Taman Medan: Evangelistas and church crosses – the S’pore and China experience

April 20, 2015 at 6:56 am 82 comments

Does this shoplot in Taman Medan, Petaling Jaya (below) have a proper building permit to operate as a church?

Is the organization calling itself a ‘church’ one that is registered as a religious society with the registrar and not an RM2 company?

Turunkan salib

Photo by The Star

Church Taman Medan

Evangelistas running amok on social media

The Malay residents in the area who protested the cross on the church are predictably being vilified by evangelistas as a group of extremists, religious bigots and haters.

Nothing however happens in a vacuum. The Christians should reflect in what way they have contributed to the distrust and suspicion of them by Muslims (and Hindus and Buddhists) in our country.

It is not only in Malaysia that evangelistas are considered problematic, and crosses frowned upon.

Look at the latest news from China.

China crosses church

China cracking down hard on evangelical Christians

As recently as this month, crosses have been removed from at least three places of worship in the Chinese cities of Cixi (south of Shanghai), Ningbo and Lishui, The Gospel Herald reported last Friday. Photos can be viewed @ The Telegraph.

On April 16, Christian Today reported that some 400 churches in China’s Zhejiang province alone were demolished or damaged in the last year by the authorities.

The New York Times reported on March 24 that a pastor in Pingyang county, Zhejiang was sentenced to a year’s jail for the crime of “gathering crowds to disturb social order” in relation to China’s campaign to remove crosses.

The evangelistas are calling the China government “evil” and “anti-Christian”.

It is a crackdown on Chinese Christians by the Chinese authorities – hence any accusation of “racism” can be dispelled. Similarly another Chinese-dominated government, i.e. Singapore, has similarly taken stern action against its trouble-making citizens who are the Chinese evangelistas.

The Chinese running the government in China and Singapore know how to be strict with these Born Agains. The Malay government in Malaysia has been very tidak apa.

NYT China Church

In Singapore, the evangelistas are proselytizing to Muslims

The Singapore government is very much aware of the “aggressive and insensitive evangelisation” carried out by churches among the country’s Muslims.

Extract from its White Paper on the Maintenance of Religious Harmony published in 1989, below:

“In the last five years, the [Singapore] Government has received numerous complaints about aggressive and insensitive evangelisation, carried out mostly by some Protestant churches and organisations. Some religious groups have also carried out acts and practices which offend other groups.

“University students have been harassed by over-zealous Christian students. In hospitals, some doctors and medical students have tried to convert critically ill patients to Christianity on their deathbeds.

“In August 1986, officials and devote​es of a Hindu temple found posters announcing a Christian seminar pasted at the entrance of their temple. The Hindus also objected when Christian missionaries distributed pamphlets to devotees going into temples along Serangoon Road.

“Some Muslims also received extracts from an unidentified book containing inflammatory remarks. Feeling their religion threatened, the Muslims embarked on their own campaign to counter the Christian effort. Talks and sermons in mosques and Muslim gatherings harped on the danger posed by Christian evangelists.

“In 1986, ISD [Internal Security Department] called up the leaders of 11 Christian organisations which had been evangelising among Muslims, to advise them to avoid activities which could cause misunderstanding or conflict. A few ignored this advice.

(Source – https://www.singaporeunited.sg/CEP/Lists/NewsRoom/DispForm.aspx?ID=96&ContentTypeId=0x01002CDD51959E531143A170A7401EE1CA7E)

“Convert critically ill patients to Christianity on their deathbeds”

Note that even Lee Kuan Yew’s father was converted on his deathbed. The following is what the Singapore legend had to say about the episode.

Transcript of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew’s interview with Seth Mydans of New York Times & International Herald Tribune on 1 Sept 2010

Mr Lee:  “My youngest brother baptised my father as a Christian. He did not have the right to. He was a doctor and for the last weeks before my father’s life, he took my father to his house because he was a doctor and was able to keep my father comforted. I do not know if my father was fully aware when he was converted into Christianity.”

Q:  “Converted your father?”

Mr Lee:  “Yes.”

Q:  “Well this happens when you get close to the end.”

Mr Lee:  “Well, but I do not know whether my father agreed.  At that time he may have been beyond making a rational decision.  My brother assumed that he agreed and converted him.”

(Source – http://www.pmo.gov.sg/mediacentre/transcript-minister-mentor-lee-kuan-yew%E2%80%99s-interview-seth-mydans-new-york-times-iht-1)

Note also that DAP evangelistas Tony Pua and Ong Kian Ming are mission school products of Singapore secondary education.

cross

In Singapore, offensive evangelistas are jailed

To recap, the Singapore Muslims felt that their religion was under threat.

They started their own campaigns to counter “the danger posed by Christian evangelists”.

Muslims in Singapore offended by these overzealous evangelistas made police reports and caused these dangerous Christian missionaries to be thrown in jail.

Singapore’s authorities show a firm, no-nonsense approach in dealing with evangelistas.

In June 2009, the Singapore court found Ong Kian Cheong and his wife Dorothy Chan Hien Leng (photo below) guilty of sedition for distributing an objectionable Christian tract titled ‘Who is Allah?’ to Muslims recipients.

Ong and Chan were sentenced to eight weeks jail and additionally, the couple were both fired from their respective jobs.

Another one sent to jail for baiting Muslims on Islam

In August 2010, Singapore jailed Andrew Kiong Kheng Kiat two weeks for injuring the religious feelings of his Muslim neighbours. Kiong had left written cards containing blasphemy against Islam on the windscreen of cars belonging to Muslims in his condominium block.

“In Singapore, where Christianity is not native, half the faithful are converts, that is, not born into the religion”, according to an article ‘Religion: The Big Switch‘ in daily paper The Straits Times.

(Note: Hannah Yeoh was not born into Christianity but converted at the age of 19.)

HannahYeohSuperCyberbully

Hannah Yeoh = DAP SuperCyber Bully

Evangelista memang sah kaki buli

Singapore mega churches like City Harvest, which is “known for using marketing and pop culture to win over the young”, was a factor in the phenomenal growth of Christianity, the 9 Aug 2008 Straits Times article reported.

The threat to social harmony posed by evangelistas is acutely realized by Singapore. Not only is it the Muslims who are upset by these Christian zealots but Buddhists and Hindus too.

In February 2010, Singapore’s Internal Security Department called up senior evangelical pastor Rony Tan – a convert to Christianity – to compel him to apologize to Buddhists and Taoists for his offensive remarks.

The evangelistas bully adherents of all the other religions.

CityHarvestChurchSuntecStage

Crossing the line to expand Christian market share

The Singapore Buddhist Fellowship posted a note on its website noting that “over the years, it had been told about incidents where family members who convert to another religion were encouraged by their new faith leaders to damage or destroy Buddhist and Taoist artefacts at home”.

Lee Kuan Yew, when he was prime minister in the 1980s, had already spoken at length on the danger of mixing politics and religion.

In his National Day Rally address on 16 Aug 1987 (the same year as Malaysia’s Ops Lalang), Lee warned churchmen and lay preachers against using “a church or a religion and your pulpit” to belabor the government lest there be “serious repercussions”.

Warning evangelical pastors against dabbling in politics, Lee reminded that they should not harbour misconceptions of what can be achieved in Singapore by thinking to copycat American televangelist Jerry Falwell whose ‘Moral Majority’ initiative had successfully influenced President Ronald Reagan and the Republicans.

crosses

Singapore fears religious collision

In his article ‘Religious Harmony: 20 years of keeping the peace’ (The Straits Times, 24 July 2009), Zakir Hussain wrote that “the influence of American charismatic Pentecostal evangelicals has been and continues to be felt in Singapore”.

Following prime minister Lee Kuan Yew’s caution issued in his 1987 National Day speech, the Ministry of Community Development commissioned a study of religious trends which then found that religious fervour was indeed on the rise.

A year later, Lee noted that the Singapore Christians, especially the charismatics were in an “evangelical phase”. He added that this evangelism “has sometimes led to friction”. It was mentioned during Lee’s speech to a Buddhist gathering in December 1988, as recounted by Home Affairs cum Law Minister S. Jayakumar.

In 1990, Deputy Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong told Parliament that his administration feared a collision between religions or between religion and the state.

Jayakumar, the Singapore federal minister, under whose watch the country’s new law to curb religious excesses was drafted, had worried in 2009 that the foolhardy would take stability for granted because “people don’t realise how fragile racial and religious harmony is”.

Dr Kumar Ramakrishna, in his working paper for Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (Nanyang Technological University) on the challenge of religious fundamentalism in the city state, highlighted the role of the “pugnacious Christian fundamentalists”.

It’s not just the Malays in Taman Medan who are being freaked out. Elsewhere in the world too, evangelistas are viewed with suspicion and distrust.

Continues

J-Star reporter @ Taman Medan: “Who gives you the right to claim this land as Muslim land?”

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Entry filed under: Evangeliblis. Tags: , .

Si Ratu Isu salib gereja di Taman Medan: Hannah Yeoh jentik Najib

82 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Skuapdpenembakanjing  |  April 20, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Murtadkan Melayu Singapura? Apa kata Dewa Lee Kuan Yew…

    http://satuhala.blogspot.com/2011/09/murtadkan-melayu-singapura-apa-kata-lee.html?m=1

    Reply
  • 2. kuman  |  April 20, 2015 at 8:16 am

    Who controls Majlis Bandaraya Petaling Jaya (MBPJ) and who voted for PR aint Malays too.

    Reply
  • 3. The Little Amigos  |  April 20, 2015 at 8:31 am

    Terima kasih maklumat yang tuan beri. Tapi saya belum jelas pandangan tuan dalam hal ini..

    Reply
  • 4. Dandy  |  April 20, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Religion is like drugs eg marijuana, heroin, syabu, ketum, etc. The more you are hooked on it, the more hynotic and illogical and irractic a person becomes.

    Whether rich or poor, old or young, jobless or working, married or single, the effects are the same.

    China does things the Communists way. Singapore does it the Socialists way and Malaysia does it the dictatorship ways in handling their problems of religious fanatics.

    Whether the whole world finally becomes Christian or Islam or Buddhists or Taoists or Hindu or Sikhism or Bahais or whatever , it ain’t going to solve anybody’s country’s problems or your own family problems. Neither will it lead to the utopia of a happier life, better governance, good leaders, happier community or country or the world as dreamt about by most religious fanatics.

    Better use whatever time while alive to enjoy whatever is created in this world for humans to cherish and enjoy than to waste half or for some , three quarter of your lifetime pursuing a heaven or Utopia which doesn’t exists in reality but only in the mind.

    Death to every human is inevitable just like death for all the animals you eat and living things in this world.

    The most powerful drug called religion to cure humans of their fear of death is what causes it to spread.

    Finally if anyone happens to die not due to sudden death eg suicide bombs, heart attack, car accident, electric shock, drowning etc but a slow death thru disease, old age etc, wouldn’t it be conforting and nice to die surrounded by families and friends who love you for what you are as a person when you were alive.

    It must be shocking to die a slow death to be surrounded by people and strangers mumbering mumbo jumbo to send you to the next world and causing so much grief and anxiety to your own family and friends to spend all those last minutes of your living life in this world.

    Love for one another human being esp within families and not individual or community or state pursuit of self interests will be a better option to live and die for.

    So, go get a life.

    Reply
    • 5. Abdullah  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:09 pm

      In the Name of Allah Most Merciful Most Just,

      True religion is to strive to know and to love your Lord Creator and Sustainer, God on High; and to reaffirm that divine love through the love of your fellowmen – family, friends and larger community.

      A prophetic hadith relates:

      * Yahya related to me from Malik from Said ibn Abi Said al-Maqburi from Abu Shurayh al-Kabi that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should speak good or remain silent. Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should be generous towards his neighbours. Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should be generous towards his guests – to welcome him openly for a day and night, and to grant him hospitality for at least three days afterwards; anything more than that would be considered as charity (sadaqa). But it is not permissible (halal) for a guest to stay in the residence of a person such that the guest poses a burden to the host.”
      [narrated by Imam Malik in Al-Muwatta, V.49, No.22]

      * Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported that Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said, “Allah Most High has allotted you your personal character just as He has allotted you your provisions. Allah Most High gives worldly things to those whom He loves as well as those whom He does not love, but He gives religion only to those whom He loves – so he who is given religion by Allah has the love of Allah. By Allah in Whose hand is my soul, a man is not a Muslim unless his heart and tongue are submissive (to Truth), and he is not a man of faith unless his neighbour is safe from being harmed by him.” [Al-Tirmizhi, No.1292]

      Reply
    • 6. Urb  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:30 pm

      Reply
      • 7. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:45 pm

        Urb,

        Your comment is blank. Terawal tekan ‘Enter’?

        Reply
        • 8. Urb  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:50 pm

          lol. I was just going to say..’didn’t read, don’t care’ . It’s dandy, we know what it’s about anyway.

          Reply
          • 9. meh  |  April 21, 2015 at 8:22 pm

            Urb, Your comment is unnecessary. If you don’t read/don’t care why bother commenting?

            Reply
            • 10. islam1st  |  April 21, 2015 at 11:39 pm

              ‘It’s dandy, we know what it’s about anyway.’

              Setuju. Kuat menipu dia tu!

              Reply
  • 11. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 9:50 am

    You got a point there. As I mentioned a few times, there are a lot of illegal churches operating sneakily in residential areas and carry out their religious actively using music, targeting the youths especially. I am not surprised by this protest.

    Funnily, DAP which is dead set against the Sedition Act, now demands the act to be used against the protestors. And it is no surprise that the person who demanded so is no other then their uber evangelista mega star Tony Pua.

    Reply
    • 12. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm

      As long as the Sedition Act is a valid law, the act must be applied equally irrespective of any calls for its abolishment.

      Reply
  • 13. Jeremy Fidelis  |  April 20, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Wow I “love” how you connect non existent dots to support something which is against our national constitution…how do you sleep at night?

    Reply
    • 14. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 11:22 am

      Where in our Federal Constitution does it say that a church has the right to put up a cross? Especially when it has not been established that (a) it has the proper permit for its building to operate as a church, and (b) whether it is registered as a religious society or an RM2 company.

      See Subang Jaya’s Kingdom Christian Fellowship – “BHD” (incorporated company). Last I checked, the Assembly of God in Subang Jaya was registered as a company too.

      null

      As for sleeping at night, both Singapore and Malaysia rounded up church activists in Operation Spectrum (May 1987) and Operasi Lalang (Oct 1987). The governments of S’pore and M’sia considered evangelistas a threat to national security.

      Evangelistas being allowed to do as they like is causing the security top brass to lose sleep worrying that religious riots might break out.

      Reply
      • 15. The Rithmatist  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:05 pm

        Erm….does “freedom of religion” mean that churches have to get approval to put up crosses at their premises?

        Especially when the Cross is a central emblem of the Christian faith?

        If we pursue your argument to its logical conclusion, it would mean that all churches, whether they are in shop houses, industrial estates or in purpose-built buildings, have to get official approval from their local authorities before they can put up crosses.

        Does that mean, for example, that the big Catholic and Anglican churches in Malaysia are breaking the law by putting up crosses in prominent positions in and on their church premises?

        Has anyone complained about this before?

        Also, in the Singapore context, the authorities come down hard on anyone, of any religion, who they think is inciting religious hatred and strife. But note that they enforce the law fairly and impartially, with no religion given preferential treatment. Which is as it should be for a government that prides itself as being secular.

        There are many churches in Singapore – of all the major denominations. As, too, there are many mosques, temples and a couple of synagogues. And they all, by and large, get along well together, with mutual tolerance.

        Only in Malaysia, it seems, is there this toxic mix of race and religion, which is incited by bloggers who should know better.

        Reply
        • 16. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:41 pm

          re: “Erm….does ‘freedom of religion’ mean that churches have to get approval to put up crosses at their premises? Especially when the Cross is a central emblem of the Christian faith?”

          I believe churches should be allowed to display the cross just like mosques display the crescent.

          re: “If we pursue your argument to its logical conclusion, it would mean that all churches, whether they are in shop houses, industrial estates or in purpose-built buildings, have to get official approval from their local authorities before they can put up crosses.”

          Duh, you’re one confused person. First determine whether the entities operating as churches have the proper permit to utilize their premises as a religious establishment. If the building permit is in order, then by all means put up the cross.

          If the authorities okay the building as a house of worship, then (in my humble opinion, I haven’t read the fine print) this approval already incorporates permitting the symbol of the religion.

          re: “Does that mean, for example, that the big Catholic and Anglican churches in Malaysia are breaking the law by putting up crosses in prominent positions in and on their church premises?”

          The big Catholic and Anglican old churches in Malaysia are not being disturbed, are they? The ones making the news are the new ‘churches’ set up by the evangelistas in shoplots.

          re: “Has anyone complained about this before?”

          Go ahead and ask the wannabe churches if they have difficulty getting approval from the authorities.

          re: “Also, in the Singapore context, the authorities come down hard on anyone, of any religion, who they think is inciting religious hatred and strife. But note that they enforce the law fairly and impartially, with no religion given preferential treatment. Which is as it should be for a government that prides itself as being secular.”

          Correct, Singapore is scrupulously secular. Malaysia is a Muslim country on the road to becoming to an Islamic state.

          re: “There are many churches in Singapore – of all the major denominations. As, too, there are many mosques, temples and a couple of synagogues. And they all, by and large, get along well together, with mutual tolerance.”

          The Singapore government was and is worried and always cautious. Didn’t you read what the Home Minister Jayakumar said? He warned – don’t be foolhardy, harmony is fragile.

          re: “Only in Malaysia, it seems, is there this toxic mix of race and religion, which is incited by bloggers who should know better.”

          How many of the Malays in the photo above read the particular blog that you’re alluding too? This toxic mix of race and religion is fomented by the DAP’s Politics of Hate, the Dapsters’ chronic in-denial and the sneaky black propaganda of the evangelistas.

          Reply
          • 17. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 12:51 pm

            Hi helen. I think the issue is not about legality of the church. The real issue is a group of people claiming that church cross be taken down as it may potentially sway the teens religious faith. Now i give u example…. U drive on a road. Hit a car back bumper. Lo and behold, the kid is an underage with no driving license. Pray tell…. Will you kenan saman? Dun mind the kid will also get saman for driving with no license but you hit someone from behind is wrong. Why the deflect the issue that u may be right because the kid drived the car without a license

            Reply
            • 18. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:03 pm

              re: “The real issue is a group of people claiming that church cross be taken down as it may potentially sway the teens religious faith.”

              Why don’t the Muslims fear that the sight of a Buddhist swastika on a temple may potentially sway the teens’ religious faith?

              Reply
              • 19. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:06 pm

                Now i think u have the confusion here. Was the religion place setu up there a church or a buddhist temple? Enlightened me.

                Reply
                • 20. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:12 pm

                  Why did the 50-odd Taman Medan Muslims fear the cross (symbol of Christianity)?

                  How come the Muslims in Malaysia have not acted out any fear of the swastika, which is a symbol used in Buddhism?

                  Reply
                  • 21. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:19 pm

                    Well… I guess the answer is that they now see a cross in the shoplot. Not a swastika. Would it had been a swastika, if they protest, would you like to quote myanmar buddhist extremist? Why are we even discussing swastika here? You think persatuan buddhist has never had any encounter with protestors? Think hard helen…. If you think buddhist is a total peaceful religion…. U are dead set wrong. Same goes to any other religion.

                    Reply
                    • 22. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:57 pm

                      Well… I guess the answer is that they now see a cross in the shoplot. Not a swastika.

                      re: Then I guess the swastika is not put up in shoplots. Buddhists are more law-abiding. (The Taman Medan ‘church’ is operating illegally, btw.)

                      re: “Would it had been a swastika, if they protest, would you like to quote myanmar buddhist extremist?”

                      They have no reason to protest the swastika even though there are more Buddhists than Christians in peninsula Malaysia. After all, the Christians are “only 9 percent” dan itupun merangkumi pribumi Sabah & Sarawak.

                      re: “Why are we even discussing swastika here?”

                      Why do the Muslims fear the cross and not the swastika? Both religions have adherents in Malaysia. In fact, there are more Buddhists than Christians. If the Malays fear Christianity, then going by numbers they should have an even bigger fear of Buddhism. But they don’t. Why?

                      re: “You think persatuan buddhist has never had any encounter with protestors?”

                      Can provide the url link, pls? I’d like to read about it.

                      re: “Think hard helen…. If you think buddhist is a total peaceful religion…. U are dead set wrong. Same goes to any other religion.”

                      There are conflicts everywhere. In Buddhist Tibet too, against the occupying Han. But it was the churches here in Malaysia that were torched in January 2010, and not Buddhist or Hindu temples or the Sikh gurdwara. Why?

                    • 23. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:14 pm

                      Have join persatuan buddhist before and know the internal affairs. Suffice to say we do not need media coverage unnecessarily. So no link for that.. Sorry.

                      So… U say that christians are only 9%. Good… Let’s trample them now. Moronic thinking.

                      Provide links to proof of their fear since you like to ask for url links. I want proven statistics. Not another mumble jumble based on kata2 kosong.

                      ‘It was churches here that are being burnt’. And you think that is right? Cause others are not burnt? Same goes to only indians die in lock up? Where the heck do they educate a blogger like you? Judging by the way you say things, you think arsonist are law abidding citizens? I rarely say this but you are one heck of a convulated person.

                    • 24. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:27 pm

                      re: “So… U say that christians are only 9%. Good… Let’s trample them now. Moronic thinking.”

                      I’m probably not smart enough to understand. I still can’t figure out how an “only 9.2 percent” religious community can strike such fear in the heart of the 61.3 percent religious majority (Muslims). Even the Buddhists at 19.8 percent don’t come across as so fearsome.

                      It must be something in the water.

                    • 25. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm

                      Well helen. Since you admit you don’t know the reason in the post below… I might as well give you my 2 cents. Read the origin of abramahic faith. Do a bit of history research. Don’t write without head and tail of what is going on. Make a shame and fool out of yourself. You are lucky that your buddhism is not caught in crossfire wi hindu origin.

        • 26. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 1:40 pm

          Neither Helen or myself is objecting to the displaying crosses or even having churches at all. The issue is having illegal churches mushrooming in residential areas and causing religious tensions.

          Do you think in your Singapore, it is allowed to operate any places of worships without multiple licences and approvals? Do you know that in Singapore even the temple / mosque / church managements are strictly controlled ? The number and location of these places of worships are also very strictly regulated.

          In Singapore the semblance of harmony is a mirage created by the government who controls any religious discussions very, very tightly.

          I think you are being naïve if you believe in the propaganda of the PAP government of the so-called religious harmony and mutual tolerance.

          What kind of religious freedom is this when the hindus are not even allowed to conduct processions for temple festivals or play musical instruments while the Chinese are allowed do so freely ? The govt even regulates what the minorities can and cannot do in temple rituals. For Thaipusam they are not allowed to play music or even use audio recording for kavadis.

          No social or religious groupings are allowed except those ones sponsored and managed or approved by the government. The religious lecture in mosque is vetted and approved by the government and the muftis & religious heads are all selected by them too.

          This is the Singapore style of religious and ethnic freedom.

          Reply
          • 27. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:13 pm

            ‘I think you are being naïve’

            You are too kind CS, ‘dumbing down’ is the word.

            Reply
          • 28. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:26 pm

            CS, if you have information of illegal churches mushrooming please do the authority a favour. Report it and let the law takes it course. Is this Taman Medan church operates illegally?

            Reply
            • 29. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:55 pm

              I have the same problem in Penang and did report it to MPSP but they did nothing. The evangelists have been influencing the young teens with their rock and roll Christianity and even my kids were targeted.

              These evangelist churches have become much more bolder and more numerous since 2008 in Penang. I wonder why….

              Reply
              • 30. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:27 pm

                First things first. How do you know if a church is operating illegally? Whether in shoplot, industrial lot or even empty land?

                Reply
        • 31. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:21 pm

          ‘Has anyone complained about this before?’

          No one ever did, does not make it right, kan? Masa ‘tidak apa’, ‘tutup sebelah mata’, ‘bagi muka’, ‘buat-buat lepa’ mungkin sudah berakhir, brace yourself bro!

          Reply
        • 32. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:25 pm

          ‘Only in Malaysia, it seems, is there this toxic mix of race and religion’

          Only in Malaysia we have people like you and dandy. Anyway seberang tambak tambang murah je kan??

          You do have a choice don’t you?

          Remain loyal, leave or voice demands? Dear Malaysians, it is your call – See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/opinion/khoo-ying-hooi/article/remain-loyal-leave-or-voice-demands#sthash.l54ariu5.dpuf

          Reply
      • 33. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:29 pm

        re: Where in our Federal Constitution does it say that a church has the right to put up a cross?

        The FedCon is silent on that. Does it render the cross illegal?

        Reply
        • 34. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:44 pm

          See my reply to The Rithmatist.

          I said I believe churches should be allowed to display the cross.

          The issue of illegality is not the cross but the building permit and the society registration. If the entity is an RM2 company, then company laws should apply to it.

          Reply
        • 35. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:15 pm

          It says Islam is superior against the rest. It does not even recognised ‘others’ religion. What religion, it does not say, does it?

          Reply
          • 36. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:47 pm

            You have misinterpreted the FedCon. Firstly, the Fedcon allows other religions to be practiced as long as no propagation to Muslims. It does not say Islam is superior to other religions except in the context of prohibition of propagation.

            Secondly, if Islam is indeed so superior and all activities/matters must comply with Islamic principles, then why we still have lots of unislamic activities in Msia like interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos?

            Stop thinking that Islam is infallible or supreme in the context Malaysian legal system.

            Reply
            • 37. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm

              Then, how do you explain this?

              “Unfortunately, the word secular was used in the judgement, but even so, it was not to refer to the country, but rather to the institutions and its laws. In any event, the usage was rather inaccurate, and it was not supposed to be used as such. Due to certain group and political agendas, it was often quoted out of context so as to allege Malaysia is a secular state, despite the fact that not once does the word ‘secular’ appears in the Federal Constitution. Instead, attention was omitted from the declaration that ‘Islam shall be the religion of the Federation,’ while there is no such declaration for other religions. Attention was also not addressed to the various provisions with regards to the head of the religion of Islam, when there is no such provision for other religions as well. Neither was attention directed to the fact that there is provision to restrict the propagation of other religions to the Muslims; that there are provisions with regards to the jurisdiction of the state legislative bodies to enact Islamic laws including for the establishment of Shariah courts, for the enactment of offences against the precepts of Islam, for the establishment and management of Islamic institutions like Baitul Mal and wakaf, all of which are not provided for other religions. So are all these secular provisions?” – See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/what-you-think/article/wither-the-myth-of-a-secular-nation-aidil-khalid#sthash.fqq45qQt.dpuf

              “Islam ialah ugama bagi persekutuan tapi ugama-utama lain boleh diamalkan dalam aman dan damai. Islam adalah ugama utama di antara ugama-ugama lain yang dianuti di negara seperti Kristitan, Buddha, Hindu. Islam bukan setaraf dengan ugama lain. Bukan duduk berganding bahu dengan agama lain atau berdiri sama sama tegak. Ia duduk di atas, berjalan dahulu, terletak di tempat medan, dan suaranya lantang kedengaran. Islam ibarat pokok jati. Tinggi, teguh, dan terang. Jika bukan sedemikian, Islam bukanlah ugama bagi persekutuan, tetapi adalah salah satu di antara beberapa ugama yang dianuti di wilayah ini, dan setiap orang sama-sama bebas mengamalkan mana-mana ugama yang dianuti. Tiada lebih di antara satu sama lain.” – See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/what-you-think/article/wither-the-myth-of-a-secular-nation-aidil-khalid#sthash.fqq45qQt.dpuf

              Reply
              • 38. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 5:09 pm

                Thanks for the link. Trying to label Msia and the FedCon as 100% secular or 100% Islamic is an exercise in futility. Our country is more of a hybrid. Proponents of secularism will have their arguments defeated by the various ‘Islamic’ provisions in the FedCon. Similarly, proponents of Msia being an Islamic State will have their arguments negated simply because the highest law of the land is a written FedCon (not the Quran) which can be amended. Look at the practical side of things:

                1. If Islam is indeed so supreme in Msia, why we have lots of unIslamic activities legalised by the government such as buying forecast numbers, alcohol manufacturing, interest based banking, casino, disco and even the breeding of pigs?

                2. Between the FedCon and Islam, who gives whom the authority? Isn’t it clear that it is the FedCon that gives powers to Islam and not the other way round (i.e. FedCon derives its authority from Islam or Quran). If Islam is indeed so supreme, why would PAS needs to table a bill at Parliament for it to be enforced? PAS should have been able to enforce Hudud without the constitutional hurdles since 1993.

                3. No doubt Islam reigns supreme over other other religions. In fact, government must allocate resources to advance the causes of Islam like building mosques etc. Non Islamic religions are prohibited from propagating to Muslims. It does not mean that any activities/matters that contravene Islamic teachings are disallowed.

                I say that Islam is subservient/inferior to the FedCon.

                Reply
                • 39. shamshul anuar  |  April 20, 2015 at 10:35 pm

                  BNM,

                  FEderal constitution does not imply that Malaysia is a secular country. Nor it says Malaysia is a theocratic state.

                  Malaysia lies in between. Hence, the confusion.

                  The beauty of Constitution is that it caters to all races, religions. Despite being ridiculed simply because it was led by Lord Reid and not some Mufti, the Constitution I believe emphasized fairness which is the very hallmark of Islam.

                  Constitution takes into account the status quo at the most defining moment of modern Tanah Melayu which is changing of status from being a protectorate and colonies to sovereignty.

                  It embraces non citizens to its fold and clearly mention that their religions, customs, languages can be practised, learn, promoted in peace.

                  IT TOO recognises that the land was not “no man’s land” when the immigrants started to flock in in 19th century. The lands already have a systematic governance. Various treaties entered by Malay sultans and only they can enter into treaties, not some Kapitan Cina.

                  Forseeing that some clashes may take place in future, Constitution put some restrictions. In recognising the generosity of native Sultans in agreeing to offer citizenships to non Malays that includes to Kit Siang or Karpal singh, the Constitution reminds that the practice of other religions must not provoke Islam.

                  FAST FORWARD to 2015

                  Churches flourishes in Malaysia. Unlike mosques where Muslims of all creeds, races colors congregate, the other religions are more “communal” . Some churches are meant for Indians only. Meaning other races like Chinese worshippers do not attend it..

                  and Christianity is very denominational. Every denominaton has its church. Which explain why in Selangor the number of churches, temples are more than masjids, surau though Muslims is the biggest racial group.

                  Malay muslim community simply does not understand why the need for so many churches for different denominations.

                  And of course DAP like s to incite.

                  Reply
                  • 40. bnm  |  April 21, 2015 at 12:11 pm

                    SA, I agree with your points until “FAST FORWARD to 2015”

                    re: why in Selangor the number of churches, temples are more than masjids, surau though Muslims is the biggest racial group.

                    Please give stats.

                    re: Malay muslim community simply does not understand why the need for so many churches for different denominations.

                    The failure to appreciate does not mean that Christians should be disallowed from having “many churches for different denominations.” BTW, why Muslims need to understand the structure of churches?

                    Reply
            • 41. jentayu  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:37 pm

              you’re the one who has misinterpreted the fed con. the fed con itself gives power to federal and state to empower islam either through legislation (islamic council/mufti), economy (zakat/baitulmal) or education (school, madrasah). the same was not given to other religion. clearly you don’t understand Islamic principle. internet based banking unislamic? you are crazy. caliph umar during his tenure has adopted the Persian registration system for land and zakat/baitulmal cause it is the most advanced known system used during that time. is he unislamic? next what? no biotech, nano tech and god-knows-what-tech cause it was the non muslim who produced it?

              Reply
              • 42. bnm  |  April 20, 2015 at 5:39 pm

                re: the fed con itself gives power to federal and state to empower islam either through legislation (islamic council/mufti), economy (zakat/baitulmal) or education (school, madrasah). the same was not given to other religion.

                You are right. I omitted this point when I said “It does not say Islam is superior to other religions except in the context of prohibition of propagation.”

                But does it mean that just because some Muslims are offended by the sight of a cross, the church must remove it?

                I also said the following:

                If Islam is indeed so superior and all activities/matters must comply with Islamic principles, then why we still have lots of unislamic activities in Msia like interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos?

                What is your opinion?

                Reply
                • 43. shamshul anuar  |  April 20, 2015 at 10:38 pm

                  BNM,

                  Constitution does not say Islam is superior to other religions. It just follows tradition on this planet. Buddhism reigns supreme in Thailand while Christianity is the number one religion in the Philipines.

                  Constitution just accords Islam as state religion simply because it is the religion of the natives and the Sultans. It is that simple.

                  Reply
                  • 44. bnm  |  April 21, 2015 at 12:14 pm

                    re: Constitution does not say Islam is superior to other religions. It just follows tradition on this planet.

                    It does. Government is obligated to give funding to advance the causes of Islam. No such obligation to other religions. Other religions are prohibited from propagating to Muslims. There is no such restriction on Islam. Muslims are free to propagate to other religions.

                    Reply
                • 45. islam1st  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:58 am

                  And as for this, I say…

                  ‘If Islam is indeed so superior and all activities/matters must comply with Islamic principles, then why we still have lots of unislamic activities in Msia like interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos?’

                  Bersyukur dengan kemurahan hati the natives yang selalu sangat tutup sebelah mata, buat-buat bodo, bagi muka dan buat-buat lepa.

                  Reply
                  • 46. bnm  |  April 21, 2015 at 12:06 pm

                    re: Bersyukur dengan kemurahan hati the natives yang selalu sangat tutup sebelah mata, buat-buat bodo, bagi muka dan buat-buat lepa.

                    You have just belittled/undermined the Malays. Bila nak tarik balik kemurahan hati ini dengan menutup semua “interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos”?

                    Anyway, I have made my point clear. Position of Islam in Msia is subservient to FedCon. It is the latter that gives recognition to the former. Application of Islam is limited to certain areas. It does not extend to “interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos” despite these activities being haram. Simply because these are not unconstitutional.

                    Reply
                    • 47. islam1st  |  April 21, 2015 at 11:17 pm

                      I did? Really? How?

                      ‘Bila nak tarik balik kemurahan hati ini dengan menutup semua “interest based banking, alcohol industries, gambling outlets (Toto, Magnum) and casinos”?’

                      Pray harder. No-no. Do more. Sorry, I meant to say, provoke lah lagi!!!

                    • 48. bnm  |  April 22, 2015 at 8:51 am

                      re: Pray harder. No-no. Do more. Sorry, I meant to say, provoke lah lagi!!!

                      These haram activities will continue to thrive as long as they are legalised. No amount of provocation will stop them. Will the government have the political will to criminalise such activities in order to ‘menegakkan Islam’?

                    • 49. jentayu  |  April 22, 2015 at 3:32 pm

                      my question back to you : sanggup ke kalau alcohol, pusat judi dan kasino diharamkan 100%?

                      semua yang kamu katakan tu kehendak dan keperluan bangsa kamu.. sebab itu islam1st suruh bersyukur dengan kemurahan hati kerajaan dan bangsa melayu.

                      kalau demografi Malaysia ni lebih 90% melayu islam jangan mimpi nak ada benda2 ni semua. contoh macam kat brunei. tak payah la kaitkan dengan perlembagaan persekutuan pulak. yang penting bukak night club contohnya jangan bagi orang islam masuk, kena dilesen oleh pihak yang berkuasa dan ikut peraturan ketat yang ditetapkan.

                    • 50. bnm  |  April 22, 2015 at 7:08 pm

                      re: kalau demografi Malaysia ni lebih 90% melayu islam jangan mimpi nak ada benda2 ni semua.

                      Itulah jawapannya. Msia bukan macam negara Timur Tengah atau Brunei di mana undang-undang Islam adalah undang-undang tertinggi atau mempunyai penduduk Islam 90-99%. Kita kena terima hakikat ini.

                      Sebab itu, terdapat banyak aktiviti yang haram dalam Islam tetapi sah di sisi undang-undang negara. Malahan, pelaksanaan Hudud juga dihalang oleh undang-undang buatan manusia.

                      Saya rasa janggal kerana walaupun Islam adalah agama rasmi Msia, Msia membenarkan aktiviti haram dalam negara. Kalau seseorang itu beragama Islam, adakah dia akan berjudi dan minum arak?

                    • 51. Helen Ang  |  April 22, 2015 at 7:17 pm

                      re: “Msia bukan macam negara Timur Tengah atau Brunei di mana undang-undang Islam adalah undang-undang tertinggi atau mempunyai penduduk Islam 90-99%.”

                      Brunei tidak mempunyai 90-99 peratus penduduk Islam.

                      Muslim di Brunei adalah 78.8 peratus, http://www.indexmundi.com/brunei/demographics_profile.html

                    • 52. islam1st  |  April 22, 2015 at 10:14 pm

                      ‘Malahan, pelaksanaan Hudud juga dihalang oleh undang-undang buatan manusia.’

                      Siapa kata?

                      ‘Saya rasa janggal kerana walaupun Islam adalah agama rasmi Msia, Msia membenarkan aktiviti haram dalam negara.’

                      Islam, Agama Persekutuan. Religion of the Federation. Bukan official religion of the Federation. Beza macam langit dan bumi tu bnm.

                      Itulah kemurahan hati Muslims di Malaysia. BERSYUKUR BANYAK!!!

                    • 53. bnm  |  April 23, 2015 at 9:14 am

                      re: ‘Malahan, pelaksanaan Hudud juga dihalang oleh undang-undang buatan manusia.’

                      Siapa kata?

                      Bukankah hudud Kelantan semenjak 1993 telah dihalang oleh undang-undang ciptaan manusia iaitu FedCon? Sama juga dengan hudud yang hangat diperkatakan sekarang.

                      re: Bukan official religion of the Federation. Beza macam langit dan bumi tu bnm

                      Kesilapan saya. Islam adalah agama Persekutuan. Balik kepada soalan saya di bawah:

                      Kalau seseorang itu beragama Islam, adakah dia akan berjudi dan minum arak? Tentu sekali tidak. Mengapa bagi sesebuah negara yang mengatakan Islam sebagai agama Persekutuan membenarkan aktiviti sedemikian? Lain standard dipakai untuk negara dan individu?

                      re: Brunei tidak mempunyai 90-99 peratus penduduk Islam.

                      Terima kasih Helen.

          • 54. Jeff  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:27 pm

            You need glasses.

            Reply
  • 55. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Look at how this poor guy from the FMT was abused for his critical comments on DAP and Singapore. It only shows that the DAP Chinese’ “Non-Racial Meritocracy” is pure unadulterated BS!
    ———————————————————————–
    But some of you wondered if I was actually Chinese. Now, this has happened before, especially when I expressed a negative opinion of the DAP or anyone from the party, as if my race obligated me to blindly support any party.

    It made me think, “What does this have to do with my race? Does this discount me from having an opinion on Singapore and its almost dystopian society? Why does it mean that if I criticise Singapore, I must not be Chinese?”

    —————————————————————————
    But it appears that this also extends to what we think of certain countries. So what does it mean if I am accused of not being actually Chinese for criticising Singapore? Is Singapore the physical manifestation of the spirit of all Chinese people worldwide? Does this mean that certain Chinese in Malaysia identify with Singapore, and perhaps imagine that Singapore is what Malaysia could have been “if only we were allowed to have power”? Perhaps. It may even be true. However, this does not forgive Singapore its faults.

    Why is my criticising Singapore a racial matter so serious that my race has to be questioned?
    ——————————————————————————–
    http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/highlight/2015/04/20/why-is-everything-about-race/

    Reply
    • 56. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 11:06 am

      Hu hu hu, kalu Cina kutuk Singapura tu bermakna dia pengkhianat bangsa dalam kamus Dapster.

      Reply
    • 57. The Rithmatist  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:11 pm

      What is the point that you are trying to make?

      Are you saying that the Singapore government can’t be criticised?

      Or are you saying that the Singapore government shouldn’t be robustly rebutting it’s critics?

      Freedom of expression and the right of reply work both ways.

      And it hasn’t deterred foreign investments in Singapore!

      Maybe Helen isn’t au fait with the FDI numbers, competitiveness rankings etc…..

      Which is excusable, given her single-minded rantings….

      Hahaha.

      Reply
      • 58. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 12:26 pm

        re: “given her single-minded rantings”

        Don’t you have other topics of interest to browse – elsewhere – rather than still lurking in my blog and stalking my single-minded discussion on the single subject matter?

        Reply
      • 59. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 1:42 pm

        I don’t think you even read my post. Don’t make a fool of yourself by commenting without reading the post.

        Reply
        • 60. The Rithmatist  |  April 22, 2015 at 1:22 pm

          Au contraire…. I read your post. Which I think, pardon me for saying so, is a load of codswallop.

          Now face up to reality and rebut the points that I raised.

          That shouldn’t be too difficult for someone with your intellectual acumen now, should it?

          Reply
  • 61. peacecombe  |  April 20, 2015 at 10:27 am

    Good reporting!

    Reply
  • 62. Ph  |  April 20, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Who instigate these people to demo ? Usually most of us ordinary malays don’t really care .We have seen many crosses. Churches are churches. We are not affected our aqidah never shaken. Ada org nak cari pasal je tu.

    Reply
    • 63. Helen Ang  |  April 20, 2015 at 1:52 pm

      Interesting …

      “Abdullah Abu Bakar, the leader of the protest which forced the removal of a cross in front of a church in Petaling Jaya yesterday, is the elder brother of the inspector-general of police Khalid Abu Bakar.”

      http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/295808

      Reply
      • 64. calvinsankaran  |  April 20, 2015 at 2:26 pm

        It seems like DAP sees another opportunity to pit UMNO vs the Christians in this case.

        Reply
        • 65. islam1st  |  April 20, 2015 at 3:18 pm

          And pick on the IGP, lagi dan lagi!

          Reply
          • 66. Jeff  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:23 pm

            Islam1st, will you ever blame some of your fellow Muslims for anything? You are so predictable and pathetic.

            Reply
  • 67. Jeff  |  April 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    You’re a joke Helen. When will you stop kissing up to the Muslims? Why are you so afraid of them? The fact that you can defend fifty uneducated morons is such a poor reflection on you. I have certainly lost the little bit of respect that I had left for you.

    Reply
  • 68. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    Ohhhh…. Why cherry pick on singapore against christian? Singapore is against every religion. Same goes to china. U think they love buddhism during mao zhe tung? U think the recent massacre involving muslims from certain part of china is not due to their opression. Why helen? Why you want to quote from these countries? Might as well quote certain parts of the superpowers not even allowing jewish and muslim the rights to cover their aurat. These countries shud be condemned not quoted for the favor of your opinion.

    Reply
    • 69. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 1:53 pm

      (1) Lee Kuan Yew was making a speech to a Buddhist gathering in December 1988. He told the Buddhists that the evangelical Christians were causing friction.

      A year earlier in May 1987 (same year as Malaysia’s Operasi Lalang), Singapore carried out an ISA crackdown codenamed Operation Spectrum. It was Christians who were arrested. Similarly, Ops Lalang also swooped on church activists.

      (2) China is cracking down on evangelical Christianity. On the other hand, President Xi Jinping is encouraging Buddhism and Confucianism.

      Reply
      • 70. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:03 pm

        Xi jin peng also prohibit xinjiang muslims from wearing beard. French is a dog for prohibiting muslims from wearing hijab and full support for je suis charlie without any measurable remorse. Lee kuan yew is nothing compared to them. Why keep on quoting him? Why not quote these 2 superpowers with their action? Still cherry picking right?

        Reply
        • 71. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:05 pm

          There are no conflict issues pertaining to Buddhism in France as far as I’m aware.

          Reply
          • 72. LeeCK  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:17 pm

            Again… Cherry picker. So now you want to imply muslims are aggresive people that should be bullied by france? U think buddhist is the best? Look at myanmar. Buddha says there are 2 things with no limit… Space and a person’s foolhardiness…. You definitely fulfil buddha’s criteria.

            Reply
            • 73. Helen Ang  |  April 21, 2015 at 2:32 pm

              ‘Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.’

              If you think you’re making sense, well and good :)

              Reply
      • 74. October sun  |  April 22, 2015 at 12:58 am

        operation spectrum wasnt specifically targeted at Christians or specifically catholics in this case. They could have been muslims, taoists, atheists or anyone. The real reason behind their arrest was a political one and they were arrested for their political believes and not religious believes. That was the last time isd was invoked to cripple political opponents as many within the establishment started questioning the ethics. Subsequently, arrests and psychological torture were no longer in fashion but opponents were sued hefty amounts for defamation and many were eventually made bankrupt.

        Reply
      • 75. The Rithmatist  |  April 22, 2015 at 3:30 pm

        That was in 1987 and 1988.

        Fast forward to 2015 and the current situation with regard to religions in Singapore.

        The Singapore government has warned that issues of race and religion are the “fault lines” to guard against in multiracial Singapore. That’s on record.

        Reply
  • 76. Prince Nabooya  |  April 22, 2015 at 12:25 am

    To the majority – continue to forbid the migrants from practising their faith in your country. you don’t need to be tolerant of them, they must play by your rules.

    To the minority – they are taking away your right to practise what you believe in, if you don’t stand up for your rights you will lose even more of it.

    I love to see Malaysians fighting with one another, helps to keep the competition in check. Oh wait a minute, Malaysia is a developing country and we only compete with developed countries. well keep fighting, we don’t want you competing in the same league as us.

    Reply
  • 77. g  |  April 22, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    How to start wars?
    1) Invent religion/ideology
    2) Preach hate against a common enemy
    3) Rape and pillage

    Reply
  • 78. Rose  |  April 23, 2015 at 1:40 am

    thank you for posting this most interesting, enlightening and well researched article. I’m glad a non-Muslim wrote it too!

    Reply
    • 79. Edmund Kagoo  |  April 26, 2015 at 8:48 pm

      Helen Ang, where in the Federal Constitution does it say one cannot put up a cross on a Christian place of worship? S`gor CM has already stated that the cross can be put up again. The word to be used is evangelists and not evangelistas. Even in KL, permission is given for chapels to operate from office lots. It is not that they want to operate from an office lot but rather because the govt purposely does not want to provide permission for churches to be put up although there are sufficient number of parishioners. I doubt that you are a Chinese.You are even ignorant of the fact that M`sia is a secular state. Are you more the founding father or is Tunku the Father of Merdeka?

      Reply
      • 80. Helen Ang  |  April 26, 2015 at 9:16 pm

        re: “where in the Federal Constitution does it say one cannot put up a cross on a Christian place of worship?”

        Where did I ever say that I object to a church displaying the cross? What I’m saying is that it’s quite understandable why some people are wary of the symbol of Christianity because they’re suspicious of the religion itself.

        For the record, I believe it is alright for a church to put up its cross because this is what marks out the building as a church. If the premises is properly authorized to function as a place of worship, then by all means put up the cross (my opinion only; I’ve not read the fine print of the city council bylaws).

        re: “S`gor CM has already stated that the cross can be put up again.”

        Well, if Azmin Ali and Elizabeth Wong will instruct MBPJ to sort out the relevant paperwork, then the church will receive the green light to reinstall the cross.

        re: “The word to be used is evangelists and not evangelistas.”

        What’s the difference?

        re: “Even in KL, permission is given for chapels to operate from office lots. It is not that they want to operate from an office lot but rather because the govt purposely does not want to provide permission for churches to be put up although there are sufficient number of parishioners.”

        But Taman Medan is in Selangor, and Selangor is under a Pakatan government. Can you tell me why a PKR and DAP-led govt purposely refuses to permit churches to operate from a standalone building?

        re: “I doubt that you are a Chinese.”

        I’m a Vulcan from the Star Trek universe, like Mr Spock. Very logical mind.

        re: “You are even ignorant of the fact that M`sia is a secular state.”

        Where in the Federal Constitution does it say that M`sia is a secular country? Pls cite the Article number.

        re: “Are you more the founding father or is Tunku the Father of Merdeka?”

        Tunku was the first PM. Dr Mahathir and Abdullah Badawi are former PMs. Najib is our current PM. It doesn’t mean that just because these leaders have (ever) said something, then that something which they said is the law of the land.

        Rather than referring to something a prime minister said, just show us where in the law does it say that M`sia is a secular country.

        Reply
        • 81. bnm  |  April 27, 2015 at 9:09 am

          re: What I’m saying is that it’s quite understandable why some people are wary of the symbol of Christianity because they’re suspicious of the religion itself.

          Does such wariness justify the action of the protesters?

          re: just show us where in the law does it say that M`sia is a secular country.

          No such word indeed. We only need to look at the status of the FedCon and the Quran or Islamic principles. The application of Islam in Msia is subject to what the FedCon gives. FedCon is the highest law of the land, not Islamic laws. Msia is more of a hybrid.

          Reply
          • 82. Helen Ang  |  April 27, 2015 at 9:34 am

            re: “Does such wariness justify the action of the protesters?”

            I’m not a Muslim and I’m not living in Taman Medan and so the cross is not in my face.

            You’re hairsplitting.

            It’s not illegal either for a woman wearing jewellery and carrying a handbag to walk alone in a dark alley at night but would you take the risk?

            Taman Medan is a rough neighbourhood. It’s only a short distance from Kampung Medan.

            You might counter that buckling down to pressure by removing the cross is tantamount to the non-Muslims in Malaysia being held to ransom by the threat of potential mob violence.

            But then again, what’s your assessment of the security situation?

            BELOW: A victim of the Kampung Medan riot in 2001 – pix provided by Uthaya

            null

            re: “Msia is more of a hybrid.”

            Agree. We’re neither a secular nor theocratic state. But we’re sliding fast to becoming an Islamic state.

            Reply

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