply
      • 94. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:36 pm

        thank you , hua yong for an honest answer and assement to the question i pose.

        i agree everyone have only one vote, and they have every right to do what ever they want with it, unless you think the smarter one should have more than one vote?( don’t laugh , s’pore LKY was think of something along that line some year back, the highly educated should have more vote , if i it remember correctly)

        As for whose nuts, the chinese should kick,DAP ?,the one who made the promise that they will keep PAS under leash. Or PAS, who’s promise to giving up (or to keep quite) on their Hudud agenda,i will leave it to the all malaysian voters to decide.

        Like i say before, for me either way for me also can. but for my Chinese friends like you and helen it seem , there seem to an allergic reaction when Hudud is put on the table.

        I have ask this before, can the chinese blogger here , please put your honest thought and fears on the Hudud. i will try and explaine or cut and paste the answers to your fear.

        Actually there is another solution to this phobia on Hudud……..
        become a Muslim. ( just a suggestion and not a coercion) i believed in PAS islamic struggle , but they lost me at “Kafir mengkafir ” isue along while back, and Ii am still not to keen with the “kebajikan” tag line

        well i wonder? if …………….. ah we will discuss that issue when we cross that bridge.

        Reply
      • 95. koteypanjang  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:48 pm

        ‘and btw, do you agree that islamic state synonymous with authoritarian? how mca should deal with umno when mahathir proclaimed malaysia as islamic state?”

        intersting question you pose Hua Yong. i will get on it later, got a road trip, got to drive the boss to KL tomolo,nak tido good nite.

        Reply
      • 96. HuaYong  |  April 21, 2012 at 8:24 am

        ktp, i did mentioned that I respect ….provided…….bla bla bla. if the majority (leave this to muslim what they deem as majority in this case) muslim agree to have hudud, go ahead as long as the non-muslim not affected, meanwhile unless I see clearly with an unqualified assurance that we are not affected (can this happen? pls enlighten us), I will remain against hudud. pas politicize islam along the years and everyone know they flop flop on the issue, that is why i reply to that alec we shd let pas bring the whole issue open and we see how many would support and reject.

        u r right lky have the idea that 2 votes for the educated, and I think he see that his lee family entitled to million votes since their gene is much unique compare to the rest. phobia is inevitable if religion is politicized to this extent, no?

        again on Islamic state, if I live in china tang dynasty, I would assert that dynastic is good, if I live in a 20 century us and europe, secular is the best, if I live in nabi mohammad era, theocracy is what everyone look forward, and to many chinese in china today, hey, communism is not that bad. we perceive thing base on what we encounter now, and we tend to forget the secular west affluence have much to do with colonization, don’t u think we shd see islamic state (I dun know whose version) with an open mind?

        Reply
    • 97. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm

      calvin, u put down ur comments on the premises that chinese cannot think for ourselves?

      Reply
      • 98. OverseasBumi  |  April 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm

        The chinese in malaysia (especially the DAP variety) engage in groupthink. PAS people (especially the core believers that I know in my family) also engage in the same behavior.

        Characteristics of this:

        Type I: Over-estimations of the group—its power and morality
        1.Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and encouraging risk taking.
        2.Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing members to ignore the consequences of their actions.
        Type II: Closed-mindedness
        1.Rationalizing warnings that might challenge the group’s assumptions.
        2;Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, biased, spiteful, impotent, or stupid.
        Type III: Pressures toward uniformity
        1.Self-censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group consensus.
        2.Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as agreement.
        3.Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of “disloyalty”
        4.Mind guards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information.

        I don’t deny that hardcore UMNO members also are like this, but I see evidence they are changing due to the pressures from other groups.

        Helen is helping break down the groupthink among the chinese.

        Reply
      • 99. HuaYong  |  April 20, 2012 at 9:51 pm

        ob, what on earth are you smoking? i dun know how to reply such generalisation to one that acknowledge human nature, to cut it short, it seems that those that not engage in “groupthink” is one who agree with you right? fyi, umno deed have more role to influence the Chinese who they would support.

        btw, helen is more concern of an unimaginative mind that is incapable of breaking free of it’s own hubris and socio-political conditioning to see the wider perspective in more detail, and that is why she write in bahasa melayu la.

        Reply
      • 100. OverseasBumi  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:19 pm

        Helen has said that her blog belongs to the Malay blogosphere. It is no stretch of the imagination to think that she has to adjust her writing to ensure those readers are not offended and come back to read.

        In other words, Helen, like many journos, tends to pander to their core readers and write with a slant (pardon the pun) that supports the views of a majority of readers.

        I have challenged her views on many occasions. And she has called me out a few times.

        Ask yourself this: are you mentally introspective? Do your views always stay consistent? Do you challenge your own values?

        I admit my views vacillate between going against the opposition and supporting them. It depends on the issues. I try to distance myself from the circlejerking commenters who just enjoy denouncing DAP on every occasion but forget that UMNO/PAS/PKR/MCA/MIC etc also have severe flaws.

        I have had my suspicions about the chinese way of thinking in malaysia. I hhave lived overseas for 18 years. I know in some countries they are ‘de-fanged’ politically. But, in malaysia they want more than they deserve.

        As i wrote previously, i wanted to see NEP and bumi privilege removed, but then I changed my mind seeing how DAP and their majority chinese supporters have become.

        Reply
        • 101. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2012 at 11:48 pm

          This blog is in Malay blogosphere b’cos my postings are predominantly written in BM. The comments medium up to you all lah (if you comment in BM, I’ll reply in BM, generally tho’ not invariably). This blog’s registration is also BM; see sidebar headers & this blog is ranked in WordPress amongst Malay language (not English) blogs. Simple empirical fact.

          Contrary to your assertion, my blog does not pander to the views of the majority. It is DAP which does so & that’s why DAPsters now agree for hudud to be implemented & their Hosanna-hailing women willingly tutup aurat Hasnah Yeop-style.

          Reply
      • 102. OverseasBumi  |  April 21, 2012 at 12:22 am

        This site has had an anti DAP theme for quite a while. The comments also support that. I am not complaining. But maybe for sh!ts and giggles whynotHelen write a very pro DAP entry for once..then lets see hua yong and pala richie sing your praise. It would be a cool experiment.

        Reply
      • 103. koteypanjang  |  April 21, 2012 at 8:32 am

        ya , helen DAP must have done some good in the years, let me start the ball rolling.

        1) Tan Sri Lee Lam Tye, and honest and Responsible politician. One of the few tru blue politician of the people, a problem solver of the rakyaat, who cross political boundry to help all Malaysian.

        His Bukit Bintang seat was iron clad because of his effort of more work to solve problem , rather than blame and hate game hate of DAP today. If you could find video of him in action in parliment,he could teach politican on both side on how they should behave.
        _______________________________________________________________________________________

        But LLT left DAP leh — Helen

        Reply
      • 104. HuaYong  |  April 21, 2012 at 8:37 am

        ob, i habitually reply in a tit for tat manner, so dun read me too seriously.

        what do u expect from one that all for balance of power in what u call a anti dap blog? my partiality is scotch with ice, not dap, that’s for sure.

        Reply
      • 105. pakard  |  April 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm

        Petikan dari huayong April 20,9:51pm……”helen is more concern of an unimaginative mind that is incapable of breaking free of it’s own hubris and socio-political conditioning to see the wider perspective in more detail, and that is why she write in bahasa melayu la”
        See.., now huayong is Helen’s PA, elected or appointed? or just a very imaginative thinker that is proud to write on behalf of others too.
        I try to imagine the linkage of bahasa Melayu and the character being descriped. Cannot really get you la…
        Any substance? or comparative study perhaps? or just an imaginative pop-up?
        No, I will never ever call anyone stupid, arrogant selfcentered idiot that think they are the best, always wanting for more to themselves and just lie and cheat in one go with no trustworthty, thinking imaginatively that others are just so unimaginative to realize…
        I read and write bahasa Melayu here and elsewhere…..(Maafkan Pak Ard, dik Helen.)

        Reply
      • 106. pakard  |  April 21, 2012 at 2:00 pm

        Sori dik Helen, just delete one, i tought the first missing in the air so wrote another…same content and intend actually…

        Reply
  • 107. shamshul anuar  |  April 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Bill,

    Actually it is TRUE. PAS is Ajaran sesat. MB trengganu is just being point blank to the face. He has guts to criticize PAS that behaves it has monopoly over islam.

    PAS uses Islam for political gain.

    Reply
  • 108. shamshul anuar  |  April 20, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    calvin,

    Many people( esp non malays) do not realize how moderate UMNO is. Despite its flaw( which party does not have), its still insist on inclusion of all races in Govt.

    For decades, UMNO had been condemned for its alliance with non Muslim. This was a time where PAS will judge UMNO as sinful for its inclusion of non malays in politics or standing to the fact that Malays can vote for non Malay politicians.

    Reply
  • 109. pakard  |  April 21, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Salam Dik Helen,
    Pak Ard tertanya-tanya apa nak jadi dengan “Konsensus bebas” ? Mereka menang atas tiket parti pembangkang semasa PRU lepas dan kemudiannya keluar parti masing-masing. Untuk PRU kali ini ke mana mereka? Pandangan Pak Ard, mereka adalah pengimbang lebih baik bagi kerajaan yang memerintah. BN tentu sukar mengizinkan mereka bertanding satu lawan satu dengan PR. Kenapa mereka tidak menyertai mana-mana parti komponen BN pula agak mudah diagak. Pernah ada ura-ura membuka keahlian BN tanpa menyertai mana-mana parti komponen. Rasanya inilah masa sesuai walau agak terlambat, dan jika ini berlaku, mereka menjadi kumpulan pesaing kepada parti komponen BN terutama UMNO, MCA, MIC, Gerakan yang seterusnya memaksa parti-parti ini berubah.
    Ramai akan menyertai kumpulan ini, mereka yang berbakat tetapi kecewa dengan parti masing-masing dan mereka yang tidak diberi ruang dalam parti komponen BN oleh panglima-panglima tua akan punyai tapak baru.
    Seterusnya, Pak Ard ada rasa yang rakyat sedang perhatikan bukan kepada kemampuan atau kelebihan PR untuk memerintah tetapi kelemahan BN itu sendiri, yang kadang kala dilihat tak mahu sedar dan berubah. Jadi, penerimaan keahlian BN tanpa menyertai mana-mana parti komponen akan memberi kesan besar. Sudah tentu juga satu risiko besar kepada PM.
    Kerisauan rakyat bukan Muslim terhadap kemungkinan perlaksanaan “Negara Islam” jika UMNO bergabung dengan PAS boleh diterima. Perhitungan bahawa UMNO akan tunduk kepada desakan PAS untuk terus kekal berkuasa dan PAS kembali memperjuangkan “Negara Islam” untuk memulihkan sokongan orang Melayu ada silapnya kerana mereka akan berebut sokongan dari kumpulan yang sama. Sejarah lama akan berulang, bergabung dan berpecah semula kemudiannya. Yang lebih penting bukan hanya rakyat bukan Muslim malah masyarakat Muslim Melayu sendiri ingin tahu bagaimana “Negara Islam” itu akan dibentuk. Tidak betul jika diandaikan orang Melayu akan menyokong membuta-tuli.
    Berbalek kepada kegairahan menjelang PRU, yang diperhatikan adalah keghairahan kegiatan jalan-jalan beri wang. Ada yang mula bertanya, memang ikut bajet atau peruntukkan tambahan? Satu lagi persoalan ialah penggunaan bahasa kebangsaan dalam acara-acara tempatan oleh kerajaan yang memerintah termasuk ketuanya sekali. Apabila acara itu dihadiri oleh ramai orang Melayu maka bahasa Melayu digunakan dan terselit juga sana-sini bahasa Inggeris, tetapi apabila para hadirin terdiri dari warga bukan Melayu, bahasa Inggeris digunakan sepenuhnya. Acara temubual di stesen TV tempatan berbahasa Cina juga menggunakan bahasa Inggeris yang diterjemah ke bahasa Cina oleh pengacaranya. Dari pergaulan Pak Ard dengan rakan-rakan, mereka boleh memahami bahasa Melayu dengan baik walaupun tidak ke tahap pujangga A. Samad Said. Masyarakat bukan Melayu tentu tak setuju kalau dikatakan selain memelihara bahasa ibunda, mereka sengaja enggan menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan. Yang pasti, bukan mereka yang berucap, mereka cuma mendengar.
    Walau bagaimana pun, apa yang Pak Ard dapat rasa ialah pengundi kali ini akan melihat ketokohan peribadi calon lebih dari parti. Calon “Boleh menang” memang tepat pada masanya. Namun dapat dirasakan ianya tugas yang semakin sukar buat PM apabila pelbagai kumpulan sudah mula menghantar senarai calon pilihan masing-masing, adakah PM punyai kata putus? Pak Ard memerhati, rakyat juga memerhati, kesilapan percaturan calon-calon akan membolehkan PR menang secara tak sengaja……dan Putrajaya bertukar tangan dalam ketidaksengajaan ini….
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Tak berapa faham/jelas apa yang dikatakan Pak Ard. Maksud Pak, warga Malaysian First (sebut Cina) sengaja enggan berbahasa kebangsaan walaupun berkemampuan? — Helen

    Reply
    • 110. pakard  |  April 21, 2012 at 5:05 pm

      Bukan begitu dik Helen, maksud Pak Ard kita berkemampuan, tetapi diperlakukan seolah-olah kita tidak mampu, walaupun dikalangan kita sesama warga Malaysia, pemimpin tentu dapat lihat begitu ramai pengacara bukan Melayu yang fasih bahasa Melayu, yang bukan pengacara lagi la ramai, termasuk pemilik dan pengikut blog….kerajaan yang menyeru mendaulatkan bahasa kebangsaan pula yang tidak yakin keupayaan rakyatnya berbahasa kebangsaan. Bila bercakap kepada khalayak bukan Melayu saja terus guna bahasa Inggeris. Pusat transformasi luar bandar disingkatkan jadi RTC?…dan Pak Ard suka dengar David Teoh berbahasa kebangsaan, siap berpantun lagi….

      Reply

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